:00:13. > :00:15.Extraordinary defiance in a Russian court.
:00:16. > :00:18.We bring you the story of that Ukrainian pilot,
:00:19. > :00:20.why she's on trial in Russia, and what it says about
:00:21. > :00:25.the unfinished conflict between Russia and Ukraine.
:00:26. > :00:44.Also tonight - Inside Mexico's ghastly kidnap industry.
:00:45. > :00:46.Remember how we used to argue about parents,
:00:47. > :00:59.Supposing for one reason or another, she prefers not
:01:00. > :01:02.to discuss it with you, but to discuss it with a doctor?
:01:03. > :01:04.And she's underage, and she's in great danger?
:01:05. > :01:07.Would you expect him to consult you about it?
:01:08. > :01:09.Well, something big has happened there.
:01:10. > :01:19.We will get a lesson on the music of Sir George Martin
:01:20. > :01:33.and just how big a difference he made to the Beatles.
:01:34. > :01:38.With so much going on in the world, you might be forgiven
:01:39. > :01:43.It is not over, but it is less intense than it was.
:01:44. > :01:46.Rather than the continual fighting of 2014, it has settled
:01:47. > :01:50.into a stalemate of sporadic skirmishes.
:01:51. > :01:52.Ukraine functions as an almost complete country,
:01:53. > :01:55.but a section in the east has hived itself off and is controlled
:01:56. > :02:03.Crimea has been formally annexed by Russia.
:02:04. > :02:05.Now right now the animosity between the two countries,
:02:06. > :02:07.is playing out through one particular case,
:02:08. > :02:12.a young Ukrainian pilot, Nadia Savchencko.
:02:13. > :02:15.Captured in 2014 by separatist forces, she now finds herself
:02:16. > :02:17.on trial in a small Russian town, for allegedly killing
:02:18. > :02:28.The case was one already picked up by European and American
:02:29. > :02:30.politicians, but it took a dramatic turn in court today.
:02:31. > :02:38.Gabriel Gatehouse has the whole story.
:02:39. > :02:48.This case contains flash photography.
:02:49. > :02:52.This is a story about a forgotten war, a war which has been pushed out
:02:53. > :02:54.of the headlines by other seemingly more pressing crises.
:02:55. > :02:57.But it hasn't gone away, and now, all the festering tensions of this
:02:58. > :02:59.frozen conflict have been focused on one woman.
:03:00. > :03:02.Through the bars of her cage in a Russian courtroom,
:03:03. > :03:05.Nadia Savchenko has become a rallying point
:03:06. > :03:10.for Ukrainians who accuse Russia of invading their countries.
:03:11. > :03:13.Today, the 34-year-old Ukrainian Air Force pilot
:03:14. > :04:06.on the system that will soon pronounce its verdict on her.
:04:07. > :04:09.On the 17th of June 2014, two Russian journalists
:04:10. > :04:12.were killed when they came under mortar fire
:04:13. > :04:15.during fighting between the Ukrainian military
:04:16. > :04:22.Savchenko was captured by the separatists.
:04:23. > :04:43.The case hinges on what time it took place.
:04:44. > :04:46.She is accused of being a spotter on the ground, of directing
:04:47. > :04:47.the mortar fire that killed the journalists.
:04:48. > :05:19.Nadia Savchenko is Ukraine's most prominent female officer.
:05:20. > :05:22.Here she is in a promotional film produced by
:05:23. > :05:28.She says the separatists who captured her, handed her over
:05:29. > :05:31.to Russian special forces, who then took her across the border.
:05:32. > :05:34.The purpose of the operation, her lawyers say, was to portray
:05:35. > :06:02.Moscow says Savchenko crossed into Russia
:06:03. > :06:07.The government has reacted angrily to calls
:06:08. > :06:32.for her release from senior US and EU officials.
:06:33. > :06:36.In Kiev this afternoon, they gathered to protest
:06:37. > :06:42.Here, Nadia Savchenko has become a national symbol of defiance.
:06:43. > :06:44.Outside the courthouse in Russia, Savchenko's mother
:06:45. > :07:08.When it comes, there will be little doubt about the verdict,
:07:09. > :07:12.and the sentence is likely to be a lengthy one.
:07:13. > :07:17.But this case is about much more than the fate of one woman now.
:07:18. > :07:20.Nadia Savchenko has become the embodiment of a conflict
:07:21. > :07:29.Joining me now in the studio is Marina Pesenti,
:07:30. > :07:32.director of the Ukrainian Institute in London, and from Moscow -
:07:33. > :07:49.Marina, I will start with you, because it is hard to overstate how
:07:50. > :07:56.important the case is seen in Ukraine, and what high regard Nadia
:07:57. > :08:02.Savchenko 's health? Absolutely. It is a very symbolic and high-profile
:08:03. > :08:10.case in Ukraine. There is a mixture of feelings. On one hand, it is a
:08:11. > :08:15.sense of admiration, of the courage and determination and fearlessness
:08:16. > :08:21.she has displayed, being in a very difficult situation with all the
:08:22. > :08:25.odds stacked against her. She managed to turn the tables. On the
:08:26. > :08:29.other hand, there is a feeling of indignation. The fact that the
:08:30. > :08:34.Russian Federation, apart from the fact it has annexed part of our
:08:35. > :08:38.territory and unleashed a war in another part, it also kidnaps our
:08:39. > :08:46.citizens and brings charges against them, on their territory on very
:08:47. > :08:53.trumped up charges in fact. Was she known before she was captured? No,
:08:54. > :08:57.she did not have a public profile. She was in Iraq, she had been
:08:58. > :09:04.fighting, I think she was the only woman in the Ukrainian air force so
:09:05. > :09:08.she was a notable character? Probably she was better known in the
:09:09. > :09:13.military because she is a female pilot and she is from the
:09:14. > :09:26.prestigious aviation school and she also fought in Iraq but previously,
:09:27. > :09:36.she did not have a public profile. Catty -- Katya can you tell us what
:09:37. > :09:40.the Russian perspective is? Two Russian journalists died in Ukraine
:09:41. > :09:45.two years ago when they came under shelling while filming a report
:09:46. > :09:50.about the plight of refugees, and interestingly enough, this case has
:09:51. > :09:54.attracted a lot of attention in the Western media and among Western
:09:55. > :09:57.politicians, but while there is widespread criticism of the trial
:09:58. > :10:02.itself, there is very little condemnation of the killing of the
:10:03. > :10:11.two Russian journalists in fact. Even the BBC headline article on
:10:12. > :10:14.that... I just wanted to say that 95% of that article was devoted to
:10:15. > :10:19.the trial and what Nadia Savchenko had to say in her final speech,
:10:20. > :10:23.whereas there were just three lines about how those journalists actually
:10:24. > :10:28.got killed, which was in broad daylight and they were on duty when
:10:29. > :10:34.they came under shelling. Does it matter to you whether Nadia
:10:35. > :10:39.Savchenko was involved in that, Marina, would you have any regrets
:10:40. > :10:45.over the killing of the Russian journalists? I certainly have
:10:46. > :10:49.regrets over the loss of any life but I find it paradoxical that
:10:50. > :10:53.Russia thinks it is a completely legitimate course of action, where
:10:54. > :10:56.it kidnaps a citizen of another country, and brings charges against
:10:57. > :11:03.that citizen in its own country, and we talk about what has happened, if
:11:04. > :11:08.we for a split-second imagine that the charges are fair, and that it is
:11:09. > :11:11.a crime committed by one Ukrainian citizen against other Ukrainian
:11:12. > :11:16.citizens, apart from Russian journalists there were some
:11:17. > :11:20.civilians. Russia claims it does not conduct any warfare against Ukraine,
:11:21. > :11:28.it stands for territorial integrity of Ukraine, and on the other hand,
:11:29. > :11:32.it conducts a trial of Ukrainian citizens on its territory. I dead
:11:33. > :11:38.want to go through the trial but I want to talk about relationships
:11:39. > :11:49.between Ukraine and Russia. Katya, as far as you are concerned, is the
:11:50. > :11:55.war between the two countries over? Well, before I get to explain that,
:11:56. > :11:58.I would like to reply to Marina. I just wonder whether Marina is as
:11:59. > :12:02.critical of United States that considers it perfectly normal to
:12:03. > :12:11.capture foreign citizens like they did with two Russian citizens whom
:12:12. > :12:16.the US considers criminals and just those two guys were captured on
:12:17. > :12:20.foreign soil while in Thailand and Africa and extradited to the US.
:12:21. > :12:26.There were put on trial in the US and one was imprisoned just because
:12:27. > :12:31.they are both Russian citizens, and the US did that despite Russia's
:12:32. > :12:37.objection. That, as far as the procedure is concerned, when you say
:12:38. > :12:42.it is totally unlawful for Nadia Savchenko to go on trial in Russia.
:12:43. > :12:46.As for the war between Russia and Ukraine, I would say that it is
:12:47. > :12:51.incorrect from the start to say there was a war between Russia and
:12:52. > :12:56.Ukraine, because it was a war between two groups of the Ukrainian
:12:57. > :12:59.society, those who supported the Ukrainian government and who were
:13:00. > :13:03.fighting against them. So you cannot say it was a war between Russia and
:13:04. > :13:08.Ukraine. Russia has repeatedly stated there is no war between
:13:09. > :13:14.Russia and Ukraine to be stopped. It was a civil war. It is currently no
:13:15. > :13:20.longer there, we hope, because the ceasefire is largely holding as both
:13:21. > :13:26.the warring sides... We will not have time... We can recognise it. We
:13:27. > :13:30.will not have time to pick up on all those points because Russia did an
:13:31. > :13:37.excellent territory. Where DCD status of this now? Is it over and
:13:38. > :13:44.it will stay like this in definitely? -- Wade UCB status? Do
:13:45. > :13:49.is far from over. There were reports from the Ministry of Defence
:13:50. > :13:53.reporting clashes and an exchange of fire, and shooting, from the rebels'
:13:54. > :13:59.side. And also there was a report a few years ago that even though the
:14:00. > :14:06.artillery fire had diminished, there have been cases of rocket propelled
:14:07. > :14:09.grenades launched. In terms of military activity, it is still
:14:10. > :14:16.ongoing and one has to remember that this is a hybrid war which has a lot
:14:17. > :14:22.of elements to it, security forces operations and this is ongoing. I
:14:23. > :14:23.wish we could continue this discussion but we do have to move
:14:24. > :14:26.on. Thank you. The big referendum argument today
:14:27. > :14:28.has concerned the Queen - is she an "outer", as the Sun
:14:29. > :14:30.newspaper suggests. I think that's one of those issues
:14:31. > :14:34.they call There will have to be some argument
:14:35. > :14:40.about the EU itself at some point before the referendum,
:14:41. > :14:42.but while we wait for that, don't focus on Her Majesty -
:14:43. > :14:44.who is relatively untypical Look instead at the views
:14:45. > :14:48.of ordinary voters. Outside London, Secunder Kermani
:14:49. > :15:05.went to Rochdale to do just that. There is no Eurostar are riding at
:15:06. > :15:10.this station, and that is perhaps the first sign that the membership
:15:11. > :15:15.of this model railway club just outside Rochdale are not massive
:15:16. > :15:18.fans of the EU. Is it the images of thousands of refugees streaming
:15:19. > :15:25.across the continent that is Lee's -- leading them to vote to leave?
:15:26. > :15:31.Yes, because it could be us next. I do not want to happen. When David
:15:32. > :15:35.Cameron says we do not have to take quotas of refugees... I do not
:15:36. > :15:39.believe it. I think we will. I think we will be forced to. We are ruled
:15:40. > :15:45.by Brussels and what Brussels say we have to do. The scenes on the Greek
:15:46. > :15:50.borders melding with existing grievances about previous waves of
:15:51. > :15:54.immigration, from Eastern Europe, from Pakistan, and with a perception
:15:55. > :15:58.of general decline. I have already more or less made my mind up but the
:15:59. > :16:03.refugee crisis has galvanised me even more to thinking out. If you go
:16:04. > :16:11.to the doctors are the surgeries, you are outnumbered. The NHS cannot
:16:12. > :16:16.cope, they say. One of the reasons is because there are a lot of people
:16:17. > :16:21.who have never put a high -- halfpenny into the running of
:16:22. > :16:30.England through taxes, taking a share of the money from the NHS.
:16:31. > :16:35.At this church they are listening to a lunchtime rendition of classical
:16:36. > :16:38.European composers. According to pollsters, the Northwest is almost
:16:39. > :16:42.evenly split between those in favour and those against remaining in the
:16:43. > :16:47.union. The refugee crisis is not always the main concern. It is
:16:48. > :16:53.something which is a product of this moment in time. I do not think it
:16:54. > :16:58.should necessarily colour are how the European Union is. It will come
:16:59. > :17:02.and go. We need to have compassion, we need to have humanity about it,
:17:03. > :17:07.but I don't think that will necessarily sway our thoughts of how
:17:08. > :17:12.we will vote on the European Union. When we voted to go into it, it was
:17:13. > :17:17.the common market. It was not the European Union. That is what we
:17:18. > :17:25.voted for. A common market of goods, not political interference and
:17:26. > :17:28.involvement, which it has become. Rochdale is a strongly Labour seat
:17:29. > :17:34.but in last year's election Ukip came second. The town has more
:17:35. > :17:39.asylum seekers per capita than almost anywhere else in the country.
:17:40. > :17:47.Many here have welcomed them. But there is also resentment, and not
:17:48. > :17:51.just from white Britons. This local Labour councillor is in favour of
:17:52. > :17:54.remaining in Europe but he knows the yes campaign cannot take votes from
:17:55. > :18:01.the sizeable Pakistani community in Rochdale for granted. British Asians
:18:02. > :18:05.have mixed views on it. A few people think we should take the refugees.
:18:06. > :18:10.On the other side there are a lot of issues within the Asian community.
:18:11. > :18:13.They think these refugees and asylum seekers are coming into this country
:18:14. > :18:23.and making a problem for them. People who think this is the burden
:18:24. > :18:27.coming into the economy and the people... We should leave the EU and
:18:28. > :18:33.that will resolve the problem. I do not think it will resolve the
:18:34. > :18:38.problem. We should educate them. His family have owned this
:18:39. > :18:42.cash-and-carry for 60 years. EU red tape is a bigger issue than refugees
:18:43. > :18:46.and migration for him. But he does have concerns about how many have
:18:47. > :18:50.been settled here. We're getting too many. It is a big burden on the
:18:51. > :18:59.taxpayer and British jobs and the economy. What is the solution to
:19:00. > :19:05.that? Is it leaving the EU? Leaving the EU will put us in isolation. I
:19:06. > :19:08.think it is best to stay within the EU, where David Cameron speech to
:19:09. > :19:15.the rest of the nations and get more power, and we trade with them on our
:19:16. > :19:18.terms, and our conditions. The refugee crisis may heighten debates
:19:19. > :19:21.about whether to remain in the EU. But it will not decide them.
:19:22. > :19:28.No, savour this graph because it is not often that you see
:19:29. > :19:30.one move so persuasively in the right direction.
:19:31. > :19:35.It goes back to 1969, and you can see that in the last
:19:36. > :19:39.15 years, the line has basically fallen dramatically.
:19:40. > :19:43.Well it is the rate of teenage pregnancies in England and Wales.
:19:44. > :19:46.The number per thousand women aged 15 to 17.
:19:47. > :19:48.The latest figure published this morning,
:19:49. > :19:55.Something has gone right, although we still have a higher rate
:19:56. > :19:59.of teenage pregnancy than similar countries in Western Europe.
:20:00. > :20:05.of the Teenage Pregnancy Knowledge Exchange, and led
:20:06. > :20:14.the Government strategy for tackling teenage pregnancy.
:20:15. > :20:21.Allison, what has driven the graph down? First of all, it is a
:20:22. > :20:26.fantastic celebration of the work of someone a people involved in the
:20:27. > :20:31.strategy over 15 years. It was the first comprehensive strategy a
:20:32. > :20:35.government had ever had in England, which involved education, health,
:20:36. > :20:39.charities as well. It was a 10-year strategy with the commitment to give
:20:40. > :20:45.young people choices. It was not a strategy which sat on the shelf. It
:20:46. > :20:50.was delivered to councils. It is basically giving them contraception.
:20:51. > :20:53.No. Choices around good sex education, so they could make
:20:54. > :20:58.choices about whether they had sex. If they do have sex, where they
:20:59. > :21:04.could go for contraception, making it easy to look after their sexual
:21:05. > :21:08.health. Basically, Tony Blair comes to power in 1997 and within a year
:21:09. > :21:13.and they announce this. You are effectively saying this is the
:21:14. > :21:17.delayed reaction to what they get? Yes, but with all complex issues it
:21:18. > :21:22.takes a long time to have an impact. The strategy for the first few years
:21:23. > :21:27.was bedding in. The rate was coming down very slowly. We did image
:21:28. > :21:30.strategy review in 2005 and we found that some areas were bringing their
:21:31. > :21:37.rates down really well. And others were not making an impact. We
:21:38. > :21:40.compared the two. The areas making the impact were delivering what they
:21:41. > :21:43.have to deliver. It was a light bulb moment. Some of those areas said
:21:44. > :21:51.there was nothing they could do about it. The counterpoint to the
:21:52. > :21:58.claim was the Tony Blair government, they have come down everywhere, even
:21:59. > :22:01.Denmark. That is already interesting point. European countries brought
:22:02. > :22:07.their rates down steadily since the 1970s and that carried on. In other
:22:08. > :22:10.in the speaking countries around the world, the graph does show a similar
:22:11. > :22:17.pattern but they have all been trying to do the similar -- similar
:22:18. > :22:20.things. It is an international programme about improving sex
:22:21. > :22:22.education, making contraception easier. The World Health
:22:23. > :22:27.Organisation are introducing that around the world. It is not one
:22:28. > :22:32.thing that is common to the technology has changed, how many
:22:33. > :22:37.young people are taking the morning after pill? The morning after pill,
:22:38. > :22:41.it is a bit of a misnomer, you can take it three to five days after
:22:42. > :22:45.unprotected sex, it is difficult to get the numbers. It is one part of
:22:46. > :22:49.the jigsaw. It is not the overall solution. It is a woody good
:22:50. > :22:53.stepping stone into more effective contraception, and of course it is a
:22:54. > :22:56.very good emergency measure. But that on its own will not have
:22:57. > :23:01.brought down rates. It is a jigsaw of different pieces. The debate over
:23:02. > :23:05.whether children under 16 should be able to get contraception without
:23:06. > :23:13.their parents knowing or consenting, that is happening? That was resolved
:23:14. > :23:18.in 1985 after a long legal case. Anyone under 16 can get confidential
:23:19. > :23:24.advice from a doctor or macro nurse. They are encouraged to talk to their
:23:25. > :23:27.parents. That is an effective thing. But if they can't are, it is better
:23:28. > :23:28.they can talk to a doctor or nurse for advice. Thank you.
:23:29. > :23:31.Mexico has a well known problem with drug gangs
:23:32. > :23:35.But it also has a less talked about problem with another kind
:23:36. > :23:40.It's reached a worrying level, and lest you think that it's only
:23:41. > :23:43.a concern for the families of rich industrialists, it no longer is.
:23:44. > :23:49.Vladamir Hernandez went to Mexico City for the Our World
:23:50. > :24:04.series, to investigate the cause and the consequence.
:24:05. > :24:08.This is the call every family in Mexico dreads receiving -
:24:09. > :24:17.Very few countries have such a high kidnap rate as Mexico.
:24:18. > :24:23.And it is a crime that is not only affecting the wealthy,
:24:24. > :24:25.but anyone in society walking down these streets -
:24:26. > :24:28.anyone - can be a quick fix of cash for the kidnappers.
:24:29. > :24:33.According to the authorities, 1500 people were kidnapped
:24:34. > :24:38.But the National Institute of Statistics estimates at least
:24:39. > :24:42.100,000 people are taken, and only a tiny fraction of cases
:24:43. > :24:50.One victim, Roberto, was working as a blacksmith fixing
:24:51. > :24:56.iron bars to a window in rural Mexico, when he was taken.
:24:57. > :25:02.There was a boy, about 14, he was just a kid.
:25:03. > :25:08.Another young guy, he had a pistol, a gun, and he pointed it at me.
:25:09. > :25:16.They kicked me in the face and the ribs.
:25:17. > :25:21.Roberto was released after a few hours, but the kidnappers then
:25:22. > :25:24.took his family, who were later freed by the police.
:25:25. > :25:26.His case is typical, according to private negotiator Max
:25:27. > :26:10.He says the police haven't done enough.
:26:11. > :26:18.The police say they are winning the battle against kidnappers.
:26:19. > :26:21.And they are keen to publicise the success of raids like this
:26:22. > :26:28.But this is just a small part of their role.
:26:29. > :26:30.They work with families behind closed doors to try
:26:31. > :26:33.and persuade the kidnappers to release their captives.
:26:34. > :26:40.Alejandro, not his real name, is a police negotiator who has
:26:41. > :26:42.agreed to play me recordings of a kidnapper made
:26:43. > :27:00.The man who was kidnapped is a bus driver.
:27:01. > :27:02.And when the kidnappers are ready to make a deal,
:27:03. > :27:57.The negotiator's team eventually managed to free the bus driver.
:27:58. > :28:00.But what is causing this wave of apparently random
:28:01. > :28:11.To find out, I have arranged to meet a man who claims he is a kidnapper.
:28:12. > :28:15.When I finally do meet him, I am surprised to find he does not
:28:16. > :28:21.There are lots of different ways of kidnapping someone.
:28:22. > :28:26.Generally I stare at the victim, let them see my eyes.
:28:27. > :28:29.They start crying and I say, "Calm down, bro, we are going to do
:28:30. > :28:37.I'm interested in the money, that's all."
:28:38. > :28:41.Do you ever think about the relatives of the victim
:28:42. > :28:57.But it is very rare we do something to someone who does not deserve it.
:28:58. > :29:00.I don't start fights, but if one happens I make
:29:01. > :29:04.I will stab you in the stomach, or bite your face, or just remove
:29:05. > :29:07.something from you, maybe cut your throat with a knife
:29:08. > :29:12.and mess with your windpipe a little bit.
:29:13. > :29:24.With drugs you have clients and it is continuous.
:29:25. > :29:30.You can make anything up to $2 million.
:29:31. > :29:38.So it is hard to give up.
:29:39. > :29:44.No, I don't have any regrets about the people I have killed.
:29:45. > :29:46.But the truth is I've already BLEEP my life,
:29:47. > :30:08.I can't verify what he said, but I am shaken by meeting him.
:30:09. > :30:12.I don't think I have ever heard anyone talk about death,
:30:13. > :30:22.torture, violence with such ease, with such coldness.
:30:23. > :30:27.It's frightening because he's just like an ordinary young man talking
:30:28. > :30:43.Knowing he was going to die soon, probably.
:30:44. > :30:53.The police reunite dozens of families with their
:30:54. > :31:00.Official police statistics show the number of kidnappings have
:31:01. > :31:13.But the scars from kidnapping take a long time to heal.
:31:14. > :31:17.Roberto, the blacksmith, has been traumatised by the attack.
:31:18. > :31:22.He still doesn't know why he was targeted.
:31:23. > :31:31.Do you think you will ever stop being afraid?
:31:32. > :31:35.Not while there are crimes like this.
:31:36. > :31:42.What makes me sad is that one of them was just a child.
:31:43. > :31:45.He could have been at school, preparing to be a good person.
:31:46. > :32:00.You can watch the Our World documentary Kidnapped In Mexico
:32:01. > :32:06.on Saturday and Sunday on the News Channel at 21:30.
:32:07. > :32:13.You can also follow the negotiation of a true kidnap story in real time
:32:14. > :32:19.We woke to the news this morning of the death of Sir George Martin,
:32:20. > :32:24.Paul McCartney called him a "second father", and he was the first
:32:25. > :32:27.music producer to blend a classical training with rock and roll
:32:28. > :32:33.We'll get a demonstration of what a difference he made
:32:34. > :32:36.to certain songs, but first Stephen Smith has this medley
:32:37. > :32:45.My main role would be telling them what to do with it.
:32:46. > :32:49.This needs to be two and a quarter minutes long.
:32:50. > :32:52.OK, we'll time the chorus, see how many choruses you need.
:32:53. > :32:54.They were all thinking in terms of singles.
:32:55. > :32:57.George Martin says have you got anything you would like to do.
:32:58. > :32:59.I said, we have a song called Please, Please Me.
:33:00. > :33:05.This is one that John had just written.
:33:06. > :33:08.Get this bloody little mic out of the way.
:33:09. > :33:35.# Last night I said these words to my girl
:33:36. > :33:40.# Come on, come on, come on, come on
:33:41. > :33:47.# Please, please me, like I please you.#.
:33:48. > :33:50.At the end of that session I was able to say, you have
:33:51. > :33:57.When I first met them none of them could play the piano very well
:33:58. > :34:01.In order to communicate with them, I found when
:34:02. > :34:05.I went over to the piano and said a chord and played it on the piano,
:34:06. > :34:10.bunch of notes and white keys, it wouldn't mean a thing to them.
:34:11. > :34:14.I thought, if I can play the chord on the guitar,
:34:15. > :34:16.they will see my fingers and the shapes
:34:17. > :34:25.At the same time they bought a piano and started to learn
:34:26. > :34:28.They overtook me and got to play the piano better
:34:29. > :34:32.# Baby's good to me you know she's happy as can be
:34:33. > :34:38.George had done little or no rock and roll when we met him and we had
:34:39. > :34:41.never been in the studio so we had a lot of learning to do.
:34:42. > :34:43.He had a very great musical knowledge and background.
:34:44. > :35:25.Amazing really how creative we could be in those circumstances.
:35:26. > :35:29.and you would just remind us about halfway through the three-hour
:35:30. > :35:32.period, well, there's just about enough on that one,
:35:33. > :35:38.And so you learned to be brilliant, he said, modestly, in 1.5 hours.
:35:39. > :35:40.They were finding new frontiers all the time.
:35:41. > :35:43.I guess their success gave them confidence to do things
:35:44. > :35:53.# Working is all very fine # But love can show you a better time.
:35:54. > :36:00.# Baby you can drive my car, # Yes I'm gonna to be a star # baby,
:36:01. > :36:08.# baby, you can drive my car, and baby, I love you...#.
:36:09. > :36:19.Their ideas now were becoming more potent in the studio
:36:20. > :36:21.and they would start telling me what they wanted
:36:22. > :36:23.and they would start pressing me for more ideas.
:36:24. > :36:26.He would come up with things like have you heard an oboe?
:36:27. > :36:36.If you think about it, George had to deal
:36:37. > :36:39.with all kinds of stuff with the Beatles.
:36:40. > :36:42.John Lennon coming to him saying he wanted to hear the sound
:36:43. > :36:45.I mean, how would you get the sound of
:36:46. > :37:03.He was the least dictatorial person you could ever
:37:04. > :37:06.come across in a recording studio and I think his methodology
:37:07. > :37:08.was to allow the artist explore everything that
:37:09. > :37:11.was possible to explore so we could all see that what we had
:37:12. > :37:18.I do live each day as if I went to see tomorrow,
:37:19. > :37:20.because that is the way to look at it.
:37:21. > :37:22.What the hell am I doing wasting time talking
:37:23. > :37:34.That compilation was curated by Steve Smith.
:37:35. > :37:36.Now to properly understand what George Martin did,
:37:37. > :37:38.how he took tunes and turned them into Beatles tracks,
:37:39. > :37:40.we need a demonstration, so I'm joined
:37:41. > :37:42.at the grand piano by Tom Donald, from
:37:43. > :37:44.the London Contemporary School of Piano,
:37:45. > :37:48.who's going to show us the inner workings of George Martin.
:37:49. > :37:55.I think a lot of us like me have never understood what the producer
:37:56. > :38:05.does or adds. Give us an example of what George Martin does to take a
:38:06. > :38:12.vanilla track and add to it? If you take a song like Eleanor Rigby, you
:38:13. > :38:21.would imagine the demo sounding like this, and he gets it and transcribes
:38:22. > :38:28.it for a string quartet. These sounds, you would expect to hear in
:38:29. > :38:32.Bach, not pop music. So it makes an enormous difference. You mentioned
:38:33. > :38:38.string quartets because his thing was his classical background and he
:38:39. > :38:44.blended with rock and roll. He blended it together. Not only older
:38:45. > :38:50.classical music by Bach, if you look at a day in the life, the last track
:38:51. > :38:55.from Sergeant Pepper, if you listen to the beginning of the track, it
:38:56. > :39:03.sounds like a standard Beatles song, until he brings in Stockhausen
:39:04. > :39:10.influence. That is an Avent guard German composer. Very uncommercial,
:39:11. > :39:16.you could say. It brings this element, it is almost impossible to
:39:17. > :39:22.do on a piano, but he brings it to an orchestral arrangement, it is
:39:23. > :39:26.quite remarkable how he brings those two polar opposites together. It is
:39:27. > :39:31.interesting listening to the archive, you think of the Beatles as
:39:32. > :39:36.being a rock 'n' roll band, but later they are not just rock 'n'
:39:37. > :39:42.roll. There is so much more to the Beatles than rock 'n' roll. That is
:39:43. > :39:51.down to George Martin. You get a song like the Long and Winding Road.
:39:52. > :40:05.Then he makes this orchestration that has horns in it, is grass
:40:06. > :40:09.oriented. -- brass. There are beautiful lush harmonies. There is
:40:10. > :40:15.something very British about it, it you could almost hear in Elgar, fawn
:40:16. > :40:21.Williams, Gustav Holst. It is not obvious but it is definitely there
:40:22. > :40:28.-- Ralph born Williams. He did bring other instruments in as well so it
:40:29. > :40:35.was orchestral? And an odd choice of instruments sometimes. You get a
:40:36. > :40:46.song like Fool On The Hill with a lovely melody. But he decides to
:40:47. > :40:50.bring in a base Karen at -- clarinet. Most people don't even
:40:51. > :40:57.know what a bass clarinet looks like. His accent of the clarinet on
:40:58. > :41:06.the first and third beat of the bar, which is buried not pop music. It is
:41:07. > :41:11.very classical. Most people clapped to pop songs on the second and
:41:12. > :41:15.fourth heat of the bar, it is like you are at panto clapping along to
:41:16. > :41:22.songs with the kids or something. Everything that you say, and what he
:41:23. > :41:27.was saying, you must say of the five, perhaps this is sacrilege,
:41:28. > :41:30.that he is the most musically accomplished? It is unimaginable
:41:31. > :41:36.what the Beatles would have sounded like without George Martin. Is he
:41:37. > :41:41.known in classical circles? Do you consider yourself a classical
:41:42. > :41:47.pianist? I have a strong classical background but I'm really fascinated
:41:48. > :41:49.by musicians who can cross the boundaries so effortlessly. What I
:41:50. > :41:53.have said today, almost sounds like it is ridiculous. The way he
:41:54. > :41:58.integrated it with their songs just worked so beautifully and it is part
:41:59. > :42:03.of that legend. Thank you so much for demonstrating. You are welcome.