15/12/2015

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:00:00. > :00:20.Tonight, we talk to the man who organised it.

:00:21. > :00:27.Suffering from the cold and hot weathers and bad nights and the

:00:28. > :00:33.people here who don't like us because we make a lot of mess here.

:00:34. > :00:38.We have got to go and walk, and see what Europe can do for us.

:00:39. > :00:43.We'll also be focussing on the cause - the war in Syria,

:00:44. > :00:45.hearing from the man in charge of the US-led coalition.

:00:46. > :00:51.We have really never seen anything like this before so it is a global

:00:52. > :00:53.fight, it is a threat to everyone, and something we need a global

:00:54. > :00:54.coalition to confront. As he continues to dominate

:00:55. > :00:58.the polls, Donald Trump's They are talking about Mexican

:00:59. > :01:09.rapists. FROM AUDIENCE: They're

:01:10. > :01:11.talking about the wall! They can only win...

:01:12. > :01:13.They're talking about the wall. I love the idea of the

:01:14. > :01:16.Great Wall of Trump. The polemicist Ann Coulter explains

:01:17. > :01:18.the Trump phenomenon. We've got an official astronaut

:01:19. > :01:22.in space, at last. Newsnight looks back at the lost

:01:23. > :01:24.history of the British Europe is keen to end the year

:01:25. > :01:39.repairing its vision of a continent In the face of a migration crisis

:01:40. > :01:45.and security concerns, It is to bolster

:01:46. > :01:49.the external border. Or to put it another way,

:01:50. > :01:52.it's about helping Greece and Italy cope with those arriving

:01:53. > :01:55.on their shores with a new European Border

:01:56. > :01:58.and Coast Guard. It will replace the Frontex agency

:01:59. > :02:00.which is actually only Well, as the year draws to a close,

:02:01. > :02:06.this programme is looking at the migration issue by catching

:02:07. > :02:09.up on some of the characters whose images were beamed around

:02:10. > :02:11.the continent this summer. In the second of our series -

:02:12. > :02:15.the faces of the migrant crisis - Katie Razzall meets the man behind

:02:16. > :02:18.an event which proved a turning point in how the migrants

:02:19. > :02:49.were perceived and received. It was the moment that changed the

:02:50. > :02:56.course of the refugee crisis. When was this photo taken? In a train

:02:57. > :03:02.station when I was explaining to people what we have to do and how we

:03:03. > :03:10.will walk. That's you? Yes, that's me. When Muhammad led a column of

:03:11. > :03:16.refugees on a march across Hungary, the pictures helps define the scale

:03:17. > :03:20.of the crisis facing Europe. At the start of September, with Hungary

:03:21. > :03:27.cracking down on migrants, thousands were corralled for days in

:03:28. > :03:34.Budapest's main train station. I get this plant that we have got to walk,

:03:35. > :03:40.no one can stop us. I told them, don't be afraid, we can do a break,

:03:41. > :03:44.walk today for eight hours, tomorrow eight hours, and stop every time we

:03:45. > :03:51.are feeling tired. We have got to walk and we have got to not do any

:03:52. > :03:55.mess. The Hungarian people will give us a lot of food and water and

:03:56. > :04:02.everything, and the most important thing is that we don't mess the

:04:03. > :04:09.place or the town or the street. Why did you think that? Because with the

:04:10. > :04:15.cameras shooting us, the European people will see that we are walking

:04:16. > :04:19.and we are doing mess. They say, these people are not good, every

:04:20. > :04:24.time they eat they throw the things in the street and it is not

:04:25. > :04:32.acceptable. Ever strategic, he invited TV crews to join his march.

:04:33. > :04:37.I think the police or the Government cannot hurt us because we will be

:04:38. > :04:46.shot on the TV. You knew about the power of television to protect you.

:04:47. > :04:51.Yes, when I was at the train station I requested three channels, they

:04:52. > :05:00.said, OK we will go with you. This was just days after the Syrian boy

:05:01. > :05:04.washed up on a beach. The migrants' plight was making headlines. Even at

:05:05. > :05:13.night, when negotiating the arrival of bosses, Mohammed made sure the

:05:14. > :05:18.camera was there. I said to them don't be afraid, I am going to send

:05:19. > :05:23.with you a cameraman and I will send with you also one guy, he will have

:05:24. > :05:30.a car and he will follow you. Clearly a natural organiser,

:05:31. > :05:35.Mohammed is still leading. Another march to take asylum seekers to the

:05:36. > :05:40.local gym for a kickabout. A Syrian who used to work in Dubai and found

:05:41. > :05:43.he couldn't go back home when the war started, Mohammed is now in

:05:44. > :05:47.Germany. You were all over the newspapers and

:05:48. > :05:52.the television in September with that march, then you disappeared

:05:53. > :05:58.like everyone else to start your new life. What is your new life like?

:05:59. > :06:02.Sometimes I am walking in the street, I don't feel like I am in

:06:03. > :06:08.Germany, it is like a dream. The place is very nice, the people are

:06:09. > :06:12.very kind. There have been demonstrations against refugees,

:06:13. > :06:18.haven't there? Yes, it is happening, but it is just small people,

:06:19. > :06:28.walking. Me and my friend here, they organised the walk also on Saturday.

:06:29. > :06:32.It is with refugees. And do you think Germany, at some point, will

:06:33. > :06:41.have to say we cannot have any more refugees? I think they will not say

:06:42. > :06:47.this. Why not? I think in Germany they need more people because there

:06:48. > :06:51.is a lot of people here who are really old, and maybe after ten

:06:52. > :06:58.years, 20 years, a lot of houses will be empty. Germany also wants

:06:59. > :07:03.people to work so I think they want more people, they want good people.

:07:04. > :07:08.If you look back to your childhood, as a child would you ever have

:07:09. > :07:16.thought I'm going to go to Germany? Did you know about Germany? When I

:07:17. > :07:23.was a kid, I like to come to Germany because I love cars. I really like

:07:24. > :07:27.BMW and Mercedes. Lots of people in Britain look at pictures of young

:07:28. > :07:32.men coming from Syria as refugees fleeing war, and they say your

:07:33. > :07:35.country is at war, you should be fighting for your country, you

:07:36. > :07:43.should be there fighting. What would you say to that? Actually you have

:07:44. > :07:47.got to ask this question, it is correct to ask this question, but

:07:48. > :07:52.the answer is you don't know which one is fighting for the good. If

:07:53. > :07:56.something is coming from other countries, like for example other

:07:57. > :08:02.countries want to come to Syria and take Syria, and they want to kill

:08:03. > :08:07.people there, we won't go out of Syria and we will fight for our

:08:08. > :08:12.country. So you would have fought against another country invading?

:08:13. > :08:18.Yes, but when you don't know what is the good things and bad things,

:08:19. > :08:25.better to go. There, they are just killing each other. They will go to

:08:26. > :08:32.the army and they will send me to kill my brother or my uncle, this is

:08:33. > :08:36.not acceptable. This is why people go out of Syria, they are running

:08:37. > :08:41.away from the Army. What do you think about other countries like

:08:42. > :08:48.Britain bombing Syria? I agree with this, and this is the solution for

:08:49. > :08:54.them. Because the people who stay in Syria, they are very weak. It is a

:08:55. > :09:00.good thing that the Europeans start to do Army or such things for them.

:09:01. > :09:04.You see yourself as staying in Germany for your whole life? I think

:09:05. > :09:10.I would like to stay here in Germany. I would like to build my

:09:11. > :09:16.future here. Working, having a house, getting married. Spending my

:09:17. > :09:20.life here. I think this is a good place to build my future, it is a

:09:21. > :09:29.good country and everything here is good. And what does he think of his

:09:30. > :09:31.role in this historic moment in the refugee crisis?

:09:32. > :09:36.Do you think you will ever do something like that again in your

:09:37. > :09:41.life? I think no, it is only once in my life and I am going to tell this

:09:42. > :09:43.to my children when I have a family, and they will be proud of this.

:09:44. > :09:47.And you can see the third film in that series tomorrow.

:09:48. > :09:48.From the consequences of a migration crisis,

:09:49. > :10:03.The man in effective charge of the American led coalition

:10:04. > :10:05.fighting so-called Islamic State is President Obama's Special Envoy

:10:06. > :10:09.He's been in post less than two months, but was in London today.

:10:10. > :10:12.A good chance to take stock on the war.

:10:13. > :10:15.In many ways this is different than anything we've faced before.

:10:16. > :10:18.30,000 foreign fighters from all around the world.

:10:19. > :10:20.100 countries of the world, coming into Syria.

:10:21. > :10:23.We have really never seen anything like this before.

:10:24. > :10:36.And it is something we need a global coalition to confront.

:10:37. > :10:43.Just characterise the enemy for me, if you would.

:10:44. > :10:46.Do you see them as rational in any way, in their own terms?

:10:47. > :10:50.There is no question about their overall ideology.

:10:51. > :10:52.There is no question about, as we see them on the ground,

:10:53. > :10:55.in terms of the number of suicide bombers even in just daily

:10:56. > :10:57.engagements, sometimes ten to 12 suicide bombers in

:10:58. > :11:01.We have had in Iraq sometimes 60 suicide bombers in a single month.

:11:02. > :11:03.All the suicide bombers we assess are foreign fighters,

:11:04. > :11:06.so they're coming from all around the world.

:11:07. > :11:12.So people like this cannot be reasoned with and that is why

:11:13. > :11:15.we are determined, as the president said, to destroy Isil.

:11:16. > :11:18.Do they have, what is your best guess, do they have much support

:11:19. > :11:21.on the ground among the population over whom, whose territory

:11:22. > :11:26.So Ramadi, Isil pretended to be the defenders of the people

:11:27. > :11:30.Eventually, when they really took over Ramadi back in May,

:11:31. > :11:33.they cleansed the city of anyone that disagreed with them.

:11:34. > :11:36.They tried to impose their doctrinaire, eighth

:11:37. > :11:40.And now in Ramadi as Iraqi security forces have been

:11:41. > :11:44.on the counterattack for two months and as Daesh is focused on the core

:11:45. > :11:46.centre of the city, they have blown the last bridge,

:11:47. > :11:48.basically isolating themselves in the centre of the city

:11:49. > :11:56.and eventually the Iraqi security forces are confident,

:11:57. > :11:59.it will take some time, we'll clear them from the centre of Ramadi.

:12:00. > :12:02.But importantly, the fighters in Ramadi, based on our information,

:12:03. > :12:04.you have Chechens, you have people speaking Russian,

:12:05. > :12:06.you have Egyptians, you have foreign fighters from all around the world.

:12:07. > :12:08.Holding human shields, the citizens of Ramadi,

:12:09. > :12:12.So any notion that this barbaric terrorist group was serving some

:12:13. > :12:16.sort of legitimate end has really been revealed as a total lie.

:12:17. > :12:21.So the objective is clear, it is to degrade and destroy Isis,

:12:22. > :12:28.it is not to contain or to contain and degrade,

:12:29. > :12:32.it has absolutely moved to destroying them.

:12:33. > :12:38.Everybody says, in order to achieve that goal,

:12:39. > :12:40.there has to be a ground force at some point.

:12:41. > :12:43.And the great mystery of this war has been who's

:12:44. > :12:47.Can you throw any light on who it is going to be that

:12:48. > :12:54.Well, it's different forces in different parts.

:12:55. > :13:00.Let me go around the Horn, I will go clockwise.

:13:01. > :13:04.So if you just take Syria and Iraq and the core, again this is not

:13:05. > :13:07.just about the core, it is the networks and affiliates.

:13:08. > :13:09.But it really is the core that we have to focus on,

:13:10. > :13:16.To the west of the Euphrates River there is about a 98 kilometre strip

:13:17. > :13:18.of border which Daesh still controls, with Turkey.

:13:19. > :13:20.We are working that very aggressively with the Turks

:13:21. > :13:24.And also with a group of Sunni opposition forces near the town

:13:25. > :13:27.of Mara, which we call the Mara line, to begin pushing

:13:28. > :13:31.But I will say the Russian air campaign has made

:13:32. > :13:35.The Russians say they are attacking Daesh, and they are in some

:13:36. > :13:37.respects, but they're also attacking moderate opposition forces

:13:38. > :13:41.So the Russians have made that particular terrain a little

:13:42. > :13:44.So in that part, Sunni Arab opposition forces.

:13:45. > :13:46.East of the Euphrates, the entire border region with Turkey

:13:47. > :13:51.It is Syrian Kurds and also increasingly Arabs and Christians,

:13:52. > :13:55.which we are prepared to work with to push down and isolate Raqqa.

:13:56. > :13:57.Those forces are actually having some real success.

:13:58. > :13:59.Over to the east near the Iraqi border they have now cleared

:14:00. > :14:01.an operation in just the last three weeks,

:14:02. > :14:33.1000 square kilometres of very critical terrain.

:14:34. > :14:40.We hope to continue and advance this process and eventually begin to

:14:41. > :14:50.de-escalate the conflict between the opposition and the regime. 70,000

:14:51. > :15:04.would-be above your own estimate? I think it is with -- within our own

:15:05. > :15:07.estimate. We cannot get to a ceasefire unless we have a very

:15:08. > :15:12.credible political process, but that will free up an awful lot of force

:15:13. > :15:13.to focus on extremist groups. Special envoy Brett McGurk, thank

:15:14. > :15:15.you. The last official inflation figure

:15:16. > :15:17.to be published this year was released this morning,

:15:18. > :15:19.and continued the extraordinary pattern that's been

:15:20. > :15:21.with us through 2015. Not deflation, but not

:15:22. > :15:28.really inflation either. This year of no-flation

:15:29. > :15:31.is another of those massive To think that two years ago,

:15:32. > :15:35.Bank of England economists were expecting inflation now

:15:36. > :15:40.to be at the target 2%. We'll be looking back and looking

:15:41. > :15:47.ahead with two commentators in a moment, but first

:15:48. > :15:50.think about this year. As a measure of what a special year

:15:51. > :15:54.this has been, just have a look That flat bit at the end,

:15:55. > :16:02.that's inflation This is how far you have to go back

:16:03. > :16:14.to get to a comparable period. Yes, all the way back to 1960,

:16:15. > :16:17.when Harold Macmillan was Prime Minister, so long ago

:16:18. > :16:19.no-one had even heard Now there is another way this year

:16:20. > :16:38.has been interesting. 2015 saw the end of the long great

:16:39. > :16:38.squeeze. Post-crash, we've had the longest

:16:39. > :16:40.fall in average wages that Inflation - the red line,

:16:41. > :16:44.was above pay rises - the blue one, leaving

:16:45. > :16:51.ordinary people worse off. Years in which companies have had it

:16:52. > :17:04.easy, profits have been high and workers have

:17:05. > :17:07.suffered, has shifted. Not from higher wages note,

:17:08. > :17:10.but from lower inflation. Well, inflation probably can't

:17:11. > :17:16.stay as low as it is, as oil prices can't

:17:17. > :17:19.keep falling as much as they have. tomorrow and we could follow

:17:20. > :17:24.in the next 18 months. New hazards may come along,

:17:25. > :17:26.but at least at last, we've had the first proper

:17:27. > :17:32.respite since the crash. Well, joining me now to chew over

:17:33. > :17:35.all of this are George Magnus, the economist and writer,

:17:36. > :17:37.and Rain Newton-Smith who is the head of

:17:38. > :17:50.economics for the CBI. Welcome. George, this year is

:17:51. > :17:59.interesting, did you see it coming. The has has performed this year was

:18:00. > :18:09.pretty double. -- predictable. The alp turned is not bad. -- out turn.

:18:10. > :18:13.Low inflation also was not a surprise, what we did not see was a

:18:14. > :18:20.further drop in oil prices which has just begun. The scorecard for the

:18:21. > :18:28.year probably better than you could have hoped for. Rain, has it been

:18:29. > :18:33.OK, for business, our businesses seeing profits squeezed with low

:18:34. > :18:39.prices or do they love the low oil prices. If you talk to businesses as

:18:40. > :18:43.a whole they see the UK as one of the bright lights in the global

:18:44. > :18:47.economy this year and in the next couple of years, driven by the twin

:18:48. > :18:51.engines of consumption and investment. One of the things that

:18:52. > :18:58.struck me talking to businesses for the past six months is how resilient

:18:59. > :19:02.the recovery is. It is more related to the sector you're in how you feel

:19:03. > :19:09.about that and party that is how oil prices affect businesses and the

:19:10. > :19:13.exchange rate. Living standards were a big thing this year, years of

:19:14. > :19:22.unpleasantness for working households on average, that turned.

:19:23. > :19:24.Can that continue. Of course economic slipknot known as the

:19:25. > :19:31.dismal science for nothing. It would be churlish not to sound a little

:19:32. > :19:35.note of caution for the year ahead. Everyone has their own favourite

:19:36. > :19:41.issues they worry about. The three things I worry about in the UK,

:19:42. > :19:45.productivity, which has started to turn after years of terrible

:19:46. > :19:52.performance. The hourly output. Exactly. The efficiency of labour.

:19:53. > :19:57.We have got to be, we hopefully can be confident that will keep going.

:19:58. > :20:02.If not then the real incomes you pointed out in your package will

:20:03. > :20:07.start to go in the other direction. Secondly is investment, although

:20:08. > :20:11.that has picked up, the rate of investment in the UK is still many

:20:12. > :20:17.percentage points of GDP lower than ten or 15 years ago. And third, the

:20:18. > :20:22.corrosive impact of inter-generational inequality. The

:20:23. > :20:26.difference between the way in which older citizens have made out during

:20:27. > :20:32.the last few years and younger people. Young people really in terms

:20:33. > :20:38.of income, housing, affordability, education, they have been screwed.

:20:39. > :20:46.That is a terrible condition, it is corrosive. I think it should be a

:20:47. > :20:52.big issue for the government. Do you agree with that. I think over the

:20:53. > :20:59.longer term there is a concern about some intergenerational shifts we're

:21:00. > :21:04.seeing at the moment. In a way the key to improved living standards in

:21:05. > :21:08.the long term is productivity as George said. On that we are seeing

:21:09. > :21:14.encouraging signs, economists have got it wrong before so we do need to

:21:15. > :21:16.have some humility. But I think we expect business investment to

:21:17. > :21:20.contribute around one third of growth in the next couple of years

:21:21. > :21:24.and that should help productivity now and in the future. And there was

:21:25. > :21:30.room for upward expansion in productivity, it is an opportunity

:21:31. > :21:36.as well as a problem. Well we can ask where this goes now because

:21:37. > :21:41.interest rate, tomorrow the US will make the decision. Expect patient is

:21:42. > :21:49.they will move. What do you expect for the UK. Things have changed a

:21:50. > :21:54.lot. Mark Carney said earlier this year he thought the situation would

:21:55. > :21:59.become clear by the end of the year and he said today it is not clear!

:22:00. > :22:06.So the consensus seems to be interest rates in the UK will not

:22:07. > :22:11.move until the end of 2016 or even to those on they may go earlier, by

:22:12. > :22:17.the middle of the year I think we will have the first rise in rates.

:22:18. > :22:24.Well we are at the point at which there is no inflation. We do not

:22:25. > :22:27.want to make the mistake of looking at inflation now and making a

:22:28. > :22:30.decision on policy based on that, we need to look to the future and when

:22:31. > :22:35.we talk to businesses they speak about skill shortages and how

:22:36. > :22:42.difficult it is to find the right people to expand their business. I

:22:43. > :22:45.think that is why all eyes are on the labour market and whether we

:22:46. > :22:51.could see page picking up more strongly than expected. What is the

:22:52. > :23:00.CBI predicting for growth next year. 2.5%. Sort of average. It is a lot

:23:01. > :23:05.of consensus around the UK economy but there is a lot of fragility as

:23:06. > :23:10.well and concerns around some global risks. But also whether some

:23:11. > :23:11.headwinds could have more of an impact on investment than we

:23:12. > :23:14.currently expect. In less than two hours,

:23:15. > :23:16.Donald Trump will take part in the latest US Republican

:23:17. > :23:19.Presidential TV debate in Las Vegas. Other candidates will of course be

:23:20. > :23:22.there, but in truth, the debate in the Republican party

:23:23. > :23:25.is mainly about Mr Trump. He continues to flourish

:23:26. > :23:28.in the polls, notwithstanding his controversial proposal that foreign

:23:29. > :23:30.Muslims should be barred He is not the bookies' favourite

:23:31. > :23:35.to be next president, One of his supporters, possibly even

:23:36. > :23:41.one of his inspirations, is the right wing polemicist

:23:42. > :23:43.and best-selling author Ann Coulter. She introduced Trump,

:23:44. > :23:46.and praised his stance on immigration, at a campaign

:23:47. > :23:50.rally in Iowa in August. Since Donald Trump has announced

:23:51. > :23:54.he's running for president, I can't believe I turn on TV,

:23:55. > :24:00.he's on prime time TV every night about anchor babies,

:24:01. > :24:03.they're talking about sanctuary cities, they're talking

:24:04. > :24:06.about Mexican rapists. FROM AUDIENCE: They're

:24:07. > :24:08.talking about the wall! They can only win...

:24:09. > :24:11.They're talking about the wall. I love the idea of the

:24:12. > :24:18.Great Wall of Trump. Well, Ann Coulter joins

:24:19. > :24:20.us now from Las Vegas, where that debate

:24:21. > :24:26.is soon to be held. Is it correct that Donald Trump took

:24:27. > :24:33.some inspiration from you, Is it correct that Donald Trump took

:24:34. > :24:40.talked about Mexican rapists before he talked about them. I have tried

:24:41. > :24:45.to push the immigration issue on a lot of Republican candidates. A few

:24:46. > :24:51.in particular I had long conversations with. And sent

:24:52. > :24:57.advanced copies of my book adios America too. Donald Trump saw me in

:24:58. > :25:03.an interview one week before my book came out, I was on the way to the

:25:04. > :25:09.airport in Miami and got an e-mail from him asking for an advanced copy

:25:10. > :25:14.of my book. My book has a lot of startling facts in it and is

:25:15. > :25:17.carefully documented. I think it is the first time there was a lot of

:25:18. > :25:21.discussion about a lot of the criminal cultures and launched my

:25:22. > :25:29.country and the country just has no unity to that. -- immunity. We are

:25:30. > :25:34.used to criminals being dumb and living there DNA all over the place.

:25:35. > :25:38.A lot of people come into the country have a lot of criminal

:25:39. > :25:45.habits, massive insurance frauds, and we have no immunity to that.

:25:46. > :25:48.Have you had contact with European counterparts who think in a similar

:25:49. > :25:52.way to you, the National front in France for example, are you talking

:25:53. > :26:00.to these guys or in completely separate worlds. I guess I wish you

:26:01. > :26:04.the best, I used to like to go on vacation there but I am American and

:26:05. > :26:11.care about America. As we are finding out, so do a lot of

:26:12. > :26:15.Americans. I want to talk to the language and tone of the campaign.

:26:16. > :26:21.You have used words referring to Muslims or people of Arab descent,

:26:22. > :26:29.rag headed camel jockey, is that right. It was a joke and a funny

:26:30. > :26:32.joke and people did laugh. You have to give the full context of my

:26:33. > :26:38.remarks. It is interesting, Donald Trump I do not think is used these

:26:39. > :26:45.kind of terms. He has steered clear, why do you think he does not use

:26:46. > :26:48.that language? I think you're wrong, I think we used similar language and

:26:49. > :26:55.get attacked in the same way which is completely lifting little

:26:56. > :27:00.snippets out and acting as if it was said with earnest anger which is why

:27:01. > :27:05.two weeks after Donald Trump announced I brought some Hollywood

:27:06. > :27:08.friends speaking out to group in LA and they were sceptical of him. They

:27:09. > :27:12.walked out of the room saying that they laughed more than they do at

:27:13. > :27:19.comedy clubs. He is extremely funny and when you see these clips of him,

:27:20. > :27:24.or of me, where you cut off the point, cut off the job, it is just

:27:25. > :27:29.one of the many ways that the media lies. I think in much of western

:27:30. > :27:35.society people would avoid making jokes using racially disparaging

:27:36. > :27:38.words. I wonder if you think it is acceptable or would be helpful to

:27:39. > :27:43.the Donald Trump campaign if he started to use racist language more

:27:44. > :27:51.overtly. I do not use racist language. You have to go back to a

:27:52. > :27:57.speech from 2006 and take two words from a joke, a joke about political

:27:58. > :28:02.correctness. And things going on in the world at that time. 10,000

:28:03. > :28:07.people in the room laughed, that is funny. What Donald Trump is doing is

:28:08. > :28:12.not, the big issue of the campaign is immigration. A lot of that has to

:28:13. > :28:18.do with this always being the pushback. We try to speak about what

:28:19. > :28:24.is good for the country and the only response is to hear epithets, you

:28:25. > :28:30.are racist, you are a bigot. He is challenging that as well, that PC

:28:31. > :28:33.regime that people are fed up with. I'm getting a slightly different

:28:34. > :28:38.point, whether the tone that you adopt and which I think he has been

:28:39. > :28:42.less adopting off, whether that tone is helpful to the cause you're

:28:43. > :28:48.trying to promote. Whether for example using terms that disparage

:28:49. > :28:55.people weren't that are rather coarse in the way you characterise

:28:56. > :28:58.people, it is whether that makes those people better American

:28:59. > :29:02.citizens and better disposed to you and less happy to think of you

:29:03. > :29:06.getting killed in a terrorist outrage. It is whether these things

:29:07. > :29:13.work or not. I call it funny. The New York Times euphemism for funny

:29:14. > :29:19.is Softworks. Other people find it funny and it is a good way to get

:29:20. > :29:25.the message across. People do listen to me and of course, Winston

:29:26. > :29:30.Churchill gave speeches, of course he was self promoting, that is how

:29:31. > :29:35.you get heard. And to be nit-picking a joke from eight years ago, it

:29:36. > :29:40.shows you the pushback whenever we try to talk about immigration which

:29:41. > :29:43.is driving down wages. Every one of your topics tonight, it is a

:29:44. > :29:49.question of immigration. Dumping more and more poor and needy people,

:29:50. > :29:53.demanding people, on the country, who sometimes flip up and commit

:29:54. > :30:01.mass murder. But we cannot talk about that. I have not said you

:30:02. > :30:05.cannot talk about immigration. We are talking about my language. That

:30:06. > :30:11.was the languished you used, not immigration. One thing I do not

:30:12. > :30:17.understand about Donald Trump, what he says about his daughter. Yes,

:30:18. > :30:21.she's really something, what a beauty. If I were not happily

:30:22. > :30:28.married and did not know her father... Or perhaps I would be

:30:29. > :30:31.dating her. And a reference to her in Playboy magazine. What is he

:30:32. > :30:47.talking about? He's just being funny that he has an

:30:48. > :30:50.attractive daughter. He is famous for dating models, it is

:30:51. > :30:55.self-deprecating. He is saying I have a beautiful daughter, a lot of

:30:56. > :31:04.fathers say that about their daughters. You are against gay

:31:05. > :31:10.marriage. What's worse, two men getting married or a 69-year-old

:31:11. > :31:19.talking about dating his daughter, which is more creepy? I thought we

:31:20. > :31:26.got our sense of humour from the British! He says his daughter is

:31:27. > :31:30.pretty, and again we are nit-picking a joke rather than discussing the

:31:31. > :31:36.important issues of the day, which is that Donald Trump is soaring in

:31:37. > :31:40.the polls because he is the only one talking about immigration, something

:31:41. > :31:44.American people have been asking for for 40 years. After this debate

:31:45. > :31:48.there will be no one else on stage and Donald Tripp will have to start

:31:49. > :31:50.doing card tricks or something because they will be wiped out.

:31:51. > :31:51.Thank you. You probably didn't know

:31:52. > :31:54.there was such a thing as a digital age of consent, so it can only be

:31:55. > :31:58.a surprise a proposal is afoot The most striking consequence

:31:59. > :32:12.would be that no one would be able to process data of an under

:32:13. > :32:13.16-year-old So young teens would not be able

:32:14. > :32:17.to go on social media Which raises the question -

:32:18. > :32:21.is social media a healthy pastime Joining me now from Dublin

:32:22. > :32:30.are Mary Aiken, a cyber psychologist and adviser to the UN on this issue,

:32:31. > :32:43.and vlogger Lex Croucher. Mary, what do you think is the

:32:44. > :32:48.problem with 13, 14, 15-year-olds unregulated by adults going into

:32:49. > :32:53.social media sites? The issue we are talking about at the moment, the

:32:54. > :33:00.current guidelines centre on those who are under 13. What we know in

:33:01. > :33:03.terms of studies is that 39% of 9-12 -year-olds have social media

:33:04. > :33:08.accounts. Clearly the current guidelines are not being adhered to.

:33:09. > :33:14.This is another step forward in terms of data protection, where the

:33:15. > :33:19.EU is proposing to adjust that age to 16, which effectively means

:33:20. > :33:22.15-year-olds and under. Take me through what some of the

:33:23. > :33:28.psychological problems are with those 15-year-olds being on Facebook

:33:29. > :33:33.chatting to each other and whatever. I think chatting on Facebook doesn't

:33:34. > :33:37.cause psychological problems, I think the issue is about periods of

:33:38. > :33:44.development. For example, if you take a young child who is eight or

:33:45. > :33:48.nine and develops a large network, really are they developmentally

:33:49. > :33:54.mature enough to be able to cope with huge numbers of friends,

:33:55. > :33:58.whether they are eight, nine, ten or 11, and particularly prior to

:33:59. > :34:04.fundamental development periods such as Ericsson 's identity formation,

:34:05. > :34:13.which happens between nine, ten, 11, 12, 13. There's a recommended number

:34:14. > :34:19.in cyber psychology, for relationships it is actually 150. As

:34:20. > :34:23.humans, once we build networks beyond that number, we begin to

:34:24. > :34:29.suffer from social stress and exhaustion. Can you imagine the

:34:30. > :34:40.burden for very young children with thousands of connections? Lex, how

:34:41. > :34:46.many Facebook friends do you have? Not that many, only about 300. Do

:34:47. > :34:52.you recognise any of this problem Mary was describing? I think when we

:34:53. > :34:57.are talking about 9-12 -year-olds, that's a bit of a different issue

:34:58. > :35:03.but I also see different changes coming about. I find that people who

:35:04. > :35:09.have similar interests may be made friends they wouldn't be able to on

:35:10. > :35:15.the Internet. So you can find niche groups. You are in your 20s now and

:35:16. > :35:20.you started at what age? I was on social media forums from the age of

:35:21. > :35:25.about 14. So you would have been affected by the raising of the age.

:35:26. > :35:30.Mary, take me through what it goes to somebody in a state of

:35:31. > :35:38.development, the harm it can do to them. What harm can come to someone

:35:39. > :35:45.who is 14 or 15, and has created an avatar online and they are out there

:35:46. > :35:49.being that person? It is an interesting construct. As a

:35:50. > :35:54.behavioural scientist, this is an area we study. I think behavioural

:35:55. > :35:59.scientists are lagging behind in terms of being able to advise

:36:00. > :36:03.caregivers in relation to these issues. For example, if a child

:36:04. > :36:09.creates an idealised version of themselves on a social media site,

:36:10. > :36:14.which is a highly manipulated self, I mean physically manipulated,

:36:15. > :36:18.better skin, more shiny hair, stretched to be five pounds lighter,

:36:19. > :36:27.that virtual self may be increasingly distant from the

:36:28. > :36:28.real-world self which can lead to psychological conflict,

:36:29. > :36:35.hypothetically. I conduct research in this area, we are looking at

:36:36. > :36:39.these transitions over time. In ten years we will be able to tell you

:36:40. > :36:44.the impact of spending that amount of time on social media for children

:36:45. > :36:48.at certain ages, but we would recommend that we don't have to wait

:36:49. > :36:56.for the longitudinal studies and we pay attention to the issues now.

:36:57. > :37:01.That's interesting, that there is a gulf between the online self and

:37:02. > :37:06.your real self, is that true of you, do you think? Were you jealous of

:37:07. > :37:11.others with clean skin and fewer spots online? It was a different

:37:12. > :37:15.culture from the ten years ago, so these issues might be more prevalent

:37:16. > :37:19.now. I just felt I made more connections with people, I found

:37:20. > :37:23.friends online that I couldn't interact with in person so for me it

:37:24. > :37:28.was positive experience but the culture is changing. Do you agree

:37:29. > :37:33.with changing the age and saying you have got to have parental consent? I

:37:34. > :37:41.just cannot see how it would be enforced. Would you advise parents,

:37:42. > :37:48.Mary, to say yes to their 14-year-old who says can I go on

:37:49. > :37:55.Facebook? If the law stipulated that they should be 16, I would never

:37:56. > :37:58.advise a parent... But that law would state with parental permission

:37:59. > :38:07.you could go on. What an adult into that space that is at the moment not

:38:08. > :38:11.governed with an authority figure. I think it depends on the child.

:38:12. > :38:16.Parents are best placed to decide how their child should proceed on a

:38:17. > :38:20.particular platform, but I would also question, how much do parents

:38:21. > :38:25.really know about what their children are doing online? When an

:38:26. > :38:30.app is developed to allow a minor to take an explicit image and send it

:38:31. > :38:35.and the image dissolves, now you are into an ethical and moral issue. We

:38:36. > :38:39.have just had a case in Colorado where a group of young people were

:38:40. > :38:47.using ghost apps which effectively can look like a screen calculator,

:38:48. > :38:54.with collections of images which they were sharing, and parents had

:38:55. > :39:00.no idea. Mary, we do need to stop now. I know there are many parents

:39:01. > :39:04.desperate for advice of the kind you can give. Thank you to you both.

:39:05. > :39:08.There is no doubt what has been the top story of the day

:39:09. > :39:11.British man gets to space, without having to emigrate

:39:12. > :39:15.Well done to flight engineer Tim Peake who arrived at the door

:39:16. > :39:18.of the space station at half past five and who had to wait another two

:39:19. > :39:22.Well done to flight engineer Tim Peake who arrived at the door

:39:23. > :39:26.of the space station at half past five and who had to wait another two

:39:27. > :39:29.It's like the immigration queue at JFK.

:39:30. > :39:31.Tim Peake is described as the first "official" British astronaut,

:39:32. > :39:34.but don't let that mislead you - Britain is not a newcomer

:39:35. > :39:37.to the space race, though many schemes have sadly

:39:38. > :39:39.Talking of which, here's Stephen Smith.

:39:40. > :39:42.Perhaps to Tim Peake's surprise, he is on the left here,

:39:43. > :39:44.and certainly to ours, Britain has found herself

:39:45. > :39:48.involved in a bone fide space launch today.

:39:49. > :39:54.You might never guess at the heartache and manly tears

:39:55. > :39:57.witnessed in lonely corners of our island as the unsung British

:39:58. > :40:03.space programme struggled for liftoff.

:40:04. > :40:05.My name is Doug Millard and I am the space

:40:06. > :40:17.The secret history goes right the way back to

:40:18. > :40:23.We had a rocket called Skylark and that was one of the first

:40:24. > :40:29.Way back in something called the international geophysical year.

:40:30. > :40:31.The rocket downstairs, that was built on

:40:32. > :40:37.At least it was tested on the Isle of Wight.

:40:38. > :40:45.Black Arrow launched a British satellite in 1971.

:40:46. > :40:50.The Americans launched their rocket from Cape Canaveral,

:40:51. > :41:08.Multicoloured sand and chalet bungalows.

:41:09. > :41:17.There is a glorious juxtaposition, so you have

:41:18. > :41:18.a satellite manufacturing centre in Stevenage.

:41:19. > :41:20.You have smaller satellites being put together in Guildford.

:41:21. > :41:23.There is a bit of a spacecraft that landed on Titan,

:41:24. > :41:30.Saturn's largest moon, it is about the size of a pencil

:41:31. > :41:34.and that was built, well they started building it

:41:35. > :41:36.in Canterbury and then they moved up to Milton Keynes.

:41:37. > :41:40.The first bit of that spacecraft to hit Titan was made in England.

:41:41. > :41:42.Is that the nose cone or is that the foot?

:41:43. > :41:51.So it is a little thing about the size of a pen.

:41:52. > :42:02.And it actually went kind of crzsssh.

:42:03. > :42:03.Tim Peake arrives on the International Space Station

:42:04. > :42:12.Even though he has put years of British

:42:13. > :42:15.underachievement in space behind him, some things never change.

:42:16. > :42:17.With classic English reserve, the astronaut keeps his feet

:42:18. > :42:35.I think you would call today a spectacular day in the office.

:42:36. > :42:44.You may remember the story of Lonesome George.

:42:45. > :42:47.He was the century-old tortoise left wandering alone for decades

:42:48. > :42:49.after all of the other Pinta Island tortoises died out.

:42:50. > :42:52.His death in 2012 was thought to be the end of his species.

:42:53. > :42:57.An expedition in the Galapagos Islands has discovered

:42:58. > :42:59.what scientists believes are some of his blood

:43:00. > :43:01.With careful breeding, they're hoping they can

:43:02. > :43:07.So, we thought we'd leave you with some of George's best bits.

:43:08. > :43:26.# I hope I live to relive the days gone by.

:43:27. > :43:35.# Well tonight I'm gonna live for today.