:00:07. > :00:10.On Newsnight tonight, an exclusive interview with the Indian domestic
:00:11. > :00:27.worker who claims her Saudi employer in Riyadh chopped off her arm.
:00:28. > :00:31.Tonight we are in New York, the only US state so far to have elected
:00:32. > :00:35.Could she win her party's nomination and the Presidency?
:00:36. > :00:41.We ask political commentator and author of Primary Colours Joe Klein.
:00:42. > :00:46.Is the warm welcome given to the Prime Minister of India
:00:47. > :00:49.by the government good for business, but bad for human rights,
:00:50. > :00:51.as Nahendra Modi is accused of presiding over sectarian violence?
:00:52. > :01:02.We'll hear from one of his fans, and one of his fiercest critics.
:01:03. > :01:08.Every year thousands of migrant workers travel to the Middle East,
:01:09. > :01:11.many without the knowledge of the limited rights they have as domestic
:01:12. > :01:20.employees, particularly in Saudi Arabia where according to Human
:01:21. > :01:22.Rights Watch, their 1.5 million domestic workers face abuse
:01:23. > :01:25.Tonight we begin the programme with an exclusive
:01:26. > :01:28.interview with an Indian maid who claims her employers in Saudi Arabia
:01:29. > :01:32.cut off her arm after she tried to escape from their abuse.
:01:33. > :01:35.Kastoori Moorneerathinam spent a month in a Riyadh hospital after
:01:36. > :01:42.losing her arm and finally returned to her home in Chennai on Sunday.
:01:43. > :01:44.In her first TV interview, she tells Sandya Ravishankar
:01:45. > :01:47.of the isolation and privation that she faced, and about the events
:01:48. > :02:05.Kastoori used to be the family breadwinner, her elderly husband has
:02:06. > :02:08.a long problem and has never worked. Her son suffers an industrial
:02:09. > :02:12.accident a few years ago which has prevented him from working. Earlier
:02:13. > :02:22.this year, Kastoori became desperate to find work to make ends meet.
:02:23. > :02:26.There are more to find work to make ends meet.
:02:27. > :02:33.Indians working in Saudi Arabia, including thousands of domestic
:02:34. > :02:37.workers. Agencies match workers with families, who sponsored their visas
:02:38. > :02:42.and must give consent for their employees to change jobs or leave
:02:43. > :02:46.the country. Kastoori no Arabic, was sent to a family in Riyadh, who took
:02:47. > :02:53.her pass but from her when she arrived. -- Kastoori, who spoke no
:02:54. > :03:41.Arabic. After two months in Riyadh, her
:03:42. > :03:46.employers told her one evening that they would send her to the police
:03:47. > :04:02.station where she would be imprisoned.
:04:03. > :05:06.But the driver was away from the house when she arrived.
:05:07. > :05:13.A spokesman for the Riyadh police told reporters that Kastoori, seen
:05:14. > :05:17.here in a Saudi hospital, was suffering from mental disturbances,
:05:18. > :05:21.and had severed her own arm while falling during an escape attempt.
:05:22. > :05:25.The Indian government has launches investigation into the attack and
:05:26. > :05:31.has played Kastoori compensation, but she wants reparations from her
:05:32. > :05:45.former employers, who have not faced charges. -- has paid.
:05:46. > :05:51.The case has also highlighted concerns about the treatment of
:05:52. > :05:53.domestic workers in Saudi Arabia. The Indonesian government banned
:05:54. > :05:57.migration to the kingdom for domestic work in 2011, Kastoori
:05:58. > :06:22.would like the Indian government to do the same.
:06:23. > :06:28.We asked the Saudi government to comment on this case, but they
:06:29. > :06:33.declined. Last month a police spokesman disputed recount. --
:06:34. > :06:34.disputed her account. Joining me now is Aidan McQuade,
:06:35. > :06:44.the director of Is that the only extreme case you
:06:45. > :06:49.have heard of? No, the Indonesian government banned its nationals and
:06:50. > :06:52.travelling to Saudi Arabia and the Ethiopian government did the same
:06:53. > :06:58.because of such extreme cases of violence against workers in Saudi
:06:59. > :07:01.Arabia, including execution and murder, and behind these extreme
:07:02. > :07:04.cases, this is the tip of the iceberg with other sorts of physical
:07:05. > :07:09.and sexual violence which people are going through. With stories getting
:07:10. > :07:16.back to India, why do so many people keep travelling? Desperation.
:07:17. > :07:21.India, despite being an increasingly wealthy country for 600 million
:07:22. > :07:26.people, for 300 million people it is a desperately poor country and it
:07:27. > :07:29.will not get any better because they are excluded from economic benefits
:07:30. > :07:36.within India by the more powerful and more affluent of the upper caste
:07:37. > :07:43.within that society. The Saudi ambassador to Delhi has said that
:07:44. > :07:47.the case is actually... She actually fell and cut her arm and a
:07:48. > :07:54.generator. There is no way to know the truth. -- on a generator. If one
:07:55. > :08:00.was to ask the question, what is the most probable situation, Kastoori's
:08:01. > :08:05.account is more credible, especially in the context of the appalling
:08:06. > :08:09.levels of violence and reported violence which comes out of that
:08:10. > :08:17.region. The position for domestic workers in Saudi Arabia, and not
:08:18. > :08:20.just there, when they are taken to an employer, there is no way, and
:08:21. > :08:27.they are not even allowed to report abuse,, is that right? Yes, Saudi
:08:28. > :08:30.Arabia is a slave straight, I find it incredible that Britain and other
:08:31. > :08:36.parts of Europe can maintain such warm relations with that country,
:08:37. > :08:41.given the gross levels of abuse which carry on within that state.
:08:42. > :08:45.And the confiscation of passports, the physical and sexual abuse, the
:08:46. > :08:54.restrictions of movements, these are contemporary forms of slavery, and
:08:55. > :08:59.this is underpinned by a system which involves tied visas, which
:09:00. > :09:04.ties the visas to their employer. The British government, at the human
:09:05. > :09:07.rights Council recently, they called for an end to the system across the
:09:08. > :09:13.Middle East. It is unfortunate that the Home Office seems intent on
:09:14. > :09:21.maintaining a similar system within the UK for domestic workers here.
:09:22. > :09:26.There is not so much restriction within a household, one assumes, but
:09:27. > :09:31.what is the system in Britain and why is it so detrimental to some
:09:32. > :09:35.foreign domestic workers? The system is the same, you tied the Beazer to
:09:36. > :09:40.the employer within the UK, and it is clear to the domestic worker, if
:09:41. > :09:49.they leave that employment, they will be deported -- you tie the
:09:50. > :09:52.Visa. When it comes to salaries for admittance back home, this gives
:09:53. > :10:00.unscrupulously employers enormous power. Cases are reported in the UK?
:10:01. > :10:06.What kind of cases? People can go to the police eventually? There is no
:10:07. > :10:09.inspection of private households and it is very difficult for domestic
:10:10. > :10:12.workers to leave those circumstances when they have no recourse to
:10:13. > :10:18.employment elsewhere, they are so desperately poor. The situation,
:10:19. > :10:21.despite two committees at the house of parliament, saying that domestic
:10:22. > :10:25.workers should be allowed to change employers, the government seems
:10:26. > :10:32.wedded to the idea that they shouldn't. Thanks for joining us.
:10:33. > :10:34.At midnight the Public Accounts committee is going to release
:10:35. > :10:38.its report on the public money handed to Kids Company, and it will
:10:39. > :10:40.be damning about the amount of funds given to the busted charity.
:10:41. > :10:42.Today meanwhile we learned more details of
:10:43. > :10:47.the charity's largesse towards some of its clients in written testimony
:10:48. > :10:51.Newsnight talked to the charity's founder Camilla Batamnagellish.
:10:52. > :10:53.She disputed many of the claims but confirmed others.
:10:54. > :11:03.What is the latest? Camila Batmanghelidjh spoke to the
:11:04. > :11:06.programme a couple of hours ago. One of the investigations into Kids
:11:07. > :11:12.Company has been dumping an enormous amount of written testimony from
:11:13. > :11:15.former employees online. One thing we've seen again and again,
:11:16. > :11:19.employees who really feel their voices are not being heard, and who
:11:20. > :11:23.are positive about the charity, saying that the story about the
:11:24. > :11:27.financial mismanagement misses the good work that the charity did, but
:11:28. > :11:31.there is one piece of testimony which is very striking. It is
:11:32. > :11:39.anonymous, but they are a staff member. What they have said, a range
:11:40. > :11:43.of allegations, and they speak to an issue which has been running through
:11:44. > :11:48.the Kids Company story. Is Kids Company very generous to a small
:11:49. > :11:56.ground of Camila Batmanghelidjh's favourite clients? Was it taking a
:11:57. > :12:01.unusual approach and spending money that needed to be spent? Camila
:12:02. > :12:05.Batmanghelidjh says there is a kernel of truth to some of the
:12:06. > :12:11.issues, for example, this person said that postal orders were being
:12:12. > :12:17.paid out to prisoners in prison who were connected to the charity. That
:12:18. > :12:21.is a strange practice. We can have a look at this. This is what Camila
:12:22. > :12:23.Batmanghelidjh has said about this, she confirmed it happened and she
:12:24. > :12:51.said: you can say, it is the whole thing,
:12:52. > :12:54.unconventional needs or largess, that is one of the Kids Company
:12:55. > :13:05.questions, and here we have another case. A client was taken to a spa
:13:06. > :13:06.and Camila Batmanghelidjh confirms this, but she denies it was for
:13:07. > :13:33.pampering. She very briefly, did Camila
:13:34. > :13:37.Batmanghelidjh give the programme any sense of how happy she is with
:13:38. > :13:43.the way the investigation is going? Yes, she is very unhappy, and it's
:13:44. > :13:47.worth pointing at, it is not just one investigation, there are maybe
:13:48. > :13:52.five, perhaps six which are going on or just finished. She wants a judge
:13:53. > :13:55.led enquiry, a Royal commission, something like that, to look into
:13:56. > :14:01.Kids Company, she says the fundamental problem is that it was
:14:02. > :14:03.about meeting problem is that the government could not meet, and it
:14:04. > :14:09.needed something from outside the government. Thanks for joining us.
:14:10. > :14:11.According to a new poll today Hiillary Clinton is still fending
:14:12. > :14:14.off the opposition, scoring 52% among Democrats to Bernie Sanders
:14:15. > :14:18.So will she consolidate that lead in Saturday's second Democrat debate
:14:19. > :14:28.Good evening from New York, the state that elected Hillary Clinton
:14:29. > :14:31.as its senator - her first, and so far only elected legislative post.
:14:32. > :14:34.Hilary's name is ubiquitous in this campaign, but often it's
:14:35. > :14:37.To them she represents the nightmare scenario:
:14:38. > :14:41.big government, and all that is wrong and broken by Washington.
:14:42. > :14:43.To the Democrats she represents the voice of experience and the chance
:14:44. > :14:47.of breaking new ground as America's first ever female President.
:14:48. > :14:50.But has the country taken her to its heart?
:14:51. > :15:01.First, we report from the Democrats' campaign trail.
:15:02. > :15:03.The high velocity adrenaline rides in this presidential candidate race
:15:04. > :15:07.really belong to the Republican Party.
:15:08. > :15:09.This time around, the Democrats look like they have
:15:10. > :15:18.With one standout candidate, Hillary Clinton.
:15:19. > :15:20.For some voters here in South Carolina, like Karen,
:15:21. > :15:24.She probably knows more about the world than any woman or
:15:25. > :15:29.She's had enough experience to guide us.
:15:30. > :15:35.And I think it would be great to see a female as the president and she is
:15:36. > :15:38.probably the best qualified woman or man to be the US president.
:15:39. > :15:43.With a full year to go, of course, anything could happen.
:15:44. > :15:46.But as things stand, Clinton has more or less seen off her opponents.
:15:47. > :15:48.In Rock Hill, in the north of the state,
:15:49. > :15:54.For hustings which include Bernie Sanders, her closest competitor,
:15:55. > :15:58.And former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley.
:15:59. > :16:01.He told us, naturally, the race is wide open.
:16:02. > :16:06.I think after tonight it's a three horse race.
:16:07. > :16:09.This is the night when the American public actually zeroed in and saw
:16:10. > :16:18.Two of them from the rather polarised past of the party.
:16:19. > :16:21.And one of them which is actually speaking to where
:16:22. > :16:26.Vice President Joe Biden, Clinton's biggest threat,
:16:27. > :16:31.But for Hillary, perhaps, the real hurdle is her own binary brand.
:16:32. > :16:33.Adored in some places, positively toxic elsewhere.
:16:34. > :16:36.And if she makes it to the end, it will be through a firmly double
:16:37. > :16:39.glazed glass ceiling, she would be the first female
:16:40. > :16:43.Unfortunately, that's the political season we're in.
:16:44. > :16:46.Ambassador Carol Moseley Braun knows a thing or two
:16:47. > :16:53.She ran for President in 2004, an Illinois Democrat, she was
:16:54. > :16:56.the first African-American woman to be elected to the US Senate.
:16:57. > :17:00.There are people that continue to be frightened by the idea of a woman
:17:01. > :17:05.I had a conversation with a girlfriend after
:17:06. > :17:11.President Obama's election and I said I found it interesting that
:17:12. > :17:22.there is more openness to a person of colour than there is to women.
:17:23. > :17:26.And she said, that is because a person of colour is the other.
:17:27. > :17:32.You have, in your life, familiarity, and a set of attitudes about women,
:17:33. > :17:36.that you might not have about people who look different.
:17:37. > :17:41.And so we come back to the idea that it is about shaping attitudes.
:17:42. > :17:44.And that is Hillary Clinton's biggest challenge.
:17:45. > :17:46.The Hillary conundrum is a slightly odd one.
:17:47. > :17:49.People don't know quite how to view her.
:17:50. > :17:52.Her election, because of her gender, would be necessarily
:17:53. > :17:56.ground-breaking, but yet she is viewed as firmly part
:17:57. > :18:03.of the establishment, the candidate that people know almost too well.
:18:04. > :18:06.She has been a staple of public life for more than 20 years.
:18:07. > :18:11.As First Lady, as Senator, and Secretary of State before now.
:18:12. > :18:14.This time around she is running as a progressive candidate who
:18:15. > :18:19.She wants paid sick leave, expanded childcare, higher minimum wage,
:18:20. > :18:26.Ambassador Verveer was her chief of staff, part of her intimate circle
:18:27. > :18:32.at the White House, she recalls her work ethic and commitment even then.
:18:33. > :18:43.There were good days and bad days collectively, in the administration.
:18:44. > :18:45.But among us we were known as Hillary Land.
:18:46. > :18:47.Because we were very cohesive group of people, mostly women.
:18:48. > :18:50.But extremely hard-working, which was an example that she said.
:18:51. > :18:52.In those eight years, hardly anybody left her staff,
:18:53. > :18:58.and these were a group of people that could have worked anywhere.
:18:59. > :19:00.We often said, it's Friday, so two more days until Monday.
:19:01. > :19:04.People worked hard, but there was a sense of purpose
:19:05. > :19:11.For Republicans, Clinton is the storybook baddie,
:19:12. > :19:15.the snatcher of freedoms, the purveyor of big government.
:19:16. > :19:18.They invoke her name as the incarnation of broken America.
:19:19. > :19:21.They even made a Wi-Fi password for this week's presidential
:19:22. > :19:27.Yet even among the wider public there is a sense
:19:28. > :19:31.that people might look up to her, but don't necessarily warm to her.
:19:32. > :19:34.They will remember the names of the often unproven scandals
:19:35. > :19:37.which pursued her, Whitewater, Vince Foster,
:19:38. > :19:42.And even if they can't tell you really what happened or how they
:19:43. > :19:49.For me, it is more about trust with her.
:19:50. > :19:54.I can't quite say that I trust her 100%.
:19:55. > :19:57.And I don't always agree with the way that she interacts with
:19:58. > :20:00.I wish that she had a bit more public appeal
:20:01. > :20:08.As a military guy coming out of the military, I wasn't a big fan.
:20:09. > :20:12.The whole Benghazi thing, I was not a big fan of that.
:20:13. > :20:14.If it's one thing that you can't tell the country about,
:20:15. > :20:18.but you can tell your family about, it is probably pretty important
:20:19. > :20:23.I was a Marine for 12 years and I don't like someone who is going to
:20:24. > :20:27.keep secrets from us that could have saved some lives.
:20:28. > :20:28.And her challenge in the campaign circus
:20:29. > :20:32.of the next few months will be to convince people of her integrity.
:20:33. > :20:35.One of the biggest shortcomings of Hillary Clinton is seen
:20:36. > :20:41.If you look at national polls, she scores very low on those things.
:20:42. > :20:45.She is seen as incredibly capable and very experienced, but people
:20:46. > :20:53.And that has a legacy from when she was first lady in the White House.
:20:54. > :20:56.The Republicans constantly went after her and a lot
:20:57. > :21:03.Which might explain why last month she took to the politicians'
:21:04. > :21:09.entertainment weapon of choice, Saturday Night Live.
:21:10. > :21:11.It is a curious hybrid satire, poking fun at America's
:21:12. > :21:17.politicians, but inviting them inside to share the joke.
:21:18. > :21:26.The Democrats look set to hold their nerve, and the seemingly inexorable
:21:27. > :21:31.march of Hillary as candidate gives her party a strong sense of unity,
:21:32. > :21:37.And yet, and yet, the inevitability, if any one dare use that word,
:21:38. > :21:40.is also having a curiously deadening effect
:21:41. > :21:48.They may yet have the next US president in their grasp, but their
:21:49. > :21:56.challenge will be to get America excited enough to make it happen.
:21:57. > :21:59.Joe Klein is a political commentator who followed the Clinton Presidency
:22:00. > :22:08.closely, and fictionalised it in the novel Primary Colours.
:22:09. > :22:17.It is great to have you tonight. Would you say it is a shoe in, does
:22:18. > :22:23.it look all but done? It pains me to say things like that, but it
:22:24. > :22:30.probably is, unless there are other controversies, scandals, whatever,
:22:31. > :22:36.that come up. The Clintons tend to come up -- tend to have them come
:22:37. > :22:41.up! The FBI is investigating the e-mails, but the thing she has to
:22:42. > :22:44.worry about most is the Clinton foundation and the contributions
:22:45. > :22:50.from foreign countries and the speeches that Bill Clinton made
:22:51. > :22:55.while she was Secretary of State. He gave 12 speeches for more than
:22:56. > :22:59.$500,000 in the 15 years since he left the White House, nine of them
:23:00. > :23:06.were given while she was Secretary of State. You can bet that will not,
:23:07. > :23:13.now in the primaries, in the nomination fight, but in the general
:23:14. > :23:18.election next year, it will be as big as Mitt Romney had four years
:23:19. > :23:26.ago. The people that we spoke to raised two issues, trust, which you
:23:27. > :23:31.are referring to, and of a sense of warmth, that she is one of the
:23:32. > :23:39.people. Or those issues that will stick come the election? She is
:23:40. > :23:48.warmer than she comes off. I have seen her belly laugh. Others will
:23:49. > :23:54.before this is over. I think she is very cautious and often to a fault.
:23:55. > :24:01.She assumes the worst about the press and she is usually right. In
:24:02. > :24:08.American politics, warm always beats cold, with the exception of 1968,
:24:09. > :24:12.when Richard Nixon beat Humphrey. It depends on who she is running
:24:13. > :24:19.against, it always comes down to two people on a stage in the debate, and
:24:20. > :24:23.the American people try to figure out, who do you want in your kitchen
:24:24. > :24:29.for the next four years? Whoever is president will be new, there is a
:24:30. > :24:32.sense we do not understand of whether Republicans and Democrats
:24:33. > :24:39.take it in turns, whether you have to have a change at this point? The
:24:40. > :24:45.last time this came up was Al Gore and there was a change, but in 1988
:24:46. > :24:50.there was not a change. Nobody thought that George Bush was warm
:24:51. > :24:54.and fuzzy, but he was running against the coldest fish imaginable,
:24:55. > :25:00.and Atlantic salmon, Michael Dukakis. When you look at the
:25:01. > :25:05.Republican nominees and you explore what feels like a movement that we
:25:06. > :25:12.are familiar with in Europe, the UK, anti-politics, she represents all
:25:13. > :25:16.that people know, politics, Washington, the establishment, will
:25:17. > :25:27.that be an extra difficult fight this time if there is that anger of
:25:28. > :25:31.the American person? It should not be that difficult to fight, because
:25:32. > :25:37.the two most likely outsiders, Donald Trump and Ben Carson, are
:25:38. > :25:42.brutally flawed candidates. They do not know much about the world. If
:25:43. > :25:44.there is one thing you can say about Hillary Clinton, she is
:25:45. > :25:48.knowledgeable, people who watched her during the Benghazi hearing said
:25:49. > :25:53.they could not take their eyes off it. It was like watching a British
:25:54. > :26:00.mystery or something, it was compelling. I don't mean to
:26:01. > :26:06.patronise. She was so prepared, she was so calm, and so comprehensive.
:26:07. > :26:10.She could tell you everything that was going on throughout the region
:26:11. > :26:18.on the night of the Benghazi problem. When people look back over
:26:19. > :26:21.the last eight years, the Barack Obama administration that offered
:26:22. > :26:27.hope and change, do you think they will see in action and a sort of
:26:28. > :26:36.disappointment more than anything else? Do you think that will be hard
:26:37. > :26:39.for her to come onto? The reality is that we have bounced back pretty
:26:40. > :26:47.well after a tremendous economic crisis. We being the Democrats or
:26:48. > :26:50.America? America. I am homeless politically, I am neither a Democrat
:26:51. > :26:55.nor a Republican. This country has bounced back. There are programmes
:26:56. > :27:01.like universal health care, which seems to be working OK, and there
:27:02. > :27:08.are new initiatives, like the Iran nuclear treaty, the Republicans have
:27:09. > :27:12.tried very hard to bad-mouth those, but not with much success. The
:27:13. > :27:17.economy is booming, unemployment is down to 5%, on the other hand,
:27:18. > :27:24.though, and at a macro has had trouble presenting himself as a warm
:27:25. > :27:31.character Ash Mike Barack Obama. It is close to 50% approval, but he
:27:32. > :27:36.still has not got there. We are still only in November, we have a
:27:37. > :27:41.year to go. The first caucuses and primaries of Iowa and New Hampshire
:27:42. > :27:44.tend to set the pace, but do not default, some of the front runners
:27:45. > :27:47.are not even mentioned by the time you get to the conventions in
:27:48. > :27:49.August, let alone by the real election in November.
:27:50. > :27:52.There will eventually be 27 replies from EU countries to David Cameron's
:27:53. > :27:56.shopping list for EU renegotiation, a list Eurosceptics have derided
:27:57. > :28:00.as paltry, and Newsnight has a ministerial response from the French
:28:01. > :28:04.which is perhaps best described as a Gallic shrug.
:28:05. > :28:07.This on the day that the President of the European Council Donald Tusk
:28:08. > :28:10.warned that if David Cameron wants this all settled by December,
:28:11. > :28:15.Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban is here.
:28:16. > :28:18.Mark, what do the French see as the most contentious part
:28:19. > :28:31.It is important, the Government is by Justin Guess, they do not know
:28:32. > :28:37.the real shape of it, there are questions, is this a treaty change
:28:38. > :28:41.thing or not? A couple of Cameron's point eight concept to one side, the
:28:42. > :28:47.contentious ones, the language about ever closer union, and the issue,
:28:48. > :28:53.can you stop migrants coming to the UK by preventing them from getting
:28:54. > :28:55.benefits? And for how long, what is the tricky position? This is
:28:56. > :28:59.something which has hit the French quite hard, let's hear.
:29:00. > :29:01.I think it's important that there is no willingness to change
:29:02. > :29:03.the treaties, at least in the short-term.
:29:04. > :29:05.This is not something that the French Government would see
:29:06. > :29:17.There is a question of, is it legal or not, and of, is it good
:29:18. > :29:37.What about the emphasis on timing? She has got two points, the first
:29:38. > :29:43.about the migrant crisis and the strain that has put on Europe, but
:29:44. > :29:49.also the ride of Euroscepticism, nationalism, across the EU. 2009, if
:29:50. > :29:55.we look at the graphic, the countries signed up to the deal in
:29:56. > :30:00.blue and the more difficult or soft Euro-sceptic countries in Orange.
:30:01. > :30:05.Now, with a series of election victories from Greece to Portugal to
:30:06. > :30:11.Finland, David Cameron in the UK, it is a different picture. The French
:30:12. > :30:13.see these doubts, they see in their own country growing Paul Schaus for
:30:14. > :30:19.the National front, they want to get out of the Euro, they talk about
:30:20. > :30:23.suspending Schengen, they see it as a real challenge to the whole
:30:24. > :30:26.project, and for that reason, this language that Mr Cameron has put
:30:27. > :30:34.forward about getting out of any promise to effort was a union, the
:30:35. > :30:37.engine of federalism or greater integration, since it was put into
:30:38. > :30:42.the Roman treaty at the beginning of this experiment in bringing
:30:43. > :30:45.countries together, they are very nervous about that language.
:30:46. > :30:50.We do not have the details about this.
:30:51. > :30:55.If it's getting nearer to the protocol that the ones that were
:30:56. > :31:01.signed for Denmark or Ireland, this is a matter for open discussion.
:31:02. > :31:09.But if it is a complete re-questioning of the sense of the
:31:10. > :31:18.original treaties, this is probably not something we can agree on.
:31:19. > :31:22.Pretty clear there, thank you very much.
:31:23. > :31:25.In a speech to both Houses of Parliament the
:31:26. > :31:27.Indian President Narendra Modi described his three-day visit
:31:28. > :31:30.as a huge moment for our two great nations, but there's unease at
:31:31. > :31:37.An open letter from PEN International, signed
:31:38. > :31:40.by 200 writers, including Salman Rushdie, Ian McEwan and Neel
:31:41. > :31:44.Mukherjee has urged him to put the climate of intolerance in India on
:31:45. > :31:50.the agenda, in the wake of shocking incidents of sectarian violence.
:31:51. > :31:52.Has Britain finally got the attention of the leader
:31:53. > :31:56.of the fastest-growing large economy in the world?
:31:57. > :32:01.Despite being in recess, both Houses of Parliament invited
:32:02. > :32:04.him to address them, the first for an Indian leader who is in the thick
:32:05. > :32:11.In a nation connected by cellphones, digital India is transforming
:32:12. > :32:24.the interface between government and people.
:32:25. > :32:28.So, with apologies to poet TS Eliot, we will not let the shadow fall
:32:29. > :32:39.The shadow is alleged inaction while Chief Minister of Gujarat
:32:40. > :32:41.in 2002 during a plague of sectarian violence there
:32:42. > :32:46.The Red Arrows are going to be flying by, and it's not going to
:32:47. > :32:50.be red, white and blue, it's going to the colours of the Indian flag.
:32:51. > :32:53.He's going to be hosted by the Queen.
:32:54. > :32:57.What do those British Muslims, those three individuals who were
:32:58. > :33:00.burned alive in 2002 while they were on holiday, their families are going
:33:01. > :33:05.to be here soon, what do they think about that same Narendra Modi?
:33:06. > :33:08.He described what happened as like a car running over a puppy,
:33:09. > :33:15.The Indian Prime Minister said his point was that every Indian life
:33:16. > :33:20.Already on this visit business deals worth more than ?9 billion have been
:33:21. > :33:32.Well, here to discuss Narendra Modi's record in India since coming
:33:33. > :33:37.to power, we have Nishma Gosrani, a financial-services director who has
:33:38. > :33:40.been involved in the British Indian community's efforts to welcome Modi
:33:41. > :33:45.to the UK, and Aditya Chakrabortty from the Guardian.
:33:46. > :33:58.Good evening to you both. What do you think Modi has done so far,
:33:59. > :34:03.tangible for the Indian economy? The last 16 months, he has had a great
:34:04. > :34:10.vision to start with, if we look at digital India and make in India,
:34:11. > :34:14.that is a phenomenal vision. As a leader, India as a country is vast
:34:15. > :34:21.and it takes a lot of time to implement change and he is doing
:34:22. > :34:29.that. In the only way he possibly can. If we take a Swatch Park, a
:34:30. > :34:33.great campaign, he has had corporate India in Dost hygiene, sanitation,
:34:34. > :34:36.for India, and they are looking at making a promise to make sure that
:34:37. > :34:43.hygiene and sanitation changes across the country by 2019. We have
:34:44. > :34:48.these big deals, five deals done today, and so is it a balance which
:34:49. > :34:52.actually, much in the way of China, you have got to take the rough with
:34:53. > :34:57.the smooth? There are problems with India. Among those amazing deals,
:34:58. > :35:04.the export of Legoland to India, do not forget. Amazing. There is no
:35:05. > :35:08.denying, much of the rhetoric and slogans he has come out with have
:35:09. > :35:14.been attractive, let's have manufacturing in India, great, let's
:35:15. > :35:19.have more IT in India, great. If you want to look at his record, look at
:35:20. > :35:22.when he was in charge of a state for yes, and that state got richer under
:35:23. > :35:28.him, no doubt about that, but the rich got richer, and what happened,
:35:29. > :35:34.that state lags behind the rest of India and poverty reduction and
:35:35. > :35:38.literacy and malnutrition. -- on poverty reduction. He said the
:35:39. > :35:41.reason for that was that middle-class girls look at fashion
:35:42. > :35:48.magazines and they are too much into dieting. The reality and the
:35:49. > :35:53.rhetoric, and Modi is big and retro, but the reality, much as we saw with
:35:54. > :36:03.the domestic workers, life is pretty appalling for millions of Indians.
:36:04. > :36:07.-- Modi is big on rhetoric. We have to deal with him as a legitimately
:36:08. > :36:12.elected leader of the largest democracy in the world. You have
:36:13. > :36:16.spoken about the state he was in charge of, the Supreme Court of
:36:17. > :36:19.India rejected the allegations that were made against him, Britain had
:36:20. > :36:28.the opportunity to make representation. Arundhati Roy says
:36:29. > :36:33.minorities are being forced to live in terror. You are going to get
:36:34. > :36:37.protesters, we have had protesters on the streets in the last couple of
:36:38. > :36:42.days during the course of his visit, but we have got to remember in the
:36:43. > :36:46.ten years, when the opposition was in power, neither was he arrested or
:36:47. > :36:49.convicted through that process, legal proceedings took place and the
:36:50. > :36:57.Supreme Court of India rejected the allegations. Arundhati Roy has it
:36:58. > :37:02.wrong, then? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I think that
:37:03. > :37:06.different opinions are going to be apparent in a diverse country with
:37:07. > :37:11.diverse opinions, but he is, for us in Britain, a legitimately elected
:37:12. > :37:18.leader. The allegation is sectarianism. If we can bring a few
:37:19. > :37:23.facts and, by the government's own figures, religious violence is up
:37:24. > :37:28.25% in India within a year. The other thing to bear in mind, just
:37:29. > :37:32.take a step back, Modi comes from an organisation which is a Hindu
:37:33. > :37:43.paramilitary fascist organisation. It is ironic watching him next to
:37:44. > :37:47.the statue of Gandhi. The are SS has been banned three times by the
:37:48. > :37:51.Indian government, it is so extreme. What it wants to do is not create a
:37:52. > :37:56.secular superpower, it would like to create a Hindu dominated superpower.
:37:57. > :38:00.The people that will go along to Wembley, they will just be British
:38:01. > :38:06.Hindus? The vast majority will be, yes. India has the third largest
:38:07. > :38:11.Muslim population in the world and it gave the world Buddhism and it
:38:12. > :38:18.still has a significant Christian population, and yet what Modi and
:38:19. > :38:23.his allies want to do is to find out what a glorious democracy should
:38:24. > :38:30.apply, to being a Hindu superpower. -- should look like. You will be
:38:31. > :38:37.involved tomorrow. There will be Muslims at their tomorrow. --
:38:38. > :38:43.Muslims their tomorrow. Not very many. Tomorrow, politician will be
:38:44. > :38:52.addressing 60,000 people at Wembley, when have we ever have
:38:53. > :38:58.that? They have put together a show which involves the British Philemon
:38:59. > :39:03.ago August, 400 diverse organisations have come together,
:39:04. > :39:07.60,000 strong -- British Philharmonic Orchestra. The Muslim
:39:08. > :39:14.presence will be completely tokenistic. I have to disagree with
:39:15. > :39:24.that. What is it, then, the Diaspora, they seem very keen to
:39:25. > :39:27.embrace him? What is it? I think it comes back to this, Modi throughout
:39:28. > :39:33.his career has played two roles very well. The corporate chief
:39:34. > :39:39.executive, the dynamic code getting guide, but when things go wrong, he
:39:40. > :39:43.lapses into the thug who is willing to let his extremist acolytes do
:39:44. > :39:49.what they want. I disagree with that. He was elected the Chief
:39:50. > :39:54.Minister three times, and he created an economic powerhouse in his time
:39:55. > :39:59.in the western state of India, and 60,000 people are going to see him
:40:00. > :40:06.tomorrow, including 1.5 million strong British Indian dies for in
:40:07. > :40:13.this country. -- Diaspora in this country. They said he was guilty of
:40:14. > :40:17.handing over land, giving cut rate electricity and super soft loans to
:40:18. > :40:21.big corporations who then bankroll his electoral campaign. The same
:40:22. > :40:27.guys that flew him around in private jets, they were getting very sweet
:40:28. > :40:32.deals from him. The same guys, who are cleaning India for him, and
:40:33. > :40:37.created an economic powerhouse and an emerging economy where Britain
:40:38. > :40:42.needs to be part of, in terms of trade. Britain needs to engage with
:40:43. > :40:50.India, absolutely, but the kind of India which is being presented by
:40:51. > :40:53.Modi, it is a narrow and mean... It is an economy which is growing
:40:54. > :40:58.increasingly unequal and the response to that has been to put
:40:59. > :41:06.someone like Modi in that place. India is one of the largest -- India
:41:07. > :41:07.has one of the largest private sector companies. Thanks for joining
:41:08. > :41:12.us. That's almost it for tonight,
:41:13. > :41:14.but before we go, those of you who follow
:41:15. > :41:16.the glamorous lives of the rich and famous may have noticed that
:41:17. > :41:19.Hollywood actor Shia LaBeouf has recently been reinventing himself as
:41:20. > :41:22.something of a performance artist. His latest bizarre project involves
:41:23. > :41:24.sitting through a three-day marathon of every single one of his films,
:41:25. > :41:26.whilst live streaming Not to be outdone, we thought,
:41:27. > :41:32.who here at Newsnight has a back