:00:00. > :00:07.Tonight, Britain stands on the brink of
:00:08. > :00:11.military action in Syria - is it all down to splits in the Labour party?
:00:12. > :00:15.As Jeremy Corbyn bows to a free vote for his MPs,
:00:16. > :00:23.the numbers are mounting in support of David Cameron's call to arms.
:00:24. > :00:28.As many as 100 Labour MPs could support strikes on Syria, it has
:00:29. > :00:32.been a bruising episode four Labour. We'll be talking to
:00:33. > :00:33.Labour's front bench - and a close advisor of Tony Blair
:00:34. > :00:37.who took us into the Iraq war. The world is at the limits of
:00:38. > :00:40.suicide - warns Pope Francis - as 150 countries meet in
:00:41. > :00:43.Paris to slow down climate change. One man knows the planet
:00:44. > :00:44.better than most. We ask David
:00:45. > :00:46.Attenborough if world leaders are If we could
:00:47. > :00:50.harness 1/5,000th part of the energy the sun sprays on the
:00:51. > :00:55.earth we could provide all the energy requirements
:00:56. > :00:59.of the entire human race. And meeting the muse of
:01:00. > :01:02.Yves Saint Laurent, now putting his ?30 million collection of rare
:01:03. > :01:12.books up for sale. I don't think Mr Corbyn has
:01:13. > :01:14.a great career of mannequin. By an extraordinary convergence of
:01:15. > :01:29.political weakness and electoral mathematics, this country now stands
:01:30. > :01:32.on the brink of committing to war Jeremy Corbyn had gone into the
:01:33. > :01:47.meeting of his Shadow Cabinet expecting them to back
:01:48. > :01:49.his resistence to air strikes. He emerged - after pressure from his
:01:50. > :01:52.front bench - promising his MPs a free vote. What happens next comes
:01:53. > :01:55.down to a debate on Wednesday, which the prime minister has just tabled,
:01:56. > :01:59.and the vote that will follow. But from all the signs tonight, it looks
:02:00. > :02:02.as if the government could now have enough support from the opposition
:02:03. > :02:05.benches to give the PM the mandate he needs. Tonight, we'll look at the
:02:06. > :02:08.timetable for any future strikes, and whether the British public
:02:09. > :02:10.supports the action. We'll also ask how the relationship
:02:11. > :02:12.between the Labour leader, his cabinet and his supporters may have
:02:13. > :02:15.inadvertently brought us to where we are tonight.
:02:16. > :02:25.First up, here's Allegra Stratton. Today's Shadow Cabinet meeting is
:02:26. > :02:28.perhaps the most important gathering held in the Palace of Westminster so
:02:29. > :02:32.far this Parliament. Shadow Cabinet members told me they were on the
:02:33. > :02:37.verge of resignation before it. The meeting would decide whether Britain
:02:38. > :02:42.would strike Syria and also whether Syria would break Labour. In the
:02:43. > :02:46.hour before the meeting the office but at a poll conducted over the
:02:47. > :02:50.weekend that they said showed that 75% of Labour members who replied
:02:51. > :02:54.oppose the idea of strikes on Syria. I imagine that in this meeting
:02:55. > :02:58.Shadow Cabinet members will resist the opinion poll and its findings,
:02:59. > :03:02.they think it's the opinion that should matter. Over the weekend
:03:03. > :03:06.Jeremy Corbyn's team, the heirs to Tony Benn, looked as if they would
:03:07. > :03:11.dig in, force people to vote against as dogs and force a mass walk-out.
:03:12. > :03:14.Long negotiations with deputy leader Tom Watson attempted to bring the
:03:15. > :03:18.Labour leader back from the brink. We've just bumped into one of the
:03:19. > :03:21.closest allies of Jeremy Corbyn. This morning they thought there
:03:22. > :03:28.would be a free vote, now they say they are not social for three
:03:29. > :03:30.reasons. Firstly over the weekend many MPs have been shocked by the
:03:31. > :03:35.strength of feeling opposing striking Syria. The second, they say
:03:36. > :03:39.many numbers have also been shocked by the behaviour, the disloyalty of
:03:40. > :03:43.the parliamentary Labour Party. They feel the parliamentary Labour Party
:03:44. > :03:46.should support the leader. And secondly Jeremy Corbyn has made a
:03:47. > :03:51.life's work of opposing military action. There is a sense in which
:03:52. > :03:56.they say, if you cannot oppose this, what is the point of him. Moments
:03:57. > :04:00.later, the decision, a free vote after all. It is said Jeremy Corbyn
:04:01. > :04:05.offered a free vote of his own free will although it is said that he
:04:06. > :04:08.considered whipping a party to oppose ever strikes. It seems the
:04:09. > :04:12.party looks double headed, the leader saying one thing and the
:04:13. > :04:16.Shadow Foreign Secretary another. The fact is that there are different
:04:17. > :04:20.views on this within the Shadow Cabinet. Different views on this in
:04:21. > :04:24.the parliamentary party and probably different views within the public as
:04:25. > :04:28.well. Of course I understand what you are saying but it is a
:04:29. > :04:33.reflection of where we are with this debate. Lunch might even for those
:04:34. > :04:37.opposed to strike there was an happiness. I have never seen or
:04:38. > :04:41.heard anything like this before. The rule book says the decision on how
:04:42. > :04:47.and whether to whip is taken by the Shadow Cabinet. About is final. And
:04:48. > :04:52.for me as an MP is the web that matters, whether we have one or not.
:04:53. > :04:57.Fine if we have the views of 70,000 Labour Party members but you cannot
:04:58. > :05:01.make a policy like that on the hoof. It's the end of a long and tiring
:05:02. > :05:04.day and write know the Labour Party is meeting up those stairs and
:05:05. > :05:09.around the corner in their weekly meeting. The party is battered
:05:10. > :05:13.tonight. Also bent in two. The Shadow Foreign Secretary will make
:05:14. > :05:16.one case from the dispatch box, the Labour leader another. It is not as
:05:17. > :05:22.bad as it might have been. The party could have been dealing with mass
:05:23. > :05:25.resignations. What we had tonight was considered debate about Syria,
:05:26. > :05:30.which is what we should have been doing for the last four days. I feel
:05:31. > :05:38.this could have been handled a hell of a lot better. David Lambie, how
:05:39. > :05:44.was the meeting for you? Say what you really think! It was a very
:05:45. > :05:51.heated meeting. I found it deeply unfortunate that we as a party spent
:05:52. > :05:57.the weekend terribly internal about ourselves and not directed at this
:05:58. > :06:02.very serious decision. Stopping military action is an article of
:06:03. > :06:13.faith for Jeremy Corbyn. On this, he could have wept Labour, yet he shows
:06:14. > :06:16.-- he chose not to. It seems that Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party now
:06:17. > :06:17.looks unlikely to stop David Cameron.
:06:18. > :06:19.Joining me now, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Owen Smith
:06:20. > :06:22.who was in that Shadow Cabinet meeting for much of the afternoon.
:06:23. > :06:25.How many hours? The best part of two hours.
:06:26. > :06:30.You'll be voting against air strikes?
:06:31. > :06:36.Yes, Emily. I thought very carefully about this. I was someone who might
:06:37. > :06:41.have been persuaded by the Prime Minister and I did not speak last
:06:42. > :06:45.week, and I chose to think and talk to people over the weekend, as I
:06:46. > :06:49.have done in recent months, and I've come to the conclusion that the
:06:50. > :06:54.Prime Minister has, for me, for this MP, not made the case compellingly
:06:55. > :06:59.enough, either that limited bombing action, which is what he proposes,
:07:00. > :07:03.will assist in defeating Isil. I think we can all agree that that is
:07:04. > :07:13.what we ought to be aiming for. All achieve beyond that, lasting
:07:14. > :07:18.political resolution in Syria... You support Jeremy Corbyn on this? I do.
:07:19. > :07:23.I think the right thing is to do what he did do, come to the Shadow
:07:24. > :07:29.Cabinet, recognising the very real, sincerely held, profound
:07:30. > :07:33.differences... You know that wasn't the case. I don't know that, you
:07:34. > :07:38.asserted that in the introduction, all I know is that Jeremy came to
:07:39. > :07:41.the Shadow Cabinet today and said clearly, at the outset, that he was
:07:42. > :07:47.proposing that we have a free vote on this issue. I think it is the
:07:48. > :07:51.right thing to do. Reflecting both the sincerely held disagreements
:07:52. > :07:55.within the Labour Party but also reflective of the country. The
:07:56. > :07:59.people that I talk to our conflicted about this. They don't know what is
:08:00. > :08:03.necessarily the right thing to do. I think that if they had a clear
:08:04. > :08:07.understanding, as we do, of how limited proposal is coming from the
:08:08. > :08:13.Prime Minister, David Cameron is the person who should be questioned here
:08:14. > :08:19.tonight. It is he who has failed to... He ought to come on and
:08:20. > :08:23.explain... We've tried to cut the mathematics. It is all rough at this
:08:24. > :08:27.stage before Wednesday. It sounds as if we will be committing to a
:08:28. > :08:33.strikes, doesn't it, after that vote? The government has a majority
:08:34. > :08:39.of 12. It isn't just the government majority, it is the number of Labour
:08:40. > :08:44.MPs, between 60 and 100, a big gap but that would easily give him the
:08:45. > :08:50.mandate to do that. I am sure that there are a number of my colleagues,
:08:51. > :08:54.I haven't asked them, I am not sure of the absolute total but a lot of
:08:55. > :08:59.them will have thought just as carefully as I have about this, as
:09:00. > :09:03.has Hilary Benn and others who are convinced. Will you try to change
:09:04. > :09:07.their mind? What is the position now? Is it up to you and Jeremy
:09:08. > :09:11.Corbyn and others who do not agree with air strikes to go to your
:09:12. > :09:16.fellow MPs and make the case for them not to vote? No, we decided as
:09:17. > :09:24.a party, as a Shadow Cabinet, that they should be a free vote. So it is
:09:25. > :09:29.for members, based on their beliefs, to make a decision. Lunch Mac so the
:09:30. > :09:32.noes are not the party line? We don't have a party line. We've
:09:33. > :09:36.decided there is disagreement within the Labour Party as to whether we
:09:37. > :09:40.should be supporting this particular proposal. We need to differentiate
:09:41. > :09:46.between the notion of our getting involved militarily in Syria at all
:09:47. > :09:51.at some point, and the proposal that is on the table from the Prime
:09:52. > :09:56.Minister. I think it is a false dichotomy to say there is this
:09:57. > :09:59.binary choice. Suppose I am a vote in Oldham this week and trying to
:10:00. > :10:05.work out what Labour foreign policy is, are they anti-intervention or
:10:06. > :10:11.not -- if I am a voter? What would you tell me is your policy? That we
:10:12. > :10:14.are an extremely serious political party that has thoughtfully
:10:15. > :10:18.seriously about the most important choice that we could make. You have
:10:19. > :10:23.said seriously twice in one sentence, that means you are torn to
:10:24. > :10:29.pieces over this. Should recommit our military to engagement overseas
:10:30. > :10:33.with the inevitable loss of life that will follow? I haven't
:10:34. > :10:38.carefully at what David Cameron proposes. He says his objective is
:10:39. > :10:44.to defeat Isil. I agree. That should be had. You cannot say what your
:10:45. > :10:47.policy is on intervention because Jeremy Corbyn will say one thing and
:10:48. > :10:53.Hilary Benn, who should be closest to him on this issue, will say
:10:54. > :10:57.another. Straightforwardly, the most important thing is that we get the
:10:58. > :11:03.right decision for the country. But we analyse what is placed before us
:11:04. > :11:08.by the Prime Minister on its merits. And we come to a conclusion as
:11:09. > :11:12.individual MPs, if we had been able to come to agreement as a party that
:11:13. > :11:19.would have been better, I think. We clearly could not do that. If he's
:11:20. > :11:23.right and he got 75% of the reply saying that we don't want you to go
:11:24. > :11:31.to war in Syria, what was the point of that if he then a free vote?
:11:32. > :11:34.Jeremy did what he always said he would, reach out to party members
:11:35. > :11:38.and engage them in a more inclusive debate about policy. Nothing wrong
:11:39. > :11:42.with that. He could have got a result that was not in accordance
:11:43. > :11:49.with his views. I am not sure what my CLP would think if all members's
:11:50. > :11:54.views were tested. What I am certain about is, for me, when I have looked
:11:55. > :11:57.at the case but by the Prime Minister, I am not convinced that we
:11:58. > :12:03.will make Britain a safer place, not convinced that we were faced in the
:12:04. > :12:07.resolution... Laughing in the face of your supporters to an extent
:12:08. > :12:11.because, like him or loathe him, you understand that Jeremy Corbyn is a
:12:12. > :12:15.man of principle. We know he is in favour of stop the War. He doesn't
:12:16. > :12:19.like intervention, and yet he hasn't shown leadership, he's bottled it.
:12:20. > :12:26.We are all men and women of principle. On this issue he's
:12:27. > :12:30.bottled it. He could have said, I believe in this strongly, I lead the
:12:31. > :12:37.party, my supporters have told me that they backed me and I am taking
:12:38. > :12:40.that to Parliament. Why didn't he? Because he's seriously reflecting on
:12:41. > :12:44.the fact that there isn't an agreed position within the party. There are
:12:45. > :12:47.different views held sincerely by different members across the party
:12:48. > :12:51.and that is why the sensible thing for us to do is have a free vote. I
:12:52. > :12:56.come back to this substantive issue. That is what we ought to be baked
:12:57. > :13:00.tonight, it isn't about the Labour Party or Jeremy Corbyn and certainly
:13:01. > :13:06.not about individual MPs -- that's what we ought to debate. It is about
:13:07. > :13:10.if the right thing to do is to engage in limited bombing, mainly
:13:11. > :13:13.ten planes from the UK, adding to the two and half thousand, 3000
:13:14. > :13:19.strikes that have been administered by the Americans and the French. The
:13:20. > :13:25.question is, well that haste in the end of Isil and Assyrian resolution?
:13:26. > :13:31.I'm not convinced that is the case. - and a Syrian resolution. I think
:13:32. > :13:35.we should think much more deeply about long-term strategy is a
:13:36. > :13:42.western power in the Middle East. Thank you. That is exactly where we
:13:43. > :13:45.are taking the debate. David Cameron promised along and full debate in
:13:46. > :13:48.the House of Commons on Wednesday, he said it was the right thing to do
:13:49. > :13:53.and would be in the interests of the country to keep us safe. He was
:13:54. > :13:57.asked about that figure of 70,000 moderate troops on the ground in
:13:58. > :14:13.Syria, uncertain at this stage, he replied that they would be ready.
:14:14. > :14:16.Me. The Iraqi Army and the Kurdish peshmerga forces. The Syrian
:14:17. > :14:20.situation is more complicated but there are some ground troops in
:14:21. > :14:23.terms of the free Syrian Army and other troops that are able to take
:14:24. > :14:34.action against Isil. What happens now for the Government?
:14:35. > :14:39.The debate and the vote on veterans, people are talking in Government
:14:40. > :14:43.about anything, as you said, I'm hearing similar things, 60 to 100
:14:44. > :14:48.Labour dissidents. That gives David Cameron what he wanted, for it not
:14:49. > :14:51.to be a whipped thing, a party political division over this issue,
:14:52. > :14:57.and secondly a substantial majority potentially for strikes. The RAF I'm
:14:58. > :15:01.told will pretty much immediately probably that night start flying
:15:02. > :15:05.reconnaissance over targets. It's possible, what they call dynamic
:15:06. > :15:09.targeting, the J tack, the air controller, may give them a target
:15:10. > :15:14.that Knight and they may well start. Even if they don't it is only likely
:15:15. > :15:19.to be a day or two before they hit targets in Syria. So they can get
:15:20. > :15:22.ready that quickly can they? They are already flying against targets
:15:23. > :15:26.in Iraq and they can do that. Hearing your early discussion, this
:15:27. > :15:29.perception that the UK can't bring that many aircraft to the fight.
:15:30. > :15:34.They are determined to increase the number. There's pretty limited
:15:35. > :15:40.leeway in the RAF on that, and what I've been hearing is that the
:15:41. > :15:45.current 8 tornadoes in Akrotiri will be supplemented. Of course they
:15:46. > :15:49.can't just move these eight planes around between Iraq and Syria.
:15:50. > :15:57.People will say you are shifting the same deck chairs on the deck. They
:15:58. > :16:01.are going to send two more Tornadoes and six Typhoon aircraft. They will
:16:02. > :16:06.have relatively quickly in Akrotiri up to 16 jets to carry out air
:16:07. > :16:08.strikes against IS targets in those countries. They are trying to
:16:09. > :16:12.increase the level of apprenticeship military activity. When you factor
:16:13. > :16:17.in as well defensive UK airspace, that's pretty much it. That's pretty
:16:18. > :16:20.much the whole Royal Air Force committed. Mark, thank you.
:16:21. > :16:22.Joining me now, Tony Blair's former chief of staff, Jonathan Powell,
:16:23. > :16:24.who's written extensively on the question
:16:25. > :16:29.His latest book is Talking to Terrorists.
:16:30. > :16:37.Nice of you to come in. When you listened to Mark laying it out there
:16:38. > :16:42.in stark terms, it feel it is like the country is being readied for war
:16:43. > :16:49.and I guess you will say that this is the other equation of what Iraq
:16:50. > :16:56.has started I don't think there can be a logical idea about bombing
:16:57. > :17:00.Iraq... But you recognise this is a big step, this needed to be a
:17:01. > :17:04.convincing argument for all the reasons we understand about it not
:17:05. > :17:08.being an invitation of a sovereign territory? I don't think this is the
:17:09. > :17:14.start of a big war. I don't think it is seen as such a big step. It is
:17:15. > :17:17.doing what Isil do, which is not regarding the border. There are
:17:18. > :17:21.bigger questions that come later, as bombing is necessary but in the
:17:22. > :17:26.sufficient, it is necessary to help the Kurds for example to hang on to
:17:27. > :17:31.Kobane in Syria and to capture Sinjar. Do you think David Cameron
:17:32. > :17:36.should have said, I'm pretty sure of this, we are doing it already? He
:17:37. > :17:41.should have had a vote and it looks like he is able to win it now.
:17:42. > :17:44.Bombing is sufficient, is not sufficient, it is necessary but
:17:45. > :17:49.won't some of the problem. If our aim is to degrade and destroy Isil
:17:50. > :17:55.we are going to have to do a lot more than simply bomb them. 70,000,
:17:56. > :18:00.we are thinking of that now as the 45 minute figure. Does I ring true
:18:01. > :18:05.from what you know of these troops? I think there are 70,000 fighters in
:18:06. > :18:12.Syria but at the moment they are fighting Assad and they don't have
:18:13. > :18:18.any intention of fighting Daesh or Isil. You can't leave it to the Shia
:18:19. > :18:21.militias from Baghdad, so who is going to do this fighting? That's
:18:22. > :18:26.the question that needs to be answered. And it is not going to
:18:27. > :18:31.make us safer is it? You can't realistically that Britain at home
:18:32. > :18:36.becomes a safer country? It does if we deal with Isil. Just as they were
:18:37. > :18:40.this Paris, you can't ignore it. 9/11 came out of Afghanistan. You
:18:41. > :18:45.can't deal with them here, you have to deal with them at the root. It
:18:46. > :18:48.seems a simple equation there, a simple question for you but it's not
:18:49. > :18:54.one for the Labour Party at the moment. Do you think part of this
:18:55. > :18:57.self flagellation, a large part, is precisely because of the Iraq war?
:18:58. > :19:03.Obviously there's a hangover from the Iraq war, just as there there
:19:04. > :19:09.was before from previous war. Black Hawk Down in some Aaliyah stopped
:19:10. > :19:14.people intervening in Kosovo. When you say rational, people will say in
:19:15. > :19:20.foreign policy terms that was the worst decision any leader has made
:19:21. > :19:24.since Suez? You can say that if you want, but you don't want to be hung
:19:25. > :19:29.over by the last decision. You don't want to lash out in the heat of
:19:30. > :19:32.emotion. You want to make a cool, rational decision. I guess what I'm
:19:33. > :19:37.asking, is it right that we have questioning leaders now? Do you
:19:38. > :19:40.admire Mr Corbyn for saying hang on everyone let's make sure that we
:19:41. > :19:44.know what we are going into? Or do you see a Labour Party in pieces? It
:19:45. > :19:47.is absolutely right that everyone should ask questions. We need a
:19:48. > :19:51.serious military strategy and political strategy. As I say,
:19:52. > :19:56.bombing makes sense but you need to have ground forces if you are going
:19:57. > :20:01.take territory. Are there ground forces? I don't know whose ground
:20:02. > :20:04.forces they are going to be. You can't do it without ground forces.
:20:05. > :20:08.And you need a political strategy dealing with the bereavances of the
:20:09. > :20:13.Sunnis, who've been disenfranchised in Iraq and Syria. And talking to
:20:14. > :20:17.them just as we talk to the IRA, the PLO and others in the past. Where do
:20:18. > :20:22.you think ground forces need to come from? You cannot see a UK Prime
:20:23. > :20:26.Minister now putting in British ground troops, can you? That's what
:20:27. > :20:33.people are going to have to think about. This is a coalition, not just
:20:34. > :20:37.Britain. We are going to have to put western forces in, but it is a
:20:38. > :20:41.coalition, not something that Britain can decide itself. And you
:20:42. > :20:45.believe Britain needs to communicate with terrorists and get that
:20:46. > :20:50.dialogue going. Is Isis on the cards for that? I would have thought so.
:20:51. > :20:59.Every time we meet a new terrorist group, we say we'll never to them
:21:00. > :21:02.and defeat them... Even an apocalyptic death cult?
:21:03. > :21:07.Unfortunately they know they they can get our attention by killing
:21:08. > :21:09.people in horrific ways. Thank you. I know you are going to stay with
:21:10. > :21:14.us. So has the lead up to what is
:21:15. > :21:18.increasingly looking like a move to military action been overshadowed
:21:19. > :21:20.by party political spilts? Tonight, Jeremy Corbyn claimed
:21:21. > :21:22.the debate was running away from David Cameron
:21:23. > :21:24.and his case was falling apart. Rachel Sylvester of the Times,
:21:25. > :21:27.and Clive Lewis MP and Director of Momentum - the Campaign group
:21:28. > :21:38.that supports Jeremy Corbyn - are Just for the record I advise some of
:21:39. > :21:43.the people who work for them. Director is too posh a title I'm not
:21:44. > :21:46.a chair. For the record, keep it straight.
:21:47. > :21:48.Rachel - talk us through what Downing Street
:21:49. > :21:58.Has the battle run away with David Cameron? I think they'll be feeling
:21:59. > :22:04.rerelieved. They said they wouldn't hold a vote unless they were pretty
:22:05. > :22:09.sure of winning it. The vote has gone ahead and that David Cameron
:22:10. > :22:13.has had to concede a free vote, it makes it much more likely that air
:22:14. > :22:18.strikes will go ahead. This was one issue on which the Labour
:22:19. > :22:22.opposition, which has been pretty powerless since the election had
:22:23. > :22:24.some power. They had the ability to determine the result in Parliament.
:22:25. > :22:28.What's happened today is significant. But they've given that
:22:29. > :22:32.power away. Isn't that frustrating for the grass roots? I think it is a
:22:33. > :22:38.matter of conscience. I think when you listen to the so-called grass
:22:39. > :22:42.roots, they would have seen that many MPs have agonised over this and
:22:43. > :22:45.thought over it. Ny MPs have agonised over this and thought over
:22:46. > :22:51.it. I look back - I wasn't there obviously, I look back to the Iraq
:22:52. > :22:56.war where we were whipped and the Libya where we were whipped and they
:22:57. > :23:00.didn't end well. This gives MPs the chance to analyse and come to a
:23:01. > :23:04.conclusion how we are going to vote. I know we laugh at the term new
:23:05. > :23:08.politics, but I think we are approaching it not a more mature way
:23:09. > :23:12.and I think many people out there in the country would like to see us
:23:13. > :23:17.acting in that way. Is that something you would say, we don't
:23:18. > :23:22.need leadership per se, we like new politics and like something not
:23:23. > :23:31.whipped like Iraq? There'll be a bunch of people in the country
:23:32. > :23:35.disenfranchised unless very have an opposition that's peeking for them.
:23:36. > :23:40.And if you have the Foreign Secretary and the leader in
:23:41. > :23:45.different positions how are the public to know if air strikes would
:23:46. > :23:51.go ahead. They are not behaving like a credible alternative Government. I
:23:52. > :23:57.was looking at the newspapers as I came in and how much was devoted to
:23:58. > :24:03.the internal machinations. I've been asked on five programmes to talk
:24:04. > :24:05.about Syria, and on each one I have ended up talking about the Labour
:24:06. > :24:10.Party. I understand it is an interesting concept. On Wednesday
:24:11. > :24:15.when we know what the vote is we'll be in a position where we can talk
:24:16. > :24:20.directly about Syria instead of hypothesising. What I would like to
:24:21. > :24:23.see and what the media should be doing, we should be questioning
:24:24. > :24:28.David Cameron. We are on the brink, potentially, of sending an extra six
:24:29. > :24:34.planes, 14 planes into Syria, to bomb. As we speak now, if that vote
:24:35. > :24:37.goes through, there'll be women and children, potentially, who will be
:24:38. > :24:40.dying because of that decision. That's not something as an MP I feel
:24:41. > :24:44.particularly happy being whipped on. It is a matter of conscience. For
:24:45. > :24:49.that reason, if that alone, wouldn't it have been better to see a very
:24:50. > :24:52.strong message to went right through the party saying we are anti-this
:24:53. > :24:57.and we are now going to be the party that holds David Cameron to account?
:24:58. > :25:00.You can't be that party any more. I think most people know, we've all
:25:01. > :25:05.said it is a matter of conscience. Before it was mentioned about how we
:25:06. > :25:09.still have a so-called hang-up. The echoes of Iraq echo through our
:25:10. > :25:15.party. Many MPs are affected by that. They listen to that. It is
:25:16. > :25:19.right and proper. Rachel, is this sustainable? Do you think this is
:25:20. > :25:22.the new politics, this is how opposition is working now, this is a
:25:23. > :25:27.pretty important decision. Does it seem to be a position they can hold
:25:28. > :25:31.on to? What isn't sustainable is the fact you've got a huge chunk of the
:25:32. > :25:34.parliamentary Labour Party at odds with their leader. I think this
:25:35. > :25:38.isn't just to do with Syria. It is to do with the fact that the MPs
:25:39. > :25:43.feel they have a mandate from their constituents and the leader feels he
:25:44. > :25:48.has a mandate from his members. There's a total clash of not just
:25:49. > :25:51.ideaologists but the principle obvious politics. The MPs wants to
:25:52. > :25:56.win the election and they want to adopt policies which reach out to
:25:57. > :26:08.people beyond the Labour tribe. What they feel the Corbynistas want to
:26:09. > :26:13.appeal within the tribe... As an MP yes I want to win election 2020 but
:26:14. > :26:19.I want to make the right cities when it come tolls potentially send our
:26:20. > :26:23.forces into warfare, potentially putting themselves at risk and kill
:26:24. > :26:27.women and children. What does momentum do? Does it lobby the MPs
:26:28. > :26:33.had, take the views of supporters to MPs and try and hold them to a "no"
:26:34. > :26:37.vote? I think if you look at what Momentum does, it is not one central
:26:38. > :26:42.organisation which comes out with a line. It is a grass roots
:26:43. > :26:49.organisation made up of thousands of Labour Party members. I think as an
:26:50. > :26:55.MP I expect to be lobbied by constituents, by party members,
:26:56. > :26:59.members of Momentum, people from Progress and the Fabians, I'm an MP.
:27:00. > :27:02.What I don't expect is abuse. I think what Jeremy Corbyn has said,
:27:03. > :27:07.he's given a free vote. Respect that. Is this the Labour Party that
:27:08. > :27:10.you recognise? No, I think there's a problem in this country when we
:27:11. > :27:13.don't have a strong opposition. As long as we are talking about
:27:14. > :27:17.ourselves as the party instead of the issues, and the problem Clive
:27:18. > :27:23.talks about is what we are going to have. Whose fault is that It is not
:27:24. > :27:28.sustainable for a long period of time. I don't see how you can keep
:27:29. > :27:34.this together. It is a clash of membership who voted for him and MPs
:27:35. > :27:37.who never accepted that. Thank you all very much indeed.
:27:38. > :27:39.Recent history is littered with the places - Copenhagen, Lima,
:27:40. > :27:42.Bali - that gave their names to the mission of stalling climate
:27:43. > :27:46.Kyoto was the last - some would say limited success -
:27:47. > :27:50.So to say there's a lot riding on Paris this week -
:27:51. > :27:53.after all the trauma the city has been through - is no exaggeration.
:27:54. > :27:56.Today world leaders from more than 150 countries descended on Cop21 -
:27:57. > :27:59.the Climate change summit whose mission is to pull things back
:28:00. > :28:04.One man who knows the planet better than most is
:28:05. > :28:08.He's been at the forefront of the Apollo program - a mission to
:28:09. > :28:11.speed up the technology needed for renewable - solar - energy - to make
:28:12. > :28:14.I talked to him this afternoon from Paris.
:28:15. > :28:20.I think the statement made by President Obama just now has really
:28:21. > :28:26.It doesn't go quite as far as some of us might wish,
:28:27. > :28:28.but it is certainly a major step down the road.
:28:29. > :28:32.Do you agree with India's Prime Minister Modi, who has asked
:28:33. > :28:36.for climate justice, that curious phrase, but he's basically saying
:28:37. > :28:41.that those countries that have developed, that have become powerful
:28:42. > :28:45.on the back of the use of fossil fuels should now give more?
:28:46. > :28:49.Yes, but President Obama's statement, and certainly the global
:28:50. > :28:53.Apollo programme, which I'm hoping to support, provides exactly that.
:28:54. > :28:59.What we're trying to do is to get the nations together to do
:29:00. > :29:04.the necessary research to get the production, transmission and storage
:29:05. > :29:08.of energy from renewable resources cheaper than coal so that those
:29:09. > :29:11.nations which may be developed or less developed that are getting
:29:12. > :29:16.their material from coal will now decide to move to
:29:17. > :29:19.a different source of energy which will be cheaper than the coal on
:29:20. > :29:30.You would say therefore there is no shortage of energy on earth?
:29:31. > :29:32.There is no shortage of energy from the Sun.
:29:33. > :29:35.If we could harness a one 5,000th part of
:29:36. > :29:40.the energy that the Sun sprays upon the earth every 24 hours, we could
:29:41. > :29:43.provide all the energy requirements of the entire human race.
:29:44. > :29:49.We are suggesting you would get not even that much,
:29:50. > :29:52.but that's what we are suggesting that we should get straight from
:29:53. > :29:57.Why do you think, given everything that science has
:29:58. > :30:03.Because it is easier to burn a piece of coal.
:30:04. > :30:08.We've solved the major ones of getting the energy
:30:09. > :30:12.What we haven't solved so far is getting it cheaper.
:30:13. > :30:16.That's what we need to do, so that's cheaper than coal.
:30:17. > :30:19.At the moment anybody can go out and dig a piece of coal and light
:30:20. > :30:23.But we can't afford to do that any more.
:30:24. > :30:25.John Kerry made that statement and said whatever happens wouldn't
:30:26. > :30:37.I believe that when you look at Obama's statement the will is there
:30:38. > :30:44.You can write all sorts of words on paper, but in the end if it's good
:30:45. > :30:47.people of good heart and goodwill, that's what get things done.
:30:48. > :30:52.So it doesn't matter if it won't have a legal status?
:30:53. > :30:57.Of course it would be nice if we had a legal status, but we hope
:30:58. > :31:05.that people will abide by these sentiments, which have been stated
:31:06. > :31:08.very clearly by the President and which I believe are being stated
:31:09. > :31:14.What would make you punch the air at the end of this summit and say yes,
:31:15. > :31:17.What are the words you want to hear from whom?
:31:18. > :31:25.If Obama had added a target date and actually also agreed a road map, a
:31:26. > :31:30.committee that was going to oversee worldwide scientific research to
:31:31. > :31:34.identify the problems in the chain and to sort out who's going to deal
:31:35. > :31:37.with them, that would have been the cherry on the cake.
:31:38. > :31:39.Sir David, thank you very much indeed.
:31:40. > :31:48.The Conservative Party bullying scandal that forced former
:31:49. > :31:51.chairman Grant Shapps to quit his ministerial post over the weekend
:31:52. > :31:55.The party has announced that a law firm will run their investigation
:31:56. > :31:58.There had been claims that their own internal inquiry, launched
:31:59. > :32:01.after a series of complaints were made about former aide Mark Clarke,
:32:02. > :32:05.Mark Clarke, who has already been expelled from the Conservative Party
:32:06. > :32:07.for life, categorically denies a string of bullying and blackmail
:32:08. > :32:14.Those calling for a more independent inquiry included Ray Johnson -
:32:15. > :32:16.he's the father of Elliott Johnson who killed himself after previously
:32:17. > :32:20.Well, James Clayton, who's been following this story
:32:21. > :32:34.This is quite a momentous day for the Conservative Party. Until last
:32:35. > :32:42.week, Edward Legard was heading this inquiry. He is a barrister and
:32:43. > :32:47.perhaps more importantly a former Conservative Party candidate. A lot
:32:48. > :32:52.of MPs I've spoken to have said, how can you have an independent inquiry
:32:53. > :32:58.when it is run by a conservative. That was not a concern David Cameron
:32:59. > :33:02.shared. This is a B Hind me from David Cameron to Ray Johnson, the
:33:03. > :33:10.father of Elliott Johnson. -- this is a letter, behind me. In the T he
:33:11. > :33:13.supports the inquiry and says that they have under way an internal
:33:14. > :33:19.investigation with a disciplinary panel that will be headed by Edward
:33:20. > :33:28.Legard. That entire inquiry has today been given to Clifford Chance.
:33:29. > :33:33.What has changed? A lot of pressure on Grant Shapps and on Lord
:33:34. > :33:37.Feldman, the current chairman. Grant Shapps resigned at the weekend, as
:33:38. > :33:41.we know, this was meant to alleviate some of the pressure on Lord
:33:42. > :33:49.Feldman. It has almost done the opposite. I have spoken to number
:33:50. > :33:53.ten Downing St and they are in full Operation Save Lord Feldman mode.
:33:54. > :33:58.They say that Lord Feldman did not know who Mark Clarke was and didn't
:33:59. > :34:02.know of any bullying before 2015. They say that this independent
:34:03. > :34:06.inquiry is a result of people like Ray Johnson who had called for it.
:34:07. > :34:11.There is another strategy at play here. It's this. Lord Feldman is
:34:12. > :34:14.very close friend of David Cameron's and the Tory party has
:34:15. > :34:19.decided they are not going to let this one go. They are to allow Grant
:34:20. > :34:24.Shapps to leave because he wasn't exactly flavour of the month and
:34:25. > :34:28.they are happy to give ground on and on the inquiry but they don't want
:34:29. > :34:33.Lord Feldman to go. We will have to see in the next couple of weeks if
:34:34. > :34:41.that strategy works. Mark Clarke denies all allegations. Yes Mackie
:34:42. > :34:44.has denied all allegations of bullying. Thank you, James.
:34:45. > :34:46.Fashion is territory into which Newsnight rarely forays.
:34:47. > :34:48.But when it does, it does it in style.
:34:49. > :34:51.The former lover of the late Yves Saint Laurent has decided to
:34:52. > :34:54.sell the most priceless library in private hands - estimated to be
:34:55. > :34:57.They're all to go under the hammer at Sotheby's in Paris,
:34:58. > :35:01.Pierre Berge, once the manager of the house of Yves Saint Laurent,
:35:02. > :35:04.impossibly rare books and manuscripts by Shakespeare,
:35:05. > :35:06.Dante, Flaubert, the Marquis de Sade and many others.
:35:07. > :35:09.It was all too much for Stephen Smith.
:35:10. > :35:19.He dressed the most beautiful women in the world.
:35:20. > :35:24.And that bought him the most priceless library in the world.
:35:25. > :35:34.Including a volume of St Augustine's Confessions from 1470.
:35:35. > :35:36.What was his famous saying, "Lord, please give me celibacy,
:35:37. > :35:41.Not yet, that is the important thing, not yet.
:35:42. > :35:48.Pierre Berge was the unflappable maitre d'
:35:49. > :36:07.He would sketch all the time, and I was a manager.
:36:08. > :36:12.And nobody came to the field of the other.
:36:13. > :36:14.You didn't interfere with each other's work?
:36:15. > :36:19.Did you ever have to say, come on, Yves, I need those drawings
:36:20. > :36:32.For me I think the fashion designer or painter or writer, they have to
:36:33. > :36:48.You and Yves Saint Laurent collected art and houses, but this was your
:36:49. > :37:02.Yves was born with a nervous breakdown.
:37:03. > :37:06.He was born with a nervous breakdown?
:37:07. > :37:09.He was born with a nervous breakdown.
:37:10. > :37:16.It's a joke, but it's not really a joke.
:37:17. > :37:21.But you know, there are fashion designers who are
:37:22. > :37:26.unhappy and fashion designers who are very happy.
:37:27. > :37:40.Fashion is not an art, but fashion needs an artist to exist.
:37:41. > :37:42.It's a strange combination, but I suppose you understand it.
:37:43. > :37:46.Was Yves Saint Laurent an artist in that sense?
:37:47. > :37:51.Yves Saint Laurent absolutely was an artist.
:37:52. > :37:57.According to Berge, the House of Yves Saint Laurent took fashion
:37:58. > :38:01.But now he says the industry has lost a sense
:38:02. > :38:13.For me the fashion is to serve the woman, and not the woman to
:38:14. > :38:33.You can see the wrong way all the time today.
:38:34. > :38:37.Yves wrote one day, if fashion is only for rich women, it is very sad.
:38:38. > :38:40.What do you make of people like our own dear Victoria Beckham and Kate
:38:41. > :39:04.I send my best wishes, but fashion, believe me, is a very hard job.
:39:05. > :39:09.It's not a woman's distraction, like to collect horses or dogs.
:39:10. > :39:18.And there's your phone, intruding on your time.
:39:19. > :39:23.For a man from the rag trade, Berge is very well connected,
:39:24. > :39:32.Why not, we can call him later to see what he's doing.
:39:33. > :39:34.Do you have his number in your phone?
:39:35. > :39:40.We asked Monsieur Berge to run his tape measure over the British
:39:41. > :39:51.Do you like his look, what do you think?
:39:52. > :40:03.What I don't like with your Prime Minister,
:40:04. > :40:05.is the distance he keeps with Europe.
:40:06. > :40:09.Now, I don't know if you've come across this gentleman yet.
:40:10. > :40:19.He seems a little bit full of dreams.
:40:20. > :40:26.It is necessary to give dreams to people.
:40:27. > :40:44.I don't think Mr Corbyn has a great carriere of mannequin.
:40:45. > :41:07.That is all we have time fors we will be back tomorrow. Good night
:41:08. > :41:11.from all of us.