:00:00. > :00:07.Is this the moment that chaos turns to order in Europe,
:00:08. > :00:16.as the EU conscripts Turkey into its attempt to control migrants
:00:17. > :00:25.Turkey's just a stone's throw away. It's not hard to understand the
:00:26. > :00:28.sense of vulnerability that Greeks feel, a sense of exposure.
:00:29. > :00:33.and we'll ask this Turkish politician whether Turkey and the EU
:00:34. > :00:36.are now friends for real or for convenience.
:00:37. > :00:39.Also tonight, Maria Sharapova admits taking a performance-enhancing drug
:00:40. > :00:55.I made a huge mistake. I've let my fans down. I've let this sport down,
:00:56. > :01:00.that I've been playing since the age of four, that I love so deeply.
:01:01. > :01:02.Also tonight: To mark the death of the man who invented it,
:01:03. > :01:06.we look at the rise and fall of e-mail.
:01:07. > :01:14.If you are a middle to senior manager, you end up at the end of
:01:15. > :01:17.the day with hundreds of e-mails and then, there's a likelihood that
:01:18. > :01:23.you've missed a really important one.
:01:24. > :01:27.After months of muddle, the European Union tried to get
:01:28. > :01:30.a grip on its migrant problem today, in some serious talks with Turkey.
:01:31. > :01:36.The EU wants Turkey to hold onto migrants outside the EU,
:01:37. > :01:39.rather than let them cross over to Greece and the chaos there.
:01:40. > :01:42.But there's a price - Turkey has spotted an opportunity
:01:43. > :01:45.to get some favours in return - billions of euros, visa-free travel
:01:46. > :01:48.to the EU for its citizens, renewed talk of EU membership,
:01:49. > :01:54.and perhaps discretion over an unseemly clampdown on press
:01:55. > :02:00.Before we get into the complex politics of this negotiation,
:02:01. > :02:08.Turkey is right now coping with 3.1 million refugees.
:02:09. > :02:17.They are arriving there at a rate of some 3,000 every
:02:18. > :02:22.Hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees are in camps,
:02:23. > :02:25.but the vast majority - 90% - are not, as these pictures
:02:26. > :02:30.Bear in mind, Turkey has more to deal with than the rest
:02:31. > :02:35.Like the British with Calais, the EU wants to keep the migrants
:02:36. > :02:42.Turkey is asking for money to help provide for its migrants.
:02:43. > :02:51.With this new proposal, our objective is to rescue the lives of
:02:52. > :02:58.the refugees, to discourage those who want to misuse and exploit the
:02:59. > :03:05.desperate situation of the refugees, meaning human smugglers. To fight
:03:06. > :03:11.against human smugglers, and to have a new era in Turkish-EU relations.
:03:12. > :03:13.For those stuck in Turkey, though, the EU is a sunlit upland.
:03:14. > :03:16.About 1,500 leave for the EU each day, about half are Syrian.
:03:17. > :03:19.The main route to get to the West, the Balkan route, takes migrants
:03:20. > :03:22.to Greece by boat, then onwards and upwards through some combination
:03:23. > :03:24.of Macedonia, Serbia, then into the EU over the Hungarian
:03:25. > :03:30.These routes are becoming restricted, although other potential
:03:31. > :03:37.The Lithuanian president tweeted today that "migrants move faster
:03:38. > :03:46.So is there a deal that can regulate the stocks and flows of people
:03:47. > :03:48.in manageable numbers, and better provide for those
:03:49. > :03:55.That's the goal, but you have to remember the EU is not a thing.
:03:56. > :03:58.It is a multinational network of things with
:03:59. > :04:04.Gabriel Gatehouse has been following migrant routes around
:04:05. > :04:10.Europe, and he's back from travelling with me now.
:04:11. > :04:15.Gabriel, let's just start with these fairly extraordinary talks, very
:04:16. > :04:19.broad talks with Turkey today. They've been talking. They're still
:04:20. > :04:22.talking. We have some suggestion of what a deal might consist of.
:04:23. > :04:28.There's a draft proposal on the table. The nub of it is that Turkey
:04:29. > :04:32.will stop the crossings, behinder the people traffickers and take back
:04:33. > :04:39.refugees and migrants from Greece in return for a lot of money. The Turks
:04:40. > :04:44.are asking for 6 billion euros. The sceptics would say they were offered
:04:45. > :04:47.three billion late last year and the migrant crossings didn't decrease.
:04:48. > :04:51.They want accelerated accession talks to the EU and visa-free
:04:52. > :04:58.travel. The most controversial bit of the whole thing is one-for-one
:04:59. > :05:03.proposal. If Nato ships or Greek coastguard find a boat in the Aegean
:05:04. > :05:10.sea with 50 people aboard, ten of which are Syrians, all of those
:05:11. > :05:14.people will be sent back to Turkey. But the EU in return will take ten
:05:15. > :05:18.different Syrians in Turkey and resettle them. This is the
:05:19. > :05:24.controversy holding up talks. You need then some settle for resettling
:05:25. > :05:30.them in Europe. That takes us to the intra-EU battle, not between the EU
:05:31. > :05:36.and Turkey, but how the EU will cope. There are only two countries
:05:37. > :05:39.in the EU who want a quota system for resettlement, that's Germany and
:05:40. > :05:43.Greece. David Cameron said tonight that Britain wouldn't take part as a
:05:44. > :05:50.rock-solid opt out. Other countries who don't have that opt out are
:05:51. > :05:54.opposed. Hungary and other eastern European nations, Austria for one.
:05:55. > :05:58.What we have is this problem that the EU cannot agree on where the
:05:59. > :06:03.migrants should go. That is holding up the talks. Inside Greece it's
:06:04. > :06:08.filling up. The borders are blocked. I've been on the island of Lesbos,
:06:09. > :06:09.right in the east, near the Turkish border, where many of the refugees
:06:10. > :06:15.have been arriving. If you're looking for visual
:06:16. > :06:18.metaphors, there's no shortage Each new boat that crashes ashore
:06:19. > :06:26.threatens to sink any attempt Today they focused on trying
:06:27. > :06:32.to reduce the number of migrants But the journey across the water is,
:06:33. > :06:40.in some places, as little No-one expects the flow
:06:41. > :06:46.to stop any time soon. And so mainland Europe
:06:47. > :06:49.is fortifying its borders, building walls and fences
:06:50. > :06:54.to keep the migrants out. Greece, meanwhile, fears
:06:55. > :06:58.it is turning from tourist destination to refugee camp,
:06:59. > :07:02.becoming a giant holding centre Out here on these eastern islands,
:07:03. > :07:09.with Turkey almost a stone's throw away, it's not hard to understand
:07:10. > :07:13.the sense of vulnerability that Greeks feel - a sense of exposure,
:07:14. > :07:16.of being out on a limb, right on the edge of
:07:17. > :07:20.the European Union. More than 2,000 migrants reached
:07:21. > :07:23.Greece this morning. They will make their way
:07:24. > :07:32.to Athens, but what then? As long as they route onwards
:07:33. > :07:35.towards northern Europe remains The Coast Guard is out on patrol
:07:36. > :07:41.here nearly every day. The EU and Nato want
:07:42. > :07:44.Turkey to take back those For now, Greek policy is to rescue
:07:45. > :07:54.any migrants they find in their territorial waters
:07:55. > :07:57.and bring them back to Greece. There is little faith in Turkish
:07:58. > :08:00.promises to help stem No matter what they say in Brussels,
:08:01. > :08:27.the refugees and migrants will not And even if they did,
:08:28. > :08:34.that wouldn't solve the wider problem of what to do with those
:08:35. > :08:37.who are already in Greece - Here and in Germany,
:08:38. > :08:42.they want other member states to take a larger
:08:43. > :08:44.share of the burden. But in the rest of the EU,
:08:45. > :08:48.there's little appetite Lesbos has a population
:08:49. > :09:21.of a little over 85,000. In the midst of the financial
:09:22. > :09:26.crisis, you might expect anger from the locals on an island
:09:27. > :09:30.that relies largely But we found little
:09:31. > :09:35.evidence of that. We saw local people barbecuing
:09:36. > :09:40.meat and feeding it, for free, to slightly
:09:41. > :09:44.bemused migrants. But this has all meant a radical
:09:45. > :09:49.rethink of their economic model. So you have just changed
:09:50. > :10:09.your business model? From Turkish tourists,
:10:10. > :10:24.now it has become like Syrian You know what, we make money, but it
:10:25. > :10:28.hurts us. We don't want to make money with these people.
:10:29. > :10:35.They left their families, but we have to work to survive.
:10:36. > :10:37.We are making money, but it doesn't make us happy.
:10:38. > :10:40.It is an odd thing, but here on the front line
:10:41. > :10:43.of the most acute refugee crisis since the Second World War,
:10:44. > :10:45.there is little of the angst you see elsewhere in Europe.
:10:46. > :10:48.As the leaders in Brussels hold make-or-break talks about the future
:10:49. > :10:52.of Shengon, and Nato deploys ships to the Aegean,
:10:53. > :11:04.on Lesbos they are just getting on with life.
:11:05. > :11:11.A sense that whatever obstacles are thrown in their path,
:11:12. > :11:15.the refugees and migrants will keep on coming.
:11:16. > :11:23.Apart from the Greeks, the Germans are most keen
:11:24. > :11:29.They made a commitment to refugees and want to stick to it,
:11:30. > :11:32.but without helping the entire world at the same time.
:11:33. > :11:38.Earlier tonight, I spoke to a German minister, Jens Spahn,
:11:39. > :11:44.I started by asking him if a deal at the summit today would be enough
:11:45. > :11:55.Well, this agreement with Turkey is an important element, a key element
:11:56. > :11:59.actually, to get a sustainable solution for the migrant crisis,
:12:00. > :12:03.especially when it comes to the Aegean sea. As soon as it is
:12:04. > :12:07.understood, don't pay the mugler, don't go on this dangerous journey,
:12:08. > :12:16.just over the sea, because you will be brought back any way.
:12:17. > :12:19.But first of all, we need to end this irregular migration
:12:20. > :12:21.and that is what the talks are about.
:12:22. > :12:26.if Greece and Turkey and the whole European Union are working together.
:12:27. > :12:28.Just to be clear, you are still requiring, aren't you,
:12:29. > :12:32.a quota system for the EU to act, to take some migrants from Turkey,
:12:33. > :12:37.some refugees from Turkey, and settle them in the EU?
:12:38. > :12:40.To take some who are now trapped in Greece, who may not get
:12:41. > :12:45.And take them and settle them in the EU.
:12:46. > :12:47.You need a quota system for Europe to work?
:12:48. > :12:50.First of all, we are talking with Turkey now, and that is part
:12:51. > :12:53.of the agreement, to help Turkey to deal with the refugees
:12:54. > :12:55.and the migrants within Turkey itself,
:12:56. > :12:57.to help them for the shelter, for the food.
:12:58. > :13:01.Second step would be to take some of these,
:13:02. > :13:04.especially by the way, women and children, not just young
:13:05. > :13:08.men, as it is right now coming via the West Balkan route,
:13:09. > :13:11.but I really do think that as soon as we have regained the control
:13:12. > :13:15.of our border, we might get more support for distribution in Europe.
:13:16. > :13:24.One thing Turkey would like is to join the EU,
:13:25. > :13:30.wonder whether you think it's faintly imaginable
:13:31. > :13:32.in the foreseeable future that the EU could think about taking
:13:33. > :13:34.Turkey as a member, is that going to happen?
:13:35. > :13:38.I don't see Turkey within the EU within the next, I don't know,
:13:39. > :13:42.That's going to take longer and it's going to be a long
:13:43. > :13:47.And Turkey has to change, obviously, some things to join the EU.
:13:48. > :13:51.But the truth is the EU has no interest really in helping Turkey.
:13:52. > :13:55.It's really just about getting Turkey to enforce
:13:56. > :14:00.I mean, Turkey has taken around three million refugees
:14:01. > :14:09.So far, we haven't helped Turkey at all, perhaps we should
:14:10. > :14:14.Have started earlier. That is something we should ask ourselves,
:14:15. > :14:16.why we haven't realised that Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon as well, are
:14:17. > :14:23.doing so much to support refugees. And so we really should help them,
:14:24. > :14:29.and the three billion that Turkey gets in the first step is for
:14:30. > :14:32.projects for the refugees in the To what extent in Germany
:14:33. > :14:36.is there a sense that Germany has created part of this problem,
:14:37. > :14:39.at least it didn't cause the problem, but created perhaps
:14:40. > :14:42.part of it by giving a signal that Germany was so willing to accept
:14:43. > :14:45.almost anyone that wanted to come What we all did underestimate,
:14:46. > :14:49.I think, is the digitalisation Because pictures from Germany,
:14:50. > :14:54.I see now in the smallest They see how we received
:14:55. > :15:10.the refugees in the summer, that there were many
:15:11. > :15:12.people to help them. And that made more and more people
:15:13. > :15:15.start making the journey. And now we have to send the ominous
:15:16. > :15:18.sign that we do want to have refugees from Syria and Iraq,
:15:19. > :15:21.but we can't help everyone that's hoping for a
:15:22. > :15:27.better life in Europe. Tharchlts sign needs to be sented at
:15:28. > :15:31.the European border. That's what we're talking about.
:15:32. > :15:33.Do you think today is the point at which the migrant
:15:34. > :15:36.crisis turned from chaos to some kind of order?
:15:37. > :15:38.Today, that is an important key element for this,
:15:39. > :15:40.and an agreement with Turkey is not the whole solution,
:15:41. > :15:43.but it is an important step to find a common
:15:44. > :15:50.Now, negotiating inside the EU may be annoying, but it's particularly
:15:51. > :15:52.complicated when you bring Turkey into the room.
:15:53. > :15:57.The country has been trying to get into the EU since 1987,
:15:58. > :15:59.but its size, its level of development and, more recently,
:16:00. > :16:01.the slim commitment of its government to the values
:16:02. > :16:04.of freedom and democracy has made it all very difficult.
:16:05. > :16:09.It's not helped by the trials of people who are guilty only
:16:10. > :16:14.This week, an unfortunate juxtaposition: we want
:16:15. > :16:16.a favour from Turkey, just as the largest-circulation
:16:17. > :16:20.newspaper has been put under control of trustees at the order of a court,
:16:21. > :16:27.more or less turning it from anti-government to pro.
:16:28. > :16:34.The editor of that newspaper told us what that episode represents.
:16:35. > :16:37.A tragic day for media and for Zaman and for our staff
:16:38. > :16:43.Because it was a big raid, with tear gas and lots of police
:16:44. > :16:50.and it was a very sad day for freedom of expression in Turkey.
:16:51. > :16:55.But it was not something unexpected because as the newspaper,
:16:56. > :17:01.we had previous three similar raids in just two years and when you look
:17:02. > :17:06.at what is happening in Turkey, these days, last week two TV
:17:07. > :17:21.If you're critical of government policies or Erdogan's policies,
:17:22. > :17:35.And unfortunately Turkey's ranking in democracy and in EU orientation
:17:36. > :17:50.And that leads Turkey into an authoritarian
:17:51. > :17:55.And the level of critique is not enough to change the situation
:17:56. > :18:04.So this is saddening, especially with regard to the EU.
:18:05. > :18:08.Yes, there are a lot of critics and the suppression of freedom
:18:09. > :18:11.of media, but it is not at a level that could change the
:18:12. > :18:20.So I was expecting that the Democratic friends of Turkey
:18:21. > :18:23.to do more to support not the journalists,
:18:24. > :18:32.but to support Turkish democracy and the Turkish people.
:18:33. > :18:35.So I guess there's a lack of understanding in terms of some
:18:36. > :18:39.of our international friends, our European friends,
:18:40. > :18:47.that democracy is not seen as important as Syrian refugees.
:18:48. > :18:49.The refugee problem is very important.
:18:50. > :18:57.But the freedom of media and democracy is as important,
:18:58. > :19:00.as strategic as that, as crucial as that.
:19:01. > :19:05.So if you leave Turkey to an authoritarian tendency,
:19:06. > :19:08.in this way, that is the risk of ending up making Turkey and other
:19:09. > :19:24.And this is a very important risk for the stability of the country.
:19:25. > :19:26.I'm joined down the line from Ankara by Ravza Kavaci,
:19:27. > :19:29.an MP and member of the Central Decision Executive Committee
:19:30. > :19:42.Thank you for joining us. It is much later in Turkey that it is here.
:19:43. > :19:47.Just start with this newspaper, Zaman at what happened there. You
:19:48. > :19:50.embarrassed by the fact that a major newspaper, the main selling
:19:51. > :19:56.newspaper, has been taken over by the authorities in your country?
:19:57. > :20:10.Actually there is nothing to be embarrassed about because this was a
:20:11. > :20:15.part of the ongoing case, it was not something against the newspaper, it
:20:16. > :20:24.was an ongoing case that had allegations of tax evasion, fraud
:20:25. > :20:31.and insider trading. And someone is one part of the company that is
:20:32. > :20:39.being alleged, alleged and investigated on these matters. That
:20:40. > :20:42.is why it is an ongoing case and because they are under
:20:43. > :20:49.investigation, it just happens to be a media company, and it is being
:20:50. > :20:52.investigated by the government. It just so happens that the editorials
:20:53. > :20:57.over the weekend or more pro-government ban on Friday. There
:20:58. > :21:04.are many cases, almost 2000, people put on trial or intimidated for the
:21:05. > :21:10.offence of insulting the president. It is just so foreign to us to have
:21:11. > :21:21.a crime like that, a guy lost his job as a doctor for comparing the
:21:22. > :21:29.president to Gollum. Is that now normal in Turkey? No, if it is
:21:30. > :21:32.against the law, if someone swears at the president, that is the case
:21:33. > :21:37.in many countries, he has the right to take them to court just like
:21:38. > :21:41.ordinary citizens, like we do. And in Turkey Digi Giaccherini is of
:21:42. > :21:52.course separate, there is a separation of powers. -- the
:21:53. > :21:57.judiciary is separate. Turkey is much bigger than it was ten years
:21:58. > :22:01.ago, 15 years ago, so there will be more cases and people are able to
:22:02. > :22:07.swear and insult whoever they wish. But it is also the people who get
:22:08. > :22:09.insulted have the right to take these people who tried to
:22:10. > :22:16.assassinate their characters to court. Like they do in Europe. I'm
:22:17. > :22:19.all in favour of respecting other cultures but your Prime Minister
:22:20. > :22:23.said today in Brussels Turkey is ready to be a member of the EU.
:22:24. > :22:27.There are very few people the EU who will look at what your president has
:22:28. > :22:32.done, banning Twitter for while, trying to put people on trial for
:22:33. > :22:38.insulting him. Just as was the case in Europe. Do you acknowledge that
:22:39. > :22:46.Turkey is 1 million miles from being ready to join the EU? Turkey has
:22:47. > :22:53.been on the way to EU membership since 1964. Bulgaria got in, many
:22:54. > :23:00.European countries got in. And Turkey underwent, took over the EU
:23:01. > :23:05.harmonisation process, whether relations with the EU work will not.
:23:06. > :23:16.So Turkey has gone a long way. And I do not think that there's anything
:23:17. > :23:21.wrong with EU membership process. I think when we talk about European
:23:22. > :23:28.values, what we were just talking about right before the Zaman case on
:23:29. > :23:34.TV, came on TV, we were talking about the refugee crisis. When we
:23:35. > :23:41.talk about European values I think first, human rights, the right to
:23:42. > :23:46.live. The gentleman from Zaman was comparing democracy with human life,
:23:47. > :23:52.I respect his opinions but when people are being killed in Syria,
:23:53. > :23:58.and when the whole world is doing almost nothing and Turkey has been
:23:59. > :24:05.hosting all these people, you cannot compare, there's importance of
:24:06. > :24:12.democracy when there is no life. I hear what you're saying. Very
:24:13. > :24:15.briefly, after this deal, does the behaviour of Turkey change with
:24:16. > :24:26.regards to how it enforces the border with Greece, the GMC? -- the
:24:27. > :24:30.agency # it will not change, it will continue. Turkey is trying to
:24:31. > :24:37.discourage people from taking to the sea and we are saddened by all the
:24:38. > :24:43.lives that are lost in Syria and all the lives that are lost after who
:24:44. > :24:49.are trying to go into Europe, hoping for a better life. Turkey has been
:24:50. > :24:55.hosting almost 3 million people, you said that on your news. So we are
:24:56. > :24:57.doing our best. We're out time, thank you so much.
:24:58. > :25:00.Not long before we went on air this evening,
:25:01. > :25:02.the tennis superstar Maria Sharapova - former women's world number one,
:25:03. > :25:05.now number seven - admitted to having taken a banned
:25:06. > :25:14.She was taking it for a decade when it was not prohibited,
:25:15. > :25:18.but it became illegal this year, and she didn't realise
:25:19. > :25:20.that what she was taking had been put on the banned list.
:25:21. > :25:25.She gave the news herself at a press conference in Los Angeles.
:25:26. > :25:32.And I have let my fans down, I have let the sport down,
:25:33. > :25:35.that I have been playing since the age of four,
:25:36. > :25:45.I know that with this, I face consequences and I don't
:25:46. > :25:52.And I really hope that I will be given
:25:53. > :26:13.I'm joined now by Matthew Syed, a journalist. That is a big name to be
:26:14. > :26:19.caught up in a drug test, Maria Sharapova. She's not the greatest
:26:20. > :26:22.tennis player of all-time, not as good as Serena Williams, or some of
:26:23. > :26:27.the giants that came before but in commercial terms and exposure times
:26:28. > :26:30.she's the biggest female athlete probably of all time. She is topped
:26:31. > :26:35.the Forbes list of highest earning female sportswomen for the past 11
:26:36. > :26:39.years and one of the reasons for this is she's very sophisticated in
:26:40. > :26:44.how she harnessed and exploited her brand. A whole range of product. A
:26:45. > :26:49.whole lot, some sugar candy and stuff. Everything. Ironic given that
:26:50. > :26:54.she says she was taking the drug for diabetes. Let's talk about this
:26:55. > :26:58.drug, it became illegal on the 1st of January this year. Is this
:26:59. > :27:04.happening all the time, they bring in new things and said it is now
:27:05. > :27:08.illegal. It is an arms race between athletes and chemists who want to
:27:09. > :27:11.subvert the rules with highly sophisticated substances that are
:27:12. > :27:16.either currently not banned or currently undetectable. And the
:27:17. > :27:21.world and it up in authority which is trying to catch the sheet the --
:27:22. > :27:32.these cheats. So every year a new list of substances is announced by
:27:33. > :27:37.Wada. They said there were suspicious of it but clearly she
:27:38. > :27:41.made a mistake. Even if she's not taking it for medical reason but
:27:42. > :27:45.performance enhancing reasons, it was still had been in Heron interest
:27:46. > :27:49.to stop taking it in January. She was taking it for medical reasons,
:27:50. > :27:54.is at the case that many people were taking the drug for medical reasons
:27:55. > :28:00.and really where they put aside, particular cases, is it medical or
:28:01. > :28:06.performance enhancing? Rather a lot of athletes seem to have had a
:28:07. > :28:10.medical condition who needed a drug but not many people who were not
:28:11. > :28:13.athletes needed to use it. So there is the pattern, not just Maria
:28:14. > :28:19.Sharapova, but the Russian ice dancer admitted to having taken this
:28:20. > :28:25.drug and been banned also today. A series of distance runners, so it
:28:26. > :28:28.may have had an effect on endurance. I looked at some pharmacological
:28:29. > :28:33.effects and there is a suspicion that it boosts endurance. How easy
:28:34. > :28:36.is it to make a mistake, you get an e-mail from Wada saying this drug is
:28:37. > :28:42.now illegal, I think she said she did not take on the thing, it had a
:28:43. > :28:47.couple of names. Is it easy basically to take something and not
:28:48. > :28:50.realise it has been put on a banned list maybe there should be a couple
:28:51. > :28:54.of weeks of grace or something because she was caught pretty soon
:28:55. > :28:59.after the ban. The list is huge and it is difficult to keep track. As a
:29:00. > :29:03.journalist it is easy to take responsibility is on the athlete. It
:29:04. > :29:08.was a terrible mistake. I was an athlete and it is difficult to keep
:29:09. > :29:12.up. The fact that she has a team around, that she took the substance
:29:13. > :29:21.and she not warned by her team, you must issue she did not know. --
:29:22. > :29:24.assume. However given the prevalence of this, but so many have been
:29:25. > :29:30.caught in this way, you would expect someone of her stature to have
:29:31. > :29:33.noticed. Is she going to get the book thrown at her, because she has
:29:34. > :29:39.had a lot of injuries, not to get at get out of jail card. I think the
:29:40. > :29:42.biggest thing for her, a few years ago she gave a press conference and
:29:43. > :29:47.said she wanted to take hold of her brand. The first sportsman to
:29:48. > :29:51.exploit his band was Michael Jordan who transformed the national
:29:52. > :29:55.celebrity endorsement. It is a massive feature of modern
:29:56. > :29:58.capitalism. Maria Sharapova did the same thing and now her fight is not
:29:59. > :30:02.necessary in tennis but for hearts and minds. More than anyone else,
:30:03. > :30:04.she does not want her brand to be solid and image destroyed. Thank
:30:05. > :30:07.you. more, Everybody can more, remember
:30:08. > :30:09.who invented the telephone, but not so many know
:30:10. > :30:11.the name Ray Tomlinson - the man credited with inventing
:30:12. > :30:14.e-mail, who died on Saturday. What he created was a huge advance,
:30:15. > :30:18.not least in that it's hard to think of what that @ sign
:30:19. > :30:20.was for until he conscripted it But telephone voice calls
:30:21. > :30:25.are in decline, and the evidence is that e-mail is past its prime
:30:26. > :30:27.too, as Ray Tomlinson's Dear e-mail, I'm not saying
:30:28. > :30:43.we haven't had our moments, but I'm afraid I just
:30:44. > :30:50.don't love you any more. Ray Tomlinson's invention
:30:51. > :30:53.was clearly brilliant, # I'm a slave to work...
:30:54. > :31:08.# For today's office workers,
:31:09. > :31:12.e-mail is not all good. Is it a blessing or a
:31:13. > :31:15.curse, do you think? I think we are overloaded with
:31:16. > :31:20.e-mail, both at work and socially. If it's used efficiently
:31:21. > :31:22.and correctly, actually managed and controlled, it's a huge
:31:23. > :31:24.blessing, obviously. But the way it is, it's out
:31:25. > :31:27.of control at the moment. You get e-mails even if you're sat
:31:28. > :31:31.next to the person at the moment. So it's quite difficult
:31:32. > :31:32.to manage it. One of the worst cultures is where
:31:33. > :31:35.people are continually in meetings. Their teams and the people they work
:31:36. > :31:41.with have no other way to communicate with them, and so,
:31:42. > :31:47.if you are a middle to senior manager, you end up at the end
:31:48. > :31:53.of the day with hundreds of e-mails and then there's a likelihood that
:31:54. > :31:56.you've missed a very important one. We have made it all
:31:57. > :31:59.things to all men. We have made it a tool to manage
:32:00. > :32:02.with, which it's not. The best form of management
:32:03. > :32:06.is still to walk and talk. It can sometimes feel that you're
:32:07. > :32:11.sat at the bottom of a vast pit It's a sort of crowd source to-do
:32:12. > :32:22.list, created by people who don't necessarily share your objectives
:32:23. > :32:26.or much value your time. Imagine the internal e-mails
:32:27. > :32:30.that the 100,000 employees The company has had enough
:32:31. > :32:35.and is moving to a business Facebook at work will help us drive
:32:36. > :32:40.a more collaborative, distributed, nonhierarchical culture
:32:41. > :32:43.across our organisation in ways that traditional tools, such
:32:44. > :32:46.as e-mail, simply can't. I think when we think about e-mail,
:32:47. > :32:49.we often find it's used It is hierarchical, it's a one-way
:32:50. > :32:54.flow of information. And we believe that Facebook
:32:55. > :32:57.would work will enable us to do something very different, in ways
:32:58. > :33:00.that will benefit our customers. In fact, more and more companies
:33:01. > :33:03.are moving to alternate platforms like Slack - now worth
:33:04. > :33:07.an estimated $5 billion. E-mail, says Slack's CEO,
:33:08. > :33:11.has two huge drawbacks. One is that no matter
:33:12. > :33:15.who you are in the organisation, no matter your rank or title,
:33:16. > :33:18.you have this very narrow slice of all communication that is
:33:19. > :33:22.available to you and everything else And when that person
:33:23. > :33:30.leaves, it's gone. The second problem is
:33:31. > :33:32.when you arrive on your first day at work, at an organisation
:33:33. > :33:35.where the primary means of communication is e-mail,
:33:36. > :33:38.you have access to nothing. There might have been millions,
:33:39. > :33:40.or tens of millions, or even hundreds of millions
:33:41. > :33:42.of messages exchanged before With Slack, you create channels
:33:43. > :33:46.for communication for separate Employees can opt into the ones that
:33:47. > :33:52.are useful to them and ignore There is not less stuff,
:33:53. > :33:56.but your relationship Rather than someone adding it
:33:57. > :34:01.to your e-mail, which effectively makes it an item on your to-do list,
:34:02. > :34:04.that you either have to archive it or delete it or respond to it,
:34:05. > :34:07.they just have the conversation with the people who are involved
:34:08. > :34:10.in it and who can check-in. So you get access to much more
:34:11. > :34:13.information without it being something that
:34:14. > :34:14.you need to deal with. Take ownership of messages
:34:15. > :34:16.with Core's revolutionary message Your super-sensitive, secret e-mail
:34:17. > :34:23.could be forwarded anywhere. Core is a new collaborative
:34:24. > :34:26.platform, launched just last month, that allows companies to control
:34:27. > :34:29.who can see information and even So if you look at history,
:34:30. > :34:35.in all cases, we've lost control We put a note on a carrier pigeon,
:34:36. > :34:41.or we put a letter in a mailbox, We don't know and we can't control
:34:42. > :34:49.what the recipient does with it. And in many cases,
:34:50. > :34:51.that's a massive risk. That could be intellectual property
:34:52. > :34:53.- that could be pricing, that could be strategy -
:34:54. > :34:56.it is information that you may not want somebody else to forward
:34:57. > :34:59.to another organisation. You may not want them
:35:00. > :35:02.to save an attachment and reuse it E-mail, of course, won't disappear,
:35:03. > :35:08.just as paper mail still exists. But the future probably belongs
:35:09. > :35:11.to smarter communications, powered perhaps by
:35:12. > :35:15.artificial intelligence. We need to realise that
:35:16. > :35:17.what was supposed to liberate us, Office workers of the world unite,
:35:18. > :35:23.you have nothing to lose Business people are in demand
:35:24. > :35:33.like never before in Both sides want endorsements
:35:34. > :35:38.of their point of view. And journalists want to interview
:35:39. > :35:41.big business names to ask that most penetrating question:
:35:42. > :35:44."Are you in or out?" Well, we're joined now
:35:45. > :35:47.by a big business name. Inga Beale is chief executive
:35:48. > :35:49.of Lloyds of London, She's been in that job
:35:50. > :35:55.for over two years. She's getting ready to speak
:35:56. > :35:57.to the Women of the Work Festival at the South Bank in London
:35:58. > :36:07.tomorrow, which is International We will talk about that in a
:36:08. > :36:12.moment... Women of the world. I've read it wrong. Women of the world.
:36:13. > :36:18.We'll talk about that. First Brexit. You're an inner, correct? Yes
:36:19. > :36:22.Lloyds, we're very much an inner. Lloyds is a big, global business. We
:36:23. > :36:27.write business from all over the world. The European market is very,
:36:28. > :36:32.very important for us. Currently being part of the EU means we have
:36:33. > :36:39.trading rights in all of the EU countries. That means access to the
:36:40. > :36:44.world's largest insurance market with over 500 million customers.
:36:45. > :36:48.It's very important for Lloyds to be able to be part of that market. This
:36:49. > :36:54.has become a familiar refrain that you need to be in the single market.
:36:55. > :37:02.I just want to be clear, though, if we left the EU, could you not remain
:37:03. > :37:06.in that 500 million-person market? With insurance it's a highly
:37:07. > :37:12.regulated market. It means we have to get licenses in all of those
:37:13. > :37:15.individual countries or be able to negotiate with the EU as a block.
:37:16. > :37:17.That means a lot of uncertainty. There is no guarantee
:37:18. > :37:21.That means a lot of uncertainty. able to negotiate trading rights
:37:22. > :37:26.that we have right now. We're not kidding anyone that it's unlikely to
:37:27. > :37:30.be a smooth, as it currently is. The Swiss are not in the EU. They've got
:37:31. > :37:37.a very big, powerful insurance industry. How can they do it? They
:37:38. > :37:42.have EU-based subsidiaries. That's how they write... Isn't that what we
:37:43. > :37:46.would do? Lloyds is quite special. We're actually a market. We're made
:37:47. > :37:52.up of 59 individual small businesses. So it's not just as easy
:37:53. > :37:56.for us to go and set up one subsidiary. I just want to ask you
:37:57. > :38:04.another one, this is an important issue. Does the EU in any way stop
:38:05. > :38:08.you exporting your services to the United States or China, India or
:38:09. > :38:12.Brazil? The EU enhances that because the EU, because of the trading
:38:13. > :38:16.block, because it's a big block, once it's all together, it has
:38:17. > :38:19.trading agreements with 55 different other markets around the world. We
:38:20. > :38:24.benefit from being part of that. This is important, you're basically
:38:25. > :38:27.saying the right to leave the EU and then sign our own deal with the US
:38:28. > :38:31.would be worse than staying in the EU? The US have actually stated they
:38:32. > :38:35.don't want to have all sorts of individual trade agreements.
:38:36. > :38:41.Currently we feel that we're much better off with the EU negotiating
:38:42. > :38:44.with the US. What do you think of Boris Johnson, he's your champion
:38:45. > :38:47.and taking the opposite view. I won't comment on other people's
:38:48. > :38:53.views. I can give you a view from the Lloyds perspective. It's
:38:54. > :38:58.international women's day in about 45 minutes. It starts tomorrow. The
:38:59. > :39:02.role of women in business, I mean you've written a lot about this and
:39:03. > :39:05.had quite a long and illustrious career. It's improved over the
:39:06. > :39:10.years? Oh, I think it's improved dramatically. When I started working
:39:11. > :39:14.in the 80s, there was hardly a female role model around. In fact,
:39:15. > :39:24.just to touch on that women of the world festival, this was really was
:39:25. > :39:30.Jude Kellie's idea. There were no female role models. We see many more
:39:31. > :39:33.now. Are you a believer in quotas, prep women on boards? It's
:39:34. > :39:37.interesting because I benefitted from being part of a pro-active
:39:38. > :39:41.talent management programme many years ago. I worked for a global, US
:39:42. > :39:46.firm. They had a pro-active talent management. They set targets for
:39:47. > :39:49.females, targets for ethnic minorities. I didn't know it at the
:39:50. > :39:54.time, but I benefitted dramatically from that. You were a quota and you
:39:55. > :40:00.didn't realise. And I didn't realise. A secret quota. I knew when
:40:01. > :40:05.I got more senior. Why don't you do it at Lloyds? We do have some
:40:06. > :40:12.targets set. One of the issues when you mention boards is that we're
:40:13. > :40:15.governed by a council. That's an elected body. Of course, they tend
:40:16. > :40:19.to reflect the Lloyds market. But we're making improvements. So the
:40:20. > :40:24.Lloyds market, we've got 59 individual businesses in there,
:40:25. > :40:31.three of them are now run by women. Yes or no to quotas? That is where
:40:32. > :40:35.the debate is to some extent. You are basically in favour of them? It
:40:36. > :40:41.drives some action. I think that's what we want to see. I know I'm in
:40:42. > :40:44.good company with people like Christine Legarde. What about
:40:45. > :40:48.primary school teachers, they're mainly women. Should we have quotas
:40:49. > :40:53.in primary schools. It's important to have diversity for the kids?
:40:54. > :40:58.Right, so, I was at the world World Economic Forum earlier this year. I
:40:59. > :41:02.had the privilege to meet the Luxembourg prime minister. He
:41:03. > :41:06.informed me of what they do, a nice, neutral country, neutral image. They
:41:07. > :41:12.wanted to make sure that there was parity in their political parties.
:41:13. > :41:20.They introduced 40% minimum women and 40% minimum men. So no bias
:41:21. > :41:22.towards either gender. I thought, well, what a wonderful solution.
:41:23. > :41:28.Thank you for coming in. Thank you. Emily will be here tomorrow, until
:41:29. > :41:35.then, good night.