:00:00. > :00:07.First week of the year, and it's not looking good
:00:08. > :00:14.This year opens with a dangerous cocktail of new threats
:00:15. > :00:24.For Britain, the only antidote to that is confronting complacency.
:00:25. > :00:27.We'll ask if the next leg of the protracted sequence of global
:00:28. > :00:38.Shocking footage from Syria draws attention to the latest horror
:00:39. > :00:40.to afflict certain towns in the country -
:00:41. > :00:50.After January, I'm available for
:00:51. > :00:55.I wouldn't say that, or you'll be doing it.
:00:56. > :00:58.Newly-published transcripts reveal a new contender for the greatest
:00:59. > :01:07.Veteran script writer, Andrew Davies, talks us
:01:08. > :01:12.Sex is terribly interesting to everybody.
:01:13. > :01:32.Stock markets falling - especially in Shanghai.
:01:33. > :01:39.Oil prices falling to shockingly low levels.
:01:40. > :01:41.of a devaluation war in Asia which has all sorts
:01:42. > :01:47.No wonder that Chancellor George Osborne thought it might be prudent
:01:48. > :01:54.Anyone who thinks it is mission accomplished with the British
:01:55. > :02:09.Or it will be the year we look back at
:02:10. > :02:19.Yes, listen, and you'll hear the distinct sound
:02:20. > :02:30.Remember, after the crash, its economy, and those
:02:31. > :02:32.of other emerging nations, were the great hope.
:02:33. > :02:38.And there are worries about the debt that accumulated in the years
:02:39. > :02:43.In some ways, you can see the latest concerns as part of a pattern that
:02:44. > :02:56.Go back to Japan in the 1980s, it was the world's beacon of growth
:02:57. > :03:06.It was underpinned by credit growth and a property and stock market
:03:07. > :03:17.They don't think the market is transparent enough. They don't
:03:18. > :03:19.understand what is going on. The Japanese stock market
:03:20. > :03:23.peaked at 39,000 in 1989. Today, two and half decades later,
:03:24. > :03:30.it's at less than half that level. But while Japan had a hangover,
:03:31. > :03:32.the world carried on turning, But they soon imploded
:03:33. > :03:56.into a regional crisis Some of us are old enough to have
:03:57. > :04:01.reported on it. The problems with Asia and the banks go far wider and
:04:02. > :04:06.deeper than Japan. Just as El Nino is creating chaos in the weather
:04:07. > :04:12.system, a global storm is staring in the world economy, coming from the
:04:13. > :04:16.Pacific region. The number of countries that got into trouble in
:04:17. > :04:22.Asia, borrowed money from the rest of the world. There were some common
:04:23. > :04:23.themes and the most important was that they had all been on a private
:04:24. > :04:26.growing binge. Over to the west, another bubble -
:04:27. > :04:32.the dot com boom. A surge in optimism, growth
:04:33. > :04:35.and subsequent disappointment. The west weathered the dot com crash
:04:36. > :04:38.comfortably thanks to low interest rates and growing debt
:04:39. > :04:45.that fuelled growth. Which kind of almost
:04:46. > :04:53.brings us up to date. China was the post-crash
:04:54. > :05:01.poster child. They were going to be
:05:02. > :05:04.a market for the west, languishing in stagnation
:05:05. > :05:07.and having to sort out debts. And yes, China did keep
:05:08. > :05:09.going but now even it is running The fear is always that
:05:10. > :05:13.you have not just a boom-bust cycle which is as old as the hills -
:05:14. > :05:16.it's the boom underpinned by borrowing, with debts making
:05:17. > :05:22.the subsequent bust all the more And the issue is, is there a bit
:05:23. > :05:33.of that in China now? Look back at the last decade, debt
:05:34. > :05:40.in China has been growing, fuelling growth. It is not clear the debt
:05:41. > :05:48.will be paid back. You can't go on fuelling the economy by letting debt
:05:49. > :05:51.rise like that for ever. China is resonating the kind of financial
:05:52. > :05:56.crisis we have seen in the past in other parts of the world, which is
:05:57. > :05:59.that it is starting to look quite shaky on the basis of an unstoppable
:06:00. > :06:04.build-up in credit creation and debt. The government should step in
:06:05. > :06:06.to break it and stop it. The story is that while China's
:06:07. > :06:09.factories keep producing - overproducing perhaps,
:06:10. > :06:11.the world has been struggling to buy all the stuff that it's
:06:12. > :06:13.capable of churning out. We know how to spend,
:06:14. > :06:24.but not how to then pay There is a cocktail of pernicious
:06:25. > :06:33.things going on in the global economy, which has to do with the
:06:34. > :06:36.legacy of past access. So, in the Western world, we are still dealing
:06:37. > :06:41.with the consequences of our own financial crisis which was caused
:06:42. > :06:46.why excessive credit. In the emerging countries today in general,
:06:47. > :06:48.particularly in China, they are having to deal with the consequences
:06:49. > :06:51.of excessive credit creation. So many economic crises -
:06:52. > :06:53.is another one due? In a moment we'll be discussing how
:06:54. > :07:00.worried we should be with two big beasts of the economic jungle,
:07:01. > :07:02.but first, let's focus for a moment on the situation
:07:03. > :07:05.in China with the BBC's Asia Business Correspondent
:07:06. > :07:12.Karishma Vaswani. The stock market is what they are
:07:13. > :07:18.feeling at the moment and it has been pretty remarkable, having to
:07:19. > :07:25.shut down as soon as they opened? It has been a remarkable start to the
:07:26. > :07:29.New Year. On Monday when trading first started, the circuit breaker
:07:30. > :07:32.mechanism the Chinese authorities put into place, that kicked in
:07:33. > :07:38.shutting trading down for the day on Monday. Things looked better on
:07:39. > :07:43.Tuesday, but on Thursday, we saw this happen again. 29 minutes of
:07:44. > :07:50.trade, the shortest trading day in China's history of the stock market.
:07:51. > :07:55.Pessimism and anxiety investors. Give us a little bit on the exchange
:07:56. > :08:02.rate. It is complicated in China, two exchange rates. There is a fear
:08:03. > :08:05.of an exchange rate war going on in that region? Basically what has
:08:06. > :08:14.happened is the feeling is the central Bank of China allowed the
:08:15. > :08:19.currency to depreciate to rate we haven't seen since 2011. Other
:08:20. > :08:23.countries in the region become less competitive. Many of these countries
:08:24. > :08:27.in Asia have benefited from the economic boom we have seen in China
:08:28. > :08:33.over the last decade. Think of Australia, Indonesia, Malaysia,
:08:34. > :08:38.selling the commodities to the hungry giant China is. As a result
:08:39. > :08:42.of this effect give devaluation there are concerns we could see a
:08:43. > :08:45.currency war across the region forcing other countries to try and
:08:46. > :08:50.lower their currencies at a time when the US is raising interest
:08:51. > :08:55.rates 's. Looking at it briefly, to what extent have the authorities in
:08:56. > :09:05.China run out of tools to get growth. You cannot just keep using
:09:06. > :09:09.monetary creation? They made the decision today to suspend the
:09:10. > :09:13.circuit breaker mechanism on the stock market. It shows they are
:09:14. > :09:19.running out of ideas. There is a lot of speculation in China that they
:09:20. > :09:23.don't know what to do next. In the weeks to come, we will start to see
:09:24. > :09:26.more moves from the regulators there. Thank you very much.
:09:27. > :09:29.I'm joined now by Adair Turner, a former chair of the Financial
:09:30. > :09:31.Services Authority, who has written a book about our pact with debt.
:09:32. > :09:34.And Rupert Harrison, who until 2015, was the chief of staff
:09:35. > :09:54.This thesis there is a link between this crises and China, do you buy
:09:55. > :09:59.it? Yes, I assert in my book it is there. You look at the fundamental
:10:00. > :10:03.cause of the financial crisis in 2008, it is driven by the fact that
:10:04. > :10:12.private debt in the advanced economies had gone from 50% of GDP
:10:13. > :10:18.in 1950 to 170% of GDP in 2007 and grew pretty much every year for
:10:19. > :10:22.those 57 years. What has happened since 2008 is the debt hasn't gone
:10:23. > :10:26.away, it is just shifted around. In the advanced economies we have
:10:27. > :10:30.achieved a very small amount of reduction of debt to GDP in the
:10:31. > :10:36.private sector, offset by a big increase in public debt. Then we
:10:37. > :10:40.have had a big shift of debt to the emerging markets and in particular
:10:41. > :10:46.to China. Essentially that growth of the Chinese debt was deliberately
:10:47. > :10:52.planned by the Chinese authorities in 2009 as the mechanism to offset
:10:53. > :10:57.the dangerous impact for the economy of the crisis in the West. But it
:10:58. > :11:02.has got to a stage now, where it is out of control and that
:11:03. > :11:10.extraordinary investment boom, in particular a construction boom has
:11:11. > :11:14.come to an end and we are facing the deflationary consequences of that.
:11:15. > :11:20.This pattern isn't over yet and the total level of debt has just gone up
:11:21. > :11:24.and up. Rupert, do you buy the Chinese problem, because most of us
:11:25. > :11:29.are focusing on the stock market and interest rate, do you think deep
:11:30. > :11:37.down there is a problem like there is in other places? Absolutely, in a
:11:38. > :11:41.sense it was caused or at least exacerbated by the Chinese response
:11:42. > :11:44.to our financial crisis. But I think China would have had to go through
:11:45. > :11:51.something like this anyway. It is making a transition like many other
:11:52. > :11:55.countries to growth not based on consumption. They exacerbated the
:11:56. > :12:00.scale of the problem they had to face. They would have had to face it
:12:01. > :12:05.anyway. The question is in all market economies, do we have debt
:12:06. > :12:22.crises and financial crises, the answer is yes. As the world the only
:12:23. > :12:24.way to make growth? Going back to Japan, you have had a beacon of
:12:25. > :12:30.global growth getting into crisis and then another one runs with it
:12:31. > :12:34.and builds up credit. Who will pick up the growth if China stops growing
:12:35. > :12:40.and becoming the kind of spender of last resorts to the world? In a
:12:41. > :12:46.sense, China's slowdown is nothing new. It probably started two years
:12:47. > :12:51.ago. The story of 2015 is a economies like the UK, the US and
:12:52. > :12:55.increasingly be eurozone, eked out decent growth, unemployment coming
:12:56. > :12:59.down at a time when China was slowing dramatically. I don't think
:13:00. > :13:05.we should be too pessimistic of our ability to grow without China. I
:13:06. > :13:11.think the UK economy is doing OK, but only OK. The latest figures show
:13:12. > :13:15.we grew by 2.1% last year. You have to allow for the fact we have a
:13:16. > :13:22.population growing up .6% per annum. If you turn into the growth of
:13:23. > :13:27.income per capita, it is only 1.5%. That has just got back to income
:13:28. > :13:33.standards very slightly above the 2007 peak. This is getting on for an
:13:34. > :13:38.entire decade, in which capitalism has failed to do what we thought it
:13:39. > :13:43.would do before, which is to deliver at least over a decade period of
:13:44. > :13:47.time, growth in income standards. Even in the US, which has been the
:13:48. > :13:52.most successful recovery from 2008, this has been a mediocre recovery
:13:53. > :13:57.compared with what the US economy used to do. At the core of that is
:13:58. > :14:04.what is called the debt overhang. Is there anything new about that?
:14:05. > :14:09.People have put together data that goes back a long way. The financial
:14:10. > :14:13.crises have been part of capitalist economies for centuries. We know
:14:14. > :14:21.recoveries from deep financial crises like the one we had, take a
:14:22. > :14:25.long time. Over centuries, the human progress and wealth creation has
:14:26. > :14:30.been unprecedented. It means the machine is running out of steam?
:14:31. > :14:41.This has occurred at a higher level of debt than any since 1929. Very
:14:42. > :14:48.briefly, do you have an idea for how you can have growth without
:14:49. > :14:52.encouraging consumers to spend more? I have a radical proposal, there are
:14:53. > :14:56.some circumstances in which your deflationary problems are so deep
:14:57. > :15:05.you should run increased public deficit and funds them with central
:15:06. > :15:09.bank money. You print the money and explain it you want to print money
:15:10. > :15:12.rather than borrow it and get the growth without the borrowing? Yes
:15:13. > :15:17.that's right. Whether you think that is a good idea or not, I will give
:15:18. > :15:25.you a prediction one country of the world will do that, that country is
:15:26. > :15:30.Japan, because it has a level of debt which it can not possibly pay
:15:31. > :15:38.back. You said you didn't believe that bit. That that is the only way.
:15:39. > :15:42.The UK and United States economies demonstrate what needs to be done.
:15:43. > :15:48.The recovery has been slow, but it has been par for the course. The
:15:49. > :15:57.only way way to grow is what has been happening, inVoe vat and in--
:15:58. > :16:03.innovate and invest. Should we be worried in conditions in the world
:16:04. > :16:11.are poor to get growth we are going to resort to consumer spending,
:16:12. > :16:15.shopping, borrowing. There is a myth that the recovery has been debt
:16:16. > :16:22.fuelled. We can do it. And you know of course there are risks, China is
:16:23. > :16:29.a risk, or other risks. The other lesson is you can have long
:16:30. > :16:33.upswings. The big question is as we remove the fiscal stimulus and one
:16:34. > :16:40.reason that has kept the UK economy going over the last five years is a
:16:41. > :16:43.very big fiscal stimulus, even within the austerity which George
:16:44. > :16:48.Osborne and Rupert were responsible for, that was a reduction in the
:16:49. > :16:56.level of deficit, but it was still a big deaf #1i9. Ficit. Then we will
:16:57. > :16:59.only be only grow by returning to private credit growth and that what
:17:00. > :17:03.is the Office of Budget Responsibility forecast for the next
:17:04. > :17:05.five years will be the case. Degrees of pessimism and optimism. Thank you
:17:06. > :17:08.both very much. We've become used to seeing some
:17:09. > :17:11.dreadful images coming out of Syria, but today distressing footage has
:17:12. > :17:13.emerged that still has The situation in Madaya,
:17:14. > :17:16.a town of 40,000 people that is just 15 miles
:17:17. > :17:19.north-west of Damascus, is known to be dire -
:17:20. > :17:22.it has been besieged for months, and people left there
:17:23. > :17:25.have nothing to eat. Residents say they've received no
:17:26. > :17:28.food aid since October and some have Well, images released by opposition
:17:29. > :17:33.activists give some indication as to the suffering
:17:34. > :17:38.that is resulting. This footage released by
:17:39. > :17:42.the Syrian American Medical Society shows a young boy called
:17:43. > :17:45.Mohamed Eysa, who tells us he hasn't I'm afraid we don't know any
:17:46. > :18:01.more about this child, Finally, here you see
:18:02. > :18:05.a banner in English - the adults desperate at least
:18:06. > :18:09.to save the lives of the young ones and draw attention
:18:10. > :18:10.to their situation. Activists say up to 40
:18:11. > :18:13.civilians have now died, either from starvation and lack
:18:14. > :18:15.of medicines or from trying The better news today,
:18:16. > :18:19.is that the United Nations says the Syrian government has agreed
:18:20. > :18:21.to allow humanitarian aid We need to be clear though,
:18:22. > :18:25.that while we have these pictures from Madaya,
:18:26. > :18:27.this is not the only town Dr Ammar Ghanem is
:18:28. > :18:32.originally from Madaya. He now works for a charity called
:18:33. > :18:35.the Syrian American Medical Society and is in regular touch
:18:36. > :18:49.with relatives from the town. Thank you for joining us. You're in
:18:50. > :18:55.contact with the town. Your town. What can you tell us about what is
:18:56. > :19:01.happening there? Well the situation is really above description. The
:19:02. > :19:09.siege started in and has continued for 200 days. In the last two months
:19:10. > :19:16.it's Ca lated. Now nothing is allowed come in or go out. The
:19:17. > :19:23.regime has tried to put the check points in every entrance to that
:19:24. > :19:29.area and the rest of border is planted with land mines. Who anybody
:19:30. > :19:33.who will think about escaping will face his death and anybody who wants
:19:34. > :19:38.to choose to stay will die from starvation. We are seeing pictures
:19:39. > :19:41.today, but let's be clear we are only talking about it because we are
:19:42. > :19:47.seeing the pictures, but this situation is not one that has just
:19:48. > :19:58.occurred, and it is not the only place, Madaya? Yes there is multiple
:19:59. > :20:05.areas like Madaya, but the only situation is more difficult than
:20:06. > :20:10.other places. Gota is a larger place and they can plant and eat. Madaya
:20:11. > :20:16.is a small area and people are forced to be in that prison without
:20:17. > :20:20.any resources. So what about if you take a large number of the
:20:21. > :20:27.population and put nit jail and say you're not going to have any food or
:20:28. > :20:32.water and you let them die. That is what is happening in Madaya. We have
:20:33. > :20:37.heard food will go in, but they're talking about that taking a few
:20:38. > :20:44.days. Doctors as I understand it say every day now means fatalities.
:20:45. > :20:50.Definitely. We started fatalities, we have a report from December, with
:20:51. > :20:56.a documented 30 cases of death from hunger and starvation by names and
:20:57. > :21:00.ages and each day we have more documented cases that die from
:21:01. > :21:06.hunger. If we delay, we will talk about more people dying. Who will be
:21:07. > :21:11.responsible for this. It is remarkable that in 2016 that
:21:12. > :21:19.starvation is being used as a weapon of war. It is not just if Syrian
:21:20. > :21:25.Government using that weapon, the UN says others been using starvation
:21:26. > :21:29.and south-east and siege as weapons. Yes and it has nothing to do with
:21:30. > :21:34.the conflict. No matter what the conflict is about. Why don't we
:21:35. > :21:39.leave the civilians alone? They're humans and they want to live and to
:21:40. > :21:43.take care of their children. So we need to leave them alone. The
:21:44. > :21:48.situation here is another holocaust, like what happened to the Jews
:21:49. > :21:52.before it can happen to Madaya people. This is happening in the
:21:53. > :21:56.21st Century in front of our eyes. We ch see this through the social
:21:57. > :22:02.media and the internet and we allow it to happen. Thank you and we know
:22:03. > :22:07.that situation is getting more attention now. Thank you.
:22:08. > :22:10.Well, that potentially makes more poignant the issue of Europe's
:22:11. > :22:12.response to the humanitarian crisis in Syria, and the migrant crisis
:22:13. > :22:19.At the time, Hungary was much criticised for its allegedly
:22:20. > :22:23.not-very communitarian response to the crisis,
:22:24. > :22:26.implacably opposed to the open border stance of the Germans,
:22:27. > :22:31.keener than anyone on deploying copious quantities of fencing.
:22:32. > :22:34.But in Germany right now, there are tensions
:22:35. > :22:38.following the disorder in Cologne and other cities on New Years Eve
:22:39. > :22:45.and other countries in the EU are now themselves rediscovering
:22:46. > :22:49.their national borders, Sweden, Denmark for example.
:22:50. > :22:53.Is the criticism of Hungary being revisited?
:22:54. > :23:04.Mark Urban has been weighing up the arguments.
:23:05. > :23:07.Europe's migration crisis keeps prompting nations
:23:08. > :23:11.to do their own thing, while paying lip service
:23:12. > :23:15.to the decisions reached collectively.
:23:16. > :23:18.For Germany, that is a danger to the Schengen system of borderless
:23:19. > :23:25.travel and European unity more widely.
:23:26. > :23:30.TRANSLATION: I don't issue any concrete warnings here or say
:23:31. > :23:33.what happens if, but I do say a Schengen
:23:34. > :23:35.system can only work if there is joint responsibility
:23:36. > :23:37.for taking in refugees and joint responsibility
:23:38. > :23:49.Recriminations continue about the violent disorder
:23:50. > :23:51.in Cologne, Stuttgart and Hamburg on New Year's Eve.
:23:52. > :23:53.Was it mass sexual assault, were most of
:23:54. > :23:56.the perpetrators asylum seekers or not?
:23:57. > :23:59.As questions multiply, so too the political cost
:24:00. > :24:06.for a Chancellor who accepted more than one million migrants.
:24:07. > :24:10.There are divisions within the Christian Democrat Party.
:24:11. > :24:13.I am not quite sure the Socialists are quite as united as they appear.
:24:14. > :24:20.The one group which clearly is united are the German left,
:24:21. > :24:22.but I think there are divisions in Germany, we have elections soon,
:24:23. > :24:26.we will see how they work out.
:24:27. > :24:28.At the moment I would still put money on
:24:29. > :24:37.Merkel, but maybe less money than I would have done
:24:38. > :24:39.Earlier this month Sweden put controls
:24:40. > :24:44.The Danes have in turn now said they will be putting them
:24:45. > :24:48.France meanwhile retains its border checks put in place after the Paris
:24:49. > :24:50.attacks and other two Schengen signatories,
:24:51. > :24:52.Austria and Slovenia, have now erected a border fence
:24:53. > :25:00.As well as those internal checks, countries on
:25:01. > :25:04.Europe's periphery have been putting fences too,
:25:05. > :25:06.trying to keep migrants out and increasingly that approach
:25:07. > :25:11.called Fortress Europe by some is seen as key.
:25:12. > :25:26.Yes, I think that the Germans care about that.
:25:27. > :25:28.Our citizens enjoy the abscence of internal border control
:25:29. > :25:32.between Schengen states in Europe, but they
:25:33. > :25:41.and only if external border control works and then internal border
:25:42. > :25:50.Today, other European leaders are more
:25:51. > :25:55.David Cameron voicing support for a comprehensive policy
:25:56. > :26:02.to limit the flow of Syrians into Europe.
:26:03. > :26:05.I quite agree with Victor that Europe needs strong external
:26:06. > :26:07.borders and those that help provide those strong external borders
:26:08. > :26:14.I believe are doing very much the right thing.
:26:15. > :26:17.Much now depends on EU plans for a new border force and a deal
:26:18. > :26:21.with Turkey to cut the flow of people to the Greek islands.
:26:22. > :26:24.But neither promises to be a perfect solution.
:26:25. > :26:27.Thousands of refugees are still making the journey weekly
:26:28. > :26:29.and Europe's nations are still struggling to agree how
:26:30. > :26:39.I'm joined from Spain by Peter Sutherland,
:26:40. > :26:41.the United Nations Special Representative
:26:42. > :26:49.of the Secretary-General for International Migration.
:26:50. > :26:58.Can you give us a comment on what happened in Cologne and other German
:26:59. > :27:04.cities, that seems to have thrown a new perspective on the the issue for
:27:05. > :27:08.some people in Germany. The simple answer is I can't comment on it. The
:27:09. > :27:13.German police have not commented fully on it. It is being
:27:14. > :27:16.investigated. The numbers involved in the appalling hooliganism that
:27:17. > :27:23.took place, where they came from and so on is an issue which can only be
:27:24. > :27:27.resolved through proper judicial and police mechanisms of decision-making
:27:28. > :27:32.and to make a comment on it and to apply a responsibility to any one
:27:33. > :27:36.particular group will I think be quite wrong for somebody who doesn't
:27:37. > :27:45.know the answer to it. I find hour and I must say this if I may at this
:27:46. > :27:48.stage, I find this debate about borders, border controls, Razor wire
:27:49. > :27:54.borders in the context of what you have shown in terms of what is
:27:55. > :28:00.happening in Madaya and the fact that we are getting a hundred
:28:01. > :28:05.thousand Syrian refugees, let's stop talking about migrants, the vast
:28:06. > :28:10.bulk of these people are escaping persecution, our only concern should
:28:11. > :28:15.be the humanitarian concern of doing about it, rather than having wires,
:28:16. > :28:21.fences and borders to stop people moving across borders. Of course you
:28:22. > :28:25.have to have at the borders of the European Union a proper assessment
:28:26. > :28:30.of whether people are genuine refugees, but if they are, we are
:28:31. > :28:36.all morally and legally obliged to let them in. And there can be no
:28:37. > :28:40.comparison between the generosity of Germany, which has been obvious, and
:28:41. > :28:50.the very opposite position which has been taken by Hungary in terms of
:28:51. > :28:57.razor wire fences. Is there a dilemma, you can have a country like
:28:58. > :29:03.Germany that lets in a million refugees and you have a incident
:29:04. > :29:09.like Cologne and the beneficiaries to that are parties that benefit are
:29:10. > :29:14.parties to the right that will stir up racial and ethnic tension and
:29:15. > :29:19.they may be telling you there is a capacity for a country to absorb
:29:20. > :29:28.refugees without tension, but if you bring a in too many you will create
:29:29. > :29:34.dischord where there was Harman -- harmony. That is the challenge to
:29:35. > :29:40.advance the more balanced view that can be advanced about the problems
:29:41. > :29:45.that we are trying to resolve, the suffering of refugees, does this
:29:46. > :29:52.generation of Europeans wish to be marked as earlier generations were,
:29:53. > :29:55.with their refusal to take in genuine refugees. I'm not talking
:29:56. > :30:00.about people who are not genuine refugees. But they have to take on
:30:01. > :30:05.the debate. With the far right parties. Which are emerging all over
:30:06. > :30:10.Europe and are growing and will no doubt be stimulated by events such
:30:11. > :30:19.as those that took place in Cologne if they can be blamed on migrants.
:30:20. > :30:23.But they have to be taken on. And not simply kowtowing to the argument
:30:24. > :30:24.that we should put up borders all over Europe when our great source of
:30:25. > :30:36.pride was that we had removed them. Does this not strengthen the David
:30:37. > :30:42.Cameron argument that it is not about helping 200 thousand migrants
:30:43. > :30:47.who got on boats and came to Europe, but it is about helping the millions
:30:48. > :30:53.who are there in the region, in Lebanon or in parts of Syria. Is
:30:54. > :30:58.that not the approach that doesn't allow the far right to benefit from
:30:59. > :31:03.this and also helps more people? Of course we should be helping those
:31:04. > :31:11.particularly in Turkey and in Lebanon who are taking, in the case
:31:12. > :31:17.of Turkey, 2 million refugees and over 1 million in the Lebanon on.
:31:18. > :31:22.But let me ask this question, 100,000 arrived in Greece in the
:31:23. > :31:31.last short period. What is to happen then, are they to lie on beaches?
:31:32. > :31:35.Are they to war, as 77% of them have done, up through the Balkans to be
:31:36. > :31:41.blocked by razor wire fences. Are they to be lodged in camps and
:31:42. > :31:48.locked into them? Or, are we to welcome them? Those are the only
:31:49. > :31:53.alternatives, apart from sending them back to what you have just
:31:54. > :31:58.shown on your television. That is not answerable other than by the
:31:59. > :32:02.answer that we have defined away. Germany has given far more, as had
:32:03. > :32:09.Sweden and many others in Europe in terms of giving places to refugees.
:32:10. > :32:13.It is causing political difficulty in Germany to continue this when
:32:14. > :32:16.others aren't doing this. Peter Sutherland, thanks.
:32:17. > :32:20.He knows how to tell a story and he knows to make sure there's
:32:21. > :32:22.sex appeal up there on the screen when he does.
:32:23. > :32:24.Andrew Davies is Britain's best paid screenwriter.
:32:25. > :32:27.He's the man who made Colin Firth's career by putting him
:32:28. > :32:29.in a clinging wet chemise in 'Pride and Prejudice'.
:32:30. > :32:31.And he's receiving acclaim this week, for his adaptation of 'War
:32:32. > :32:34.and Peace', the BBC's big drama offering of the winter,
:32:35. > :32:39.although some have suggested he's sexed up Tolstoy's masterpiece,
:32:40. > :32:42.less subtly physical than the original.
:32:43. > :32:44.Andrew Davies has been answering his critics,
:32:45. > :32:46.and giving a master class on filleting the classics,
:32:47. > :32:50.to our own very poorly adapted Stephen Smith.
:32:51. > :32:54.Ask Andrew Davies to cut down a classic and he doesn't mess about.
:32:55. > :32:59.Eventually I just took a pair of kitchen scissors and opened up
:33:00. > :33:05.the spine and cut it through the middle.
:33:06. > :33:08.I could carry it round in a jacket pocket then, that kind of thing.
:33:09. > :33:12.Did you utter a silent apology to Tolstoy as one
:33:13. > :33:18.I did feel a bit guilty about it, so I felt a kind
:33:19. > :33:31.Poor old Tolstoy really had a hammering
:33:32. > :33:35.We crossed the steps of Warwickshire to his
:33:36. > :33:43.# If they asked me, I could write a book #.
:33:44. > :33:46.So, this is my journey to work in the morning.
:33:47. > :33:51.From the bedroom, into the cupboard in the corner.
:33:52. > :33:54.Through the corresponding one in the next-door house and this
:33:55. > :34:14.I think it's a very good thing to do, to chop out the boring bits.
:34:15. > :34:19.Henry James called War and Peace a great baggy monster.
:34:20. > :34:23.By which he meant it had lots of things
:34:24. > :34:26.in it that Henry James, and in fact most modern critics,
:34:27. > :34:29.would say shouldn't be in novels at all.
:34:30. > :34:31.Great long essays about history and philosophy
:34:32. > :34:43.So long as some of his ideas emerge through
:34:44. > :35:02.Oh, this incestuous romp between brother and sister
:35:03. > :35:04.Anatole and Helene, didn't happen in the book.
:35:05. > :35:07.Say critics like Simon Scharma, who bashfully admits he only
:35:08. > :35:11.made his way to the end of the novel eight times.
:35:12. > :35:16.He probably read it eight times and never noticed it.
:35:17. > :35:19.After my first reading, I hadn't noticed it either.
:35:20. > :35:26.Actually, he did put one little scene in it where Anatole is kissing
:35:27. > :35:37.Pierre comes upon them and is a bit alarmed.
:35:38. > :35:40.You know, you think, well, that's not your average
:35:41. > :35:51.I would write 70,000 men engaged in a
:35:52. > :35:58.Bodies flying through the air and I'd just
:35:59. > :36:05.cheerfully stop work and go and have lunch.
:36:06. > :36:08.It's not my job to make it look like all this is happening
:36:09. > :36:18.I'd like to think Colin Firth still sends you a cheque every
:36:19. > :36:21.year for making him a star, Does that happen?
:36:22. > :36:34.Sex is terribly interesting to everybody.
:36:35. > :36:41.And it does help to sell shows.
:36:42. > :36:50.So even if the coverage of it in the papers is exaggerated,
:36:51. > :36:57.it usually does help the audience figures.
:36:58. > :37:02.Is it possible to adapt a book and be faithful to it?
:37:03. > :37:05.An adaptation is always different according to when it's
:37:06. > :37:11.Even the reading of a book, when anybody
:37:12. > :37:14.reads a book, it's different from another person's reading.
:37:15. > :37:19.I used to teach English and I would give
:37:20. > :37:22.lectures saying my God, this is a wonderful book and trying
:37:23. > :37:30.This adapting job is a bit like that, only with millions
:37:31. > :37:42.If you enjoyed Brokeback Mountain, you'll probably enjoy reading
:37:43. > :37:45.the transcripts of conversations between Bill Clinton and Tony Blair,
:37:46. > :37:50.They date to the late '90s, and came out of a BBC freedom
:37:51. > :37:52.of information request to the Clinton Presidential Library.
:37:53. > :38:00.The transcripts show the then British PM and the US President
:38:01. > :38:13.Two youthful looking lawyers turned leaders,
:38:14. > :38:22.back in 2000 one of them was about to become a father.
:38:23. > :38:28.After January, I'm available for babysitting.
:38:29. > :38:30.Oh, I wouldn't say that or you will be
:38:31. > :38:34.You said you wanted to continue my work with the third way
:38:35. > :38:37.Helping Blair balance work and family.
:38:38. > :38:41.I tell you, Cherie's in great form but keeps
:38:42. > :38:48.put you down on the babysitting list now, mate.
:38:49. > :38:54.Now that would be a special relationship.
:38:55. > :38:56.But in the transcripts of conversations running
:38:57. > :38:59.to more than 500 page, sometimes a little more explanation
:39:00. > :39:17.My staff won't let me talk to you un-Lescer's
:39:18. > :39:21.Now, Bill, I thought we should have a word about Kosovo.
:39:22. > :39:23.Intervention in Kosovo and the Northern Ireland peace
:39:24. > :39:25.process were the backdrop to this bromance
:39:26. > :39:31.between a second term Clinton and a first term Blair.
:39:32. > :39:38.Thank you for giving Great Britain to Tony Blair and Tony Blair to the
:39:39. > :39:42.world. As they chat we get a sense
:39:43. > :39:45.of how these men view There is a limit to how many
:39:46. > :39:51.times you can do it. Yeah, we end up being being part
:39:52. > :39:55.negotiator and part therapist Some day we should write a book
:39:56. > :39:58.together about these Northern Ireland figures large,
:39:59. > :40:02.but the conversations don't I'm watching the end
:40:03. > :40:13.of an old Peter Sellars movie. I can't tell, I've only
:40:14. > :40:16.seen about five minutes, but Herbert just disappeared
:40:17. > :40:18.along with a castle. with Northern Ireland.
:40:19. > :40:36.humour since you're dealing I just wanted to bring you up today.
:40:37. > :40:52.Tony Blair's answers from here were redacted. I know what you mean. It
:40:53. > :40:58.is all redacted. Tony, when this comes out, who do you think they
:40:59. > :41:08.will get to do the voices? I don't know, some impression it. Not that
:41:09. > :41:21.Rory Bremner? That is more likely than Jeremy Corbyn leading the
:41:22. > :41:26.That's all we have time for. Good night.