:00:00. > :00:07.A Downing Street crisis meeting, but no plan to keep steel
:00:08. > :00:14.Government will do everything it can, working with the company,
:00:15. > :00:17.to try to secure the future of steel-making in Port Talbot
:00:18. > :00:24.We debate two very different solutions.
:00:25. > :00:26.A Newsnight exclusive, the illegal Jewish schools known
:00:27. > :00:29.to the Department of Education, where children receive little other
:00:30. > :00:37.I'm 25 now and my level of education is just
:00:38. > :00:43.Zaha Hadid, who died today, designed some of the world's most
:00:44. > :00:51.A longtime friend who was also a longtime client is here to look
:00:52. > :01:00.We have inherited quite a budget crunch from President Tramp.
:01:01. > :01:02.Could this be the moment Donald Trump got the idea
:01:03. > :01:12.We speak to The Simpsons writer who penned those prophetic words.
:01:13. > :01:20.Three days after Tata Steel dropped the bombshell that it's preparing
:01:21. > :01:22.to sell all its UK assets, including the country's biggest
:01:23. > :01:25.steel plant in Port Talbot, the government still looks
:01:26. > :01:28."Asleep at the wheel", was how the local MP
:01:29. > :01:34.It's fair to say there is no plan to save it.
:01:35. > :01:38.Today, after chairing an emergency meeting on the crisis,
:01:39. > :01:40.David Cameron insisted the government wasn't ruling
:01:41. > :01:43.anything out but didn't believe that nationalisation was the answer.
:01:44. > :01:45.But the Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron said
:01:46. > :01:48.that the Conservatives supported nationalising the banks,
:01:49. > :01:57.so they should consider the same thing for the steel industry.
:01:58. > :01:59.Clouds of uncertainty hangs over Port Talbot.
:02:00. > :02:02.The plant is still open but it is still losing around
:02:03. > :02:05.?1 million a day with no new buyer in sight.
:02:06. > :02:08.The crisis has not gone well for the government either.
:02:09. > :02:13.Labour has accused them of being missing in action and some
:02:14. > :02:23.The Business Secretary Sajid Javid has been on a ministerial
:02:24. > :02:26.David Cameron came back from holiday in Lanzarote
:02:27. > :02:31.This seems unlikely, particularly from a
:02:32. > :02:43.Despite sounding very much like he is ruling out
:02:44. > :02:46.I don't believe nationalisation is the right answer.
:02:47. > :02:49.What we want to do is secure a long-term future for Port Talbot.
:02:50. > :02:51.EU rules do not explicitly prohibit nationalisation.
:02:52. > :02:53.John McDonnell suggested it could be at least a temporary solution.
:02:54. > :02:57.If there is not a buyer coming forward quickly it will have to be
:02:58. > :02:59.nationalised to stabilise and then we look at the investment strategy
:03:00. > :03:04.In that way, buyers may emerge or we might want
:03:05. > :03:07.to keep a public stake, but we have to secure the industry
:03:08. > :03:10.in the short-term, to give us those options.
:03:11. > :03:13.Supporters of the idea say it is no different to bailing out
:03:14. > :03:17.the banks, but even the local Labour MP says even nationalisation is not
:03:18. > :03:25.I think if we are going to talk about
:03:26. > :03:28.nationalisation, we need to be clear that the devil is in the detail.
:03:29. > :03:32.We have to work out what would it cost, for how long?
:03:33. > :03:33.An open-ended wholesale nationalisation without
:03:34. > :03:35.taking exit strategy, without a clear plan
:03:36. > :03:39.for when you would be putting it back into the private
:03:40. > :03:41.sector would not be the right way to go.
:03:42. > :03:47.The ideal option, and the most unlikely given Tata's
:03:48. > :03:56.Actually Tata had announced recently in another part of their steel
:03:57. > :03:59.business in the UK that they were planning to close down and a buyer
:04:00. > :04:03.There was an announcement for part of their
:04:04. > :04:05.business in Scotland where a buyer has been found.
:04:06. > :04:14.It might require some sort of government support.
:04:15. > :04:16.At present, no realistic candidate has put themselves forward.
:04:17. > :04:19.It is also not clear how much the government can help.
:04:20. > :04:22.The government could structure a series of loans to prop
:04:23. > :04:25.But potentially this could fall foul of
:04:26. > :04:28.Earlier this year, the EU competition commissioner
:04:29. > :04:31.announced an investigation into 2 billion euros worth of state
:04:32. > :04:34.support that the Italian government gave to the struggling
:04:35. > :04:39.And those who argue that leaving the EU would free the government's
:04:40. > :04:44.It is almost unthinkable that Britain would not still be subject
:04:45. > :04:46.to European competition laws as part of a trade deal,
:04:47. > :04:54.The IPPR think tank has estimated that 15,000
:04:55. > :04:57.jobs at Tata UK would go and even more in the supply chain
:04:58. > :05:09.In the shadow of the steelworks on a sunny afternoon on Aberavon
:05:10. > :05:10.beach, residents are assessing
:05:11. > :05:13.I don't know if the government are going to do anything.
:05:14. > :05:16.If they are going to help even in the short-term,
:05:17. > :05:18.but it is 40,000 jobs just in Port Talbot
:05:19. > :05:25.It is a lot of people to try to find work in a short space of time
:05:26. > :05:29.Mr Cameron does not seem to be interested in saving the steel
:05:30. > :05:34.If they bail out the steelworks, you have other industries saying,
:05:35. > :05:48.You're going to get that question as well. I work for a small contracting
:05:49. > :05:53.company, if we didn't run our business properly, nobody would be
:05:54. > :05:56.thinking of trying to bail us out. Whatever happens next, there's a
:05:57. > :05:59.good chance that this part of Wales will be changing. At the moment, no
:06:00. > :06:08.one is quite sure how. I'm joined by the former Chancellor
:06:09. > :06:11.of the Exchequer Kenneth Clarke and Paul Mason, the economics
:06:12. > :06:20.journalist, formerly of Newsnight and now an author. Kenneth Clarke,
:06:21. > :06:25.you heard the man in Wales saying that the government doesn't seem to
:06:26. > :06:30.be interested in saving the plant. There isn't a plan, and the problem
:06:31. > :06:34.is that it isn't 15,000, not even the supply chain, it is the local
:06:35. > :06:39.communities that will be devastated if there is and a plan. Everyone
:06:40. > :06:43.will do whatever they can for the community. It is devastating and you
:06:44. > :06:49.have to think of what you can do in the interests of the thousands of
:06:50. > :06:52.people who are working there, a lot of people around that area, I know
:06:53. > :06:59.south Wales and I often drive past Port Talbot. Drive past it? It would
:07:00. > :07:05.be eight devastating blow if it goes but you do have two... You have to
:07:06. > :07:09.have a serious plan as to how exactly you are going to save
:07:10. > :07:14.whatever parts of the steel business have a long-term future. You can't
:07:15. > :07:21.just go for a knee jerk reaction of saying we will take it on, whatever
:07:22. > :07:25.it costs, the government losing ?1 million a day, putting billions of
:07:26. > :07:31.pounds in, when a good company like Tata can't see any future in doing
:07:32. > :07:36.that. Kenneth Clarke is right, the government can't just put in ?1
:07:37. > :07:39.million a day indefinitely. The point about having secretaries of
:07:40. > :07:43.state isn't to put yourself in a position where you need to take a
:07:44. > :07:48.knee jerk reaction. He has been in power for nearly a year. Over the
:07:49. > :07:53.last 48 hours we have seen what one man armed with a crazy private
:07:54. > :08:04.ideology that only he seems to be interested in and what Dot lot of --
:08:05. > :08:06.and what incompetence can do. Sajid Javid has destroyed it and it is
:08:07. > :08:15.certain to be nationalised. Kenneth you just heard him clutching at
:08:16. > :08:21.straws, maybe they will sell it to someone, tell us, secretary of
:08:22. > :08:28.state. Is it possible to sell it in bits, rather than a buyer, a global
:08:29. > :08:31.company? Possible, nobody wants in their right mind to nationalise
:08:32. > :08:36.something like this because it would take a long-term turnaround plan to
:08:37. > :08:40.get it back into the private sector. The problem is, Tata Steel is a
:08:41. > :08:44.collection of plants that do different things. You could sell
:08:45. > :08:50.them off, hand them to the workforce as mutuals separately, but most
:08:51. > :08:53.steel industries in the world operate at scale because they have
:08:54. > :09:00.to draw capital from other sources and simply taking Scunthorpe, or
:09:01. > :09:01.Port Talbot and turning them into a separate business, doesn't
:09:02. > :09:08.necessarily secure its long-term future. From a strategic point of
:09:09. > :09:13.view, can you imagine a United Kingdom without a steel industry, a
:09:14. > :09:16.major steel industry? I hope we have a United Kingdom which has a good,
:09:17. > :09:22.modern steel industry which is probably very much specialised, and
:09:23. > :09:29.fast products being produced at a rate which is competitive. It makes
:09:30. > :09:34.me nostalgic to hear 1960s leftism back in fashion, I heard this went I
:09:35. > :09:37.was a young man. It was a catastrophe and we were closing
:09:38. > :09:42.steel plants even when we had a nationalised British steel. Some of
:09:43. > :09:48.these plants obviously have a future. We have sold some recently.
:09:49. > :09:52.Why isn't there a buyer for these ones? Because is losing ?1 million a
:09:53. > :09:56.day and there is a worldwide collapse in commodity prices. There
:09:57. > :10:02.is a surplus capacity in the Far East, but all over Europe and what
:10:03. > :10:11.you can't do is to say, we are going to put, however much it takes our
:10:12. > :10:15.steel industry. Let's come back to what Ken Clarke said, we don't know
:10:16. > :10:21.it is losing ?1 million a day, a week, in what sector, we need to
:10:22. > :10:26.know. There is a reporter, McKenzie, Stephen Kinnock, the union community
:10:27. > :10:31.took a long time to draw up and take it to Mumbai and Tata said it isn't
:10:32. > :10:36.good enough. How do you respond to the accusation that it is 60s
:10:37. > :10:41.leftism? It was a disaster before. These industries have gone anyway.
:10:42. > :10:45.It is all very well dissing nationalisation until the banking
:10:46. > :10:48.system collapses, half of the banking system in this country and
:10:49. > :10:54.Europe had to be nationalised. Radical leftism, the kind you heard
:10:55. > :10:57.from John McDonnell isn't obsessed with nationalisation, it's about
:10:58. > :11:02.shaping the market, understanding we are a national market in a global
:11:03. > :11:08.space and what companies want is long-term predictability. Sajid
:11:09. > :11:10.Javid cannot give Tata or anybody else long-term predictability
:11:11. > :11:16.because he doesn't believe in the industry. Tim Farron mentioned this
:11:17. > :11:19.as well, if the Conservatives supported nationalising the banks,
:11:20. > :11:24.which they did, what is different about nationalising steel, even
:11:25. > :11:27.taking it short-term? The banks had to be nationalised because if you
:11:28. > :11:33.don't have a banking system, the rest of the economy collapses. So it
:11:34. > :11:41.is OK for Port Talbot to collapse? We closed things with consequences
:11:42. > :11:45.for the committee but we didn't just read in. If you're looking for a
:11:46. > :11:50.future for that part of British steel which has a future, you need
:11:51. > :11:54.people who know something about the steel industry, who look at the
:11:55. > :11:59.market and decide if it has a future. What about the long game? We
:12:00. > :12:03.know that China is nationalised and that production will go down. Take
:12:04. > :12:08.the long view that maybe we have to bail out for a period of time, and
:12:09. > :12:12.deal with European Union rules, but losing it now would mean losing it
:12:13. > :12:17.for ever? China sets out five-year plans and what they have done is to
:12:18. > :12:19.say that 1.5 million people are going to lose their jobs as they
:12:20. > :12:26.make closures of the plants which they don't have any -- don't think
:12:27. > :12:31.have any future and they are looking for talented, a consumer -based
:12:32. > :12:34.economy to build their future. The real way of looking after
:12:35. > :12:40.communities is to actually support and help those who have a prospect
:12:41. > :12:46.of being able to be a success, provide a good living for a
:12:47. > :12:50.generation to come. If you get a steel company who wants to buy parts
:12:51. > :12:54.of this plant, they will have done a proper study of it, it won't be
:12:55. > :12:59.based on ideology. They will have decided how they can get costs under
:13:00. > :13:04.control, what products have a future and the market. We had Rolls-Royce,
:13:05. > :13:09.money was put in, the government has put money into different things,
:13:10. > :13:14.even at a loss for a while. Do you, even from the mood music from David
:13:15. > :13:18.Cameron, refused to rule out the possibility that he will
:13:19. > :13:23.nationalise? He will have two nationalise some or all of those
:13:24. > :13:27.plants. If there is one party looks after the interests of the Chinese
:13:28. > :13:31.steelworker it is the Conservatives who have wasted nothing in vetoing
:13:32. > :13:35.the tariffs that Europe wanted to put on the Chinese steel that was
:13:36. > :13:42.dumped and we know from Tata's statements to the press was the
:13:43. > :13:46."Last straw" in convincing them that the British government had no belief
:13:47. > :13:52.in steel. We need a long-term plan, a government that believes in
:13:53. > :13:57.intervening to save strategic industries and Sajid Javid does not
:13:58. > :14:01.believe in the industry. We put tariffs on China where they are
:14:02. > :14:05.dumping, we have agreed European tariffs but we can't go in for a
:14:06. > :14:09.tariff war. There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country
:14:10. > :14:15.which may benefit if we build up our own exports to China. And we are
:14:16. > :14:21.building up our exports to China. A great market for the future. To
:14:22. > :14:24.start engaging in a tariff war with China, and excluding products and
:14:25. > :14:29.thinking that they won't retaliate and take anything exclude us from
:14:30. > :14:35.China, is going back to the 1930s, even older and nonsense stuff. None
:14:36. > :14:40.of these proposals being put forward had anything to deal with the real
:14:41. > :14:45.problem, can someone who runs the steel business identified this
:14:46. > :14:49.business, or parts of it and identify an investment plan and put
:14:50. > :14:51.it back on its feet? There is no ideological or political solution.
:14:52. > :14:56.The government has no alternative. The law in England says that schools
:14:57. > :14:59.have to offer a broad education. Most children are taught
:15:00. > :15:07.subjects including English, maths, science, geography
:15:08. > :15:09.and history, but not all children. A small private community of strict
:15:10. > :15:13.orthodox Jews in London known as the Haredi Jews, who have
:15:14. > :15:15.withdrawn from some modern secular culture,
:15:16. > :15:17.are running at least a dozen illegal consists almost entirely
:15:18. > :15:20.of religious studies. Newsnight has discovered that some
:15:21. > :15:23.of these secretive illegal schools are registered with the Charities
:15:24. > :15:25.Commission simply as charities, We spoke to some former pupils
:15:26. > :15:33.of these illegal schools who feel that their lives have been ruined
:15:34. > :15:36.by a lack of proper education. Chris Cook has this exclusive
:15:37. > :15:42.report. I am very unhappy with
:15:43. > :15:45.the education I received. I have a distorted
:15:46. > :15:49.view of the world. I am 25 now and my level
:15:50. > :15:52.of education is just This is one of Britain's quietest
:15:53. > :16:01.and most private communities, yet, despite keeping itself
:16:02. > :16:05.to itself, it is getting unwanted 30,000 Haredi Jews, followers
:16:06. > :16:12.of a variety of strict Orthodox traditions, live around
:16:13. > :16:14.here in Stamford Hill, The authorities are worried
:16:15. > :16:24.about some of their private boys' schools which, contrary to the law,
:16:25. > :16:26.are not registered. Current and former community members
:16:27. > :16:31.estimate there are between a dozen and 20 significantly sized illegal
:16:32. > :16:34.schools that are uninspected, and offer a narrow syllabus,
:16:35. > :16:41.teaching up to 1000 boys. Now one of the oldest
:16:42. > :16:44.principles about how England regulates its schools is that
:16:45. > :16:46.parents should have the right have the right to educate
:16:47. > :16:48.their own children according A second principle is no child
:16:49. > :16:54.should be given an education so narrow they can't do
:16:55. > :16:57.what they would like to do in adulthood, and sometimes
:16:58. > :16:59.in religious communities, whether Muslim, Christian
:17:00. > :17:02.or here in Stamford Hill, We met several former pupils
:17:03. > :17:12.who have left the community and feel their education
:17:13. > :17:14.in the illegal schools was poor. They are anonymous because their
:17:15. > :17:17.families would be upset by their participation
:17:18. > :17:21.in this report. Despite growing up in London,
:17:22. > :17:24.English is a second language Their words are spoken by actors
:17:25. > :17:31.with similar accents. Basically, just imagine a school
:17:32. > :17:34.of 200, 300 years ago. We only used Yiddish
:17:35. > :17:42.at home and school. I feel my whole childhood has
:17:43. > :17:48.been taken away from me. Haredi parents tend to educate
:17:49. > :17:52.their girls in relatively mainstream schools, but lots want a religious
:17:53. > :18:02.education in Yiddish for their boys. They want a primary education before
:18:03. > :18:05.the age of 13 with only an hour We weren't taught any
:18:06. > :18:10.geography because why? If we stay in this enclave
:18:11. > :18:17.all of our lives, why Any other subjects other
:18:18. > :18:23.than English and maths, But even English and maths was only
:18:24. > :18:27.the very minimum for After the age of 13 or so,
:18:28. > :18:34.some parents want an almost exclusively religious education
:18:35. > :18:35.in so-called yeshivas Now some of these schools
:18:36. > :18:41.are registered but community members defend the right of schools
:18:42. > :18:45.to remain unregistered. They fear the authorities will not
:18:46. > :18:47.respect their curriculum choices The authorities are dedicated
:18:48. > :18:53.to closing the illegal schools down but still,
:18:54. > :18:56.we found them pretty easily. It is late morning and we
:18:57. > :19:00.are in Stamford Hill. We have been here since 6am and have
:19:01. > :19:03.been doing roughly what the council does when they hear a report
:19:04. > :19:07.of a suspected illegal school. They turn up and watch to see
:19:08. > :19:10.if young boys are turning up Sure enough, between 6am and 8am,
:19:11. > :19:17.we saw boys turn up for their school day at around four sites
:19:18. > :19:19.around Stamford Hill, none of whom are registered
:19:20. > :19:21.with the Department We have since found that
:19:22. > :19:28.whistle-blowers have notified the DfE about all four
:19:29. > :19:33.of those schools. But we learned when they
:19:34. > :19:35.investigated one of them, they found only adults
:19:36. > :19:36.learning there. So to check on what we saw,
:19:37. > :19:40.we got a Yiddish speaker to ring that unregistered yeshiva, posing
:19:41. > :19:45.as a parent of a 13-year-old boy. Our caller asked when
:19:46. > :19:56.the school day started. We begin
:19:57. > :19:58.the day at morning prayer. However there is probably
:19:59. > :20:00.a dawn framework for those And those who want to come,
:20:01. > :20:04.when did they start? I'm not here in the morning
:20:05. > :20:07.so I don't know. So when is morning
:20:08. > :20:09.prayer, eight, 8:30am? And then in the evening,
:20:10. > :20:13.the students are there until 9pm? How many, the junior yeshiva
:20:14. > :20:27.is reasonably big nowadays, When asked what was on the syllabus
:20:28. > :20:40.the school listed no secular And there is only one
:20:41. > :20:46.place at this school, which is registered
:20:47. > :20:48.with the Charities Commission, so they get tax advantages,
:20:49. > :20:50.something the British Humanist Association found
:20:51. > :20:52.in other cases too. By being allowed to register
:20:53. > :20:54.as charities, these schools are being given access to tax
:20:55. > :20:57.and other financial benefits that supplements the hundreds
:20:58. > :20:59.of thousands of pounds of money That means this is not just a matter
:21:00. > :21:05.for the Department in a regulatory sense to sort out, it also
:21:06. > :21:08.is a serious matter for the Charity We have been asked not to reveal
:21:09. > :21:11.the schools' locations Being unregistered puts these
:21:12. > :21:17.schools outside child protection processes or normal health
:21:18. > :21:22.and safety oversight. The school we rang up is housed
:21:23. > :21:26.in a building that failed a fire brigade fire safety
:21:27. > :21:27.inspection last year. The critical question however
:21:28. > :21:30.is about whether parents should be able to ask for such a narrow
:21:31. > :21:36.education for their own children. I am angry but the thing is I don't
:21:37. > :21:40.know who to address that anger at. Because my parents were
:21:41. > :21:42.brainwashed to live like this. They believe this is the lifestyle
:21:43. > :21:52.they need to live. So they did not do it to harm me
:21:53. > :21:56.so I can't hate them for that. Why do I need at this age to do
:21:57. > :22:01.things I should have done ten, It is stopping me from getting
:22:02. > :22:06.opportunities someone else my age can get just because I have
:22:07. > :22:09.got no qualifications, and that is why I am
:22:10. > :22:13.struggling now with my job. Their parents and teachers gave them
:22:14. > :22:16.a highly intellectual, very sophisticated education
:22:17. > :22:17.for the life they planned They have rejected that and gone off
:22:18. > :22:26.into the world outside. So they have to start again,
:22:27. > :22:29.they have to acquire an education And this headteacher
:22:30. > :22:38.of a registered Haredi school feels his
:22:39. > :22:44.education was excellent. My experience of the yeshiva,
:22:45. > :22:46.which was unregistered, I attended a yeshiva from the age
:22:47. > :22:56.of 14 and I spent the majority Now you should know that these
:22:57. > :23:00.studies are challenging I feel, and I know that when I went,
:23:01. > :23:07.the days I spent in the yeshiva and years I spent, I have gained
:23:08. > :23:10.the vital skills of logical The yeshiva has put great emphasis
:23:11. > :23:15.on building confidence through public speaking
:23:16. > :23:22.or leading prayers. Now defenders of the community
:23:23. > :23:24.insist boys can retrain for life outside Stamford Hill
:23:25. > :23:34.if that is what they want. I spent a lot of time learning
:23:35. > :23:37.equations for physics. Have you ever use that
:23:38. > :23:39.since she left school? And you are a successful journalist
:23:40. > :23:43.and television reporter. If I wanted to study
:23:44. > :23:45.physics at university Yes but you did not know that
:23:46. > :23:49.until you made your decision Yes, but I had the option to study
:23:50. > :23:54.physics at University because I had All Jewish children have the option
:23:55. > :23:58.of studying any subject When you talk about an adult of 17,
:23:59. > :24:07.18, 19, the parents have no control over the child, the child or young
:24:08. > :24:09.adult makes their decision The headteacher thinks
:24:10. > :24:14.that the Haredi primaries have been getting better,
:24:15. > :24:16.which is the key to They were let down in a primary
:24:17. > :24:29.school system up to the age of Year 9 where the provision of secular
:24:30. > :24:31.studies was not good enough. And I said we are currently doing
:24:32. > :24:34.a huge amount to improve the standards of secular education
:24:35. > :24:37.and I am not convinced that a fundamental change
:24:38. > :24:39.to the structure of the education These schools are unlike the many
:24:40. > :24:50.mainstream Jewish faith schools in England that offer a broad
:24:51. > :24:52.curriculum but lots of Haredi parents use illegal schools
:24:53. > :24:55.precisely because they don't want a broad curriculum and they fear
:24:56. > :24:57.that if the illegal schools were registered, they would need
:24:58. > :25:00.to become less specialised, or even forced to close
:25:01. > :25:13.by the Department for Education. We are joined by the President but
:25:14. > :25:19.first Chris Cooke is here and you have statements from various bodies
:25:20. > :25:28.after the film. Starting with the Department for Education, the
:25:29. > :25:32.ultimate regulator. They say unregistered schools are illegal and
:25:33. > :25:36.unsafe and they are taking direct action to protect children and it
:25:37. > :25:42.sounds similar to the Ofsted statement to note that Ofsted
:25:43. > :25:46.established a task force to investigate unregistered schools and
:25:47. > :25:50.since November the Chief inspector has commissioned the inspection of
:25:51. > :25:55.eight schools seven of which they have close. The charities commission
:25:56. > :26:00.make an appearance and they say that charities must comply with the
:26:01. > :26:05.charity rules and any other regulators' rules and will assess
:26:06. > :26:12.information and liaise with the Department for Education if
:26:13. > :26:16.necessary. What do you make of this. It was a fair film and highlighted
:26:17. > :26:20.how some schools operate in an illegal environment where they
:26:21. > :26:24.present a terrible health and safety fears to the children. I do not
:26:25. > :26:32.condone lawbreaking. Why do you think a number, a substantial number
:26:33. > :26:35.of Haredi parents take the step of sending children to unregistered
:26:36. > :26:41.schools? Because they want the children to have what is a
:26:42. > :26:45.curriculum which to the mainstream part of the Jewish community and
:26:46. > :26:52.most people in this country appears restricted and narrow. Because they
:26:53. > :26:55.are taught what the parents believed to be essential Jewish values and
:26:56. > :27:03.give them what they regard as the priorities of an intensive Jewish
:27:04. > :27:07.education in biblical texts. The schools are essentially conservative
:27:08. > :27:12.and they are not extremists. No child from these schools will ever
:27:13. > :27:15.come out and do any violent act, they are respectful and well
:27:16. > :27:20.mannered children. But they are not prepared for the outside world. The
:27:21. > :27:25.young man said he had the education of a ten, 11-year-old. Do you think
:27:26. > :27:31.parents have the right to prevent children from having a rounded
:27:32. > :27:35.education? Parents need to comply with the law, which should be
:27:36. > :27:39.upheld, which is there should be a National Curriculum that prepares
:27:40. > :27:42.children of all faiths for life in the outside world. There are Haredi
:27:43. > :27:48.schools that are registered and comply with the curriculum will stop
:27:49. > :27:53.the majority of Haredi schools are high performing schools. You are
:27:54. > :27:59.talking of a very small, narrow fringe of schools. 1000 children,
:28:00. > :28:06.unfortunately. That is an estimate, there could be hundreds of children
:28:07. > :28:11.at these schools. Why do you think that neither Ofsted and the
:28:12. > :28:16.Department for Education do not go into these buildings that could be
:28:17. > :28:22.condemned, and shut them down? If you shut them now, what happens to
:28:23. > :28:25.the children, where did they go? There are not necessarily places in
:28:26. > :28:31.other schools in Hackney for them to go to. A better policy must be for
:28:32. > :28:35.public bodies to work with communities and schools, as we saw
:28:36. > :28:40.from the report, the head teacher, show the communities there is a
:28:41. > :28:44.better way forward. We have been in too many Haredi schools, to discuss
:28:45. > :28:51.with them difficult subjects they have not yet been prepared to work
:28:52. > :28:55.out how to convey to the children. It has to be a sensitive discussion
:28:56. > :28:59.to bring the schools forward rather than drive them somewhere
:29:00. > :29:03.underground. Do you think the approach of Ofsted towards faith
:29:04. > :29:08.schools is wanting when it comes to Haredi schools? I think it is. I do
:29:09. > :29:13.not think there has been a clear understanding of the community's
:29:14. > :29:18.traditions and they have gone in heavy-handed. Catholic schools,
:29:19. > :29:23.Kristian schools, the Jewish schools, it is not just Haredi
:29:24. > :29:26.schools, we have had inspectors go to primary schools and ask young
:29:27. > :29:31.children if they have a boy or girl friends and the children do not
:29:32. > :29:36.understand the question at that age. All sorts of cultural assumptions by
:29:37. > :29:40.the inspectors without sensitivity to the culture of the communities.
:29:41. > :29:49.I'm interested in the idea that for parents, you heard the professor
:29:50. > :29:53.saying that you can get an education after but in society, the way it is
:29:54. > :29:57.today, with jobs and so forth, it is virtually impossible to go from
:29:58. > :30:03.being an educated nine, ten-year-old, to being 25 and
:30:04. > :30:07.getting a job in the steel industry, physics, and it means a lot of life
:30:08. > :30:11.isn't open to them. You would be surprised how quickly children who
:30:12. > :30:17.may have had a particularly narrow education until the age of 16, after
:30:18. > :30:23.which they can learn whenever they like, can quickly adapt, but I agree
:30:24. > :30:26.with you, it is really important that all of our children can be
:30:27. > :30:30.prepared for the life outside. Thank you for joining us.
:30:31. > :30:36.Dame Zaha Hadid, who died today at the age of 65,
:30:37. > :30:40.created some of the world's greatest and most imaginative architecture,
:30:41. > :30:50.from the Vitra Fire Station in Germany to the London Aquatic
:30:51. > :30:52.Centre, from the Maxxi Museum of 21st Century Arts in Rome
:30:53. > :30:54.to the the intimate Maggie's Cancer Care Centre
:30:55. > :30:57.in Kirkcaldy in Fife, which was her very first building
:30:58. > :31:03.The Iraqi-British architect was famous for creating exaggerated
:31:04. > :31:06.curves and elongated angles, and personally was very
:31:07. > :31:14.She once said that women are always told they won't make it.
:31:15. > :31:23.She won the Pritzker Arhcitecture Prize, the Stirling Prize, twice,
:31:24. > :31:38.and last year was the first woman to win the Riba Gold Award.
:31:39. > :31:50.Julia Peyton-Jones new Zaha Hadid very well because she was a trustee
:31:51. > :31:56.at the Serpentine Gallery. For you, of course, Zaha Hadid was a good
:31:57. > :32:01.friend but how did you first come to work with her when she was a
:32:02. > :32:10.trustee? Our former chairman invited her to join the board and Zaha was
:32:11. > :32:15.famous for not getting up early. She only attended two trustee meetings
:32:16. > :32:22.although she was very active side of them. Peter turned to me in one
:32:23. > :32:24.meeting and asked me whether we should talk about the mention a
:32:25. > :32:33.ball, and then we talked about charges which the board knew that I
:32:34. > :32:40.was against -- unmentionable. She was an amazing visionary and
:32:41. > :32:48.architect and also trustee. I asked her to do the Fed up of a temporary
:32:49. > :32:55.shop while we were renovating the Serpentine Gallery and she arrived
:32:56. > :32:59.with Patrik Schumacher and another member of staff and they took up so
:33:00. > :33:04.much room there was no room for anybody else. She was the first
:33:05. > :33:09.architect to design your annual summer pavilion. I think we can see
:33:10. > :33:13.that now. She was the first architect, that is now an
:33:14. > :33:18.established tradition. What did she bring to the Serpentine with that
:33:19. > :33:22.building? At the time it was an extraordinary commission. It was
:33:23. > :33:33.only going to be up for one night. It was to celebrate our 30th
:33:34. > :33:41.anniversary. We asked her to design a tented structure for the same
:33:42. > :33:44.budget as for another one and she gazed with it in the same
:33:45. > :33:49.enthusiastic way. It was so remarkably successful that Chris
:33:50. > :33:54.Smith, the distinguished Secretary of State for culture, media and
:33:55. > :33:57.sport, kept it up. The last commissioner for you, the building
:33:58. > :34:02.at the Serpentine which is only building in central London. Yes, we
:34:03. > :34:07.decided to take over the former ammunition and thought, 1805, and it
:34:08. > :34:11.was a very complicated process to secure the rights to do this from
:34:12. > :34:17.the Royal Parks. We asked her to design it. She was charming to them,
:34:18. > :34:21.I imagine? She took it on with enormous enthusiasm and she did a
:34:22. > :34:28.visionary design. As an architect, what do you think was what made her
:34:29. > :34:34.so special? I think her fearlessness, the fact that she had
:34:35. > :34:37.extraordinary restless energy, the fact that everything she did was
:34:38. > :34:42.predicated on drawing and painting, that was the heart of her practice.
:34:43. > :34:49.And the fact that she became ever more confident, ambitious, grand and
:34:50. > :34:54.extraordinary in the best possible way. She is built all over the
:34:55. > :34:58.world. But for us, she was never afraid to do projects that were
:34:59. > :35:04.small. Whilst concurrently doing the most ambitious. For you and her,
:35:05. > :35:10.what do you think is her most loved building that she has done, beyond
:35:11. > :35:17.the Serpentine? Two, the first is the Vitra Fire Station and the other
:35:18. > :35:22.is the Maxxi. Maxxi in Rome. It is an extraordinary building, which is
:35:23. > :35:26.a series of reveals. Wherever you go you have another perspective of the
:35:27. > :35:32.building and the City. Finally, famously and very difficult for her,
:35:33. > :35:36.Thailand pulled out of the football stadium and every country is now
:35:37. > :35:40.going to wish they had one of the buildings. This is difficult to say
:35:41. > :35:43.but all I can say is that we feel very privileged to have worked with
:35:44. > :35:46.her and long may she reign. Thank you for joining us.
:35:47. > :35:49.Another day of self-generated controversy for Donald Trump.
:35:50. > :35:54.This time, a man who is spending millions of his own money in his bid
:35:55. > :35:57.to be US president, but no need for a big publicity budget,
:35:58. > :36:00.has withdrawn his proposal, made just hours ago,
:36:01. > :36:02.that women who have abortions should face some form of punishment
:36:03. > :36:07.When people come to write the history books about Donald Trump
:36:08. > :36:09.and the presidency, whichever way it goes,
:36:10. > :36:11.they may search for the origins of the idea.
:36:12. > :36:17.As you know, we've inherited a Budget crunch from President
:36:18. > :36:29.Well, remember when the last administration decided to invest
:36:30. > :36:37.That was an episode of The Simpsons from the year 2000.
:36:38. > :36:40.The writer of that episode Dan Greaney said he wrote it
:36:41. > :36:42.because it was a vision of America going insane.
:36:43. > :36:58.This is all you're doing, then? Oh, now I understand why my boss let me
:36:59. > :37:04.come on this interview! I am the patsy, the fall guy! You are the one
:37:05. > :37:09.who sets Donald Trump on this path. No, no. If you like something in the
:37:10. > :37:13.script, I wrote it, but if you don't, it is a very collaborative
:37:14. > :37:22.process, a lot of people involved! The show runner has the final say.
:37:23. > :37:26.Team sport. But tell me, did Donald Trump, to your knowledge, ever see
:37:27. > :37:29.or comment on that episode of the Simpsons? I don't think he has ever
:37:30. > :37:36.commented on it and I certainly don't know if he's seen it. Do you
:37:37. > :37:42.think that people laughed at Donald Trump for too long? I think
:37:43. > :37:47.President Obama might have laughed at it for too long. It seemed to me
:37:48. > :37:54.that at the roast about two years ago when Obama was talking and Trump
:37:55. > :37:57.got really steamed and if there was the inception moment, that might
:37:58. > :38:06.have been it. Let us play this at the doorstep of the president. --
:38:07. > :38:09.lay this. The Simpsons have returned to the subject of Donald Trump since
:38:10. > :38:14.he put his hat in the ring. As a comedy writer, Donald Trump is such
:38:15. > :38:21.a controversialist, so is it hard as a comedy writer to best it? He has
:38:22. > :38:28.become hard to write about. The Simpsons is a fine show -- fun show
:38:29. > :38:32.and we want people to enjoy it and in the old days, Donald Trump was
:38:33. > :38:35.very consistent, over the top and kind of lovable, so you could have
:38:36. > :38:40.fun with him and even up to his announcement, going down the
:38:41. > :38:47.escalator in this strange tableau, we were able to have an affectionate
:38:48. > :38:51.and good mannered time with it but then he started talking. I don't
:38:52. > :38:54.know what to do with the person he is revealing himself to be at this
:38:55. > :38:59.point in his life, and it isn't much fun. The person he is revealing
:39:00. > :39:04.himself to be is a person that a very substantial number of Americans
:39:05. > :39:10.seem to identify with. This isn't a joke candidacy. Not at all. I think
:39:11. > :39:15.Donald Trump is reflecting that there is something wrong in the
:39:16. > :39:20.American body politic. The American people are a bit sick of what is
:39:21. > :39:27.going on and Donald Trump is kind of what they have coughed up, you know.
:39:28. > :39:30.That's maybe why he is orange! Well... The Simpsons have a track
:39:31. > :39:35.record of predicting things that may happen and I wonder if you have any
:39:36. > :39:40.plans to return to the Trump character or to allude to him in
:39:41. > :39:47.some way in the run-up to November? You know, the show said that there
:39:48. > :39:51.was a president Trump and we didn't say there was a president Donald
:39:52. > :39:55.Trump. It is entirely possible that we are talking about a future Trump
:39:56. > :40:03.presidency of perhaps a more reasonable and grounded Trump, such
:40:04. > :40:08.as Ivanka which may not be as much of a good survey as a Donald Trump
:40:09. > :40:13.presidency. He fails and they pick up the Mandalay to run. Is this
:40:14. > :40:21.something that has been discussed in meetings, the idea that Ivanka may
:40:22. > :40:24.be a possible candidate? It hasn't Yarde
:40:25. > :40:32.it hasn't come up and we are hesitant to wait any deeper into the
:40:33. > :40:37.subject. Our production schedule doesn't allow us to get an episode
:40:38. > :40:41.out before he loses the election. We talk about it in the room and maybe
:40:42. > :40:47.we will do another short promo, something like that. But I wouldn't
:40:48. > :40:50.rule out a Trump presidency but a Donald Trump presidency is very
:40:51. > :40:54.unlikely. So you are saying he's going to lose the presidency in your
:40:55. > :41:02.view, but the Simpsons is a show which turned out surprises? I could
:41:03. > :41:08.be wrong. I am Ronnie Lott -- I am wrong way lot but right now the mass
:41:09. > :41:13.Dyer maths does not look good for him. If we go on the assumption that
:41:14. > :41:16.the show is right, I'm going with the possibility that a different
:41:17. > :41:23.Trump is elected, a gentler and smarter Trump, Ivanka, vote Ivanka.
:41:24. > :41:26.Thank you for joining us. I'm afraid that's all we have time for. From
:41:27. > :41:43.here, good night. Another cold one, certainly across
:41:44. > :41:45.England and Wales, some frost first thing but Scotland and Northern
:41:46. > :41:50.Ireland, the weather is changing, wet day in Northern Ireland and the
:41:51. > :41:54.West of Scotland, creeping across. Some rain in north-west England and
:41:55. > :41:58.Wales but many will stay dry. Far from dry in Northern Ireland,
:41:59. > :42:02.breezy, wet and cold, the same in western Scotland. The rain getting
:42:03. > :42:06.into the West Coast although the Moray Firth may stay dry.
:42:07. > :42:07.Temperatures