27/11/2015

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:00:08. > :00:14.Tonight on Newsnight another conservative activist beak out about

:00:15. > :00:17.the alleged bullying he faced at the hands of Mark Clark, is it credible

:00:18. > :00:21.to believe those at the top of the party knew nothing? We hear from the

:00:22. > :00:25.father of a young man who took his own life having complained of his

:00:26. > :00:29.experiences with Mark Clarke. I think Mark Clarke was allowed to

:00:30. > :00:33.carry on the way he was because he was being protected by people within

:00:34. > :00:39.CCHQ and people were pulling his strings. Jeremy Corbyn reaches past

:00:40. > :00:45.his MPs and asks Labour members what to do, is this new politics or is

:00:46. > :00:50.the party now a pressure group? By undercutting his Shadow Cabinet want

:00:51. > :00:58.senior leader MP told me this was the beginning of the Corbyn cool. --

:00:59. > :01:03.Labour MP. The Labour's wells in Westminster be felt in Oldham? The

:01:04. > :01:07.voters of Oldham go to the polls next Thursday, the question is, will

:01:08. > :01:11.Jeremy Corbyn be getting an early Christmas present or will he find a

:01:12. > :01:19.lump of coal in his sock? A Conservative MP and historian

:01:20. > :01:25.looks at the artistic legacy of Empire. By looking at the British

:01:26. > :01:28.Empire through the prism of cultural one can feel what it was like to be

:01:29. > :01:34.part of the largest empire the world has ever known.

:01:35. > :01:38.How much did those at the top of the Conservative Party

:01:39. > :01:44.know of the behaviour of an alleged serial bully in their midst?

:01:45. > :01:49.The party has insisted it wasn't aware of serious accusations against

:01:50. > :01:51.Mark Clarke until weeks before a young activist Elliott Johnson took

:01:52. > :01:55.his own life - having previously complained he was bullied by Clarke.

:01:56. > :01:58.Tonight the party's position looks increasingly under pressure.

:01:59. > :02:02.The former party Chair, Sayeeda Warsi, has revealed she wrote to her

:02:03. > :02:04.successor, Grant Shapps, eight months ago - complaining

:02:05. > :02:11.about Clarke and demanding action be taken against him.

:02:12. > :02:13.Tonight, we hear from another man who says he

:02:14. > :02:16.complained about Clarke's bullying back in 2014 - to no effect.

:02:17. > :02:19.We'll be talking to Ray Johnson about his son's suicide in a moment.

:02:20. > :02:30.First, the latest from James Clayton.

:02:31. > :02:35.The Conservative bullying scandal is now planted firmly on the doorstep

:02:36. > :02:42.of this building, Conservative Party headquarters. Allegations of

:02:43. > :02:46.bullying, sexual harassment and blackmail by the former Conservative

:02:47. > :02:51.activist Mark Clarke have been splashed across the nation's front

:02:52. > :02:56.pages. Last week the Newsnight investigation heard from Ben Howlett

:02:57. > :03:04.MP, he said he'd raised bullying allegations with Grant Shapps and

:03:05. > :03:07.Lord Feldman as early as 2010. Five years before the suicide of Elliot

:03:08. > :03:13.Johnson catapulted the murder accusations into the public domain.

:03:14. > :03:18.That Newsnight report prompted the response from CCHQ that the current

:03:19. > :03:24.chairman, Lord Feldman had been wholly unaware of Clarke's William

:03:25. > :03:28.for a tranche of formal complaint had been received in August of this

:03:29. > :03:33.year. A spokesman told us, we've been checking and checking again,

:03:34. > :03:37.but we haven't found any records of complaints that were made that

:03:38. > :03:41.weren't dealt with, but we are determined to get to the bottom of

:03:42. > :03:45.what has happened. How exhaustive have these checks been? Newsnight

:03:46. > :03:51.has had a look at how CCHQ has dealt with some of the complaints made

:03:52. > :03:54.over the last five years. They show, at best, incompetence by

:03:55. > :03:58.Conservative Central office, and at worst, an attempt to conceal how

:03:59. > :04:04.much senior Conservatives knew about Clarke. Over the last week it has

:04:05. > :04:09.emerged that warnings about Clarke stretched back as far as 2010.

:04:10. > :04:13.Newsnight disclosed the official candidate report on Clarke included

:04:14. > :04:20.detail of aggressive behaviour bordering on violence. Tonight

:04:21. > :04:24.Newsnight has learned the then Tory chair, as well as Lord Feldman, were

:04:25. > :04:29.handed a written account of an incident in which Clarke allegedly

:04:30. > :04:34.threatened to destroy the career of Ben Howlett, the then chair of the

:04:35. > :04:39.Tory youth wing Conservative future. Now MP for Bath, Ben Howlett

:04:40. > :04:42.wouldn't comment on the account, an activist who saw it said it was one

:04:43. > :04:48.of the series of allegations of bullying. Lord Feldman allegedly

:04:49. > :04:52.said at the time the matter would be taken seriously. Clarke denies all

:04:53. > :04:56.allegations of bullying. Today it emerged another complaint had been

:04:57. > :05:05.made about Mark Clarke to CCHQ, before the official internal inquiry

:05:06. > :05:08.in August. Baroness Warsi was the complaint tick complainant. She

:05:09. > :05:12.handed a letter she had sent to Grant Shapps to the Guardian

:05:13. > :05:17.newspaper. It cites a tweet by Mark Clarke that implies Aaron Swazi had

:05:18. > :05:25.offended a Jewish member of a local Conservative Party. She claims

:05:26. > :05:27.unfairly. Baroness Warsi said she received allegations of

:05:28. > :05:35.anti-Semitism as a result. She asks Grant Shapps what action she intends

:05:36. > :05:41.to take against Mr Clarke, she plans the matter wasn't properly handled.

:05:42. > :05:43.Mark Clarke contradicts this description of events, claiming

:05:44. > :05:49.Baroness Warsi has a personal vendetta against him. Six months

:05:50. > :05:53.before the letter in summer 2014, a Young Conservative activist who had

:05:54. > :05:58.been on a number of road trips was threatened with political ruin by

:05:59. > :06:03.Clarke. Clarke told him he would never work at CCHQ and if he tried

:06:04. > :06:06.to ever get a job with an MBE, Clarke would personally intervened

:06:07. > :06:16.to prevent such promotion. -- with an MP. He wrote that Clarke had

:06:17. > :06:19.threatened to ruin him, attending to damage my reputation, trying to

:06:20. > :06:24.remove me from politics, he said. The Conservative employee sent a

:06:25. > :06:26.response, saying, height, are you content if I shared your e-mail with

:06:27. > :06:34.other colleagues? I was hoping to hear somebody

:06:35. > :06:37.telling me how to move forward, how to get past it, what options I had

:06:38. > :06:44.in terms of making a complaint, speaking to someone about to

:06:45. > :06:47.overcome the and problems I had had. But there was nothing and it was

:06:48. > :06:52.just very disappointing, I think, and upsetting. Newsnight knows of

:06:53. > :06:59.other complaints made to CCHQ in 2014. In a statement given to us to

:07:00. > :07:00.night, a Conservative spokesman said that an investigation is currently

:07:01. > :07:08.underway... Ray Johnson, the father of Elliot

:07:09. > :07:17.Johnson who took his own life, I began by asking him if, after

:07:18. > :07:19.fighting for nine weeks to get his son's story heard he felt like

:07:20. > :07:21.things were starting to change. Things have been changing day

:07:22. > :07:23.by day, week by week, I think, from when we first heard of

:07:24. > :07:29.Elliott's unfortunate tragic death. We couldn't get to grips

:07:30. > :07:33.with what had happened. But within a few days evidence

:07:34. > :07:35.started to appear that suggested something was

:07:36. > :07:41.untoward, very untoward. And we picked up the story and

:07:42. > :07:44.decided we had to dig deeper because we weren't getting any answers out

:07:45. > :07:48.of Conservative Central office. And we needed to find out what

:07:49. > :07:51.the truth was behind Elliott's death As events unfolded over the days

:07:52. > :08:07.and weeks, it became sort of like a quagmire, almost like dry rot,

:08:08. > :08:09.affecting the Conservative Party in many ways with many people being

:08:10. > :08:13.affected adversely and other people who were doing the bullying and

:08:14. > :08:15.intimidation. It became very clear By what Mike Clark and people

:08:16. > :08:32.were doing in the Conservative Those at the top

:08:33. > :08:36.of the Tory party say they were wholly unaware, they said they had

:08:37. > :08:55.checked and checked again Why do you think that was? I think

:08:56. > :08:57.Mark Clarke was allowed to carry on the way he was because he was being

:08:58. > :09:00.protected by people within CCHQ. He was getting the results they

:09:01. > :09:04.wanted leading up to the general Because of that they were quite

:09:05. > :09:17.happy to overlook what he was doing. In some respects it's too late

:09:18. > :09:22.for some of the young activists who have been

:09:23. > :09:25.badly treated by the Conservative But what needs to be done now, CCHQ,

:09:26. > :09:30.and I think it's endemic in other political parties too,

:09:31. > :09:33.they really need to look at their practices and processes and make

:09:34. > :09:35.sure that when young activists... Because they are young people,

:09:36. > :09:37.we're talking about some of these activists may be 16,

:09:38. > :09:43.17 years old, they are youngsters. They've been managed and manipulated

:09:44. > :09:46.by people in their 30s. We have to make sure that

:09:47. > :09:52.when these young people make By sweeping their issues under

:09:53. > :09:58.the carpet and ignoring their complaints doesn't solve problems

:09:59. > :10:03.for them, it makes things worse. Grant Shapps was the one who brought

:10:04. > :10:08.Mark Clark back into the fold in 2014, what do you think should

:10:09. > :10:10.happen to Grant Shapps now? Grant Shapps has to look to

:10:11. > :10:13.his position. It's undoubtedly true that he

:10:14. > :10:26.knew was going on, I think. They are conducting an inquiry at

:10:27. > :10:30.the moment, do you have the confidence that will get to the

:10:31. > :10:35.bottom of this quiz, absolutely not, I can't see how the inquiry will

:10:36. > :10:37.have any voracity at all. I wrote to Lord Feldman I heard they were

:10:38. > :10:45.conducting their own internal enquiry. Headed by another

:10:46. > :10:51.Conservative insider. And inquiry won by themselves... Without

:10:52. > :10:56.independent oversight can't possibly be considered to be valid. -- run by

:10:57. > :11:01.themselves. I put it to Lord Feldman this would be another cover-up. Are

:11:02. > :11:07.you surprised this was allowed to happen in a mainstream political

:11:08. > :11:11.party? I'm shocked, you know, these people are effectively the lawmakers

:11:12. > :11:15.in this country, they pass laws to ensure people are protected from

:11:16. > :11:20.bullying and harassment in the workplace, yet they seem to feel

:11:21. > :11:24.they are above the law and they can continue in a way that must be

:11:25. > :11:28.endemic within the political party process in this country. You were

:11:29. > :11:32.worried about Elliott going into politics? I was concerned, I thought

:11:33. > :11:39.getting involved in politics is one thing, it might not be a long-term

:11:40. > :11:44.career. I did say on many occasions to Elliott, quite often the bottom

:11:45. > :11:51.line would always be, get a proper job. I was keen for him to get a

:11:52. > :11:54.career outside of politics. As he developed and matured, as his skill

:11:55. > :12:00.sets grew, he could come back into politics. And take it from there.

:12:01. > :12:05.But I must also say when he came back to us in early June of this

:12:06. > :12:09.year, and told us, announced to us, I suppose, he'd been offered a job

:12:10. > :12:16.as a political editor, I was very proud. How does it feel for you now

:12:17. > :12:21.to be thrown into the spotlight? You've turned detective in a way,

:12:22. > :12:25.trying to figure out what happened. It's changed our lives, it will do

:12:26. > :12:33.for ever, we lost our son, he was a wonderful chap. Lots of potential,

:12:34. > :12:41.lots of friends. It all seems it is all to zero, in some respects. I'm

:12:42. > :12:44.not the sort of person who would put it to one side and forget about it,

:12:45. > :12:48.I want to get to the bottom of what happened to my son and I will fight

:12:49. > :12:51.for his cause, fight for justice for him and the other activist. As the

:12:52. > :12:56.days and weeks pass, I've realised many more youngsters were coming out

:12:57. > :13:00.of the woodwork and saying they had also complained and nothing had been

:13:01. > :13:04.done. This fight is for Elliott and his friends, many were his friends,

:13:05. > :13:12.who have been intimidated, harassed, blackmailed, subjugated to sexual

:13:13. > :13:19.abuse for a long time. Ray Johnson, thank you very much. Thank you.

:13:20. > :13:25.Tonight, inevitably perhaps, came the first calls for

:13:26. > :13:28.Jeremy Corbyn to quit as Labour Leader after some of his MPs

:13:29. > :13:31.felt he was unable to contain the splits emerging in his party.

:13:32. > :13:33.Mr Corbyn had given the parliamentary party until Monday

:13:34. > :13:37.evening to decide whether to back air strikes in Syria - but two hours

:13:38. > :13:40.ago he sent out an email to party members which appeared to bypass his

:13:41. > :13:43.own MPS and speak - almost in the manner of a plebiscite

:13:44. > :13:46.He's asking them if they back airtstrikes in Syria

:13:47. > :13:49.and has asked them for their reply by early next week.

:13:50. > :13:55.Here's our political editor Allegra Stratton.

:13:56. > :14:02.It has been an extraordinary day in the history of the party. Hmm, mad.

:14:03. > :14:09.Two Labour MPs called on Jeremy Corbyn to go. Quite mild mannered

:14:10. > :14:14.characters. The reason for their deep upset, they feel activities

:14:15. > :14:17.yesterday. So you had the meeting of the Shadow Cabinet, people felt it

:14:18. > :14:23.was a mature process and you had an e-mail from the leader saying that

:14:24. > :14:29.this was his view and he believed the air strikes should be opposed.

:14:30. > :14:34.The Shadow Cabinet felt it was disrespectful to the meeting and

:14:35. > :14:39.they hadn't reached a conclusion. Now, what has happened tonight is

:14:40. > :14:45.another ploy, this direct e-mail trying to find out from members what

:14:46. > :14:48.their opinion is and Jeremy Corbyn would like to hear back by next

:14:49. > :14:53.week, ahead of the Parliamentary vote. This is in the view of many

:14:54. > :14:58.people that I have spoken to another way of undercutting the view of the

:14:59. > :15:02.Shadow Cabinet. My view, speaking to people today, is they will end up

:15:03. > :15:07.having to have a free vote. That is where they will get to. The two

:15:08. > :15:10.extreme positions are mental and cannot happen and they would lead to

:15:11. > :15:15.chaos. One thought on the particular thing about the free vote is David

:15:16. > :15:19.Cameron has said he won't bring it to Parliament unless he is certain

:15:20. > :15:24.he will win it. If Labour has a free vote, it is unclear which way the

:15:25. > :15:29.numbers fall. This is not just about Syria, now it is about the Syria

:15:30. > :15:32.vote, but it is about leadership. In the last few months I have talked to

:15:33. > :15:38.people about what happens when you have a leader who thinks one thing

:15:39. > :15:43.on a variety of issue, his party disagrees, but the wider membership

:15:44. > :15:49.agree. They have said what will happen is we will have a series of

:15:50. > :15:57.direct polls. We seeing what one described as the Jeremy Corbyn coup

:15:58. > :16:04.and you ignore the cabinet and keep asking these things. One more thing

:16:05. > :16:08.is the front of The Times that we have been told about, Labour

:16:09. > :16:11.opponents of Jeremy Corbyn have consulted lawyers about the

:16:12. > :16:16.following, which is for a long time people have felt they can't mount a

:16:17. > :16:20.challenge to Jeremy Corbyn because he would be allowed to stand in any

:16:21. > :16:25.contest and roll over. So there would be no point in mounting a

:16:26. > :16:29.challenge and he come back with a bigger mandate. Labour's lawyers

:16:30. > :16:35.have told Labour opponents of Jeremy Corbyn that is not the case, that he

:16:36. > :16:40.would not automatically get another xhans and that emboldens the people

:16:41. > :16:45.who think this can't go on. The secret bid to joust Jeremy Corbyn.

:16:46. > :16:48.My sources had been saying that the earliest anybody could move against

:16:49. > :16:53.Jeremy Corbyn was after May's election. Now, I'm hearing from

:16:54. > :16:59.people who say it could be as early as after the result of next

:17:00. > :17:07.Thursday's Oldham by-election. That takes us Toon interesting point.

:17:08. > :17:09.Of course, it's the parliamentary Labour Party

:17:10. > :17:13.that gets to vote on the issue of whether and how to go to war.

:17:14. > :17:16.But if Jeremy Corbyn is right, then much of the party - away from

:17:17. > :17:19.Westminster - would actually support HIS reluctance in this call to arms.

:17:20. > :17:22.He will face his first electoral test in the shape of a

:17:23. > :17:26.John Sweeney went there to test the political water and see what

:17:27. > :17:32.the people of Oldham feel about Labour's fortunes right now.

:17:33. > :17:44.The nation is on the edge of going to war. The security of the Middle

:17:45. > :17:53.East and Europe is at issue. In the making of an MP, all politics is

:17:54. > :17:58.local. Welcome to not so sunny Oldham. There is a by-election next

:17:59. > :18:03.week and it is interesting, it is Jeremy Corbyn's first test as leader

:18:04. > :18:08.of the Labour Party. It is also whether Westminster bubble collides

:18:09. > :18:14.with ordinary British life. Oldham west was one of the safest Labour

:18:15. > :18:21.seats in the country. Not any more. This time you will vote Ukip why?

:18:22. > :18:31.Because of the... Just the country on a whole. I think they're letting

:18:32. > :18:35.too many refugees in. Around the corner from Ukip's campaign HQ,

:18:36. > :18:40.support seems strong. Are you concerned about Jeremy Corbyn's line

:18:41. > :18:45.on Isis and suicide bombers and shoot-to-kill? Yes. I think the only

:18:46. > :18:54.way to deal with people like that is like with like. You know, no

:18:55. > :19:00.apeacement. Ukip's contender is John Bickley. Will you win? Why not? We

:19:01. > :19:05.shouldn't be at the races here, neither should anyone else it has

:19:06. > :19:11.been a Labour heart lapd for 70 years. Jeremy Corbyn is toxic here.

:19:12. > :19:19.Something is going on in Labour heartland they feel betrayed by the

:19:20. > :19:25.Labour Party. You get elected, do we, o' do the British bomb Isil in

:19:26. > :19:29.Syria? How would you vote? Well I would find out what my leadership is

:19:30. > :19:34.considering to do. We have learned our lessons that in the Middle East

:19:35. > :19:39.what looked to be the right idea has turned into something bad. Isil

:19:40. > :19:42.arguably have been able to use the west's intervention in Iraq and

:19:43. > :19:47.Afghanistan as a recruiting sergeant. This sounds a bit

:19:48. > :19:55.wishy-washy to me. Where does Ukip stand? I said to be fair, it is

:19:56. > :19:59.above my pay grade. Mr Cars Well and my leader will issue a formal

:20:00. > :20:09.statement about our response. I will remember my position in the high

:20:10. > :20:14.arky and defer to them. I'm the Conservative candidate. I won't be

:20:15. > :20:17.voting Conservative. That is not a problem. Can I leave this? No Thank

:20:18. > :20:44.you for opening the door. Goodbye. Am I trying to find somebody that is

:20:45. > :20:48.in or just knocking on at doors. Blue anorak thing, canvas shoes. Is

:20:49. > :21:00.this the look of a want to be Conservative MP? This I my look. For

:21:01. > :21:04.good or for bad. The man is James Daley, the Tories came third last

:21:05. > :21:11.time. Are you worried and Ukip. I want to help people and solve local

:21:12. > :21:17.problems. If is that your motivation, what is what my mind is

:21:18. > :21:21.concentrating on. Other parties will do what they want to do. I want to

:21:22. > :21:24.say there is somebody here with a plan and who is representing those

:21:25. > :21:29.issues and is concerned about those issues that mat tore you. If you

:21:30. > :21:37.with are like me, I will act upon them. Labour's champ Jim McMahon

:21:38. > :21:42.went to Labour college. A safe place for him to canvas you would think.

:21:43. > :21:48.Hello you naughty smoker, who do you think will win? Ukip from what is

:21:49. > :21:56.happening with Isis, what they're saying seems to be right. Ukip.

:21:57. > :22:06.Possibly Ukip. I was lucky to get an apprenticeship as a technician

:22:07. > :22:12.sl... . Have you a copy of chairman Mao's book. No but I have the Oldham

:22:13. > :22:17.Tories guide. You supported Liz McKendal as leader. I haven't told

:22:18. > :22:24.anybody I voted for. I voted for every candidate. Was Jeremy Corbyn

:22:25. > :22:28.your No 1 choice. I like you a lot, but this is a new relationship. You

:22:29. > :22:32.have to appreciate my point of view. Jeremy Corbyn is the leader and

:22:33. > :22:36.providing a new sense of what politics should be and he is a man

:22:37. > :22:41.of conviction. Would you vote in favour of bombing Isis? I'm clear

:22:42. > :22:45.that the fundamental responsibility of government is to look after the

:22:46. > :22:51.well being and safety of its sit zeps. I -- citizens. The bar has to

:22:52. > :22:54.be high for the right reasons. The weight of military carries a massive

:22:55. > :23:01.responsibility to make sure we use it in the right way. The Liberal

:23:02. > :23:06.Democrats lost their deposit at the general election. We couldn't seek

:23:07. > :23:12.to their candidate, but this MP who had just been out canvassing People

:23:13. > :23:19.are saying they have been Labour, but don't like Jeremy Corbyn. Seeing

:23:20. > :23:23.the chaos there is with his own Shadow Cabinet walking out when he

:23:24. > :23:26.speaks in Parliament. Quite extraordinary stuff. But again

:23:27. > :23:31.they're looking for an alternative and the people that are saying

:23:32. > :23:42.they're coming forward in that role is the Liberal Democrat's candidate.

:23:43. > :23:47.Newsnight best guess is that local lad gym McMahon will squeak home for

:23:48. > :23:52.Labour with a reduced majority. But it is possible that Labour could

:23:53. > :23:59.lose here. The voters of Oldham go to the polls next week and the

:24:00. > :24:03.question is will Jeremy Corbyn be getting an early Christmas present

:24:04. > :24:09.or will he find a lump of coal in his sock? Five, four, three, two,

:24:10. > :24:15.one! So will tonight be seen

:24:16. > :24:19.as a key turning point for labour? The night

:24:20. > :24:21.the party proved it wasn't scared of a new kind of politics in which

:24:22. > :24:24.members, not members of Parliament Or is it now in danger of writing

:24:25. > :24:32.itself off as a pressure group that looks in danger of falling apart -

:24:33. > :24:35.under the first sign of pressure. Joining me now Shelley Asquith,

:24:36. > :24:37.Corbyn supporter and campaigner, Phil Collins,

:24:38. > :24:48.former Blair Speechwriter, Sorry Shelley Asquith is stuck in

:24:49. > :24:53.traffic. First this e-mail. Gavin, is it good to be reaching not just

:24:54. > :24:57.to his MPs, but to all those who have put him where he is now? Yes,

:24:58. > :25:01.the only problem, of course we know what Jeremy Corbyn's position is and

:25:02. > :25:06.the consultation won't change that. I think the concern will be that

:25:07. > :25:12.consultation is trying to change the minds of people who on a matter of

:25:13. > :25:16.principle can't see eye to eye. I would oppose military intervention,

:25:17. > :25:21.but I think it is frankly untenable that we as a party can't express a

:25:22. > :25:26.collective view on the issue. But an interesting perspective for somebody

:25:27. > :25:31.who stay, yes, in this politic, I ask for Labour members not just the

:25:32. > :25:35.MPs there is something in that? Jeremy Corbyn has two claims on the

:25:36. > :25:40.Labour Party. First he is a man of principle and he has a clear view on

:25:41. > :25:44.war. But that contradicts the other claim he has on the Labour Party

:25:45. > :25:49.that we are going to have a big heated debate, because what happens

:25:50. > :25:52.if that heated debate brings out something that contradicts your

:25:53. > :25:57.principle. You can't hold both at the same time. He is finding this

:25:58. > :26:01.contradiction, because he has entered politics for the first time,

:26:02. > :26:04.is starting to tell on him and he has to come to a decision otherwise

:26:05. > :26:09.the Labour Party will end up with no position on the question. There is a

:26:10. > :26:14.possibility that the voices of Shadow Cabinet are overshadowing

:26:15. > :26:20.other MPs like Gavin who doesn't support the air strikes. You don't

:26:21. > :26:25.think you're one of ten, but 50%. Yes in politics you have to command

:26:26. > :26:33.the support of the people your leading and my own view is that we

:26:34. > :26:37.would be better to face up we have a fundamental disagreement in an area

:26:38. > :26:40.where there is a history of people disagreeing and going when they have

:26:41. > :26:47.to and facing up to people and being honest. That means whip it, say we

:26:48. > :26:54.are not going to support the air strikes, and then what? Face the

:26:55. > :26:57.resignations? Yes or abstentions of some of the front bench. This has

:26:58. > :27:01.been coming for a long time. There are a number of disagreements and

:27:02. > :27:07.Jeremy Corbyn needs to commands the support of the people around him or

:27:08. > :27:11.we will be nowhere. I think they will end up with a free vote. The

:27:12. > :27:15.only way to get through it is to have a free vote. The down side is

:27:16. > :27:20.the Labour Party doesn't have a view on war. But that will fade. It

:27:21. > :27:24.becomes a joke party on a major issue. But that is an improvement on

:27:25. > :27:29.the current situation. The other option is that Jeremy Corbyn could

:27:30. > :27:34.decide to lead and say this is my view, you know what it is, I have

:27:35. > :27:38.held it for 30 years, and therefore you're going to have to walk

:27:39. > :27:44.through. When you ends up it may be that the shadow cab net members vote

:27:45. > :27:48.against it but don't resign. Shelley Asquith, it is unfair to pull you in

:27:49. > :27:52.like this. You have jumped out of car. Where is Jeremy Corbyn now,

:27:53. > :28:00.people are saying as soon as you're not listening to your MPs, you stop

:28:01. > :28:04.behaving like a political party and look like a pressure group. Hundreds

:28:05. > :28:09.of thousands of people voted for Jeremy Corbyn and I got an e-mail to

:28:10. > :28:12.say what do you think as a Labour Party member we should be doing. It

:28:13. > :28:17.is great that Jeremy Corbyn is opening up the party and picking up

:28:18. > :28:20.what people think on this and showing leadership. If he wasn't,

:28:21. > :28:23.people would be saying he is not showing leadership. You have got a

:28:24. > :28:28.politician who has got principles and sticks to them and people say he

:28:29. > :28:32.is not showing leadership. He is not sticking to anything yet. You know

:28:33. > :28:37.he has stop the war and will be antiwar. We know exactly what he

:28:38. > :28:41.this. But we don't know what he is going to do and he has to do things.

:28:42. > :28:45.He has never had to do anything in his life and simply has to talk. Now

:28:46. > :28:49.he has to act and make a decision. What is the position of the Labour

:28:50. > :28:53.Party. It maybe that all the e-mails will come and say everybody agrees

:28:54. > :28:57.with me, so we are going to whip it through the House of Commons. Fine.

:28:58. > :29:02.He is the leader of the Labour Party and he has the right to do that. It

:29:03. > :29:10.is unfair to say he hasn't had to do it. He has been an MP for many

:29:11. > :29:14.years. In opposition to everything. Not everything but some Labour Party

:29:15. > :29:19.MPs haven't learned from the mistakes that we made. Does it

:29:20. > :29:24.matter when you see that Hilary Benn or Tom Watson or others in his

:29:25. > :29:29.Shadow Cabinet don't support the leader. There is a a problem? If

:29:30. > :29:34.they don't support him, should they resign? I'm not going to say they

:29:35. > :29:37.should resign or be sacked. I don't know what will happen within the

:29:38. > :29:42.Shadow Cabinet. But they need to listen to the will of their

:29:43. > :29:47.supporters and not necessarily jshg coming down on them -- Jeremy Corbyn

:29:48. > :29:51.coming down on them. Over 70% of Labour Party members don't agree we

:29:52. > :29:57.should be bombing Syria and look what happened with Iraq and

:29:58. > :30:02.Afghanistan. Seem seem to happily to have forgotten how much anger there

:30:03. > :30:05.was about Iraq and it is becoming a judgment of whether Jeremy Corbyn

:30:06. > :30:12.has leadership as opposed to whether it is about the war. I I don't think

:30:13. > :30:16.they have forgotten. Iraq hangs over the whole thing. The reason it is

:30:17. > :30:21.difficult to get a vote is about Iraq. I think Iraq is overall of

:30:22. > :30:24.this. But it is still remains the case that the Labour Party is now in

:30:25. > :30:29.a mess and Jeremy Corbyn has to finds a way out. How does it feel

:30:30. > :30:35.from the inside, do you think it is overstated the idea of the chaos

:30:36. > :30:40.within? Or do you think you're look fog leadership that isn't there. As

:30:41. > :30:45.an MP I will make my judgment based on the evidence and the loneliest

:30:46. > :30:49.place is making that decision to go to war or not. Which ever judgment

:30:50. > :30:54.you make, you're going to make it on you own. Do you need a leadered who

:30:55. > :30:59.tells you what you think. Or do you want to be left alone? I think there

:31:00. > :31:03.is nothing wrong with walking away from a whipped position. Jeremy

:31:04. > :31:08.Corbyn has done it for 30 years. But it is no tenable for us to be a

:31:09. > :31:13.party of opposition, or a Parliamenty that wants to be in

:31:14. > :31:21.government if we are not willing to express a collective view on

:31:22. > :31:26.something as important as this. There will be resignations. I would

:31:27. > :31:33.want to avoid it, but the only way to do it is count the number of MPs.

:31:34. > :31:39.It would be remarkable if a shadow Foreign Secretary did not agree with

:31:40. > :31:43.the whipped position of the party. It would be unprecedented. This

:31:44. > :31:48.chaos is foreshortening Jeremy Corbyn's time as leader. You showed

:31:49. > :31:52.the The Times that pointed out that there is already MPs looking for

:31:53. > :31:56.legal challenges to see whether they can force him off the ballot.

:31:57. > :32:00.Whether this a right or wrong, that is starting to surface. It is

:32:01. > :32:04.starting to happen and he has to have a position that getses him

:32:05. > :32:10.through Mondays with the Labour Party's cred ibiibility intact. We

:32:11. > :32:11.will bring you back on mobds on Tuesday. - Mondays or Tuesday. Thank

:32:12. > :32:14.you. And now for Artsnight - which this

:32:15. > :32:17.week is presented by Conservative MP The author of the book Ghosts

:32:18. > :32:20.of Empire, Kwasi explores how Britain's imperial expansion changed

:32:21. > :32:23.the shape of art history. He talks to

:32:24. > :32:24.the Booker Prize winning novelist Peter Carey about the Australian

:32:25. > :32:27.colonial experience - while comedian Shazia Mirza explores the colourful

:32:28. > :32:35.legacy of Indian fabric. London in the 21st century is

:32:36. > :32:40.a metropolitan, multicultural city.