:00:09. > :00:11.The French threaten to drive out the migrants from their huge encampment
:00:12. > :00:20.at Calais. Where will they go? If other EU countries
:00:21. > :00:22.won't allow these people in, does that mean the European
:00:23. > :00:24.principle of open borders This Conservative former
:00:25. > :00:31.Police Minister says it's all proof As the Rotherham abuse scandal
:00:32. > :00:36.ends in six convictions, are the authorities also
:00:37. > :00:38.guilty of not having taken For the survivors,
:00:39. > :00:41.it's a day of justice. Today is the day that the world
:00:42. > :00:44.knows that they were always We'll ask the prosecutor
:00:45. > :00:53.and the local MP who was at fault. Also tonight, Donald
:00:54. > :00:55.Trump keeps winning. We won with poorly-educated -
:00:56. > :01:05.I love the poorly-educated. Can anything stop him,
:01:06. > :01:07.the ultimate outsider, from capturing the Republican
:01:08. > :01:15.party nomination? And what does American
:01:16. > :01:19.feminist Gloria Steinem make Do you think that Hillary Clinton
:01:20. > :01:24.is in trouble with this nomination? I mean, we are mostly raised
:01:25. > :01:29.by women and we associate And I think that is especially hard
:01:30. > :01:41.for many men. On the one hand, it's just
:01:42. > :01:44.one contest of many - the primaries of the American
:01:45. > :01:46.presidential election On the other hand,
:01:47. > :01:55.it is perhaps the moment. The moment at which all
:01:56. > :01:57.the doubters, all the commentators and, yes, America itself,
:01:58. > :02:00.is starting to accept that Donald Trump may have just landed
:02:01. > :02:05.himself in pole position to be the definitive Republican
:02:06. > :02:15.Presidential nominee. Has he seen off all of his
:02:16. > :02:20.contenders? Not quite but it's becoming increasingly hard to see
:02:21. > :02:23.how it could be anyone but him. Here is Emily Maitlis.
:02:24. > :02:26.He was meant to be the noisy one, the candidate that everyone loved
:02:27. > :02:28.to talk about, that then went quietly
:02:29. > :02:41.We won with poorly-educated - I love the poorly-educated!
:02:42. > :02:43.Nevada makes three wins in a row for Donald Trump,
:02:44. > :02:46.after New Hampshire and South Carolina.
:02:47. > :02:52.He won last night by a margin of 22%, a whopping 45.9%
:02:53. > :02:58.And whilst the Republican establishment have been waiting
:02:59. > :03:01.for him to disappear in a puff of smoke,
:03:02. > :03:04.many are starting to understand he's now looking like he may take
:03:05. > :03:06.the race all the way to the White House.
:03:07. > :03:10.At this point, it will be surprising if anybody but Trump wins more
:03:11. > :03:17.He has a fair to good shot in almost every state that is voting.
:03:18. > :03:20.He is not likely to win them all, but he is likely to win
:03:21. > :03:29.So, Super Tuesday could be the next in his string of victories.
:03:30. > :03:32.In second and third place were Marco Rubio,
:03:33. > :03:34.the Florida senator on 24%, and the Texas senator,
:03:35. > :03:42.This, you see, is where things get confusing.
:03:43. > :03:45.The field may have narrowed, there is no longer a Jeb
:03:46. > :03:50.Bush in the race or a Chris Christie, but their votes don't
:03:51. > :03:58.appear to be going to more a mainstream candidate.
:03:59. > :04:01.They are, in other words, tussling with each other,
:04:02. > :04:06.And, increasingly, it is not just about sentiment or vocal support,
:04:07. > :04:09.it is about the maths and that is where things get tricky.
:04:10. > :04:11.Trump has the lion's share of delegates from the first four
:04:12. > :04:18.On Super Tuesday the 11 states in play will divide those delegates
:04:19. > :04:22.Trump is believed to only be at risk of losing two
:04:23. > :04:27.Super Tuesday states, Arkansas and Texas.
:04:28. > :04:29.With Ted Cruz, that evangelist ideologue leading, if Trump comes
:04:30. > :04:37.If Cruz can't win his home state of Texas,
:04:38. > :04:40.you can pretty much consider it game over for him.
:04:41. > :04:42.Perhaps the curious thing is this: Donald Trump has
:04:43. > :04:44.morphed himself from a political insider, who was cosy
:04:45. > :04:47.with the establishment, into an unofficial defender
:04:48. > :04:56.He tells desperate people what they want to hear,
:04:57. > :05:06.Sadly, we are in a post-factual era, facts don't matter as much
:05:07. > :05:10.You can say pretty much anything you want and if there
:05:11. > :05:11.is a controversy, you create another one
:05:12. > :05:16.It takes someone who really understands the media,
:05:17. > :05:19.and particularly social media, to do what Trump has done.
:05:20. > :05:22.It's amazing and more than a little frightening.
:05:23. > :05:25.As any long-term watcher of the US election cycle will tell you,
:05:26. > :05:29.a candidate doesn't have to believe what they say at this,
:05:30. > :05:32.the primary stage of the race, they have to make sure there is enough
:05:33. > :05:44.room for manoeuvre to take it to the country as a whole.
:05:45. > :05:47.With me now are Ken Adelman, who has served in several Republican
:05:48. > :05:50.administrations and was a close adviser to Ronald Reagan.
:05:51. > :06:02.And Chris Henick who was an adviser to President George W Bush.
:06:03. > :06:08.Ken Adelman, I will start with you. This man has energised a lot of
:06:09. > :06:13.people, he has romped through the primaries, what is not like? What is
:06:14. > :06:17.not to like is what he says. Is not pleasant strain in American history
:06:18. > :06:22.of the know nothing strain, we saw it with Huey Long and George Wallace
:06:23. > :06:26.and we see it from time to time and it appears to all of the worst
:06:27. > :06:34.instincts in the American character. Hate the foreigner, unit, just have
:06:35. > :06:37.a prejudice against individuals. Tell people how much they are
:06:38. > :06:42.suffering and they don't even realise how much they are suffering
:06:43. > :06:45.and it's those stupid people in Washington, the jerks who are
:06:46. > :06:49.selling them down the river. It's kind of a modern version, or a
:06:50. > :06:54.Democratic version, of the stab in the back we saw in World War II,
:06:55. > :06:58.World War I. Chris Henick, presumably you don't
:06:59. > :07:04.buy that? For people on the side of the Atlantic who may have concluded
:07:05. > :07:08.he is a buffoon, what would you say is the substance to the man? Frankly
:07:09. > :07:15.the supposition before yesterday was that Donald Trump had a ceiling of
:07:16. > :07:22.roughly 30, 30 2%, but as your story just said he completely blew through
:07:23. > :07:25.that -- 32%. From my perspective it's less about the candidate and
:07:26. > :07:30.his voters and what they are trying to tell us. If you look at the
:07:31. > :07:34.invisible primary where the dual issue of trade and unfair trade as
:07:35. > :07:38.well as illegal immigration, all of the exit polls show just the
:07:39. > :07:43.opposite. They shared national security, the economy, as well as
:07:44. > :07:48.government spending. All of those were up around 30% in all three
:07:49. > :07:54.states we have had, and immigration is coming in at 10% in South
:07:55. > :08:02.Carolina, 12% in New Hampshire. A lot of this is new. To see exactly
:08:03. > :08:08.what the social and great economic divide is in America right now, its
:08:09. > :08:14.families under $1000 in income, they are trying to send Washington a
:08:15. > :08:18.signal, over six out of ten voters voted for a nonpolitician, so just
:08:19. > :08:22.the opposite is what the Republican primary voters are telling us. Chris
:08:23. > :08:27.Henick, do you think he can have a similarly energising effect on the
:08:28. > :08:32.right to the one that Barack Obama had in terms of getting people to
:08:33. > :08:36.the polls who would not normally go? The only similarity I see right now
:08:37. > :08:41.is how well he is looking in demographics. Blessed are the
:08:42. > :08:45.educated, or whatever, he's going through all of those segmentation is
:08:46. > :08:50.in polling and seeing how well he's doing. Somewhat similar to what
:08:51. > :08:56.Barack Obama did in history election, a demographic and pain and
:08:57. > :08:59.less geographic. For now, from a political science standpoint it's
:09:00. > :09:07.pretty fascinating to see how he is running in the tables. We have a big
:09:08. > :09:13.day next Tuesday, 567 delegates, there is still a sense in Texas,
:09:14. > :09:18.where Texas omitted Ted Cruz is on the ballot and Marco Rubio coming up
:09:19. > :09:22.in Florida on March 15. Both of those candidates want to have a long
:09:23. > :09:28.run with Trump but they are let to have their advantage -- yet to have
:09:29. > :09:32.their advantage. The Republican party has had
:09:33. > :09:37.challenges over the recent years, the tea party and the radicalisation
:09:38. > :09:41.of the party by the tea party. Does Trump mark a new stage in this? Is
:09:42. > :09:45.it still going to be the same party you were serving all the years ago
:09:46. > :09:50.in the White House if this man gets the nomination? Would you still feel
:09:51. > :09:54.proud to call yourself a Republican? I am a Republican but I wouldn't be
:09:55. > :10:00.practical so fake Trump republican and I think he would bust up the
:10:01. > :10:06.Republican party and make it a know nothing party like before. Chris was
:10:07. > :10:11.very good at telling you the issues that are coming up and what people
:10:12. > :10:19.think, but I would make the assertion that Trump's appeal isn't
:10:20. > :10:24.on issues, he doesn't understand any issues, as far as I can tell, except
:10:25. > :10:30.resentment and rage. And emotional outpouring, that those guys are
:10:31. > :10:34.really screwing us, we have to stop them and you don't know how bad you
:10:35. > :10:40.are. You've used the phrase know nothing a couple of times. Do you
:10:41. > :10:44.think in a Trump White House the smart folks would soon get him under
:10:45. > :10:48.control, or do you genuinely worry what it might mean for world peace,
:10:49. > :10:52.or the US economy, to have him in there?
:10:53. > :10:55.I haven't spent ten seconds thinking about that because when you look at
:10:56. > :11:01.the flow of American history over the last 75, 100 years, you realise
:11:02. > :11:05.there are only two elections where an extremist has been nominated. Was
:11:06. > :11:11.1964 with Harry Goldwater on the Republican side and 1968 with George
:11:12. > :11:14.McGavin on the Democratic side. It is very rare to have an extremist
:11:15. > :11:17.nominated. And secondly, is very rare to have an extremist
:11:18. > :11:23.happened in those two macro instances, they got trounced, they
:11:24. > :11:26.got absolutely demolished. Their party, the Republicans in six D4 and
:11:27. > :11:35.Democrats in 68, just got absolutely beat. -- 64. Chris is right when you
:11:36. > :11:42.look at the numbers and all of that, but there will be thousands of
:11:43. > :11:45.people running this year for senators, for governors, state
:11:46. > :11:48.representatives, mayors and older men. With Trump at the top of their
:11:49. > :11:51.ticket they are going to be sunk as well.
:11:52. > :11:54.We await all of those various polls with interest. Ken Adelman and Chris
:11:55. > :11:57.Henick, thank you for joining us. Last year the scale of child sex
:11:58. > :12:00.abuse in Rotherham was starkly laid out in an official report -
:12:01. > :12:03.it found that at least 1,400 children had been
:12:04. > :12:04.abused over 16 years. And the report also found police had
:12:05. > :12:07."regarded many child Well, today, justice began to be
:12:08. > :12:18.served in this sorry tale. In the first trial held
:12:19. > :12:21.since those revelations, a gang of four men and two women,
:12:22. > :12:24.including three brothers, have been convicted of serious child
:12:25. > :12:26.sexual abuse crimes. Alison Holt has been
:12:27. > :12:47.following the trial. Rotherham in South Yorkshire, a town
:12:48. > :12:51.where young lives have been destroyed by sexual exploitation,
:12:52. > :12:55.where families have been torn apart by crimes ignored for too long. Only
:12:56. > :13:03.with today's convictions can the full story begins to be told.
:13:04. > :13:10.Jessica, not her real name, was one of 15 young women who gave evidence
:13:11. > :13:17.at the trial. I first met Ash just after my 14th birthday and I was
:13:18. > :13:21.mentally and physically and sexually abused for two macro years. He was
:13:22. > :13:26.violent towards me, and there were times I thought he was going to kill
:13:27. > :13:31.me. Ash is Hachette is a common who began abusing her in 1999. The court
:13:32. > :13:34.was told he was the leader of a violent criminal gang dealing in
:13:35. > :13:46.drugs and girls and he operated with his brothers. Their uncle was
:13:47. > :13:49.convicted of conspiracy to rape. They were very powerful for a long
:13:50. > :13:57.time. They had connections within the police, within the council, they
:13:58. > :14:00.totally dominated Rotherham. One of the pimping networks being
:14:01. > :14:05.highlighted by this Leeds charity in the early to thousands was the same
:14:06. > :14:11.Phil Mack. The three brothers threatened anyone who got in their
:14:12. > :14:15.way. Threats to the girl, if you don't do what I tell you I will
:14:16. > :14:20.break your mum and burn your house, threats to families have often
:14:21. > :14:23.happened. Our worker who was there had threats against her, they would
:14:24. > :14:28.phone of the family and they would say they know that woman is there
:14:29. > :14:31.again and we have seen her car. The information the parents support
:14:32. > :14:34.worker collected about the men and their associates was passed to the
:14:35. > :14:41.police. She was forever collecting phone numbers, car registration
:14:42. > :14:47.numbers, locations of where things happened. She knew about the use of
:14:48. > :14:53.drugs. And this was recorded, and this was handed over, but actually
:14:54. > :14:59.elicited virtually no response. Local headlines in 2003 showed the
:15:00. > :15:02.brothers had convictions for drugs, violence and intimidation. And
:15:03. > :15:09.documents obtained by the BBC detailed a high risk conference
:15:10. > :15:14.about Asher same two years before that. The probation service said he
:15:15. > :15:16.had been actively involved in befriending and targeting young
:15:17. > :15:22.teenage girls and had possible links to child prostitution in Rotherham.
:15:23. > :15:26.Minutes from a multi-agency meeting described him as representing a high
:15:27. > :15:33.risk of harm to the public. This document describes Ash Hussein is a
:15:34. > :15:36.classic pimping controls young girls and also says the police are making
:15:37. > :15:42.no ongoing checks and that there is no hard evidence of any offence for
:15:43. > :15:47.them to pursue. I think we need to have a catch-up this afternoon. At
:15:48. > :15:51.that time Doug Whiteman and Jayne Senior worked at the risky business
:15:52. > :15:55.youth project in Rotherham. The team was also pulling together
:15:56. > :16:00.information about the sames which was also going to the police. We had
:16:01. > :16:08.been collecting information since 1999. Lots of information. Enough
:16:09. > :16:14.information for them to have been arrested? I believe so, yes. Or at
:16:15. > :16:18.least investigated. A report setting out the links between more than 50
:16:19. > :16:22.girls in Rotherham and the brothers were sent to the police and council
:16:23. > :16:28.in 2002. It was written by Adele Gladman. She was safeguarding issues
:16:29. > :16:32.for a number of years and I don't think I've ever in counted the
:16:33. > :16:37.number of sadism and torture and sheer cruelty that we were
:16:38. > :16:41.encountering. Against children. They were being allowed to do it
:16:42. > :16:43.completely unchallenged summer and I think that definitely gave them a
:16:44. > :16:52.feeling of invincibility. The report was suppressed. Jim
:16:53. > :16:55.Stevens also raised the issue directly with the authorities.
:16:56. > :17:00.Again, there was no real action. For these men to be taken off the
:17:01. > :17:05.streets at last will send out a very, very important message to
:17:06. > :17:12.other potential perpetrators because there was a feeling up until
:17:13. > :17:17.recently that the Hussains and other groups of perpetrators in Rotherham
:17:18. > :17:21.were untouchable. They were raped by multiple perpetrators... In 2014, a
:17:22. > :17:25.report by Professor Alexis Jay estimated more than 1,400 children
:17:26. > :17:30.had been sexually exploited in Rotherham over 16 years. Her report
:17:31. > :17:33.said because gangs like the Hussains were of Pakistani origin and most of
:17:34. > :17:38.the victims were white, the authorities shied away from the
:17:39. > :17:41.issue. Do you think the Pakistani community
:17:42. > :17:45.has a problem? A distant relative of the Hussains
:17:46. > :17:52.thinks straight-talking is what is needed. These sort of men have a
:17:53. > :17:57.very negative and, in many cases, racist attitude towards white young
:17:58. > :18:02.girls. They view them as worthless, they view them as commodities that
:18:03. > :18:07.can be traded and that they can be abused in this abhorrent sort of
:18:08. > :18:10.way. For too long, as a society, as a Pakistani community, we have
:18:11. > :18:14.turned a blind eye to these sorts of crimes. Now across Rotherham,
:18:15. > :18:18.police, the council and local communities say they are working
:18:19. > :18:21.together. There are ongoing investigations into a number of
:18:22. > :18:25.South Yorkshire Police officers, the force says it wouldn't be
:18:26. > :18:28.appropriate to comment on them, but the area's Police and Crime
:18:29. > :18:32.Commissioner believes generally attitudes have changed. That older
:18:33. > :18:37.perception, which is where it all went wrong, that these were young
:18:38. > :18:41.people who were out of control, wouldn't listen to authority, asking
:18:42. > :18:46.for it, slags, slappers, we have heard all that in the past.
:18:47. > :18:50.Hopefully, that is all now gone and the victims now are seen as victims
:18:51. > :18:53.and as children. And today's convictions couldn't be more
:18:54. > :19:01.important for the girls who have survived the abuse and those who
:19:02. > :19:05.have supported them. Everybody needs to recognise the signs of abuse and
:19:06. > :19:13.act on it, and deal with victims in a proper way. These are people's
:19:14. > :19:18.lives. It is a day of justice. Today is the day that the world knows that
:19:19. > :19:24.they were always telling the truth. They are going to be believed, that
:19:25. > :19:28.what they said years ago was happening to them, it happened.
:19:29. > :19:29.That's the message that many in Rotherham needed to help them
:19:30. > :19:33.believe that there is real change. Joining me now is Sarah Champion,
:19:34. > :19:37.MP for Rotherham, and Nazir Afzal, former lead on child sexual abuse
:19:38. > :19:52.and Chief Crown Prosecutor Nazir Afzal, if I could start with
:19:53. > :19:56.you? What is the single biggest lesson that you draw from this case?
:19:57. > :20:02.There are so many lessons. We have lesson that you draw from this case?
:20:03. > :20:05.poor leadership, we have poor processes, we have the active
:20:06. > :20:11.discouragement of children, preventing them from reporting. We
:20:12. > :20:14.have pretty much everybody responsible for safeguarding let
:20:15. > :20:19.them down. That was because of the culture that existed at the time,
:20:20. > :20:21.namely that children who came from troubled or chaotic backgrounds
:20:22. > :20:25.wouldn't be believed, or a jury wouldn't believe them. I recognised
:20:26. > :20:28.that when I dealt with Rochdale. If we didn't act upon the information
:20:29. > :20:32.they provided, they would be subjected to abuse for decades and
:20:33. > :20:36.what we found in Rotherham is that these, this abuse has been going on
:20:37. > :20:41.for 20 or 30 years and people have been turning a blind eye. Was
:20:42. > :20:45.ethnicity a factor in that, can I ask you? I have given evidence to
:20:46. > :20:50.Parliament, I have said it many times, and I will say it again. The
:20:51. > :20:54.ethnicity of the perpetrators is an issue here. As Mohammed said in the
:20:55. > :20:57.report. Many people haven't been talking about it because of
:20:58. > :21:01.political correctness or because they don't want to give the
:21:02. > :21:06.far-right more ammunition. These men were getting away with it because
:21:07. > :21:09.they thought they could, because people were not listening to these
:21:10. > :21:13.young girls when they were talking about the abuse they were suffering.
:21:14. > :21:18.There should be no excuse at all for allowing it to happen. There can be
:21:19. > :21:23.no excuse. The reality is, however, that today there are children being
:21:24. > :21:29.abused up-and-down the country. Sarah Champion, on that point, about
:21:30. > :21:33.the political correctness going mad, how significant a barrier was that,
:21:34. > :21:38.do you think, in getting to grips with the full horror of what had
:21:39. > :21:42.been going on here? For me, I can't comprehend it. These are child
:21:43. > :21:45.abusers, I don't care what colour they are, what race they are. I
:21:46. > :21:50.don't understand why the people who were paid to protect those children
:21:51. > :21:56.didn't see it in that way. I know that both from the two independent
:21:57. > :22:00.reports, the Jay report, and the Casey report, they both said that
:22:01. > :22:04.was a factor. I don't understand in today's society, when children are
:22:05. > :22:10.being abused, why being embarrassed that you might cause someone a
:22:11. > :22:14."Pakistani abuser" rather than a "child abuser" that that is a factor
:22:15. > :22:20.now. We have to address that. Why did it take so long to build
:22:21. > :22:24.prosecutable cases in this matter? I mean, I left the Service when
:22:25. > :22:29.Rotherham was about to get to the point of prosecution. Certainly,
:22:30. > :22:33.Rochdale is a good example. The others I dealt with after Rochdale.
:22:34. > :22:37.It was a view that this was too difficult. These young girls would
:22:38. > :22:41.never be believed by a jury, that they may not even come to court.
:22:42. > :22:47.That was nonsense. It was certainly the prevailing view that it was too
:22:48. > :22:50.difficult, when it was very easy, the legal system, courts,
:22:51. > :22:53.prosecutors, police officers, can do everything they can to make that
:22:54. > :22:58.experience better for the witnesses. We have learnt that now. That wasn't
:22:59. > :23:02.the case before 2011/12. And now we have a situation where I would hope
:23:03. > :23:06.that you will get many more of these successful prosecutions. Certainly,
:23:07. > :23:11.people just seem to think it was too difficult to do and they didn't do
:23:12. > :23:14.it. Successful prosecutions, clearly, send a message. In terms of
:23:15. > :23:19.your community, there are 26 officers who have been served with
:23:20. > :23:24.notice of potential prosecutions, how do you deal with that if you
:23:25. > :23:27.like, the clearing up of what's emerged from this case? Presumably,
:23:28. > :23:31.many of these people still are functioning in the police and other
:23:32. > :23:36.parts of the social services? That's the big problem that we need to
:23:37. > :23:40.address now. (A), how come for so long, for decades, when these girls
:23:41. > :23:43.were desperately trying to get their cases heard were they ignored? How
:23:44. > :23:46.do we now make sure that when people want to come forward, they have
:23:47. > :23:51.trust in the police, they have trust in the council, that they will be
:23:52. > :23:54.listened to. And to be honest, until the IPCC does its investigation,
:23:55. > :23:57.makes its findings and rules for or against some of the officers that
:23:58. > :24:03.are being investigated at the moment, I don't know how people can
:24:04. > :24:07.have that faith, so I urge them to hurry up and let's draw a line under
:24:08. > :24:16.this and move forward. I want to ask you both about moving forward, about
:24:17. > :24:19.the future. Cuts in policing, CPS, do you think this blunts or inhibits
:24:20. > :24:23.the effort to stop this happening again, or is it just not material in
:24:24. > :24:28.this case? Also cuts to local authorities. The services that we
:24:29. > :24:33.are looking forward to get justice and to prevent and protect our most
:24:34. > :24:38.vulnerable are working within a limited resource at the moment.
:24:39. > :24:42.People are having to make choices. They have to protect our most
:24:43. > :24:47.vulnerable. Can I ask you on that, does this show the system worked or
:24:48. > :24:53.is it in jeopardy? The system is working and getting better.
:24:54. > :24:59.Mandatory reporting is essential. I delivered a 30% cut in my budget.
:25:00. > :25:02.The numbers of the prosecutions we were bringing were increasing. You
:25:03. > :25:04.can do it if you work together. Thank you both very much. Back to
:25:05. > :25:06.that migration story. Are the wheels starting
:25:07. > :25:07.to come off Shengen - that agreement of free movement
:25:08. > :25:12.between member states? Tonight, European cohesion
:25:13. > :25:16.is looking increasingly fragile as the various countries within it
:25:17. > :25:19.grapple with how to deal Earlier, Hungary's prime minister
:25:20. > :25:25.offered his country a referendum on whether the EU should be able
:25:26. > :25:31.to impose a migrant quota upon them. In Vienna talks currently
:25:32. > :25:34.were attempting to coordinate border And on the ground, border guards
:25:35. > :25:42.are patrolling the frontier between Belgium and France -
:25:43. > :25:45.an almost forgotten sight Gabriel Gatehouse has been
:25:46. > :25:50.monitoring the developments from Dunkirk to Calais and joins us
:25:51. > :26:03.live from there now. There were extraordinary scenes at
:26:04. > :26:09.the borders of Europe today and in capitals, in Greece, on the
:26:10. > :26:12.Greek-Macedonian border, we saw migrants holding babies, blocking
:26:13. > :26:16.motorways, demanding access to Central Europe. The Greek Migration
:26:17. > :26:22.Minister said there was a mini humanitarian crisis going on in his
:26:23. > :26:26.country. The Austrians unilaterally deciding to restrict migration
:26:27. > :26:30.heavily along with some of their Balkan neighbours, at a meeting to
:26:31. > :26:34.which Greece wasn't even invited, the country that is struggling under
:26:35. > :26:37.the largest number of migrants. Austria and Germany trading
:26:38. > :26:42.accusations and now here, on the north-west corner of Europe, we have
:26:43. > :26:46.got the Belgians patrolling their border with France. The border isn't
:26:47. > :26:51.closed but this certainly isn't Schengen. Mark, the bonds that hold
:26:52. > :26:56.Europe together are being strained by this issue of migration. Quickly,
:26:57. > :27:00.you have been among the people in the camps for the past couple of
:27:01. > :27:04.days, do they think they will be imminently pushed out of there? What
:27:05. > :27:09.is their mood? They do. We can see them flitting across the road here
:27:10. > :27:12.as I speak, police behind me, shining flash lights into the
:27:13. > :27:16.bushes, the French are saying seek asylum here, go to registered asylum
:27:17. > :27:21.centres. They don't want to do that. They are looking for impromptu
:27:22. > :27:23.settlements, and there is another one near Dunkirk, another Jungle, if
:27:24. > :27:44.you like, and I spent the day there. If you thought the Calais Jungle
:27:45. > :27:49.looked grim, try this. This site is on the outskirts of Dunkirk. People
:27:50. > :27:57.live here, thousands of them. And soon, there could be many more. 25
:27:58. > :28:00.miles down the coast from here, the residents of the Jungle are waiting
:28:01. > :28:06.for a magistrate to decide their fate. It seems likely that that camp
:28:07. > :28:13.will eventually be bulldozed. And then what? Quite a lot - in October
:28:14. > :28:21.of last year, there were 400 people on the site. There are now something
:28:22. > :28:25.in the region of 3,000. I don't know what happened in court
:28:26. > :28:30.yesterday. No decision.
:28:31. > :28:37.There was no decision. It will probably come in next 48
:28:38. > :28:42.hours. When it does, we don't know where people expect such a large
:28:43. > :28:47.number of refugees to go. At the moment, all of those people share 42
:28:48. > :28:51.toilets between them. That is about one toilet for every 70 people.
:28:52. > :28:58.Toilets that often malfunction, sewage seeping out into the mud.
:28:59. > :29:06.No good. No good, yeah. Somebody else put it to me a little earlier,
:29:07. > :29:11.they said compared to this place, Calais looks like a Butlin's holiday
:29:12. > :29:14.camp. The reality is, that when the Jungle getting closed, most of those
:29:15. > :29:21.people will probably end up here, or places like this.
:29:22. > :29:25.Amid the squalor, there is a spirit of resilience, a new Dunkirk spirit,
:29:26. > :29:29.you might call it, minus, of course, the one crucial element - the
:29:30. > :29:33.flotilla of boats to take people across the Channel.
:29:34. > :29:38.As any parent knows, getting your kids to put their shoes on can be a
:29:39. > :29:52.struggle. But when your home is a tiny patch of tent, floating on a
:29:53. > :29:56.sea of mud, well... These girls' father used to be a policeman in
:29:57. > :30:01.northern Iraq. We are looking for a normal life. I think England is
:30:02. > :30:07.good. People there respect you. For me, it is too late. I'm about
:30:08. > :30:15.38-years-old, but I am looking for a life for my children. What about
:30:16. > :30:16.trance? -- France? France, you see. There is nothing here. That is life.
:30:17. > :30:26.Nothing. Ali is an Iraqi Kurdistan under
:30:27. > :30:30.Saddam Hussein he fled to the UK but after the invasion Ali went back
:30:31. > :30:34.home full of hope for the future. It's a decision he bitterly regrets
:30:35. > :30:42.now as his country tears itself apart. How are you going to get to
:30:43. > :30:48.England? With two small children? You have to go and try. Your hide
:30:49. > :30:54.the children in the truck? I tried to or three times but the ship
:30:55. > :31:00.control arrested me. It is not dangerous? It is too dangerous, it
:31:01. > :31:08.is dangerous. Are you worried for your daughters? Like I told you in
:31:09. > :31:15.the sea when we came to the place from Turkey you see people die.
:31:16. > :31:19.Maybe you will die, maybe you will not die, but if you stay in your
:31:20. > :31:25.country you will die, that is why you run, to have the chance. A short
:31:26. > :31:28.drive up the coast lies Belgium. In anticipation of more people on the
:31:29. > :31:33.move Brussels has introduced controls on the French border. The
:31:34. > :31:40.police are checking trucks and vans, any migrants are sent back to
:31:41. > :31:45.France. This may not look like much of a border post, but the fact that
:31:46. > :31:49.these guys are here at all tells you something, and that is that when it
:31:50. > :31:55.comes to the issues of migrants and refugees it's not co-operation
:31:56. > :31:59.that's at the forefront everyone's mind in Europe, it's every country
:32:00. > :32:03.for its self. The medical charity MSF are building a new mud free camp
:32:04. > :32:08.just up the road, where they hope to rehouse most of the residents of the
:32:09. > :32:13.Dunkirk Swamp but there will not be room for the overspill from a
:32:14. > :32:17.bulldozed Jungle. The police are trying to discourage any further
:32:18. > :32:22.expansion of the makeshift camp at Grande-Synthe. Anyone coming in is
:32:23. > :32:26.searched, building materials are confiscated, but they are fighting a
:32:27. > :32:31.losing battle. The network of volunteers who run this camp know
:32:32. > :32:34.what is coming and so they are preparing, using branches and
:32:35. > :32:39.pallets and cable ties, whatever they can get their hands on. This is
:32:40. > :32:45.probably not what the developers had in mind when they advertised their
:32:46. > :32:50.eco-quarter. It is certainly not what Europe's leaders in Visic when
:32:51. > :32:54.they signed the Schengen agreement. Gabriel Gatehouse in the Jungle. --
:32:55. > :32:57.envisaged. Joining me now is Damian Green,
:32:58. > :32:59.former Minister of State for Immigration and Minister
:33:00. > :33:05.for Policing, Criminal Justice Very well qualified to discuss the
:33:06. > :33:10.Jungle issue. You have the Conservative Party actively talking
:33:11. > :33:15.about the end of ever closer union as a theoretical proposition, at its
:33:16. > :33:20.ending as we watch in reality across Europe. Ever closer union was a
:33:21. > :33:23.thrust towards a United States of Europe which Britain never signed up
:33:24. > :33:29.to and explicitly thanks to David Cameron is now out of. There is
:33:30. > :33:35.clearly a crisis in the Schengen system, and the ability of other
:33:36. > :33:38.countries, we have never joined it, we are an island and we've always
:33:39. > :33:42.wanted to have border posts so we have control of our own borders and
:33:43. > :33:51.others didn't. There are clearly risks in that. The fact of this
:33:52. > :33:55.unprecedented refugee crisis, unprecedented since the Second World
:33:56. > :33:59.War, has put on the strains you have seen in those films. Everybody is
:34:00. > :34:03.going their own way, the Austrians hosted a meeting saying they will
:34:04. > :34:06.put a cap on the number of asylum seekers they will take and knock on
:34:07. > :34:10.down the line to Greece which people are talking about sealing off. This
:34:11. > :34:14.is everyone in Europe going their own way, the subsidiarity of the
:34:15. > :34:18.most muscular and unpredicted kind, isn't it? And not in an organised
:34:19. > :34:24.way. The problem is the countries inside Schengen haven't been able to
:34:25. > :34:28.agree a strategy on this. To some extent, and it's not easy it is
:34:29. > :34:32.difficult to blame people when they are faced with, as I say, this
:34:33. > :34:36.unprecedented crisis. But I think more of them should frankly have
:34:37. > :34:42.taken a lead from Britain, where our policy has been to pour money into
:34:43. > :34:45.the areas immediately around Syria, the countries immediately around
:34:46. > :34:51.Syria, and actually try and make conditions as good as possible there
:34:52. > :34:57.so that people don't feel compelled to make this very dangerous sea
:34:58. > :35:02.journey, that may end up in Belgium or France. One other aspect in this
:35:03. > :35:06.in the way that Britain and the referendum does or does not
:35:07. > :35:10.interlock with this is the question of contagion. People in Brussels
:35:11. > :35:14.have talked about this for the past year or two. They are concerned that
:35:15. > :35:18.other countries if Britain had a referendum would in some way see
:35:19. > :35:21.this as a starting gun. Lo and behold today we have Viktor Orban,
:35:22. > :35:25.the Hungarian Prime Minister, saying they are going to have a referendum
:35:26. > :35:28.on whether or not to take quotas in their country and other countries,
:35:29. > :35:34.even the Netherlands are talking about it possible more widely drawn
:35:35. > :35:38.agenda. It is having an effect, the British example, across Europe.
:35:39. > :35:46.Having a referendum on a specific policy area is not at all and are
:35:47. > :35:51.just. But the Dutch. I don't think the Dutch government is talking
:35:52. > :35:59.about it yet. I think the root of it needs to be that people who are in
:36:00. > :36:03.the Schengen system doesn't include us if they want to survive they will
:36:04. > :36:06.have to act collectively and if not they will invoke emergency measures
:36:07. > :36:11.in many countries and it will probably be suspended. The big Read
:36:12. > :36:17.a cross for us is what is happening in the camps that we saw and it
:36:18. > :36:21.seems to me because we have border controls in Calais, our border is
:36:22. > :36:25.much better protected than it would be if we had our border back in
:36:26. > :36:30.Dover, which it was only 15 years ago. There is no given that we have
:36:31. > :36:34.border controls in Calais. In that context do you agree with the Prime
:36:35. > :36:38.Minister when he said would find thousands of people potentially
:36:39. > :36:43.coming overnight if Britain to leave? Or was that just
:36:44. > :36:48.scaremongering? We could do, we signed the treaty with France as two
:36:49. > :36:52.member states of the European Union, two friendly countries that work
:36:53. > :36:55.together very well in northern France in trying to control this
:36:56. > :36:58.very difficult situation, particularly people trying to get on
:36:59. > :37:03.trucks. We spend money on security and so on. Who benefits most from
:37:04. > :37:07.that? We do. The French ambassador was on this programme is bad Wedge
:37:08. > :37:13.was asked what France gets from this she struggled to say what the
:37:14. > :37:16.benefits were for France. It seems they would be enormous pressure on
:37:17. > :37:19.France if Britain pulled out of the European Union to say, you know
:37:20. > :37:23.what, if the Brits want to get out of Europe they can have their own
:37:24. > :37:26.border controls back. A lot of those people would find it easier to get
:37:27. > :37:27.to Britain if we didn't have border controls in
:37:28. > :37:32.to Britain if we didn't have border get a Dover and they would have the
:37:33. > :37:35.right to claim asylum here. Damian Green, thank you. One thing
:37:36. > :37:39.is for sure the question of border controls and the future of Schengen
:37:40. > :37:41.is bound to be with us for months to come.
:37:42. > :37:44.You're a feminist or a masochist - so says Gloria Steinem,
:37:45. > :37:46.one of the most influential - and outspoken - feminists over
:37:47. > :37:57.She's never shied away from controversy, dedicating her
:37:58. > :38:00.most recent book, My Life On The Road to the man
:38:01. > :38:06.of 22, allowing her to live a life of activism.
:38:07. > :38:10.Emily Maitlis sat down to talk to her.
:38:11. > :38:17.Do you think when you step back the feminist movement is in good health?
:38:18. > :38:21.Yes, it is in good health. For instance, to speak for my country it
:38:22. > :38:22.is a major IT movement, it is no longer 20 crazy ladies, which is
:38:23. > :38:24.what we were. In the beginning
:38:25. > :38:27.we were regarded as very odd. Now all of the fundamental issues,
:38:28. > :38:29.of equality, including reproductive issues,
:38:30. > :38:40.are majority issues. And that's true in many, if not
:38:41. > :38:43.most, countries. And we are a global movement. We are very connected with
:38:44. > :38:51.each other across boundaries. How do you critique
:38:52. > :39:00.of modern feminism now? When you look at the, if you like,
:39:01. > :39:05.the new role models, is Beyonce a good role
:39:06. > :39:07.model for young women? She's a fine role model for anybody.
:39:08. > :39:11.She's a fine role model for me. It's about supporting
:39:12. > :39:14.each other in what we do best and what our dreams are,
:39:15. > :39:17.and how we feel about women It's not about sitting around
:39:18. > :39:20.and criticising who is a proper Does it become, therefore,
:39:21. > :39:25.harder for you to criticise women because you think that
:39:26. > :39:29.that is a betrayal of feminism? No, it's perfectly easy
:39:30. > :39:31.for me to say Sarah Margaret Thatcher
:39:32. > :39:37.was a disaster. You know, people were
:39:38. > :39:46.still putting milk at her funeral because she cut off
:39:47. > :39:48.the milk for children. The point is not to get
:39:49. > :39:51.a job for one woman, it's to make life
:39:52. > :39:53.better for women and And when you look at, for example,
:39:54. > :40:02.choosing a presidential nominee, does that strike
:40:03. > :40:04.you as something that should be Of course it's a feminist issue,
:40:05. > :40:09.regardless of who it is. If they were Martians it
:40:10. > :40:12.would be a feminist issue, because it depends
:40:13. > :40:14.on their position on issues. Do you think that
:40:15. > :40:16.Hillary Clinton is in Probably.
:40:17. > :40:21.It's deep. We're mostly raised
:40:22. > :40:23.by women and we associate And I think that is
:40:24. > :40:30.especially hard for many men who feel regressed
:40:31. > :40:39.when they see a powerful woman. They haven't seen
:40:40. > :40:40.one since they were So, there is a lot of deep
:40:41. > :40:47.feeling that it's just not right somehow, that it's
:40:48. > :40:50.against the feminine-masculine emotional because we are
:40:51. > :41:00.associated with childhood. Hillary Clinton has undergone
:41:01. > :41:07.more concentrated hatred on campus when she ran for President
:41:08. > :41:10.before there were young white men wearing T-shirts that said "Too bad
:41:11. > :41:13.OJ didn't marry Hillary." But we've seen recently
:41:14. > :41:19.the older feminists getting into trouble, Germaine Greer
:41:20. > :41:23.on the transgender question. Can a man who undergoes a biological
:41:24. > :41:25.change ever really call And her sense that actually
:41:26. > :41:33.it was about cultural conditioning Where do you stand
:41:34. > :41:39.on the whole issue? If you want to define yourself
:41:40. > :41:43.and I want to define myself we have to let other
:41:44. > :41:46.people define themselves. It is just clear that
:41:47. > :41:49.we have to do that. So, Caitlyn Jenner,
:41:50. > :41:51.to all intents and purposes, She is able to define
:41:52. > :41:59.herself, just as I am. It's not a simple
:42:00. > :42:03.question for onlookers. For instance, we had a well
:42:04. > :42:06.reported case of a woman, a very accomplished woman,
:42:07. > :42:08.who considered herself to be Because she had African-American
:42:09. > :42:27.siblings, I think, and had been living as an African-American
:42:28. > :42:30.and growing up, and there was a lot of discomfort around that
:42:31. > :42:33.on the part of African-Americans. So I can understand
:42:34. > :42:35.there is discomfort, but the rock bottom
:42:36. > :42:48.is we have to accept Evan's here tomorrow -
:42:49. > :42:53.until then, goodnight.