:00:00. > :00:08.It was a reshuffle designed to bring unity around the Shadow Cabinet
:00:09. > :00:17.Three walk-outs later, the party stands as divided as ever.
:00:18. > :00:20.I don't think we can ever have a process like this ever again.
:00:21. > :00:23.The last few weeks, all of the briefing,
:00:24. > :00:31.which everybody tells me has come straight from the leader's office.
:00:32. > :00:36.We need to know exactly what has happened.
:00:37. > :00:39.The arguments go on - we'll ask is there anything that
:00:40. > :00:42.After dozens of attacks on women in Cologne,
:00:43. > :00:57.Germany's divided on how welcoming to be to migrants and refugees.
:00:58. > :01:09.The latest hot watch - dot-macro making a murderer.
:01:10. > :01:12.But are you equipped to take a view on a real life murder,
:01:13. > :01:29.Because you're watching this, you may not realise that the latest
:01:30. > :01:32.series of Celebrity Big Brother got going on Channel 5 yesterday.
:01:33. > :01:34.It's long, it's drawn out, it's a melodrama that runs all hours
:01:35. > :01:37.of day and night involving the comings and goings of people
:01:38. > :01:41.most of whom you've never heard of, and who seem to share only one thing
:01:42. > :01:46.Let's talk about the Labour reshuffle.
:01:47. > :01:47.Yesterday saw actual shadow cabinet changes,
:01:48. > :01:55.And another three changes caused by resignations.
:01:56. > :01:57.It's been a restive few days in the Labour ranks,
:01:58. > :01:59.a testing week for shadow cabinet discipline,
:02:00. > :02:00.and in fairness, cabinet discipline too.
:02:01. > :02:02.Is it all settled in the Labour Party now?
:02:03. > :02:16.it was in the dying minutes of yesterday that Labour's reshuffle
:02:17. > :02:20.was supposed to be finalised. The Shadow Foreign Secretary, apparently
:02:21. > :02:32.in jeopardy but then received. The shadow culture secretary was sacked
:02:33. > :02:35.for disloyalty and incompetence replaced by someone who didn't agree
:02:36. > :02:43.with the leader to be replaced by Emily Thornbury. This was the
:02:44. > :02:49.picture as we left it last night, as Westminster went to bed. These
:02:50. > :02:51.changes set in motion a ripple of discontent that spread through the
:02:52. > :02:59.rest of the Labour Parliamentary party. By morning it had led to
:03:00. > :03:05.resignations. One shadow minister resigned live on this morning's
:03:06. > :03:08.daily politics. Are you considering your position? I have just written
:03:09. > :03:16.to Jeremy Corbyn to resign from the front bench. It was clear a common
:03:17. > :03:21.theme was concerned, the reshuffle had moved Labour further towards
:03:22. > :03:25.unilateralism. He has appointed Emily Thornbury, who is closer in
:03:26. > :03:30.his views on Trident. But the fact of the matter is, we have got to be
:03:31. > :03:38.credible on defence in the country. Another common concern in the three
:03:39. > :03:42.resignations, how the shadow Europe minister, Pat McFadden, was treated.
:03:43. > :03:49.Sacked for what was seen as a thinly veiled criticism of Jeremy Corbyn's
:03:50. > :03:53.approach to terrorism. It sees terrorists act as being a response
:03:54. > :03:58.to what we in the West do. For Jonathan Reynolds, up until this
:03:59. > :04:03.morning the shadow rail minister, the reason given for Pat Mac
:04:04. > :04:07.hadn't's sacking was the last straw. I am concerned by sacking him and
:04:08. > :04:10.making the statement we will give the public the wrong impression
:04:11. > :04:14.about Labour national-security issues. I think it would be a
:04:15. > :04:20.fundamental mistake to let people think we endorse the view. Somehow
:04:21. > :04:27.we in the west always to blame but active terrorism. Smith said the
:04:28. > :04:33.reshuffle was necessary to give Labour a coherent voice. It is
:04:34. > :04:36.important we are united against the government and holding it to
:04:37. > :04:42.account. The party has been united on domestic issues. We have seen a
:04:43. > :04:46.U-turn on tax credits and a reversal of the proposed cuts to police
:04:47. > :04:50.funding which would have affected my constituency in Lancashire. Where we
:04:51. > :04:55.have had more variety of opinions has been on foreign policy and
:04:56. > :04:58.defence. This reshuffle have seen Jeremy Corbyn strengthen his
:04:59. > :05:01.position within the party to ensure we have a coherent message coming
:05:02. > :05:05.out from the Labour Party when it comes to holding the government to
:05:06. > :05:08.account. Part of the Parliamentary Labour Party have been traumatised
:05:09. > :05:13.by the reshuffle of the past few days and the briefings that preceded
:05:14. > :05:17.it. They want to find out why, in their view, this has been so badly
:05:18. > :05:22.handled. I don't think we can ever have a process like this again. It
:05:23. > :05:26.has been a complete disaster. The last few weeks, all of the briefing,
:05:27. > :05:30.which everybody tells me it has come straight from the leader's office.
:05:31. > :05:35.We need to know exactly what has happened. The party needs to look at
:05:36. > :05:40.this and we need answers from the leader's office. We need assurances
:05:41. > :05:46.it will never happen again. We cannot have a situation where senior
:05:47. > :05:50.shadow ministers are reading in the press they will be sacked and they
:05:51. > :05:56.are being picked off one by one. MPs will want assurances this never
:05:57. > :06:02.happens again. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. As the Labour
:06:03. > :06:06.leader appeared at Prime Minister's Questions, he had a Shadow Cabinet
:06:07. > :06:11.more in step with his thinking. Back can only help him. It is also clear
:06:12. > :06:14.he has had to pay a political price for this in worsening relations with
:06:15. > :06:18.some of the people sitting behind him.
:06:19. > :06:23.Joining me now is Diane Abbott, the Secretary of State for International
:06:24. > :06:32.Development. Very good evening. What an interesting three days.
:06:33. > :06:37.Let's clarify the rules of engagement. Hilary Benn, I think he
:06:38. > :06:43.said, you will go on exactly as before. John Macdonald described as
:06:44. > :06:47.what described as a change in the rules of engagement. Where do you
:06:48. > :06:53.stand on that? Jeremy has never been more popular with party members.
:06:54. > :06:57.What party members want to see is a Shadow Cabinet, people at the top of
:06:58. > :07:01.the party, reflecting the views of the party. What happened over Syria
:07:02. > :07:07.is Hilary Benn was reflecting his own views. The majority of the
:07:08. > :07:11.Shadow Cabinet voted with Jeremy. What is being asked is not unusual,
:07:12. > :07:15.just a measure of collective responsibility. Has something
:07:16. > :07:19.changed for the way Hilary Benn has to be head, or has nothing changed?
:07:20. > :07:25.Party members would like to think that when Hilary Benn gets up at the
:07:26. > :07:29.dispatch box, he will be reflecting the policies of the Labour Party. In
:07:30. > :07:35.that sense, that is what it should always have been. Let's pretend the
:07:36. > :07:39.Syria vote was being held next week and the debate is next week. Take me
:07:40. > :07:43.through how different it would be, there wouldn't be a free vote on
:07:44. > :07:51.Syria? Where would you go and that now? There is no merit are reliving
:07:52. > :07:56.history. What we are clear about as a team, we don't want a rerun of a
:07:57. > :08:01.position where the Shadow Foreign Secretary is not reflecting the
:08:02. > :08:09.views of the party. That is why you had a free vote? For me on the back
:08:10. > :08:13.ventures exercising my free vote and the Shadow Home Secretary getting up
:08:14. > :08:18.at the dispatch box and saying things that don't reflect the views
:08:19. > :08:22.of the party. Can Hilary Benn now speak in favour of Trident? It
:08:23. > :08:29.depends on the party policy. That was set at the party conference. We
:08:30. > :08:34.are about to review party policy. He cannot speak in favour of Trident
:08:35. > :08:41.now? You don't seem clear. I am perfectly clear. What the party
:08:42. > :08:45.looks for is the team at the top of the party that reflects a Labour
:08:46. > :08:48.Party policy. With respect, what the party looks for, there are rules of
:08:49. > :08:51.engagement between the Shadow Cabinet members that are slightly
:08:52. > :08:58.different to the rules that govern the normal cabinet. I am in the
:08:59. > :09:14.Shadow Cabinet, there are no written rules. Party members are tired of
:09:15. > :09:17.MPs, that is what MPs are bad. It is about the Labour Party turning their
:09:18. > :09:21.guns on the Tories are not this constant attacking of the
:09:22. > :09:24.leadership. He was saying Hilary Benn cannot argue in favour of
:09:25. > :09:30.Trident, even though it is Labour Party policy. Because the members
:09:31. > :09:37.don't like it. This is going round and round. But this is what you have
:09:38. > :09:40.been saying. I said we were reviewing our policy and depending
:09:41. > :09:46.on what the conclusions of the review is, we will expect the front
:09:47. > :09:53.bench team to reflect the Labour Party at that point. It Jeremy
:09:54. > :09:59.Corbyn says replacing Trident is a good idea, they will fall in line
:10:00. > :10:05.with that? Can you imagine Jeremy Corbyn arguing in favour of Trident?
:10:06. > :10:12.Can you imagine anybody querying Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Ed
:10:13. > :10:18.Miliband as to whether they were willing to reflects the views of the
:10:19. > :10:24.Labour Party. Most of the Shadow Cabinet were in favour of Trident,
:10:25. > :10:28.most of your members were not. Doesn't your party have a deep
:10:29. > :10:32.problem? Because if you're leading lights, the people who have risen to
:10:33. > :10:35.the top, if they don't agree with the members and you are saying the
:10:36. > :10:40.members are entitled to their view, how is it going to work? You buy
:10:41. > :10:46.into this obsessive Westminster stuff. I wonder how those people in
:10:47. > :10:49.the Shadow Cabinet, including Tom Watson, whether they are expected to
:10:50. > :10:54.say stuff they don't believe because the members want them to? Everyone
:10:55. > :10:58.in the Shadow Cabinet is a Democrat and a member of the Labour Party.
:10:59. > :11:04.They offer free spirits and intelligent people. When we arrived
:11:05. > :11:10.at our policy, we speak of the policy and that is how the party has
:11:11. > :11:15.always worked. Did you answer the one whether Hilary Benn can speak in
:11:16. > :11:23.favour of Trident tomorrow? We are in the middle of reviewing policy.
:11:24. > :11:27.So you cannot? We are facing a massively incompetent and uncaring
:11:28. > :11:35.of and and you want to take me round and round this Westminster quibble,
:11:36. > :11:40.instead of asking the question, what do party members want? They want us
:11:41. > :11:46.to turn our guns on the Tories. Why this constant hyperventilating about
:11:47. > :11:51.Jeremy? Donald today on Channel 4 News was talking about the hard
:11:52. > :11:57.right in the party. There is an argument going on in your party and
:11:58. > :12:02.neither side, you, nor the other side, seems able to put down the
:12:03. > :12:07.weapons and say, let's have a truce, shut up talking to each other and
:12:08. > :12:12.talk about the Tories. I am not attacking people, as people. I will
:12:13. > :12:22.say this about the people who have resigned and so on. Kevan Jones, I
:12:23. > :12:30.consider him a friend and he is a big loss. When you look at Jonathan
:12:31. > :12:36.Reynolds, if you look at Mr Dugher, look at some of the others, what do
:12:37. > :12:41.they have in common? They are all former specialist advisers. People
:12:42. > :12:45.that came up under a certain system, they did politics at university,
:12:46. > :12:50.became an MP and then a minister. Who are rightfully upset because
:12:51. > :12:56.Jeremy has brought new energy and new people into politics. I was
:12:57. > :12:59.putting to you the fact that neither side of the argument in your party
:13:00. > :13:05.can put down weapons and stop arguing. Then you said we need to
:13:06. > :13:12.turn our guns on the Tories and then immediately turned your fire on the
:13:13. > :13:21.party. It is not a left right... It is. A lot of people want to see
:13:22. > :13:25.authentic people at the top politics who necessarily having just been
:13:26. > :13:31.advisers. You had the accusation from Ian Austin in the piece about
:13:32. > :13:34.senior colleagues of Jeremy Corbyn briefing against other colleagues.
:13:35. > :13:41.Do you believe that has been going on? I don't. If we had evidence of
:13:42. > :13:49.it, would you believe it is disloyal and people who have been doing it
:13:50. > :13:54.should step aside? The idea is absurd. What Ian Austin is
:13:55. > :14:00.suggesting is something excessive and sinister, and wrong. It is
:14:01. > :14:03.simply not true. Just as Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, people get off the
:14:04. > :14:13.record briefings to people like yourself. Ian Austin's influencing
:14:14. > :14:17.saying it is wrong is absurd. Maria Eagle, who believes in Trident, was
:14:18. > :14:26.she removed because of that or some other reason? What do you think? I
:14:27. > :14:30.think you have an idea. Jeremy is a kind and thoughtful person and that
:14:31. > :14:34.is why his reshuffle took so long. He spoke to people at length. He has
:14:35. > :14:39.found a Maria Eagle a fantastic brief and she is happy. Most people
:14:40. > :14:45.believe it is because she believed in Trident and so she is the first
:14:46. > :14:50.person sacked from the card at -- cabinet. You'll have to ask Maria
:14:51. > :14:52.but Jeremy has strong support from the party and the country and they
:14:53. > :15:01.want us to attack the Tories. It has been said that she is happy
:15:02. > :15:07.with the move. That's correct. Is that right or just based on hope
:15:08. > :15:13.or... It is a great brief. What is not to like. What did David Mellor
:15:14. > :15:16.call it ministry for fun. We will ask her. It is a great brief. It is
:15:17. > :15:20.a pleasure. Thank you. Germany is in a state of some shock
:15:21. > :15:23.at events on New Year's Eve in Cologne and some
:15:24. > :15:25.other big cities. It was more than rowdy behaviour -
:15:26. > :15:28.fireworks were dangerously lobbed into crowds, there was
:15:29. > :15:29.intimidation of women, And it seems to have been
:15:30. > :15:35.perpetrated by large gangs of young To a country that has been
:15:36. > :15:38.so welcoming to refugees, it's led to some deep soul-searching
:15:39. > :15:41.and it's divided opinion. Katie Razzall has
:15:42. > :16:19.been looking into it. More than 100 women
:16:20. > :16:25.in Cologne reporting sexual harassment, robbery and even
:16:26. > :16:27.rape on New Year's Eve around Allegedly assaulted by groups of men
:16:28. > :16:33.described as of North African In a country coming to terms
:16:34. > :16:41.with a million new migrants last year alone, the attacks
:16:42. > :16:46.appear organised. Up to 1,000 men in groups
:16:47. > :16:49.surrounding women, to hem them in, New Year's Eve was last
:16:50. > :17:10.Thursday, but the news Originally the Cologne police said
:17:11. > :17:16.it had been a peaceful night, but when the story did emerge
:17:17. > :17:20.the media was slow to report it. One German TV channel today
:17:21. > :17:24.apologised but it has fed conspiracy theories about media
:17:25. > :17:33.bias towards refugees. supporters and the right-wing party
:17:34. > :17:39.which hopes to join the parliament after the nationwide
:17:40. > :17:41.elections next year. I think German media
:17:42. > :17:44.faces a dilemma here. On the one hand, they don't
:17:45. > :17:47.want to be called racist and they don't want to strengthen
:17:48. > :17:51.the Islamophobic movement by quickly reporting rumours or accusations
:17:52. > :17:59.circulating on Facebook. But if they act too
:18:00. > :18:02.slow alternative media outlets are quickly there,
:18:03. > :18:10.calling them lying press. Today, pro and anti-migrant
:18:11. > :18:11.demonstrators scuffled outside the station, as police said
:18:12. > :18:14.they were investigating links to a criminal network
:18:15. > :18:15.of North African Last night, demonstrators targeted
:18:16. > :18:22.the ruling CDU party which has welcomed so many refugees
:18:23. > :18:25.to Germany recently. The government said connecting
:18:26. > :18:27.the attacks to the issue of refugees is a misuse of
:18:28. > :18:32.the debate, but plenty of fearful. In a country already soul-searching
:18:33. > :18:38.about its generosity Newsnight has spoken to police
:18:39. > :19:28.the common who told us more than 50 women have now reported attacks
:19:29. > :19:30.with similar tactics The assailants are described
:19:31. > :19:33.as Arab, North African and southern The police say they
:19:34. > :19:36.expect more women to Marcus Pretzell is an MEP
:19:37. > :19:53.for the right wing party What conclusion do you draw from the
:19:54. > :20:01.events on New Year's Eve? Good evening. Well, I understand that
:20:02. > :20:05.there are people that are concerned it might be stereotypes we are
:20:06. > :20:12.talking about, but we have to see that this has never happened in
:20:13. > :20:18.Germany in the last decades. We have never experienced incidents like
:20:19. > :20:23.these that happened in Cologne, Hamburg, Stuttgart, and many other
:20:24. > :20:28.cities in Germany. So this is not only a stereotype, but it is
:20:29. > :20:37.reality. It has happened and we need to talk about why this happened, why
:20:38. > :20:43.it is that Arab men and Northern Africans don't accept our middle
:20:44. > :20:47.European culture and why they don't respect our women and that's an
:20:48. > :20:53.incident really we need to talk about and we need to talk about how
:20:54. > :21:00.we can integrate one and a half million people that came to Germany
:21:01. > :21:07.in 2015 alone and that might even have their families brought to
:21:08. > :21:14.Germany and will mean five to seven million foreigners come to Germany.
:21:15. > :21:18.When it comes to race and religion and nationality, one of the things
:21:19. > :21:30.we know is when you do generalise across a whole population that Arab
:21:31. > :21:35.men are like this, it doesn't lead anywhere construcktive, are you
:21:36. > :21:41.using this to tar a large number of people, most of whom are not groping
:21:42. > :21:46.womening, to tar them all with that same brush. Sorry I didn't
:21:47. > :21:51.understand the last phrase. Whether you're painting them all, everybody
:21:52. > :21:56.who is Arab or African by that smaller number of people who behave
:21:57. > :22:04.badly. Of course not. Because we have had one and a half million
:22:05. > :22:08.coming to Germany in 2015 and if it were only 1,000 men in Cologne on
:22:09. > :22:15.New Year's Eve and some hundred others in other cities. But still
:22:16. > :22:22.this is a huge number. It doesn't mean every Arab man is raping German
:22:23. > :22:31.women. Of course not. But what we have to see is that these incidents
:22:32. > :22:35.happen more often since we have had these so-called refugees in Germany
:22:36. > :22:40.and those numbers that we experienced in 2015. Sorry we are
:22:41. > :22:44.very much out of time. In a sentence, do you think what happened
:22:45. > :22:50.on Thursday last week has made a difference to public opinion in
:22:51. > :23:00.Germany? Yes of course it has, because the public now realises that
:23:01. > :23:05.women, that had been surrounded by these men, having the police
:23:06. > :23:13.standing around and not being able to help these women, and this is a
:23:14. > :23:20.traumatic thing to happen to women of course. And I believe there are
:23:21. > :23:21.many people in Germany now. Yes? Sorry, we do have to leave it there.
:23:22. > :23:29.We have ran out of time. In this country, in the west,
:23:30. > :23:31.we enjoy getting excited about the most trivial of things -
:23:32. > :23:34.ballroom dancing contests, Many of our human dramas
:23:35. > :23:37.are manufactured to be dramatic But for the next ten minutes,
:23:38. > :23:43.immerse yourself in a story from a less fortunate
:23:44. > :23:46.part of the world - a human tale of more
:23:47. > :23:48.substantial consequence than a talent show,
:23:49. > :23:50.but one which ended up on a television
:23:51. > :23:53.programme nevertheless. It's the story of a Kurd, Maryam,
:23:54. > :23:57.who through no fault of her parents, was separated from her
:23:58. > :27:35.family as a baby. First of all, if she could or not,
:27:36. > :27:48.which to a certain degree I can tell you she Is Kurd and she
:27:49. > :27:50.is one of the missing. Third thing is, which family
:27:51. > :27:57.does she belong to? Now we get some kind
:27:58. > :27:59.of answer for the You can watch the documentary on the
:28:00. > :34:33.news channel this weekend. That was produced, directed
:34:34. > :34:34.and filmed Now, on the subject of human
:34:35. > :34:39.drama on television, we are in the midst of a wave
:34:40. > :34:41.of engrossing real-life murder If you liked the podcast Serial,
:34:42. > :34:45.you might like HBO's The Jinx. Or the one that's being talked
:34:46. > :34:49.about at a watercooler near you now, a series from Netflix called
:34:50. > :34:50.Making a Murderer. It examines the case
:34:51. > :34:52.against Steven Avery, a working class man
:34:53. > :34:54.from rural, Wisconsin. The trouble he refers
:34:55. > :35:13.to was a wrongful conviction The people that were close to Steve
:35:14. > :35:16.knew what he was like coming he always liked to make people laugh.
:35:17. > :35:23.He didn't dress like everybody else, the family didn't fit into the
:35:24. > :35:25.community. Steve did a lot of stupid things, but he always owned up to
:35:26. > :35:27.what he had done. The trouble he refers
:35:28. > :35:29.to was a wrongful conviction He served 18 years for that before
:35:30. > :35:33.DNA evidence exonerated him - an astonishing miscarriage
:35:34. > :35:35.of justice and some shocking revelations are made about how
:35:36. > :35:38.he ended up in jail. I'm not giving anything
:35:39. > :35:40.away by the way - this The next nine hours of the series
:35:41. > :35:44.concern Mr Avery's subsequent Is he guilty, or is it the revenge
:35:45. > :35:49.of a Wisconsin justice system The documentary invites us
:35:50. > :35:55.to form a judgement, Earlier tonight I spoke
:35:56. > :35:59.to the film-makers Moira Demos They spent ten years documenting the
:36:00. > :36:10.story. Well, what we tried to do with this
:36:11. > :36:13.series was we saw this as an opportunity to
:36:14. > :36:15.document the process and we were there as events
:36:16. > :36:18.were unfolding and tried to document every step of the process and that's
:36:19. > :36:22.really how you can come to some sort But it will be up to
:36:23. > :36:28.viewers you know based What the prosecution did and how
:36:29. > :36:35.the court system worked whether we can rely
:36:36. > :36:41.on these verdicts. But I mean I ask the question,
:36:42. > :36:43.Laura, because 15,000 people have signed a petition asking
:36:44. > :36:47.for Steven Avery to be pardoned. Now they effectively have come up
:36:48. > :36:50.with their own judgment, they don't want a retrial,
:36:51. > :36:53.they want a pardon. Are they right to ask for that,
:36:54. > :36:56.or are they jumping the gun a I don't think the documentary places
:36:57. > :37:02.viewers in a position to really be able to fairly judge
:37:03. > :37:06.whether or not Steven Avery committed the crime
:37:07. > :37:10.for which he was charged You know, as Moira said,
:37:11. > :37:22.what we were setting out to do was to document the process that
:37:23. > :37:24.led to that conviction. But the short answer
:37:25. > :37:26.to your question is no, I do not believe
:37:27. > :37:29.that the documentary places viewers in a position
:37:30. > :37:33.to decide questions of guilt or not Are both of you open-minded about
:37:34. > :37:38.the case, or were you open-minded or did you go in with something
:37:39. > :37:49.of an agenda when you started? I think we were open-minded
:37:50. > :37:53.when we started and if anything The film isn't open-minded,
:37:54. > :37:59.the documentary isn't open-of-minded, no one really
:38:00. > :38:03.believes that, do they? You know we pointed the camera
:38:04. > :38:13.at things that were happening These are things that
:38:14. > :38:18.were not shared before It is a brilliant documentary
:38:19. > :38:21.series, but you're in with the family of Steven Avery
:38:22. > :38:24.and you're in with the defence, you're not there
:38:25. > :38:25.with the prosecution. Maybe the prosecution
:38:26. > :38:27.didn't want to help you, but it is clearly much more
:38:28. > :38:30.from that point of view than from an even-handed,
:38:31. > :38:32.other side point of view, Well, we are documentarians,
:38:33. > :38:38.which means we are storytellers and part of the story
:38:39. > :38:42.that we sought to tell was an exploration of the experience
:38:43. > :38:46.of an accused in the American criminal justice system and I think,
:38:47. > :38:49.as the series bears out, that's not just the experience
:38:50. > :38:53.of the person who is accused, but also the people
:38:54. > :38:55.who care about that person, the people who are intimately
:38:56. > :38:58.involved in their lives, so, yes, we you know spent quality
:38:59. > :39:02.time with the Averys and you know we very much include
:39:03. > :39:09.of course their point of view, as well as Steven
:39:10. > :39:11.Avery's point of view, But that said, we cast
:39:12. > :39:19.a very wide net. We reached out to
:39:20. > :39:21.people on all sides. Anybody who could offer
:39:22. > :39:23.a first hand account, who had some stake in the events
:39:24. > :39:26.that were playing out - and that included law enforcement,
:39:27. > :39:29.that included the prosecutor, Not just for the Halbach case,
:39:30. > :39:35.but this was a documentary series that spans 30 years, it is an epic,
:39:36. > :39:39.layered story and it's certainly not a series about did Stephen Avery
:39:40. > :39:46.and Brendan Dassey That would be
:39:47. > :39:54.a mischaracterisation But the prosecutors clearly aren't
:39:55. > :40:00.terribly happy and they have focussed on the fact that they think
:40:01. > :40:02.evidence that they consider important was not included
:40:03. > :40:05.in the selection that was put Well I mean I have heard some
:40:06. > :40:13.of what Ken Kratz is saying in the media, now he is saying some
:40:14. > :40:17.of these pieces of evidence are the most compelling
:40:18. > :40:22.pieces of evidence. That is never what he said
:40:23. > :40:25.during the two years You know, we took
:40:26. > :40:29.our clues of what to include of the State's
:40:30. > :40:31.case from the State, from the prosecutor,
:40:32. > :40:33.from his press conferences, from his opening statement
:40:34. > :40:36.and his closing argument. So we tried to put in you know
:40:37. > :40:44.in the three and a half hours we had for Stephen's trial the elements
:40:45. > :40:46.from the six-week trial that were the most important,
:40:47. > :40:48.the most damning What is so interesting
:40:49. > :40:53.about it and the documentary and the case is that
:40:54. > :40:57.you're accused to some extent of what you're accusing
:40:58. > :41:00.the justice system of - which is perhaps going in selecting
:41:01. > :41:03.the evidence that suits I just wonder whether
:41:04. > :41:10.you see the irony of that, that you're in a way
:41:11. > :41:13.being accused of fitting a story, which is what you're
:41:14. > :41:16.accusing the justice I don't really know how
:41:17. > :41:21.anyone is in a position We spent 10 years, collectively 20
:41:22. > :41:24.years, making this documentary, I guarantee you that
:41:25. > :41:30.you know we read all of the primary source materials we could get our
:41:31. > :41:36.hands on for a multitude of matters Just because the prosecutor now
:41:37. > :41:43.comes forward, after having declined various interview requests by us,
:41:44. > :41:46.and attacks us and understands the power of accusation
:41:47. > :41:50.doesn't mean that there there's any voracity
:41:51. > :41:54.to what he is saying or anyone should give any weight
:41:55. > :41:58.to what he's saying. We believe you know we achieved
:41:59. > :42:08.the goals we set out to achieve. So and we think that this
:42:09. > :42:10.is a social justice documentary, We always hoped it would promote
:42:11. > :42:17.a dialogue about our criminal justice system and if people
:42:18. > :42:20.want to take a slanted or myopic view of what this series really
:42:21. > :42:23.offers, that is their prerogative, but it doesn't mean
:42:24. > :42:26.that we need to engage Moira Demos and Laura Ricciardi,
:42:27. > :42:34.thank you both very much. We leave you with an odd centenary -
:42:35. > :42:38.the railway bridge in Durham, North Carolina, which is exactly 14
:42:39. > :42:42.feet and eight inches high, which is two feet lower
:42:43. > :42:48.than the standard US truck. It generally comes off best
:42:49. > :42:52.when it meets one of them, and this week it claimed
:42:53. > :42:54.its one hundredth victim. This being the 21st century,
:42:55. > :42:58.nearly all of it's victims have been recorded by one Mr Jurgen Henn
:42:59. > :43:03.for his website11foot8.com. So far the infamous bridge has
:43:04. > :43:06.claimed half a million dollars in damage and become a bit of a case
:43:07. > :43:59.study in the limitations The weather is on the change, but
:44:00. > :44:00.for the time being we have more rain to