:00:00. > :00:07.At the end of a week of more questions about the financial
:00:08. > :00:10.and sexual conduct of politicians and the rumour mill in overdrive
:00:11. > :00:19.about a super injunction, what do we have a right to know?
:00:20. > :00:21.Tonight we have more on the financial affairs of Labour
:00:22. > :00:25.And we'll be talking to the deputy editor of the Sunday Times
:00:26. > :00:27.and a lawyer for Hacked Off about privacy.
:00:28. > :00:29.It's a parent's nightmare - having your child taken
:00:30. > :00:32.Have authorities in Norway been too zealous in their approach
:00:33. > :00:34.to child protection, separating families who have
:00:35. > :00:39."Marius, I think they are going to take the baby."
:00:40. > :00:47.And, on the eve of Record Store Day - why does
:00:48. > :00:52.In the Newsnight studio a rare beast - a man who cuts
:00:53. > :01:06.On Newsnight last night we brought you another story of financial
:01:07. > :01:09.morality to add to the rich mix of the Panama Papers.
:01:10. > :01:13.This one concerns not princes, prime ministers and presidents,
:01:14. > :01:15.but a Labour MP, several instances of non-disclosure of very
:01:16. > :01:20.large sums of money and the Labour Party hierarchy,
:01:21. > :01:22.who, when John Sweeney repeatedly asked for an explanation,
:01:23. > :01:27.Ian Lavery has been the MP for Wansbeck since 2010, and before
:01:28. > :01:30.that he was the General Secretary of the National Union
:01:31. > :01:36.As a union official he should have declared his preferential union
:01:37. > :01:40.As an MP he should have declared some very large redundancy figures,
:01:41. > :01:42.but the figures he did declare don't add up.
:01:43. > :01:58.Politicians of right an left are struggling to catch up with the age
:01:59. > :02:01.of transparency. Date dump, embarrassed David Cameron
:02:02. > :02:07.of his father's tax arrange. In Panama. Online disclosures led to
:02:08. > :02:10.Culture Secretary John Whittingdale's outing his own
:02:11. > :02:16.unusual relationship, with a dominatrix.
:02:17. > :02:19.Labour's Ian Lavery seems reluctant to provide complete answers over his
:02:20. > :02:23.redundancy and mortgage arrangements.
:02:24. > :02:27.The books of the union he used to run suggest it paid for his
:02:28. > :02:32.mortgage. Yesterday, we asked him a simple question, did he pay the
:02:33. > :02:39.mortgage off? Did you pay it off? The union... And again. Did you pay
:02:40. > :02:43.off your mortgage? My mortgage was paid off... And again. Had a
:02:44. > :02:48.financial agreement which was acceptable to both parties.
:02:49. > :02:53.Tonight, Mr Lavery got back to us releasing the following statement.
:02:54. > :02:56.The arrangement for accommodation was common for co-union officials
:02:57. > :03:01.across the coalfield. That doesn't answer the question, did he pay off
:03:02. > :03:05.the mortgage? Tonight, Mr Lavery faces fresh questions. Firstly, over
:03:06. > :03:13.whether his mortgage should have been declared on the union's books.
:03:14. > :03:19.Well the statement and annual return requires all benefits, and salary to
:03:20. > :03:25.be set out that are being derived from union funds, therefore, if it
:03:26. > :03:28.is right that that is a benefit and certainly a subsidised mortgage
:03:29. > :03:31.could be well be regarded as a benefit, then in those
:03:32. > :03:35.circumstances, I think it should have been set out on the statement
:03:36. > :03:39.and annual return. There is another weird thing. Last
:03:40. > :03:43.night just before Newsnight went on air, a Labour official told us to
:03:44. > :03:48.find out about the mortgage, all we had do was get in touch with the NUM
:03:49. > :03:53.North East area based in Durham. Today we did so, and they told us
:03:54. > :03:58.they had nothing to do with Mr Lavery's mortgage.
:03:59. > :04:02.Mr Lavery is already under investigation by the Parliamentary
:04:03. > :04:07.commissioner for standards, over his failure to declare 62,00 pounds in
:04:08. > :04:12.redundancy payments he received from 2010-2012. And then there is the
:04:13. > :04:17.mystery 85,00 pounds, redundancy payment, which pops up on the
:04:18. > :04:23.union's books in 2013. Here is what he said about it, when we challenged
:04:24. > :04:27.him on it yesterday. So the 85,00 pounds, it is a mystery. Well it is
:04:28. > :04:36.not a mystery to me. I haven't got any control. I left in 2010. I have
:04:37. > :04:39.told you two time, I will tell you three, four times I don't recognise
:04:40. > :04:42.that payment. You don't recognise that payment. So it's a mystery
:04:43. > :04:51.payment? You can call it whatever you want. I will tell you that... It
:04:52. > :04:54.is given to, it says in the books, payment for former, past General
:04:55. > :04:59.Secretary redundancy costs. You have one on me, I haven't seen the book
:05:00. > :05:05.since I left in 2010. To be fair he did tell us he did receive what he
:05:06. > :05:09.called the final payment of my redundancy in 2013. But not how
:05:10. > :05:14.much. Did Mr Lavery record this 2013
:05:15. > :05:19.redundancy payment to the Parliamentary register of members'
:05:20. > :05:24.interests? He did not. So, big questions remain for Mr Lavery and
:05:25. > :05:30.the Labour Party. How much was the redundancy payment in 2013? If it
:05:31. > :05:36.wasn't ?85,000? Why didn't he declare it to Parliament? And how
:05:37. > :05:41.does Jeremy Corbyn square calls for more prance transz barn is when he
:05:42. > :05:45.has a trade union spokesperson who refuses to tell us clearly, whether
:05:46. > :05:50.Well, the question of how much people have the right to know
:05:51. > :05:53.about the lives of public figures has loomed large, not just for MPs,
:05:54. > :05:57.The decision on whether to lift an injunction on reporting of one
:05:58. > :05:59.well-known celebrity's alleged extramarital affairs will be given
:06:00. > :06:03.Here to discuss the difficulty of finding a balance between press
:06:04. > :06:06.freedom and the right to a private life are Sarah Baxter,
:06:07. > :06:08.deputy editor of the Sunday Times, and privacy lawyer
:06:09. > :06:17.Good evening to both of you. Where do you stand on what people have the
:06:18. > :06:22.right to know about people in public life? Sarah? I stand in favour of
:06:23. > :06:30.maximum freedom, and the right to know. I don't think we should be
:06:31. > :06:34.too, we shouldn't sensor ourselves and think, this story is not quite
:06:35. > :06:38.right for the public, I think the public pay good money to read good
:06:39. > :06:44.stories and our buyers should be in Fay of disclosure. This is? Terms of
:06:45. > :06:48.politician, public figure, who say one thing and do another. Where is
:06:49. > :06:51.your line in the sand about who you report on is this We make the
:06:52. > :06:57.judgments all the time but pretty much even in this world says one
:06:58. > :07:02.thing and does another if you look closely, with celebrities, I used to
:07:03. > :07:09.edit the Sunday Times magazine, you wouldn't believe the amount of PR
:07:10. > :07:14.control that goes on. Every day I was in hand-to-hand combat with PRs
:07:15. > :07:18.saying you can't say this. They would try, we were one of the few
:07:19. > :07:22.publications that wouldn't given copy approval, so then they turn
:07:23. > :07:26.round and say hang on, when we have a story that is interesting to
:07:27. > :07:32.reader, they don't want you do know about it I am not sympathetic. You
:07:33. > :07:36.take the same view? I don't. , I think it depend what the Tory is
:07:37. > :07:42.about. I know you say good monetary policy for good stories. We don't
:07:43. > :07:46.pay for stories on the Sunday Times. I suns you say your eunderstand you
:07:47. > :07:51.say your readers pay good money. Some stories are not in the public
:07:52. > :07:57.interest and also the public aren't interested in them. I wonder, what
:07:58. > :08:01.the drive for greater transparency has come from is it because we don't
:08:02. > :08:06.trust politicians any more, or is it because we are a much less
:08:07. > :08:09.deferential society and rightly less deferential? 'T trust politicians
:08:10. > :08:11.any more, or is it because we are a much less deferential society and
:08:12. > :08:13.rightly less deferential? I would "degree with that, and the thing
:08:14. > :08:17.about the internet and twitter and blogs is it gives far Mr People a
:08:18. > :08:20.voice, and that voice, I think has become a democratic voice, so it is
:08:21. > :08:25.not just what the newspaper has printed and what is on the front
:08:26. > :08:30.cover we hear about, and that we discuss, and that I think has led to
:08:31. > :08:33.greater transparency but it there is, I think a big difference between
:08:34. > :08:38.scrutiny and transparency, where you have something that is in the public
:08:39. > :08:45.interest, a public figure and an entertainer and their private life.
:08:46. > :08:51.Let us talk about the MP Ian Lavery here, because we have talked about
:08:52. > :08:55.whether or not he told the yuen -- union, about his morn and also
:08:56. > :09:01.whether he disclosed in Parliament. At what point do you start
:09:02. > :09:06.investigating someone who is now in public life, because if you went
:09:07. > :09:10.right back to Year Zero, a lot of people wouldn't go into public life
:09:11. > :09:15.because not even has a clean past. Of course the Sunday Times has been
:09:16. > :09:18.investigating Ian Lavery. My colleague James Lyons did an
:09:19. > :09:23.excellent job of exposing some of the things that were going on at the
:09:24. > :09:28.Northumberland numb which now only has six members yet spent a lot of
:09:29. > :09:31.voluntary contributions from miners who had industrial injuries on
:09:32. > :09:35.paying the wages of staff. So where we see a scandal, there is no
:09:36. > :09:38.statute of limitation. Do you think... That should be a lesson to
:09:39. > :09:42.people who are thinking of wrongdoing. Do you think that would
:09:43. > :09:46.put people off going into public service, from the point of view when
:09:47. > :09:50.they start they would expect to be scrutinised but in a previous life,
:09:51. > :09:54.do they expect their previous life to come for attention? I think in
:09:55. > :09:59.that case if you are already a public figure and a union loader at
:10:00. > :10:04.the time it is not... A public official. It is not appropriate.
:10:05. > :10:08.However if you are at university and during your time at university, you
:10:09. > :10:13.have various private conversations you go to parties and you are not a
:10:14. > :10:16.public figures in fact you haven't decided what you are going to do.
:10:17. > :10:22.Everyone can find out about it because of coarse you can say public
:10:23. > :10:26.domain on Facebook, how much scrutiny, you have to have the
:10:27. > :10:33.personal Auton hi to be able to without being in fear. Do you agree
:10:34. > :10:38.that? I don't. The more transparent we are becoming, the more tolerant
:10:39. > :10:44.we are become, I am sure it doesn't feel like that to speech who have
:10:45. > :10:50.had a minor misdemeanor and are pulling up years later. I think you
:10:51. > :10:55.can laugh things off. If you are looking to victims of the press and
:10:56. > :10:58.you can see the effect it has on their life it makes you take a
:10:59. > :11:03.different view. Now the case of John Whittingdale. Interestingly, I think
:11:04. > :11:07.you probably take a different view on this. John Whittingdale had a
:11:08. > :11:12.relationship with a woman who turned out to be a sex worker, that
:11:13. > :11:16.relationship finished, a good while before he then became Culture
:11:17. > :11:21.Secretary. But the fact was he was looking at press regulation and
:11:22. > :11:29.papers knew about what was going on, is he a legitimate cause for
:11:30. > :11:33.investigation? What I find out is astonishing which Hacked Off which
:11:34. > :11:40.Charlotte was involved with which exposed hip. He was a single man,
:11:41. > :11:48.with a girl who he claims hid, he didn't know... So, I think the point
:11:49. > :11:51.of this is the decisions they seemed to be very surprising, that the
:11:52. > :12:00.independent decisions were made not to run the story. It wasn't
:12:01. > :12:04.surprising at all. At the same time at the Brooks Newmark. What hacked
:12:05. > :12:09.off were saying it was about editorial... It would have felt
:12:10. > :12:13.personal to him. Going through the courts at the moment and due on
:12:14. > :12:17.Monday, is a decision over a privacy injunction that was challenged by a
:12:18. > :12:21.newspaper in your stable, a well-known male celebrity and it is
:12:22. > :12:26.all over the internet but not in The Papers and not on Newsnight. Where
:12:27. > :12:32.is the public interest in that? I think there is no public interest in
:12:33. > :12:35.that story. I think that if you make a private decision within your
:12:36. > :12:41.relationship, that you are going to open your relationship out, you
:12:42. > :12:45.shouldn't be under some kind of duty to send some kind of Press
:12:46. > :12:48.Association message saying we have had this conversation, you have to
:12:49. > :12:53.have personal autonomy in your relationship. I am not worried that
:12:54. > :12:59.John Whittingdale's relationship has doll light. I am not worried if this
:13:00. > :13:03.injunction is lifted and we hear more about this celebrity couple. I
:13:04. > :13:08.really think in the end people will say, now, what was that, why, it is
:13:09. > :13:14.nice work for lawyer, they are earning a lot of money fighting
:13:15. > :13:18.privacy case, but really, it is like, you know, Canute holding back
:13:19. > :13:21.the tide when the internet has the details. If you say look, you can
:13:22. > :13:26.read it somewhere else, what position are they left in, if they
:13:27. > :13:32.can't assert their right? People will turn round and say we can
:13:33. > :13:33.publish what we like. If they are embarrassed about their behaviour
:13:34. > :13:40.they need not indulge in it. Five people from Birmingham have
:13:41. > :13:42.been arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences,
:13:43. > :13:44.as part of an investigation launched after the recent attacks
:13:45. > :13:46.in Brussels and Paris. One of the men was arrested as he
:13:47. > :13:50.arrived on a flight into Gatwick. We understand the arrests
:13:51. > :13:52.were as a result of co-operation between MI5 and the French
:13:53. > :13:54.and Belgian authorities. Our reporter Secunder
:13:55. > :13:59.Kermani is here. What do you know about this? What we
:14:00. > :14:04.know is that three men and a woman were arrested last night in
:14:05. > :14:09.Birmingham. That another man was arrested this morning as he arrived
:14:10. > :14:15.at Gatwick Airport. He was flying in from Morocco. Police have been
:14:16. > :14:20.searching a property in Birmingham and bomb disposal experts were
:14:21. > :14:27.called briefly, but police say they have no information that an imminent
:14:28. > :14:35.attack was planned in the UK. But Whitehall officials say the arrests
:14:36. > :14:40.are significant and part of an extensive investigation into the
:14:41. > :14:47.attacks in Paris and Brussels and they say as well that the Moroccan,
:14:48. > :14:51.I have learned that Moroccan intelligence services were involved.
:14:52. > :14:56.What new details have you learned about the suspects? What we have to
:14:57. > :14:59.bear in mind is the suspects haven't been charged yet. The police are at
:15:00. > :15:05.an early stage of the investigation. But I have been speaking to a well
:15:06. > :15:10.placed source who says that the members of this group that were
:15:11. > :15:14.arrested are suspected of being involved in the logistical support
:15:15. > :15:20.for the attacks in Paris and in Brussels. And I understand that the
:15:21. > :15:23.group was under surveillance for a number of months, but they were
:15:24. > :15:28.allowed to continue so the authorities could see who they were
:15:29. > :15:35.interacting. And that came to an end when one of the members flew back
:15:36. > :15:36.into the UK. They're still yet to be charged and a decision will be made
:15:37. > :15:40.over the weekend. Thank you. This week the name of 21-month-old
:15:41. > :15:43.Ayeesha Jane Smith was added to the list of toddlers and young
:15:44. > :15:46.children killed by relatives known to the social services -
:15:47. > :15:51.everyone remembers Victoria Climbie and Baby P, and there
:15:52. > :15:53.are sadly many others. Ayeesha's mother, Kathryn Smith,
:15:54. > :15:56.will serve a minimum of 24 years for viciously
:15:57. > :16:00.torturing her daughter to death. Every day social workers have
:16:01. > :16:04.to make difficult judgements, and when they are looking at best
:16:05. > :16:07.practice, Norway's often cited as a country that devotes more
:16:08. > :16:09.attention and resources Thirty-five years ago, for example,
:16:10. > :16:14.it was the first state in the world to appoint a children's ombudsman -
:16:15. > :16:17.an independent official to protect their rights,
:16:18. > :16:19.an idea that's been copied in the UK But now the country's social
:16:20. > :16:29.services are being accused by campaigners at home and abroad
:16:30. > :16:32.of an excess of zeal - of taking children into care
:16:33. > :16:34.without good reason. It is a house that had
:16:35. > :16:47.five children. Their father plays
:16:48. > :16:52.one of his favourite songs - not to entertain anyone,
:16:53. > :16:57.just to calm his nerves. Their two girls aged eight and ten,
:16:58. > :17:05.their two boys aged two and five and their baby
:17:06. > :17:11.were taken away in November. And Ruth and Marius's
:17:12. > :17:16.world fell apart. I was waiting for the girls to come
:17:17. > :17:22.home from school. And it passed 10 or 15 minutes
:17:23. > :17:26.and they didn't come. I saw it came, two black cars,
:17:27. > :17:33.one continued driving on the Inside the car was a child
:17:34. > :17:42.protection officer. She said the two girls had
:17:43. > :17:45.been taken away in the other black car and two older boys
:17:46. > :17:49.were being taken away too. They still had the baby,
:17:50. > :17:53.but not for much longer. It was the second day in the evening
:17:54. > :17:57.we saw two cars driving here and two black cars again and I said,
:17:58. > :18:04.they have brought the kids home. Were you excited, you got really
:18:05. > :18:07.excited when you saw those cars? Then I saw four policemen
:18:08. > :18:13.coming out of the car. I told Marius, I think they're
:18:14. > :18:15.going to We were questioned about why
:18:16. > :18:33.they were in the home. We admitted spanking
:18:34. > :18:35.the kids, but not... Not every time when they would
:18:36. > :18:39.do something bad. They didn't find any
:18:40. > :18:43.physical marks or anything like that when they had
:18:44. > :18:47.medical examination of them. It's very clear until
:18:48. > :18:54.the smallest detail. It is not allowed for any
:18:55. > :18:59.physical correction. Their lawyers wouldn't let me ask
:19:00. > :19:02.any more questions, because they're still under investigation
:19:03. > :19:04.and the authorities aren't allowed to discuss this or any other
:19:05. > :19:06.individual case to protect Beginning on November
:19:07. > :19:14.16th when the Norwegian authority for child protection,
:19:15. > :19:17.the Barnevernet, had taken away Claims that Marius and Ruth's kids
:19:18. > :19:26.and hundreds of others have been taken without reason have triggered
:19:27. > :19:31.demonstrations all over the world. Even if the protestors
:19:32. > :19:34.can't know all the facts. The campaign's strong abroad,
:19:35. > :19:36.because Marius is an immigrant from Romania and the
:19:37. > :19:39.couple belonged to an evangelical Christian community
:19:40. > :19:44.with global links. But in Norway today,
:19:45. > :19:45.there are solid members of
:19:46. > :19:48.the establishment who also think the country's child
:19:49. > :19:53.protection system is out of control. Ingla is head of state archive
:19:54. > :19:57.in the city of Bergen. I grew up believing
:19:58. > :20:00.that the Norwegian system was the best in the world,
:20:01. > :20:03.best for children. The UN are stating
:20:04. > :20:06.that all the time. Then suddenly I discovered that this
:20:07. > :20:11.cannot be the case, and that was because of
:20:12. > :20:14.things that happened in my Because of what happened to this
:20:15. > :20:18.little girl, his grand daughter, who was taken
:20:19. > :20:22.away several years ago. The Norwegian child child protection
:20:23. > :20:24.service known as Barnevernet said But that is not how
:20:25. > :20:34.it looked to Ingla. So this was the passive,
:20:35. > :20:41.non-sounding child. How long is this
:20:42. > :20:44.before she was taken? This is in the middle
:20:45. > :20:46.of November, so this is is basically
:20:47. > :20:51.two months before she was taken. She was put into
:20:52. > :20:54.emergency fostering, because the child protection service
:20:55. > :20:56.said she was suffering serious psychological harm, because her
:20:57. > :20:58.parents count meet her They said her mother, who is from
:20:59. > :21:05.China and has now gone back there, was depressed and her father,
:21:06. > :21:09.Eric, was simple, though he has never been diagnosed with any
:21:10. > :21:12.condition, other than a slight lack of short-term memory
:21:13. > :21:18.when he was small. I did everything, I changed nappies,
:21:19. > :21:23.I change nappies and I Just days before child
:21:24. > :21:30.protection started their urgent assessment of the family,
:21:31. > :21:33.a doctor at the local health clinic found the little girl
:21:34. > :21:35.was developing normally, but Barnevernet said
:21:36. > :21:37.later that even if they had known that it
:21:38. > :21:40.wouldn't have affected their We put forward a huge report
:21:41. > :21:45.on my son's psychological They haven't mentioned
:21:46. > :21:56.that by one word. So they're closing
:21:57. > :22:02.their eyes and they say that we can only rely
:22:03. > :22:10.the assessments that these persons working for Barnevernet have made.
:22:11. > :22:16.Of course, parents whose children are taken into care in any country
:22:17. > :22:18.are nearly always angry with the system, but I'm astonished
:22:19. > :22:22.It devotes more resources and attention to children
:22:23. > :22:26.and their rights than almost any country on earth and child
:22:27. > :22:29.protection usually just provides guidance to parents with problems,
:22:30. > :22:32.it is only in what they regard as extreme cases they they seek
:22:33. > :22:36.The number of children and young people taken forcibly into
:22:37. > :22:46.Partly as a reaction to the state's failure to protect an eight-year-old
:22:47. > :22:50.boy, Christopher, who was beaten to death by his step father in 2005.
:22:51. > :22:56.More than 150 leading Norwegian professionals
:22:57. > :23:01.- psychologists, lawyers social work experts -
:23:02. > :23:04.have written a letter saying the child protection service
:23:05. > :23:06.is a dysfunctional organisation that makes major miscalculations with
:23:07. > :23:14.So how does the Norwegian Government feel about
:23:15. > :23:22.We don't have many children in alternative care, compared to, for
:23:23. > :23:28.So why there is so much attention to the Norwegian system?
:23:29. > :23:35.There is evidence that parents say isn't accepted.
:23:36. > :23:38.That is a concern we looking into and that is why we want
:23:39. > :23:42.to look into the child welfare to see what goes wrong and also
:23:43. > :23:46.Could children be taken off parents simply because
:23:47. > :23:58.the parents had exercised mild corporal punishment.
:23:59. > :24:01.It is important we have programmes helping parents
:24:02. > :24:05.avoiding to use corporal punishment in the child's upbringing.
:24:06. > :24:09.That is actually an answer to your question.
:24:10. > :24:12.But parents have to know the law and live by the law in Norway.
:24:13. > :24:23.Ruth and Marius's background is religious.
:24:24. > :24:28.All her family are Pentecostals and he is a foreigner from Romania.
:24:29. > :24:32.Their supporters think they're victims of discrimination and in
:24:33. > :24:34.Norway children with an immigrant parent are four times more likely
:24:35. > :24:38.than others to be removed by force from their families.
:24:39. > :24:40.But there is no means of knowing if cultural
:24:41. > :24:43.difference has been a factor in this case, or the others I have
:24:44. > :24:47.Child protection denies any prejudice.
:24:48. > :24:49.After the children were taken, Ruth and Marius say
:24:50. > :24:54.they offered to fix whatever needed fixing about the way
:24:55. > :24:58.But they said child protection didn't even want to
:24:59. > :25:00.discuss trying to reunite the family.
:25:01. > :25:04.Now though, since we filmed with the couple, their baby son has
:25:05. > :25:11.But they fear there is still a long way to go before they know whether
:25:12. > :25:16.the other four children will ever be returned.
:25:17. > :25:19.And you can see a longer version of Tim Whewell's report from Norway
:25:20. > :25:22.on Our World on Saturday and Sunday evening at 9.30pm on
:25:23. > :25:28.Sales of vinyl are up more than 60% this year,
:25:29. > :25:30.and Record Store Day, which is tomorrow, has become
:25:31. > :25:35.But an ICM survey has revealed that almost half the people who buy vinyl
:25:36. > :25:41.So what is the allure of vinyl, that artists from Foals
:25:42. > :25:44.to Primal Scream to Kanye West are choosing it for their new releases?
:25:45. > :25:46.Is it about the sound, or the artwork, or is vinyl
:25:47. > :26:06.Joining me is Frank merit, who runs a studio and says last year they had
:26:07. > :26:15.a backlog of orders for five months. You have vinyl with you. What do you
:26:16. > :26:22.have? Myles Davis, Kind of Blue. A classic record. What about the
:26:23. > :26:32.quality of vinyl versus down load. From a bit size, an mp3 is about the
:26:33. > :26:37.tenth of a size of a CD final and vinyl is infit nit in its quality.
:26:38. > :26:43.Why are people buying vinyl, but half are buying it and don't listen
:26:44. > :26:50.to that music on vinyl? It doesn't surprise me, I think it is to do
:26:51. > :26:54.with ownership and the fact that we remember as vinyl buyers, we
:26:55. > :27:00.remember our first record. Do you remember your first record? Yes The
:27:01. > :27:04.Kinks Dead End Street. I can remember the shop and the time of
:27:05. > :27:12.year. It was a thing. What about you? Europe The Final Count down!
:27:13. > :27:19.But it was something and a lot of it to me was about the album covers and
:27:20. > :27:25.the art which is being re-created on CDs, but it is different on vinyl.
:27:26. > :27:33.You have a large format and you can really go to down on your design and
:27:34. > :27:40.you know here the sleeve is on both sides and it opens up, double
:27:41. > :27:46.sleeve. Beautiful artwork. Yes. Importantly as well, we remember our
:27:47. > :27:53.first records. Who remembers their first mp3? That lot of people buy
:27:54. > :27:59.vinyl and don't own a record player. That is the ownership aspect, one
:28:00. > :28:04.wants to give ones support to musicians and to small independent
:28:05. > :28:08.labels who you know, they don't make much from making records, the
:28:09. > :28:14.profits are low. And it is a passion that people want to. That whole
:28:15. > :28:20.thing about trying to get people back to vinyl, such as The Foals
:28:21. > :28:24.releasing EPs on vinyl and then on to down load, are they doing that
:28:25. > :28:30.because it is a passion for vinyl, or because they feel is a cachet and
:28:31. > :28:34.they want people to feel that? It goes back to ownership aspect and it
:28:35. > :28:39.shows commitment and that someone is going to go to a shop or buy a
:28:40. > :28:43.physical product and own it and they're going to love that product
:28:44. > :28:48.and feel it. The texture of the sleeve. It ages and reacts to its
:28:49. > :28:54.environment. If you mistreat a record it will get crackly. If you
:28:55. > :29:00.love it and look after it, it will play beautifully. Is this going to
:29:01. > :29:06.be, you say you have a bag log of orders, do you think we are going
:29:07. > :29:14.back to vinyl completely? No, I don't think so. Vinyl sales globally
:29:15. > :29:23.are around the two to three per cent mark of audio sales. Like you have
:29:24. > :29:28.your kindle and your book? Yes, vinyl, record sales are on the up,
:29:29. > :29:36.50% on average each year. And record players are also on the up. Thank
:29:37. > :29:43.you. Time for a one paper tomorrow morning and is the The Times and it
:29:44. > :29:50.is another financial story, it is the Blair rich project and there are
:29:51. > :29:53.secret trusts for Tony Blair's earnings.
:29:54. > :29:56.That's almost all we have time for tonight, but before we go,
:29:57. > :29:59.an extraordinary piece of public art has emerged in the Egyptian
:30:00. > :30:01.capital of Cairo - a mural, spreading over 50 buildings.
:30:02. > :30:03.The artist, El Seed, managed to evade government censorship
:30:04. > :30:06.by painting his mural in fragments and working in a poor,
:30:07. > :30:09.often overlooked area of the city, where Egypt's