0:00:02 > 0:00:08Maybe he has been busy with his tax return, but Jeremy Corbyn has been
0:00:09 > 0:00:12noticeably absent from the referendum campaign, that will
0:00:13 > 0:00:20change tomorrow so is he ready to go full throttle for the Remain side.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24He says he wants us to stay in the European Union, I believe that but I
0:00:25 > 0:00:29think it has to give the impression that it is absolutely what he
0:00:30 > 0:00:35authentically believes. We will ask Chuka Umunna if Labour is planning
0:00:36 > 0:00:40to set the referendum out. And should knowing this lady disqualify
0:00:41 > 0:00:43the culture secretary from regulating the press? What does
0:00:44 > 0:00:52former Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell say? Also tonight: Nick Clegg takes
0:00:53 > 0:01:02us to Colombia to see how they ended the war on drugs.
0:01:03 > 0:01:12And you might not know her face but you might well know her voice. I am
0:01:13 > 0:01:18sorry. Helen, darling, the last thing I want to do is upset you but
0:01:19 > 0:01:29you must admit, why all this subterfuge? I don't know. You don't
0:01:30 > 0:01:38know? We will clock about one of the stars of the archers about its
0:01:39 > 0:01:42portrayal of psychological abuse. Guess what, the referendum is ten
0:01:43 > 0:01:46weeks away and we can see the arrangements are all firming up. Two
0:01:47 > 0:01:51campaigns, one on each side were giving official designation today.
0:01:52 > 0:01:56There is still come petition on the Leave side on which group will make
0:01:57 > 0:02:00the best pitch to the public. The one group which did not get official
0:02:01 > 0:02:11designation might take it to court but there remains a mystery on the
0:02:12 > 0:02:16Remain am a where is Jeremy Corbyn? Tomorrow is a big day because Jeremy
0:02:17 > 0:02:20Corbyn will set out his support for staying in. All eyes on him to see
0:02:21 > 0:02:25how sincerely enthusiastic he sounds and it matters to the Remain side
0:02:26 > 0:02:30because it want win unless it supporters turn out on the day and a
0:02:31 > 0:02:32lot of them will not be inspired by David Cameron to do so. Our
0:02:33 > 0:02:43political editor reports. The days are getting longer, the
0:02:44 > 0:02:49Midsummer referendum will soon be upon us, Labour is official position
0:02:50 > 0:02:53is to campaign for Remain. But is the party, specifically the
0:02:54 > 0:02:57leadership, doing enough campaigning? Critics say Jeremy
0:02:58 > 0:03:05Corbyn has been nowhere near noisy enough in making the case. If we end
0:03:06 > 0:03:09up exiting the European Union we will partly, as a Labour Party, have
0:03:10 > 0:03:14ourselves to blame and people will naturally asked did we do enough to
0:03:15 > 0:03:19pull our weight? I don't want that on my conscience, I think Labour has
0:03:20 > 0:03:23to be full throttle, and equivocal, passionately in favour of staying
0:03:24 > 0:03:28within the European Union. So how might people have got the impression
0:03:29 > 0:03:30that Jeremy Corbyn is lukewarm about the European project? Perhaps
0:03:31 > 0:03:36because he has been arguing against it for most of his adult life. There
0:03:37 > 0:03:42are literally dozens of examples of Jeremy Corbyn's hostility the EU in
0:03:43 > 0:03:45the archives. You have European bureaucracy to uncountable to
0:03:46 > 0:03:52anybody, powers have gone to national parliaments -- have gone
0:03:53 > 0:03:58from. These are quite serious matters. The public don't seem to
0:03:59 > 0:04:01know where Jeremy Corbyn stands, 78% of those asked recently identified
0:04:02 > 0:04:05David Cameron in favour of remaining. 74% knew that Boris
0:04:06 > 0:04:12Johnson was in favour of leaving. But less than half correctly
0:04:13 > 0:04:17identified Jeremy Corbyn's position. I think there are two categories,
0:04:18 > 0:04:23there are people like myself who have been passionate pro-European
0:04:24 > 0:04:26campaigners all our lives,, that is one set of people and there is
0:04:27 > 0:04:32another set of people who have doubts about the way the EU works
0:04:33 > 0:04:35and Jeremy has maybe fallen into that category historically, who are
0:04:36 > 0:04:40now swinging behind in and I think it's important you get both the
0:04:41 > 0:04:44categories of people because the country, not everyone has decided,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48people do want to hear rational argument. There is another reason
0:04:49 > 0:04:52Labour are not focused on the referendum, made a fifth is election
0:04:53 > 0:04:57day and a whole swathe of contests. In Wales where Ukip is calling
0:04:58 > 0:05:01strongly Labour does not want to shout about its pro-EU position
0:05:02 > 0:05:06whereas in Scotland it has been identified that some in the party
0:05:07 > 0:05:11fear it could be dangerous to align with David Cameron. But tomorrow
0:05:12 > 0:05:17Jeremy Corbyn will be delivering what is being billed as a major
0:05:18 > 0:05:20speech on Europe. If pro-EU Labour MPs are expecting their leader to
0:05:21 > 0:05:24give a passionate defence of our membership when he gives his speech
0:05:25 > 0:05:28tomorrow I think they will be disappointed. I understand he will
0:05:29 > 0:05:33give a far more nuanced argument saying on balance we are better off
0:05:34 > 0:05:38in, but that the EU should reform itself utterly. That is unlikely to
0:05:39 > 0:05:42satisfy his critics. He says he wants us to stay in the European
0:05:43 > 0:05:47Union and I believe that but I think it's got to be, give the impression
0:05:48 > 0:05:50that it is absolutely what he authentically believes. If we send
0:05:51 > 0:05:55out the vibes that it is half-hearted somehow the public will
0:05:56 > 0:05:57notice that, they will spot it and maybe that would motivate the
0:05:58 > 0:06:02millions of voters that we need to make sure this is not a knife edge
0:06:03 > 0:06:07vote, that this is a decisive vote for staying in the European Union.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11In the end this referendum might be decided by turnout. If a labour
0:06:12 > 0:06:12voters are unenthused and unconvinced then it could be
0:06:13 > 0:06:21decisive. Jeremy Corbyn speaks tomorrow and
0:06:22 > 0:06:26another big Labour figure is also speaking tomorrow, Chuka Umunna who
0:06:27 > 0:06:29joins me now. You think there is room for nuance in the Remain
0:06:30 > 0:06:33campaign? If Jeremy Corbyn goes out and says on the one hand, on the
0:06:34 > 0:06:39other hand but on balance I am in favour of staying in, is that a good
0:06:40 > 0:06:44way of selling it? I am delighted he is giving this speech and I told him
0:06:45 > 0:06:49that today. To some extent, the EU is not perfect and it needs reform.
0:06:50 > 0:06:55But that's not the question on the paper, the question is whether we
0:06:56 > 0:06:58want to stay in or out the European Union and ultimately if you want to
0:06:59 > 0:07:02reform it and let's not forget we come out we are still going to
0:07:03 > 0:07:06probably everyone to trade with the EU, we'll have to comply with its
0:07:07 > 0:07:10rules and regulations. But to reform it you have to be in the room at the
0:07:11 > 0:07:17table, if you are outside you have no impact. I think there is a
0:07:18 > 0:07:22strong, progressive centre-left case for continued membership of the
0:07:23 > 0:07:27European Union. Is it, as a campaigning tactic, does what Jeremy
0:07:28 > 0:07:32Corbyn seems to be up doing, does it work to say probably we should be
0:07:33 > 0:07:39staying in or do you have to beat the drum for the in side? I think
0:07:40 > 0:07:44Jeremy will beat the drum, you have to be full throttle. This contest of
0:07:45 > 0:07:49globalisation, it was interesting seeing historic footage of Jeremy at
0:07:50 > 0:07:53the end of the 70s, early 80s because globalisation has run across
0:07:54 > 0:07:57our country and unleashed forces which have been positive and
0:07:58 > 0:08:01negative. If we want to stop multinational companies holding
0:08:02 > 0:08:04countries to ransom for example, playing of terms and conditions of
0:08:05 > 0:08:09workers here against those abroad, being in a European Union which sets
0:08:10 > 0:08:15minimum standards across 28 member states provide huge protection to
0:08:16 > 0:08:17that. If you look at other big left causes, the environment, pollution
0:08:18 > 0:08:27knows no borders and you have to deal with that on eight cross-border
0:08:28 > 0:08:31basis. And global poverty. What you would say is a left-wing case, why
0:08:32 > 0:08:37has the left, and why does the left or many on the left remain so
0:08:38 > 0:08:42equivocal on membership of the EU? I think it is changing, I think there
0:08:43 > 0:08:46has been hesitancy because there was nervousness around the EU
0:08:47 > 0:08:51renegotiation. The Prime Minister said... It goes back to the early
0:08:52 > 0:08:5680s and many have not switched from that position. It does because some
0:08:57 > 0:09:00on the left saw the EU as a corporate club but as I have said I
0:09:01 > 0:09:04think when you are looking at how we ensure multinationals pay their fair
0:09:05 > 0:09:07share, operate fairly, you have two operate at a supranational
0:09:08 > 0:09:12cross-border level with other partners to make sure they are good
0:09:13 > 0:09:15global citizens. I think why there was hesitancy is that people were
0:09:16 > 0:09:18worried about the renegotiation, that the Prime Minister was going to
0:09:19 > 0:09:24bargain away the social protections which are so fundamental. But that
0:09:25 > 0:09:29did not happen. Now we are faced with a clear choice, you are either
0:09:30 > 0:09:33in or out, you either join the likes of Nigel Farage, Chris Grayling and
0:09:34 > 0:09:37Iain Duncan Smith used a in and make sure we can build a more fair and
0:09:38 > 0:09:42equal world and not just at home but abroad. I am listening to your
0:09:43 > 0:09:50obvious passion on this but let's be honest, you feel much more strongly
0:09:51 > 0:09:54about June 23 the local elections -- than the local elections only the
0:09:55 > 0:09:57theft. Those pale into insignificance converted a decision
0:09:58 > 0:10:08about Britain permanently stays in the EU comes out. -- compare to.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14Both are very important. In London we have a mayor who has not built
0:10:15 > 0:10:18enough homes, I'm thankful we have a fantastic candidate who has made
0:10:19 > 0:10:22housing and transport the priority and that is why I think Sadiq Khan
0:10:23 > 0:10:27is on course to hopefully be elected. But this EU referendum
0:10:28 > 0:10:30campaign is fundamental. I am leading the London campaign and it
0:10:31 > 0:10:34is one of Europe's great capital cities and I don't want that to go
0:10:35 > 0:10:38away. I don't want the country to be diminished, let's keep the great in
0:10:39 > 0:10:43Great Britain. I think that is what you will hear from our leader
0:10:44 > 0:10:48tomorrow. Thank you very much. We asked vote Leave to provide us with
0:10:49 > 0:10:54an interview but they said nobody was available. The media has been
0:10:55 > 0:10:59playing what is the scandal today. Is it the fact that an important MP,
0:11:00 > 0:11:03John Whittingdale, went out with a dominatrix the fact that the papers
0:11:04 > 0:11:08did not report it, the fact that the BBC did report it or was it that
0:11:09 > 0:11:12John Whittingdale did not report it himself? Or finally that he had to
0:11:13 > 0:11:16oversee the press knowing they had something on him, a potential
0:11:17 > 0:11:20conflict of interest? Let's see what Mitchell thanks, he was caught up in
0:11:21 > 0:11:25a media storm of his own at one point. What do you think is the
0:11:26 > 0:11:33issue is at the heart of this? I don't think there is an issue. The
0:11:34 > 0:11:37fact is that this is a middle-aged single Conservative member of
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Parliament who went out with someone who turned out not to be quite what
0:11:42 > 0:11:47they thought. That happens to lots of people and there is no story
0:11:48 > 0:11:54here. I can't understand... Move along, nothing to see. Would you
0:11:55 > 0:11:56think it was a story if he had known she was a dominatrix? Arguably,
0:11:57 > 0:12:03single man dating someone with an interesting career, is that a story?
0:12:04 > 0:12:08I don't think that would have been a story but I have struggled hard with
0:12:09 > 0:12:11this one to understand the mob descending, the Labour Party, which
0:12:12 > 0:12:15is what they are paid to do, start it up and quite well, but at the end
0:12:16 > 0:12:18of the day that is what you're left with, somebody who is single and
0:12:19 > 0:12:23went out with someone and the relationship didn't work and that's
0:12:24 > 0:12:27about it. Therefore we get onto some of the arguments, your personal
0:12:28 > 0:12:34experience, did you know anything about this? You were the Chief Whip
0:12:35 > 0:12:35before this was taking place but had it gone around, was everyone talking
0:12:36 > 0:12:48about it? take confection tweet confession
0:12:49 > 0:12:52from every middle-aged member of the party who had gone out with a
0:12:53 > 0:12:55girlfriend or boyfriend and found out they weren't what they thought
0:12:56 > 0:12:57he wouldn't be able to do his job looking after the Parliamentary
0:12:58 > 0:13:04party and making sure the government gets its business. The reason why it
0:13:05 > 0:13:07is an issue, some people think it is an issue, is because there is a
0:13:08 > 0:13:11feeling that the man overseeing regulation of the press might have
0:13:12 > 0:13:14wanted to court favour with the press and was conflicted because the
0:13:15 > 0:13:19press had something on him and he might have wanted to stop them
0:13:20 > 0:13:25publishing it. Now, do you recognise that as a conflict and is it
0:13:26 > 0:13:27important? No, it's not, I don't recognise it as a conflict. The
0:13:28 > 0:13:32press can't make up their mind where they stand on it. Is it the fact the
0:13:33 > 0:13:35press didn't publish this because so it is possibly a matter of interest
0:13:36 > 0:13:39to the public I think it can be overstated. It's not a matter of
0:13:40 > 0:13:42public interest. Rather press being criticised for publishing now when
0:13:43 > 0:13:46they didn't before or for not publishing when they knew about it?
0:13:47 > 0:13:51Seems the system is working quite well. They didn't publish because
0:13:52 > 0:13:55there is nothing there to publish. The potential conflict, the
0:13:56 > 0:13:58appearance of conflict, might have been alleviated if John Whittingdale
0:13:59 > 0:14:02had said to the Cabinet Secretary or David Cameron, there is this thing,
0:14:03 > 0:14:07the press have a story they haven't run about me. I just want you to
0:14:08 > 0:14:11know that, we don't need to put it into the public domain. Should John
0:14:12 > 0:14:15Whittingdale have told David Cameron when he was appointed culture
0:14:16 > 0:14:21Minister with responsibility for the press that this had been lurking
0:14:22 > 0:14:25around? I don't think so, no. It's a debatable point. But the fact is the
0:14:26 > 0:14:29poor fellow is entitled to his private life, this happened some
0:14:30 > 0:14:32time before he was appointed to the Cabinet. I just don't think it was
0:14:33 > 0:14:36something he would wish to raise with the Prime Minister or that the
0:14:37 > 0:14:40Prime Minister would have expected him to raise. When you become
0:14:41 > 0:14:45Cabinet minister, I'm sure people have you read ideas that MI5 run a
0:14:46 > 0:14:49quick check on you and all of that. Is it like that? Does the Prime
0:14:50 > 0:14:54Minister interview you and say, now, Mr Mitchell, is there anything you
0:14:55 > 0:15:00want to tell me? Skeletons cost to mark we know our colleagues pretty
0:15:01 > 0:15:07well. -- skeletons? We all know each other pretty well. The fact is, in
0:15:08 > 0:15:12the case of John, he was a single man. I'm mystified. I can't
0:15:13 > 0:15:16understand why this has taken up so much bandwidth of the media today.
0:15:17 > 0:15:24If you would, because you've had pleb gate and all of that, living
0:15:25 > 0:15:29through the furore, regardless of whether there is substance to it or
0:15:30 > 0:15:31no substance to it, what is that like? It's not a pleasant
0:15:32 > 0:15:35experience, one of the reasons I'm very pleased to come on your
0:15:36 > 0:15:39programme tonight and give my view that John has been put through the
0:15:40 > 0:15:40mill today and really in a way he should not have been. We saw the
0:15:41 > 0:15:46same thing over the Prime Minister's tax return.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50There wasn't really so gory but the mob descended at the Labour Party
0:15:51 > 0:15:55did what they are supposed to do and stirred it up. -- there wasn't
0:15:56 > 0:15:59really a story. The mob stayed for about three weeks in my case because
0:16:00 > 0:16:02there wasn't a lot of other news. It isn't a pleasant experience and I
0:16:03 > 0:16:06don't think John deserves this and I'm very pleased to come on here as
0:16:07 > 0:16:09former Chief Whip and make it very clear. Finally, the fact he changed
0:16:10 > 0:16:13the policy of the last government, moved it to something more
0:16:14 > 0:16:17favourable to the press, you don't think of anything to do with the
0:16:18 > 0:16:20fact the press were sitting on files with a story they could have run on
0:16:21 > 0:16:27him? Nothing whatsoever, he has been a very distinguished chairman of the
0:16:28 > 0:16:30culture media and sport select committee, his views are very
0:16:31 > 0:16:35well-known, he didn't change his views and he has been utterly
0:16:36 > 0:16:40consistent. Story should go away. Next week, the UN hold a special
0:16:41 > 0:16:44general simply session on drugs. Have you heard of it? No, probably
0:16:45 > 0:16:46because it isn't going to change anything and the only leaders
0:16:47 > 0:16:49attending will be those of Latin American companies in Accra
0:16:50 > 0:16:56countries, the most desperate for something to change. -- Latin
0:16:57 > 0:17:01American countries, the most desperate for something to change.
0:17:02 > 0:17:06Most of Europe treats drug as a legal but takes a soft approach to
0:17:07 > 0:17:10soft drugs. Some states in the US, Uruguay and Canada, which have legal
0:17:11 > 0:17:15regulated markets for cannabis. It is basically all over the place. One
0:17:16 > 0:17:18of the staunchest supporters of the new approach is the former Deputy
0:17:19 > 0:17:22Prime Minister here, Nick Clegg, who famously argued with Theresa May
0:17:23 > 0:17:25over the issue while he was in government. Now he's been to
0:17:26 > 0:17:29Colombia, one of the countries that called for this special UN summit,
0:17:30 > 0:17:34to meet President Santos. While there he made a report for us.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39I'm visiting Colombia because it's a country that we can learn from. It's
0:17:40 > 0:17:43a place that knows better than anywhere else how organised crime
0:17:44 > 0:17:55controls the drug trade. I'm going to talk to its president
0:17:56 > 0:18:05to discuss whether regulating and legalising drugs is a better way
0:18:06 > 0:18:09forward. Go to the other side. OK, guys? Yeah.
0:18:10 > 0:18:18This first time? Yeah. This was where the original narco-traffickers
0:18:19 > 0:18:22operated with such ruthless efficiency. It was home to the
0:18:23 > 0:18:27infamous Pablo Perez go back, who controlled a fast criminal network
0:18:28 > 0:18:33that extended across Colombia and reach into many other countries. --
0:18:34 > 0:18:35Pablo Escobar. He was the fifth richest man in the world at one
0:18:36 > 0:18:48point. Sinew mayor has only just been
0:18:49 > 0:19:13elected, but he remembers the days of Escobar's rule. Jim
0:19:14 > 0:19:24now Pablo Escobar is dead, his sister, Tim two lives here. She
0:19:25 > 0:19:25tries to keep a low profile, it's no longer good to have the name
0:19:26 > 0:19:54Escobar. Luz Maria thinks the death of her
0:19:55 > 0:20:24brother didn't lead to the end of the problem.
0:20:25 > 0:20:30There is still crime in Colombia and its link to drugs remains strong.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34The Colombian government has tried to address many of the security
0:20:35 > 0:20:42issues. They were helped by $16 billion of US support. They also
0:20:43 > 0:20:47believe cocaine and its use could be eradicated by aerial spraying huge
0:20:48 > 0:20:52swathes of the plant that is needed to make the drug cocaine. It didn't
0:20:53 > 0:20:56work. Colombia remains the number one producer of cocaine in the world
0:20:57 > 0:21:03and, with it, the crime gangs persist.
0:21:04 > 0:21:44Fabiola is a farmer, she just wants to grow coca, not for cocaine.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49The aerial spraying was finally halted in October last year, but
0:21:50 > 0:21:51this method in the war on drugs had already proved destructive to many
0:21:52 > 0:22:24ordinary Colombians. I think he's here, I'd like to see
0:22:25 > 0:22:29him. I had breakfast with Columbia's president in the 1990s at the height
0:22:30 > 0:22:32of the powers of the narco-traffickers. He survived many
0:22:33 > 0:22:36assassination attempt on some of his family members were murdered. It was
0:22:37 > 0:22:38under his watch that Pablo Escobar was killed and he had some
0:22:39 > 0:23:07interesting ideas about drugs. Your view is if you decriminalised
0:23:08 > 0:23:19that, it will help the security issue.
0:23:20 > 0:23:26In fact, Colombia has gone further than the UK towards decriminalising
0:23:27 > 0:23:28drugs. A lesson we could learn from. In the UK, many people are forced to
0:23:29 > 0:23:31steal to fund their drug habit because both drug dealing and drug
0:23:32 > 0:23:34use are illegal. In Colombia, possession of small
0:23:35 > 0:23:45amounts is legal. I was fascinated to visit a
0:23:46 > 0:23:51government funded clinic that tests pupils drugs to prove they don't
0:23:52 > 0:25:06contain dangerous chemicals. -- test pupils drugs.
0:25:07 > 0:25:13With Columbia now making progress in undermining cartels, this city is
0:25:14 > 0:25:15now a different place. It was recently voted one of the best
0:25:16 > 0:25:25cities to live in in Latin America. It really is a fantastic
0:25:26 > 0:25:29illustration of how even in a very poor part of Latin America things
0:25:30 > 0:25:35can change. And the grip, the terrible deadly grip of narco
0:25:36 > 0:25:43trafficking and narco criminality does eventually end. Leave Nick
0:25:44 > 0:25:48Clegg ably helped by BBC producer Rachel Wright. Mr Clegg is with me
0:25:49 > 0:25:52here. We're joined from New York by a former drug policy adviser to the
0:25:53 > 0:25:55Obama administration. Nick Clegg, thanks for making the film, very
0:25:56 > 0:26:00interesting. What would your policy be, not on cannabis, we note Lib
0:26:01 > 0:26:04Dems have had a decriminalisation policy on that for ages. Cocaine,
0:26:05 > 0:26:10crystal meth, what would be your view is, and this is the big... By
0:26:11 > 0:26:15far the biggest drug. That's the easy one. I don't think it easy at
0:26:16 > 0:26:19all. You've just made a film in Colombia where they supply cocaine.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23If you spit to the present, you spoke score cut the bit where I
0:26:24 > 0:26:26spoke to the president of the country, he says, if you want to
0:26:27 > 0:26:29shift the world's approach to the war on drugs, which has clearly
0:26:30 > 0:26:32failed because criminals are getting... The potency, the harm on
0:26:33 > 0:26:36the drug stock market you have to start with cannabis. They
0:26:37 > 0:26:40understand. What would be your policy on cocaine? For me, the focus
0:26:41 > 0:26:44is on cannabis because I think it is by far the biggest share, the lion's
0:26:45 > 0:26:48share of the profits of criminal gangs, it is where other parts of
0:26:49 > 0:26:55the world are experimenting by regulating it, taking the sale in
0:26:56 > 0:26:58the interaction... You don't have a policy on cocaine, crystal meth, all
0:26:59 > 0:27:03these other drugs? Of course you have a policy... Your policy is the
0:27:04 > 0:27:07same as the UN policy, the same as the war on drugs everybody has been
0:27:08 > 0:27:11fighting. There is one point of consensus, everybody wants to reduce
0:27:12 > 0:27:17the harm of drugs. I'm a dad I don't want my kids taking drugs. You have
0:27:18 > 0:27:22a different policy to the world on cannabis, but the same policies on
0:27:23 > 0:27:26cocaine. Because cannabis is by far the biggest drugs consumed, given
0:27:27 > 0:27:29that is the great thing which fuels the bank account of the criminal
0:27:30 > 0:27:33community around the world, you've got to deal with that and that above
0:27:34 > 0:27:36and beyond everything else. Of course it means you also give
0:27:37 > 0:27:40treatment to people who have addictions of other varieties of
0:27:41 > 0:27:45drugs, but the cannabis question is the question the world faces right
0:27:46 > 0:27:48now. Kevin. Do you agree with that, do you draw distinction between
0:27:49 > 0:27:51cannabis, which you might have one policy to come and cocaine and hard
0:27:52 > 0:27:55drugs, where you take a different policy? Obviously they are different
0:27:56 > 0:28:00but I must correct one thing. The vast majority of revenue coming into
0:28:01 > 0:28:02transnational criminal groups and drug trafficking organisation isn't
0:28:03 > 0:28:07from cannabis, it is the vast majority of illegal drug use,
0:28:08 > 0:28:10cannabis, but these are violent gangs, violent criminal
0:28:11 > 0:28:13organisations getting their money from human trafficking mainly. Then
0:28:14 > 0:28:17we are talking about things like extortion, kidnapping, became the
0:28:18 > 0:28:23methamphetamine and heroin. That is why there with absolutely no... You
0:28:24 > 0:28:27can't take it seriously to say we will be legalising cocaine and
0:28:28 > 0:28:31methamphetamine possession in parts of the world where institutions are
0:28:32 > 0:28:35weak. On the cannabis policy, is declared and his colleagues have
0:28:36 > 0:28:39forwarded for legalisation, I find it very disappointing given the
0:28:40 > 0:28:42incredibly progressive and congratulatory policy we should give
0:28:43 > 0:28:47the Lib Dems on mental health. But the issue is mental health is
0:28:48 > 0:28:51absolutely connected, especially, to heavy high potent cannabis use. You
0:28:52 > 0:28:54can't have one strategy odyssey for mental illness and health and turn
0:28:55 > 0:28:58around and say Colorado and Washington may be having it right. I
0:28:59 > 0:29:01can tell you from the US the increasing use use and the problems
0:29:02 > 0:29:05coming out of this massive commercial industry, it is the
0:29:06 > 0:29:07global tobacco industry all over again, we don't want to be copying
0:29:08 > 0:29:16alcohol and tobacco for cannabis. As that specific point, it is
0:29:17 > 0:29:19interesting because there are links between mental health damage and
0:29:20 > 0:29:25cannabis use which you want to legalise and I suspect... The worst
0:29:26 > 0:29:28people to help either your mental health or your cannabis consumption
0:29:29 > 0:29:32or any other health problem you have is the criminal fraternity around
0:29:33 > 0:29:40the world, why on earth are we allowing these damaging substances
0:29:41 > 0:29:45to be held in the hands of people who wish us ill? Criminals? Surely
0:29:46 > 0:29:49it's better to bring it into the open, to regulate it so you can make
0:29:50 > 0:29:55sure what people consume is safer for them. You can tax it and
0:29:56 > 0:29:59restricted by age, you can make sure that you can go after the criminals
0:30:00 > 0:30:03who at the moment are getting away scot-free. The extraordinary thing
0:30:04 > 0:30:06at the moment is we are locking up people because of possession of
0:30:07 > 0:30:13drugs and we are allowing the panel to sell it to get away scot-free.
0:30:14 > 0:30:18Kevin, come in. That is a Paule Sticheping me that we have do lock
0:30:19 > 0:30:22people up in prison or allow it to go to Philip Morris and the global
0:30:23 > 0:30:27alcohol industry which has been a disaster in the UK. You do not have
0:30:28 > 0:30:31to go to criminalising and throwing people in prison, I don't think you
0:30:32 > 0:30:34should do that anyone using drugs, they need treatment. But we don't
0:30:35 > 0:30:38want to increase the availability and promotion that would come with
0:30:39 > 0:30:46this idea of legalisation. Let's not get caught in that trap. The UK has
0:30:47 > 0:30:50made process on this with specialist courts which deal with this complex
0:30:51 > 0:30:53connection between crime and addiction because people are
0:30:54 > 0:30:57committing crime to fuel their drug habit which they will do whether it
0:30:58 > 0:31:00is legal or not, or under the influence of drugs which they will
0:31:01 > 0:31:05do more if it is legal. This has to be looked at in a much more nuanced
0:31:06 > 0:31:11way. Thank you Kevin, I will let you go now. Nick Clegg, an interesting
0:31:12 > 0:31:15set of discussions, whilst we have got you I wonder if we can talk
0:31:16 > 0:31:19briefly about John Whittingdale and what you make, Andrew Mitchell
0:31:20 > 0:31:23telling us that there is nothing to see, move along. What do you make of
0:31:24 > 0:31:26the change in policy which has occurred under John Whittingdale as
0:31:27 > 0:31:32culture Secretary, there was a different policy under the last
0:31:33 > 0:31:35government. I don't care at all about what John Whittingdale gets do
0:31:36 > 0:31:40in his private life, it is his private life. As you imply in your
0:31:41 > 0:31:44question, the reason has any resonance and I suspect it would
0:31:45 > 0:31:48even if it was a different Secretary of State, whether he did or did not
0:31:49 > 0:31:52have a relationship with this individual, this Conservative
0:31:53 > 0:31:57government, and the most open secret in government, is desperately trying
0:31:58 > 0:32:01to wriggle out of delivering on the commitments that David Cameron and
0:32:02 > 0:32:03the party made with other parties in the last parliament following the
0:32:04 > 0:32:12recommendations of the Leveson Inquiry. Very solemn promises were
0:32:13 > 0:32:17made by the Conservative Party, an act of Parliament was passed on a
0:32:18 > 0:32:20cross-party basis. The Royal charter approach was a conservative
0:32:21 > 0:32:24invention and now for reasons you would need to ask the Conservatives
0:32:25 > 0:32:29about the are keen not to offend some of the newspapers who don't
0:32:30 > 0:32:34like that whole process, for rather misplaced reasons in my view. But
0:32:35 > 0:32:39that is the point. That is what you are looking at rather than photos of
0:32:40 > 0:32:46John Whittingdale? His personal life is his personal life. Some have said
0:32:47 > 0:32:50is there not a conflict of interest? He might be wanting to court favour
0:32:51 > 0:33:01with the press, do you think there is a conflict Wychwood Warrior you?
0:33:02 > 0:33:04-- Wychwood Warrior you? It falls on the desk of David Cameron, and it
0:33:05 > 0:33:09was David Cameron not John Whittingdale who made clear promises
0:33:10 > 0:33:14to the country, to Parliament, to the victories of phone hacking, that
0:33:15 > 0:33:18it would be permitted in full -- to the victims of. That is what this
0:33:19 > 0:33:21government is choosing not to do. You think it is not a John
0:33:22 > 0:33:29Whittingdale conflict of interest because it is David Cameron's
0:33:30 > 0:33:35decision? Absolutely. Thank you very much. If you have ever flirted with
0:33:36 > 0:33:38the idea that radio is a feeling medium you would discard that fought
0:33:39 > 0:33:47with the current amount of attention being lavished on Archers. Helen and
0:33:48 > 0:33:53Rob explained why. A slowly developed plotline of the bullying
0:33:54 > 0:34:00husband and eight wife which ends up in violence. We are together, a
0:34:01 > 0:34:04couple. I love him, he loves me and it is over with him and Jess. As
0:34:05 > 0:34:10soon as possible we will be moving in with him. So now you know. Tell
0:34:11 > 0:34:16me, I just want to understand. It looks a bit funny. More than funny,
0:34:17 > 0:34:28you planned an afternoon out with Henry? On a steam train with Henry?
0:34:29 > 0:34:36Yes. And with Kirsty? Yes. Behind my back? Deceivingly? Lying to me about
0:34:37 > 0:34:41it and lying to the school as well? I am sorry, I am sorry. Do you
0:34:42 > 0:34:48relate want to leave? I will show you, do you want to know how you can
0:34:49 > 0:34:58leave? You see this night? Take it! Put it in your hand! Do what Greg
0:34:59 > 0:35:04did, ended all now. Go on, idea you! Because you are nothing without the
0:35:05 > 0:35:08Helen! Nothing! A bit of a spoiler, at one point you will lead to think
0:35:09 > 0:35:12that Helen had killed Rob but tonight we learned that he has not
0:35:13 > 0:35:16only survived but is pulling through after an infection. She will be
0:35:17 > 0:35:22charged with attempted murder, how will this end, don't ask Louiza
0:35:23 > 0:35:26Patikas who plays Helen or the editor of the archers who are here,
0:35:27 > 0:35:34I want to give anything away. How long ago did you know this plotline
0:35:35 > 0:35:39would come to this? About three years ago when I first accepted the
0:35:40 > 0:35:43job. I went to Vanessa Whitburn's house who formerly ran the Archers
0:35:44 > 0:35:47and pitched for the idea and she said we must do it. The next day I
0:35:48 > 0:35:53called one of the writers and spoke about how we might make a tricky
0:35:54 > 0:35:55relationship between Helen and Rob which was not very romantic and we
0:35:56 > 0:35:59find out about this syndrome called gas lighting which is based on the
0:36:00 > 0:36:06play which is effectively coercive control. You had written a book in
0:36:07 > 0:36:12your previous life about a handsome murderer basically? Yes, it is very
0:36:13 > 0:36:18Rob, someone who is an ex-RAF pilot in the Second World War who is
0:36:19 > 0:36:24charming and charismatic and ended up killing two women in 1946. It is
0:36:25 > 0:36:28a fable in some way about not believing the surface and what has
0:36:29 > 0:36:33happened here is the old buy into Rob and his charming hunting,
0:36:34 > 0:36:37shooting, fishing behaviour when in fact, at the beginning of the story
0:36:38 > 0:36:44he seems to be a sort of tall dark and handsome man but he is actually
0:36:45 > 0:36:50rather sinister. Louiza, when did you get let into what was about to
0:36:51 > 0:36:54happen? Was that three years ago? It was slightly drip fed to me as well,
0:36:55 > 0:36:59I had an idea of what might be going on, it was much more true for us
0:37:00 > 0:37:05because we just knew a month in advance pretty much. We are slightly
0:37:06 > 0:37:10ahead of the audience. Your character has changed quite a bit,
0:37:11 > 0:37:14it's quite an revolution, the confidence being taken way, becoming
0:37:15 > 0:37:19more neurotic -- quite an evolution. It has presumably been the most
0:37:20 > 0:37:23interesting thing you have done with the part in the 16 years you have
0:37:24 > 0:37:27been there? She has had a few exciting storylines but I guess you
0:37:28 > 0:37:32are right, it's a dream for any actor to work this sort of material,
0:37:33 > 0:37:38slow burn, highly dramatic peaks, incredibly conceived and written and
0:37:39 > 0:37:42paste. I'm incredibly lucky. Here is a theory about why the attention is
0:37:43 > 0:37:48so focused on it and what makes good soap it's that you been very
0:37:49 > 0:37:52patient. Three years is a long time to be planning it, it's not like it
0:37:53 > 0:37:57is getting boring let's have a domestic violence thing. It's about
0:37:58 > 0:38:00900 episodes which is a lot. It's quite an old-fashioned way of
0:38:01 > 0:38:04telling stories, Charles Dickens used to do serial dramas in all of
0:38:05 > 0:38:07his big novels and people would say to him why do you think they are so
0:38:08 > 0:38:12successful and he would say make them laugh, make them cry and make
0:38:13 > 0:38:16them wait. Holding of satisfaction for the audience is part of the
0:38:17 > 0:38:22reason for its success. We don't try to create a big showdown for
0:38:23 > 0:38:29Christmas or Easter, we drag it out as long as we can. What do you think
0:38:30 > 0:38:35of the reaction, Louiza? It's been a lot, money has been raised for
0:38:36 > 0:38:39domestic abuse, it's extraordinary. Absolutely extraordinary, the
0:38:40 > 0:38:44listeners have been incredible, it is really special what is happening.
0:38:45 > 0:38:49The media coverage as well has been extraordinary, you can never really
0:38:50 > 0:38:52anticipate how the story will land and I think as much as I knew it was
0:38:53 > 0:38:58powerful it has gained its own momentum I think, showing how great
0:38:59 > 0:39:04the show is and more importantly how how vital it is we talk about this
0:39:05 > 0:39:09issue. Do people confuse you and Helen? Never! It's never happened
0:39:10 > 0:39:15yet. I thought your little boy said you tried to stab somebody? He had
0:39:16 > 0:39:21heard from somebody, asked if it was true. Why do you think Rob is like
0:39:22 > 0:39:25he is, what is driving it? It doesn't appear to be sexual jealousy
0:39:26 > 0:39:29in this case. People keep asking what does he want to achieve, he
0:39:30 > 0:39:38wants to achieve control and he is site at it. Why are people like
0:39:39 > 0:39:46that? -- he is psychotic. I think it's a very complex issue, there is
0:39:47 > 0:39:50a book called snakes in suits, when psychopaths go to work and the claim
0:39:51 > 0:39:52that psychopaths are not out there murdering people they are owed
0:39:53 > 0:40:02running big companies or governments. Don't give anything
0:40:03 > 0:40:09away... How do does this go on? We have a lot more to go? Yeah, this is
0:40:10 > 0:40:12just the beginning. It's interesting that people think this is the
0:40:13 > 0:40:20climax, it is just the beginning really. That is very enticing. 16
0:40:21 > 0:40:27years in the archers, how long are you going to keep it going? I hope
0:40:28 > 0:40:36to be as old as June Spencer. She has been in the job since 1950 so a
0:40:37 > 0:40:42few years to go yet. You are allowed to do other things? Yeah, everyone
0:40:43 > 0:40:46does other things as well. Thank you for coming in. That's about all we
0:40:47 > 0:40:53have time for, let's take a quick look at the front pages.
0:40:54 > 0:41:02The daily mirror going quite big on that. Facing investigation after
0:41:03 > 0:41:07taking his lover on a free trip to the MTV awards in Amsterdam. The
0:41:08 > 0:41:13Telegraph believing it is a different scandal, the BBC smeared
0:41:14 > 0:41:19cabinet minister is their lead. The guardian has moved straight off it,
0:41:20 > 0:41:23benefit fraud or tax evasion, row over the tourist targets. Voters
0:41:24 > 0:41:29turn away from EU is trust in Camelon slide is the lead in the
0:41:30 > 0:41:34Times. And the Daily Mail, new foreign aid outrage, not focusing on
0:41:35 > 0:41:38John Whittingdale at all. And the Independent, a generation left
0:41:39 > 0:41:43behind, the UK child poverty shame. That is it, I will be back tomorrow,
0:41:44 > 0:41:47we will have a little bit of Jeremy Corbyn's speech to go on by then I
0:41:48 > 0:41:58expect. Until then, have a very good night.
0:41:59 > 0:41:59England and Wales saw the highest temperatures of the