:00:00. > :00:08.Tax avoidance, corruption and money laundering of epic proportions...
:00:09. > :00:12.As the world wakes up to the enormity of the revelations
:00:13. > :00:14.in the Panama Papers, we'll ask why the world has failed
:00:15. > :00:20.What this confirms is that if you're in a position,
:00:21. > :00:23.in an official position, a political position,
:00:24. > :00:27.which allows you to earn a bit of gravy on the side
:00:28. > :00:31.through your position of influence, then it's very tempting to do so.
:00:32. > :00:35.Could there ever be a justification for this kind of behaviour?
:00:36. > :00:46.Also tonight: The Brits living in the EU.
:00:47. > :00:48.What do the ex-pats in Spain make of a possible Brexit?
:00:49. > :00:53.Because, whether it's right or wrong, I still
:00:54. > :00:55.believe that the UK is the best place in the world.
:00:56. > :01:01.And we talk to best selling American author Jessica Knoll,
:01:02. > :01:04.who has revealed - after a year of denials -
:01:05. > :01:06.that her thriller, Luckiest Girl Alive,
:01:07. > :01:09.about a teenager who has gang raped by her classmates,
:01:10. > :01:23.Money laundering, sanctions dodging and tax avoidance,
:01:24. > :01:26.not, you would automatically think, the behaviour of heads of state...
:01:27. > :01:33.The leak of 11 million documents from the Panamanian law firm
:01:34. > :01:36.Mossack Fonseca show that the company, who has never been
:01:37. > :01:38.charged with criminal wrongdoing, has helped some current
:01:39. > :01:46.or former heads of state, including Ukraine's President,
:01:47. > :01:48.and Iceland's Prime Minister and individuals linked to leaders
:01:49. > :01:51.such as Vladimir Putin and China's President Xi Jinping,
:01:52. > :01:52.find tax havens to hide their wealth.
:01:53. > :01:55.Simon Cox has been reporting on the story and joins me now.
:01:56. > :02:00.There was a welter of information last night and today about huge
:02:01. > :02:04.amounts of money being hidden away. What has happened since? It is one
:02:05. > :02:08.of those amazing stories where each hour there is a new revelation. I
:02:09. > :02:15.suppose one of the most significant today was about the relatives of
:02:16. > :02:21.Chinese leadership who had relations with Mossack Fonseca. Embarrassing
:02:22. > :02:25.for them because they made a big crackdown on corruption. And also
:02:26. > :02:29.Fifa, their lawyer, connected to their ethics committee, who has been
:02:30. > :02:34.helping these offshore companies. It is interesting seeing the numbers
:02:35. > :02:38.they are coming up with. Germany, 1000 people in the documents,
:02:39. > :02:42.Australia, 800 people in the documents. And HMRC saying they
:02:43. > :02:46.would like to get their hands on and see what is in those 11 million
:02:47. > :02:53.documents. So much more presumably still to come out. Now we will look
:02:54. > :02:56.it sanctions busting, what is happening tomorrow? We are talking
:02:57. > :03:01.about tax evasion, money-laundering, but what we have looked at is
:03:02. > :03:08.individuals and companies subject to sanctions who were clients of
:03:09. > :03:13.Mossack Fonseca. We looked at Syria, a really interesting tale about
:03:14. > :03:19.North Korea involving a bank and a British banker. Sanctions busting
:03:20. > :03:22.for North Korea? There was a company in North Korea and they were subject
:03:23. > :03:26.to sanctions and a British banker was involved in that company. A
:03:27. > :03:30.serious sanction, but it ended up it was sanctioned because it was linked
:03:31. > :03:35.to a bank providing funding for North Korea's nuclear weapons
:03:36. > :03:36.programme. Really serious. Thank you very much, Simon.
:03:37. > :03:39.Politicians of all stripes across Europe and the US have long
:03:40. > :03:43.pledged to crack down on tax havens - but the Panama Papers show that
:03:44. > :03:46.Will these latest revelations finally provide the impetus
:03:47. > :03:56.Here's our Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban.
:03:57. > :04:03.One law firm, so many destinations, from the Alps to the Caribbean,
:04:04. > :04:11.places where offshore companies are used to hide wealth on a vast scale.
:04:12. > :04:19.And Panama law firm, Mossack Fonseca, is just a part of that. Yet
:04:20. > :04:23.it's hacked files show 143 some time politicians and officials from
:04:24. > :04:27.around the world among its clients. What chance then the tax haven
:04:28. > :04:33.reformer, when so many leaders are at it? I think the scale is
:04:34. > :04:38.enormous. I think what this confirms is if you are in a position, an
:04:39. > :04:42.official position, a political position, which allows you to earn a
:04:43. > :04:47.bit of gravy on the side through your position of influence, then it
:04:48. > :04:53.is very tempting to do so. Many remember the G8 Summit almost three
:04:54. > :04:58.years ago, only for this frosty Obama, Putin encounter. Several of
:04:59. > :05:01.the Russian President's close friends emerge in the Panama Papers,
:05:02. > :05:08.yet he and the other members signed up to the host agenda on the fight
:05:09. > :05:12.against offshore tax dodging. At the G8 I will push the international
:05:13. > :05:17.agreements to fight the scourge of tax evasion and aggressive tax
:05:18. > :05:20.avoidance. That means automatic exchange of information between our
:05:21. > :05:25.tax authorities, so those who want to evade taxes have nowhere to hide.
:05:26. > :05:30.On today's evidence there are all too many places to hide, and the
:05:31. > :05:36.UK's record of prosecuting successfully since 2010 just 11
:05:37. > :05:40.cases of offshore tax evasion is hardly impressive. We as a committee
:05:41. > :05:44.feel there should be more prosecutions to be a deterrent to
:05:45. > :05:47.people, to prove to the good taxpayer and the taxpayer and think
:05:48. > :05:51.they will get away with it, that if you are evade tax you will be
:05:52. > :05:57.prosecuted on possibly go to prison and if you aggressively avoid it,
:05:58. > :06:00.you will be caught. The American pressure group researches offshore
:06:01. > :06:05.financial activity and its index puts Switzerland top. The Cayman
:06:06. > :06:11.Islands coming fifth, with Panama at 13th, just ahead of the UK. But if
:06:12. > :06:16.you add the Cayman Islands and other overseas Territories to the British
:06:17. > :06:19.figure, it would come top. The Prime Minister has talked the talk and he
:06:20. > :06:23.has to prove he will walk the walk. He has a summit coming up in May
:06:24. > :06:28.looking at corruption. An ideal opportunity for him to take the
:06:29. > :06:31.issue on and try to tackle international tax havens with other
:06:32. > :06:37.countries. Also, the British government could go further, the tax
:06:38. > :06:41.transparency very easily by insisting companies publish their
:06:42. > :06:46.information in their companies house returns. From Panama to the Cayman
:06:47. > :06:50.Islands, allowing foreign companies to base themselves somewhere without
:06:51. > :06:56.tying them up with too much regulation has long been a way of
:06:57. > :07:01.generating revenue. But now the US is using its financial clout to
:07:02. > :07:05.impose foreign account compliance rural is on many smaller countries.
:07:06. > :07:10.Over the last few years the Americans have taken a number of
:07:11. > :07:13.steps, including the imposition of a law that requires offshore banks to
:07:14. > :07:18.report to the American authorities what money they are holding for US
:07:19. > :07:21.citizens, and they have also taken action against Fifa. I think the
:07:22. > :07:25.Americans are taking this seriously and if we want to be successful in
:07:26. > :07:31.making offshore havens transparent, we need the Americans to be fully
:07:32. > :07:33.committed. People in the offshore business have told us America's new
:07:34. > :07:39.disclosure rules have already had a big effect on their trade. Yet
:07:40. > :07:45.America will not reciprocally disposed to many foreign governments
:07:46. > :07:51.details of deposits in the USA, making it a more destination for
:07:52. > :07:56.money some people may wish to hide. And there is the dilemma, for
:07:57. > :08:00.governments like the US or the UK... Do they really want to crack down,
:08:01. > :08:07.or do they want to welcome all sorts of new foreign investors with tax
:08:08. > :08:17.breaks and, indeed, investor visas? Far from the Caribbean demonstrators
:08:18. > :08:22.gathered in Iceland to demand the resignation of their Premier.
:08:23. > :08:23.Today's allegations produced an immediate effect, but hardly any in
:08:24. > :08:27.China or Russia. Mark Urban. I'm joined now in the studio
:08:28. > :08:30.by Vince Cable the former Business Secretary from Paris,
:08:31. > :08:32.Grace Perez-Navarro from the OECD and in Washington DC, Dan Mitchell,
:08:33. > :08:42.economist at the Cato Institute. Good evening to you all. First,
:08:43. > :08:50.Vince Cable, did you have any idea of the extent of the corruption of
:08:51. > :08:54.sanctions busting until you saw the Panama Papers? Not the specifics but
:08:55. > :08:59.we knew there was large-scale tax avoidance and tax evasion going on.
:09:00. > :09:03.The reason why at the summit, which you described a few minutes ago,
:09:04. > :09:09.that the Prime Minister pushed for an open register of ownership, which
:09:10. > :09:13.we implemented, I introduced at the end of the last government, was
:09:14. > :09:17.precisely to make ownership transparent. The problem with that
:09:18. > :09:21.initiative is the Prime Minister in fighting these tax havens to come to
:09:22. > :09:25.London, the British dependencies, require them to have a serious
:09:26. > :09:29.similar register which would have made it impossible to hide these
:09:30. > :09:33.kind of things. What happened is these little places like the Virgin
:09:34. > :09:39.Islands told the British government to take a running jump. Absolutely
:09:40. > :09:44.no control? 50% British dependencies and there is nothing you can do? We
:09:45. > :09:48.can and we should do something about it. The mechanism that is open is to
:09:49. > :09:56.impose direct rule, which we did with the Turks. But what about AIDS?
:09:57. > :10:02.The richer ones to get any aid but if we do, we should be using it. --
:10:03. > :10:06.what about aid question mark is cracking down on corruption, making
:10:07. > :10:10.them have a full, open and transparent register would be one
:10:11. > :10:22.way of seeing through all this Merc. Would you favour that? Yes. On all
:10:23. > :10:26.the dependencies? Where the abuses are on that scale. The Virgin
:10:27. > :10:33.Islands at the top of the list. Can we go back to your time in power.
:10:34. > :10:37.Since 2010, as you heard in that report, only 11 UK prosecutions were
:10:38. > :10:42.brought for tax evasion on your watch. Surely that is a derisory
:10:43. > :10:47.amount. Yes, I will accept that criticism. I think what happened
:10:48. > :10:50.under this government, the coalition, the previous Labour
:10:51. > :10:53.government, is the resources available to HMRC, and this is a
:10:54. > :11:00.resource intensive business, well cut. Did you protest at the time? We
:11:01. > :11:06.did have arguments about priorities. We did other things, in choosing the
:11:07. > :11:11.anti-avoidance for all, requiring banks not to offer facilitation...
:11:12. > :11:16.Do you think there is expertise in the HMRC to deal with this at this
:11:17. > :11:20.level? This is rather complicated stuff and it does require a lot of
:11:21. > :11:24.resource and special people. If we are taking it seriously, there has
:11:25. > :11:29.to be proper resource. And there hasn't been for years. The OECD have
:11:30. > :11:34.come up with this idea of various reforms. But with these reforms,
:11:35. > :11:41.stop and the Russian oligarchs, stop the people in the Chinese bureau,
:11:42. > :11:45.stop the possibility Putin's needs have been sorting money away... Well
:11:46. > :11:51.anything you propose a fact that level of change? Well, I think here
:11:52. > :11:56.at the OECD what we have been trying to do is get all countries to
:11:57. > :12:00.improve their legal frameworks and level of cooperation they have
:12:01. > :12:05.between each other, in terms of sharing information, banking
:12:06. > :12:11.information, ownership information and so on. It's been a very
:12:12. > :12:17.difficult job but we have made great progress on global Forum on
:12:18. > :12:22.transparency, which now has 132 members. You might have heard our
:12:23. > :12:26.reporter saying earlier, the idea that Chinese politburo is involved
:12:27. > :12:32.is embarrassing for the Chinese because they have tried to crack
:12:33. > :12:36.down on this, which is a nonsense now, because if it goes right to the
:12:37. > :12:40.top, nothing you can do will stop that? I think that is quite
:12:41. > :12:46.pessimistic view, because I think the structures we have put in place
:12:47. > :12:51.for cooperation between has resulted in real change. There have been over
:12:52. > :12:56.800 legislative changes undertaken in different countries. There have
:12:57. > :13:03.been a number of exchanges of information between countries, and
:13:04. > :13:07.we have already, through voluntary disclosure programmes, in a board
:13:08. > :13:11.governments to collect $48 billion that they would not have otherwise
:13:12. > :13:17.collected without the threat of these initiatives. Dan Mitchell,
:13:18. > :13:25.what possible benign reason could there be for individuals and
:13:26. > :13:29.companies moving their money around, hiding money, creating shell
:13:30. > :13:34.companies and so forth to avoid tax? I think the reason we see a lot of
:13:35. > :13:38.this is international business requires international structures.
:13:39. > :13:41.If you are a wealthy investor, entrepreneur, business owner, you
:13:42. > :13:47.are doing cross-border activity, you want a structure in a tax neutral
:13:48. > :13:51.environment. So this notion there is something bad about having a company
:13:52. > :13:55.is ridiculous. It is like saying, we shouldn't allow cars to be sold
:13:56. > :13:59.because some people use them as getaway vehicles for bank robberies.
:14:00. > :14:03.I think if we want more global trade a more global investment, we
:14:04. > :14:06.shouldn't have governments trying to make international business Morkel
:14:07. > :14:12.freaky. If there are some bad guys, just like there are bad guys who'd
:14:13. > :14:17.use motors as getaway vehicles, by all means punish them. But don't let
:14:18. > :14:23.international bureaucracies like the OECD, the greatest tax dodge of all,
:14:24. > :14:27.they go around the world telling people to raise taxes. We should
:14:28. > :14:33.focus on low and simple tax rate, which makes it easy to comply, keep
:14:34. > :14:37.government more streamlined and let international business flow. Let's
:14:38. > :14:43.put this back to the OECD. A tax-free salary first of all factor
:14:44. > :14:49.please respond to Dan Mitchell. Well, my response is we fully
:14:50. > :14:52.support the idea of a low rate and broad-based tax, the problem is we
:14:53. > :14:59.need to get everyone paying those taxes. Right now what we have is a
:15:00. > :15:03.system where taxpayers can operate in a world without borders but tax
:15:04. > :15:06.authorities are restricted by their national boundaries, so they need a
:15:07. > :15:13.means by which they can work together, in order to be able to
:15:14. > :15:16.tackle these tax crimes, even Asian and fraught, that's what we're
:15:17. > :15:23.talking about. We are not talking about legitimate business. --
:15:24. > :15:27.invasion and fraud. If you have world leaders involved in this you
:15:28. > :15:31.will never clear it up? You can at least make it transparent and let
:15:32. > :15:35.the world see what's going on. This is where somebody has done a great
:15:36. > :15:38.public service by exposing to the public... Maybe you cannot stop bad
:15:39. > :15:43.behaviour on the other side of the world but you can show we know
:15:44. > :15:48.what's going on. Let's turn to look at present problem in the UK and
:15:49. > :15:55.that is Tata Steel and the future of Port Talbot. You said one of the
:15:56. > :15:58.deterrents to attracting a buyer is the pension pot. Sajid Javid talks
:15:59. > :16:04.about the Treasury perhaps taking over the pension pot. We had that is
:16:05. > :16:08.contrary to all is an EU state aid would it be out of the question? I
:16:09. > :16:11.don't think that is true. I was in government and we applied to the
:16:12. > :16:12.European Commission for state aid approval to take off the pension
:16:13. > :16:24.fund of the Royal Mail. The problem with is that it is
:16:25. > :16:29.losing a million a day, it is a different situation. -- the problem
:16:30. > :16:34.with Tata. It is not like Royal Mail in that way. I'm not a lawyer, but
:16:35. > :16:38.if I was Secretary of State at the moment, I would be expiring every
:16:39. > :16:43.opportunity to get that agreed. If you have a steel business in Wales
:16:44. > :16:46.and a steel business in Germany, the energy costs in Germany are half of
:16:47. > :16:51.what they were in the United Kingdom, do you think that green
:16:52. > :16:56.elegy problems are to blame? The reason why this was introduced, the
:16:57. > :17:00.biggest element, tax reasons and tax revenue rather than green. -- green
:17:01. > :17:04.energy problems. We were well aware of this, there was an environmental
:17:05. > :17:08.element in it, we would try to get to the root of the energy cost
:17:09. > :17:12.differentials, we spent years, we brought in a compensation scheme, we
:17:13. > :17:15.got the green value commission, for reasons I do not understand the
:17:16. > :17:19.Treasury have been reluctant to pay cut out, steel companies, like in
:17:20. > :17:22.South Wales, they say they do not have any of the money but it has
:17:23. > :17:29.been approved, that should be paid. Thank you very much.
:17:30. > :17:32.The prominent Scottish Asian Human Right's lawyer who was a leader
:17:33. > :17:34.of the Stop The War coalition, Aamer Anwar, has revealed
:17:35. > :17:36.that he has received death threats after convening and chairing
:17:37. > :17:39.an ecumenical meeting after the killing of a Scottish Asian
:17:40. > :17:41.shopkeeper Asad Shah, who was stabbed 30 times
:17:42. > :17:43.after posted an Easter greeting message to his
:17:44. > :17:48.VOICEOVER: It was a killing that rocked a community.
:17:49. > :17:51.Asad Shah, a Glasgow shopkeeper, filmed here in his shop in August,
:17:52. > :17:54.was found stabbed to death in a nearby street on 24th March.
:17:55. > :17:56.Hours earlier he'd posted a message on Facebook wishing the local
:17:57. > :17:58.Christian community a happy Easter, and the police
:17:59. > :18:00.are treating his murder as religiously motivated.
:18:01. > :18:02.In response, prominent local human rights lawyer Aamer Anwar brought
:18:03. > :18:10.Glasgow's religious leaders together in a call for tolerance and harmony.
:18:11. > :18:19.We do not want to import sectarian violence that has caused so much
:18:20. > :18:20.division and so much bloodshed in Pakistan to our communities and
:18:21. > :18:22.streets. But what was a plea
:18:23. > :18:24.for peace, has angered some. Mr Anwar has received angry
:18:25. > :18:26.messages on social media. After handling many controversial
:18:27. > :18:29.cases, he says he's used to that. But now, he faces something far
:18:30. > :18:31.graver, more direct threats that
:18:32. > :18:34.have sparked a police investigation and led Mr Anwar
:18:35. > :18:41.to fear for his life. Mr Anwar says he is now concerned
:18:42. > :18:43.about escalating factional hatred STUDIO: Aamer Anwar is with us
:18:44. > :18:53.in our Glasgow studio. Aamer, because there's an ongoing
:18:54. > :18:55.police investigation, we're limited in what we can
:18:56. > :19:09.say about these new, You have had many threats in the
:19:10. > :19:12.past, you have said, but in a different order.
:19:13. > :19:18.-- of a different order. Why is it important for you to make this
:19:19. > :19:22.public? I have been fighting against racism 525 years but this was
:19:23. > :19:26.different, because this is actually a small minority from within the
:19:27. > :19:33.community who thought that because I dissented, because I condemned what
:19:34. > :19:37.I consider to be controversial comments, by individuals within my
:19:38. > :19:40.community, on the question of sectarian violence, on the question
:19:41. > :19:45.of blasphemy laws, etc, it seemed as though I was fair game, it seemed to
:19:46. > :19:50.give the green light to create a climate of fear through which they
:19:51. > :19:54.thought it was OK for individuals to put abuse online, creating bogus
:19:55. > :20:02.petitions online, attacking me and my reputation. To threaten me, to
:20:03. > :20:05.call me an unbeliever, to call me an unbeliever for which the punishment
:20:06. > :20:10.is one of death, that is the work they have used, in Arabic. That is
:20:11. > :20:16.beyond the pale. Creating a climate of fear, we need to have a debate in
:20:17. > :20:21.the community. There has been a climate of fear since 9/11 within
:20:22. > :20:25.the Muslim community because it has been criminalised and targeted. That
:20:26. > :20:28.does not mean that you close down debate windows within the community
:20:29. > :20:32.want to be critical, when they want to raise issues of concern. As the
:20:33. > :20:39.threat that you have received come from abroad, or has it come from the
:20:40. > :20:44.UK? -- has the threat. I cannot go into specific details but it is
:20:45. > :20:48.within the UK and that is a matter for the police investigation. You
:20:49. > :20:52.have been under pressure from family and friends to withdraw from any
:20:53. > :20:57.kind of involvement, to reconcile some of the different groups in the
:20:58. > :21:02.community, some of whom, as you say, take a very hard line on blasphemy
:21:03. > :21:07.laws, some who are much more tolerant parts of the community. Why
:21:08. > :21:11.are you not now stepping back? It has been a creamy difficult, my
:21:12. > :21:15.family and friends, members of the community, has said it is not worth
:21:16. > :21:18.it, put your young family first. I have got to say, it was
:21:19. > :21:22.heartbreaking when one night last week I had to go out, for a meeting
:21:23. > :21:27.with local community leaders, and I kissed my children good night. I
:21:28. > :21:31.held them longer than I normally would, trying to get out of the
:21:32. > :21:35.door. I thought, the thought that went through my head, will this be
:21:36. > :21:39.the last time I see my children? It would have been a creamy easy for me
:21:40. > :21:44.to have walked away. I keep asking that question, my family keep asking
:21:45. > :21:50.me to walk away. That is wrong. It is about my children's future. -- it
:21:51. > :21:54.would have been extremely easy. As I said in the news these early on, I
:21:55. > :22:09.do not want to see the importation of extremist politics from Pakistan,
:22:10. > :22:13.I do not want that. Some say that could be inflammatory. It should not
:22:14. > :22:17.be seen as inflammatory. Using to be saying there is a problem in this
:22:18. > :22:22.country about speaking out. For whatever reason in the past you feel
:22:23. > :22:26.there has been a demonisation of the British Asian community, there is a
:22:27. > :22:30.problem speaking out. -- you seem to be saying. So people will not stand
:22:31. > :22:34.up against extremism in this country, and that is a real concern
:22:35. > :22:37.of yours. Yes, there is an underlying current, people feel they
:22:38. > :22:45.cannot speak out and if they do they will be targeted and silenced and
:22:46. > :22:48.are they splintering, is the British community is entering into those who
:22:49. > :22:56.will speak out, very few, those who won't, and those who do not condemn
:22:57. > :23:01.the killing of the Punjabi politician because he spoke out
:23:02. > :23:04.against laws. It is important to emphasise that the Glasgow Central
:23:05. > :23:12.Mosque actually managed to come together, the first time ever in the
:23:13. > :23:17.UK that we saw representatives with Pakistani Christians coming
:23:18. > :23:20.together, a Sunni imam even, and when we broke at this meeting I said
:23:21. > :23:24.to the police, this issue is far too great, it is about our future, when
:23:25. > :23:28.we see the loss of one life on our streets, it is one life to many.
:23:29. > :23:33.People have to put aside differences and egos, and they also understood
:23:34. > :23:36.there is individuals within our community, a small minority, who
:23:37. > :23:40.seem to think that what they say in private does not matter. It does
:23:41. > :23:43.matter, that filters out to how they conduct themselves publicly, and if
:23:44. > :23:47.they get with politics in Pakistan and think that is cut off point,
:23:48. > :23:52.that somehow it will not have an impact, then they are wrong. We have
:23:53. > :23:56.seen that, in other situations. The mosques down south, women who have
:23:57. > :23:59.spoken out have been criticised and attacked and abuse online and yet I
:24:00. > :24:07.find myself in the same situation in Scotland. Thank you very much
:24:08. > :24:10.rejoining us. -- thank you very much for joining us.
:24:11. > :24:12.The UN is looking for a new Secretary General.
:24:13. > :24:15.Head of the United Nations Secretariat and Spokesperson
:24:16. > :24:18.Budget? $5.4b billion and rising.
:24:19. > :24:19.Term? Can be indefinite,
:24:20. > :24:21.but usually restricted to two five year stints.
:24:22. > :24:22.Remit? The World!
:24:23. > :24:24.An diplomatic and troubleshooting skills essential.
:24:25. > :24:26.Since its inception in 1945, nine people have held
:24:27. > :24:30.This time, at least one woman wants it.
:24:31. > :24:32.Helen Clark, the former Prime Minister of New Zealand,
:24:33. > :24:34.has just announced she will be running.
:24:35. > :24:37.I spoke to her from New York an hour ago.
:24:38. > :24:43.I started by asking her about the role that the UN plays in global
:24:44. > :24:47.crisis and why they are often criticised for not reacting fast
:24:48. > :24:51.enough. Taking the Syria crisis, from the outset the
:24:52. > :24:55.Secretary-General did appoint a special envoy, Kofi and nine, and
:24:56. > :25:02.curvy in and was followed by Mr Brahimi, and another, and another,
:25:03. > :25:07.and they are talking as we speak in recess at the moment. -- Kofi Annan.
:25:08. > :25:11.The Syria talks are under way and for the sake of the people of Syria,
:25:12. > :25:17.I hope they will succeed. Everything else we do is like a Band Aid as
:25:18. > :25:21.long as there is not peace in Syria. What about the Ebola virus crisis,
:25:22. > :25:27.it has been criticised for the way that they did not handle it. The
:25:28. > :25:33.Secretary-General stepped in. With a special mission to mobilise support.
:25:34. > :25:39.My own organisation was very active. It has led for the UN on the
:25:40. > :25:42.recovery process. At the very top, looking at the Security Council and
:25:43. > :25:48.the five permanent members, which looks like a gentleman 's club of
:25:49. > :25:52.old powers, not new emerging, and that Security Council has a veto. Do
:25:53. > :25:57.you think the make-up of the Security Council is wrong? The
:25:58. > :26:01.Security Council reflects the geopolitical realities of 1945. I
:26:02. > :26:04.have been a Prime Minister, engaged with my country on issues of
:26:05. > :26:07.Security Council reform, I would like the Security Council to look
:26:08. > :26:13.more like the 21st-century world that we live in today. What
:26:14. > :26:16.countries would be in that? There is a group of four that have banded
:26:17. > :26:22.together for many years: Germany, Japan, India, Brazil is outstanding
:26:23. > :26:28.of the standards. Then there has also been the proposal alongside
:26:29. > :26:33.that for permanent and Bishop for two places from Africa, and other
:26:34. > :26:38.suggestions as well. -- permanent membership. As constructed in 1945,
:26:39. > :26:42.before many of today's member states in the UN were independent nations,
:26:43. > :26:46.the Security Council does not reflect the geopolitics we see
:26:47. > :26:50.today. And as you say, the world looks very different from what it
:26:51. > :26:53.did in 1945, what is the justification for the United Kingdom
:26:54. > :27:02.for having a permanent place on the Security Council? 1945, coming out
:27:03. > :27:06.of the disaster of World War II, the United Kingdom was a great power and
:27:07. > :27:10.is still a very significant power, but the member states will have to
:27:11. > :27:14.sort this out, whatever technical experts, secretaries, support the
:27:15. > :27:19.organisation, can give, it will. In the end, it is a member state
:27:20. > :27:25.decision as to what they want it to look like. Looking at the United
:27:26. > :27:28.Nations since 1945, there have been nine Secretary-General, none have
:27:29. > :27:33.been a woman. With the fact of being a woman and a former leader of a
:27:34. > :27:38.country put you in a different kind of footing? I am not campaigning as
:27:39. > :27:42.a woman candidate, I am campaigning as the best person to the job.
:27:43. > :27:45.Obviously I am a woman and as someone who has been a long-time
:27:46. > :27:50.advocate of women's empowerment and gender equality, I like to see women
:27:51. > :27:54.get to the top of whatever field in life. If there is one thing that the
:27:55. > :28:01.United Nations should be achieving now that it has not achieved, what
:28:02. > :28:05.is it? Developing the skills required for the new kinds of
:28:06. > :28:08.conflicts. The conflict we are seeing are by and large not those
:28:09. > :28:13.that were envisaged when the charter was written, when the idea was to
:28:14. > :28:19.banish war between nations, by and large, with few exceptions, that has
:28:20. > :28:21.been achieved. We see so much conflict, civil wars, disparate,
:28:22. > :28:26.non-state actors in these complex, violent extremists. This calls for
:28:27. > :28:29.different approaches and for the United Nations with its strong
:28:30. > :28:36.development, he managed Aryan, human rights, building of peacekeeping
:28:37. > :28:38.arms, -- humanitarian. We need to make a real difference and we need
:28:39. > :28:47.to play as a team. The latest opinion polls on the EU
:28:48. > :28:50.Referendum suggest that the result will be close so both Leave
:28:51. > :28:53.and Remain campaigns will be chasing down every last vote,
:28:54. > :28:55.and millions of those It's estimated that 5.5
:28:56. > :28:58.million UK nationals live beyond our shores, and if they have
:28:59. > :29:01.been on the electoral register in the past 15 years
:29:02. > :29:03.they will be eligible to vote So what does EU membership look
:29:04. > :29:07.like from where they live? Secunder Kermani reports from that
:29:08. > :29:10.British haven in Spain, VOICEOVER: Around 2 million Brits
:29:11. > :29:40.live in the continental EU, I love Spain.
:29:41. > :29:43.I love the Spanish people. And the sunshine, obviously!
:29:44. > :29:46.Many end up in the Costa Del Sol. We took this over,
:29:47. > :29:48.lock, stock and barrel. Brits have been here for decades,
:29:49. > :29:52.but now with the possibility of a Brexit, there is definitely
:29:53. > :29:55.a sense of trouble in paradise. who now spends his time looking
:29:56. > :30:01.after stray Spanish donkeys Ron's horrified at the possibility
:30:02. > :30:08.of a Brexit. He's even more angry
:30:09. > :30:11.that he won't be allowed a vote, as he left the UK more
:30:12. > :30:16.than 15 years ago. I still hold, and my wife,
:30:17. > :30:18.holds a British passport. Ron, like many expats,
:30:19. > :30:30.is a Spanish resident, I could seek Spanish nationality
:30:31. > :30:37.now, I've been here long enough, I want to be British.
:30:38. > :30:40.Why? Because, whether it's right
:30:41. > :30:43.or wrong, I still believe Maybe not to live, but it's
:30:44. > :31:01.still the best place in the world. concerned at the prospect
:31:02. > :31:07.of being cut adrift from Britain, thousands of others here can
:31:08. > :31:14.vote in June. More than half the British expats
:31:15. > :31:17.here in Spain are reportedly over 50 years old, and many of them are now
:31:18. > :31:21.worried about what the EU referendum could mean for their plans
:31:22. > :31:23.for retirement in the sun. One rather dramatic phrase that's
:31:24. > :31:25.been going round the community as they could all be turned
:31:26. > :31:31.into illegal immigrants overnight. This bowling club is where Malaga
:31:32. > :31:45.meets Middle England. The big concerns here,
:31:46. > :31:56.other than the rub of the green, are access to health
:31:57. > :31:58.care and pensions. Brits here get free medical
:31:59. > :32:00.treatment, but that could come I do suffer from diabetes and one
:32:01. > :32:10.or two other conditions. They look after me,
:32:11. > :32:15.whether that will continue And if you had to start
:32:16. > :32:19.paying for a privately? Then we would have
:32:20. > :32:23.to go back to England. What kind of stuff are people
:32:24. > :32:25.talking about, then? It affects a lot of people here,
:32:26. > :32:32.if their pensions are going Will that make life a lot harder
:32:33. > :32:36.for people, do you think? They've already lost their heating
:32:37. > :32:40.allowance, and that's affected It does get cold over here,
:32:41. > :32:44.you do need heating over But other pensioners here are more
:32:45. > :32:49.worried about what they see I have a daughter in Tunbridge Wells
:32:50. > :32:58.and we regularly go and visit. And when I walk round
:32:59. > :33:02.Tunbridge Wells, the shopping centre, I rarely hear
:33:03. > :33:06.an English person. Tunbridge Wells 20 years ago
:33:07. > :33:14.was a lovely place to live, and now they have
:33:15. > :33:16.their own pubs, etc. Isn't that a bit like the British
:33:17. > :33:20.people here in the Costa Del Sol? You come to live in Spain,
:33:21. > :33:23.the Spanish government There are plenty of pubs,
:33:24. > :33:27.restaurants and bars catering for British people
:33:28. > :33:39.on the Costa Del Sol. In Spainsburys you can get
:33:40. > :33:41.all your favourites from home. With 80% of their stock
:33:42. > :33:55.brought over from Britain, the owners worry getting their hands
:33:56. > :33:58.on vital imports likr expats favourite sauces,
:33:59. > :33:59.will be much harder. What's the biggest sellers
:34:00. > :34:01.for the British customers? That has to come,
:34:02. > :34:06.imported in, does it? You can buy the Spanish equivalent
:34:07. > :34:10.of our most popular brand in the UK, but again, they don't seem
:34:11. > :34:12.to taste the same. Do you think it could be a lot
:34:13. > :34:20.harder to import all this type I hope not, but quite possibly,
:34:21. > :34:23.yeah. Big Dave has dished up his fair
:34:24. > :34:32.share of baked beans. He owns one of the most popular
:34:33. > :34:36.cafes on the Costa Del Sol. Roast beef and Yorkshire
:34:37. > :34:42.pudding on Sunday... Dave's worried that leaving the EU
:34:43. > :34:47.could mean fewer customers They're already talking
:34:48. > :34:56.about shutting orders and checking British people's passport
:34:57. > :34:57.and visas for us. I've been here 15 years,
:34:58. > :35:00.what's going to change then? You have an immigration problem
:35:01. > :35:08.at home at the moment with immigrants
:35:09. > :35:09.coming back in. I don't know how many Brits
:35:10. > :35:12.in Europe at the moment... We would be a massive strain
:35:13. > :35:20.on the NHS if we all turn up, overweight, nice and suntanned
:35:21. > :35:25.but looking for some free health cover and maybe a house or somewhere
:35:26. > :35:28.to live because we've just been thrown out of Spain,
:35:29. > :35:30.because you've said Even though most people
:35:31. > :35:39.here are in favour of staying in Europe, worried what a Brexit
:35:40. > :35:42.would mean for them, many say if they were in Britain
:35:43. > :35:46.they might be voting differently, an indication perhaps of how
:35:47. > :35:59.divisive this referendum really is. When first time author
:36:00. > :36:01.Jessica Knoll's thriller Luckiest Girl Alive was published
:36:02. > :36:03.last year it garnered brilliant reviews, sold all over the world
:36:04. > :36:06.and spent four months It was the darkest and most
:36:07. > :36:15.terrfiying of stories about a young outwardly successful
:36:16. > :36:16.young woman in New York, Ani Fanelli,
:36:17. > :36:18.who is hiding a dreadful secret. As a teenager she was gang raped
:36:19. > :36:22.by three boys at her upscale private Now, a year after publication,
:36:23. > :36:27.and after repeatedly being asked the question and denying it,
:36:28. > :36:31.Jessica Knoll has revealed in an essay on Lena Dunham's website
:36:32. > :36:36.that what happened to Ani Fanelli, was inspired by what happened
:36:37. > :36:37.to her. This paradigm shift has caused
:36:38. > :36:50.a sensation and Jessica Knoll says Good evening, Jessica. You were
:36:51. > :36:55.constantly asked if this book was based on you when the hardback came
:36:56. > :37:01.out and you constantly denied it. Why did you stay silent for so long?
:37:02. > :37:06.I think it was just a matter of being conditioned to being silent
:37:07. > :37:11.about it. When this first happened to me I did try to talk about and I
:37:12. > :37:15.did try to ask for help and it was like I was shot down where ever I
:37:16. > :37:20.was turned and told not to talk about this, that nothing bad had
:37:21. > :37:23.happened to me. That is how I internalised it and spend the next
:37:24. > :37:31.17 years of my life, not talking about it and feeling... It would
:37:32. > :37:36.make people feel uncomfortable to talk about. In the book there is a
:37:37. > :37:41.scene where Ani Fanelli, after what happens to, goes to a doctor and
:37:42. > :37:46.asks the doctor if he thinks she has been raped and they say, I'm not
:37:47. > :37:50.qualified to say. That did happen to you. I wonder if that doctor said
:37:51. > :37:56.yes, you were raped, if your life would be different? I think it is a
:37:57. > :38:02.real possibility. What I was looking for then was someone to give me a
:38:03. > :38:07.voice, and someone to say, yes, you were raped, that did happen to you.
:38:08. > :38:12.I wonder if I felt I had any measure of support, especially from an
:38:13. > :38:18.authority figure or an adult, if the situation would have turned out
:38:19. > :38:25.differently. You then decided to confess. Why did you put your essay
:38:26. > :38:37.on Lena Dunham's site? I think it is an amazing platform. I'm a big
:38:38. > :38:40.admirer. A big admirer of Lena Dunham and of the editor and chief
:38:41. > :38:44.of their site. They were supportive of the book when it first came out
:38:45. > :38:49.and said, if you ever want to write anything for us, please let us know.
:38:50. > :38:53.That was probably about 8-9 months ago. That stayed with me and when I
:38:54. > :38:58.decided I did want to write about this, they were the first people I
:38:59. > :39:03.turned to. Why did you make the decision to come clean? I think it
:39:04. > :39:11.was just knowing I was about to go on a tour for the paperback release
:39:12. > :39:13.here in the states and knowing I was going to be asked this question
:39:14. > :39:20.again and again in every city where I docked. Did something similar
:39:21. > :39:28.happened to you that happened to Ani Fanelli, or how did you write that
:39:29. > :39:32.seems so specifically? I did a very awkward song and dance and I didn't
:39:33. > :39:37.want to do that any more. I wanted to speak candidly. What we must
:39:38. > :39:42.remember is this is the start now, because you have said this, of
:39:43. > :39:48.course a difficult process for you personally? Well, yes. This is all
:39:49. > :39:53.part of the healing process, which I never went through when I was
:39:54. > :39:57.younger. I buried it. Now I'm talking about it, and now I'm
:39:58. > :40:01.actually dealing with it. I'm hurting about it and crying about
:40:02. > :40:06.it, and those are all good things, but they are very hard. This is the
:40:07. > :40:11.beginning of a long, overdue healing process. I was going to say, do you
:40:12. > :40:17.think the act of talking about it now is bringing some measure of
:40:18. > :40:22.relief? Not necessarily relief, but what it's bringing me is a sense of
:40:23. > :40:26.strength and power. I didn't have a voice when I was younger. Nobody
:40:27. > :40:31.stood up for me. I tried to stand up for myself and I wasn't able to. Now
:40:32. > :40:37.I'm able to do that and supported in doing that, so it's a very
:40:38. > :40:41.empowering feeling. Just because I think the book has appealed to so
:40:42. > :40:44.many young women and has done the rounds. You have written a
:40:45. > :40:49.screenplay and so forth. I wonder what you would say to other young
:40:50. > :40:54.women... The point of this is at the age of 14 and 15, would you say to
:40:55. > :40:58.them, keep pushing, you have to tell people? Because for them there is no
:40:59. > :41:05.great revelation of healing in your book. I mean, I don't presume to
:41:06. > :41:13.tell anyone and what to do with her own experiences. The essay, what I
:41:14. > :41:18.was hoping to do in writing that essay was to let women like that
:41:19. > :41:22.know that they are not alone. If I had written an essay like that when
:41:23. > :41:27.I was 15 it would have meant the world to me. I hope someone is able
:41:28. > :41:30.to read it and feel a connection to me and to know that all this
:41:31. > :41:35.wonderful support I have received over the last week is also support
:41:36. > :41:40.for them. How have your parents been? This is the must be difficult
:41:41. > :41:45.for them to see go through this recently? It has been very difficult
:41:46. > :41:48.for them, no parent wants to see their child in pain or know they
:41:49. > :41:52.have carried something as awful as this with them for all these years.
:41:53. > :41:56.At the end of the day they understand completely why I did this
:41:57. > :41:59.and are very proud of me. Jessica, thank very much.
:42:00. > :42:16.That's all we have time for - I am back tomorrow -
:42:17. > :42:17.A very good evening to you. The downpours of