:00:00. > :00:08.It's been a week since British airstrikes in Syria began.
:00:09. > :00:13.Tonight we'll look at the fight against IS in the air
:00:14. > :00:16.and on the ground and we'll find out how the Americans are targeting IS's
:00:17. > :00:24.To date, they have had access to major revenues that have allowed
:00:25. > :00:28.But if we can start taking a real chunk out of Isil's revenues,
:00:29. > :00:34.The Defence Secretary will give us his assessment.
:00:35. > :00:37.Also tonight: The decision on Heathrow's third runway -
:00:38. > :00:39.delayed, conveniently, until after next year's
:00:40. > :00:45.What does the chair of the Government's Infrastructure
:00:46. > :01:02.And how climate change in Mongolia has created a tragic war
:01:03. > :01:14.between sheep herders and snow leopards.
:01:15. > :01:19.It's far too early to make any proper assessment
:01:20. > :01:22.as to the effectiveness of British airstrikes in Syria.
:01:23. > :01:25.It is predicted to be a campaign of a long duration.
:01:26. > :01:27.We've been told to expect years, not months.
:01:28. > :01:32.The first British targets were oilfields in eastern Syria,
:01:33. > :01:36.making the point that economic targets are in sight.
:01:37. > :01:39.All part of the effort to undermine the resources going to so-called
:01:40. > :01:42.Today, in fact, news came that the coalition struck and killed
:01:43. > :01:47.We'll hear more about the economic front shortly.
:01:48. > :01:49.But how is the military effort progressing?
:01:50. > :01:52.Michael Fallon is the Defence Secretary.
:01:53. > :01:59.He's in Washington and he joins us from there now.
:02:00. > :02:06.Thank you for giving us the time. What effect have British strikes had
:02:07. > :02:11.so far? We have seen a very impressive start, the aria have
:02:12. > :02:17.moved seamlessly into dealing with Syria and they were already
:02:18. > :02:21.operating in Iraq, we have doubled the strikeforce, we have raised the
:02:22. > :02:30.tempo of missions, more than doubled them. And we have already had some
:02:31. > :02:35.successful strikes, as you say, on the infrastructure that supports
:02:36. > :02:39.Isil, from which it drives its revenue and from which it has been
:02:40. > :02:46.financing terrorist attacks in Europe to stop there is a long way
:02:47. > :02:53.to go before we deal with the monster that is Isil-Daesh at its
:02:54. > :03:00.source. A lot was made of the Brimstone missiles, at any of those
:03:01. > :03:07.bemused? We have been using our precision strike ability, and these
:03:08. > :03:09.munitions are a key part of that because they are able to minimise
:03:10. > :03:13.munitions are a key part of that any civilian casualties and deal
:03:14. > :03:21.specifically with targets like oil wells, one building but not those
:03:22. > :03:25.next door and it is that decision strike that our allies want us to
:03:26. > :03:33.bring to this campaign. How we used it so far in Syria? Yes, we have
:03:34. > :03:39.been using these missions in Syria alongside the campaign network. Pave
:03:40. > :03:45.way is equally as precise as the brimstone missiles and hitting these
:03:46. > :03:51.oil well head decisively. What busy constraint? What stops us doing
:03:52. > :03:56.more? The resources we have there or is it targets on the ground that you
:03:57. > :04:02.are confident you can take out and are not civilian, without civilian
:04:03. > :04:08.casualty? That are sufficient targets to deal with, there is also
:04:09. > :04:13.a cover each night in support of the ground forces, dynamic targeting
:04:14. > :04:19.where planes are above the ground forces, ready to give help. But
:04:20. > :04:23.where the RAF has, and specifically has been to add that precision
:04:24. > :04:28.strike and we will see more of that in the next days and weeks on
:04:29. > :04:32.logistics and command control headquarters and only supply routes
:04:33. > :04:38.that run from Syria eastwards into Iraq itself. I want to ask whether
:04:39. > :04:44.we have people on the ground helping identify targets because Newsnight
:04:45. > :04:47.understands that in Afghanistan, brimstone missiles, three quarters
:04:48. > :04:53.were directed by people on the ground who were able to ten point
:04:54. > :04:57.two target and if you do not have a very clear idea about what the
:04:58. > :05:01.target is, there is no point in having a precise missile that hit a
:05:02. > :05:06.target that might not be the right thing. Have we got people on the
:05:07. > :05:12.ground guiding us? Not our own people but there are Kurdish forces
:05:13. > :05:16.fighting in north-east Syria against Isil-Daesh and we are providing a
:05:17. > :05:20.lot of the overhead surveillance, the intelligence and analysis in the
:05:21. > :05:26.skies above that helps more precise targeting. Those people on the
:05:27. > :05:32.ground, they are directing our missiles? Just to be clear? Yes,
:05:33. > :05:37.wordy Kurdish forces need help in taking out targets, those targets
:05:38. > :05:42.are cleared through our targeting processes and agreed and we will
:05:43. > :05:48.come down and had them for them. The key question, only one week in, is
:05:49. > :05:55.whether we can sustain the effort we are making there. What is your view
:05:56. > :06:02.of the sustainability of this? It is only 16 jets out there, six Typhoons
:06:03. > :06:09.and ten tornadoes, people are saying that is using up quite a lot of this
:06:10. > :06:12.lack we would have had in the RAF? The RAF are fully engaged in this,
:06:13. > :06:18.they have been able to sustain the campaign and Iraq over more than one
:06:19. > :06:24.year, flying six days a week, flying pairs of tornadoes in the sky,
:06:25. > :06:27.helping this campaign effort. We have doubled the strikeforce so we
:06:28. > :06:31.should be able to sustain us for some time. We have one of the
:06:32. > :06:37.largest strike forces in the region and we plan to be there for a while.
:06:38. > :06:42.What happens in the event that something happens elsewhere in the
:06:43. > :06:48.world that requires fast jets, typhoons and tornadoes, to assist?
:06:49. > :06:55.Perhaps something in the Baltic states? Do we have any spare
:06:56. > :07:02.capacity at all to be in any other theatre rather than the one in Syria
:07:03. > :07:07.and Iraq? Absolutely, we have more Typhoons and tornadoes guarding the
:07:08. > :07:11.skies over Britain against any impression by long-range Russian
:07:12. > :07:15.aircraft and aircraft in the Falklands deterring any possible
:07:16. > :07:21.Argentinian reprise of their original invasion and we have other
:07:22. > :07:25.aircraft that we can send, we're sending them back to the Baltics in
:07:26. > :07:29.the spring to be part of the policing mission so these are not
:07:30. > :07:35.the only aircraft. We have doubled the force inside Cyprus. Fully
:07:36. > :07:42.equipped, Battle ready, the diamond fleet aircraft, how many spare are
:07:43. > :07:47.sitting around? You cannot take them out of the squadrons looking over
:07:48. > :07:50.the UK and put them in the Baltics? You will not take them out of the
:07:51. > :07:55.Falklands and put them in another theatre. What have you got it is
:07:56. > :08:03.another theatre that comes up in the next two years? The answer is
:08:04. > :08:10.enough. So after Syria that we were able to double the strikeforce after
:08:11. > :08:14.the vote, we have other aircraft in reserve and we want to keep some
:08:15. > :08:17.aircraft in reserve, as you say. There are other threats to this
:08:18. > :08:21.country that might emerge and we may have other commitments but there are
:08:22. > :08:27.enough aircraft and we are able at the moment to make a meaningful
:08:28. > :08:32.contribution to this campaign over Syria just as we have been doing
:08:33. > :08:37.previously in Iraq. One last point, as the Defence Secretary, do you
:08:38. > :08:44.ever reflect on the fact that we say that we spend more on defence than
:08:45. > :08:46.France and France comes out ahead in different measures but the official
:08:47. > :08:54.line is really the biggest spender in Europe, yet the French can put 12
:08:55. > :08:58.jets, not as many as us, plus an aircraft carrier and 24 planes on
:08:59. > :09:05.that. For the smaller budget they seem to get a lot more bang. Is that
:09:06. > :09:10.fair? I do not think so, we are doing far more around the world, we
:09:11. > :09:13.have troops and planes and ships on 20 operations around the globe
:09:14. > :09:21.tonight, far more than the French and the building two aircraft
:09:22. > :09:24.carriers to add to the Royal Navy and we're adding more frigates and
:09:25. > :09:28.destroyers and the point of the strategic defence review we have
:09:29. > :09:33.just completed his Regal have stronger and better defence, more
:09:34. > :09:37.planes and ships and troops at readiness, better equipment for the
:09:38. > :09:41.special forces. We are stepping up, as France and the Americans have
:09:42. > :09:46.asked us to do, as the UN has asked us. We are stepping up in this fight
:09:47. > :09:50.and I will be reviewing the progress of this campaign with the American
:09:51. > :09:51.Defence Secretary and the Pentagon tomorrow. Thank you very much
:09:52. > :09:54.indeed. One argument in currency last week,
:09:55. > :09:56.was that more important than the military action would be
:09:57. > :10:00.an assault on Isis and its finances - the oil trade, the donors sending
:10:01. > :10:02.money in, the banking connections As it happens, the man
:10:03. > :10:07.who is in charge of the economic war Adam Szubin is an acting
:10:08. > :10:12.undersecretary at the US Department of the Treasury, responsible
:10:13. > :10:15.for terrorism and financial We'll hear from him shortly
:10:16. > :10:18.but first, Mark Urban The campaign against Islamic State
:10:19. > :10:27.takes many forms, but it is the most violent that usually
:10:28. > :10:30.grab the attention. This evening the Americans announced
:10:31. > :10:38.that they killed Abu Saleh, who they described as Islamic
:10:39. > :10:40.State's financial minister. We recently conducted strikes
:10:41. > :10:43.against three leaders in Isil's Their removal will degrade Isil's
:10:44. > :10:52.ability to command and control troops and it disrupts the ability
:10:53. > :10:57.to finance their efforts. But a recent series of attacks
:10:58. > :11:00.on the people running the groups moneymaking activities is just
:11:01. > :11:15.the visible part of an often covert Unfortunately, finance is global, it
:11:16. > :11:19.crosses borders without difficulty and I think the questions we have to
:11:20. > :11:22.ask is what are we doing in Europe? How are we letting up in Europe to
:11:23. > :11:27.tackle terrorist financing? And the Middle East? It does not matter what
:11:28. > :11:32.the US does, frankly, this is a global issue and it needs to be
:11:33. > :11:38.tackled at a global level. Where does IIS get its money? Oil and gas
:11:39. > :11:45.sales provided 55% of revenues in this estimate last year. Foreign
:11:46. > :11:49.sympathisers gave just 2%. Other businesses, taxes and extortion made
:11:50. > :11:53.up the rest would even since this estimate was made, the group has
:11:54. > :12:00.expanded its photo state activities and grown new revenue streams. You
:12:01. > :12:04.might call it broadly extortion and by that I mean a combination of
:12:05. > :12:10.confiscations, I'd write confiscations of course, and
:12:11. > :12:17.taxation. The taxation, for example, takes a variety of forms, like
:12:18. > :12:23.school registration fees, parking fines, driving licence fees,
:12:24. > :12:29.violations of public space regulations and so on and so forth.
:12:30. > :12:34.With oil contributing $40 million every month to IS covers, both
:12:35. > :12:36.Russia and the American led coalition have been hitting the
:12:37. > :12:41.trucks and other facilities used in that business. But Russia blames
:12:42. > :12:47.tricky for facilitating the trade while Western countries highlight
:12:48. > :12:51.President Assad's role in buying the oil so it is hardly a joined up
:12:52. > :12:56.approach. There is a double game going on here and I am sure there
:12:57. > :13:02.was lots of politics behind it. We have started to seek middlemen
:13:03. > :13:06.individuals broke Ringo 's oil transactions, there was a recent
:13:07. > :13:11.example of an individual standing between IS and the resident Assad
:13:12. > :13:14.regime and we're starting to go after those middlemen but it feels
:13:15. > :13:21.like there could be more that could be done. The further they have gone
:13:22. > :13:23.in realising their dream of a caliphate, the greater the half
:13:24. > :13:29.increased their need for money. Running everything from water works
:13:30. > :13:34.to traffic police and schools, they have had to take over salaries as
:13:35. > :13:38.the Syrian and Iraqi governments have cut them off. That means the
:13:39. > :13:45.group large amounts of cash and could be feeling the pinch. Without
:13:46. > :13:50.God, I think they cannot devote necessarily so much to military
:13:51. > :13:57.upkeep. They have had to come up with new ways to find education
:13:58. > :14:01.schemes soapmaking students in Mosul pay most of the bees for printing of
:14:02. > :14:06.textbooks, for instance. There was always the danger with steps of
:14:07. > :14:11.unintended consequences, for example while workers or civil servants
:14:12. > :14:18.thrown onto the mercy of Islamic State and, indeed, its payroll by
:14:19. > :14:22.actions taken by the Cornish. Nevertheless, despite the very
:14:23. > :14:27.different perspectives about, for example, who benefits from the
:14:28. > :14:30.medical world trade, among the partners engaged in action against
:14:31. > :14:37.the group, there is some evidence that attempts to hit it financially
:14:38. > :14:42.are bearing evidence. -- dividends. Birds and Western allies have also
:14:43. > :14:47.made some games on the battlefield yesterday. We capturing this time.
:14:48. > :14:53.Here, Islamic State looted all of the property and enslaved the woman.
:14:54. > :14:57.A reminder not only of the brutality of the organisation but also its
:14:58. > :14:59.ability to take desperate measures against local people if it really
:15:00. > :15:03.feels the financial squeeze. So now, the acting undersecretary
:15:04. > :15:06.at the US Department of the Treasury responsible for terrorism
:15:07. > :15:07.and financial intelligence, The man leading US government
:15:08. > :15:14.efforts to cut off Isis' funds, and indeed throttle the money
:15:15. > :15:16.of other terror groups and of nations which are deemed
:15:17. > :15:18.to pose a security threat. I spoke to him earlier and asked him
:15:19. > :15:34.how much money IS really has Isis, unfortunately, or Isil, is
:15:35. > :15:38.sitting on a tremendous amount of money. We need to be very candid
:15:39. > :15:42.about the threat we face as we try to cut off its access to revenue,
:15:43. > :15:47.but the primary two sources of funding have been oil sales and
:15:48. > :15:49.taxation, or you might call it extortion, of funds from the
:15:50. > :15:55.population in the territory they control. What sort of scale are we
:15:56. > :16:00.talking about? Hundreds of millions a year? Billions? I have no idea. We
:16:01. > :16:05.are talking at least hundreds of millions and it could be the many
:16:06. > :16:08.hundreds of millions. It is difficult, we don't have perfect
:16:09. > :16:13.intelligence when it comes to their revenue streams. As they rolled
:16:14. > :16:16.through, in terms of their initial military campaign, and took over
:16:17. > :16:21.cities like Mosul, they were standing banks which had cash in the
:16:22. > :16:26.vaults and Isil obtained control of those bank vaults. That is the bad
:16:27. > :16:31.news. The good news is that once that money is spent, it is not
:16:32. > :16:38.renewable. The Iraqi government has moved to sever the access of all of
:16:39. > :16:40.those bank branches from Baghdad, so therefore the international
:16:41. > :16:47.financial system. Let's talk about oil. Who on earth is buying oil from
:16:48. > :16:52.Isil? First, Isil is a consuming itself of the oil it pulls out of
:16:53. > :16:56.the ground and also has a population that requires electricity in Iraq
:16:57. > :17:00.and Syria. Interestingly, maybe surprisingly for your viewers, the
:17:01. > :17:05.President Assad regime in Syria is a primary customer of the Isil oil,
:17:06. > :17:09.not withstanding that they are in military complex. Each has something
:17:10. > :17:15.the other one once, money on one side, oil on the other and they have
:17:16. > :17:22.done a bit of trade. What about the other oil that is being sold? How
:17:23. > :17:26.difficult is it to stop that trade? Our focus is actually one phase
:17:27. > :17:31.earlier, not necessarily stopping the transactions, but stopping Isil
:17:32. > :17:34.from bringing the oil to market in the first place. What we have seen
:17:35. > :17:40.over the last series of weeks has been stepped up and very smartly
:17:41. > :17:42.crafted as a campaign by the coalition to conduct military
:17:43. > :17:47.strikes against Isil's oil infrastructure and the oil tankers
:17:48. > :17:52.that they rely on to bring it to market. You are saying that most of
:17:53. > :17:57.the Isil money comes from internal sources? Oil, banks, taxation? But
:17:58. > :18:01.there are donors. There is money given to them from outside and a lot
:18:02. > :18:05.of attention has focused on Saudi Arabian donors. Are you satisfied
:18:06. > :18:11.that the governments in the region are doing enough, and let's focus on
:18:12. > :18:16.Saudi Arabia, to stop their citizens donating to Isil? I tell you, we do
:18:17. > :18:21.not actually see major financial donations coming into Isil. I think
:18:22. > :18:26.the phenomenon we witnessed in the cases of other terror groups, and I
:18:27. > :18:29.would think of Al-Qaeda, Hamas, where you have deep pocket wealthy
:18:30. > :18:33.donors, sometimes in the Gulf states, providing money, and
:18:34. > :18:36.sometimes you have charities that are either abused or intentionally
:18:37. > :18:40.set up to funnel funds to terror groups, we have not seen Isil using
:18:41. > :18:47.those channels in any significant way. Now, in part, they would have a
:18:48. > :18:50.very hard time raising funds in a place like Saudi Arabia. The Saudi
:18:51. > :18:54.Arabian government has come a tremendous distance in terms of
:18:55. > :18:57.setting up a meaningful anti-money-laundering and counter
:18:58. > :19:03.finance regime. They deserve credit for that. -- counterterrorism
:19:04. > :19:09.finance regime. You have to remember that the population in Saudi Arabia
:19:10. > :19:13.sees Isil as a threat, which is true of many of the governments in the
:19:14. > :19:16.region. Isil is carrying out attacks that are killing Muslims. They are
:19:17. > :19:22.killing Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims. This is not a group that is
:19:23. > :19:31.tremendously popular in many corners. How much do you think the
:19:32. > :19:35.economics matters? How much can it achieve compared to air strikes? It
:19:36. > :19:40.will have to be both, no question. Remember what I saw's needs are and
:19:41. > :19:47.its expenditures are. -- Isil's. They are trying to gather territory
:19:48. > :19:52.while fighting a multi-front war against the US, the coalition,
:19:53. > :19:56.Russia and various other entities in the east, including the Iraqi army.
:19:57. > :20:03.That is not a cheap, inexpensive endeavour. So their financial needs
:20:04. > :20:07.massive. To date, they have access to major revenues that allowed them
:20:08. > :20:12.to sustain this, but it would we can start taking real chunk out of their
:20:13. > :20:18.revenue we will see the revenue -- repercussions of that. What has
:20:19. > :20:21.caused a bit of tension between the US and Europe have been enormous
:20:22. > :20:26.penalties, hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars in the
:20:27. > :20:31.case of the French banks, over activities by those banks which were
:20:32. > :20:35.said to be breaking American law because of transactions between the
:20:36. > :20:41.European bank and Iran. Do you think the US has been extraterritorial,
:20:42. > :20:46.overzealous in the way it has punished European banks or some of
:20:47. > :20:50.these transgressions? This was not a stray transaction here and there
:20:51. > :20:53.which happen to find its way into a US bank without the knowledge and
:20:54. > :21:00.intent of the European banks. What we are talking about are intentional
:21:01. > :21:06.patterns, and often a programme designed to be able to access US
:21:07. > :21:12.banks to route money to and from parties like Iran and Sudan that
:21:13. > :21:17.were prohibited under US sanctions. And the intent was manifested in
:21:18. > :21:20.things like scrubbing payment transactions and even setting up
:21:21. > :21:24.computer transactions to find the word Iran and delete it and replace
:21:25. > :21:28.it with something more innocuous. Add Szubin, thank you. -- Adam
:21:29. > :21:33.Szubin. saga of bullying and other
:21:34. > :21:35.unpleasantness among young Conservative activists,
:21:36. > :21:36.and in particular the activities of Mark Clarke, the ambitious
:21:37. > :21:39.organiser who has become something The scandal has gathered pace
:21:40. > :21:42.since the death of young activist Elliott Johnson, who claimed
:21:43. > :21:44.he was bullied by Clarke. But should the party have done more
:21:45. > :21:47.to stop Clarke earlier? James Clayton has new evidence
:21:48. > :22:04.of how long the party has known it The scandal over alleged bullying,
:22:05. > :22:09.blackmail and sexual harassment in the youth wing of the Conservative
:22:10. > :22:13.Party reads like a cut-price version of house of cards. At its heart lies
:22:14. > :22:16.one key question, how much did the party know about the alleged
:22:17. > :22:20.bullying before a stream of complaints were received in August
:22:21. > :22:28.of this year, and what did they do about it? Were you given a dossier
:22:29. > :22:31.about bullying in 2010? Arty children -- Chairman Feldman has
:22:32. > :22:36.said he was unaware of any bullying allegations against Mr Clark until
:22:37. > :22:40.Elliot Johnson and a slew of others submitted complaints in August. Last
:22:41. > :22:46.month, the party said this in response to a Newsnight report. A
:22:47. > :22:50.spokesman told us, we have been checking and rechecking that we have
:22:51. > :22:53.not found any evidence of complaints made not dealt with, but we are
:22:54. > :22:59.determined to get to the bottom of has happened. But now Newsnight has
:23:00. > :23:04.learned that a number of complaints were made about bullying by Clarke
:23:05. > :23:07.as far back as 2008, and intriguingly, one of these was even
:23:08. > :23:12.submitted by a man who is now one of the party's most senior
:23:13. > :23:15.spokespeople, its deputy director of communications. Newsnight has
:23:16. > :23:20.obtained an e-mail to Richard Jackson, and he used to be a Young
:23:21. > :23:27.Conservative activist. The e-mail complains of bullying and abusive
:23:28. > :23:30.behaviour at a hustings of a conservative Future election.
:23:31. > :23:32.Conservative Future being the youth wing of the Conservative Party. It
:23:33. > :23:48.goes on to warn... It is understood Mr Jackson passed
:23:49. > :23:55.on the complaint as well as one of his own to Roger Pratt, the then
:23:56. > :24:00.head of discipline at CCHQ. We also have learned that a file was kept on
:24:01. > :24:03.Clarke before 2009 containing multiple complaints. At least one of
:24:04. > :24:07.those complaints was of a serious nature. It is the latest in a line
:24:08. > :24:14.of disclosures about how much the Conservative Party knew about
:24:15. > :24:18.Clarke. Here is a quick reminder. The young activist Elliot Johnson
:24:19. > :24:23.took his own life in September. He left a note saying he had been
:24:24. > :24:27.bullied by Mark Clarke. In August, complaints were sent to CCHQ about
:24:28. > :24:32.Clarke including a memo from party worker which described him as
:24:33. > :24:38.dangerous to young activists and that Clarke was sociopathic. In
:24:39. > :24:41.2014, a young activist sent an e-mail to a party worker called
:24:42. > :24:45.Chris Scott who said that Clarke had tried to damage my reputation and
:24:46. > :24:51.remove meat from politics. And we have been told that back in 2010, a
:24:52. > :24:56.dossier was handed to CCHQ warning of a culture of bullying. A
:24:57. > :24:59.candidate's report was also compiled in the same year when Clarke lost
:25:00. > :25:04.the bid to win the seat of tooting in London. One witness described his
:25:05. > :25:09.extreme excessive behaviour, verging on violence. We now know of another
:25:10. > :25:14.complaint in 2008 to the deputy director of communications.
:25:15. > :25:20.A NACRO temporary spokesman told us tonight that the 2008 allegations
:25:21. > :25:23.have been dealt with properly and confirmed that Mr Jackson made a
:25:24. > :25:28.complaint. They say the party maintained it could not find any
:25:29. > :25:34.evidence of complaint against Mr Clark, only they could not find
:25:35. > :25:40.complaints about his behaviour on his road trip, which vast young
:25:41. > :25:44.activist around the country in the 2015 election. The emergence of the
:25:45. > :25:48.2008 complaint raises one inconvenient question. If even one
:25:49. > :25:53.of his most senior media operatives had complained about Mr Clarke, how
:25:54. > :25:54.did Lord Feldman remain so blissfully ignorant of the problem
:25:55. > :25:57.for so long? It was at 7.06pm that
:25:58. > :25:59.the long-awaited announcement on the future of airport capacity
:26:00. > :26:02.in the south of England came. Well, it's probably Zac Goldsmith,
:26:03. > :26:09.Tory candidate for London mayor. He'd said he'd resign as MP
:26:10. > :26:12.for his seat near Heathrow So Heathrow didn't get
:26:13. > :26:16.a third runway for now. A decision on a runway will,
:26:17. > :26:20.we are told, definitely come next year, and it will definitely be one
:26:21. > :26:24.of Heathrow or Gatwick. They didn't mention the London
:26:25. > :26:26.mayoral election, but it The indecision could be seen
:26:27. > :26:30.as a set-back for a process that was meant to take the politics
:26:31. > :26:33.out of these decisions. We had a three-year-long
:26:34. > :26:35.investigation by the Airports With me now, the man who is chairing
:26:36. > :26:41.the new National Infrastructure Commission, which is meant
:26:42. > :26:56.to advise government Lord Adonis, thanks to coming in.
:26:57. > :27:00.Your reaction to the delay? We are getting there on a firm decision
:27:01. > :27:04.about air Corps capacity in the south of England -- airport
:27:05. > :27:06.capacity. The big thing was that the analysis of Howard Davies was
:27:07. > :27:12.accepted for the need of a new run rate at Gatwick or Heathrow. It made
:27:13. > :27:14.it clear it would be one of those two airports, so no question of
:27:15. > :27:20.Stansted, the estuary or other options. There are further issues to
:27:21. > :27:24.look at with pollution, which Howard Davies said needed more analysis and
:27:25. > :27:26.there will be a firm decision next summer. It's important to understand
:27:27. > :27:32.that Howard Davies said we needed the runway which is vitally
:27:33. > :27:39.important for the economy, needed by 2030. If a decision is made him --
:27:40. > :27:42.made by then, we could see one at Heathrow or Gatwick. It was said it
:27:43. > :27:50.would be wrong to rush the decision. RB Rice sing the decision? -- are we
:27:51. > :27:54.rushing? It is not over rushed, but there has been 25 years of debate on
:27:55. > :27:57.this. I was transport minister in the last government and we did not
:27:58. > :28:02.rush to take the decision either. You would Transport Secretary and it
:28:03. > :28:05.was your policy, which was to build a runway at Heathrow -- you were.
:28:06. > :28:08.The politicians have not done brilliantly at this. We took the
:28:09. > :28:11.decision at the end of the government and we had ten years and
:28:12. > :28:15.we could have moved on. But we are getting there. On your point about
:28:16. > :28:19.the independent commission process, we would not be where we are today
:28:20. > :28:22.without the work of Howard Davies and his colleagues, and it looks
:28:23. > :28:27.like we are set for a decision. There are other two viable options,
:28:28. > :28:31.next year, it will be Heathrow or Gatwick. I admire your optimism, but
:28:32. > :28:35.this was the first test for the commission structure. The commission
:28:36. > :28:38.look at it and advised and the government can have six months to
:28:39. > :28:45.think about it and then they come to a decision, yes or no, and we have
:28:46. > :28:50.indecision. Are you denying politics is driving the delay on this? I
:28:51. > :28:55.couldn't possibly comment on why next May is a bridge to overcome.
:28:56. > :28:59.They have taken a year over six months, and in the context of 25
:29:00. > :29:03.years, it doesn't matter a great deal. Provided a decision is taken.
:29:04. > :29:12.Because as Howard Davies said, we need the run by by 2030. -- the
:29:13. > :29:15.runway. It is Yes, Minister, we have had an enquiry and the result is to
:29:16. > :29:20.have an enquiry. If it was like that, there would be no commitment.
:29:21. > :29:24.It isn't like that. The decision has taken some time, but the government
:29:25. > :29:27.did say today that it accepts the case for a new runway in the
:29:28. > :29:30.south-east of England which is a controversial proposition and it
:29:31. > :29:34.says it must be Heathrow or Gatwick and now it needs to decide. Can I be
:29:35. > :29:39.clear, if there is not a clear decision next summer, then the
:29:40. > :29:42.commission process, the process by which you have a commission and then
:29:43. > :29:46.politicians decide, that process will have failed and he would not
:29:47. > :29:50.want to be running the National Infrastructure Commission?
:29:51. > :29:56.It would not be a great advert for this process but what the government
:29:57. > :30:02.has done today is a perfectly sensible step forward, to narrow
:30:03. > :30:10.down, as Howard Davies did, the options for Heathrow and Gatwick and
:30:11. > :30:17.look further. Sorry, but had anybody thought we were looking at any other
:30:18. > :30:22.options? The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, said we should still be
:30:23. > :30:26.looking at the estuary. A good part of the work was looking at a
:30:27. > :30:32.completely new airport in the estuary or expanding Stansted and
:30:33. > :30:37.you recommended against those and by narrowing the options to Heathrow
:30:38. > :30:43.and Gatwick... I really thought we really had narrowed it down to
:30:44. > :30:48.Heathrow or Gatwick. I can assure you, it would have been perfectly
:30:49. > :30:55.possible to take no decision. You did back Heathrow as Transport
:30:56. > :30:58.Secretary. Do you support Heathrow? Howard Davies came up with that and
:30:59. > :31:06.that was her personal view, so you support Heathrow? Let us be clear,
:31:07. > :31:10.as chairman of the commission, we're not playing any role in this because
:31:11. > :31:14.Howard Davies has done the review. But I think his report is
:31:15. > :31:19.persuasive, in terms of the massive gains to the economy we will have
:31:20. > :31:25.from a new runway, over ?100 million in terms of economic output and
:31:26. > :31:30.hundreds of thousands of jobs and Heathrow is our most important port
:31:31. > :31:34.in the country in terms of the value of the trade that comes through so
:31:35. > :31:38.this is deadly serious for the future of the country and I do
:31:39. > :31:43.support it but equally, what Howard said was it different recommendation
:31:44. > :31:49.to Heathrow to the one I put forward. Much tougher conditions
:31:50. > :31:52.insurance of pollution, in terms of noise control and entrance of public
:31:53. > :31:57.transport access and the proposal he put forward is one that can command
:31:58. > :32:03.much wider consent than the one we put forward but he says there is a
:32:04. > :32:09.plausible case for Gatwick and that debate will rumble on for a few more
:32:10. > :32:13.months. Not years. Flood defences, I think when the commission was
:32:14. > :32:18.launched, flood defences were mentioned in the list of things in
:32:19. > :32:22.the bag and whilst in Cumbria the Prime Minister said when you have a
:32:23. > :32:28.flood but ask, are we spending enough? Is that high on the entry?
:32:29. > :32:33.People say we are short of what we should be spending, we should be
:32:34. > :32:38.spending a quantum more? As we have seen over the last week, we have to
:32:39. > :32:42.look intensively at improving flood defences and it has only been going
:32:43. > :32:46.for a few weeks so I will not be able to offer instant relief in
:32:47. > :32:51.Cumbria and places dreadfully affected. But it is in our remit and
:32:52. > :32:52.something we will be looking at because it is urgent for the
:32:53. > :32:55.country. Thank you very much indeed. Tomorrow is deadline day
:32:56. > :33:00.for the delegates from more than 100 nations trying to hammer out a deal
:33:01. > :33:02.on tackling climate change Negotiations are expected to run
:33:03. > :33:07.through the night as they strive to agree a plan which is palatable
:33:08. > :33:10.for countries both rich and poor. But we don't need to wait
:33:11. > :33:13.for the outcome to know that one particular place is already
:33:14. > :33:15.being affected by climate change. Mongolia's temperature has already
:33:16. > :33:17.risen by two degrees celsius, and scientists in the landlocked
:33:18. > :33:20.country are warning it could heat up by another four degrees by 2080
:33:21. > :33:23.unless urgent action is taken. The country is scarred
:33:24. > :33:25.by desertification, and it's having a devastating impact on both nomadic
:33:26. > :33:27.herders and the country's wildlife. And sadly, the number of snow
:33:28. > :33:30.leopards is in rapid decline as their natural habitat
:33:31. > :33:36.is encroached upon more and more. Film makers William Davies
:33:37. > :33:38.and Hereward Holland joined a World Wildlife Fund expedition
:33:39. > :33:40.in the Altai-Sayan mountain range in the west of the country,
:33:41. > :33:44.to see what can be done to protect and conserve this iconic
:33:45. > :41:12.and elusive animal. That film was made by William Davis
:41:13. > :41:18.and Hereford Holland. That's it for tonight,
:41:19. > :41:21.Kirsty will be here tomorrow.