:00:00. > :00:09.George Osborne tells the Germans what Britain wants from the EU.
:00:10. > :00:19.It needs to be a Europe where we are not part of that ever closer union
:00:20. > :00:25.Ever closer union is not right for us any longer.
:00:26. > :00:32.If freedom of movement is to be sustainable,
:00:33. > :00:35.then our publics must see it as freedom to move to work,
:00:36. > :00:39.rather than freedom to choose the most generous benefits.
:00:40. > :00:44.And it's that intractable issue of free movement and tax credits
:00:45. > :00:52.Can or should Britain restrict benefits going to EU migrants?
:00:53. > :00:57.And would that persuade John Redwood we can stay in the EU?
:00:58. > :01:00.another army general eventually came to power.
:01:01. > :01:04.sentenced almost 500 political opponents to death.
:01:05. > :01:07.He's visiting Britain. Should we welcome him?
:01:08. > :01:10.You can only imagine the feeling of desperation and frustration
:01:11. > :01:14.which people would feel when they see that this man,
:01:15. > :01:16.that is the cause of their suffering,
:01:17. > :01:22.is actually embraced by so-called Western democratic countries.
:01:23. > :01:29.The world's most famous interviewer answers the questions for once.
:01:30. > :01:32.Wouldn't you like to interview Hitler?
:01:33. > :01:34.Would you decline him? No, I wouldn't.
:01:35. > :01:41.combs his hair and says, "I am evil".
:01:42. > :01:43.And this is how the news should be presented.
:01:44. > :01:54.Later, have the voices of authority changed?
:01:55. > :01:58.It's been tortuously slow in coming, but we are now at last
:01:59. > :02:00.getting to see the government's EU wish list,
:02:01. > :02:03.its demands in the renegotiation of our membership.
:02:04. > :02:07.letting the Germans in on the secret.
:02:08. > :02:11.He said Britain wants to not be part of an ever closer union,
:02:12. > :02:15.and we want Europe to have less red tape and be more competititive.
:02:16. > :02:19.But his main focus was on the need to protect non-users of the euro,
:02:20. > :02:22.like Britain, from the consequences of the single currency
:02:23. > :02:31.like a banking union or further bailouts.
:02:32. > :02:35.Here is the deal for the eurozone as he sees it.
:02:36. > :02:37.You get a eurozone that works better.
:02:38. > :02:40.that eurozone decisions and costs are not imposed on us.
:02:41. > :02:45.We make sure the voice of the pound is heard when it should be.
:02:46. > :02:51.And a deal that is good for Germany too.
:02:52. > :02:55.So the broad outline of the negotiation is becoming clear.
:02:56. > :02:59.But there is one item on the wish list
:03:00. > :03:01.that the Chancellor barely mentioned today,
:03:02. > :03:05.because it has proved too sticky - migration and benefits.
:03:06. > :03:07.In particular, the Government would love
:03:08. > :03:10.to be able to tell the British people
:03:11. > :03:12.that EU migrants can no longer come here
:03:13. > :03:17.and get their wages topped up through tax credits.
:03:18. > :03:20.Tax credits look like a migration subsidy.
:03:21. > :03:22.So is there any way to sort that out?
:03:23. > :03:39.as Allegra Stratton has been finding out.
:03:40. > :03:44.It is nearly three years since the Prime Minister announced he would
:03:45. > :03:48.renegotiate Britain's relationship with Europe, and the time is nearly
:03:49. > :03:53.come to harvest whatever powers he thinks he can get back. Next week,
:03:54. > :03:58.his demands will be released, some are low hanging fruit, some berry
:03:59. > :04:02.high up, out of reach. Today the Chancellor was talking very tucked
:04:03. > :04:08.in Berlin. We want Britain to remain in a reformed European Union, but it
:04:09. > :04:13.needs to be a European Union that works better for all of the citizens
:04:14. > :04:19.of Europe and works better for Britain too. So which fruit will
:04:20. > :04:22.drop easily? The Chancellor today demand and protections for non-euro
:04:23. > :04:29.countries like Britain. That could fall into place, but others could go
:04:30. > :04:34.less well. The fruit trooping off the Lobato is, what the Government
:04:35. > :04:38.is definitely going to get, includes an opt out on ever closer union and
:04:39. > :04:43.also the liberalising of the single market, but next is the concept of a
:04:44. > :04:48.national parliament of ego, moderately hard, but they could get
:04:49. > :04:55.this. And then George Osborne's topic today, tougher still, but the
:04:56. > :05:00.hardest is what migrants should get. The most important demand from
:05:01. > :05:04.Downing Street is that any EU citizen coming to the UK should not
:05:05. > :05:09.be able to claim benefits unless he or she has lived here for four
:05:10. > :05:14.years. They made that demand, as they see and, as a more moderate
:05:15. > :05:19.request than their initial idea, which was to have numerical limits
:05:20. > :05:22.on EU migrants coming into the UK. Under pressure from Angela Merkel,
:05:23. > :05:28.the Prime Minister came up with this four year demand. The trouble is, it
:05:29. > :05:33.would discriminate against EU citizens on the base of their
:05:34. > :05:35.nationality, give a better deal to Brits, so it is illegal under EU
:05:36. > :05:38.treaties. Newsnight understands that Britain's
:05:39. > :05:41.top civil servant Jeremy Heywood has told Cabinet colleagues that they
:05:42. > :05:44.are unlikely to get back much more than a tax credit ban lasting
:05:45. > :05:46.a few weeks or months. He is supposed to see that
:05:47. > :05:49.they have three options. The first, treaty change,
:05:50. > :05:51.it is unlikely in the time frame Poland would probably reject this
:05:52. > :05:55.on welfare. parity between EU migrants
:05:56. > :06:00.and British citizens. this would go down like a bucket
:06:01. > :06:06.of cold sick. So the third option is that there
:06:07. > :06:09.would be a ban on tax credits for new EU migrants,
:06:10. > :06:26.it just wouldn't last very long. The legal experts say a residency
:06:27. > :06:29.qualification that is shorter could still be seen as indirectly
:06:30. > :06:33.discriminatory. But when you go down two months, it would be easier to
:06:34. > :06:37.get away with, I do not think the British would have to much problem
:06:38. > :06:41.trying to enact that kind of rule. But the problem is that for many
:06:42. > :06:46.people who see EU migration as a central problem to be solved, this
:06:47. > :06:50.will leave a sour taste in their mouths. If David Cameron comes back
:06:51. > :06:54.with a bang of less than a year, he is go to have a very hard time
:06:55. > :06:57.selling that to the British public, and it may lead to people voting
:06:58. > :07:06.out. The bigger question is, will Poland and Germany see the UK leave
:07:07. > :07:10.the EU on this issue of a year here or there on benefits claims? It
:07:11. > :07:13.could be challenged in the courts, but if you have strong political
:07:14. > :07:18.agreement in the EU, it will be hard for them to overrule that, and if it
:07:19. > :07:23.is enshrined in law, it should be fine. One way to lessen the chances
:07:24. > :07:26.of a legal challenge is to do it by a residency test, but some at the
:07:27. > :07:35.top of government are still braced for a battle in the courts. One
:07:36. > :07:37.source says there is some strategy in this, imagine that any welfare
:07:38. > :07:40.changes do end up being challenged in the courts, imagine it goes on
:07:41. > :07:45.until 2019. By that point, the ester of the EU may be ready to do proper
:07:46. > :07:50.treaty change, and that would be the moment when Britain would get more
:07:51. > :07:54.back on welfare. -- the rest of the EU. A dramatic reveal in ten days'
:07:55. > :07:58.time of the demand is, it is expected he will still reach for the
:07:59. > :08:01.shiniest of all, the ban on tax credits for new migrants. It is just
:08:02. > :08:04.that behind the ban on tax credits for new migrants. It is just that
:08:05. > :08:05.behind-the-scenes they are worried the policy may not stay intact.
:08:06. > :08:07.Well, the issue is a bit thorny, clearly.
:08:08. > :08:09.Asking Europe to amend cherished principles won't wash.
:08:10. > :08:11.But the PM has pressures in his own party.
:08:12. > :08:14.I'm joined by John Redwood, former cabinet minister.
:08:15. > :08:16.He's a member of Conservatives for Britain,
:08:17. > :08:20.which wants fundamental reform to the EU or else.
:08:21. > :08:23.Also with me, Jonathan Portes, former chief economist at DWP
:08:24. > :08:34.at the ESRC Britain in a Changing Europe programme.
:08:35. > :08:41.Evening, gents. First of all, is benefit tourism a significant
:08:42. > :08:44.problem? No, and in fact the European Commission asked the
:08:45. > :08:48.British Government to submit any evidence that it had that benefit
:08:49. > :08:52.tourism was a significant problem, and the British Government said,
:08:53. > :08:57.actually, we don't have any quantitative evidence. What data we
:08:58. > :09:01.actually have suggests that actually relatively few EU migrants to claim
:09:02. > :09:05.tax credits very soon after coming. It is true that a lot of you
:09:06. > :09:09.migrants do work in relatively low paid jobs and do get tax credits,
:09:10. > :09:13.but not until they have been here several years, after which they have
:09:14. > :09:18.paid in just as much as the rest of us. Do you see it as a problem? The
:09:19. > :09:23.public see it as a very big problem, and it is not just the narrow idea
:09:24. > :09:28.of out of work benefits, it is also school places, hospital capacity and
:09:29. > :09:33.so forth, which people are very worried about, and that is why the
:09:34. > :09:38.Conservatives, wisely in my view, stood on an election pledge to get
:09:39. > :09:42.migration down by a very substantial amount from over 300,000 to under
:09:43. > :09:46.100,000 per year, and to do that we think the Prime Minister is right to
:09:47. > :09:49.say in his Bloomberg speech that we need fundamental change in our
:09:50. > :09:54.relationship with the EU, because we do not see how we honour that pledge
:09:55. > :10:00.without changing the way we relate to the EU. Do you see it as a
:10:01. > :10:03.problem, or the public see it as a problem? I am not sure whether you
:10:04. > :10:08.accept the Jonathan's view that there is a perception of a problem.
:10:09. > :10:13.I think it can be a problem, the public are right to worry about it,
:10:14. > :10:15.because we're having to skew our migration in favour of Europe
:10:16. > :10:21.against the Commonwealth areas, where we perhaps have longer and
:10:22. > :10:28.stronger historical ties. Benefits in particular? Benefits are part of
:10:29. > :10:32.it, because it means that the state, other taxpayers have to subsidise
:10:33. > :10:35.people's employment in relatively low paid jobs, and they may be
:10:36. > :10:42.better for somebody who is already here. Why should we have to pay
:10:43. > :10:45.that? Will we be able to reform the laws in this renegotiation? What is
:10:46. > :10:50.your impression as to whether we can get some kind of reform? Well, I
:10:51. > :10:55.think it is likely we will be able to get some delay, but the idea that
:10:56. > :10:59.EU citizens who have come here, have been working for three years should
:11:00. > :11:03.not be able to get tax credits, whereas... Remember, there is no
:11:04. > :11:10.residency or contribution qualification for British citizens,
:11:11. > :11:16.people like you or me. So anybody who has been unemployed for five
:11:17. > :11:20.years could get tax credits either way, but EU citizens who had paid in
:11:21. > :11:23.would not, so that would be clearly discriminatory. The idea that you
:11:24. > :11:28.could have this delay of three or four years without any fairness
:11:29. > :11:32.justification, I think, is probably pushing it. Are you equally
:11:33. > :11:38.pessimistic that this is achievable in the renegotiation? Yes, I think
:11:39. > :11:42.it is very difficult, and I do not think it is sufficient. In order to
:11:43. > :11:45.meet the promises we made our migration, you have to do more than
:11:46. > :11:49.that, and what the British people want, by and large, is for the
:11:50. > :11:53.British Government to make their decisions over how many people to
:11:54. > :11:57.invite in, they should be and where they should come from, and not to
:11:58. > :12:01.discriminate just in favour of the EU, and then make sensible rules
:12:02. > :12:06.about who is entitled to what benefits. The reason that people who
:12:07. > :12:10.have been settled here get priority is because their families have paid
:12:11. > :12:13.in, they are part of our community. We do not think someone should just
:12:14. > :12:18.turn up, and the next day the neighbours should have to pay more
:12:19. > :12:22.tax. Could we change the benefits system? A lot of European countries
:12:23. > :12:25.say, you are free to change your benefit system, use national
:12:26. > :12:29.insurance records or something, and as long as you are not
:12:30. > :12:37.discriminating against the foreigner, it is fine. Of course we
:12:38. > :12:39.could, we could abolish the tax credit system tomorrow, and George
:12:40. > :12:43.Osborne is proposing to cut ?4.5 billion from the system already, so
:12:44. > :12:47.that will affect EU migrants, just as it well British citizens. The
:12:48. > :12:52.inquiry about what he is preparing to do is cutting tax credit which is
:12:53. > :12:55.not right EU migrants come here, and at the same time raising the minimum
:12:56. > :13:00.wage quite a lot, and actually, the fact that people can come here to
:13:01. > :13:05.work for the minimum wage is the reason. Paradoxically, the changes
:13:06. > :13:09.that George Osborne announced in the last Budget, raising the minimum
:13:10. > :13:14.wage and cutting tax credits, will make our system even more rather
:13:15. > :13:19.than less attractive for EU migrants. Interesting. John Redwood,
:13:20. > :13:23.it is pretty clear that if the Government got everything it is
:13:24. > :13:27.asking for, along the lines of benefits and migration, you will
:13:28. > :13:30.still want to leave? What I and a lot of my friends and colleagues
:13:31. > :13:34.want is something very simple. We think that if the British people
:13:35. > :13:39.want change, and they vote for it in an election, their government should
:13:40. > :13:42.be able to deliver it. I want to restore British democracy, and a
:13:43. > :13:49.short shopping list of annoying things is not the whole answer. I
:13:50. > :13:54.want fundamental change. So you are both on completely opposite ends of
:13:55. > :13:58.the argument, you kind of agree that what the Government is focusing on
:13:59. > :14:02.is not really the point. We just have to choose between your vision
:14:03. > :14:07.and your vision, this is an argument... I don't have a view on
:14:08. > :14:11.whether we should stay in or get out, but I agree that this is
:14:12. > :14:15.essentially, the sort of issues that John is focusing on, what is the
:14:16. > :14:20.proper relationship between the eurozone and on things like the
:14:21. > :14:23.single market and financial regulation? Those are the big
:14:24. > :14:27.question is, whether we get a deal that is in our interest is far more
:14:28. > :14:31.important than this sideshow about benefit tourism. The Chancellor did
:14:32. > :14:36.warn in his speech, quite rightly, that you cannot take their word,
:14:37. > :14:39.because he had their word not involving our money in bailouts for
:14:40. > :14:43.the euro, and then of course they went head and said he had to bail
:14:44. > :14:46.out Greece after all. It shows you need fundamental change and it has
:14:47. > :14:52.not been nailed down in treaty. We've learned tonight that
:14:53. > :14:58.the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, will offer new concessions
:14:59. > :15:00.for junior doctors tomorrow a day before they vote
:15:01. > :15:05.whether to strike over the issue. The Guardian is reporting junior
:15:06. > :15:10.doctors will be offered an 11% pay rise, but the British Medical
:15:11. > :15:14.Association says they have not been consulted and heard about the deal
:15:15. > :15:17.when journalists called them up. Our policy editor, Chris Cook,
:15:18. > :15:25.is here now. That headline implied something
:15:26. > :15:32.remarkable, that Jeremy Hunt has conjured up a big pay rise. It is
:15:33. > :15:36.completely wrong. The whole thing about this pay negotiation is pay is
:15:37. > :15:41.very complicated for doctors. They get basic pay, they get amounts
:15:42. > :15:45.depending on their specialism and the hours that they work. What has
:15:46. > :15:50.long been agreed should happen, since the last Labour government was
:15:51. > :15:55.in, was that the basic pay amount, that you get come rain or shine
:15:56. > :15:59.should go up for doctors and some other things should be cut. The
:16:00. > :16:03.Guardian seems to be saying that the deal that we will get details of
:16:04. > :16:10.tomorrow, or the proposal from the government, will include an 11% rise
:16:11. > :16:17.in that basic pay amount. But it will be offset by other stuff. That
:16:18. > :16:21.is the key thing. And from the government perspective, talking to
:16:22. > :16:25.people tonight in the Department of Health, Dell cleared that there has
:16:26. > :16:33.not been a concession. The Department of Health are baffled by
:16:34. > :16:37.the guardians take on it. I thought they had been spinning it is more
:16:38. > :16:42.generous. So the BMA, what are they saying? Well they have been in
:16:43. > :16:47.negotiation with the government, they decided not to reopen
:16:48. > :16:53.negotiations next month. They put out a statement tonight saying that
:16:54. > :16:57.without assurances on said staffing and hours there is little option but
:16:58. > :17:02.to continue with plans to ballot members. But tomorrow the government
:17:03. > :17:07.is going to put online for doctors to see, pay calculator, to see how
:17:08. > :17:15.they will do. And la lot of technical details. So you can plug
:17:16. > :17:21.in your own hours? Exactly. And they're grumpy because the BMA had
:17:22. > :17:28.put one of these up which they say is wrong. So they are keen that they
:17:29. > :17:34.should not vote to take industrial action. Is the strike inevitable at
:17:35. > :17:38.this stage? Some industrial action is. Thank you very much.
:17:39. > :17:39.The President of Egypt, Abdel Fatah al-Sisi,
:17:40. > :17:41.arrives in this country tomorrow for an official visit.
:17:42. > :17:48.He'll be meeting the PM among others.
:17:49. > :17:50.Now, if you need reminding as to Sisi is,
:17:51. > :17:53.he is the man who was head of the Egyptian army
:17:54. > :17:55.when it overthrew the elected President Mohammad Morsi in 2013.
:17:56. > :17:57.He stood in a new election last year,
:17:58. > :17:59.one where he achieved 93% of the vote.
:18:00. > :18:01.While here, he won't be getting the sort of treatment
:18:02. > :18:04.given to Chinese presidents, but he will be taken seriously,
:18:05. > :18:07.and many people think he should not be granted that dignity.
:18:08. > :18:18.Nick has been hearing from one of them.
:18:19. > :18:23.Like the millions of Egyptian youth who took part
:18:24. > :18:28.in the revolution, we wanted to see change, we wanted democracy.
:18:29. > :18:31.We wanted human rights and we wanted an end to torture, to the endless
:18:32. > :18:40.abuses of human rights that were rampant under the Mubarak regime.
:18:41. > :18:42.Sondos Asem was carried into government
:18:43. > :18:47.on the tide that swept aside Egypt's military ruler, Hosni Mubarak.
:18:48. > :18:49.She worked for the country's first elected president,
:18:50. > :18:52.the Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Morsi.
:18:53. > :19:00.Morsi is in jail, Sondos lives in the UK in exile.
:19:01. > :19:02.This is the only team she is part of now.
:19:03. > :19:09.Punishment laid down under Egypt's new ruler, President Sisi,
:19:10. > :19:13.who will be David Cameron's guest at Downing Street this week.
:19:14. > :19:19.It's a real shock to me, and to democrats in Egypt
:19:20. > :19:22.and to people who are the victims of the current military regime
:19:23. > :19:26.to see that the British Government and other Western governments
:19:27. > :19:31.that is repressing them and torturing them on a daily basis.
:19:32. > :19:35.So you can only imagine the feeling of desperation and frustration which
:19:36. > :19:40.people who are now inside prison, undergoing all these forms of
:19:41. > :19:47.torture, would feel when they see that this man, or this regime,
:19:48. > :19:50.that is the cause of the suffering is actually embraced
:19:51. > :19:54.by so-called Western democratic countries.
:19:55. > :19:59.The youngest member of Morsi's government,
:20:00. > :20:07.Sondos Asem acted as a press officer for the foreign media.
:20:08. > :20:10.A year later, Egypt's flirtation with democracy ended abruptly.
:20:11. > :20:15.And those who had supported the previous regime
:20:16. > :20:20.found themselves hunted down and jailed.
:20:21. > :20:23.You can see now that most of the liberal, the secular,
:20:24. > :20:26.the leftist and Islamist activists
:20:27. > :20:28.who were publicly involved during the revolution
:20:29. > :20:33.are now either in jail or exiled or have been killed.
:20:34. > :20:37.So I don't think Egypt now is a safe place for any democrat
:20:38. > :20:44.or for anyone who opposes the current military regime.
:20:45. > :20:49.and won a scholarship to study at Oxford University,
:20:50. > :20:56.any hope she had of returning home disappeared.
:20:57. > :21:00.I was utterly shocked by the news of this death sentence.
:21:01. > :21:07.In the same case there are 35 defendants.
:21:08. > :21:15.with a range of foreign entities to destabilise the country.
:21:16. > :21:18.So it's basically people are accused of a grand conspiracy
:21:19. > :21:25.to overthrow the regime, to destabilise Egypt.
:21:26. > :21:27.The crowds that greeted the fall of Morsi
:21:28. > :21:31.felt he behaved no better than the authoritarian regime before him.
:21:32. > :21:35.who fear General Sisi is guilty of widespread abuses
:21:36. > :21:39.and that David Cameron shouldn't have invited him.
:21:40. > :21:41.I actually regret that he's been invited.
:21:42. > :21:44.To actually put out the carpet for him, to invite him in
:21:45. > :21:50.the way that he has been invited in a way becomes celebratory for Sisi.
:21:51. > :21:52.That will be how it would be presented
:21:53. > :21:56.that he is being greeted and warmly embraced by Britain.
:21:57. > :22:04.He has thrown into prison thousands of peaceful demonstrators.
:22:05. > :22:07.He has corrupted the legal system and we have seen the passing
:22:08. > :22:11.of the death penalty on well over 1,000 people,
:22:12. > :22:14.simply because they were members of the party
:22:15. > :22:24.and for anyone who can't go back to their country, you know.
:22:25. > :22:28.I was born and raised in Egypt, it's my country, which I cherish.
:22:29. > :22:33.And it is a real shock to me to be accused of such serious charges
:22:34. > :22:38.and to be handed down a death penalty
:22:39. > :22:43.by the judiciary, by the Egyptian judiciary,
:22:44. > :22:46.and to be demonised in Egyptian media.
:22:47. > :22:50.President Morsi was tried and now faces death.
:22:51. > :23:00.Sondos Asem knows a similar fate awaits her in Sisi's Egypt.
:23:01. > :23:04.The Government brings its Investigatory Powers Bill
:23:05. > :23:08.It is the legislative attempt to define the boundary
:23:09. > :23:11.between our right to privacy and the state's right to snoop,
:23:12. > :23:15.between freedom and national security.
:23:16. > :23:20.to some extent, it depends on which danger you most fear.
:23:21. > :23:22.But is it the issue that defines our time.
:23:23. > :23:34.Something of a specialist in this area. Tory majority government,
:23:35. > :23:38.bringing this bill to parliament. What can expect the message from
:23:39. > :23:41.government has been that the most contentious issues in what is called
:23:42. > :23:47.the Snooper's Charter have been abandoned. That is partly to but not
:23:48. > :23:51.completely true. I do not think anyone should be under any illusion
:23:52. > :23:55.that under this draft Bill, the police and intelligence agencies
:23:56. > :24:00.will have access to a vast amount of our personal information. Without a
:24:01. > :24:06.warrant, there will be able to see who e-mails, you called, which
:24:07. > :24:10.websites you have looked at. If they want to go a step further, if they
:24:11. > :24:14.want to listen to your phone calls or read your e-mails, if they want
:24:15. > :24:18.more details of your web browsing history, that requires a warrant.
:24:19. > :24:25.Under the current regime that means the final from the home secretary.
:24:26. > :24:29.In practice, that sounds quite a lot without a warrant that they can
:24:30. > :24:36.search, in practice what does it mean? The normal requirements, the
:24:37. > :24:40.law will require telecoms companies in the UK to store this information
:24:41. > :24:45.for 12 months. What I understand is the Home Office wants to take this a
:24:46. > :24:48.step further, it was to be able to link all the different databases
:24:49. > :24:53.from all these different companies and that will make it easier for the
:24:54. > :24:58.police to search them. If you are a detect if this is great news it will
:24:59. > :25:02.speed up enquiries, if your privacy campaigner you are thinking, if the
:25:03. > :25:06.government not in of creating a giant new state-controlled database
:25:07. > :25:11.and they will be looking for reassurances from the Bill that
:25:12. > :25:17.there is proper oversight. And the debate starts tomorrow. More than
:25:18. > :25:22.any other interviewer, perhaps Larry King is known around the world
:25:23. > :25:28.rather than just his own country. He is famous for interviewing the same
:25:29. > :25:34.as in showbiz, politics. You steps aside in 2010 to be replaced by
:25:35. > :25:37.Piers Morgan. But he has not retired but has been making his own
:25:38. > :25:42.programmes. Including the it or not, the English language channel backed
:25:43. > :25:47.by the Russian state. He is here in the UK because here that channel are
:25:48. > :25:51.about to start showing his programmes. I took the chance to
:25:52. > :25:55.interview him this afternoon and began by asking him how American
:25:56. > :25:57.politics have changed over the decades since he first started in
:25:58. > :26:01.broadcasting. Well, in 58 years of interviewing,
:26:02. > :26:03.I've interviewed many, many politicians, moderated many
:26:04. > :26:06.debates, watched a lot of politics. At the crux of it,
:26:07. > :26:09.politics is a tough game. And we are asking people to vote
:26:10. > :26:16.for us. It is ego driven,
:26:17. > :26:19.it has always been that way. The difference now is with social
:26:20. > :26:25.media, the avenues of expression are such that the campaigns in America
:26:26. > :26:30.begin two years before the race. The public is tired
:26:31. > :26:35.of it a year before it happens. So what happens is now,
:26:36. > :26:42.you can have a Trump or And then because
:26:43. > :26:46.of the constant exposure and too Not only has politics changed over
:26:47. > :26:53.the decades in the US, obviously here and in the US,
:26:54. > :26:59.interview styles have changed, or the interviews that the politicians,
:27:00. > :27:02.the interviewers they will put You get a lot of, I suppose,
:27:03. > :27:10.hard interviews in some decades. Then the politicians went
:27:11. > :27:12.for a more chat show style. Now they seem to end up
:27:13. > :27:19.on the night comedy shows. I don't mean to boast,
:27:20. > :27:22.I thought that my style... In other words,
:27:23. > :27:29.if you ask good questions, and you elicit thoughtful answers,
:27:30. > :27:33.you learn more about the person. If I begin an interview by saying,
:27:34. > :27:37.Evan, why did you do that, That may be thrilling television,
:27:38. > :27:46.but you don't learn a lot. I learned that the more I drew back,
:27:47. > :27:50.asked good questions, listened to the answers, cared about
:27:51. > :27:55.the guest, the biggest compliment you could get, as Sinatra once said,
:27:56. > :28:02.you make the camera disappear. Because sometimes people say oh,
:28:03. > :28:04.Larry King, too softball and so on. I never understood
:28:05. > :28:06.the softball question. When I've been told that, I asked,
:28:07. > :28:09.well give me an example Do you ask good questions,
:28:10. > :28:33.do you ask shorter questions, Do you listen to the answers
:28:34. > :28:40.and do you follow up This is useful
:28:41. > :28:46.for a relative rookie compared to One of the ways in which I think
:28:47. > :28:56.people distinguish is an open question, tell me why you did this,
:28:57. > :29:00.or more closed question, did you do The problem with a did you is,
:29:01. > :29:10.all I can say is no. So in other words,
:29:11. > :29:25.I want to be a little kind of dumb. My friend Herbie said the secret
:29:26. > :29:32.of my success was being dumb. So if I ask questions like,
:29:33. > :29:42.did you go to that meeting? Did you or did you not go to that
:29:43. > :29:54.meeting is even more closed, isn't Why have you got so involved in a
:29:55. > :30:01.ridiculous personal spat with your All I try to do is when I'm asked
:30:02. > :30:10.a question, I answer honestly. And when I'm asked about
:30:11. > :30:12.Piers Morgan I say, I like him personally, I didn't
:30:13. > :30:15.like his style of broadcasting. If he is thin-skinned,
:30:16. > :30:17.he's thin-skinned. If you don't like the way I work,
:30:18. > :30:20.say it. If you like the way I work,
:30:21. > :30:22.say that. And what didn't you like
:30:23. > :30:26.about his programme? He became famous at CNN
:30:27. > :30:30.for his personal crusade What did you think about that
:30:31. > :30:37.in particular? I think the gun laws are wrong
:30:38. > :30:41.in the US. I wish the NRA didn't have
:30:42. > :30:45.as much clout as it has. I try to ask good questions
:30:46. > :30:48.of people who favour it. But I never screamed at a guest.
:30:49. > :30:51.It wasn't my style. I'm not a browbeater.
:30:52. > :30:57.It is not my style. I don't like that style, no matter
:30:58. > :31:05.who is doing that kind of style. I think no-one would have guessed
:31:06. > :31:08.Larry King was going to come back on RT,
:31:09. > :31:12.which we think of as Russia Today. They have changed the name,
:31:13. > :31:15.it is just RT. You are the all American
:31:16. > :31:19.interviewer. We do the programme for RT and we
:31:20. > :31:26.distribute by Hulu in the States. We have a wonderful arrangement
:31:27. > :31:29.with RT. They never have interfered
:31:30. > :31:35.with anything I have ever done. Have they ever said,
:31:36. > :31:37."We don't want that episode?" "We'll take that one."
:31:38. > :31:42.I've never had that happen. We have Putin criticised
:31:43. > :31:44.frequently. You've never self censored when you
:31:45. > :31:47.are making a programme, thinking, "This would be a bit awkward?"
:31:48. > :31:50.I've never done that in my life. If the audience trusts me,
:31:51. > :31:53.if you trust me to ask good questions, that I don't come with
:31:54. > :31:56.any agenda, then you can watch me in complete comfort, knowing that
:31:57. > :32:03.nobody is telling me what to ask or what to do or what not to do.
:32:04. > :32:09.So I'm happy to be on RT. One or two journalists have left,
:32:10. > :32:12.some very publicly, did you see the clip where she is reading the news
:32:13. > :32:17.and says, "We are being told what to I've heard about it,
:32:18. > :32:21.I've interviewed Putin twice, spoken to him on the phone
:32:22. > :32:26.a few times. I didn't know the story,
:32:27. > :32:29.it never happened to me, If she was told to say,
:32:30. > :32:36.I think that is wrong. I think if anybody is fired
:32:37. > :32:39.for having an opinion, that is wrong,
:32:40. > :32:41.I just don't agree with it. And you actually got on quite well
:32:42. > :32:45.with Putin, you interviewed him more than once, one of your last,
:32:46. > :32:51.latter interviews on CNN. He asked to come on, he said,
:32:52. > :32:55."You can't leave yet." He's pariah in the West
:32:56. > :32:57.at the moment. He is a pariah,
:32:58. > :33:00.but he is a good guest! What we want is a good guest, right?
:33:01. > :33:03.You want a good guest. Yeah, we have a slot for him if he
:33:04. > :33:07.is willing to come on, I'm sure. You don't want a guest,
:33:08. > :33:13."OK, maybe, I don't know," You want someone who is forceful,
:33:14. > :33:17.has an opinion, and sometimes people who are against
:33:18. > :33:22.the grain of the best interviews. If you ask me who in history
:33:23. > :33:26.would you like to interview, I'd want to interview Lincoln,
:33:27. > :33:29.I'd want to interview Christ, What made Hitler tick?
:33:30. > :33:36.Doesn't that fascinate you? We've read about this horrible man,
:33:37. > :33:45.what made him tick? Why did he like...a whole group of
:33:46. > :33:48.people just because of their faith? Don't you wonder about that?
:33:49. > :33:50.No, I... Wouldn't you like to know?
:33:51. > :33:53.Indeed. Wouldn't you
:33:54. > :33:57.like to interview Hitler? Wouldn't you like, Evan,
:33:58. > :33:59.to sit down with him? No, it's a really good
:34:00. > :34:02.and pertinent question. Think about it,
:34:03. > :34:04.would you decline him? No, I wouldn't, and I wouldn't put
:34:05. > :34:08.Putin in the category of Hitler, No, what I'm saying is, nobody
:34:09. > :34:15.nobody gets up in the morning, combs his hair and says, "I am
:34:16. > :34:20.evil, I am a terrible person, and today I'm going to do more horrible
:34:21. > :34:24.things to make people dislike me." Since they don't do that, I want to
:34:25. > :34:32.learn why people who do evil things Why do people want
:34:33. > :34:38.to conquer nations? I'm going to ask you
:34:39. > :34:43.a closed question, because I know a lot of people
:34:44. > :34:48.in the audience are sitting there saying, "He did it for the money."
:34:49. > :34:52.Did you do it? Did you sell your programme to RT
:34:53. > :34:55.for the money? I never did anything for the money.
:34:56. > :34:58.No. I never got into this business
:34:59. > :35:01.for the money. I've gone to do a show,
:35:02. > :35:10.but I haven't gone to work. You're not working now, Evan,
:35:11. > :35:12.we are sitting here talking and they pay you.
:35:13. > :35:15.Who are you kidding?! I wonder if you will outlive CNN.
:35:16. > :35:19.Outlive CNN?! they are having a difficult time,
:35:20. > :35:25.aren't they? Well, CNN is in a tough spot,
:35:26. > :35:30.because in America we have Fox News, which is all the way to the right,
:35:31. > :35:33.the Republican Party ticket, MSNBC, which is to the left,
:35:34. > :35:41.and CNN in the middle. so cnn depends on big stories, and
:35:42. > :35:48.they do a lot of documentaries. I don't know
:35:49. > :35:50.how I would programme CNN. I would go the old-fashioned way,
:35:51. > :35:53.I would hire a lot of Larry Kings. Larry King,
:35:54. > :35:56.it's been a great pleasure. My pleasure, Evan, thank you. A
:35:57. > :36:02.broadcasting legend. It was sad to wake up this morning
:36:03. > :36:06.to the news of the death of the man who was long the voice
:36:07. > :36:09.of Radio 4, Peter Donaldson. If you love Radio 4, you'll
:36:10. > :36:11.probably know his distinctive sound. He was able to be sombre
:36:12. > :36:14.or subversive or sympathetic with just a fractional change
:36:15. > :36:17.in timbre. Much loved in his years at the BBC,
:36:18. > :36:20.his passing led us to wonder so distinctive, authoritative
:36:21. > :36:25.and memorable. is Peter's fellow Radio 4 voice,
:36:26. > :36:32.Zeb Soanes. Would it have killed you to put
:36:33. > :36:36.a tie on?! Tonight we are asking have
:36:37. > :36:39.the voices of authority changed? Once upon a time it meant
:36:40. > :36:41.dinner jacketed announcers. Here is an illustrated summary
:36:42. > :36:49.of the news. It will be followed
:36:50. > :36:51.by the latest film of events The American Secretary of State
:36:52. > :36:58.Mr Dulles has said... Yeah, I'm really happy
:36:59. > :37:01.I'm on BBC Breakfast. In cycling shorts with a padded
:37:02. > :37:04.crotch and a grey singlet! # You say either
:37:05. > :37:12.and I say either... # Let's remind ourselves
:37:13. > :37:14.of our old friend and colleague, thousands of disembodied voices
:37:15. > :37:41.are invading people's homes. Currently the faces behind the
:37:42. > :37:45.voices remain unknown... Years ago, I was asked to record some
:37:46. > :37:51.announcements in case of nuclear attack. And this subsequently leaked
:37:52. > :37:59.out to the press am I was dubbed the voice of doom. And now the dead
:38:00. > :38:00.ringer himself, Jon Culshaw, I have heard he does a very plausible
:38:01. > :38:05.Jonathan Dimbleby. I think there are certain news
:38:06. > :38:08.presenters where, if the news has been particularly serious, where you
:38:09. > :38:11.almost need to hear it from them And I don't think all news
:38:12. > :38:15.presenters can achieve that. Peter Donaldson was certainly
:38:16. > :38:17.one of those. If you heard it from Peter,
:38:18. > :38:19.then you believed it. He conveyed that sense of trust
:38:20. > :38:21.and warmth. And if the world was coming to an
:38:22. > :38:25.end, you wanted Peter to tell you. And in fact, had it come to an end,
:38:26. > :38:28.Peter would have told you, because he was the voice
:38:29. > :38:39.of four minute warning. As to what people thought of me, I
:38:40. > :38:44.have never asked, and the only and prompted postcard I received was
:38:45. > :38:51.saying, what do you look like? You sound fat, 50 and balding.
:38:52. > :38:56.Newsnight as they speech expert to find out whether top people still
:38:57. > :39:03.speak good, like what I do. That is a bit unfair! My first speech as
:39:04. > :39:07.leader, I had just been elected on a huge mandate, very proud of that...
:39:08. > :39:15.I would say he comes across as humble and fairly and assuming. He
:39:16. > :39:21.is physically leaning back, and his head is tilted to one side, which
:39:22. > :39:27.makes it, in animal language, that is slightly back for the door
:39:28. > :39:33.slightly cowering. So it is not a strong, assertive position. -- it is
:39:34. > :39:38.slightly back footed. He has a scratchy sense of impatience, he
:39:39. > :39:43.will be questioned, and the more he is irritated, the more angry he will
:39:44. > :39:49.become. A very consistent attempt to paint Ukip to be something that it
:39:50. > :39:53.is not... He has got a good, resonant voice, it is connected to
:39:54. > :39:57.his diaphragm, not stuck in his throat, which is great, he knows how
:39:58. > :40:04.to use his words, giving emphasis, painting a picture, and yeah, I
:40:05. > :40:13.think he has got power as a speaker, he is landing his ideas.
:40:14. > :40:20.I am Zeb Soanes, North and, these, I am out.
:40:21. > :40:30.Just about it, a quick look at the papers, the Guardian leading on
:40:31. > :40:36.Jeremy Hunt and the junior doctors pay rise. Judges get right to veto
:40:37. > :40:39.anti-terror operations, that is the Times, building up to the
:40:40. > :40:43.Investigatory Powers Bill tomorrow. The Telegraph on a similar story,
:40:44. > :40:49.different angle, prison officials who abuse snooping powers. The V,
:40:50. > :40:55.a change of heart over whether they should take misses Thatcher's
:40:56. > :40:57.clothing collection. The FT, HMRC want poor service poses threat to
:40:58. > :40:59.tax collection. We leave you with images just
:41:00. > :41:03.released by Nasa of our own star, filmed in ten invisible frequencies
:41:04. > :41:04.of ultraviolet, and then re-rendered
:41:05. > :41:06.into the visble spectrum to show the workings of the sun
:41:07. > :41:50.as you've never seen them before. Hello. A mild start to Wednesday,
:41:51. > :41:51.but a rather cloudy one with showery outbreaks of rain, as you can see
:41:52. > :41:52.quite