:00:10. > :00:16.The chamber hereby sentences you, Radovan Karadzic, to a single
:00:17. > :00:18.sentence of 40 years of imprisonment.
:00:19. > :00:20.Guilty of genocide in Bosnia - Radovan Karadzic is sentenced
:00:21. > :00:36.Genocide. There is no other way to classify it, murdering so many
:00:37. > :00:38.people. And we'll talk to the man
:00:39. > :00:40.who prosecuted him in As Belgian police hunt what may be
:00:41. > :00:47.a second bomber on the run, there is growing anger
:00:48. > :00:49.amongst its citizens, and a sense more might
:00:50. > :01:00.have been done. TRANSLATION: So there is a sadness
:01:01. > :01:02.because it's serious, but also anger because I feel they didn't do what
:01:03. > :01:08.was needed to protect us. COMMENTATOR: Cruyff.
:01:09. > :01:19.And we remember the Dutch Master of football, Johan Cruyff.
:01:20. > :01:25.Convicted of genocide, extermination, persecution,
:01:26. > :01:29.deportation, hostage taking and terror, the former Bosnian Serb
:01:30. > :01:31.leader Radovan Karadzic was told today he would spend the rest
:01:32. > :01:42.It is hard to quantify such crimes in terms of prison days.
:01:43. > :01:44.A 40 years sentence feels peculiarly light,
:01:45. > :01:47.for the perpetrator of quite so much including the massacre of 8,000
:01:48. > :01:51.But today's ruling, by United Nations judges
:01:52. > :01:54.at The Hague, has the feel of a landmark.
:01:55. > :01:57.Mark Urban on the closing chapter of a story he's covered for more
:01:58. > :02:00.than two decades, and a warning, his film does contain some graphic
:02:01. > :02:14.It took more than two decades for this moment to come.
:02:15. > :02:18.The chamber hereby sentences you, Radovan Karadzic, to a single
:02:19. > :02:22.sentence of 40, 4-0 years of imprisonment.
:02:23. > :02:24.A leader in the dock for war crimes, receiving a 40-year
:02:25. > :02:32.Quite a rarity in this disordered world.
:02:33. > :02:33.This woman's family were early victims of
:02:34. > :02:40.At the start of the Bosnian war, both parents and
:02:41. > :02:43.two uncles found themselves in Serb camps, where wholesale murder
:02:44. > :02:50.Today, Karadzic was found guilty for that, but acquitted
:02:51. > :02:53.on a charge of genocide relating to those actions in 1992.
:02:54. > :03:01.Because there is no other way to classify, like,
:03:02. > :03:18.The murder of maybe a couple of dozen people is different,
:03:19. > :03:20.but when you murder hundreds upon thousands of people,
:03:21. > :03:21.that is something completely different.
:03:22. > :03:27.And does it serve notice, in your view, to other
:03:28. > :03:31.people who might be tempted to conduct crimes against humanity
:03:32. > :03:36.in the same way, that they won't get away with it?
:03:37. > :03:40.I think it's incredibly important, especially
:03:41. > :03:46.after there has been such a lengthy time and the fact that these men
:03:47. > :03:49.had become fugitives and had gone into hiding and in his case,
:03:50. > :03:54.I think because of that, it shows that
:03:55. > :03:57.there are people out there that are trying to find all these
:03:58. > :04:02.Karadzic was a poet, lecturer and psychiatrist,
:04:03. > :04:05.who became the leader of Bosnia's Serbs.
:04:06. > :04:09.From the outset, his community rejected the country's
:04:10. > :04:14.breakaway from Yugoslavia, and tried to create their own reality,
:04:15. > :04:18.carving out Serbian enclaves, driving away
:04:19. > :04:23.other ethnicities and besieging the Bosnian government in Sarajevo.
:04:24. > :04:29.I persuaded him to allow me to go behind the Serb lines right the way
:04:30. > :04:31.through to their capital, and then of course, I saw
:04:32. > :04:36.The truth is that I had always imagined great evil,
:04:37. > :04:39.and I think he was a man who had great
:04:40. > :04:45.evil, from a distorted character, inside him.
:04:46. > :04:50.Great evil is visible on a man's face, but of course, it isn't.
:04:51. > :04:55.After the war, Karadzic evaded arrest.
:04:56. > :04:59.he earned a living as a healer before finally
:05:00. > :05:05.Karadzic was charged with two counts of genocide,
:05:06. > :05:07.five of crimes against humanity and four of
:05:08. > :05:12.violating the customs and laws of war.
:05:13. > :05:24.Today, he was found guilty on ten of those 11 counts.
:05:25. > :05:28.And it was the murder of more than 7,000
:05:29. > :05:31.Bosnians following the fall of Srebrenica in 1995 that sealed
:05:32. > :05:37.It was an enormous catalogue of crimes, and it's taken the court
:05:38. > :05:44.In the case of Karadzic's backer, Slobodan Milosevic,
:05:45. > :05:52.he died before a verdict could be reached.
:05:53. > :05:56.It's an example of, frankly, a process that
:05:57. > :05:59.is still, in reality, experimental, and we should learn lessons from it.
:06:00. > :06:08.It is not helpful at all for victims to
:06:09. > :06:11.have to wait so long to bring whatever conclusion trial verdicts
:06:12. > :06:16.And it frankly doesn't dignify, really,
:06:17. > :06:19.legal systems to say that it is this necessary to wait this long
:06:20. > :06:24.So does the Karadzic verdict set the tone for future
:06:25. > :06:36.After Karadzic was charged and a new war had broken
:06:37. > :06:39.out in Kosovo, even then, Serbia's military and political
:06:40. > :06:43.leaders were afraid of going to the Hague.
:06:44. > :06:47.I went to see the artillery commanders the day after,
:06:48. > :06:49.and the day after that I went to see Milosevic.
:06:50. > :06:53.And both of them, at that stage, feared the actions of the Hague
:06:54. > :06:55.tribunal more than they feared Nato bombing.
:06:56. > :07:01.I remember returning and saying to prime
:07:02. > :07:04.minister Blair that in my view, if he were to stop the Kosovo war,
:07:05. > :07:07.bombing would be less effective than immediately indicting him
:07:08. > :07:11.for the crimes that I saw committed that day.
:07:12. > :07:13.The Hague process has sent a powerful signal to dictators
:07:14. > :07:23.But does fear of trial also mean that a Gaddafi or an Assad
:07:24. > :07:27.will cling to power, refusing exile and prolonging war?
:07:28. > :07:34.of the Sudanese leader Omar al-Bashir is instructive.
:07:35. > :07:39.Probably, the only reason he stood again for re-election
:07:40. > :07:43.was because that guarantees him, or more or less guarantees
:07:44. > :07:45.that he will not be surrendered to the Hague for trial
:07:46. > :07:51.And so, this is not a wartime hanging on,
:07:52. > :07:55.this is a peacetime hanging on.
:07:56. > :07:58.But if it happens in a country like Sudan, where some would say
:07:59. > :08:01.there is a need for things to change, the presence of the court
:08:02. > :08:06.Will today's verdict be followed by similar ones
:08:07. > :08:14.Well, right now, great powers, the US, Russia,
:08:15. > :08:17.China and so on, retain a considerable influence over
:08:18. > :08:20.which cases are actually referred to the international court and can
:08:21. > :08:23.in some measure protect themselves and their allies.
:08:24. > :08:25.That has led to a lot of unhappiness among smaller countries,
:08:26. > :08:27.particularly in Africa, who have threatened
:08:28. > :08:36.So only an optimist would say that today's verdict sets
:08:37. > :08:42.The Bosnian war claimed 100,000 lives.
:08:43. > :08:48.Today has been a key moment in the reckoning of guilt for that
:08:49. > :08:51.tragedy, even if Karadzic, who says he will appeal,
:08:52. > :08:53.and many of his community are not yet ready to face
:08:54. > :09:08.This was indeed a key moment but after six years of trial and 18
:09:09. > :09:11.months of deliberation, many of the survivors and even those who gave
:09:12. > :09:12.witness, did not live to see the day.
:09:13. > :09:15.This evening, I spoke to Serge Brammertz, Chief Proseuctor
:09:16. > :09:18.of the International Criminal Tribunal at the Hague.
:09:19. > :09:20.It is true, the victims were waiting long, perhaps too long
:09:21. > :09:28.It's still justice which has been done and seen to be done,
:09:29. > :09:31.and I am absolutely convinced that many survivors
:09:32. > :09:34.consider this a very important day for themselves,
:09:35. > :09:37.allowing them to perhaps move forward and to give
:09:38. > :09:41.this very difficult reconciliation a better chance of being successful.
:09:42. > :09:45.Karadzic insisted on representing himself.
:09:46. > :09:50.That must have been incredibly traumatic for the witnesses.
:09:51. > :09:52.It was indeed the case that he represented himself.
:09:53. > :09:59.Of course, he had a number of lawyers
:10:00. > :10:01.working with him and supporting him, helping him.
:10:02. > :10:06.But it is clear that in some cross-examinations,
:10:07. > :10:09.for example, for witnesses and survivors, it was sometimes
:10:10. > :10:13.a difficult situation for victims and survivors to testify.
:10:14. > :10:17.On the other hand, for many of the victims,
:10:18. > :10:22.it was so important for themselves and
:10:23. > :10:25.their families to confront Karadzic, to confront the one,
:10:26. > :10:30.now officially responsible for the crimes that were committed.
:10:31. > :10:33.So for many, it was important to be able to tell the story,
:10:34. > :10:42.I was in Sarajevo last year and it still feels like a frozen conflict.
:10:43. > :10:43.The parliament itself breaks down into ethnic groupings.
:10:44. > :10:50.that this will move to heal the country?
:10:51. > :10:54.Unfortunately, I have to agree with you that what I see
:10:55. > :11:00.and what we have witnessed over the last few years is far
:11:01. > :11:03.from seeing the country moving forward as one nation.
:11:04. > :11:10.Many of the persons convicted by this tribunal are still
:11:11. > :11:12.seen as heroes in their own communities.
:11:13. > :11:17.So there is a lot of work still to be done.
:11:18. > :11:19.The president of the Republika Srpska, who just
:11:20. > :11:22.this week named a student dormitory after Karadzic,
:11:23. > :11:27.as a martyr for the Serbian people.
:11:28. > :11:32.I consider it absolutely irresponsible
:11:33. > :11:39.One would expect that politicians, especially in a country
:11:40. > :11:41.still in transition after a difficult conflict,
:11:42. > :11:45.would have a policy to unite people.
:11:46. > :11:51.But what we see is unfortunately exactly the opposite,
:11:52. > :11:55.using this rhetoric and trying to portray the picture of a hero.
:11:56. > :11:58.If you are a leader, is the lesson "Don't do genocide",
:11:59. > :12:10."Don't get caught, don't relinquish power,
:12:11. > :12:12.don't give yourself up to the Hague,
:12:13. > :12:15.Do you feel the fear that wars may go on for
:12:16. > :12:17.longer if they prefer to fight till the end?
:12:18. > :12:21.I hope that the signal of this judgment is well.
:12:22. > :12:23.Sometimes it takes long, but perhaps if somebody
:12:24. > :12:25.is still in power, he cannot easily be prosecuted.
:12:26. > :12:28.But at the end of the day, everybody has to confront the crimes
:12:29. > :12:33.But I agree with you that if we look at the world today,
:12:34. > :12:36.probably never since World War II have there been so many
:12:37. > :12:41.conflicts ongoing, and unfortunately, the rule for many
:12:42. > :12:44.conflicts is impunity and not accountability.
:12:45. > :12:48.There may be those looking on who say you can do it when it
:12:49. > :12:52.comes to the smaller countries like Bosnia and Liberia,
:12:53. > :12:55.but you can't realistically imagine the day when a British Prime
:12:56. > :13:00.Minister or an American president will be before you.
:13:01. > :13:02.You know, international justice is functioning
:13:03. > :13:13.But if there would not have been the ICTY, I don't think anybody
:13:14. > :13:14.from the conflict in the former Yugoslavia
:13:15. > :13:15.would have been prosecuted.
:13:16. > :13:18.So I think international justice is still relatively young,
:13:19. > :13:23.It is far from perfect, but there are a number
:13:24. > :13:25.of encouraging signs, and I think this
:13:26. > :13:29.Do you think that Bashar al-Assad
:13:30. > :13:39.The conflict in Syria already today has been longer than the wars
:13:40. > :13:46.in the former Yugoslavia, the number of victims being higher
:13:47. > :13:49.at 250,000 than the victims during the conflict in the former
:13:50. > :13:53.So I very much hope that sooner or later, there will be
:13:54. > :13:59.It is a decision which has to be taken, I presume,
:14:00. > :14:20.The Belgian interior and Justice Prime Minister -- ministers offered
:14:21. > :14:24.to tender their resignations as a suspected
:14:25. > :14:30.we will hear from our report in a moment but firstly we have heard in
:14:31. > :14:34.the last few moments about a raid in Paris and another in Brussels. Very
:14:35. > :14:41.sketchy details but Mark bourbon is here to do is tell us what you can.
:14:42. > :14:50.A lot is going on in Europe. The Paris Raid, news of that broke, the
:14:51. > :14:54.North of the City, the interior minister said that a plot has been
:14:55. > :14:59.interrupted and a man arrested but he says it is not related to the
:15:00. > :15:06.recent Brussels attacks. In Brussels, in the neighbourhood of
:15:07. > :15:10.Maelbeek, six arrests reported tonight, so quite a bit going on, it
:15:11. > :15:13.gives you a sense of how the counterterrorist service and police
:15:14. > :15:18.in these countries is running hot in trying to deal with these plots.
:15:19. > :15:24.This feels in stark contrast to what is happening on the political side,
:15:25. > :15:28.where we have heard of these resignations from ministers who feel
:15:29. > :15:32.they did not act fast enough? The embarrassing thing that emerged
:15:33. > :15:35.yesterday from President Erdogan of Turkey was that this man, Ibrahim El
:15:36. > :15:43.Bakraoui, was sent back from Turkey to the Netherlands in June and then
:15:44. > :15:46.of course became one of the suicide bombers yesterday. What did the
:15:47. > :15:51.Turks say to the Dutch? Wanted the Dutch say to the Belgians? Why,
:15:52. > :15:54.having sent him back for being a suspected militant, wasn't he
:15:55. > :16:01.questioned or something at the very least? A lot of wrinkles are being
:16:02. > :16:04.exposed by this, and as we have seen since November, the fact that people
:16:05. > :16:11.are able to move in such large numbers in the Schengen area, there
:16:12. > :16:17.isn't a proper system of advanced passenger information on the
:16:18. > :16:20.InterCity train services. All of these gaps in knowledge are being
:16:21. > :16:26.exposed and have been exposed since Paris, particularly in Europe in
:16:27. > :16:31.space, and it is a huge problem. We have heard from ministers offering
:16:32. > :16:34.the resignation and it has not been accepted by the Prime Minister, but
:16:35. > :16:39.we also heard this evening that two of the bombers, the brothers, were
:16:40. > :16:45.on a US watchlist. Does that tell us anything? Well, a watchlist is if
:16:46. > :16:49.you put your advanced passenger information, it will flag something.
:16:50. > :16:53.There are normally different responses, ranging from sees this
:16:54. > :16:57.person, to, please tell this security agency that he has passed
:16:58. > :17:01.through your airport but take no further action. There are various
:17:02. > :17:05.responses, and there are thousands of people on these watch lists. The
:17:06. > :17:08.number of active militants who they would be looking at and returned
:17:09. > :17:13.jihadists would be smaller than this. The real issue is if they are
:17:14. > :17:16.moving in a car between Brussels and Paris, as people were last November,
:17:17. > :17:21.how do you find them? They might or might not be on a list. They might
:17:22. > :17:25.be using a false passport. We have seen signs recently of real alarm in
:17:26. > :17:29.the counterterrorist services. We heard from Europol yesterday and
:17:30. > :17:35.today about this, about the thousands of people. One suspect can
:17:36. > :17:39.require dozens of security agents to have that person under 24-hour
:17:40. > :17:44.surveillance. There simply are not the resources, and the space grim
:17:45. > :17:48.feeling among many people in France and Belgium conducting security
:17:49. > :17:52.operations that with the numbers of returned jihadists and suspected
:17:53. > :17:54.members of Islamic State group sells, they just can't get on top of
:17:55. > :18:04.all these plots. Thanks very much. Let's go now to the streets of
:18:05. > :18:09.Brussels for this report. A minute's silence
:18:10. > :18:11.to remember the dead. For some, the emotions
:18:12. > :18:15.were still too much. I wanted to come because I am really
:18:16. > :18:19.sad about it and I want to show my support and my love for my
:18:20. > :18:22.city and all the people As well as sorrow, there is also
:18:23. > :18:29.anger in some quarters that one suicide bomber had been
:18:30. > :18:35.deported from Turkey last year, TRANSLATION: I think they didn't do
:18:36. > :18:39.everything they could have, so I am sad because it
:18:40. > :18:42.is so serious, and I am angry because I don't believe
:18:43. > :18:51.they did enough to protect us. Belgium's intelligence services
:18:52. > :18:58.based in the building behind me are facing a lot of tough questions
:18:59. > :19:01.right now about their competence. It's not the first time they have
:19:02. > :19:05.come in for criticism. After the events in Paris
:19:06. > :19:08.in November, many in France were damning about Belgium's ability
:19:09. > :19:10.to deal with jihadis plotting Today, both the Justice
:19:11. > :19:13.and Interior Ministry TRANSLATION: I offered my
:19:14. > :19:16.resignation to the Prime The Prime Minister and the inner
:19:17. > :19:19.cabinet requested clearly this morning that I stay on,
:19:20. > :19:21.given the current situation, that in a war situation,
:19:22. > :19:24.you cannot leave the field. Here is why there is so much
:19:25. > :19:26.pressure on Belgium's intelligence The man in the middle of this photo,
:19:27. > :19:33.Ibrahim El Bakraoui, who blew himself up
:19:34. > :19:35.at the airport, was deported from Turkey
:19:36. > :19:37.as a terrorism suspect, although Belgian authorities
:19:38. > :19:46.said they couldn't link His brother Khaled, who blew himself
:19:47. > :19:52.up at Maelbeek Metro station, had rented a safe house used to prepare
:19:53. > :19:56.for the Paris attacks and a flat Salah Abdeslam used to hide away.
:19:57. > :19:59.Another suspected of being an IS Bob May go behind both the Brussels and
:20:00. > :20:02.Paris attacks before reportedly blowing himself up at the airport as
:20:03. > :20:08.well, was also well known to Belgian authorities. As these court papers
:20:09. > :20:14.show, in the past few weeks, one suspect was being tried in absentia,
:20:15. > :20:19.accused of being part of a network sending fighters to Syria. According
:20:20. > :20:24.to the documents, he had joined IS but had managed to slip back into
:20:25. > :20:29.Belgium. Some analysts say Belgian security services are overwhelmed.
:20:30. > :20:37.Some people talk of 900 people on the watchlist by the intelligence
:20:38. > :20:41.services. And we have two agencies, which altogether makes up 1000
:20:42. > :20:47.officers. The EU have almost one potential terrorist for one
:20:48. > :20:50.intelligence officer. The budget of the intelligence services has not
:20:51. > :20:59.only declined recently, it has declined for the past 25 years. In
:21:00. > :21:03.Belgium, there has been this trend of cutting into everything that
:21:04. > :21:09.relates to security, not only intelligence, but also police and
:21:10. > :21:12.defence. Bowden was in some ways expecting to be targeted, but the
:21:13. > :21:16.scale of what happened here on Tuesday morning was still a shock --
:21:17. > :21:22.Belgium was expecting to be targeted. It could have been even
:21:23. > :21:25.deadlier. Today, there have been claims that Salah Abdeslam was
:21:26. > :21:28.planning to launch an attack using automatic weapons to coincide with
:21:29. > :21:31.the explosions. The ease with which he and others have been able to
:21:32. > :21:35.travel around Europe is leading many to call for greater international
:21:36. > :21:47.intelligence cooperation. We are dealing with individuals and a
:21:48. > :21:52.threat of denying the existence of borders. They are making use of it,
:21:53. > :21:57.capitalising on the lack of cooperation between the various
:21:58. > :22:04.police and intelligence services and the fact that basically, outlaws
:22:05. > :22:08.move faster than the law. With two suspects still on the run, the
:22:09. > :22:10.intelligence services here are trying to catch the rest of this
:22:11. > :22:17.debt work whilst themselves under fire.
:22:18. > :22:22.So what does terror do to those of us left behind, even those who have
:22:23. > :22:25.not been visiting heard? Have found yourself perhaps not taking the tube
:22:26. > :22:28.in recent days or looking around you with slightly more suspicion?
:22:29. > :22:31.Joining me now is Neil Norman, founder of Human Recognition Systems
:22:32. > :22:33.and Deborah Del Vecchio-Scully, trauma counsellor who was with
:22:34. > :22:47.Debra, I wonder if you can give us a sense, after an attack like 9/11, we
:22:48. > :22:54.always feel that life will not be the same again, but did people
:22:55. > :22:59.actually change their behaviour? Well, I do feel that people did feel
:23:00. > :23:07.like life had changed for ever. And to some degree, people change with
:23:08. > :23:14.that. But it depends on your circumstances and your exposure. In
:23:15. > :23:18.today's world, with all the uncertainty that is happening in
:23:19. > :23:23.Europe and Brussels and Paris, there is more of a pervasive sense of
:23:24. > :23:29.fearfulness in life in general and how we go about living. But does
:23:30. > :23:32.that last? If you make a pledge to yourself like, you are not going to
:23:33. > :23:40.get on the subway or the tube or whatever it may be, do people stick
:23:41. > :23:46.to that and if so, for how long? That is hard to predict. Those kinds
:23:47. > :23:56.of behaviours are fair driven, and should things calm down and resume
:23:57. > :24:00.to more, normal is an overused word, but a sense of less impending doom
:24:01. > :24:05.from the number of attacks that have been happening, people might slowly
:24:06. > :24:11.resume their normal activities. A lot of that depends on who they were
:24:12. > :24:18.before this attack, if they have had exposure to other scary and
:24:19. > :24:23.terrifying events. And just the human capacity for coping. Neil,
:24:24. > :24:28.sometimes we look to technology to give us an extra front-line in
:24:29. > :24:31.dealing with that terror. Do you think people are weirdly sort of
:24:32. > :24:38.craving that now, paving something that does provide an extra barrier?
:24:39. > :24:43.I think we are accepting the fact that technology has a role to play,
:24:44. > :24:45.and we would also accept that we will have to surrender convenience,
:24:46. > :24:50.something we crave a lot in the West. So if you look at what has
:24:51. > :24:54.recently happened, I think it is fair to say that one of the things
:24:55. > :25:00.that will have to be considered is pushing back the barriers. At the
:25:01. > :25:04.moment, we only stop and check people at the ticket presentation
:25:05. > :25:07.point, whereas if you go through other airports around the world,
:25:08. > :25:12.like in East Africa, they tend to push the barrier out further. Where
:25:13. > :25:23.would you stand on something like profiling? Is that always to be
:25:24. > :25:26.rejected? It is a difficult subject. But one of the bodies within the
:25:27. > :25:31.United Nations has been looking at this for a number of years and there
:25:32. > :25:35.are encouraging reports to introduce some kind of profiling where you
:25:36. > :25:39.have different gradings of security being applied to different threats,
:25:40. > :25:44.with a degree of randomisation. So the people you assume to be safe,
:25:45. > :25:48.you still randomly select them for different grades of security to put
:25:49. > :25:54.them through. If you look at the profile of individuals who tend to
:25:55. > :25:57.commit these sorts of terrorist acts, they do fit a particular
:25:58. > :26:03.profile. It is not comfortable for us to discuss, but I think there are
:26:04. > :26:09.ways and means. As I say, a United Nations body has been looking to
:26:10. > :26:14.investigate this. But there is a guilt associated with profiling,
:26:15. > :26:19.isn't that? Or discomfort. I absolutely feel that it is a
:26:20. > :26:26.slippery slope ethnically to begin profiling. -- ethically. What about
:26:27. > :26:31.the formula for dealing with atrocities? We have noticed that
:26:32. > :26:35.there is almost a sense that you have the # ready or the colours of
:26:36. > :26:41.the artful tower, the changing of the Avatar on social media -- the
:26:42. > :26:44.colours of the Eiffel Tower. There is almost a passivity to that
:26:45. > :26:49.response. I wonder if you think that is a coping mechanism or a way of
:26:50. > :26:55.slipping into acceptance. Unfortunately, I think there is a
:26:56. > :27:04.desensitisation. There seem to be so many violent acts, senseless
:27:05. > :27:09.terrorist acts, that in essence, as a way of coping, particularly with
:27:10. > :27:14.people who have been traumatised, you do slip into avoidance and
:27:15. > :27:19.denial. And unfortunately, I think technology has shrunk our world. I
:27:20. > :27:25.am here in Connecticut on the other side of the world, and we with the
:27:26. > :27:31.American counselling Association can anticipate how others are going to
:27:32. > :27:37.respond to something, because social media brings it right into our
:27:38. > :27:40.homes, in real-time. Thank you both very much.
:27:41. > :27:42.A packed public gallery at the Royal Courts
:27:43. > :27:46.The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse
:27:47. > :27:48.was considering what happened in the London Borough
:27:49. > :27:51.Dozens of their former residents had turned up to witness it.
:27:52. > :27:54.That abuse occurred in Lambeth's care homes in the latter half
:27:55. > :28:00.What Justice Lowell Goddard's inquiry is examining is the extent
:28:01. > :28:02.of institutional failure in tackling it.
:28:03. > :28:04.A few weeks ago, Newsnight examined one particular strand
:28:05. > :28:09.We'll come to that in a moment, but first, Jake Morris
:28:10. > :28:21.This morning's hearing heard some big claims of abuse on an industrial
:28:22. > :28:26.scale, claims of institutionalised evil, claims of a reversal back to
:28:27. > :28:30.the dark ages. These claims were made by the leader of this group of
:28:31. > :28:38.former residents of Lambeth care homes. It is a group who now say
:28:39. > :28:42.they number 600 survivors. One of the things that Lambeth has never
:28:43. > :28:45.lacked over the years is inquiries. There have been numerous police
:28:46. > :28:49.inquiries. Social workers have looked at various aspects of
:28:50. > :28:52.Lambeth. Independent experts have been brought in. Each of these
:28:53. > :28:56.inquiries has looked at a particular strand of what went wrong. None of
:28:57. > :29:00.them have really burned the dots and got the overall big picture. That is
:29:01. > :29:04.the challenge that faces justice Goddard and her panel here, to get
:29:05. > :29:08.to the bottom of what really happened. One of the other
:29:09. > :29:14.challenges they face is to have the trust of the survivors. That is not
:29:15. > :29:19.a given. After today's hearing, I spoke to the leader of this group
:29:20. > :29:22.and I asked him what degree of faith his members have in this inquiry.
:29:23. > :29:27.I have faith in the investigation we're going to do, and I believe
:29:28. > :29:29.if we can point them in the right direction,
:29:30. > :29:38.this inquiry will have no option but to find the truth.
:29:39. > :29:48.Newsnight was also mentioned, what did the report say? A report how in
:29:49. > :29:56.1998 a detected have -- a detective was removed from his post when a man
:29:57. > :30:03.wanted to approach Paul Boateng. We are told he wanted to ask him what
:30:04. > :30:11.if anything he knew of a known paedophile, a man called John
:30:12. > :30:14.Carroll. Today at the enquiry, Ben Emerson set out a lot of the
:30:15. > :30:19.territory that will be covered and he made reference to the Newsnight
:30:20. > :30:23.broadcast and I think what's clear what was in the broadcast will be
:30:24. > :30:27.examined by the enquiry. He also said and I should make it clear
:30:28. > :30:34.there has been no evidence presented to the enquiry of any wrongdoing by
:30:35. > :30:38.Lord Boateng and in our broadcast we made that clear also, and he says he
:30:39. > :30:40.did not know John Carroll. Thank you for joining us.
:30:41. > :30:42.We're hurtling towards the Easter weekend and for Ireland,
:30:43. > :30:46.The citizens of our closest neighbour are preparing to celebrate
:30:47. > :30:49.the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising, the rebellion
:30:50. > :30:54.against the British Empire, the start of a series of events
:30:55. > :30:56.which led to the country leaving the United Kingdom altogether.
:30:57. > :30:59.But for some, its legacy remains a difficult one, with which Ireland
:31:00. > :31:22.To know they dreamed and are dead.
:31:23. > :31:25.In 1921, the poet WB Yeats published those words about the most important
:31:26. > :31:39.The Easter Rising of 1916, Ireland's foundational moment.
:31:40. > :31:42.In 1916, with the First World War raging, a ragtag group of rebels
:31:43. > :31:44.and revolutionaries saw an opportunity to strike
:31:45. > :31:48.Ireland had yet again been promised home-rule,
:31:49. > :31:51.but for these men, that simply wasn't enough.
:31:52. > :31:53.With England distracted, with the war on the continent,
:31:54. > :31:56.the First World War, it was seen as an opportune moment,
:31:57. > :32:01.at some point during the course of that horrific war,
:32:02. > :32:05.in which 200,000 Irish men are enlisted into the British Army,
:32:06. > :32:15.On Easter Monday, nationalists seized the General Post Office.
:32:16. > :32:17.Patrick Pearse, one of the rebel leaders, pasted copies
:32:18. > :32:29.of the Irish Proclamation on its doors.
:32:30. > :32:33.The British government quickly dispatched thousands of soldiers.
:32:34. > :32:38.They thought they were in France, having been training for the war.
:32:39. > :32:46.What any British soldier in 1916 would do, they built trenches
:32:47. > :32:55.After shelling from a Royal Navy battleship, Dublin was in flames.
:32:56. > :32:57.By Saturday, the rising had been crushed.
:32:58. > :32:59.In the following days the British government ordered the execution
:33:00. > :33:05.of 15 of its leaders by firing squad.
:33:06. > :33:08.James Connolly's injuries in the battle were so grevious
:33:09. > :33:15.Thousands more including 77 women were arrested.
:33:16. > :33:18.The Irish public opinion initially was very hostile to the rising
:33:19. > :33:21.but that start to change when the news of the executions
:33:22. > :33:35.The way the executions were carried out was extraordinarily hamfisted.
:33:36. > :33:37.It was under the Defence of the Realm Act, very strict
:33:38. > :33:41.It has been likened by one observer, the Irish public were watching
:33:42. > :33:44.the slow seeping blood from behind the prison door.
:33:45. > :33:47.1916 is about contested memory and history.
:33:48. > :33:58.Thousands of Irish men died at the Battle of the Somme,
:33:59. > :34:03.only months later, fighting for the British Empire,
:34:04. > :34:06.commemorated here at the Irish War Memorial.
:34:07. > :34:09.The truth is, 1916 helped create and cement the divisions we've known
:34:10. > :34:13.Those who fought against the Imperial British,
:34:14. > :34:15.or who fought the Germans on continental Europe?
:34:16. > :34:21.That question continues to divide Ireland.
:34:22. > :34:25.Those who rebelled against the state in 1916 were a tiny minority,
:34:26. > :34:30.they didn't command the support even fellow nationalists.
:34:31. > :34:35.There's a large degree of antipathy towards them in the unionist
:34:36. > :34:38.community because the rebellion took place at a time when men
:34:39. > :34:42.from all over Ireland, Unionist and nationalist,
:34:43. > :34:47.were fighting alongside each other and dying in the mud of Flanders.
:34:48. > :34:51.All of us, as we try to be reconciled to living together,
:34:52. > :34:54.because we will live together, have to accept that we are
:34:55. > :34:58.We mightn't agree with the other narrative, but it is the sum total
:34:59. > :35:02.There are those who will commemorate the battle of the Somme,
:35:03. > :35:08.We have to respect the memory of those who fell.
:35:09. > :35:12.But that was an imperialist adventure.
:35:13. > :35:14.President de Valera, the sole surviving commandant
:35:15. > :35:20.With him, Premier Sean Lemass at the celebrations in Dublin
:35:21. > :35:26.outside the General Post Office where the first shots were fired.
:35:27. > :35:28.The Rising's 50th anniversary in 1966 was celebrated
:35:29. > :35:37.Today's perspective of the rising is more nuanced.
:35:38. > :35:41.The fact that it caused carnage, that the majority of people killed
:35:42. > :35:44.in the rising were civilians caught in the wrong place
:35:45. > :35:50.The fact that although this was very rarely referred to,
:35:51. > :35:52.the fact that this set the seal on Ulster's separatism.
:35:53. > :36:05.Independence wouldn't have happened when it did without the rising,
:36:06. > :36:08.but then, perhaps, the violence to come might not have either.
:36:09. > :36:11.It began a war of independence, and the legacy of that war
:36:12. > :36:14.of independence includes the partition of Ireland.
:36:15. > :36:16.It includes the question of those who felt they were attending
:36:17. > :36:20.to unfinished business at a much later stage.
:36:21. > :36:22.Because obviously a unified Irish Republic was not achieved
:36:23. > :36:29.And you have the role of violence in the creation of both states,
:36:30. > :36:32.Northern Ireland, and ultimately what became known as the Republic.
:36:33. > :36:35.They are very troubling questions that are very difficult
:36:36. > :36:43.Someone once said that Britain always looked at Ireland
:36:44. > :36:45.through the wrong end of a telescope, so never
:36:46. > :36:50.Now Ireland is turning deep telescope onto itself
:36:51. > :36:55.On this 100th anniversary it is seeing them anew.
:36:56. > :37:11.And Connolly and Pearse
:37:12. > :37:19.Are changed, changed utterly:
:37:20. > :37:25.A terrible beauty is born.
:37:26. > :37:27.Actress and Director, Fiona Shaw, there, reading WB Yeats,
:37:28. > :37:37.They talk of him as the man who reinvented football.
:37:38. > :37:41.The Dutch Master Johan Cruyff died today, a player and then a manager
:37:42. > :37:44.who gave a whole new philosophy to football and, you might even say,
:37:45. > :37:46.gave us the modern, inimitable Barcelona as it plays today.
:37:47. > :37:48.Just as importantly, he gave us the legacy
:37:49. > :37:53.We'll come to that in a moment, with some trepidation.
:37:54. > :38:05.First, one of his biggest fans, our very own Stephen Smith.
:38:06. > :38:14.And they were the best side around by a
:38:15. > :38:22.He invented this Cruyff turn, where he seemed
:38:23. > :38:32.to be managing to play the ball back through his own feet.
:38:33. > :38:39.The little turn and the back flick, and completely
:38:40. > :38:41.wrongfooting the fullback on that occasion.
:38:42. > :38:47.The style of his football, and the grace.
:38:48. > :38:49.Cruyff was born a few hundred yards from the Ajax stadium,
:38:50. > :38:52.and his dad was a grocer who supplied Ajax with
:38:53. > :38:59.His mother used to clean the changing rooms at Ajax to make
:39:00. > :39:01.money, so they really lived at Ajax and
:39:02. > :39:04.from the age of four used to hang around and everyone knew this
:39:05. > :39:06.toddler who was always hanging around, kicking a ball.
:39:07. > :39:09.It really was his club in a way that is
:39:10. > :39:13.The main thing for everybody and especially for a
:39:14. > :39:16.sportsman is, you must enjoy yourself, otherwise you will never
:39:17. > :39:23.enjoy it and you will never be good.
:39:24. > :39:26.He said that people who try to score these days hit the ball
:39:27. > :39:30.He said, I could hit it with the side of the foot,
:39:31. > :39:33.Therefore, I am six times better than
:39:34. > :39:46.Not everybody liked him, because he could be arrogant
:39:47. > :39:49.and you would struggle to get him to change
:39:50. > :39:54.The first time I met him, when he was with Barcelona,
:39:55. > :39:56.he came into the room smoking, and took
:39:57. > :40:04.a couple of puffs and put it down on the ashtray and said,
:40:05. > :40:06."if Michels comes in, the manager," Rinus Michels,
:40:07. > :40:09.Those were the first words he said to me.
:40:10. > :40:12.Let me show you an advert you made a few years ago,
:40:13. > :40:13.encouraging people to kick the habit.
:40:14. > :40:39.How about that for control, with a cigarette box?
:40:40. > :40:43.I was lucky enough to work for him
:40:44. > :40:45.at Barcelona for a year, and he was the best player
:40:46. > :40:48.in training most of the time, even though he was obviously
:40:49. > :40:52.way past his sell-by date in terms of playing.
:40:53. > :40:53.He was extraordinary as a coach.
:40:54. > :40:56.even though, to be honest,
:40:57. > :40:58.there were only two foreign players allowed.
:40:59. > :41:05.And he clearly didn't want me there, he wanted me out.
:41:06. > :41:08.You can't do anything more than be the best of your era,
:41:09. > :41:16.Unlike Maradona and Pele, he never won a World Cup,
:41:17. > :41:18.but he didn't think that was important.
:41:19. > :41:22.What mattered was the process of the game.
:41:23. > :41:25.He said in 1974, we lost the final to Germany,
:41:26. > :41:27.but really, we won the World Cup, because everyone talked
:41:28. > :41:37.about our football and not Germany's football.
:41:38. > :41:43.That's pretty much always got time for. How can we not leave you
:41:44. > :41:49.without recreating the signature move from man himself? I'm joined by
:41:50. > :41:55.Danny McGee and Charlotte Lay, experts in what you may call the
:41:56. > :42:01.dark arts of football. I know that Cruyff meant a lot to your family,
:42:02. > :42:05.Charlotte. He was my dad's hero, so much so that my grandad bought my
:42:06. > :42:15.dad a colour TV for the 74 World Cup just so he could watch Cruyff. So he
:42:16. > :42:19.could see the infamous Cruyff turn. I'm going to show you, you pretend
:42:20. > :42:24.to shoot and then you go the opposite way, like that. It is
:42:25. > :42:30.effective but it isn't easy! Are you going to defend? I'm not going to
:42:31. > :42:33.take my off the ball. The ten should come across, and then turn the other
:42:34. > :42:41.way with the inside of your and motorway. Would you like to have a
:42:42. > :42:51.go? -- motor away. No, I wouldn't! I am left footed.
:42:52. > :42:57.The weather is turning much more changeable over the next couple of
:42:58. > :42:58.days after the recent settled weather. Good Friday will