:00:00. > :00:07.The fear gripping women in the Americas
:00:08. > :00:11.about the Zika virus and birth defects.
:00:12. > :00:13.The possible links, only recently suspected,
:00:14. > :00:16.have rapidly changed the risk profile of Zika
:00:17. > :00:22.from a mild threat to one of alarming proportions.
:00:23. > :00:24.We have an exclusive interview with the woman
:00:25. > :00:30.taking on the Brazillian government to overturn the anti-abortion law.
:00:31. > :00:33.Should the UK put a stop to Saudi arms sales
:00:34. > :00:37.after the damning UN report on civilian casualties in Yemen?
:00:38. > :00:41.Systematic and widespread violations of the laws of war have taken place,
:00:42. > :00:42.committed by both sides to this conflict,
:00:43. > :00:48.They found that 119 strikes by the Saudis have breached
:00:49. > :00:51.international humanitarian law, that is a very damning finding.
:00:52. > :00:54.I'll be asking the Saudi ambassador to the UN
:00:55. > :01:00.why Saudi planes are attacking non-military targets.
:01:01. > :01:10.All that striving and idealism and hope and progress
:01:11. > :01:14.and science and art and conscience, and it all ends like this,
:01:15. > :01:15.And in an exclusive television interview,
:01:16. > :01:18.Julian Barnes talks about heroes, cowards and Vladimir Putin
:01:19. > :01:28.on the day his novel about Shostokovich is published.
:01:29. > :01:32.An emergency World Health Organisation meeting today in Geneva
:01:33. > :01:38.has declared that the mosquito-borne Zika virus, linked to a surge
:01:39. > :01:40.of a birth defect called microcephaly in the Americas,
:01:41. > :01:47.has become a threat of alarming proportions.
:01:48. > :01:50.A causal relationship between Zika virus infection
:01:51. > :01:53.and birth malformations and neurological syndromes
:01:54. > :01:56.has not yet been established - this is a very important point.
:01:57. > :02:03.The possible links, only recently suspected,
:02:04. > :02:08.have rapidly changed the risk profile of Zika
:02:09. > :02:12.from a mild threat to one of alarming proportions.
:02:13. > :02:14.The increased incidence of microcephaly
:02:15. > :02:24.as it places a heartbreaking burden on families and communities.
:02:25. > :02:29.nor is there a vaccine to protect against it,
:02:30. > :02:31.and the governments of some South American countries
:02:32. > :02:33.are advising women not to get pregnant.
:02:34. > :02:36.This outbreak, which began in Brazil, has spread to 20 countries,
:02:37. > :02:39.and in all the countries of South and Central America,
:02:40. > :02:42.there are stringent anti-abortion laws,
:02:43. > :02:45.a fact which is leading some women to call for a change in the law.
:02:46. > :02:53.by human-rights campaigner and lawyer Debora Deniz.
:02:54. > :03:04.Good evening to you. Good evening. How fearful are women in Brazil and
:03:05. > :03:14.in the Americas more general about Zika? We have to name who are these
:03:15. > :03:18.women. Basically, they are poor women from two cities and the
:03:19. > :03:22.Brazilian north-east. It is not, generally speaking, women in
:03:23. > :03:28.general. They have social class, they have colour. So we talk about
:03:29. > :03:32.black women. Of course, there is tremendous fear of getting pregnant,
:03:33. > :03:39.of knowing what will happen after the delivery. What we have at this
:03:40. > :03:45.moment in this country is a group of women who is in fear of getting
:03:46. > :03:52.pregnant, and not knowing what will happen during the pregnancy. And
:03:53. > :03:56.what women, a poor woman who is pregnant, what does she do if she
:03:57. > :04:03.has the virus? What help does she get? What is open to her? In fact,
:04:04. > :04:07.in Brazil, abortion is a crime, so if a woman performs and macro
:04:08. > :04:14.abortion, she goes to the jail. We have only two exceptions, to save a
:04:15. > :04:22.woman's life and in the case of rape. A recent decision at the
:04:23. > :04:32.Brazilian Supreme Court authorises abortion in cases of anencephaly,
:04:33. > :04:37.another foetal malformation which is incompatible with life. In cases of
:04:38. > :04:41.microcephaly, women have to be pregnant, but it is important to
:04:42. > :04:44.remember that we have a social class split in Brazil, so when we talk
:04:45. > :04:53.about abortion, writes in general, we have to remember that wealthy
:04:54. > :05:00.women will access safe and illegal but safe abortion, and poor women
:05:01. > :05:05.will go to the illegal market or be pregnant. So tell me, what is the
:05:06. > :05:12.challenge were making to the Supreme Court? At this moment, we are
:05:13. > :05:19.planning to propose a case to the Brazilian Supreme Court. We have
:05:20. > :05:23.vast experience in the case of anencephaly and the one who was in
:05:24. > :05:31.the leading group to propose the case, and we won in 2012, and we are
:05:32. > :05:37.naming this case as women's rights case, and it is basically, it has
:05:38. > :05:43.three parts. The first one is we have a Minister of health who said
:05:44. > :05:52.that we have lost the fight against the mosquito. We would like to tell
:05:53. > :05:56.him that we have to win the fight against the mosquito. Before you
:05:57. > :06:00.tell me about the others, I want to ask you about the criticism being
:06:01. > :06:05.levelled, that you are using the Zika virus and the fear about it to
:06:06. > :06:14.change the abortion laws, that this is a bigger women's rights issue
:06:15. > :06:18.right now. Yes, the case is not only to change the Brazilian legislation
:06:19. > :06:22.on abortion. As I said, it is a women's rights case. Because we have
:06:23. > :06:27.to fight against the mosquito, but we have to offer a comprehensive
:06:28. > :06:34.sexual and reproductive health care to women. We live in a country where
:06:35. > :06:38.poor women do not have access to contraceptives, to have the early
:06:39. > :06:44.diagnosis of microcephaly, and abortion is only one piece of this.
:06:45. > :06:51.And indeed with microcephaly, and the way that ejection is made, it
:06:52. > :06:55.can sometimes be with a very late ultrasound in the eighth month of
:06:56. > :07:04.pregnancy, when an abortion is not an option. I know, but I think that
:07:05. > :07:10.we are moving ahead, and the moment that we have now, we can have access
:07:11. > :07:16.to diagnosis in an early moment of pregnancy. If women have full access
:07:17. > :07:21.to prenatal care. The problem in this country is even the diagnosis
:07:22. > :07:26.the aid not have, so I think that you are asking me something to the
:07:27. > :07:30.public powers, so it is probably a second moment after we will have the
:07:31. > :07:38.case, and if we change the situation in this country. But this is not
:07:39. > :07:42.only an abortion case, the way that we are planning it. It is more than
:07:43. > :07:50.that. It is a women's rights case. There is a third part. We have, at
:07:51. > :07:57.this moment, as the Minister of Help said, a new generation of children
:07:58. > :08:02.with microcephaly. We need a strong welfare state to care for them, to
:08:03. > :08:08.take care of them. Because many women will want to continue their
:08:09. > :08:12.pregnancy and have a child, however damaged that child might be, because
:08:13. > :08:18.they want that child, so presumably the welfare care is one of the most
:08:19. > :08:23.important elements of this. Of course, but we have to consider all
:08:24. > :08:27.the possibilities. We have to fight against the mosquito, we have to
:08:28. > :08:34.protect women's rights. How big a moment could this be for Brazil, do
:08:35. > :08:45.you think? Sorry? How big a moment could this be for Brazil, do you
:08:46. > :08:52.think? Yeah. You know, this is kind of... We are living and a
:08:53. > :08:58.conservative national congress, and this kind of scandal and corruption
:08:59. > :09:05.that we are facing, and this is a case to reframe what we need for
:09:06. > :09:12.public health needs. So I am not ignoring that we have a community of
:09:13. > :09:19.disability rights that has to be with us in a case like this. Thank
:09:20. > :09:23.you. But my point is that... Oh. I am afraid we have to ended there,
:09:24. > :09:25.Debora Deniz, thank you for joining us from Brasilia.
:09:26. > :09:27.At Westminster today, the Shadow Foreign Secretary
:09:28. > :09:29.called on the Government immediately to suspend all arms sales
:09:30. > :09:34.to Saudi Arabia following the UN report on Yemen by a panel
:09:35. > :09:39.on civilian targets in violation of international humanitarian law.
:09:40. > :09:42.It said that 60%, more than 2,500 civilian deaths and injuries,
:09:43. > :09:48.What is not clear is whether any British supplied weaponry,
:09:49. > :09:54.airplanes or bombs, were used in these attacks.
:09:55. > :09:56.Here's our diplomatic editor, Mark Urban.
:09:57. > :10:01.The Saudi-led coalition struck targets around Yemen again
:10:02. > :10:05.yesterday, part of the campaign that began ten months ago.
:10:06. > :10:08.As it has gone on, the humanitarian situation has worsened
:10:09. > :10:11.and allegations been made of deliberate targeting
:10:12. > :10:18.The leaked report from a UN fact-finding mission has now set out
:10:19. > :10:23.allegations that air strikes have breached humanitarian law.
:10:24. > :10:27.because it found that systematic and widespread violations
:10:28. > :10:30.of the laws of war have taken place, committed by both sides
:10:31. > :10:32.to this conflict, including the Saudi-led coalition.
:10:33. > :10:34.They found that 119 strikes by the Saudis
:10:35. > :10:36.have breached international humanitarian law.
:10:37. > :10:42.Because they were targeted badly or...?
:10:43. > :10:44.Well, the principles of international humanitarian law
:10:45. > :10:45.require the warring parties to distinguish
:10:46. > :10:49.between military targets and civilian objects.
:10:50. > :10:52.We found that schools and mosques and markets and residential areas
:10:53. > :10:54.have been hit by the Saudi-led coalition,
:10:55. > :10:59.The report has made the British Government's position trickier.
:11:00. > :11:02.Having long sold Saudi Arabia combat aircraft and bombs,
:11:03. > :11:08.Britain is now finding that lucrative relationship under fire.
:11:09. > :11:12.Given the detail of the UN panel's report and the extreme seriousness
:11:13. > :11:15.of its findings, will the Government now suspend arms sales
:11:16. > :11:19.to Saudi Arabia until that investigation concludes?
:11:20. > :11:22.Mr Speaker, this is about whether the Government
:11:23. > :11:27.is implementing its own arms-control rules.
:11:28. > :11:35.has been to question the accuracy of that latest UN report.
:11:36. > :11:38.The people who wrote this report didn't go there.
:11:39. > :11:41.They are basing this on satellite technology.
:11:42. > :11:44.That does not mean to say that we dismiss it at all,
:11:45. > :11:49.And I commit myself to sit down with the Saudi Arabians
:11:50. > :11:53.to make sure that we go through this with a fine-tooth comb.
:11:54. > :11:57.But as the Foreign Secretary made clear to Newsnight,
:11:58. > :12:01.the UK is now paying close attention to these allegations.
:12:02. > :12:03.The Saudis deny that there have been any breaches
:12:04. > :12:08.Obviously, that denial alone is not enough,
:12:09. > :12:11.we need to see proper investigations.
:12:12. > :12:13.We need to work with the Saudis to establish
:12:14. > :12:18.that international humanitarian law has been complied with.
:12:19. > :12:21.The pressure group Campaign Against The Arms Trade
:12:22. > :12:26.is now preparing a legal challenge to the British
:12:27. > :12:30.Government's export licences for weapons to Saudi Arabia.
:12:31. > :12:33.The UK Government has failed to make sufficient inquiries as to the basis
:12:34. > :12:37.for these Saudi assurances to enable it lawfully to conclude that,
:12:38. > :12:40.notwithstanding the evidence to the contrary,
:12:41. > :12:45.there is not a clear risk that military equipment
:12:46. > :12:49.may be used in violations of international humanitarian law.
:12:50. > :12:52.The Yemeni conflict has claimed thousands of lives
:12:53. > :13:00.people like these amputees at a makeshift rehabilitation centre.
:13:01. > :13:04.The UN also accuses Houthi rebels of breaching humanitarian law,
:13:05. > :13:10.may be used in violations of international humanitarian law.
:13:11. > :13:13.and in fighting against those irregulars
:13:14. > :13:15.the Saudis can claim the backing of the UN resolution.
:13:16. > :13:18.But however much they say right is on their side,
:13:19. > :13:20.the issue of civilian casualties is becoming a big problem for them
:13:21. > :13:26.Earlier, I spoke to Ambassador Abdallah bin Yahya Al-Moallimi,
:13:27. > :13:33.the Saudi representative to the United Nations.
:13:34. > :13:41.I began by asking him whether he had admitted the charge in the reports
:13:42. > :13:44.that there had been 119 Saudi coalition air strikes in violation
:13:45. > :13:54.of humanitarian law. We deny that we have had any raids aimed at anything
:13:55. > :13:59.but military targets of the Houthis and the forces of the former
:14:00. > :14:07.president. We do not know the source of the information that was provided
:14:08. > :14:10.in the report. We believe that these sources have been mostly Houthi
:14:11. > :14:17.related propaganda individuals and agencies. We do not think that the
:14:18. > :14:23.team had sufficient presence on the ground to be able to document that.
:14:24. > :14:31.These strikes included refugee camps, weddings, two hospitals,
:14:32. > :14:40.water bottling plant, Oxfam food warehouse. If they were targets then
:14:41. > :14:47.your bombs were aimed very badly. No, the wedding is proven to be an
:14:48. > :14:59.erroneous report. It was a gathering of forces loyal to the president.
:15:00. > :15:04.The Medecins Sans Frontieres, one of them we acknowledged was a mistake
:15:05. > :15:11.and we spoke with them. Look, mistakes do happen. But the extent
:15:12. > :15:18.of these mistakes is not as wide as it has been reported. But the point
:15:19. > :15:23.is that 60% of civilian deaths, according to this report, 2682
:15:24. > :15:30.people were from air launched explosives by the coalition. Is that
:15:31. > :15:35.an acceptable number? No, it is not, and it is a hugely overestimated
:15:36. > :15:38.number. We think that the vast majority of the civilian casualties
:15:39. > :15:45.have been the result of arbitrary artillery shelling is by the
:15:46. > :15:53.Houthis. So a bottling plant, Oxfam food warehouse, a refugee camp, are
:15:54. > :16:02.you seriously suggesting that Houthis were using an Oxfam food
:16:03. > :16:05.warehouse to house their troops? Probably not. I'm not particularly
:16:06. > :16:11.familiar with the Oxfam food warehouse. But I'm certainly used
:16:12. > :16:15.the bottling plant. I'm certain that what was described as a wedding
:16:16. > :16:19.gathering was nothing but a gathering of military troops, and
:16:20. > :16:23.many others. Can you guarantee that none of the civilian deaths in Yemen
:16:24. > :16:29.were as a result of the use of British weaponry? I can guarantee
:16:30. > :16:33.that all the weaponry that are in possession of the Saudi Armed Forces
:16:34. > :16:37.and the Armed Forces of the coalition are used to target
:16:38. > :16:43.military targets, and are used in conformity with international
:16:44. > :16:45.humanitarian law. Why did you want the resolution for an independent
:16:46. > :16:50.investigation into what was happening with civilian deaths in
:16:51. > :16:56.Yemen to be shelved? We supported an alternative resolution that was
:16:57. > :17:00.presented and suggested by the veggie debate government of Yemen.
:17:01. > :17:03.That government itself is accused of war crimes. What have you got to
:17:04. > :17:08.lose with an independent investigation? Surely that's what's
:17:09. > :17:11.needed, if indeed it is a possibility that 60% of civilian
:17:12. > :17:18.deaths are caused by explosives from the air? We can't work based on
:17:19. > :17:26.assumptions that are made on an arbitrary basis. It is a UN
:17:27. > :17:29.investigation. No, it is not a UN investigation. It is a report that
:17:30. > :17:34.was collected outside of a UN mandate and it was based on
:17:35. > :17:41.information provided by the Houthis in most cases. Let me just turn to
:17:42. > :17:45.another aspect of this. There are at least six British military advisers
:17:46. > :17:49.in the command and control centre for the coalition, what do they do?
:17:50. > :17:53.I do not know, I am not willing to talk about the command and control
:17:54. > :17:59.centre or what the military personnel do there. Would you accept
:18:00. > :18:03.that these British military trainers would be looking to make sure no
:18:04. > :18:08.British weaponry was used in anyway that could kill or maim civilians?
:18:09. > :18:12.No, I don't think I would expect them to be doing that, that is the
:18:13. > :18:17.responsibility of the Saudi Armed Forces. As far as we are concerned
:18:18. > :18:21.it does not and whether they are British supplied, American supplied,
:18:22. > :18:27.once they are in our possession they are Saudi weapons and weapons of the
:18:28. > :18:31.coalition. And we intend to use them as responsibly as we possibly can
:18:32. > :18:37.and in full conformity with international laws and regulations.
:18:38. > :18:42.If the British military advisers advised you not to hit a certain
:18:43. > :18:49.target, would the Saudis comply with that? That's not of anybody's
:18:50. > :18:53.business other than the military leaders of the Saudi and coalition
:18:54. > :18:58.Armed Forces. The reason I'm asking this is because Philip Hammond,
:18:59. > :19:02.Foreign Secretary, came on Newsnight in September and called for proper
:19:03. > :19:08.investigations into Saudi air strikes in Yemen and he said that
:19:09. > :19:12.Saudi assurances of compliance with humanitarian law are not enough. I
:19:13. > :19:16.wonder what representations the British government have made to you
:19:17. > :19:19.following that. You would have to ask that question to Philip Hammond
:19:20. > :19:24.and the British government. Because if it is seen to be that coalition
:19:25. > :19:29.strikes are in violation of international humanitarian law, UK
:19:30. > :19:33.sales of arms to Saudi would have to hold if they have been found to be
:19:34. > :19:37.in breach of international law. And I wonder if there was a suspension
:19:38. > :19:43.of British arms sales, how the Saudis would respond. We conduct our
:19:44. > :19:46.activities with the utmost care and responsibility and we do not expect
:19:47. > :19:54.any such action to be taken by the UK Government, or to be required to
:19:55. > :19:57.start with. Ambassador, thank you very much indeed. Thank you.
:19:58. > :19:59.Last summer, Newsnight and BuzzFeed News started a run
:20:00. > :20:02.of reports on Kids Company, the celebrated youth-work charity,
:20:03. > :20:06.as it ran into trouble and collapsed.
:20:07. > :20:11.One of those reports, into allegations by former staff
:20:12. > :20:14.members that the charity failed to report sexual abuse and violence
:20:15. > :20:16.by clients of the charity, sparked a police investigation.
:20:17. > :20:18.Today, the police announced that they do not have sufficient
:20:19. > :20:26.In an interview with BBC News today, Ms Batmangeilidjh had this to say.
:20:27. > :20:34.They behaved incredibly honourably, and they kept boundaries,
:20:35. > :20:40.and they did their investigations based on fact.
:20:41. > :20:43.But the fact is, when a children's charity is accused of sexually
:20:44. > :20:46.abusing the children in its care, it's the kiss of death.
:20:47. > :20:51.Chris Cook, who has led on this story for Newsnight, is with us.
:20:52. > :20:58.Is this a clean bill of health now for Kids Company? If you talk to the
:20:59. > :21:02.former leaders they have always talked about how they thought these
:21:03. > :21:05.allegations were unfounded, even talked about some of them being
:21:06. > :21:10.malicious, and they see this as real vindication. In more neutral terms
:21:11. > :21:13.what has happened, Scotland Yard have been investigating for six
:21:14. > :21:16.months and they just don't have enough evidence to mount a
:21:17. > :21:20.prosecution. There are a couple of strands still going on, and it is
:21:21. > :21:24.worth keeping an eye on the Charity commission, looking at the financial
:21:25. > :21:28.side. It is worth a member in a lot of the allegations about Kids
:21:29. > :21:32.Company, particularly the ones we published, were about the misuse of
:21:33. > :21:39.funds, not illegal things but odd use of money. One thing from the
:21:40. > :21:42.video we saw, she talked about the charity being accused of abusing
:21:43. > :21:45.children in its care, I don't think anybody accuse them of that. The
:21:46. > :21:49.issue was they heard complaints about clients of theirs and they did
:21:50. > :21:54.not do enough with them, did not take them to the authorities. So
:21:55. > :21:59.where does that leave all of this? They are really not vindicated on a
:22:00. > :22:03.lot of things. This is very welcome news for the charity, but they have
:22:04. > :22:07.warranty had a report from the National Audit Office which
:22:08. > :22:10.questioned the use of ?40 million of public money. We have had a report
:22:11. > :22:15.from the Public Accounts Committee of MPs that said the government put
:22:16. > :22:19.money into what they said was a failed, expensive experiment. A new
:22:20. > :22:23.report is expected next Monday from another committee of MPs, the public
:22:24. > :22:28.administration committee. What is that likely to say? We don't know,
:22:29. > :22:32.but what we can say is that they've been looking at governance of the
:22:33. > :22:36.charity, its effectiveness. They've heard more evidence than anybody
:22:37. > :22:42.else. They've heard cases where clients were given almost ?1000 a
:22:43. > :22:45.week in support by the charity. They've heard evidence that perhaps
:22:46. > :22:49.the charity didn't help nearly as many people as it said it was
:22:50. > :22:52.helping. They've heard evidence from local authority officials about
:22:53. > :22:57.whether it was a safe place for young people. It is worth pointing
:22:58. > :23:02.out that the person who is likely to be reading this report is the former
:23:03. > :23:05.chair of the trustees. Because the trustees are really going to get a
:23:06. > :23:11.kick in, I would expect. Alan Yentob, the former creative director
:23:12. > :23:13.of the BBC was chair of the trustees for Kids Company for more than a
:23:14. > :23:16.decade. Thanks very much indeed. In the face of the constant
:23:17. > :23:18.cruelties and purges of a totalitarian regime,
:23:19. > :23:24.would you act as a hero, stand up to your oppressors,
:23:25. > :23:29.and face the likelyhood of death? Or allow them to bend your will
:23:30. > :23:32.to theirs and muddle through? of Julian Barnes's latest
:23:33. > :23:37.novel, published today, about the anguished accommodations
:23:38. > :23:39.Russian composer Shostakovich made In The Noise of Time, Barnes
:23:40. > :23:44.questions whether for an artist, artistic survival
:23:45. > :23:46.is possible or worthwhile, when the artist is destroyed
:23:47. > :23:47.by shame and the betrayal of others,
:23:48. > :23:50.especially of his fellow artists. In his only TV interview,
:23:51. > :23:55.I spoke to him about the composer whose music
:23:56. > :24:04.he has listened to since he was 18. And why he thinks the rise of no
:24:05. > :24:16.platform represents the closing of the mind.
:24:17. > :24:22.He didn't want to make himself into a dramatic character but sometimes
:24:23. > :24:26.as his mind skittered in the small hours he thought, so this is what
:24:27. > :24:31.history has come to. All that striving and idealism and hope and
:24:32. > :24:37.progress and science and art and conscience, it all ends like this.
:24:38. > :24:41.With a man standing by a lift. At his feet a small case containing
:24:42. > :24:43.cigarettes, underwear and toothpaste. Standing there and
:24:44. > :24:53.waiting to be taken away. In the book you discuss in a way
:24:54. > :24:56.whether being a hero is easier Often looking at a
:24:57. > :25:00.tyrannical state from the outside, we want
:25:01. > :25:03.people to be heroes. But then we are also asking
:25:04. > :25:07.for their blood when we do. And to be a hero you can throw
:25:08. > :25:11.a bomb, you can pull a trigger, On the other hand,
:25:12. > :25:16.in Stalin's Russia it wasn't just you who was wiped out,
:25:17. > :25:18.it was your family, friends, So your only choice,
:25:19. > :25:26.really, was to compromise. He paid Caesar as best
:25:27. > :25:37.he could while keeping as much of himself, his private soul and his
:25:38. > :25:49.music as untouched as possible. There's a scene at the beginning
:25:50. > :25:52.of the book where he has his first meeting with power, as it was,
:25:53. > :25:54.the forces of Stalin. And he thinks that he
:25:55. > :25:58.is going to be purged. And he waits outside a lift
:25:59. > :26:02.for almost a fortnight. After Lady Macbeth was condemned
:26:03. > :26:05.he thought that he was probably What happened, oddly,
:26:06. > :26:10.on the weekend between the Saturday and the Monday was
:26:11. > :26:11.that the interrogator So he was sort of off
:26:12. > :26:16.the hook for a bit. But he still thought
:26:17. > :26:18.that he would be taken So he spent the night standing
:26:19. > :26:26.on the landing outside his flat by the lift doors, because he didn't
:26:27. > :26:30.want his wife and child, the trauma of having the door broken
:26:31. > :26:33.down in the middle of the night, child taken away, perhaps
:26:34. > :26:36.to a Soviet orphanage where she would be brought up
:26:37. > :26:39.as a good communist and never know That was unthinkable
:26:40. > :26:42.to him, but that was You have Shostakovich say it's easy
:26:43. > :26:48.being a communist if you don't live And you talk about
:26:49. > :26:51.Picasso and Sartre. One of the interesting sides
:26:52. > :26:57.of Shostakovich is he was a great ironist and he was
:26:58. > :27:01.also very sarcastic. He was particularly harsh
:27:02. > :27:08.on fairweather friends, and on those he saw as helping
:27:09. > :27:13.enforce an entrenched Stalinism. Stravinsky, whom Shostakovich
:27:14. > :27:18.revered, they met twice, very uneasy meeting on both
:27:19. > :27:21.occasions, Stravinsky never went to the help of any
:27:22. > :27:27.persecuted Soviet composer. So Shostakovich's conclusion
:27:28. > :27:33.is that you can have artistic integrity, as Stravinsky
:27:34. > :27:35.did, and not have moral integrity. He thought that that
:27:36. > :27:37.was a weakness of So on one hand you have
:27:38. > :27:41.the Solzhenitsyn figure and on the other
:27:42. > :27:43.side the Shostakovich figure, which do you think
:27:44. > :27:45.you would have been? Oh, I think I would
:27:46. > :27:48.have been a coward. I would have done some kind of deal
:27:49. > :27:51.in order to keep on writing Shostakovich used to say that music
:27:52. > :28:00.is not like Chinese eggs, it doesn't gain by being
:28:01. > :28:03.buried in the ground He did not think that when a piece
:28:04. > :28:07.of his was banned it would get He just thought the people
:28:08. > :28:11.for whom it was being written The book is about truth
:28:12. > :28:17.and freedom and conscience. I wonder if you think
:28:18. > :28:19.now that there is artistic Well I'd be very wary about writing
:28:20. > :28:31.a satirical novel about Putin. One of my favourite Russian sayings
:28:32. > :28:35.which I used as an epigraph to one of my novels 20 years ago
:28:36. > :28:38.and I repeat in the book is: Which is so wonderfully ironic
:28:39. > :28:45.and so Russian and so Shostakovich. And they do say it,
:28:46. > :28:49.Putin, don't they? That he is very
:28:50. > :28:51.straightforward to deal with, and when he lies,
:28:52. > :28:53.he lies brilliantly. But if you were in opposition
:28:54. > :28:57.to Putin, given what has happened to Litvinenko,
:28:58. > :29:01.would you have sleepless nights? I would, I would have
:29:02. > :29:04.sleepless days as well. And you can understand
:29:05. > :29:08.why they are building mansions, the rich ones,
:29:09. > :29:16.all around North London. Which is interesting now
:29:17. > :29:19.because there is a resurgence of interest and affection for Russia
:29:20. > :29:21.from the British left. I don't think it's the shining city
:29:22. > :29:29.on the hill any more. But I remember when the wall came
:29:30. > :29:36.down, I remember being very disappointed with Western
:29:37. > :29:40.politicians because I thought that they would say, ah,
:29:41. > :29:45.now we can painlessly and without any fear look
:29:46. > :29:53.at what left-wing systems had and maybe take some of the best
:29:54. > :29:56.that they had, and some Whereas in fact when the Cold War
:29:57. > :30:03.ended everyone was sort of high-fiving and saying "We're
:30:04. > :30:06.the best, our system has won." Terrible consequences
:30:07. > :30:16.in Eastern Europe, complete Pensioners who'd worked as surgeons,
:30:17. > :30:23.say, having to go and dig I have friends in Bulgaria
:30:24. > :30:28.who told me all about it. But you talked about being a child
:30:29. > :30:31.of the Cold War, and having very distinct memories of
:30:32. > :30:34.what repression really was. And I wonder if you think
:30:35. > :30:37.that we take free speech and the attacks on
:30:38. > :30:39.freedom of speech too Particularly on no platform
:30:40. > :30:48.is really what I'm talking about, Actually what do you make
:30:49. > :30:54.of the idea of no platform? I think it's crazy,
:30:55. > :30:58.especially in academic situations where the whole point
:30:59. > :31:01.of being young and clever and at university
:31:02. > :31:04.is to have your views challenged and opposed,
:31:05. > :31:07.and to have forceful figures like Germaine Greer
:31:08. > :31:10.come and annoy you. I think no-platforming
:31:11. > :31:18.is a very bad idea. Because you disagree
:31:19. > :31:24.with someone about one item of thought, therefore
:31:25. > :31:27.the rest their thinking is not only That's a kind of
:31:28. > :31:35.closing of the mind. I don't know when there
:31:36. > :31:42.was ever a golden age. Earlier this week,
:31:43. > :31:44.Newsnight revealed that a number of key witnesses
:31:45. > :31:47.to the Tory party bullying inquiry were calling for a senior official
:31:48. > :31:49.to stand down from his role
:31:50. > :31:51.overseeing the investigation. At first, Rob Semple
:31:52. > :31:52.refused to do so, Our investigations correspondent
:31:53. > :31:57.Nick Hopkins is here with the latest
:31:58. > :32:10.on this story. Who is Rob Semple, and why is he so
:32:11. > :32:13.important? Rob Semple runs what is called the Tory party national
:32:14. > :32:18.convention, which represents volunteers at Lansdowne the country,
:32:19. > :32:24.so we has a big job, and he has a place at the top table of the party.
:32:25. > :32:30.-- volunteers up and down the country. He was also one of the
:32:31. > :32:33.officials due to set in judgment on the bullying inquiry sparked by the
:32:34. > :32:38.death of Elliott Johnson. The problem is that Mr Semple has been
:32:39. > :32:43.linked with a man at the heart of the allegations of bullying, a chap
:32:44. > :32:46.called mark Clark, and this was raising real concerns among some
:32:47. > :32:51.witnesses who said that it is inappropriate for Mr Semple to hold
:32:52. > :32:55.this role, he should stand down. Mr Semple was refusing to do so, and
:32:56. > :33:00.when we spoke to Central Office earlier this week, they said they
:33:01. > :33:06.would not ask him to do so. So what has changed? Earlier this week,
:33:07. > :33:12.Semple was digging his heels in, when I asked whether he would stand
:33:13. > :33:16.down, he said, no, I was one of the proposers of the independent
:33:17. > :33:22.investigation. But that was before he saw our film on Tuesday night in
:33:23. > :33:25.which Elliott Johnson's parents spoke very movingly about the loss
:33:26. > :33:31.of their son, and they also said that they thought Mr Semple should
:33:32. > :33:36.stand aside. He should do the decent thing and realise that any inquiry
:33:37. > :33:40.conducted by the Conservative Party in which he takes apart is always
:33:41. > :33:45.going to be questioned by the general public, people will say, how
:33:46. > :33:48.can a man who has associated with Mark Clarke be seen to be a person
:33:49. > :33:55.that is actually overseeing part of the inquiry? Well, hearing that
:33:56. > :33:58.seems to have made him change his mind, and earlier today Mr Semple
:33:59. > :34:03.released a statement in which he said, as a father myself, the wishes
:34:04. > :34:08.of Mr and Mr Johnson are paramount to me, and after seeing their
:34:09. > :34:12.interview on BBC TV, I have decided to recuse myself from the board
:34:13. > :34:17.meeting that will discuss the bullying report. He also said he did
:34:18. > :34:23.not regard that as a reflection on his own impartiality. What happens
:34:24. > :34:26.now? I have spoken to Mr and misses Johnson tonight, they are relieved
:34:27. > :34:31.that Mr Semple has stepped aside. They describe it as a victory for
:34:32. > :34:37.common sense. But I think they and other witnesses to the inquiry are
:34:38. > :34:41.wondering, I think they are slightly be willed it, why did it take the
:34:42. > :34:44.Tory party so long to realise that this was a potential problem, and
:34:45. > :34:49.all the way through this there have been episodes in which they have had
:34:50. > :34:55.doubts about the independence and integrity of this inquiry. I should
:34:56. > :34:56.also say that Mark Clarke denies all the allegations against him. Nick,
:34:57. > :34:58.thank you very much indeed. It's been a stalwart
:34:59. > :35:02.of military campaigns, beloved by 007,
:35:03. > :35:04.the world's most famous spy, royalty and most farmers
:35:05. > :35:06.in the country, the Landrover Defender
:35:07. > :35:08.has been in production longer than any other vehicle,
:35:09. > :35:13.the best part of 70 years. While recent iterations of the car
:35:14. > :35:15.has become a must-have for the school run
:35:16. > :35:19.in London's pricier postcodes, the last of the original
:35:20. > :35:22.bone-shakers rolls off the production line
:35:23. > :35:27.in Solihull tomorrow. that meets safety
:35:28. > :35:32.and emission regulations, but that will hardly compensate fans
:35:33. > :35:34.of the simple brute which could be fixed
:35:35. > :35:36.with the blow of a hammer. Talking of which, here's motoring
:35:37. > :35:55.editor Stephen Smith. A museum piece that people have a
:35:56. > :35:59.soft spot for but has supposedly been overtaken by new technology.
:36:00. > :36:04.Never thought I would be associated with anything like that. I am
:36:05. > :36:07.talking, of course, about the Land Rover Defender, seen here being put
:36:08. > :36:14.through its paces on a secret BBC stage where Countryfile is filmed.
:36:15. > :36:19.-- estate. It is really about and Wenger, I should have some sheep in
:36:20. > :36:25.the back or a party of commandos. -- about an adventure. Next time you
:36:26. > :36:28.are late for work, it is worth remembering that nothing but nothing
:36:29. > :36:38.gets in the way of a Land Rover. Like the Spitfire and
:36:39. > :36:43.bread-and-butter pudding... The Defender was an all conquering
:36:44. > :36:46.British invention thrown together by serendipity and inspired
:36:47. > :36:50.improvisation. We took an American jeep and made it our own. It is a
:36:51. > :36:55.bit like what the Rolling Stones did with the blues. The genius
:36:56. > :37:00.responsible was Maurice Wilkes, who tested his Land Rover on the beach
:37:01. > :37:03.at Anglesey. He wanted something hardy and farmers could choke up
:37:04. > :37:13.hill farms in and repair themselves if they had to. For the lowdown on
:37:14. > :37:20.his creation, I consulted design guru Stephen Bayley. Welcome on
:37:21. > :37:24.board! The North face of Soho! E-group a sketch in the sand of the
:37:25. > :37:30.day in Anglesey and said, we are going to make a better four-wheel
:37:31. > :37:34.drive like this. -- he drew. The original one had components from the
:37:35. > :37:38.cheap, but it is altogether more sophisticated. It is that terribly
:37:39. > :37:46.rare example of a British product, to my mind, a central thing doing
:37:47. > :37:50.Bush values, probity, no-nonsense. Honesty as well, this is a very
:37:51. > :37:56.honest vehicle, there is no pretence about what it is. It is either
:37:57. > :38:02.military equipment or agricultural plant. As it also featured on the
:38:03. > :38:08.school run? This is the great grandparent of the notorious Chelsea
:38:09. > :38:16.tractor. There is a direct line of descent from the Land Rover to the
:38:17. > :38:20.popular and much derided sports utility vehicle. But no, I do not
:38:21. > :38:25.think people use the original Land Rover Defender on school runs. It is
:38:26. > :38:32.actually quite hard work to drive. It is not a relaxing car, the
:38:33. > :38:39.difference is like flying in a 1948 aeroplane, you know, which was
:38:40. > :38:43.noisy, uncomfortable and vibrated a lot. The difference between that and
:38:44. > :38:46.an Airbus, silent, smooth and stable. You are having an authentic
:38:47. > :38:59.1948 driving experience here. Is this the most storeyed set of
:39:00. > :39:03.wheels in London? Jack's Series 1 Land Rover once belonged to an army
:39:04. > :39:10.bomb disposal unit, and a vehicle and is a description was linked to
:39:11. > :39:15.the great train robbers. -- answering. I have snapped the rear
:39:16. > :39:20.axle, the gearbox gave up on me. That is a piano pedal, it is set on
:39:21. > :39:26.fire twice. I have had the tail for loch outside Buckingham Palace. I
:39:27. > :39:33.put it in the back and drove off. -- Paul off. Although it is the end of
:39:34. > :39:35.a vehicle, it is also the end of a mentality, the Land Rover,
:39:36. > :39:39.especially the defender, is something which is very empowering,
:39:40. > :39:47.because with very little skill you can work on it yourself, and now
:39:48. > :39:49.people buy vehicles with, you know, five years' warranty and then
:39:50. > :40:00.actually replace them within that period. You know, the Defender will
:40:01. > :40:05.go on for ever. Yes, we will all miss the Defender, high and low
:40:06. > :40:10.alike. According to the Queen, Her Majesty herself gets about in one on
:40:11. > :40:17.her island states, ideal for a bit of stag spotting. You cannot beat
:40:18. > :40:21.pulling on the plus fours, climbing into the old defender and popping
:40:22. > :40:28.out into the countryside. It feels like adventure, especially if you
:40:29. > :40:37.have a nice flask of oxtail with you and an eyeful of red deer. But like
:40:38. > :40:51.the man said, they think it is all Rover. It is now. The front pages,
:40:52. > :40:55.going to the Guardian, EU steps in over Google tax row. On the
:40:56. > :41:00.right-hand side, deal close at UK benefit kids for EU workers. The
:41:01. > :41:07.Daily Mail, ministers promise cosy tax deal for US giants. The Daily
:41:08. > :41:11.Telegraph, Cecil Rhodes' statue at Oxford, they say it is to stay in
:41:12. > :41:15.place after furious donors threaten to withdraw gifts and bequests worth
:41:16. > :41:19.more than ?1 million if it was removed. Finally, the Financial
:41:20. > :41:26.Times, a different take on that story, David Cameron eyes compromise
:41:27. > :41:31.over migrants benefit cuts. How significant is this, plans for
:41:32. > :41:35.reform in Europe? Potentially very significant, because he has managed
:41:36. > :41:39.to meld two things we have been talking about, an emergency brake on
:41:40. > :41:42.migration and forcing people to wait four years until they can claim
:41:43. > :41:47.benefits after they have migrated to the UK. He has merged them into one,
:41:48. > :41:52.and emergency brake which will delay the point at which new migrants can
:41:53. > :41:55.get benefits for four years. It is the worst of both worlds from the
:41:56. > :42:00.perspective of Eurosceptics, because what it means is that he is
:42:01. > :42:05.potentially negotiating a deal which means that only Brussels will be
:42:06. > :42:09.able to tell us when the four year moratorium will come in, that will
:42:10. > :42:11.be in the hands of the European Commission. Thanks very much indeed.
:42:12. > :42:14.Before we go, let's go back 60 years to January 28th 1956.
:42:15. > :42:17.grabbed his guitar and shook his hips
:42:18. > :42:20.in front of a television camera for the first time,
:42:21. > :42:22.on the Dorsey Brothers' Stage Show on CBS.
:42:23. > :42:34.# Get out of that kitchen and rattle those pots and pans
:42:35. > :42:39.# Well, roll my breakfast cos I'm a hungry man
:42:40. > :42:47.# I believe you're doing me wrong and now I know
:42:48. > :42:52.# Cos the harder I work, the faster the money goes
:42:53. > :42:54.# Well, I said shake, rattle and roll
:42:55. > :43:13.# Well, you won't do right to save your doggone soul... #
:43:14. > :43:19.The Met Office has issued a warning for damaging gusts and winds, be
:43:20. > :43:22.prepared for the potential for disruption, because we could see
:43:23. > :43:23.Gast in excess of