:00:07. > :00:18.Nervousness in Hannover, with the cancellation of the Germany
:00:19. > :00:29.And in Paris, scene of Friday's atrocity, a manhunt goes on.
:00:30. > :00:36.Police revealed the night they are looking for a ninth suspected
:00:37. > :00:40.attacker who may have survived. Rates continue and society is
:00:41. > :00:42.showing growing signs of strain. -- the raids continue.
:00:43. > :00:44.We'll be asking what Paris means for Syria.
:00:45. > :00:46.Does the government's longstanding desire to get Britain more
:00:47. > :00:53.And with the debate over the potential
:00:54. > :00:56.for Syrian terrorists to come to Europe, we meet some of Syrian
:00:57. > :01:11.One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten...
:01:12. > :01:17.We'll go to Paris in a moment - but let's start in London.
:01:18. > :01:25.Never has the result of a football match mattered less than
:01:26. > :01:28.Football is tribal, sometimes unruly, occasionally ugly.
:01:29. > :01:32.But with the game itself a victim on Friday,
:01:33. > :01:36.the fans at the England v France game were not going to do anything
:01:37. > :01:39.except express solidarity with Paris,
:01:40. > :01:42.bringing more meaning to the name "friendly match" than ever before.
:01:43. > :01:45.Here was the scene as the French national anthem was sung.
:01:46. > :02:11.The scene was very different in Hannover tonight.
:02:12. > :02:14.The friendly game between Germany and Holland was called off
:02:15. > :02:18.German police said they had concrete information of an attack,
:02:19. > :02:25.Evidently, there is still a lot to be nervous about.
:02:26. > :02:27.And a lot has been happening in the investigation, too.
:02:28. > :02:33.Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban is in Paris.
:02:34. > :02:37.Evan, moving around Paris and its suburbs today,
:02:38. > :02:43.we got a very distinct feeling that this crisis is far from over.
:02:44. > :02:48.Just tonight, the police have revealed that they are looking for a
:02:49. > :02:49.second on the run suspected attacker who survived.
:02:50. > :02:51.Communities are being raided, even though their leaders have
:02:52. > :02:56.condemned Friday's terror in the strongest terms.
:02:57. > :02:59.And of course, there is a state of emergency
:03:00. > :03:05.that's set to continue for at least three months.
:03:06. > :03:10.Critically, there's a feeling that having been the victim of two major
:03:11. > :03:12.terror attacks already this year, it could easily happen again.
:03:13. > :03:15.The Eiffel Tower symbolises so much at this moment.
:03:16. > :03:19.France may be proud and upright but here also,
:03:20. > :03:23.you can see it is too early to talk about life returning to normal.
:03:24. > :03:27.Australia today advised nationals to avoid Paris
:03:28. > :03:30.but that did not deter the Cross family from the Gold Coast.
:03:31. > :03:32.I think it's important to continue the holiday.
:03:33. > :03:38.The city seems to be functioning within reason,
:03:39. > :03:45.We feel safe. Police everywhere.
:03:46. > :03:51.They were to be disappointed however, because this morning,
:03:52. > :03:53.the tower did not reopen at the appointed hour.
:03:54. > :03:57.That is just one sign of an enduring state of emergency
:03:58. > :04:05.Combine Friday's tragedy with what happened here in January,
:04:06. > :04:08.and the possibility of further attacks, and you have
:04:09. > :04:20.We were expecting that the government would have taken measures
:04:21. > :04:30.I mean, the people in the street were not expecting anything more.
:04:31. > :04:33.To feel a kind of rehearsal of this nightmare makes people very
:04:34. > :04:37.sad, first, very anxious and then very angry.
:04:38. > :04:46.That anger and apprehension has fuelled hundreds of raids
:04:47. > :04:53.Today, police said they had uncovered two safe houses and a
:04:54. > :04:59.hotel room where they think suicide bomb belts had been assembled.
:05:00. > :05:04.But not all operations have yielded positive results.
:05:05. > :05:10.We heard that a mosque had been raided last night
:05:11. > :05:15.Here, the police smashed their way in,
:05:16. > :05:20.The place had been tidied up by the time we got there
:05:21. > :05:25.but it is easy to see how emotions in the poor suburbs, or banlieues,
:05:26. > :05:37."Look", this man said, showing pictures of the damage.
:05:38. > :05:41."These are religious books, sacred. It pains me".
:05:42. > :05:47.Surveying the banlieues, where the dozens of mosques he
:05:48. > :05:49.oversees are located, Mohamed Hanniche worries about the pressure
:05:50. > :05:57.So the Muslims in this business are going to pay twice over.
:05:58. > :06:00.They will pay because their religion has been tarnished,
:06:01. > :06:07.And they will pay in the months and years to come because there will
:06:08. > :06:11.be a crisis of feelings and tension around the visibility of Islam.
:06:12. > :06:16.The state of siege is hardly helped by the fact that at least one
:06:17. > :06:21.of Friday's suspected attackers, Salah Abdeslam, is still at large.
:06:22. > :06:25.Tonight, his brother appealed to him to turn himself in.
:06:26. > :06:27.TRANSLATION: We are a family.
:06:28. > :06:30.We are thinking of him. We are wondering where he is.
:06:31. > :06:33.Is he afraid? Is he eating?
:06:34. > :06:37.The best thing would be for him to turn himself in so justice can shed
:06:38. > :06:47.In Aubervilliers and elsewhere in the banlieues, the manhunt goes on.
:06:48. > :06:49.France has awoken to the dangers of having hundreds
:06:50. > :06:57.The right is riding high in the polls, and many fear Europe more
:06:58. > :07:03.Unfortunately, it is not only France.
:07:04. > :07:07.It could be Britain, Spain, Germany, whatever.
:07:08. > :07:15.I think we have to learn to live with, I think that we may...
:07:16. > :07:17.Reach a level of Israeli society or something.
:07:18. > :07:20.We have to get used to living with this risk.
:07:21. > :07:24.I think it is something that our mind is not set but unfortunately,
:07:25. > :07:33.Millions of French of all faiths are determined to deny the terrorists
:07:34. > :07:37.their objective of breaking apart this society, and to escape the
:07:38. > :07:44.But each successive attack will force people to draw a little more
:07:45. > :07:58.We are going to discuss those issues now.
:07:59. > :08:01.With me now is the Arab-French author and film maker Karim Miske
:08:02. > :08:02.and Paris-based journalist Anne Elisabeth Moutet.
:08:03. > :08:11.Can I ask you first, a lot of people talk about the difference in feeling
:08:12. > :08:16.between after the Charlie Hebdo events in January and now. What do
:08:17. > :08:23.you sense? Well, I sense that there is not the same rift in society.
:08:24. > :08:28.After the Charlie Hebdo attacks, quite quickly, France was divided
:08:29. > :08:32.quite quickly because a lot of Muslims had been offended by the
:08:33. > :08:35.cartoons. Now it is different because everybody is hit, the whole
:08:36. > :08:42.of French society suffers in the same way. Then there is also of
:08:43. > :08:46.course this double bind because of public opinion and some politicians
:08:47. > :08:52.or journalists are asking the Muslims to in a way condemn even
:08:53. > :08:57.more than the others. But I think they do it the same way as other
:08:58. > :09:04.French people. The effect of so many raids in the banlieues, can it go on
:09:05. > :09:10.at this level? I guess it is too early to know. At the moment,
:09:11. > :09:16.everyone is shocked. I don't know. It depends how long it lasts and it
:09:17. > :09:19.depends if it is really focused, if there are real reasons for them to
:09:20. > :09:26.raid these specific mosques or specific neighbourhoods or not. If
:09:27. > :09:31.they are just randomly raiding such and such areas because they think
:09:32. > :09:35.that there are a lot of practising Muslims there, it is not going to
:09:36. > :09:40.work, definitely. A lot of speculation about the Front
:09:41. > :09:45.National, will they benefit from this and what will we see in the
:09:46. > :09:50.local elections coming up next month? Several things. We don't know
:09:51. > :09:56.yet and as you have said, it is early days. The Front National, this
:09:57. > :10:02.time, just like at the time of Charlie Hebdo, has been incredibly
:10:03. > :10:05.tin eared. Their reaction was not in harmony with the rest of the
:10:06. > :10:13.country. The show of unity in the country has been impressive and
:10:14. > :10:18.Karim is right, we are seeing the faces of the people who died and
:10:19. > :10:27.they were black, white, brown, women, men, mostly young and this is
:10:28. > :10:33.the new French nation. Any diverging and shockingly different tone and
:10:34. > :10:38.bitter, dividing attitude is something that does not work. Even
:10:39. > :10:43.when Nicolas goes the criticised the policy, you may have had a point
:10:44. > :10:48.that -- Nicolas Nkoulou C criticised the policy he may have had a point
:10:49. > :10:51.but it jarred. We are electing powers to the 13 regions of France
:10:52. > :10:54.and it is possible that one or two may go to the Front National which
:10:55. > :11:01.is also a possibility before this happened. They are important in
:11:02. > :11:06.terms of the French economic way of administering itself. In terms of
:11:07. > :11:09.politics, they are mostly important as a life-size poll. It will be
:11:10. > :11:13.interesting to see if the Front National games a lot. They are
:11:14. > :11:17.really the only party where you can see a difference because these are
:11:18. > :11:22.very local elections and I don't see Francois Hollande's very respectable
:11:23. > :11:29.performance in dealing with this horrible crisis reflected in itself
:11:30. > :11:34.on the ground, in the profited so much. How do you think, societally,
:11:35. > :11:37.the bigger issue of so many returning jab this is, people who
:11:38. > :11:43.have been involved in struggle, can be managed -- returning jihadists,
:11:44. > :11:48.people have been involved in struggle, can be managed in a way
:11:49. > :11:53.that does not open up wrists? It is going to be difficult and in France,
:11:54. > :12:00.we began very late, if you compare it to Britain, Denmark or Germany,
:12:01. > :12:05.to really address the question of jihad is -- jet had it,
:12:06. > :12:13.radicalisation and so on. Why did France begin so late? Maybe because
:12:14. > :12:17.we are very afraid of what we call... We don't want to deal with
:12:18. > :12:21.communities. It is true they don't exactly exist in the same way as in
:12:22. > :12:25.other countries but nevertheless, you want to do this kind of job, you
:12:26. > :12:31.have to do it with the other communities, not against them.
:12:32. > :12:34.Lastly, briefly, from each of you, do you recognise the term French
:12:35. > :12:44.intifada that some writers have used or is it just type? I don't
:12:45. > :12:48.recognise this, no. The intifada is really two nations struggling
:12:49. > :12:53.against one another. This is a tiny proportion. It is absolutely not
:12:54. > :13:01.relevant. This is a terrorist attack that targets France in a shock and
:13:02. > :13:06.awe tactic. It has nothing to do with something that, however you
:13:07. > :13:10.feel about it, is based on ground and to rain. I would say that these
:13:11. > :13:13.people, even though they were French, were foreigners in their own
:13:14. > :13:14.country and that is not the case with the intifada.
:13:15. > :13:22.Back to football tonight, where we started the programme.
:13:23. > :13:24.Now, there was a lot of rumour about the situation in Hannover
:13:25. > :13:26.earlier this evening, and the reasons for cancelling
:13:27. > :13:30.Let's talk to the BBC's Berlin correspondent Jenny Hill,
:13:31. > :13:42.Just what happened? They did not apparently find any explosives,
:13:43. > :13:47.despite rumours to the contrary. Quite. Just a few hours ago, there
:13:48. > :13:52.was gridlock here, police officers everywhere, sirens going off,
:13:53. > :13:55.flashing lights everywhere. The police president for Hannover said
:13:56. > :13:59.there was a concrete threat, a concrete security threat against the
:14:00. > :14:03.city of Hannover. Verdi 2000 fans had bought tickets for the game.
:14:04. > :14:08.They were evacuated from the stadium and told by the police, not just
:14:09. > :14:13.leave the stadium but the area, to go home and get out of town. --
:14:14. > :14:17.32,000 fans. There has been two other securities gains in addition
:14:18. > :14:22.in this city tonight. As you say, tonight the police say they have
:14:23. > :14:25.made no arrests and found no explosives. The interior Minister
:14:26. > :14:30.for Germany was due to watch the game along with members of the
:14:31. > :14:34.German cabinet and the Chancellor. That is because this game was about
:14:35. > :14:37.far more than just football. The German team, who of course
:14:38. > :14:40.themselves were caught up in the Paris attacks on Friday, were
:14:41. > :14:47.nervous about the game going ahead but agreed to participate, to let it
:14:48. > :14:51.happen because they and a lot of the German people dealt it was important
:14:52. > :14:55.to show solidarity and defiance in the face of international terrorism
:14:56. > :14:59.but instead of watching the match, the interior minister ended up
:15:00. > :15:02.giving a press conference right here a little earlier this evening. He
:15:03. > :15:06.says he wants Germans to trust him when he says he received the kind of
:15:07. > :15:10.intelligence which meant he felt there was no choice but to cancel
:15:11. > :15:15.the game and evacuate the stadium. Briefly, is there a sense they were
:15:16. > :15:18.being a bit jumpy and too cautious? Is everyone doing that, trusting him
:15:19. > :15:24.and assuming there was good intelligence? Of course there are
:15:25. > :15:28.questions about the proportionality of the response. But interestingly,
:15:29. > :15:32.the interior minister said that he was not prepared to share the source
:15:33. > :15:36.of the intelligence which led him to make his decision. There are
:15:37. > :15:40.unconfirmed reports circulating in the German press which suggest that
:15:41. > :15:44.intelligence may have come on France. We don't know that for
:15:45. > :15:48.certain but if that is the case, perhaps the response was rather more
:15:49. > :15:52.understandable. It cannot be over emphasised enough, Germany is
:15:53. > :15:56.nervous at the highest levels of government. They are expecting a
:15:57. > :15:59.terrorist atrocity. In the words of one minister Tom Germany is in the
:16:00. > :16:03.cross hairs of international terrorism.
:16:04. > :16:06.Well, football is global, it is multicultural and it is fun,
:16:07. > :16:08.and it is evidently a target for jihadists who stand
:16:09. > :16:14.Does this have consequences for the game?
:16:15. > :16:17.One man who is surely having to give some thought to this is
:16:18. > :16:19.Richard Scudamore, the chief executive of the Premier League.
:16:20. > :16:23.I sat down to talk to him this afternoon.
:16:24. > :16:25.A suicide bomber was stopped from getting
:16:26. > :16:30.Could a violent incident be stopped if a bomber tried the same
:16:31. > :16:37.Well, I think one has to hope that it would.
:16:38. > :16:40.I think it's very difficult to say with absolute certainty that it
:16:41. > :16:43.would because you have to rely on intelligence an awful lot.
:16:44. > :16:46.You have to rely on a lot of the intelligence services an awful lot.
:16:47. > :16:50.But yeah, we do have a situation where, you know, I am absolutely
:16:51. > :16:52.certain everything is done that could possibly be done.
:16:53. > :16:56.But we all live in a situation where you cannot
:16:57. > :16:59.entirely rule out and legislate for these attacks of really just,
:17:00. > :17:02.just terrible, despicable acts where people are prepared to blow
:17:03. > :17:14.Do you think there will be more frisking of fans as they come in,
:17:15. > :17:18.We have been on high alert at Premier League games
:17:19. > :17:23.If you think we're going to be on extra high alert this coming
:17:24. > :17:27.The club secretaries are all meeting tomorrow, there will be a discussion
:17:28. > :17:30.There will be further guidance issued again over
:17:31. > :17:35.the next coming days, before the games start at the weekend.
:17:36. > :17:38.But ultimately, if somebody is absolutely, absolutely hell-bent -
:17:39. > :17:43.and that is really the word - in terms of making something
:17:44. > :17:45.terrible happen, you cannot entirely, entirely rule it out.
:17:46. > :17:51.Richard Scudamore of the Premier League.
:17:52. > :17:54.We had a long chat about football and the English Premier League and
:17:55. > :17:59.Tonight though, the national game was the focus.
:18:00. > :18:02.The friendly game between England and France ended in a 2-0 England
:18:03. > :18:07.Despite the weather, it was an occasion for warmth.
:18:08. > :18:10.It was almost like the Christmas truce - hostilities buried
:18:11. > :18:19.The unified singing of the French national anthem was moving,
:18:20. > :18:33.as was the minute's silence for those who lost their lives.
:18:34. > :18:38.I'm joined by the former French and Premier League player, Louis Saha.
:18:39. > :18:49.Good evening. You have got up very early in the morning. Do you
:18:50. > :18:54.appreciate that football is a target of these jihadists, it is something
:18:55. > :19:01.it represents that they find abhorrent and want to target? I
:19:02. > :19:06.think so, it is one of the most popular games in the world. It has
:19:07. > :19:15.such an effect on the press, just talking about the stadium in Paris,
:19:16. > :19:21.Paris is such a lovely town and is loved by many people, many visitors.
:19:22. > :19:31.So football is like a big symbol and to touch that was really hard. I
:19:32. > :19:38.think it is not really important for sport, it is more the impact, the
:19:39. > :19:43.disaster on families, children seeing horrible things. It was
:19:44. > :19:48.touching to see the support of England. What were your feelings
:19:49. > :19:52.when you heard about the events in Paris and especially the suicide
:19:53. > :19:58.bombers at the start of France. I was scared, I had so many friends
:19:59. > :20:09.who went to see the game. Just wanting to have a nice time and just
:20:10. > :20:15.chilled with friends. You hear about bombs and Kalashnikov rifles and
:20:16. > :20:20.horrible scenes in the street. It has an impact on everyone. I was
:20:21. > :20:24.shocked and devastated. I know there could be people that I know and I
:20:25. > :20:31.was really scared. So it had an impact on everyone. What does it
:20:32. > :20:35.mean that English fans sang the French national anthem this
:20:36. > :20:44.evening? It is huge. We know there is a special relationship, a history
:20:45. > :20:49.between England and France. We can see from that special game, it was
:20:50. > :20:57.very emotional. 70,000 people singing together the French national
:20:58. > :21:03.anthem. It is emotional, it was really touching. I can only say
:21:04. > :21:09.thank you and paid tribute to those people who really supported and
:21:10. > :21:13.travelled, because it was not like someplace that you feel very safe.
:21:14. > :21:17.Because of what happened in the Stade de France. They had the
:21:18. > :21:22.courage to show they were against what happened, against terrorism or
:21:23. > :21:29.top and this is the way forward. It would be nice if every country did
:21:30. > :21:32.the same. Every country react the same. It could be Africa or other
:21:33. > :21:36.countries. Thank you for joining us. It just
:21:37. > :21:38.so happens that with questions being asked across the continent
:21:39. > :21:41.about the wisdom of allowing Syrians into Europe, the largest group
:21:42. > :21:43.of refugees that Britain has Now Britain has its own resettlement
:21:44. > :21:49.programme, which is not aimed at those who make perilous journeys to
:21:50. > :21:52.Europe, but at a smaller number who A plane of such people landed
:21:53. > :21:58.in Glasgow today. Katie Razzall went to Jordan to meet
:21:59. > :22:02.some of those who've now arrived, to see the process they've had to
:22:03. > :22:24.go through to be accepted here. In Jordan were one fifth of the
:22:25. > :22:30.population is now Syrian, for some it is a time of goodbye. After years
:22:31. > :22:35.of waiting there are being resettled. Hundreds are travelling
:22:36. > :22:49.from ear to the UK over the next month. -- from here.
:22:50. > :22:54.Last week with our translator I met one family repairing for a life.
:22:55. > :22:58.Approved by UNHCR as vulnerable as to meet with settlement, the UK
:22:59. > :23:11.offered them sanctuary. The little ones looked ready to go. One two,
:23:12. > :23:16.three, four, five, six... His father, a diabetic, died in Syria.
:23:17. > :23:23.The children were taken in by their ant and uncle. There aged 18 and 20.
:23:24. > :23:33.And there one more member of the family. And here is the head of the
:23:34. > :23:36.family. What did you have to do to satisfy the requirements to be able
:23:37. > :24:07.in the end to be resettled? What do you know about the UK?
:24:08. > :24:12.Injured in the war and needing a hard operation, this man is deemed
:24:13. > :24:46.an urgent vulnerable case. Your nephews are here. Why are they
:24:47. > :25:19.with you, what happened to your brother?
:25:20. > :25:26.For traumatised young boys football has offered some comfort. Now
:25:27. > :25:30.they're bidding farewell to friends at the orphans charity that help the
:25:31. > :25:45.family since they fled Syria in 2013.
:25:46. > :25:50.Without the wages of the oldest family could not have survived. Like
:25:51. > :25:55.85% of refugees in Jordan they do not live in camps but pay for
:25:56. > :25:59.private rented accommodation. It is illegal for refugees to working
:26:00. > :26:05.without a permit and he has been arrested three times. Impoverished
:26:06. > :26:09.circumstances are another thing that UNHCR takes into account. Like many
:26:10. > :26:15.families, theirs is complicated. Their mother was the first wife who
:26:16. > :26:21.has since remarried with younger children. Yet another refugee family
:26:22. > :26:23.living in Jordan. Now her eldest children are being resettled with
:26:24. > :26:29.their father. Sometimes there are no words for good ride.
:26:30. > :26:33.The family are thankful to the UK. They will be safe, they say, and
:26:34. > :26:37.free to work and study. But it is a wrench to leave the country that
:26:38. > :26:43.closely resembles their homeland and the tears flow easily.
:26:44. > :26:52.You're going to the UK. You may never see Syria again. What memories
:26:53. > :27:12.with you hold onto? -- will you.
:27:13. > :27:18.Jordan has taken in so many Syrians. For a country the size it is the
:27:19. > :27:23.equivalent of everyone from Greece moving to the UK in the space of two
:27:24. > :27:27.years. Now some are leaving and buying codes for the Glaswegian
:27:28. > :27:33.whether they have been warned about. UNHCR rates about one tenth of the
:27:34. > :27:37.Syrian refugees as fulfilling the vulnerability criteria for
:27:38. > :27:41.resettlement. I have covered the refugee crisis in Europe, where it
:27:42. > :27:45.is not difficult to spot the people seeking a better life. Here in
:27:46. > :27:49.Jordan the refugees are much more hidden. There are intermingled with
:27:50. > :27:54.the population and living in a kind of limbo. There are just so many
:27:55. > :27:58.vulnerable people here. I wonder how the authorities decide which of them
:27:59. > :28:06.are vulnerable enough to be resettled. Newsnight has been given
:28:07. > :28:12.exclusive access to the resettlement offers of UNHCR where the
:28:13. > :28:17.assessments are made. Are you and your family interested in being
:28:18. > :28:22.resettled? Yes. There are two kinds of interview going on behind the
:28:23. > :28:26.stores. The initial interrogation when they get some details about why
:28:27. > :28:32.they left Syria, and what their life is like in Jordan. Then a much more
:28:33. > :28:35.lengthy, in-depth interrogation where they are questioned about why
:28:36. > :28:40.they fled their country and of why there might be eligible for
:28:41. > :28:43.resettlement. Since September when the images of
:28:44. > :28:46.the little Syrian boy washed on the beach shocked the world, countries
:28:47. > :28:51.like the UK have upped their resettlement numbers. There is a
:28:52. > :28:57.target or quota offered by the UK, 500 people. By the end of the year
:28:58. > :29:05.we will have slightly over 500 Syrian refugees who will leave for
:29:06. > :29:07.the UK from Jordan. When you see torture, D1 tell us what was going
:29:08. > :29:38.on. -- do you want to tell us. You are saying they poured spirit
:29:39. > :29:44.onto the open wounds. So your family was alone at that
:29:45. > :29:46.time. The UK carries out its own detailed security checks before
:29:47. > :29:52.approving a refugee resettlement. Here at UNHCR they made every effort
:29:53. > :29:59.to verify often harrowing accounts. It takes a toll on us. The fact that
:30:00. > :30:05.you can talk to someone who has gone through something on a day-to-day
:30:06. > :30:08.basis, we would consider to be horrible and horrendous. And they
:30:09. > :30:11.smile at you at the end of the interview. That is what keeps you
:30:12. > :30:15.going, but you can see a child who has gone through quite a bit and
:30:16. > :30:20.they're here feel safe. They can run around and come and touch you and
:30:21. > :30:26.say hello. That is what keeps us going. The Syrian family that we met
:30:27. > :30:30.know they're lucky. Today they were aboard the charter flight of
:30:31. > :30:36.vulnerable refugees heading to Glasgow. They had never been on a
:30:37. > :30:40.plane before. Our family will not emerge through these does. The
:30:41. > :30:45.British authorities have been clear, they want to keep the new arrivals
:30:46. > :30:48.away from the cameras. That is understandable, they have a duty of
:30:49. > :30:52.care towards these people and they are vulnerable. I cannot say I'm not
:30:53. > :30:56.disappointed, I had hoped to be allowed to meet them, to be a
:30:57. > :31:04.familiar face as they arrived in this new and strange land.
:31:05. > :31:09.There is the first wave of up to 1000 Syrians who will arrive before
:31:10. > :31:14.Christmas. The Glasgow weather must have been a shock. Newsnight hopes
:31:15. > :31:18.to follow them and another family as they begin their new lives.
:31:19. > :31:20.And good luck to them. Now,
:31:21. > :31:22.events in Paris have ramifications One, they are focusing minds
:31:23. > :31:27.on how to move forward politically, particularly if shared ground can
:31:28. > :31:31.be found with the Russians. Two, events have focused minds
:31:32. > :31:33.on what can be achieved militarily Let's face it, Britain's been
:31:34. > :31:38.debating that anyway for months. But the argument gained
:31:39. > :31:40.new energy today. Allegra Stratton has been
:31:41. > :31:47.following it. A vote in 2003, that took us
:31:48. > :31:54.into the Iraq War. This is the time for this House,
:31:55. > :31:59.not just this government or indeed this Prime Minister,
:32:00. > :32:01.but for this House to give a lead. And ten years later, a vote in 2013
:32:02. > :32:06.that kept us out of a Syrian war. It is clear to me that the British
:32:07. > :32:10.Parliament, reflecting the views of the British people, does not want
:32:11. > :32:13.to see British military action. I get that, and the government
:32:14. > :32:19.will act accordingly. Learning the right lessons
:32:20. > :32:25.from these two votes determines whether or not Parliament gets
:32:26. > :32:27.a third vote, a fresh look Recently, a committee
:32:28. > :32:31.of MPs warned the Prime Minister Today, he said he would be
:32:32. > :32:41.addressing their concerns directly. I will respond personally to the
:32:42. > :32:46.report of the foreign affairs select committee. I will set out, read a
:32:47. > :32:50.strategy for dealing with Isil, our vision for a more stable and
:32:51. > :32:54.peaceful Middle East. This strategy, in my view, should include taking
:32:55. > :32:58.the action in Syria I have spoken about. I hope that in setting up the
:32:59. > :33:03.arguments in this way, I can help build support right across this
:33:04. > :33:13.house for the action I believe is necessary to take. A lot has changed
:33:14. > :33:15.since the vote in September 2013. Events in Paris over the weekend, of
:33:16. > :33:18.course, but even before that, talks in Vienna suggesting the West and
:33:19. > :33:20.Russia might after all be able to join forces and the suggestion of
:33:21. > :33:23.compromise over the future role of President Assad. But for the
:33:24. > :33:27.critical inner workings of this place, the Prime Minister's comments
:33:28. > :33:31.to date may prove the most important in persuading Labour MPs. He
:33:32. > :33:34.suggested he may be coming forward with a plan at the suggestion is it
:33:35. > :33:40.will include political and military solutions. You can't do this job
:33:41. > :33:44.from the air alone unless there is a credible ground Force, and I don't
:33:45. > :33:48.mean just the Kurds, who are only a part of the picture. There has to be
:33:49. > :33:52.a credible ground force which we are supporting with air power.
:33:53. > :33:58.Otherwise, it is a pointless, futile and dangerous, empty gesture. Apart
:33:59. > :34:02.from that, it's a great idea! I'm open-minded because I think there's
:34:03. > :34:08.a threat that Isis poses, not just in Syria but to the security of the
:34:09. > :34:11.UK and clearly to the security of our European neighbours as well, as
:34:12. > :34:16.we saw, tragically on the streets of Paris on Friday. I think our
:34:17. > :34:21.leadership should have a free vote on the issue, given the diversions
:34:22. > :34:25.of view is that there clearly are. Jeremy Corbyn is still insisting he
:34:26. > :34:30.will whip his MPs on the vote. David Cameron's great hope is that he can
:34:31. > :34:33.prise away quite a number of them. But how many? If we can get to the
:34:34. > :34:38.situation where it looks like Britain, as one, can come together,
:34:39. > :34:41.I'm not asking for an overwhelming majority, a majority would be good
:34:42. > :34:46.enough, to come forward and say it is right for us to take this action.
:34:47. > :34:52.The inner workings of Parliament are shifting right now. BELL
:34:53. > :34:56.Behind the scenes, the machinery of whipping the forthcoming Syrian vote
:34:57. > :34:59.has started. I think the Prime Minister does not care if the Leader
:35:00. > :35:04.of the Opposition votes against him as long as he gets a majority of
:35:05. > :35:09.50-60. To get this, you would need to limit the Tory rebellion to
:35:10. > :35:12.15-20, while persuading some 70 Labour rebels including some senior
:35:13. > :35:19.figures like Yvette Cooper, a tricky task. And what of actual public
:35:20. > :35:24.opinion? Since the summer of 2014, support for air strikes against Isil
:35:25. > :35:28.in Syria has risen to 60% and stayed there, despite a toxic Iraq legacy,
:35:29. > :35:36.opposition to British ground troops in Iraq has also weakened. And then
:35:37. > :35:41.there is Paris. A public outpouring of sympathy, yes, but no one can say
:35:42. > :35:45.yet whether it would be matched by public clamour for strikes. We will
:35:46. > :35:46.find out very soon. There are reports tonight that the vote could
:35:47. > :35:48.be before Christmas. With me now are
:35:49. > :35:50.General Sir Mike Jackson, former chief of the general staff and
:35:51. > :36:02.Wadah Khanfar, the former director You are a sceptic of military action
:36:03. > :36:08.to deal with Isis? What is the tool you would use? What would you do? I
:36:09. > :36:14.would advise that there is some kind of multilevel approach. This is a
:36:15. > :36:18.complicated conflict that has just not only started. This conflict has
:36:19. > :36:23.been there for a long time. Isis is a production of reality, of a social
:36:24. > :36:29.and political betrayal that I think, western society in
:36:30. > :36:33.particular, international society, has lived down those who have been
:36:34. > :36:37.calling for freedom. We have been watching hundreds of thousands of
:36:38. > :36:42.people murdered, after also, the path for actual reform, political
:36:43. > :36:50.reform in the Arab world was blocked when we accepted that the Egyptian
:36:51. > :36:54.coup could destroy that great march for freedom and democracy and then
:36:55. > :36:57.we have Isis. We have to deal with Isis but if we do it militarily, we
:36:58. > :37:00.have the rebels, the Free Syrian Army, who have been there and we
:37:01. > :37:04.have not allow them to progress because we were very careful not to
:37:05. > :37:08.give their weapons and we were watching President Assad murdering
:37:09. > :37:13.his nation... But what do you actually do about Isis? I hear about
:37:14. > :37:18.the things we might have done wrong. Give the Free Syrian Army, the
:37:19. > :37:26.people on the ground, weapons to fight the battle. And give them a
:37:27. > :37:31.counter narrative. Isis has been a thriving on this kind of reality,
:37:32. > :37:34.which is very dark and grim, and the feeling of victimisation and
:37:35. > :37:37.oppression. Give people new hope that we can march towards the
:37:38. > :37:42.future, towards normal life without the international society being
:37:43. > :37:45.indifferent to the suffering of the public and allowing Isis to thrive
:37:46. > :37:52.with this narrative they have been preaching. Words, which is a counter
:37:53. > :37:57.narrative, and weapons to the Free Syrian Army? It is not just about
:37:58. > :38:02.Syria, though, is it? Syria is clearly a focus for what is going
:38:03. > :38:08.on. But the influence of Isis spreads much further. There is the
:38:09. > :38:14.regional problem. Then there is the rather more international problem,
:38:15. > :38:20.shown by the desperate event in Paris. I don't believe you can
:38:21. > :38:26.negotiate with these people. It is not on offer. So it is military,
:38:27. > :38:30.basically? Not exclusively but there has to be a military dimension. It
:38:31. > :38:36.seems to be the only language that they understand. I take no pleasure
:38:37. > :38:44.in saying that but that is what I have concluded. Again, you know,
:38:45. > :38:48.Isis is there and even if you destroyed it now, and that could be
:38:49. > :38:53.done by the people of the region, in my opinion, there would be a serious
:38:54. > :38:59.situation. If the reasons for the creation of Isis are not eliminated,
:39:00. > :39:05.another Isis will be born. Like Al-Qaeda before? Exactly. That is
:39:06. > :39:08.why I say the military is but one dimension. Can I get you both to
:39:09. > :39:12.agree, can we agree as one of the people said in that film, you have
:39:13. > :39:17.to have a political strategy and with that, there may be a case for
:39:18. > :39:23.some kind of military strategy? Do you agree with that? There are two
:39:24. > :39:26.counter narratives, one of religion, where we give people hope that we
:39:27. > :39:29.could reach some kind of normal life. People are sick and tired of
:39:30. > :39:32.blood. We have seen its pleasures and death by hundreds of thousands
:39:33. > :39:37.in the region. Definitely, the public in the Arab world, Iraq,
:39:38. > :39:44.Syria and everywhere, are sick of this. But they would like to be
:39:45. > :39:47.embraced, encouraged to go towards democracy. The word democracy has
:39:48. > :39:52.been eliminated from the Western discourse in the last few years. No
:39:53. > :39:57.one speaks about democracy in the Arab world. We allowed addict take
:39:58. > :40:01.comeback and now we are destroying Isis -- dictatorship to come back
:40:02. > :40:05.and now we are destroying Isis without giving people a new
:40:06. > :40:09.narrative for hope for the future. You may disagree about the political
:40:10. > :40:13.strategy but I think you both agree that it's necessary. Let's go back
:40:14. > :40:19.to the Great War philosopher, who made it very clear that the use of
:40:20. > :40:25.force is posited as by another means. -- politics by other means.
:40:26. > :40:28.What difference is the debate in Britain going to make to the
:40:29. > :40:33.outcome? What I am hearing is an argument that is about the West,
:40:34. > :40:37.really. What percentage difference will British involvement in the
:40:38. > :40:41.Syrian conflict, military involvement make? In military terms,
:40:42. > :40:49.we are not crucial. I accept that entirely. I think politically, it
:40:50. > :40:53.matters a great deal. I believe so. Here we are, here is agreement. I
:40:54. > :41:01.picked up on the involvement of the regional powers. Absolutely. Not off
:41:02. > :41:05.the west. Do you think Britain is significant? We have been talking
:41:06. > :41:09.about it but we deluded to think we are at play in this or are we?
:41:10. > :41:14.Britain is significant, the voice of Britain is significant but
:41:15. > :41:19.significant in what direction? He said the region. There was an offer,
:41:20. > :41:23.regardless if it was 100%, by Turkey, for example, to have a free
:41:24. > :41:28.zone and that was offered six or seven months ago and no one bothered
:41:29. > :41:31.to negotiate or talk about it. The solution was there, for example, but
:41:32. > :41:36.we really felt for a moment that this conflict could continue without
:41:37. > :41:39.us being affected. Now we realise that blood in the region will never
:41:40. > :41:43.stay in the region and it could spill over to the entire world.
:41:44. > :41:46.Thank you for joining us. Empire alone is not enough.
:41:47. > :42:05.Emily is back tomorrow, and we'll have more of that
:42:06. > :42:06.Storm Barney has been rattling our windows