:00:07. > :00:08.Policing cases of historic sexual abuse.
:00:09. > :00:15.Even top cops recognise the system isn't working.
:00:16. > :00:24.It looks like when the suspect was a member of the establishment, as it
:00:25. > :00:25.would be termed, then clearly other members of the stabber Schmid will
:00:26. > :00:28.come round to detect them. The Metropolitan Police Commissioner
:00:29. > :00:30.has the job of seeking the right balance between the rights
:00:31. > :00:32.of victims and suspects. Also tonight, the financial trading
:00:33. > :00:37.floors are feeling spooked. Or maybe they just know something
:00:38. > :00:40.the rest of us don't. We'll try to work out how worried
:00:41. > :00:43.we should be. And will Europe's killer whales
:00:44. > :01:03.and dolphins be wiped out You can see the skin and the blood
:01:04. > :01:07.are here, the PCB is an invisible killer, really.
:01:08. > :01:12.On one view, when it comes to the sexual abuse of young people,
:01:13. > :01:19.Britain has gone from a country that was absurdly excusing
:01:20. > :01:22.the guilty to one hysterically pursuing the innocent.
:01:23. > :01:25.Certainly, people holding that view have dumped a lot of criticism
:01:26. > :01:27.on the Met Police lately, for its recent behaviour towards,
:01:28. > :01:34.So today, the Met turned itself in, establishing an inquiry
:01:35. > :01:39.into its record at investigating historic cases.
:01:40. > :01:43.And the Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe suggests in a newspaper
:01:44. > :01:44.article tomorrow that suspects should have
:01:45. > :01:48.Our Investigations Editor Nick Hopkins is with me.
:01:49. > :01:51.What's your reading of today's announcement?
:01:52. > :01:58.As you say, Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe is under enormous pressure. Today he
:01:59. > :02:02.announced that a retired judge would be reviewing his handling of high
:02:03. > :02:06.profile cases. I think this reflects two things. The first is that he
:02:07. > :02:11.says he is reacting to public concern. I'm not sure that's true,
:02:12. > :02:14.no one is protesting in the streets about all this. But there are
:02:15. > :02:18.politicians past and present an certain newspapers that have been
:02:19. > :02:23.calling for his head in recent weeks and I think they have slightly
:02:24. > :02:26.forced his hand. Second, I suspect that Sir Bernard is frankly fed up
:02:27. > :02:31.and he's taking a bit of a gamble. I think he's hoping that this review
:02:32. > :02:36.will broadly support the way the Met has handled these cases but also
:02:37. > :02:39.underline a conundrum that his and other forces face, that they feel
:02:40. > :02:43.they are dammed if they look into these kind of allegations and they
:02:44. > :02:47.feel they are accused of cover-ups if they don't. Here is what Sir
:02:48. > :02:51.Bernard had to say earlier today about the review but also a reminder
:02:52. > :02:54.of why all this has become so controversial.
:02:55. > :02:57.Investigating historical child sex abuse is very difficult.
:02:58. > :03:02.We've had quite a moral crisis over the last 18 months where initially
:03:03. > :03:05.it was said that very senior members of Government had lost
:03:06. > :03:08.dossiers, that they themselves were subject to allegations.
:03:09. > :03:11.And now here we are, the very adverse of that criticism,
:03:12. > :03:13.that in fact we weren't ignoring things, we've gone too far.
:03:14. > :03:16.Surely it's right that someone should look at that and try
:03:17. > :03:24.And perhaps gives some guidance about how police officers and others
:03:25. > :03:26.approach these difficult historic allegations where the evidence
:03:27. > :03:28.sometimes is lost, where people's memories have faded.
:03:29. > :03:32.It's so easy to make allegations but then how do we prove them?
:03:33. > :03:35.Surely I think we all need somebody to look at that seriously.
:03:36. > :03:43.If Jimmy Savile could get away with his abuse, well,
:03:44. > :03:53.Claims of a Westminster paedophile ring have lingered for decades.
:03:54. > :03:56.So when, in 2014, a man came forward claiming to be one of its victims,
:03:57. > :04:04.They launched Operation Midland and famously they said this.
:04:05. > :04:08.I believe what Nick is saying to be credible and to be true.
:04:09. > :04:12.Then came the house searches, including a war hero, Lord Bramall.
:04:13. > :04:20.Not so the former Tory MP Harvey Proctor.
:04:21. > :04:24.Last August he called an extraordinary press conference
:04:25. > :04:28.in which he detailed and then denounced the claims against him.
:04:29. > :04:31.Anyone of a delicate or nervous disposition should leave
:04:32. > :04:39.Six weeks later, a BBC Panorama programme questioned whether the VIP
:04:40. > :04:50.Scotland Yard insisted its inquiry was ongoing.
:04:51. > :04:54.But they did admit that the former Home Secretary, Lord Brittan,
:04:55. > :04:57.also allegedly involved in the VIP paedophile ring, had gone
:04:58. > :04:59.to his death not knowing the force had already cleared him.
:05:00. > :05:06.Last month, The Met told Lord Bramall he faces
:05:07. > :05:18.Amid reports that the Westminster paedophile ring probe has gone
:05:19. > :05:21.nowhere and will soon be wound up, the Yard stands accused
:05:22. > :05:30.Things post-Savile have come full circle.
:05:31. > :05:40.With all that in mind, earlier today I spoke to serve pizza Fahey, who
:05:41. > :05:45.was until recently the Chief Constable of Manchester. -- Sir
:05:46. > :05:47.Peter Fahey. Bernard Hogan-Howe
:05:48. > :05:48.is under pressure. Because I think somebody
:05:49. > :05:53.in his position, a Chief Constable, deals with hundreds
:05:54. > :05:55.of incidents every single day. To personalise it in this way
:05:56. > :05:57.I think is very wrong. I think we should be worried
:05:58. > :06:01.about the fact that the two previous Is this what we really want in terms
:06:02. > :06:05.of such a vital position? I think, you know, I need to declare
:06:06. > :06:08.that clearly Bernard is someone I've But do I think any objective view
:06:09. > :06:13.would say that he is When an officer used
:06:14. > :06:17.the words credible and true, It did, but on the other hand,
:06:18. > :06:25.I can understand the dilemma Detectives have to absolutely go out
:06:26. > :06:32.of their way to really get it across to victims and potential
:06:33. > :06:38.victims that when they come across, their account, will that first
:06:39. > :06:41.account be believed or seen as true? Clearly it is the job
:06:42. > :06:46.of the investigator to then challenge that victim's reality
:06:47. > :06:48.in terms of looking for evidence which will either support that
:06:49. > :06:51.all will undermine it. But you understand why any
:06:52. > :06:53.detective would say that. Well, if there is clearly particular
:06:54. > :07:04.issue about a delay in somebody being given information
:07:05. > :07:06.then absolutely, I think you would apologise for that
:07:07. > :07:09.because that is a clear mistake, it is an error, it is not how
:07:10. > :07:12.the procedure should work. But I certainly think that no
:07:13. > :07:14.Chief Constable would apologise for investigating anybody,
:07:15. > :07:16.if there has been an allegation. How concerned are you by the level
:07:17. > :07:18.of political interference We seem to be adopting
:07:19. > :07:25.the American system. Because it is, it
:07:26. > :07:27.becomes very personal. As Chief Constable I suffered
:07:28. > :07:30.some of that myself, You didn't want to be a celebrity,
:07:31. > :07:38.you didn't want to be a personality. The trouble with it is that that
:07:39. > :07:41.then, we don't see that behind that, Bernard is a very, very
:07:42. > :07:44.professional police officer. If he were to go, the people that
:07:45. > :07:47.would do best out of this would be So I think, you know,
:07:48. > :07:51.this whole notion of becoming more personalised, particularly the way
:07:52. > :07:53.the position of the Commissioner of London, over the past three
:07:54. > :07:55.commissioners has become very personalised and very targeted,
:07:56. > :07:58.I think that is an aspect of the American system
:07:59. > :08:05.which we should not be adopting. It's a case of the
:08:06. > :08:07.establishment biting back? Well, it is, and of course
:08:08. > :08:10.that is part of the danger But of course what has happened now
:08:11. > :08:13.is absolutely it looks like when the suspect was a member
:08:14. > :08:20.of the establishment, as it would be termed,
:08:21. > :08:22.then clearly other members of the establishment come
:08:23. > :08:24.round to protect them. Now I think Lord Bramall is a very
:08:25. > :08:27.distinguished soldier and a great
:08:28. > :08:29.leader, but the trouble is in terms of this difficult issue of trying
:08:30. > :08:34.to get this matter cleared up and particularly to encourage more
:08:35. > :08:39.victims to come forward, clearly it is really,
:08:40. > :08:41.really important that If they see that in a case like this
:08:42. > :08:45.it appears that establishment figures have come behind that,
:08:46. > :08:48.it's going to discourage more people Do you think in cases of historic
:08:49. > :08:53.child abuse there should be a third We certainly need a third way,
:08:54. > :08:56.when such a tiny proportion of victims get justice
:08:57. > :08:59.through the system and yet on the other hand feel
:09:00. > :09:01.hugely wronged and have I think there does need to be some
:09:02. > :09:06.careful consideration of whether there could be another
:09:07. > :09:08.system, possibly closer It would need to be very creative
:09:09. > :09:16.and imaginatively different, but I think that is
:09:17. > :09:18.the problem at the moment. We're trying to force these
:09:19. > :09:21.cases into a court system which was designed in a very
:09:22. > :09:23.different time for different types of cases and it is
:09:24. > :09:29.clearly not working. Nick, there, talking to Sir Peter
:09:30. > :09:34.Fahy. I'm joined now by Gabrielle Shaw,
:09:35. > :09:37.CEO of the National Association for People Abused in Childhood,
:09:38. > :09:47.and Conservative peer and Times A starting point on which I think
:09:48. > :09:52.you will both agree. Do you both agree that a review of police
:09:53. > :09:56.handling of these cases is a good idea? Yes, for reasons of
:09:57. > :10:02.transparency. Abuse happens in secret, cover-ups and accusations
:10:03. > :10:09.happen in secret. For the Met police to say let's have a look at it, it's
:10:10. > :10:14.a good thing. Danny, you wrote a rather excoriating article, you
:10:15. > :10:18.agree a review is due? Yes and I am particularly pleased there will be a
:10:19. > :10:21.review of the processes, not whether or not police followed the processes
:10:22. > :10:25.but whether the processes were correct. I think that's a very
:10:26. > :10:28.important aspect. I'm sure you would say this but I'm sure you would
:10:29. > :10:32.agree that the police would investigate if someone comes in and
:10:33. > :10:37.says there was this abuse and I was a victim of it, in fact they have an
:10:38. > :10:42.obligation to do that. Completely and I would go further. I think
:10:43. > :10:48.there has been a national scandal of under investigating historic child
:10:49. > :10:53.sexual abuse and I think we've realised that. Did the pendulum
:10:54. > :11:00.swing too far the other way? And it became about investigating anybody?
:11:01. > :11:04.Let's look at where the pendulum has come from. We come from a history of
:11:05. > :11:09.massive underreporting and victim survivors hearing failed firstly by
:11:10. > :11:13.being abused and then by their reports are not being believed by
:11:14. > :11:17.the police and the judiciary. As the pendulum swung too far? I think
:11:18. > :11:23.we're still living through it. Many survivors and victims, particularly
:11:24. > :11:26.ones who call the helpline, we hear this all the time, "I still have
:11:27. > :11:30.that fear, I still have that doubt that I'm going to be believed". As
:11:31. > :11:37.long as that is happening at people do not want to come forward, there
:11:38. > :11:40.is work to do. No, I don't think the pendulum has swung too far. I think
:11:41. > :11:44.we're right to be investigating these things. What I'm concerned
:11:45. > :11:50.about is, why did it take ten months for example to ask Lord Bramall's
:11:51. > :11:54.crucial witnesses after it was revealed that he was being
:11:55. > :12:00.investigated? Why did we know that he was being investigated? How did
:12:01. > :12:05.that happen? Not just in his case but Jim Davidson's case and other
:12:06. > :12:08.cases outside that, the question here is not our wee investigating
:12:09. > :12:11.think we should not be investigating, but how are we
:12:12. > :12:16.investigating them and is the right process being used to do that? Do
:12:17. > :12:23.you accept there is an issue there? Around processes? Around the time it
:12:24. > :12:27.takes. Somebody like Lord Bramall is being investigated and nothing seems
:12:28. > :12:31.to happen for month after month. Absolutely, I think it raises really
:12:32. > :12:34.serious questions. Going back to Bernard Hogan-Howe referring it to
:12:35. > :12:39.review, I think that's a very good thing. But it's not helping the
:12:40. > :12:46.victims if there is a long and undue delay. Absolutely. Was common sense
:12:47. > :12:51.being applied? That is the thing we have had to learn about Operation
:12:52. > :12:56.Midland. It fails victims if you spend ?27 million a year, 27
:12:57. > :13:00.officers, ?2 million a year spent on something that ends up showing
:13:01. > :13:06.nothing. We have to ask where the police come whether they became
:13:07. > :13:09.carried away with the idea that the investigation must be correct
:13:10. > :13:14.because they were conducting it and then went on conducting it and said
:13:15. > :13:16.things were true that now looks very questionable. Obviously we don't
:13:17. > :13:21.know what happened but it really does look very questionable. We have
:13:22. > :13:25.to see whether common was applied. Is that an issue? I think Danny has
:13:26. > :13:31.hit the nail on the head, absolutely right. One wider point around this,
:13:32. > :13:35.I think the media firestorm it's fair to say around this has a
:13:36. > :13:40.dangerous side-effect. It tends to narrow the debate down to, it's just
:13:41. > :13:44.a VIP thing, it's just a celebrity thing. The more general point is
:13:45. > :13:49.that most of the abuse of children happens within a family environment,
:13:50. > :13:54.or a wider community environment. That is the failure to recognise
:13:55. > :13:59.that. That is another point of agreement because your piece today,
:14:00. > :14:02.your broader concern that the police are too conscious of public and
:14:03. > :14:08.press opinion when they come to choose what they are doing? I think
:14:09. > :14:13.that's true. I think in normal circumstances, had they had this
:14:14. > :14:19.particular case brought to them, they would not have regarded it as
:14:20. > :14:23.being true and credible. They were carried away, I think we will
:14:24. > :14:31.discover, by the fact that there had been a public furore, and something
:14:32. > :14:43.that to me looks like it did make terribly much sense... That Timmy
:14:44. > :14:48.fails the victims. -- that to me fails the victims. It's not a
:14:49. > :14:51.question of choosing between this investigation and not doing anything
:14:52. > :14:54.about child abuse. It's quite the opposite. We need to leave it there.
:14:55. > :15:00.Thank you very much indeed both. The old saying goes financial
:15:01. > :15:02.markets have predicted nine Well, with everything going on now,
:15:03. > :15:06.should we make that ten? The markets have been
:15:07. > :15:08.gyrating, and gyrating The FTSE is down 9% this year,
:15:09. > :15:12.and we haven't even reached But before you ready yourself
:15:13. > :15:17.for a massacre, and go out and stock up on bottled water or canned goods,
:15:18. > :15:20.you should ask whether the economic So let's have a go at making
:15:21. > :15:27.sense of what's going on. Start big and then
:15:28. > :15:29.we will zoom down. China isn't performing as it was,
:15:30. > :15:34.and that's causing problems Western countries were hoping
:15:35. > :15:37.to sell their wares there, In fact, just this morning
:15:38. > :15:42.manufacturing figures came out for Britain, and they
:15:43. > :15:45.were pretty poor. Output of factories
:15:46. > :15:50.shrinking not growing. Over in the US, the chair
:15:51. > :15:54.of the Federal Reserve admitted today it's all enough
:15:55. > :15:57.to make us wary. As is always the case, the economic
:15:58. > :16:01.outlook is uncertain. Foreign economic
:16:02. > :16:05.developments in particular Now the next thing to worry about,
:16:06. > :16:14.there isn't much ammo in the central That's worrying enough,
:16:15. > :16:21.but then some central banks have resorted to a weird new weapon,
:16:22. > :16:26.negative interest rates. Yup, the central bank
:16:27. > :16:28.says to ordinary banks if you want to keep your
:16:29. > :16:32.cash with us, you pay, I do not think anybody thought
:16:33. > :16:40.genuinely that one of the world's biggest central banks,
:16:41. > :16:42.let alone two, would go This is supposed to be
:16:43. > :16:48.unprecedented, and remember It's become all the fashion as a way
:16:49. > :16:55.of persuading banks not to sit The ECB, Japan and Sweden,
:16:56. > :17:02.among others, are trying it. Which allows us to zoom
:17:03. > :17:06.in to the next level You see, when interest rates
:17:07. > :17:10.are negative, banks That's one reason why their shares
:17:11. > :17:16.are being pummelled right now. The era of banks not meant to be
:17:17. > :17:23.sitting on their money is one Then we can zoom a little
:17:24. > :17:31.further into market fears. Not just banks, one bank
:17:32. > :17:35.in particular, Deutsche Bank. It's not a pipsqueak,
:17:36. > :17:37.and there are concerns it may need to buttress its finances,
:17:38. > :17:41.raise more capital. Its share price is down
:17:42. > :17:45.even more than the rest. Deutsche Bank were already
:17:46. > :17:48.struggling in the good times. They had a high cost
:17:49. > :17:51.base and were really Then you get a downturn,
:17:52. > :17:57.their share price falls and on top It is a toxic mix
:17:58. > :18:04.for a company that was The bank says it's fine,
:18:05. > :18:12.and its share price jumped today, but nobody wants to think of big
:18:13. > :18:15.banks even having to answer With me now are Pippa Malmgren,
:18:16. > :18:22.who was an economic advisor to President George W Bush,
:18:23. > :18:24.and John Bilton, who is Head of Global Multi-Asset Strategy at JP
:18:25. > :18:36.Morgan Asset Management. How worried are you? How worried
:18:37. > :18:42.should you really be as opposed to market worries? Markets are very
:18:43. > :18:48.worried, but it is not only about the issue you have talked about.
:18:49. > :18:52.There are many issues. The Chinese reserves have suddenly collapsed and
:18:53. > :18:57.the IMF says they have fallen to below the level of the safe zone.
:18:58. > :19:01.The country everybody thought was so rich. Saudi Arabia have announced
:19:02. > :19:09.their Macs have to do a dead issue because the oil prices are low and
:19:10. > :19:15.they are saying they may have to sell their crown jewels. Economies
:19:16. > :19:21.are in trouble. This is problematic. The US started raising interest
:19:22. > :19:26.rates and are not going to reverse, which is a positive sign, not
:19:27. > :19:32.negative, but people are nervous about the higher interest rate
:19:33. > :19:36.environment from the US. The markets are famously fragile and will jump
:19:37. > :19:42.at the first thing. How worried should they be? When I calibrate
:19:43. > :19:47.markets I think about the level of growth, whether there is liquidity,
:19:48. > :19:51.and deal risks. One of the things we have at the moment is that most of
:19:52. > :19:55.the major economies are growing but not very much, a couple of percent
:19:56. > :20:01.in the UK and the US and perhaps under that in the eurozone. When we
:20:02. > :20:05.see liquidity being withdrawn, by the central bank or because reserve
:20:06. > :20:14.managers are no longer buying assets and tail risks are picked up... You
:20:15. > :20:19.mean these small things... Exactly, politics, issues in markets like
:20:20. > :20:23.China. Financial markets have to be calibrate and if growth is not
:20:24. > :20:28.strong enough to offset these then markets have to repriced. This is an
:20:29. > :20:33.mike interesting idea. What is going on is there has been a shift. The
:20:34. > :20:40.markets know the prices they had our roll but it is a messy business to
:20:41. > :20:47.get the new prices. China has slowed down. A famous investor back in the
:20:48. > :20:50.day used to say the markets were e-voting machine in the short term
:20:51. > :20:55.and a weighing machine in the long-term. Voting processes are
:20:56. > :21:00.messy. As we begin to weigh the level of growth than the true level
:21:01. > :21:04.of risk and liquidity, and we get support from central banks, who do
:21:05. > :21:09.not want to see that financial system fail, we will see, times
:21:10. > :21:13.ahead but the idea we get some sort of sharp rebound once the market
:21:14. > :21:18.finds its feet is also wide of the mark. This is probably going to be
:21:19. > :21:24.year of some concern but positive growth. Central banks doing stuff,
:21:25. > :21:31.everybody thinks about the fact that the central banks do not really have
:21:32. > :21:38.anything left. No. The central banks have no alternative plan. Someone
:21:39. > :21:42.asked if I thought they had the plan in the first place. This negative
:21:43. > :21:45.interest rate idea which people have a hard time getting their head
:21:46. > :21:50.around. Central banks have no experience of doing it. If I want to
:21:51. > :21:58.give my money to the British government I have to pay the British
:21:59. > :22:04.government. You play borrow money -- pay to borrow money, we did not know
:22:05. > :22:09.you had to pay to save money. Compelled to put your money to work
:22:10. > :22:13.on something like property or the stock market. It is a mechanism for
:22:14. > :22:21.forcing you to take risk you might not otherwise take. But just banks.
:22:22. > :22:26.The onus will be passed on. When I put my money in the bank they charge
:22:27. > :22:35.me. They are going to charge you more. Without a doubt. They have to
:22:36. > :22:43.make the money up somewhere. It has to be already streakers, including
:22:44. > :22:55.the public. How worried should we be? -- all risk takers. If the banks
:22:56. > :22:59.are operating in a low interest environment it is hard for them to
:23:00. > :23:04.make money. Concern over earnings is not surprising. What has come back
:23:05. > :23:08.some of the non-performing loan concerns and places like Italy have
:23:09. > :23:13.been back on table again. The banks are way better capitalised. Are
:23:14. > :23:20.they? I remember people saying that in 2005. Yes, but we were down to 3%
:23:21. > :23:29.and it is into double figures. They are. They conducted a series of
:23:30. > :23:33.stress tests which demonstrated how the banks could and would behave in
:23:34. > :23:37.this kind of environment. The capital structures are safe. Is
:23:38. > :23:44.there anything more to fear than fear itself? That is the problem.
:23:45. > :23:48.Markets are over estimating fear. With the oil price this law people
:23:49. > :23:54.are thinking maybe the value of the investment banks have to be written
:23:55. > :24:00.down and it is the losses that they have not fully considered, to China,
:24:01. > :24:04.to oil, to the tech sector. Things to be gloomy about, but let us not
:24:05. > :24:06.overdo it until we have more information.
:24:07. > :24:11.You may remember the name from the 1980s - a chemical compound
:24:12. > :24:13.that was recognised as dangerous decades ago.
:24:14. > :24:16.In fact the use of PCBs in this country was outlawed in 1981,
:24:17. > :24:19.but it still persists in the environment.
:24:20. > :24:21.Scientists are now warning that they could wipe out Europe's
:24:22. > :24:25.Researchers have held a crisis meeting this week to discuss
:24:26. > :24:31.Our reporter has more, and we should warn those
:24:32. > :24:33.with delicate sensibilities there are some quite graphic
:24:34. > :24:44.Intelligent, formidable hunters, graceful swimmers.
:24:45. > :24:47.Killer whales and dolphins are everyone's favourite
:24:48. > :24:51.marine mammals but in Europe's oceans their numbers have been
:24:52. > :25:07.This is the Zoological Society of London, where scientists have
:25:08. > :25:09.been trying to figure out what has been
:25:10. > :25:13.Whenever you hear up of a cetacean being
:25:14. > :25:18.stranded on the UK coastline the team here become involved.
:25:19. > :25:21.When a marine mammal is found dead a marine
:25:22. > :25:24.investigation gets under way as quickly as possible.
:25:25. > :25:27.Today it is this harbour porpoise that was found washed up
:25:28. > :25:30.on the beach in Devon that is about to undergo its postmortem.
:25:31. > :25:33.Scientists are finding in case after case these animals'
:25:34. > :25:37.bodies are loaded with a toxic chemical that many of us thought
:25:38. > :25:44.PCBs, or polychlorinated biphenyls, were
:25:45. > :25:48.Heralded for their stability, they were used
:25:49. > :25:55.in everything from plastics to paints, lubricants and cement.
:25:56. > :25:58.It was later realised PCBs are toxic,
:25:59. > :26:01.hence a sequence of bans across the world through much
:26:02. > :26:07.Despite this, PCBs have stuck around.
:26:08. > :26:11.Many landfill sites contain the materials that use them
:26:12. > :26:14.and they are leaching into the waterways,
:26:15. > :26:17.working their way into the marine food chain.
:26:18. > :26:20.This is the blubber sample we take which is what
:26:21. > :26:23.we would test for the chemical pollutants.
:26:24. > :26:25.Around Europe, tests are being carried out on over 1000
:26:26. > :26:31.Every single one was contaminated with PCBs.
:26:32. > :26:44.You can see the skin and the blubber, the blubber layer,
:26:45. > :26:46.the PCBs are invisible, the invisible killer,
:26:47. > :26:49.This doctor is one of the researchers in this area.
:26:50. > :26:52.The levels of the PCBs in some species in Europe are the highest
:26:53. > :26:56.If we have very high concentrations then there is a range of toxic
:26:57. > :26:59.effects and probably the one we are most worried
:27:00. > :27:01.about is the suppression of reproduction, that
:27:02. > :27:04.basically the dolphins stop reproducing normally,
:27:05. > :27:06.and we think it is having a devastating effect
:27:07. > :27:13.With samples of the blubber removed for testing they are able to open
:27:14. > :27:24.What we have actually found is that the animal is pregnant
:27:25. > :27:27.Also the cervix is dilated so I can get my
:27:28. > :27:33.hand through so she has obviously recently aborted.
:27:34. > :27:36.There is no foetus in here and it does look as if there
:27:37. > :27:40.This infection proved to be the cause of death for both
:27:41. > :27:45.The doctor believes marine mammals are more susceptible to such
:27:46. > :27:47.infections when they have a high concentration
:27:48. > :27:55.This line is the threshold for what is
:27:56. > :27:59.considered to be tolerable level of PCBs in animals.
:28:00. > :28:03.Harbour porpoises are doing badly enough but look at the levels found
:28:04. > :28:10.It is estimated 1.1 million tonnes of PCB contaminated
:28:11. > :28:18.The darkest areas of red show the parts of Europe with the most
:28:19. > :28:23.PCB laden material yet to be disposed of.
:28:24. > :28:26.We are dealing with a big legacy, but you need to make
:28:27. > :28:30.sure that the marine mammal problem is kept in proportion.
:28:31. > :28:34.We have had PCB problems in other marine
:28:35. > :28:37.mammals in the past, for instance seals in the Baltic.
:28:38. > :28:39.The seal population is now recovering.
:28:40. > :28:42.The PCB problem has not completely gone
:28:43. > :28:44.away but it has been largely dealt with.
:28:45. > :28:51.It takes quite a lot of time to take these PCBs out of the system.
:28:52. > :28:55.PCBs can be cleared to help future generations but it is not easy.
:28:56. > :28:58.One way is incineration of the remaining
:28:59. > :29:01.materials that contain them but to do the job temperatures must
:29:02. > :29:08.If we could get the PCB concentration down now
:29:09. > :29:12.significantly, and that is a big ask, but if we could do that I think
:29:13. > :29:17.these populations would eventually recover, so there is a reason
:29:18. > :29:20.for optimism but if we do not do anything we will slowly lose
:29:21. > :29:23.the last few killer whales and it will
:29:24. > :29:32.be a terrible tragedy, it really will.
:29:33. > :29:35.But, away from the picket lines, negotiations seem to be coming
:29:36. > :29:39.Today, you might have noticed junior doctors have been on strike.
:29:40. > :29:41.But, away from the picket lines, negotiations seem to be coming
:29:42. > :29:44.to an end without the doctors' union and the government having come
:29:45. > :29:49.So ministers may be about to impose new terms and conditions
:29:50. > :29:51.on junior doctors, whether they like it or not.
:29:52. > :30:05.So, Chris, what has actually happened in terms of negotiations?
:30:06. > :30:09.Normally at the end of a striking day or in the middle of one as we
:30:10. > :30:13.are now, you talk about turnout, how has the strike gone? The big thing
:30:14. > :30:17.that has happened today has been an exchange of letters between someone
:30:18. > :30:22.called Sir David Dalton, who is negotiating for the Government, and
:30:23. > :30:26.the leader of the doctors union. The letter makes a number of points that
:30:27. > :30:31.they would like the BMA to accent, tweaks to the contract. The say this
:30:32. > :30:42.is their final offer, if the BMA don't accept it, negotiations are
:30:43. > :30:46.over and the BMA will -- the government will impose a contract on
:30:47. > :30:50.junior doctors. We could get an imposition of a new contract within
:30:51. > :30:56.the next week. Right. So what actually happens then? Do the
:30:57. > :31:00.doctors say OK, we've lost, and go back to work? This is a political
:31:01. > :31:03.game. It is fundamentally a question of whether the BMA thinks that if
:31:04. > :31:07.they continue to strike and fight, and they would have legal right to
:31:08. > :31:11.continue striking over this, they would retain public sympathy and
:31:12. > :31:14.they would be able to cause enough political discomfort for Jeremy Hunt
:31:15. > :31:18.and David Cameron that they will eventually backed down and they will
:31:19. > :31:24.be able to win new concessions. It's quite happy that the Government is
:31:25. > :31:27.happy to let things like this come out and they will put the squeeze
:31:28. > :31:32.on. We may find that tomorrow morning the BMA comes and say three
:31:33. > :31:36.out of four of those points we are quite happy with, is that enough? It
:31:37. > :31:38.certainly looks like it's coming to quite a confrontational head at the
:31:39. > :31:39.moment. "All my life, I had been a liar,
:31:40. > :31:43.a thief and a cheat". The opening words of a new memoir
:31:44. > :31:46.from a man who calls himself Locked up for 20 years for his part
:31:47. > :31:50.in two brutal murders, the book is about childhood,
:31:51. > :31:52.prison and redemption. We'll talk to Mr James in a moment,
:31:53. > :31:55.but first our reporter looks back Erwin James' prison sentence aged 28
:31:56. > :32:03.would perhaps have come as no After his mother died when he was
:32:04. > :32:07.seven and with an absentee, alcoholic and violent father,
:32:08. > :32:12.Erwin had lived a life of crime. In 1982, during a series
:32:13. > :32:14.of robberies and muggings, He fled to Lille and joined
:32:15. > :32:18.the French Foreign Legion. A judge described him as brutal,
:32:19. > :32:24.vicious and callous, and sentenced him to 14 years behind
:32:25. > :32:27.bars, a prison term Erwin was in grim company,
:32:28. > :32:48.as he describes in his book. But two discoveries whilst in prison
:32:49. > :32:53.changed Erwin's life. The first was meeting Joan,
:32:54. > :32:58.a prison psychologist who made him The second discovery
:32:59. > :33:28.was his ability to write, well. And he was commissioned to pen
:33:29. > :33:32.a column on prison life under a pseudonym for the Guardian
:33:33. > :33:34.newspaper, with all In this new book, for which Erwin,
:33:35. > :33:40.controversially for some, will keep the proceeds,
:33:41. > :33:42.he goes further than ever Is this just the latest act of self
:33:43. > :33:48.justification by Or is his frankness to tell
:33:49. > :33:53.all a sign of how rehabilitated An all too rare example
:33:54. > :33:57.of what David Cameron was calling for earlier this week
:33:58. > :34:00.when he visited this Today Erwin takes another step
:34:01. > :34:16.in his public rehabilitation. Good evening, thanks for coming in.
:34:17. > :34:23.20 years for those two murders. Did you think that punishment fit the
:34:24. > :34:27.crime? I mean, that's a question I can't really answer. I took what was
:34:28. > :34:35.coming to me. The judge sentenced me to the mandatory life term, two life
:34:36. > :34:38.terms. Was the punishment enough? A lot of people would say not long
:34:39. > :34:48.enough. A lot of people would say I should have been executed. We are
:34:49. > :34:53.not very forgiving or tolerant. But you're not a bitter? You don't feel
:34:54. > :34:59.you were mistreated? You accept you had done wrong? I knew I deserved to
:35:00. > :35:03.be there. Most people know that. It's what happens when you're in
:35:04. > :35:07.there that is of interest to me. You go into a lot of detail. It's
:35:08. > :35:12.conspicuous that you don't detail the actual crimes. I wonder why you
:35:13. > :35:16.felt you didn't want to put the murders in the book. You don't hide
:35:17. > :35:21.them, obviously the newspaper accounts are there, but it's not
:35:22. > :35:28.something you... I think I've caused enough pain already for people. I
:35:29. > :35:32.think starting to be overly expressionistic about those terrible
:35:33. > :35:36.events would just be too appalling. It's bad enough for some people,
:35:37. > :35:40.it's distressing that I'm actually here talking to you and I've written
:35:41. > :35:44.a book and become a writer. This was never in my plan. When I went to
:35:45. > :35:48.jail, I never had a plan. There was no sense I was going to live again.
:35:49. > :35:54.I'm not going to ask you to detail them but do you remember the murders
:35:55. > :35:59.vividly? Absolutely. Do you feel like you are the same human new word
:36:00. > :36:04.then? You've obviously had an enormous journey since then. I'm the
:36:05. > :36:07.same man but I went into prison without any real character, without
:36:08. > :36:13.any real sense of morality or honesty or integrity, any of that
:36:14. > :36:18.sort of stuff. And I just, it was a journey in their, I mean, it was
:36:19. > :36:26.about survival but it was also a learning experience for me. Prison
:36:27. > :36:31.is a place where, it's a robust place, a precarious place. What
:36:32. > :36:34.there's an army of people working in those prisons trying to help people
:36:35. > :36:39.like I was trying to become better people. It's not about just giving
:36:40. > :36:44.me a better lifestyle but so that we come out and not harmed more people.
:36:45. > :36:48.Redemption is a really interesting topic. As you say, there are a lot
:36:49. > :36:54.of people who would like to see the murderers hanged. I wonder whether
:36:55. > :36:59.you think we just underestimate the capacity for redemption. Did you see
:37:00. > :37:02.people in prison who were unredeemable and some who were
:37:03. > :37:07.redeemable? I was in prison with every type of offender you could
:37:08. > :37:13.imagine. I was among the worst of the worst. For 20 years I lived with
:37:14. > :37:17.every type of offender you can imagine. I'm not a spokesperson or
:37:18. > :37:22.an apologist for prisoners, I'm not a flag waver for prisoners's writes,
:37:23. > :37:27.but the vast majority of people I met in jail had the desire not to be
:37:28. > :37:32.criminals. But the prison experience makes it almost, not impossible but
:37:33. > :37:37.makes it very difficult for people like I was to overcome those
:37:38. > :37:44.obstacles and become more than we were when we went to prison. Do you
:37:45. > :37:48.feel you are accented back? Example, do you tell your neighbours and
:37:49. > :37:52.friends about your background and history? I mean, now you are
:37:53. > :37:58.publishing a book. But I just wonder whether it's something... I don't
:37:59. > :38:05.like to broadcast the worst about myself, Evan. I'm not saying I'm
:38:06. > :38:09.redeemed. I might hope I'm ready double, but I don't say I'm
:38:10. > :38:15.redeemed. -- I might hope I'm redeemable. I live a reasonably
:38:16. > :38:19.law-abiding life, I do the best I can. I'm grateful I live in a
:38:20. > :38:24.society that gives people like me a second chance. I know that often
:38:25. > :38:28.it's begrudging, that second chance. We have a society that gives people
:38:29. > :38:36.a second chance. Your book is under the name Erwin James. Your real name
:38:37. > :38:47.is James Monaghan. My real name is Erwin James Monaghan. Are you living
:38:48. > :38:52.as Erwin James? Do you think of yourself as to people, almost? Not
:38:53. > :38:59.really. I mean, my family, when they hear me called James, they laugh.
:39:00. > :39:07.I've got an uncle Jim and a cousin James. I have always been Erwin, but
:39:08. > :39:11.in prison Erwin was an unusual name, so I became James, I became big Jim
:39:12. > :39:16.in prison, which is quite a nice thing because big Jim was quite a
:39:17. > :39:21.helpful, dependable person. I quite liked that person. Let's talk about
:39:22. > :39:24.prison a bit. You would come out and think of yourself now not as a
:39:25. > :39:29.spokesman for prisoners but as dumping of a prison reformer. You
:39:30. > :39:35.think it can be better come right? I certainly believe that. I try and
:39:36. > :39:39.support charities like the reader Organisation, the writers in prison
:39:40. > :39:43.network. I tried as a board people who try to use prison effectively
:39:44. > :39:49.and creatively and intelligently. -- try to support people. Do people get
:39:50. > :39:55.annoyed that you, who committed a crime, as someone trying to reform
:39:56. > :39:59.prison? Maybe you have to set it up as a way of reducing crime rather
:40:00. > :40:06.than making prisoners's lights better? I'm not a campaign or a
:40:07. > :40:13.reformer, Evan. I'm just a writer. I was born a writer -- I became a
:40:14. > :40:15.writer on prison landing. I support prison reform not to make
:40:16. > :40:22.prisoners's lives better so that they can have a better time. My
:40:23. > :40:32.first ten years I just had a bucket a toilet, a bed. Politicians outside
:40:33. > :40:35.were telling people that I was living in a holiday camp and it
:40:36. > :40:39.would stop. If we want to think about prisons, we have to know about
:40:40. > :40:46.prisoners and the truth about prisoners, so that... Nobody likes a
:40:47. > :40:50.and all but surely we want criminals to come out of prison less harmful
:40:51. > :40:58.and less likely to cause crime. If we don't use our prisons effectively
:40:59. > :41:04.we are letting down future victims of prison levers. That's all we have
:41:05. > :41:05.time for, I'm afraid. Emily will be here tomorrow. Until then, good
:41:06. > :41:07.night.