:00:00. > :00:00.A stab in the back, says Russia as Turkey blows
:00:00. > :00:12.It's the first time a Nato country has shot down a Russian plane
:00:13. > :00:14.in over 60 years, and Russia is warning of "serious consequences" -
:00:15. > :00:21.Is tomorrow's Spending Review the moment George Osborne reshapes the
:00:22. > :00:29.I said "Dad, they're telling us to get under our desks
:00:30. > :00:32."and put our books over our heads".
:00:33. > :00:34.My dad said "That's not exactly going to be effective
:00:35. > :00:38."against a 50 megatonne hydrogen bomb".
:00:39. > :00:41.And Hollywood legend Stephen Smith meets the director Steven Spielberg
:00:42. > :00:50.to talk about his new Cold War movie.
:00:51. > :01:03.Today, Russia and Turkey, two of the countries purporting to be
:01:04. > :01:21.Each country issued its own radar pictures showing
:01:22. > :01:24.attacked the Russian bomber to assauge
:01:25. > :01:28.Turkish discontent at Syrian attacks on the Turkomen in Northern Syria.
:01:29. > :01:32.And into this volatile mix may fly British warplanes,
:01:33. > :01:36.if David Cameron wins a House of Commons vote as early as next week.
:01:37. > :01:39.Our Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban takes us through this drama.
:01:40. > :01:49.His piece does contain some distressing images.
:01:50. > :01:56.When two Sukhoi bombers took off this morning from their base, it had
:01:57. > :01:57.been planned like hundreds of previous sorties. The planes flew
:01:58. > :02:01.north to hit groups, not previous sorties. The planes flew
:02:02. > :02:08.to Turkey's frontier. in northern Syria, were very close
:02:09. > :02:11.to Turkish airspace. Turkish F-16s had taken off
:02:12. > :02:14.from Diyarbakir airbase With
:02:15. > :02:18.the Sukhois turning towards Turkish As the second of the jets dipped
:02:19. > :02:25.into Turkish airspace, for just 17 seconds, covering 1.15
:02:26. > :02:31.miles, one of the F-16s fired a Sidewinder air to air missile
:02:32. > :02:36.that struck the Russian jet at 9.24. It plunged
:02:37. > :02:56.into the ground moments later on a Both pilots ejected. As they floated
:02:57. > :03:00.down, rebels shot at them. Russia's first responses came over social
:03:01. > :03:12.media. They denied that the jets were over Turkey, and said ground
:03:13. > :03:16.fire had brought them down. Even as these denials started to circulate,
:03:17. > :03:31.images were emerging of one of the pilots, filmed by the rebels and
:03:32. > :03:35.presumed dead. Allahu Akbar! Cos British Russia attacked from the air
:03:36. > :03:42.against the operation we started to go. Turkish planes immediately
:03:43. > :03:45.brought down the Russian plane. This is part of the parachute of the
:03:46. > :03:53.plane which fell in Syria. Both pilots were captured dead. Our
:03:54. > :03:57.friends brought them. Our friends fired in the air, we all did. They
:03:58. > :04:02.died in the air. Turkey brought down the Russian plane. After it bombed
:04:03. > :04:05.our region and violated the Turkish the Russian plane. After it bombed
:04:06. > :04:07.border, it was bombed by Turkey. the Russian plane. After it bombed
:04:08. > :04:12.After the crew ejected, a Russian rescue mission went into action,
:04:13. > :04:17.looking for the one pilot that they believed was still alive. At around
:04:18. > :04:22.10.30, a pair of rescue helicopters were seen flying over the Turkmen
:04:23. > :04:28.Mountain crash site. President Putin made his first statement.
:04:29. > :04:32.TRANSLATION: Today's event is a stab in the back that has been given to
:04:33. > :04:37.us by the accomplices of terrorists. In Syria, things were going from bad
:04:38. > :04:42.to worse for the Russians. One of the rescue choppers was forced by
:04:43. > :04:46.rebel fire to make an emergency landing. Using an American supplied
:04:47. > :05:01.missile, the Syrians then destroyed it. A second Russian, one of the
:05:02. > :05:05.rescue party, was killed. By the time Russian TV came on air, there
:05:06. > :05:08.was a clear line that Turkey had deliberately engineered this
:05:09. > :05:12.incident. The presenter said it was intended to harm the anti-IS
:05:13. > :05:18.coalition, and interviewees pointed the finger at Turkey's leaders.
:05:19. > :05:21.TRANSLATION: This was not a spontaneous decision. It wasn't just
:05:22. > :05:25.taken at the tactical military level, it was taken at a political
:05:26. > :05:30.level, because these things have to be decided by the country's
:05:31. > :05:35.leadership. Turkey's air force has been used to send a message. Nato
:05:36. > :05:39.publicly backs its member in defending sovereign airspace, but
:05:40. > :05:45.privately, many allies on the other President Erdogan's escalation.
:05:46. > :05:48.Tonight, he was defiant in defence of the air force and in his support
:05:49. > :05:57.of Syrian Turkmen across the border. TRANSLATION: We are feeling
:05:58. > :06:00.distressed for encountering such and in the incident, but the actions
:06:01. > :06:04.were fully in line with Turkey's rules of engagement that have been
:06:05. > :06:07.declared before. Turkey does not harbour enmity towards its
:06:08. > :06:13.neighbours. Russia this evening said it will fly future strike missions
:06:14. > :06:17.over Syria with fighter escorts ma and has broken off liaison with
:06:18. > :06:20.Turkey. Today's crisis has been managed, just. But another could be
:06:21. > :06:22.around the corner. In a moment, we'll discuss
:06:23. > :06:28.the potential consequences of this, but first to a former Turkish
:06:29. > :06:31.ambassador to Nato, Onur Oymen. When I spoke to him earlier from
:06:32. > :06:34.Istanbul, I started by asking him what he thought of Vladimir Putin
:06:35. > :06:52.calling the shooting down of Russian Well, I believe that is mistaken,
:06:53. > :06:56.because the problem is that it is a sensitive area. In the last two
:06:57. > :07:01.months, there were three violations of Turkish airspace and it is too
:07:02. > :07:12.much. Turkish aircraft acted according to rules. They imposed
:07:13. > :07:13.warnings. The general said, we warned ten times.
:07:14. > :07:17.Each country has to protect its airspace and I remember that
:07:18. > :07:20.some years ago, the Russians shot a Korean civilian commercial
:07:21. > :07:24.aircraft because it was flying in a sensitive security zone.
:07:25. > :07:27.And the Americans have shot down an Iranian passenger plane because
:07:28. > :07:35.Can you tell me why, there seems to be some suggestion
:07:36. > :07:39.that in Turkey, a number of people are quite happy about this action
:07:40. > :07:46.because Turkmen in Syria have been targeted for bombs by the Russians?
:07:47. > :07:54.Turkmen have been living in this area for centuries and
:07:55. > :07:59.in the recent months and weeks, they were attacked by Assad forces
:08:00. > :08:06.and they're fighting Assad forces in the area to protect their villages.
:08:07. > :08:13.I do not believe that it would be appropriate to link
:08:14. > :08:20.So what do you think the impact of this event will be
:08:21. > :08:31.Turkey is also fighting and have detained some Isis members
:08:32. > :08:41.Imagine, we have a 910 kilometres long border with Syria.
:08:42. > :08:49.So we have all the reasons to be extremely careful and we are
:08:50. > :08:52.confident that if the international community work together,
:08:53. > :08:54.then we will find a way to finish with Isis.
:08:55. > :08:56.Nato has called tonight for a de-escalation after this
:08:57. > :09:02.Do you think you can achieve that de-escalation?
:09:03. > :09:13.We have a lot of common interest with Russia,
:09:14. > :09:16.therefore I believe that we can solve this problem and find a way to
:09:17. > :09:24.Thank you very much for joining us tonight.
:09:25. > :09:29.With me now from Washington is Kurt Volker, the former US permanent
:09:30. > :09:32.representative to NATO and from Moscow, Oksana Boyko, a presenter on
:09:33. > :09:50.Oksana Boyko, when Vladimir Putin talks about serious consequences,
:09:51. > :09:56.what is meant by that? I think he is still trying to figure that out. As
:09:57. > :09:59.you pointed out, immediate matters have already been taken and there
:10:00. > :10:05.has been military build-up in the area. From now on, attack our planes
:10:06. > :10:09.will be accompanied by bombers for protection. Russia has also
:10:10. > :10:15.repositioned its cruiser in the Mediterranean Sea. But it is obvious
:10:16. > :10:22.that Russia will have to reassess its relationship with Turkey as well
:10:23. > :10:26.as the Turkish role in this whole nascent coalition to fight Isis. But
:10:27. > :10:32.what exactly will happen is anyone's guess at this point. You talk about
:10:33. > :10:36.the reassessment of relations between Russia and Turkey. I wonder
:10:37. > :10:46.what impact you think this might have on relations between Russia and
:10:47. > :10:52.Nato? Well, we have yet to see that, I guess. The prevalent theory in
:10:53. > :10:58.Moscow is that one of the reasons why Erdogan felt the need to do
:10:59. > :11:01.something like that was to provoke confrontation between Nato and
:11:02. > :11:10.Russia over Syria and provoke Russia into doing his bidding, creating
:11:11. > :11:16.this so-called safe zone in northern Syria where he put, among other
:11:17. > :11:19.things, to clamp down on the Kurdish groups. As far as I know, Washington
:11:20. > :11:27.is still opposed to that because they see Kurds as potential allies
:11:28. > :11:33.in their fight against Isis. But for now, both Nato commanders as well as
:11:34. > :11:40.Nato leaders have been calling on both sides to stay calm. And this is
:11:41. > :11:45.what the Kremlin is trying to do. Kurt Volker, what do you make of
:11:46. > :11:48.Oksana Boyko's analysis? A couple of things. I don't believe that either
:11:49. > :11:53.washer or Turkey has an interest in this escalating into a Russian-
:11:54. > :11:56.Turkish conflict. There will be some hot language and positioning in the
:11:57. > :12:01.next few days. But I don't believe either side wants to have a
:12:02. > :12:11.conflict. I think we will see things stabilise. Secondly, the differences
:12:12. > :12:16.over what should happen next in Syria will persist. Russia will
:12:17. > :12:20.continue to back Assad and to attack rebels fighting Assad, even though
:12:21. > :12:24.they are not Isis. And Turkey will not want to see a sad state in
:12:25. > :12:29.power, but will view Isis as the more critical threat. And I think we
:12:30. > :12:34.will see a play for more European support on Russia's side. We heard
:12:35. > :12:37.some interesting statements from President Hollande on from the
:12:38. > :12:45.German Foreign Minister today, saying that maybe we need to work
:12:46. > :12:50.more closely with Russia. So the irony would be that this is adding
:12:51. > :12:54.to the volatile situation, but Turkey might ironically bring Europe
:12:55. > :13:00.and Russia closer in terms of dealing with Isis? That is right.
:13:01. > :13:04.Seeing a Russian plane downed, nobody wants to see that. We all
:13:05. > :13:11.feel for the pilots, they were just doing their job and now they are
:13:12. > :13:15.dead. That said, seeing a Russian plane shot down will make every
:13:16. > :13:19.European leader want to say, we don't want to see this escalate into
:13:20. > :13:26.a bitter conflict, how do we work with Russia on this? Oksana Boyko,
:13:27. > :13:32.there have been reports, and Nato have said that since October, there
:13:33. > :13:37.have been many violations by Russian planes into Turkish airspace, and we
:13:38. > :13:44.know that Russian aeroplanes often test Nato boundaries. I wonder why
:13:45. > :13:54.this has been happening, what is the purpose of this? Well, that has been
:13:55. > :13:59.happening on all sites. Turkey is itself a frequent violator of other
:14:00. > :14:07.countries 's pace. This summer, it violated Greek airspace around 20
:14:08. > :14:11.times. But there are obviously other ways of dealing with that situation
:14:12. > :14:15.apart from shooting the plane down and killing the pilot. You have also
:14:16. > :14:20.shown to job the pilot's body surrounded by roubles, with them
:14:21. > :14:24.proposing to burn the body. Imagine what would happen to an American or
:14:25. > :14:28.British audience seeing their pilots' bodies being treated in that
:14:29. > :14:31.way. I want to remind you that in Syria, the Americans and the British
:14:32. > :14:37.will be operating without a Syrian mandate. So the Syrian air force has
:14:38. > :14:43.the right to do the same, but of course, I hope they will refrain
:14:44. > :14:50.from that. Coming back to your question, there have been many other
:14:51. > :14:53.means for the Turkish sites to escort the Russian plane out of its
:14:54. > :14:57.airspace if it violated Turkish airspace, which is still debatable.
:14:58. > :15:02.President Obama said earlier today that even American intelligence
:15:03. > :15:08.cannot confirm that. And the Russians deny that. A quick question
:15:09. > :15:11.to both of you. Oksana, there may be a vote in the British Parliament
:15:12. > :15:15.next week on whether the UK should join strikes. In your view, would
:15:16. > :15:24.Britain's involvement in the air over Syria be good or bad?
:15:25. > :15:32.The airspace above Syria is already crowded. The Russians and Americans
:15:33. > :15:36.are there, the Syrians, the French. What we really need at this point is
:15:37. > :15:42.diplomatic support to figure out the rules of engagement to prevent
:15:43. > :15:47.incidents like we had today. I'm not sure in military terms that the UK
:15:48. > :15:52.could add much. But it could do a lot diplomatically. Do you think we
:15:53. > :16:02.should see a British aeroplanes in the skies in Syria? I will agree on
:16:03. > :16:06.this, we do need more coordinated strategy for how to go after Isis.
:16:07. > :16:11.Russia is not really going after Isis, it is backing the President
:16:12. > :16:17.Assad regime which is going to cause more trouble down the line.
:16:18. > :16:24.Including more refugees. If we could pull together a way to go after Isis
:16:25. > :16:31.I think the more capacity we could bring to bear the better. Everyone
:16:32. > :16:38.together, I think Isis is a scourge and dangerous to all of us. We all
:16:39. > :16:41.have professional military is and we can coordinate and avoid these type
:16:42. > :16:45.of incident. Turkey provided a lot of warning to Russia and this is not
:16:46. > :16:50.the first time Russian aeroplanes have violated the airspace in Turkey
:16:51. > :16:54.or with other countries. So I do not expect that to continue, I think
:16:55. > :16:56.Russia will not want to do that. Hopefully this can be a pivot to
:16:57. > :16:59.going after Isis together. You'd have to be living on Mars not
:17:00. > :17:02.to know that tomorrow, the Chancellor
:17:03. > :17:04.will lay out his five year plan in the Spending Review - not least
:17:05. > :17:07.because the House of Lords gave him a bloody nose over his proposal to
:17:08. > :17:09.axe tax credits, leaving him with fewer options to
:17:10. > :17:12.obliterate the deficit by the end of
:17:13. > :17:14.this parliament, a deficit which is George Osborne is planning deep cuts
:17:15. > :17:18.to departments which aren't protected -
:17:19. > :17:21.indeed, the NHS in England and Wales is to get a windfall - but does
:17:22. > :17:24.the real austerity start here? Here's our political editor
:17:25. > :17:36.Allegra Stratton. George Osborne residence is felt all
:17:37. > :17:42.over town right now as he tries to take ?20 billion out of government
:17:43. > :17:46.spending. -- his presence. Tomorrow is his third spending review and
:17:47. > :17:54.possibly his last. His last chance to shape a state in his image before
:17:55. > :17:58.he tries to become leader himself. Over the last six years he has been
:17:59. > :18:01.tagging this government departments, leaving his mark on a series of
:18:02. > :18:06.unprotected departments while political pressures have seen him
:18:07. > :18:12.ring fencing others. International element, NHS, schools, this summer
:18:13. > :18:17.he added defence. We already know much of what he's going to announce.
:18:18. > :18:21.He will increase spending on health service and detect parts of the
:18:22. > :18:25.Department for Education but also more cuts for some other
:18:26. > :18:29.departments. The results of all that is we will see larger cuts to some
:18:30. > :18:33.departments that are left by the Home Office and Department for
:18:34. > :18:37.business, the department that those skills and productivity boosting
:18:38. > :18:41.work. He would have to cut bills by 30% or use of on the pace of cuts.
:18:42. > :18:44.The largest unprotected department is the Department for business and
:18:45. > :18:49.for some time the gossip in Whitehall and even amongst Cabinet
:18:50. > :18:52.ministers is that as the arch free marketeer business secretary Sajid
:18:53. > :18:58.Javid has put forward the most swingeing cuts. 55% cuts to his
:18:59. > :19:01.department has done the rounds as a figure. I am assured by his aides
:19:02. > :19:06.that this is not the case. But you can see the appeal of this. Dig deep
:19:07. > :19:10.in one or a few areas and shield the rest of Whitehall. Just a little
:19:11. > :19:15.bit. The most acute political problem is how to soft and or
:19:16. > :19:18.reverse his tax credit changes. Over at the Home Office he will also have
:19:19. > :19:20.to detail how he is cutting policing was protecting its cousin,
:19:21. > :19:21.counterterrorism. To do this, he may eat into the ?10
:19:22. > :19:25.billion of surplus he planned to If he spends much
:19:26. > :19:30.of the surplus repairing the damage on tax credits, it leaves
:19:31. > :19:33.him little room for manoeuvre What tricks might he have up
:19:34. > :19:45.his sleeve? Will we see charges increase across
:19:46. > :19:50.the public sector, so in a sense we stop using tax funded money going to
:19:51. > :19:54.departments but those departments themselves, though services start
:19:55. > :19:58.charging for their use. We've seen court fees introduced, tuition fees
:19:59. > :20:02.for university 's famously five years ago. Lots of options around
:20:03. > :20:05.that. If George Osborne wants to be Prime Minister at the end of this
:20:06. > :20:10.Parliament, does he need to be more than the Butcher of Whitehall? Of
:20:11. > :20:14.course, he needs to be creating a vision at the same time as cutting
:20:15. > :20:18.the state. But with the idea be? Tomorrow he will tell Parliament he
:20:19. > :20:22.has managed to reform the state alongside reducing its size. But
:20:23. > :20:28.does he need more than that? If I was Chancellor I would make the next
:20:29. > :20:32.leap into the network age. We cannot ever cuts unless we so. Internet
:20:33. > :20:35.gives you the option to do things differently and much better. There
:20:36. > :20:40.is a brilliant example in the Netherlands, the nursing community,
:20:41. > :20:43.they reorganised their model where they had not enough nurses going
:20:44. > :20:48.into homes to care for people and many people doing bureaucracy at the
:20:49. > :20:51.centre. They flip that around and did some basic stuff using the
:20:52. > :20:54.internet as the organising principle. We did some research in
:20:55. > :21:01.the UK to show if we did the same year we would save ?6 billion. This
:21:02. > :21:04.is a matter of extreme urgency. I do not believe we can properly weather
:21:05. > :21:12.the storm that is to come unless we look at these examples extremist
:21:13. > :21:16.seriously. Will it be George Osborne the visionary, painting and primary
:21:17. > :21:21.colours, or the protector or the slayer of public sector waste? Which
:21:22. > :21:23.one of these marks will last the longest?
:21:24. > :21:25.I'm joined now by Isabel Hardman from the Spectator and the
:21:26. > :21:38.What will be the characteristics of George Osborne and his vision of the
:21:39. > :21:43.state after tomorrow? Take a step back and think about what will
:21:44. > :21:47.happen tomorrow. We are halfway through what will be a
:21:48. > :21:51.transformative decade. The UK has come really out of the banking
:21:52. > :21:55.crash, it then staggered through the sharpest spending cuts since the
:21:56. > :22:03.1920s and then George Osborne is going to take the state down to the
:22:04. > :22:08.smallest level since 1948. Smaller than Margaret Thatcher even
:22:09. > :22:13.planned. But there are protected areas, health, defence, education.
:22:14. > :22:18.Those areas will not be reduced. These are massive areas. This is the
:22:19. > :22:22.point at which his mass Brunson 's politics. He wants to do a surplus
:22:23. > :22:27.at the end of the decade. And he also wants to protect big errors are
:22:28. > :22:30.spending so he has to go back to making cuts in the same errors he
:22:31. > :22:35.made cuts in for the past five years. That means cutting the
:22:36. > :22:39.Department for business, the Home Office, the Minister for Justice,
:22:40. > :22:44.local government. Is that the vision you think George Osborne has of the
:22:45. > :22:49.state? I think it is the reality, you have a lopsided state where you
:22:50. > :22:56.have areas protected for political reasons which are not up for debate.
:22:57. > :22:59.So schools for instance. Pre-16 protected, post-16, sixth form
:23:00. > :23:06.colleges, not protected. Social care is not protected. Health is
:23:07. > :23:09.protected so you have people developing acute health problems as
:23:10. > :23:14.a result of cuts in social care funding. But the health budget not
:23:15. > :23:17.up debate. The way you put it it does sound apocalyptic put up but he
:23:18. > :23:22.must have bread that will go down well and
:23:23. > :23:26.where it will go down badly and what the result of political game would
:23:27. > :23:34.be. I do not think the apocalyptic is a good idea. A lot of people made
:23:35. > :23:40.predictions about the effect of the cuts in 2010. But some
:23:41. > :23:40.predictions about the effect of the about. There comes a point at which
:23:41. > :23:46.the about. There comes a point at which
:23:47. > :23:51.if you are ring fencing others. That is the problem, you
:23:52. > :23:53.if you are ring fencing others. That certain areas while saying you have
:23:54. > :23:56.got to cut from others. certain areas while saying you have
:23:57. > :24:00.credits, he was much less certain areas while saying you have
:24:01. > :24:02.sure-footed than it would have been expected and now
:24:03. > :24:05.sure-footed than it would have been reconfigure that. There will
:24:06. > :24:08.sure-footed than it would have been on that tomorrow? The interesting
:24:09. > :24:14.thing about tax credit cuts is it is a demonstration of the kind of
:24:15. > :24:19.thing about tax credit cuts is it is that George Osborne will be forced
:24:20. > :24:23.into more and more over the next few years. If you remember at the start
:24:24. > :24:25.in 2010 he said he would cut tax credit cuts but for the better.
:24:26. > :24:31.in 2010 he said he would cut tax protest. He does it again
:24:32. > :24:35.in 2010 he said he would cut tax but on lower paid people and there
:24:36. > :24:39.is a huge protest. This is what happens when you keep
:24:40. > :24:44.is a huge protest. This is what cuts. What will be the biggest
:24:45. > :24:45.is a huge protest. This is what losers tomorrow? Give us some ideas
:24:46. > :24:50.of the big losers. Local government. losers tomorrow? Give us some ideas
:24:51. > :24:54.Social care and local government. Well looking at this, if this is the
:24:55. > :25:02.manifesto for the Well looking at this, if this is the
:25:03. > :25:06.be Prime Minister, he does not want to be seen as the Butcher but the
:25:07. > :25:07.be Prime Minister, he does not want Britain. What is this meant to say
:25:08. > :25:10.about Britain. What is this meant to say
:25:11. > :25:18.to focus on his vision Britain. What is this meant to say
:25:19. > :25:26.house-building, the living wage, he has to change the tax credits... He
:25:27. > :25:29.pro-business? He has got to show a vision of a chance of a Chancellor
:25:30. > :25:33.who believes in handing things out as well. At the moment he tends to
:25:34. > :25:36.do the handing out announcements dresses ministers tend to do the
:25:37. > :25:41.miserable announcements. You can only sustain loyalty for so long
:25:42. > :25:45.when you keep doing that to business, dashed to ministers. This
:25:46. > :25:50.is a big moment to lay out his vision of what kind of person he
:25:51. > :25:54.would like to preside over. Throughout the past five years there
:25:55. > :25:59.has been an argument over George Osborne, ideologue or pragmatist. Is
:26:00. > :26:03.he just inheriting MS and trying to do is best or does he have a beady
:26:04. > :26:08.eyed vision of state. I do not think he is either, he thinks about the
:26:09. > :26:11.economics of it, I think he is clueless. We should never have been
:26:12. > :26:15.here in the first place, he should have finished his job by now anyway.
:26:16. > :26:22.Instead we have another five years of cuts. The economy, we have this
:26:23. > :26:27.tepid and mediocre growth and people are worse off than before the
:26:28. > :26:32.banking crash. It is unfair to say he is clueless, I think you can make
:26:33. > :26:35.political mistakes as we saw with tax credit cuts. They tend to be
:26:36. > :26:45.when he thinks he's being his most clever. He has not been as clever as
:26:46. > :26:54.he thinks this autumn. Tonight we have the makings of a crisis between
:26:55. > :26:56.Nato and Russia with the downing of a Russian warplanes by Turkish
:26:57. > :27:07.forces. 50 years ago at the height of that
:27:08. > :27:11.conflict it was a US spy plane that That led to the incarcaration
:27:12. > :27:15.of the US pilot Gary Powers and is the setting for Steven
:27:16. > :27:18.Spielberg's new film, Bridge of The film is based on a true story
:27:19. > :27:23.about an American lawyer who went In his only news interview
:27:24. > :27:26.the Oscar-winning director talks divas, Donald Trump and deniable ops
:27:27. > :27:29.with our man we don't You're going to be taking
:27:30. > :27:34.pictures over Soviet territory. Steven Spielberg's new film is
:27:35. > :27:37.a real life Cold War thriller about a downed American U-2 pilot, Gary
:27:38. > :27:40.Powers, and the intrigue involved You're an American,
:27:41. > :27:46.you could well be detained. I had absolutely no idea that
:27:47. > :27:51.this story ever took place. Every American knew that Gary Powers
:27:52. > :27:57.had been shot down and he had been But I did not know
:27:58. > :28:03.about the spy swap or about And we agree to the rules,
:28:04. > :28:13.and that's what makes us Americans. It's all that makes us Americans, so
:28:14. > :28:16.don't tell me there's no rule book. And don't nod at me like that,
:28:17. > :28:19.you son of a bitch. James Donovan, a lawyer who acted
:28:20. > :28:22.as the middleman in the spy swap, is played by Tom Hanks
:28:23. > :28:25.as an all-American family man. Tom Hanks is the kind
:28:26. > :28:38.of moral centre of the film. Some perhaps slightly unkind people
:28:39. > :28:41.have said he's a little too Well, there is no story without, you
:28:42. > :28:46.know, the character that he plays. And the character he plays,
:28:47. > :28:49.he's never quite played anyone I mean, Tom has played, you know,
:28:50. > :28:53.men of principle But he has never played this kind
:28:54. > :29:00.of a ruffian, this kind Have you represented
:29:01. > :29:04.many accused spies? This will be a first for the both
:29:05. > :29:06.of us. Where Mark Rylance got involved, I
:29:07. > :29:12.saw Twelfth Night, and Jerusalem, and
:29:13. > :29:16.was a huge fan of him in theatre. I had offered him Empire Of The Sun
:29:17. > :29:20.when he was 23 years old to play one of the principal characters,
:29:21. > :29:22.and he turned me down! He chose theatre over film
:29:23. > :29:24.in the late '80s. I just simply said,
:29:25. > :29:37.I'm going to try a second time to see
:29:38. > :29:39.if he would play Rudolf Abel. Is there any outcome here where I'm
:29:40. > :29:43.not either detained or shot? The next mistake our countries
:29:44. > :29:49.make could be the last one. Now, a contemporary audience will
:29:50. > :29:52.see this, it's about the Cold War, but they may well be thinking
:29:53. > :29:56.of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, Have you told that story via
:29:57. > :30:03.the back door, as it were? No, I came through the front door
:30:04. > :30:06.on this movie, and I told all The back door story,
:30:07. > :30:11.I absolutely acknowledge that there are all kinds of relevant parallels
:30:12. > :30:14.to things that are happening today I certainly, you know, can't avoid
:30:15. > :30:19.the fact that we are spying on each other, we're cyberspying on
:30:20. > :30:23.each other more than ever before. You know, there's all kinds of drone
:30:24. > :30:28.overflights taking place today. There were U-2 overflights
:30:29. > :30:31.taking place in the '50s and '60s. So there's a lot of parallels and
:30:32. > :30:35.in a sense, all that made this story more relevant for me
:30:36. > :30:37.in the current context, but didn't convince me to direct
:30:38. > :30:42.it because there was relevance. What convinced me to direct it was,
:30:43. > :30:49.it's just a bloody good story! In the name of God,
:30:50. > :30:52.why aren't we hanging him? Are you comfortable with America's
:30:53. > :30:58.role in the world, the surveillance There was no real, you know,
:30:59. > :31:07.message in Bridge of Spies I didn't make the movie to push
:31:08. > :31:17.my own political agenda out there, because my politics are
:31:18. > :31:22.subliminal through my work. I did it more with Schindler's List,
:31:23. > :31:26.you know. Who I was was relevant, at least what I believed in
:31:27. > :31:31.and how strongly I felt. That came through in
:31:32. > :31:34.Schindler's List. File a grievance with
:31:35. > :31:47.the economic office. A big shot from the SS budget
:31:48. > :31:56.and construction office came to lunch and he told us that to believe
:31:57. > :32:00.a Jewish worker had a place in Reich economics was
:32:01. > :32:05.a treasonable idea. If you have a political agenda,
:32:06. > :32:09.and you really want to turn some heads and change some hearts
:32:10. > :32:11.and minds to believe in the direction you're believing,
:32:12. > :32:16.television is the greatest, you know, conduit for that
:32:17. > :32:20.because it reaches more people. You're not just talking
:32:21. > :32:23.about our show there, are you?! Will you be festooning your Chevy
:32:24. > :32:32.with Donald Trump bumper stickers, What does that mean,
:32:33. > :32:38.festooning my Chevy? I didn't imagine you ran
:32:39. > :32:47.an old pick-up! But what about the Donald,
:32:48. > :32:50.as people persist in calling him? There's a future biopic there,
:32:51. > :32:53.if nothing else, isn't there? I think what will determine the
:32:54. > :33:00.viability and the commerciality of What would you say about
:33:01. > :33:08.the outcome, where's your money? History will tell us what
:33:09. > :33:11.the outcome is. I'm not going to take a position
:33:12. > :33:16.on that right now, except that everybody knows I am
:33:17. > :33:19.a supporter of Hillary Clinton. This is the BBC, an organ of record,
:33:20. > :33:22.so here you can speak freely about the actor who has been
:33:23. > :33:25.the biggest... who has given you the most issues
:33:26. > :33:28.on set. Sharks have given me a big issue
:33:29. > :33:33.on set. Well, actually,
:33:34. > :33:37.you have answered my own question. That's
:33:38. > :33:48.the best answer to that question. The shark broke down because
:33:49. > :33:52.of mechanical problems actually And I just went ahead and made the
:33:53. > :33:59.movie anyway, using the ocean as the I think it cranked up the suspense
:34:00. > :34:04.a lot more. That shark was a
:34:05. > :34:07.complete prima donna! And just would not come out
:34:08. > :34:09.of its dressing room. Its dressing room happened to be
:34:10. > :34:11.the Atlantic Ocean. But we could not get
:34:12. > :34:16.the shark to make an appearance. And I think in a sense,
:34:17. > :34:19.because the shark didn't show up, the shark's no-show saved
:34:20. > :34:20.the movie. when the world's nations gather
:34:21. > :34:30.in Paris next week to thrash out a deal to tackle climate change,
:34:31. > :34:33.in the bank already will be the pledges of around 150 countries
:34:34. > :34:36.on what they are willing to do to It's evidence that at last, things
:34:37. > :34:41.appear to be moving in the direction Our environment analyst
:34:42. > :34:45.Roger Harrabin has been to see how one of the world's poorest countries
:34:46. > :34:48.- Malawi - is offering to play its part in the climate battle
:34:49. > :34:51.by getting renewable energy and reducing deforestation,
:34:52. > :34:53.on condition that rich countries Nine out of ten of people in Malawi
:34:54. > :35:05.have no electricity. He sells the charcoal almost all
:35:06. > :35:20.people here use for cooking. William says he doesn't want to be
:35:21. > :35:37.doing this for a living, She grubs in the dirt
:35:38. > :35:49.for fragments of charcoal to sell. Malawi's carbon emissions
:35:50. > :35:51.from fossil fuel burning are tiny. But bare hills are the result
:35:52. > :35:58.of the charcoal trade. And that is heating
:35:59. > :36:05.the local climate. And soil flushing
:36:06. > :36:08.off deforested hills is also choking That in turn is
:36:09. > :36:15.the country's prime energy supply. Dams like this make 95% of Malawi's
:36:16. > :36:28.electricity. It is one of the cleanest
:36:29. > :36:35.power systems in the world. But silt and debris have shrunk
:36:36. > :36:37.reservoir capacity by two thirds, Man-made problems here are
:36:38. > :36:47.compounded by climate change. So the rains recently have
:36:48. > :36:50.been low and erratic. But back in February,
:36:51. > :36:52.devastating floods strewed debris Like many developing countries,
:36:53. > :36:58.Malawi is in a bind. Suffering already
:36:59. > :37:10.from changing climate, This cooking oil factory is
:37:11. > :37:13.a major employer. But it has suffered from regular
:37:14. > :37:26.blackouts, until industry was Elsewhere, this might be thought
:37:27. > :37:29.a good green solution. But here, it risks even
:37:30. > :37:31.greater deforestation. Some environmentalists in the West,
:37:32. > :37:41.in the UK and America, say we should be getting out of coal, we
:37:42. > :37:44.should not be burning any more coal. Yes, probably, we should not
:37:45. > :37:53.be. But what is the alternative that we
:37:54. > :37:56.could use and run our factories? What is the alternative, what do
:37:57. > :37:59.you suggest we should be doing? Should we be closing
:38:00. > :38:00.down productions There should be some kind
:38:01. > :38:07.of alternate energy source that we If I'm using firewood or I'm using
:38:08. > :38:13.coal, I don't think it makes much Malawi is one
:38:14. > :38:19.of 150 nations pledging to but only
:38:20. > :38:30.if rich nations help to pay. And it says whatever Western
:38:31. > :38:33.environmentalists might think, it also needs two new coal-fired
:38:34. > :38:40.power stations. The Malawi government
:38:41. > :38:43.is still developing. As a developing country, we still
:38:44. > :38:45.need a lot So the government has decided we
:38:46. > :38:49.still need to go We do realise it is one of the
:38:50. > :39:09.main sources of emissions globally. A welcome song to
:39:10. > :39:12.a village that is pioneering simple technology to reduce the destructive
:39:13. > :39:20.demand for wood fuel. They are not the most efficient
:39:21. > :39:26.on the global market, but they are creating jobs
:39:27. > :39:33.and keeping costs down. But at the same time,
:39:34. > :39:38.we have huge deforestation. We therefore need to develop
:39:39. > :39:44.better innovative and sustainable Bolted onto a cook stove,
:39:45. > :39:59.this is a thermoelectric generator. Developed with Irish
:40:00. > :40:03.government funding. Creating a temperature differential
:40:04. > :40:06.between two sheets of metal makes enough electricity to charge a light
:40:07. > :40:11.or phone when you're cooking. And in the darkness, British
:40:12. > :40:21.aid is casting a little light. Six-year-old Rachel's school grades
:40:22. > :40:25.have improved But here is a reality check -
:40:26. > :40:34.most people here can't afford the ?5 lamps
:40:35. > :40:36.and whatever happens in climate negotiations, countless families
:40:37. > :40:53.will still face a mighty challenge Just time for tomorrow's front
:40:54. > :40:59.pages. They all have the dramatic picture of the Russian jet coming
:41:00. > :41:07.down after being hit by the F-16. That is the Independent. Then the
:41:08. > :41:11.Guardian, with two of the Syrian refugees on the front page. And the
:41:12. > :41:16.Times has the parachute of one of the pilots. And looking forward to
:41:17. > :41:24.tomorrow's spending review, the Daily Telegraph. A second SNP MP
:41:25. > :41:28.quits amid inquiry. And the Financial Times, house-building
:41:29. > :41:30.drive at the heart of Osborne was Mike plan.
:41:31. > :41:49.That's all we have time for - good night.
:41:50. > :41:59.Good evening. A split through the rest of the week. Outbreaks of rain
:42:00. > :42:07.and Judy start to the day. But some sunshine. Rain drifting a little
:42:08. > :42:08.further east. Quite mild and 10 degrees but still cloudy for the