:00:00. > :00:07.Tonight on Newsnight, we are live in Paris in the Place de
:00:08. > :00:10.la Republique, as the president tells France, "We are at war" .
:00:11. > :00:14.We report from Brussels and Belgium, where half of the attackers came
:00:15. > :00:18.from, including the man thought to have masterminded the plot.
:00:19. > :00:21.It's long been known that Belgium had a security problem.
:00:22. > :00:31.In Greece I've been speaking to an official who registered one of the
:00:32. > :00:36.suicide bombers when he first arrived in Europe. And what of the
:00:37. > :00:46.implications for Britain as the drum beat for strikes on Syria sounds.
:00:47. > :00:52.Hello, good evening from Paris, where the appalling events of what
:00:53. > :00:55.happened here on Friday have now triggered responses and
:00:56. > :00:59.investigations right across Europe, most notably in France and in
:01:00. > :01:04.Belgium. And in Greece as well. This country woke up to reports that its
:01:05. > :01:09.police had carried out raids in 168 separate locations right across
:01:10. > :01:16.France. But the most wanted man is still on the run, dangerous, very
:01:17. > :01:20.possibly still armed. Salah Abdeslam is believed to be the only surviving
:01:21. > :01:23.member of the group of gunmen who took part in Friday's atrocities.
:01:24. > :01:26.Police are understood to have initially stopped him but then let
:01:27. > :01:30.him across the border to Belgium. As the president here declared the
:01:31. > :01:35.country at war, he showed his military actions with might, attacks
:01:36. > :01:39.on Raqqa, that Isis strong hold in Syria. Mark urban, our diplomatic
:01:40. > :01:44.editor is here to talk us through the events of the day. There's been
:01:45. > :01:47.a lot of sound and fury, what is the significance of what's come out of
:01:48. > :01:52.tonight? The key thing, you mention all the raids, more than 160 of
:01:53. > :01:57.them. The state of emergency, the first time nationally in France for
:01:58. > :02:01.54 years. There are big changes afoot in France. That became clear
:02:02. > :02:05.when we heard President Hollande addressing a joint session of the
:02:06. > :02:14.two Houses of Parliament here. It was clear right from the start.
:02:15. > :02:18.TRANSLATION: France is at war. The acts committed on Friday evening in
:02:19. > :02:28.Paris and near the National Stadium are acts of war. It is an aggression
:02:29. > :02:34.against our country, against its values, against its youth, against
:02:35. > :02:39.its way of life. In the speech he laid out a hugely ambitious set of
:02:40. > :02:43.measures, 5,000 more police, more border guards, important in the
:02:44. > :02:47.context of the immigration debate, more spies. Legal changes, a state
:02:48. > :02:52.of emergency to be extended for three months, changes to the basic
:02:53. > :02:56.law of France - the constitution, redefining the terms and the powers
:02:57. > :03:00.that could be used under the state of emergency. Real changes to the
:03:01. > :03:06.concept of liberty, so central to this country. He used that very
:03:07. > :03:10.emotive phrase, "We are at war." He showed what he meant with the
:03:11. > :03:16.attacks on Raqqa. How far will military might work? A lot of debate
:03:17. > :03:18.about the targets, where did they come up with 20 targets. Islamic
:03:19. > :03:23.State denying they did any good at all. That's a purely demon strative
:03:24. > :03:30.action by France last night. They're sending a carrier. America is
:03:31. > :03:33.sending a carrier. Critically today we heard President Obama saying no
:03:34. > :03:38.more boots on the ground. He pushed back against that idea. Whatever the
:03:39. > :03:42.retorical support for France people don't want to put their troops in
:03:43. > :03:45.there. So how can you increase the pressure. The own way is through
:03:46. > :03:51.progress on the peace plan. That will be difficult. An idea floated
:03:52. > :03:54.today by President Hollande of a joint front for military action with
:03:55. > :03:57.Russia and the United States. He says he will meet both leaders soon.
:03:58. > :04:01.Perhaps through coordinated action they can help to increase the
:04:02. > :04:05.pressure that we have seen on IS, particularly from the Kurds and
:04:06. > :04:10.other forces in the north of Syria and Iraq in recent days. That's the
:04:11. > :04:21.best they can hope for, I think. Mark, thank you very much. The
:04:22. > :04:25.epicentre today changed today. There has been questions over the
:04:26. > :04:31.surveillance operations. Let's talk to our investigations reporter. What
:04:32. > :04:34.can you tell us about that? Well, the problem for Belgium is
:04:35. > :04:38.historical as much as anything else. It's a highly devolved country. It
:04:39. > :04:44.has a number of Darren police forces. It -- number of different
:04:45. > :04:53.police forces. It doesn't have the resources you might expect from MI5,
:04:54. > :04:56.GCHQ and SIS. I know in 2010 British diplomats were concerned enough
:04:57. > :04:59.about what was going on in Belgium and their counter-terrorism strategy
:05:00. > :05:03.to raise this at the highest levels of Whitehall. At the time, I think
:05:04. > :05:07.the problems were compounded by the fact that Western intelligence
:05:08. > :05:13.agencies were not really prepared to share information with Belgium. You
:05:14. > :05:16.can see that even before the Syrian crisis erupted, Belgium was
:05:17. > :05:28.considered a weak link in this intelligence chain.
:05:29. > :05:32.We're hoping to hear from the investigations in Belgium, where we
:05:33. > :05:36.know certain significant developments have been made. We
:05:37. > :05:40.understand that was not only the epicentre but the home of the man
:05:41. > :05:46.who Masterminded these attacks. But what about further afield? We know
:05:47. > :05:49.most of those who carried out the attacks in Paris were born or
:05:50. > :05:57.brought up in Belgium. But it seems likely that at least one of them
:05:58. > :06:06.entered the EU posing as a refugee last month. He was identified by
:06:07. > :06:11.fingerprints and passport details found at the scene. They match a man
:06:12. > :06:17.who we understand arrived six weeks earlier. How he got into the
:06:18. > :06:18.European Union is a huge question for European security and for
:06:19. > :06:24.Europe's migrant policy. We are heading to Medson Island,
:06:25. > :06:28.a lump of scrub and rock But for those who dump
:06:29. > :06:36.their life jackets here, this represents salvation,
:06:37. > :06:40.the entry point to Europe. They come in their thousands,
:06:41. > :06:44.fleeing violence at home. Now it seems one of them has
:06:45. > :06:49.brought the war with them. It was on this rocky outcrop,
:06:50. > :06:53.we understand, that someone with a passport in the
:06:54. > :06:59.name of Ahmad Al Mohammad was helped The passport may have been
:07:00. > :07:07.a fake but we do know that one of the Paris attackers gained entry to
:07:08. > :07:11.the EU posing as a Syrian refugee. That is an earthquake
:07:12. > :07:17.for a continent in the midst of a migration crisis and for the people
:07:18. > :07:23.who continue to arrive every day. We want the peace in Europe, because
:07:24. > :07:29.they have war in my country. I come here to better,
:07:30. > :07:34.get a new life. We may not yet know
:07:35. > :07:40.the true identity of the man named as Ahmed Al Mohammad, but his
:07:41. > :07:44.journey has injected fresh angst The Coast Guard brought
:07:45. > :07:51.Mr Al Mohammad to Leros. There, passengers go through
:07:52. > :07:54.a process of registration. Greek and EU officials take
:07:55. > :07:58.fingerprints and photographs and ask I have spoken to an official who
:07:59. > :08:03.says that he remembers Mr Al He told me he arrived on a boat
:08:04. > :08:11.with about 70 or 80 other Syrians. Immediately, something did not
:08:12. > :08:13.feel quite right about him. He said he kind
:08:14. > :08:16.of kept himself to himself. He told me he would have highlighted
:08:17. > :08:19.his concerns to an intelligence More than 500,000 refugees
:08:20. > :08:27.and migrants have entered Europe Border forces across the continent
:08:28. > :08:34.are ill-equipped to conduct On a small island like Leros,
:08:35. > :08:42.they are simply not capable Many immigrants have passed
:08:43. > :08:49.from Leros, We think all the time, maybe some
:08:50. > :08:57.of them are not really refugees. President Hollande said today that
:08:58. > :09:01.a failure to control Europe's external borders would lead to
:09:02. > :09:05.the dismantling of the union. But the man on the front line, the
:09:06. > :09:09.mayor of Leros, says that would mean Here in Leros,
:09:10. > :09:25.we don't have the economics, the It will happen again
:09:26. > :09:34.if it continues like this. The police told us they were not
:09:35. > :09:37.authorised to give interviews but He said that specially trained
:09:38. > :09:44.experts at key border crossings can help
:09:45. > :09:47.prevent terrorists from getting in. "If you want a safe Europe,
:09:48. > :09:54.this is what has to be done". The Paris bomber appears to have
:09:55. > :09:59.travelled across Europe From Leros,
:10:00. > :10:05.a man with a passport in the name of a Ahmad Al Mohammad takes a ferry
:10:06. > :10:09.to Athens on the 5th of October. Serbia registers
:10:10. > :10:11.the same name entering On October the eighth, he turns up
:10:12. > :10:17.in a refugee camp in Croatia before crossing into Hungary,
:10:18. > :10:20.believed to be heading to Austria. Then he disappears until last
:10:21. > :10:24.Friday, when he detonated a suicide On Leros, the never-ending stream
:10:25. > :10:32.of migrants continues unabated. Ahmed Al Mohammad may have been only
:10:33. > :10:36.one jihadist in a million refugees but this
:10:37. > :10:41.crisis is an issue which is testing the very bond that hold Europe
:10:42. > :10:58.together, and today, that question Clearly it does raise questions or
:10:59. > :11:02.sentiment, at least, about Schengen, about the Angela Merkel border
:11:03. > :11:14.politician. And a French politician, who was Justice Minister under Mr
:11:15. > :11:18.Sarcozy, met with me. I asked what she thought the response should be.
:11:19. > :11:19.Do you think the real threat from France comes from outside its
:11:20. > :14:30.borders or inside? Rachida Dati, the former justice
:14:31. > :14:31.minister, battling through my French.
:14:32. > :14:36.I am joined now by Alain Richard who was French defence minister under
:14:37. > :14:46.One of the phrases I took away was Rachida Dati saying that without
:14:47. > :14:51.security, you can't have liberty. In other words, the borders around
:14:52. > :14:57.Schengen, around Europe, have got to be fiercely guarded to allow for the
:14:58. > :15:04.liberty inside. Do you agree? It is rather a common view, isn't it?
:15:05. > :15:08.Identity any radical meaning in it. We have at all times to ensure
:15:09. > :15:13.security for our citizens and for the Republic as a whole. We have to
:15:14. > :15:19.do this, preserving our liberties. What can we do more? The real issue
:15:20. > :15:26.is how we do it, and what practical decisions we take. That is what we
:15:27. > :15:31.were discussing this afternoon in Parliament. What do you think those
:15:32. > :15:35.should be? When you hear for example, stories that one of the
:15:36. > :15:42.attackers came through Greece and was recognised as possibly being a
:15:43. > :15:46.loner... It is a supposition, not news. Except they have got his
:15:47. > :15:49.fingerprints so we know that he came through there, whether as a refugee
:15:50. > :15:55.or migrant, we don't know but capital will be made of this. But
:15:56. > :16:02.you remember that come all the other attacks were either born here or
:16:03. > :16:07.raised here, so it is obviously out of the screen to look first at the
:16:08. > :16:19.migration issue. The real issue is about society and the impact of
:16:20. > :16:23.jihad is -- jihadists in all our countries. France have a huge number
:16:24. > :16:26.of citizens who have left this country, to wage war and jihad and
:16:27. > :16:32.we know they are starting to come back and that is the problem. We are
:16:33. > :16:37.working on that. When you speak of an enormous number, it is less than
:16:38. > :16:45.2000 people out of 66 million. That does not sound like a lot to you? Of
:16:46. > :16:52.course, but the problem is, we have to search more people than that.
:16:53. > :16:56.Also people who are staying in France can become dangerous. That is
:16:57. > :17:03.the real challenge will be security. We have the following more than
:17:04. > :17:06.10,000. OK, the big question, and this has been attempted by
:17:07. > :17:13.governments on right and left with limited success, is it this idea
:17:14. > :17:18.that you bring in the Muslim community, make sure they are not
:17:19. > :17:24.isolated, that you include them, in an inclusive policy? Or is it the
:17:25. > :17:30.policy that says religion in France is separate from the state? Which is
:17:31. > :17:36.the right response? I don't see any contradiction between the two. We
:17:37. > :17:41.have education and public services, civic participation, all of this is
:17:42. > :17:51.open to Muslim citizens. Actually, many of them do take part. I would
:17:52. > :17:54.say that over 90% of people of Muslim culture, it does not mean
:17:55. > :18:03.that they are actually practising their religion, but we assess that
:18:04. > :18:10.probably less than 15% of people from Muslim... You know... Why do
:18:11. > :18:14.you make the distinction between those who are cultural Muslims and
:18:15. > :18:19.those who are religious Muslims? Why? There are people who don't
:18:20. > :18:24.practice and don't go to the mosque every week so they are not mainly
:18:25. > :18:31.subject to religious influence. Even the ones who become jihadists have
:18:32. > :18:37.not necessarily been religious or practising for long. Some of them
:18:38. > :18:42.are even converts. One last point, we heard from Rachida Dati about her
:18:43. > :18:48.thoughts that Angela Merkel's open door, generous policy to migrant was
:18:49. > :18:55.a mistake. What do you think France should do? What should it attitude
:18:56. > :18:59.been out refugees? We have a duty, which is a treaty we signed, as your
:19:00. > :19:06.country did, we have simply a rule which obliges us, if we check that
:19:07. > :19:11.they are actually refugees, coming from a dangerous area, we have to
:19:12. > :19:20.accept them. The real fact is that very few of them have asked to come
:19:21. > :19:24.to France, barely 2-3%. It is out of the screen to think that this is the
:19:25. > :19:29.issue really linked to the attacks. Thank you for joining us.
:19:30. > :19:31.Today the epicentre of the investigation into who carried out
:19:32. > :19:37.these attacks shifted to Belgium, and more specifically the Brussels
:19:38. > :19:42.suburb of Molenbeek, where three of those suspected of having played
:19:43. > :19:54.What is it about Belgium that seems to make it such a hotbed of
:19:55. > :20:04.Armed police and explosive experts around an apartment block in
:20:05. > :20:07.Brussels this morning, as the investigation into the Paris a tax
:20:08. > :20:12.continues to spread across Europe. This is where the siege in Molenbeek
:20:13. > :20:16.has been going on. We have seen snipers on ruse and heard what
:20:17. > :20:19.sounded like a number of explosions. The police are not
:20:20. > :20:24.telling us what is happening exactly. No one was arrested in the
:20:25. > :20:28.end. Police were looking for this man, Belgian born Salah Abdeslam,
:20:29. > :20:29.believed to be one of the attackers who fled Paris. Locals who knew him
:20:30. > :20:49.he was shocked. One of his brothers was arrested but
:20:50. > :20:50.released by Belgian police today. I asked in what his message was to the
:20:51. > :21:22.families of the victims. A third brother, Brahim Abdeslam, is
:21:23. > :21:25.the only man to be identified from the group who launched repeated
:21:26. > :21:29.attacks on Paris bar and restaurant goers. The Stade de France suicide
:21:30. > :21:34.bombers included Bill had fee, who had allegedly previously thought in
:21:35. > :21:39.this -- fought in Syria. His fellow bomber arrived as a refugee on a
:21:40. > :21:43.positive fake Syrian passport. Omar Ismail Mostefai from Paris attacked
:21:44. > :21:49.the Bataclan concert venue as did fellow Parisien Samy Amimour. Both
:21:50. > :21:57.are now dead, as is one other as yet unidentified attacker. The alleged
:21:58. > :22:01.mastermind in Syria is one of Belgium's most notorious Janice, who
:22:02. > :22:05.faked his own death to temporarily return to Europe. He even took his
:22:06. > :22:09.13-year-old brother to Isis with him. Neighbours at his father's
:22:10. > :22:13.house told us tonight the family were devastated. One described him
:22:14. > :22:18.as a normal, cannabis smoking young guy before he was radicalised. There
:22:19. > :22:21.are more Belgian jihadis in Syria per capita than any other western
:22:22. > :22:24.country other worrying number of them come from the very small and
:22:25. > :22:29.very multicultural Brussels district of Molenbeek. A lot of the people
:22:30. > :22:32.here resent the association between them and terrorism but the area has
:22:33. > :22:38.been linked to a series of attacks, even long before this. Last year, an
:22:39. > :22:42.attack on the Jewish Museum in Brussels was carried out by a French
:22:43. > :22:46.man who had spent time here. In January, police killed two men from
:22:47. > :22:50.Molenbeek in a shoot out. They were suspected of plotting terrorist
:22:51. > :22:54.attacks in Belgium. And a foiled attack on the train from Amsterdam
:22:55. > :22:59.to Paris was also linked to the area. So what is going on in
:23:00. > :23:04.Molenbeek? Many say it is wrong to label Molenbeek a kind of jihadi
:23:05. > :23:07.capital but it has 40% youth unemployment, discrimination and
:23:08. > :23:13.crime. That makes people more vulnerable to radicalisation. Some
:23:14. > :23:17.of these people are involved in criminal activities, they are
:23:18. > :23:20.members of certain groups or gangs. Then something happens in their
:23:21. > :23:25.life, it could be trauma or something that changes the way they
:23:26. > :23:32.look at life. The logical step for them is to look for Atonement, to
:23:33. > :23:36.become better Muslims. They come into contact with certain radical
:23:37. > :23:40.elements that promised them many things, like Atonement and
:23:41. > :23:45.forgiveness for everything they have done and they promised them
:23:46. > :23:48.paradise. Local young Muslims say they often felt harassed by the
:23:49. > :24:02.police but were also horrified by the recent attacks.
:24:03. > :24:10.What about the authorities here? I spoke to the woman in charge of
:24:11. > :24:14.social cohesion. TRANSLATION: I raised the alarm in 2010, said there
:24:15. > :24:17.was a time bomb in the district. We have said for a long time that the
:24:18. > :24:20.problem is social order. All we needed to do was keep the young
:24:21. > :24:26.people occupied, get them playing football, going to the cinema, but
:24:27. > :24:31.we did not help them find a place in society. Horrific violence always
:24:32. > :24:38.leads to the question why. But for 129 victims, the answers are too
:24:39. > :24:42.late. Reporting from Molenbeek, Secunder
:24:43. > :24:46.Kermani, there. Let's go back to Nick Hopkins because the Belgian
:24:47. > :24:51.authorities are trying to combat the problems they are facing. What are
:24:52. > :24:54.they doing? Well, you are absolutely right, they realised they had a
:24:55. > :24:58.problem and they were the first country in Europe to do a proper
:24:59. > :25:02.audit of their citizens that had gone to Syria and they were pretty
:25:03. > :25:08.horrified at what they discovered. There are more people going out from
:25:09. > :25:12.Belgium proportionately than other European countries. But they have
:25:13. > :25:15.tried to be more aggressive in their counterterrorism strategy in the
:25:16. > :25:19.last year. There was a showcase trial in Brussels earlier this year
:25:20. > :25:22.which had 46 defendants and only eight of them were only physically
:25:23. > :25:27.in the dock because the rest of them, many of them were thought to
:25:28. > :25:31.be fighting in Syria. One counterterrorism expert I spoke to
:25:32. > :25:36.earlier said that the problem is not that Belgium cannot do this kind of
:25:37. > :25:39.counterterrorism activity, but it is simply that they were behind the
:25:40. > :25:43.curve and they can't get ahead of it and they are being overwhelmed.
:25:44. > :25:47.Another thing I would say is that the Belgian authorities will argue,
:25:48. > :25:52.with some reason, that many of the people who have been radicalised in
:25:53. > :25:56.Brussels have listened to extremists from countries like Britain. I'm
:25:57. > :26:03.sure we will be hearing more about that in the coming days. Nick
:26:04. > :26:06.Hopkins, thank you. The manhunt may be moving the story on or elsewhere
:26:07. > :26:13.but as you can imagine, the grief right here in the heart of Paris is
:26:14. > :26:16.extraordinary raw. Our heart of this story is the lost lives, the broken
:26:17. > :26:19.hearts and they destroyed families of the victims. Lewis Goodall has
:26:20. > :26:22.been speaking to one of them. Laurent Lafont-Battesti was in the
:26:23. > :26:25.Bataclan concert hall with a friend and was forced to flee onto the roof
:26:26. > :26:41.with dozens of others after he heard We decided to sit on the balcony
:26:42. > :26:47.because the public of this band is younger than us. I think down there,
:26:48. > :26:54.they were dancing. We wanted to be in a quiet place. People were really
:26:55. > :27:06.enjoying the concert. Everyone was in a very good mood. After half an
:27:07. > :27:10.hour, we heard some bands, and so the band -- some bangs, and the band
:27:11. > :27:14.were running away behind the stage. At first, I thought it was a game,
:27:15. > :27:22.part of the show, that they would be back in five minutes, only to make
:27:23. > :27:27.us scream. At the bangs went on and on. People around me were more and
:27:28. > :27:36.more afraid. Some of them left the balcony very soon. Maybe they took
:27:37. > :27:44.the wrong decision because they went downstairs and the terrorists were
:27:45. > :27:49.there. There was a window, where you could get access to the roof.
:27:50. > :27:58.Someone before me succeeded in opening the window. There was a
:27:59. > :28:02.group of, I don't know, 40-50 people, trying to access the roof.
:28:03. > :28:11.We have tried to be gentle men, so it was ladies first to the roof. In
:28:12. > :28:19.the meantime, we were very afraid because the sounds of the bangs were
:28:20. > :28:23.going on and on. Very quickly, I have seen very beautiful things at
:28:24. > :28:26.that moment, very courageous behaviours, people trying to help
:28:27. > :28:31.each other because it was very high, the window was very high. It
:28:32. > :28:44.was difficult to access. After, when we were on the roof, we got to an
:28:45. > :28:52.apartment, which was not on the top of the next building, 52, you have
:28:53. > :28:56.yourself, so you receive news, people calling you. I had my mother
:28:57. > :29:04.on the phone because all the news channels on TV were talking about
:29:05. > :29:13.this. I was... Sincerely, I was more worried about my mother, really,
:29:14. > :29:15.because I care about. I was wondering why.
:29:16. > :29:24.Of course, those people are monsters.
:29:25. > :29:28.But maybe it is my way to try to save me, to think
:29:29. > :29:47.The survivor of the Bataclan concert hall siege, there, Laurent. While
:29:48. > :29:51.France has declared a state of war, what of its political ally, Britain?
:29:52. > :29:55.Our political editor Allegra Stratton has been looking at how the
:29:56. > :29:59.British Parliament has reacted to events in Paris over the weekend.
:30:00. > :30:01.How do you feel those discussions at the very top of both political
:30:02. > :30:12.parties have gone? David Cameron reiterated his
:30:13. > :30:17.position. He doesn't believe he has a Parliamentary majority to have
:30:18. > :30:20.strikes in Syria. And there seems to be a chasm between the two leaders.
:30:21. > :30:24.In particular, Jeremy Corbyn this afternoon told our colleague, the
:30:25. > :30:29.BBC's political editor, that he believed that British police forces
:30:30. > :30:33.shouldn't have the right to shoot-to-kill on Britain's streets.
:30:34. > :30:36.And for many Labour MPs, they were very unhappy. In a meeting this
:30:37. > :30:41.afternoon with the party, they attacked him. In fact, one person
:30:42. > :30:45.told me that they shouted him down. It was yet another testive exchange.
:30:46. > :30:51.But it serves to underline there is a huge difference. That said, I have
:30:52. > :30:57.been told that the events in Paris have shifted opinion within the
:30:58. > :31:02.Labour Party. One source told me there are now more Labour MPs minded
:31:03. > :31:05.to support David Cameron. If he could come up with a political
:31:06. > :31:09.solution alongside a military one, they would be reluctant but they
:31:10. > :31:13.would support him and defy Jeremy Corbyn. That said the same sources
:31:14. > :31:17.say the numbers of Labour MPs are not yet enough to deliver David
:31:18. > :31:20.Cameron that Parliamentary win. So there's been a shift but the Prime
:31:21. > :31:25.Minister is right to call it as he is doing, he wouldn't yet win by
:31:26. > :31:30.enough. Friends of his have told me he doesn't just want a wafer-thin
:31:31. > :31:34.win, which he would have at the moment, he would want to say British
:31:35. > :31:38.public opinion is behind him and that isn't clear right now. That's
:31:39. > :31:43.the political side of the discourse. What about the operational side, if
:31:44. > :31:47.I can call it, do they think there are procedures in place for
:31:48. > :31:51.something like this London? They seem to think they are on the front
:31:52. > :31:55.foot. More funding announced in recent days. I think we'll have more
:31:56. > :31:59.announcements on the horizon. One question is whether they would rush
:32:00. > :32:03.through the surveillance measures on the horizon, not due to come in for
:32:04. > :32:07.a while. I've been told this evening, there is no rush to put
:32:08. > :32:10.this through, whatever else you might be told. There is a
:32:11. > :32:14.vulnerability for people inside Government. They are worried that
:32:15. > :32:18.possible cuts that we may hear next Wednesday when we have the Spending
:32:19. > :32:21.Review to the police forces will expose them. The Labour Party have
:32:22. > :32:25.been attacking the Conservatives about this today and many Tories do
:32:26. > :32:31.actually think this is quite a shrewd area for them to go on. One
:32:32. > :32:34.senior source said to me, with the fight against Isil we have the
:32:35. > :32:38.surveillance measures in place. A lot of these suspects were known to
:32:39. > :32:44.people. What we don't have is the resources. To be cutting the police
:32:45. > :32:52.forces is wrong. Thank you very much. Well, as so often, after
:32:53. > :32:54.horrific events like this, there has been plenty
:32:55. > :32:57.of rhetoric here about defiance, about not letting
:32:58. > :33:02.But as the shock of France's worst post-war attack
:33:03. > :33:05.begins to subside, how will the events of last Friday night affect
:33:06. > :33:14.I've been assessing a little bit of the mood on the streets of Paris
:33:15. > :33:20.this weekend. This is a city trying to get back to
:33:21. > :33:26.normal. But there's nothing normal about this Monday morning in Paris.
:33:27. > :33:38.It's almost a relief when, at midday, the city stops to recognise
:33:39. > :33:43.that. BELL TOLLS Raw grief, incomprehension and
:33:44. > :33:47.anger. At the flower shop, where mourners and supporters come to
:33:48. > :33:51.purchase a single white rose, we're told they've never been busier. They
:33:52. > :33:58.ran out of wrapping paper two full days ago. The city understandably
:33:59. > :34:02.wants to be defiant. What's been noticeably absent this time round is
:34:03. > :34:06.any sense of communal mourning, because of this ongoing state of
:34:07. > :34:11.emergency declared, there's been literally nowhere and no way for
:34:12. > :34:15.people to gather together in the solidarity of grief. That means
:34:16. > :34:19.there hasn't been the same sense of national cohesion that we saw so
:34:20. > :34:27.firmly and so proudly after the attacks of Charlie Hebdo back in
:34:28. > :34:30.January. Then, as I remember well, La Place de la Republique was full.
:34:31. > :34:33.They came in their thousands and marched on Paris for those gunned
:34:34. > :34:37.down at their place of work. This time round, security forces have
:34:38. > :34:42.warned people not to congregate too publicly. There's that air of
:34:43. > :34:45.unfinished business, particularly whilst the han hunt for -- manhunt
:34:46. > :34:50.for one of the attackers is still full on. Overnight, with military
:34:51. > :34:55.might, France proved what the president meant when he called
:34:56. > :35:01.Friday's attack "war". There is fear. People are among themselves
:35:02. > :35:09.talking about how to live with fear, without being paralysed by fear, as
:35:10. > :35:14.fear is a kind of part of a new norm, a new normal. You know, I
:35:15. > :35:20.think people really make a point, as in January, to continue to lead a
:35:21. > :35:24.normal life. There's this general understanding that if you break with
:35:25. > :35:29.your habits and if you don't, you know, if you stay indoors, if you
:35:30. > :35:33.don't go out, don't go to restaurants, don't go to concert
:35:34. > :35:41.halls any more, it means they've won. Last night, a wave of panic
:35:42. > :35:46.throughout the capital. Sirens and police responded to what we now know
:35:47. > :35:52.were false alarms, but at the time they certainty people running. This
:35:53. > :36:00.square has once again, though, become a make-shift shrine to the
:36:01. > :36:04.victims. This banker by trade was offering hugs to passers-by. Free
:36:05. > :36:08.market compassion wholesale to anyone who needed it. It's free.
:36:09. > :36:17.Sometimes they cry. Sometimes they just talk to us. They say we have to
:36:18. > :36:27.be strong. They will not, we will not be terrorised by them. They kill
:36:28. > :36:32.people from my age and just before the attack, I was having a beer with
:36:33. > :36:39.one of my friends in a cafe, you know? So, it could have been me. So
:36:40. > :36:44.back to that question of defiance then. France will strive to prove as
:36:45. > :36:46.never before that it can't be divided along lines of race or
:36:47. > :36:50.religion, but without the opportunity to show a nation united,
:36:51. > :37:00.it gets harder and harder to put those fears of difference aside.
:37:01. > :37:05.The former assistant managing editor is with me now and joining me now to
:37:06. > :37:08.talk a bit about the sense of national cohesion and the importance
:37:09. > :37:16.really. If you feeling it as strongly this time around as we all
:37:17. > :37:24.felt it after Charlie Hebdo and the hashtag we had then. We get used to
:37:25. > :37:30.a thing the second time. I think you never get used to such horrific
:37:31. > :37:37.things. Probably people have been shocked for less longer time. I mean
:37:38. > :37:42.and the political reactions have come in a quicker way. Too fast? I
:37:43. > :37:50.don't know. It's just the way it is. It's very important to have a
:37:51. > :37:57.political debate as well. These things are not ordered. It's just
:37:58. > :38:03.the way people react. I think it's obviously different because the
:38:04. > :38:08.first time in January the attacks focussed on the newspaper and on the
:38:09. > :38:13.Jewish community. This time, it was felt like an attack on the whole
:38:14. > :38:17.French society or at least Parisian society. It's like the quote about
:38:18. > :38:21.the Nazis, that first they come for one group, then they come for
:38:22. > :38:24.another group. I guess what Friday told us was actually, they're here
:38:25. > :38:28.for everyone. They're here for the young people particularly. I would
:38:29. > :38:32.beg to differ in the sense that it is true they are of a different
:38:33. > :38:37.nature, but the Charlie Hebdo people we had grown up with them. So it was
:38:38. > :38:43.very, you know, they were very dear to us. They were people in their
:38:44. > :38:48.80s, they had shaped the political humour of generations of French
:38:49. > :38:55.people. Then they come to our Jewish compatriots, which was appalling and
:38:56. > :39:00.something which touch us deeply because of terrible memories of what
:39:01. > :39:03.we call the dark years. I don't think it's very different. Now it's
:39:04. > :39:08.different because they attacked Parisians at large, but it's the
:39:09. > :39:15.same narrative. They hate democracy. They hate civilisation, that's what
:39:16. > :39:19.France and Paris are targeted because they are among the
:39:20. > :39:25.birthplace of civilisation, enlightenment, scepticism and
:39:26. > :39:28.pleasure. And if Isis can create schisms in a society that's the work
:39:29. > :39:32.done for them tenfold. Do you fear that's what will happen now, there
:39:33. > :39:38.will be divides, along race or religion? Or difference of foreign
:39:39. > :39:46.policy even. I fear it, really strongly. I think what happen is
:39:47. > :39:51.that they, terrorism is always part of the message in it. The last time
:39:52. > :39:57.it was about freedom of expression. It was the Jewish community. This
:39:58. > :40:04.time it's about youth. It's about way of lives. I think they decided
:40:05. > :40:10.to hit a very specific part of Paris, besides the Stade de France.
:40:11. > :40:19.It's not like the kind of terrorism we're used to, like if they were
:40:20. > :40:24.going to hit the chaps Lee za, some place -- Champs Elysees, some place
:40:25. > :40:27.that is famous. This message was for the French people. It was a real
:40:28. > :40:33.lively part of Paris that was attacked. Do you think this will
:40:34. > :40:39.send people tumbling towards the right politically? Towards Marine Le
:40:40. > :40:44.Pen and the Front National or will it have a reversion effect? We'll
:40:45. > :40:54.see. There are regional elections in a few weeks. You know, the extreme
:40:55. > :41:02.right has existed since, for a long time. Since 1986, I was a teenager
:41:03. > :41:07.then, and France has been moving to the right since. I don't think it's
:41:08. > :41:12.going to enhance our divisions. On the contrary, irthink it's going to
:41:13. > :41:16.unite us more. I'm rather optimistic about the outcome about social
:41:17. > :41:21.cohesion actually. There will be questions about migration policy,
:41:22. > :41:28.about Europe's borders, about how welcoming France should be to those
:41:29. > :41:32.from outside. Yes, but I think we must at least rove sift some of the
:41:33. > :41:36.questioning, the way -- at least resist some of the questioning, the
:41:37. > :41:39.way questions are asked. Do you think you're representative of
:41:40. > :41:44.France? I think I'm representative of some French people who are
:41:45. > :41:52.actually rather left-wing and feel very much committed to civil
:41:53. > :41:58.liberties. I think in some way, the extreme right has already won a
:41:59. > :42:03.battle, which is the battle of the play Jen da. I'm not sure these --
:42:04. > :42:07.political agenda. I'm not sure these attacks will benefit them in terms
:42:08. > :42:15.of elections. We will see in a few weeks. I'm not sure about that. At
:42:16. > :42:20.least they already won because what Francois Hollande said was
:42:21. > :42:28.unmentionable some weeks ago. Things change quickly. Talking like the
:42:29. > :42:34.American conservatives in some way. He was quite adamant in Versailles
:42:35. > :42:42.saying this is not a war of civilisation because those guys
:42:43. > :42:45.represent no civilisation. It's enemy of civilisation and secondly
:42:46. > :42:50.he said refugees are the target of those people and they are welcome.
:42:51. > :42:58.So it was nice to hear, but it doesn't mean security is not an
:42:59. > :43:02.issue. There is advice for a revision of the constitution because
:43:03. > :43:06.what we have is laws dating back from 1950s, so it has to adapt to
:43:07. > :43:10.the current situation. I think he actually offered a very good balance
:43:11. > :43:16.between security and civil liberties. Now he has to walk that
:43:17. > :43:20.fine line. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Since Friday,
:43:21. > :43:26.we've been learning a little more about some of those people who lost
:43:27. > :43:30.their lives in the violence which cut across this vibrant,
:43:31. > :43:34.cosmopolitan city, the city which invented cafe culture hit in its
:43:35. > :43:40.very street cafes. Here are the faces of just a few of those who
:43:41. > :43:44.lost their lives. Nvment Good night. -- good night.