:00:00. > :00:07.President Obama lands in London, on the next leg of his foreign tour.
:00:08. > :00:09.But is anyone listening to a president with
:00:10. > :00:14.And will those who come after him cement the deals he's made
:00:15. > :00:19.As the race to replace him fast approaches, we ask our Atlantic
:00:20. > :00:21.facing guests what they think American foreign policy
:00:22. > :00:36.# This is what it sounds like when doves cry...
:00:37. > :00:41.We remember the artist now forever known as Prince.
:00:42. > :00:47.We'll be joined live by singer Mica Paris
:00:48. > :00:59.And, in her 90 years, has the Queen witnessed or even prompted the quiet
:01:00. > :01:06.death of the republican movement? Where are they now? Tony Blair
:01:07. > :01:09.expelled me from the Labour Party and she agreed to come and open City
:01:10. > :01:27.Hall. The Queen is above politics. President Obama has arrived at the
:01:28. > :01:30.US Embassy in London bringing the British leg of his foreign policy
:01:31. > :01:35.tour and a meeting with David Cameron. Don't be surprised if the
:01:36. > :01:40.air is frosty. This bilateral will mark the first full meeting between
:01:41. > :01:44.the two metres since Obama, in a candid interview, accused Cameron of
:01:45. > :01:49.failing to pull his weight in the Libyan crisis of 2011, words which
:01:50. > :01:52.may have gone deeper than publicly acknowledged. His expected
:01:53. > :01:58.intervention on Brexit may have soothed some quarters but the
:01:59. > :02:03.meeting is also expected to address Libya, counterterrorism and a future
:02:04. > :02:09.strategy to counter Isis, but could what is sealed to day be completely
:02:10. > :02:13.torn up in a post Obama world? Mark urban looks back at his foreign
:02:14. > :02:22.policy legacy and asks how much of it will stick.
:02:23. > :02:29.You would expect a president to rack up the air miles. Barack Obama is no
:02:30. > :02:32.exception. He is in Britain for the fifth time as president to talk
:02:33. > :02:42.about the challenges facing Europe and with time running out for him to
:02:43. > :02:45.add to his list of legacies. In the past hour, he landed at Stansted,
:02:46. > :02:51.flying in from Saudi Arabia, where he'd been discussing tackling the
:02:52. > :02:56.Islamic State group. One of those issues he could never having
:02:57. > :03:01.dissipated when elected. Barack Obama had all kinds of ideas of what
:03:02. > :03:06.he was going to do when he came into office, only to see the financial
:03:07. > :03:13.crisis develop, you know, literally during the transition. It was
:03:14. > :03:18.completely absorbing. George Bush thought he would have one kind of
:03:19. > :03:22.presidency and suddenly he had 9/11. The world has a way of confounding
:03:23. > :03:29.what every new president wishes to do. That battle taking US forces
:03:30. > :03:34.back into Iraq is just one area where events have conspired to
:03:35. > :03:43.frustrate the agenda he set out at the start of his presidency. The
:03:44. > :03:48.world, as Obama wanted to remake it, involved a pivot Asia, not just
:03:49. > :03:51.China but south-east Asia as well. That meant repositioning, diplomacy,
:03:52. > :03:56.trade and the military, away from the Middle East, a path that was to
:03:57. > :04:01.be smoothed by winding down the war in Iraq and we setting the
:04:02. > :04:06.relationship in Iran. There was to be less Europe as well. A military
:04:07. > :04:11.drawdown and another reset, this time with Russia, to soothe
:04:12. > :04:16.remaining tensions. That isn't how it turned out. Only some of these
:04:17. > :04:21.aspirations proved realistic. We will give him credit for a number of
:04:22. > :04:26.things, although they are unfinished business, for example, the Iran
:04:27. > :04:35.deal, getting the millstone of an unsustainable Cuba policy of our
:04:36. > :04:42.neck, making a pre-deal with China on climate before the Paris climate
:04:43. > :04:47.summit. Those are some of the high points. How did Obama's world
:04:48. > :04:51.actually turn out? A list of presidential trips still shows
:04:52. > :04:56.Europe way out front. His most visited country, whisper it in
:04:57. > :05:03.Whitehall, has been France. But the UK and Germany also figure highly.
:05:04. > :05:08.Today, US troops are going back into Europe at Russia reset failed, and
:05:09. > :05:15.back into Iraq as well. Much the same has happened in Afghanistan,
:05:16. > :05:20.visited four times, while China has figured just twice, with a third
:05:21. > :05:27.trip planned. There has been the nuclear deal with Iran and, late in
:05:28. > :05:32.his term, Cuba has been written in as a dark horse diplomatic coup. But
:05:33. > :05:36.even these achievements could be rehearsed and, indeed, a hostile
:05:37. > :05:41.Congress and presidential challenger have said they will do just that. We
:05:42. > :05:52.will totally dismantle Iran's global terror network, which is big and
:05:53. > :05:55.powerful but not powerful like us. Perhaps the greatest challenge for
:05:56. > :06:00.President Obama has been a custom in Americans to the limits of their
:06:01. > :06:04.country's power, when so much of their political discourse emphasises
:06:05. > :06:14.its greatness. These are not things that are easily accepted by a large
:06:15. > :06:18.nation with a very rich history, particularly the history of the
:06:19. > :06:22.post-war period. And, you know, it is tough, too, against the backdrop
:06:23. > :06:30.of American partisan divides right now, where one side of the aisle is
:06:31. > :06:34.defining greatness in largely military terms. President Obama has
:06:35. > :06:39.acknowledged his foreign policy is a work in progress and much will
:06:40. > :06:42.depend on his successor. Given the possible choice between Trump and
:06:43. > :06:44.Clinton, the question of how much of a legacy would remain would not be
:06:45. > :06:46.much darker. Joining us now, Bruce Jentleson,
:06:47. > :06:49.who worked at the State Department under Hillary Clinton and is now
:06:50. > :06:51.Henry Kissinger Chair in Foreign Policy at the Library
:06:52. > :06:54.of Congress, and David Graham, who covers the US election
:06:55. > :07:05.and global news for the Atlantic. Welcome. Thank you. It was
:07:06. > :07:10.interesting hearing Mark calling this a work in progress. Bruce
:07:11. > :07:15.Jentleson, how different do you think American foreign policy would
:07:16. > :07:20.look under a Clinton presidency? There would be elements, a fair
:07:21. > :07:25.amount of continuity, and there would be some change. When Hillary
:07:26. > :07:28.Clinton was secretary of state for President Obama, they worked
:07:29. > :07:32.together and agreed on any number of issues, and there have been some on
:07:33. > :07:38.which they disagreed. Let me use Syria as an example. In late 2012
:07:39. > :07:42.after the presidential election, Secretary Clinton was among those
:07:43. > :07:46.pushing for the United States to establish a safe haven and a no-fly
:07:47. > :07:52.zone, to give more aid to the opposition, while at the same time
:07:53. > :07:56.pursuing aggressive diplomacy. That remains her position. President
:07:57. > :07:59.Obama has chosen not to do that. In some respects, I think she would be
:08:00. > :08:04.looking for a different balance point between the use of force and
:08:05. > :08:09.diplomacy. That is one issue that illustrate it. Let me make you more
:08:10. > :08:14.candid. When you are looking at something like Mosul under Isis,
:08:15. > :08:20.Libya, the next one on the map, are you saying basically she would go in
:08:21. > :08:24.way he would fear to tread? Not at all. This isn't about mass American
:08:25. > :08:29.ground troops like George Bush in Iraq. It is a question of how you
:08:30. > :08:35.mount a course of diplomacy strategy, in which you raise the
:08:36. > :08:38.pressure in Syria on Assad, and to a certain extent on the Russians, to
:08:39. > :08:42.try and come to the table with them and get a political transition.
:08:43. > :08:47.There is no way there is a military solution to Syria but a bit more
:08:48. > :08:51.coercion can help. How successful do you think Obama has been with his
:08:52. > :08:55.relationships and where is there room for improvement in terms of
:08:56. > :09:00.what comes next? I think it varies a lot from region to region. His
:09:01. > :09:05.relationship with Israel has not been as strong as some craziness --
:09:06. > :09:10.some previous presidents. Many will tell you that is positive, others
:09:11. > :09:14.will say it is negative. Use the ups and downs with David Cameron, with
:09:15. > :09:19.Angela Merkel with surveillance issues. And you see some bright
:09:20. > :09:23.spots, improvement with Iran, opening to Cuba, so across the globe
:09:24. > :09:28.you get a real range of stronger and weaker positions. If we are not
:09:29. > :09:34.talking about a Clinton presidency, let's say, about a Trump or a Cruz
:09:35. > :09:39.presidency, how much of this would stick Mr Mock would we see the Iran
:09:40. > :09:46.deal torn up all the Cuba bingo? Is this primary talk? With Donald
:09:47. > :09:50.Trump, it is clear we would be seeing something different, but what
:09:51. > :09:55.exactly is a bit unclear, because he speaks in such generalities. He says
:09:56. > :09:59.for example that he would not care up the Iran deal but he would
:10:00. > :10:05.renegotiate it. What exactly that means it's hard to tell. We know he
:10:06. > :10:09.would take a hard line with China. He seems to want to have a close
:10:10. > :10:13.relationship with Russia. But he speaks with so few details it is
:10:14. > :10:19.hard to tell exactly what the pivot away from Obama would be. Do you see
:10:20. > :10:25.a Republican presidency as being more isolationist than a democratic
:10:26. > :10:32.one? I think it is worse than that. It isn't isolationism if the United
:10:33. > :10:37.States comes home. It is bullying. Build a wall and make Mexico pay,
:10:38. > :10:45.but 45 increase on imports from China... Do you really believe that
:10:46. > :10:49.rhetoric in your heart? That is what he said and we can only go on that.
:10:50. > :10:54.It has been sufficiently credible that over 120 Republican foreign
:10:55. > :10:58.policy professionals said they would work for him. He might try and
:10:59. > :11:02.strike various deals as he tries to go to the election, but that is his
:11:03. > :11:10.attitude. Fundamentally, it is his temperament. There is a ready, fire,
:11:11. > :11:13.aim to Trump but I think would be very dangerous on almost any foreign
:11:14. > :11:20.policy issue. Where'd you think the European relationships would go?
:11:21. > :11:24.Obama seems to like France more than the UK, perhaps. Do you think there
:11:25. > :11:28.is work to do in repairing the relationship with Cameron, and do
:11:29. > :11:34.you think that Hillary Clinton would be interested in putting Europe
:11:35. > :11:36.higher up the priority list? My sense is that she would like to
:11:37. > :11:46.repair those relationships. The Russian ship may be a bit stronger
:11:47. > :11:49.during his first term, which she was running the state department. -- the
:11:50. > :11:53.relationship. Obama has this deep scepticism of what the US can do,
:11:54. > :11:55.and I think you see less of that with Clinton, so you might see a
:11:56. > :11:59.different engagement with the world. "Dearly beloved, we are gathered
:12:00. > :12:01.here today to get through this The lyrics of Prince's Let's Go
:12:02. > :12:05.Crazy have bolted back into the music world's collective
:12:06. > :12:08.consciousness tonight after his death was
:12:09. > :12:11.announced at the age of 57. He became one of the most
:12:12. > :12:12.pioneering, popular, inimitable voices of the '80s
:12:13. > :12:16.and '90s and beyond. His music could be haunting,
:12:17. > :12:19.his stage presence He redefined gender
:12:20. > :12:24.and his own identity, most notably changing his name
:12:25. > :12:27.to a symbol to remove himself from contractual obligations
:12:28. > :12:31.with his record label. Put aside, for a moment,
:12:32. > :12:33.your concerns about what on earth is happening to our artists
:12:34. > :13:03.in the year 2016 and remember just There was Elvis in his jumpsuit,
:13:04. > :13:09.James brown in a cape, but nobody looked, sounded or, dare I say,
:13:10. > :13:13.smells more like a rock star than Prince. You would call him Snape
:13:14. > :13:18.kept that he would probably save that made him sad fact.
:13:19. > :13:24.# She's never satisfied # Why do we scream at each other?
:13:25. > :13:32.# This is what it sounds like when doves cry...
:13:33. > :13:36.He sold 100 million records, he won seven Grammys and an Oscar, and he
:13:37. > :13:47.went through names rapidly, jettisoning them when they didn't
:13:48. > :13:56.suit him any more. # You've got the butterflies... Most
:13:57. > :14:04.people don't get famous with one name and then change it. What is the
:14:05. > :14:10.story? Well, I had to search deep within my heart and spirit and I
:14:11. > :14:14.wanted to make a change and move to a new plateau in my life, and one of
:14:15. > :14:19.the ways I did that was to change my name. It sort of divorced me from
:14:20. > :14:25.the past and all the hang-ups that go with it.
:14:26. > :14:34.# I only want to see you laughing in the purple rain
:14:35. > :14:41.# Purple rain, purple rain # Purple rain... Prince, or whatever
:14:42. > :14:50.alias he happened to be serving under, right, he could he could
:14:51. > :14:53.play. -- he could write, he could sing, he could play. An older
:14:54. > :14:58.generation of tax legends took notice. At a time when I thought
:14:59. > :15:04.that rock and roll was dead and then I went to see Purple Rain and that
:15:05. > :15:07.was it. It is a reincarnation of Little Richard and Jimi Hendrix in
:15:08. > :15:11.one and I thought it was what the world needed. Controversial, but I
:15:12. > :15:18.love him dearly and I think he is a genius.
:15:19. > :15:28.Is that Britain's?! Reckon executives might not agree but
:15:29. > :15:34.Prince was a total pro. Loose Women was never like this. Giving away
:15:35. > :15:41.free tickets on a chat show. I love you, Prince! I love you back. You
:15:42. > :15:46.are going to be at Madison Square Garden? We're doing a wonderful
:15:47. > :15:49.series of concerts with an array of special guests and a bands that
:15:50. > :16:04.played like a jackhammer. You have to come and check it out. And what
:16:05. > :16:07.about this for a work ethic? # Oh, no, let's go. The only time it is of
:16:08. > :16:16.a half-time in the Super Bowl and the smallest guy on the field is the
:16:17. > :16:25.most valuable player. -- it has ever arraigned at
:16:26. > :16:33.half-time in the Super Bowl. # You don't have to be beautiful...
:16:34. > :16:35.To the premature end, he was always writing, playing impromptu
:16:36. > :16:48.performances and a long run of dates in London.
:16:49. > :16:56.# 2000, party over, out of time. For better or worse, the star who had
:16:57. > :17:01.its oil -- had it all, even point his own epitaph, the artist formerly
:17:02. > :17:03.known as Prince. Steve Smith, remembering Prince. And joining us
:17:04. > :17:08.now: and Oscar-winning director Steve
:17:09. > :17:18.McQueen. Mica, you shared a manager with
:17:19. > :17:22.Prince. Tell us the story of how you first met him. It is very strange. I
:17:23. > :17:27.was a huge fan and I was given a golden ticket for a private show at
:17:28. > :17:32.the Camden Palace. Everybody was there. I was 18, standing in the
:17:33. > :17:35.audience, looking at my hero and thinking, I cannot believe I am
:17:36. > :17:43.actually watching him. And he called out and said, I think your name is
:17:44. > :17:51.Mica, Singh. I was just blown away. He gave me the mike and I just
:17:52. > :17:55.started singing ust My Imagination by the Temptations. I have lived it,
:17:56. > :18:04.because I was terrified. He was very instinctive. And then he called me
:18:05. > :18:10.up and asked me to come to Minneapolis, to Paisley Park, and he
:18:11. > :18:15.wrote a song for my next album. So you literally sang from the
:18:16. > :18:20.audience? How old were you? 18. And the next thing you knew, he was
:18:21. > :18:24.writing songs with you and for you? For the second album, yes. It was
:18:25. > :18:30.amazing. It was shocking for me at the time, obviously. But it was
:18:31. > :18:35.surreal. Because he was like that. If you liked you, he would find a
:18:36. > :18:40.way to contact you and work with you. Because that is what he is
:18:41. > :18:48.like. He knows what he likes. Steve McQueen, what was it for you, the
:18:49. > :18:53.pool of Prince? What was it that drew you in? It was the freedom.
:18:54. > :18:58.There was a black artist totally and utterly free. And inclusive. He
:18:59. > :19:05.wrote, produced, arranged, played all the instruments. And he was sexy
:19:06. > :19:13.and religious and free in every single aspect of his life. And he
:19:14. > :19:17.portrayed what he did in such style, and with such funk, you had to go
:19:18. > :19:22.along with Prince. Prince was Prince, there is only one Prince.
:19:23. > :19:31.You wanted to make a film with him, or about him. What did you want to
:19:32. > :19:36.say? The camera would have been shaking if I was making a movie with
:19:37. > :19:41.Prince. I met him after I won the Oscar and we talked. He was just
:19:42. > :19:44.extraordinary, a very generous person. He took off his shades and
:19:45. > :19:50.met my mother and I thanked him for what he had done for black artists,
:19:51. > :19:54.and black people, because he was just a megastar. He was the best,
:19:55. > :20:02.there was no one who could touch a guitar, dancing, writing, singing.
:20:03. > :20:07.Who has all of those talents, all of those gifts? Helped me to unpick
:20:08. > :20:12.that. I would come back to you, Mica, with the same question in a
:20:13. > :20:16.minute, but when you say, Steve, all he did for black artists, what did
:20:17. > :20:24.he do for black artists? What did he give them? I would not say black
:20:25. > :20:32.artists, I would say young black people, for them it was the first
:20:33. > :20:37.time the shackles of an industry... I mean, he was free. To put out an
:20:38. > :20:45.album every year, to tour when he wanted, to do and aftershow, this is
:20:46. > :20:50.a real artist, with no boundaries. And I think that... I mean, he is so
:20:51. > :20:53.influential. Look at all the albums that came out in the 80s and all the
:20:54. > :21:00.people who copied Tim, from George Michael and so on. The 80s and
:21:01. > :21:07.beyond. Everyone copied Prince. Because he was the way. Mica, did he
:21:08. > :21:12.feel like that, did he see himself in that way or did he see himself as
:21:13. > :21:20.a man constantly struggling to change or Dumora? I never got that
:21:21. > :21:24.from him. -- change or do more. What I got was he was music. He lived it,
:21:25. > :21:30.breathe that, every aspect of him was music. I mean, I would be in the
:21:31. > :21:35.studio with him and it would be like until six or 7:00am, he was still
:21:36. > :21:40.going, like it was the daytime. He was a workaholic, it was all about
:21:41. > :21:44.music. And he worked incredibly fast. Some of the songs, they are
:21:45. > :21:50.alleged to have been written in ten minutes. Yes. And loads of them as
:21:51. > :21:58.well. I remember him telling me that he has bolts of songs that go on and
:21:59. > :22:04.on. -- vaults. Constantly working time. Amazing. Steve, do you think
:22:05. > :22:10.there is untapped music that we are only just coming to? Is there a lot
:22:11. > :22:17.of stuff that did not see the light? I don't know about that. All I want
:22:18. > :22:20.to say is that what he did, in his unfortunately short lifetime, it is
:22:21. > :22:27.just incredible. There is enough music that he has produced for three
:22:28. > :22:32.or four lifetimes. He has done so much musically. It is just
:22:33. > :22:37.incredible. He moved into movies, of course. What do you think his
:22:38. > :22:45.influence was there? It is not everyone who can make that
:22:46. > :22:51.crossover. Well, I think Spike Lee said it best, at that time, when he
:22:52. > :22:56.did Purple Rain, that was hugely influential, as a black artist,
:22:57. > :23:02.having a movie about himself, which he produced, and he was financially
:23:03. > :23:09.involved in and it was a hit, it was unprecedented. What was it, 1984,
:23:10. > :23:16.85? I think it was 1984. Amazing. And he directed the second one,
:23:17. > :23:24.Under The Cherry Moon. I mean, he was a pioneer. It is as simple as
:23:25. > :23:28.that. And he was such a contradiction of figures. He was
:23:29. > :23:34.someone who felt deeply religious but deeply sexual onstage as well
:23:35. > :23:38.and outwardly sexual. Yes, when I got into Prince, before I met him,
:23:39. > :23:44.what happened was I had his album and he had suspenders on. And I come
:23:45. > :23:47.from the church, so I used to have to hide the album in the house from
:23:48. > :23:52.my grandparents, who were ministers, because everyone was saying, you
:23:53. > :23:55.cannot have that, that is wrong. And it did not matter that he had
:23:56. > :24:03.suspenders on because when you heard that funky beat, I mean, it was just
:24:04. > :24:08.shocking. The way he fused all of those styles as well, you have to
:24:09. > :24:13.remember the fused funk, soul, jazz, classical, and then he mixed it with
:24:14. > :24:18.technology, the way he was so ahead with technology as well, he was
:24:19. > :24:27.definitely an enigma. The news today has come... I was quite sad,
:24:28. > :24:29.actually, before I came on the programme but hearing Mica talk
:24:30. > :24:37.about Prince and human memories, there is so much joy, there is so
:24:38. > :24:42.much to what he did, the artistry, it is pretty incredible when you
:24:43. > :24:47.think back. What's Mica was saying, it gives me lots of warmth in my
:24:48. > :24:53.chest. I was feeling sad before I came on and now I think, he knocked
:24:54. > :24:57.the ball way out of the park. Was there a moment where you remember
:24:58. > :25:01.thinking, this man is changing my life, this man is going to have a
:25:02. > :25:09.profound effect on who I am from now on? I mean, this guy came out with
:25:10. > :25:18.an album every year. It was just incredible. I remember my friend
:25:19. > :25:23.Mark gave me, what was it, excuse me, what was the album? I am losing
:25:24. > :25:28.my train of thought. I was listening to this album and every track was
:25:29. > :25:38.revolutionary. If I was your girlfriend, hello?! Speeding up the
:25:39. > :25:46.vocals. Whole idea of him being male, female, inclusive, black,
:25:47. > :25:59.white, number one, Prince. No one could touch him. I think the best
:26:00. > :26:07.one was Sign o' the Times, because it was sparse, and the message was
:26:08. > :26:13.so powerful. That was the one! For me, that was the pinnacle. We have
:26:14. > :26:17.only just begun the reliving. Before we go, Sign o' the Times, you were
:26:18. > :26:21.one of the few who spotted some of the warning signs over the last
:26:22. > :26:30.year, but maybe all was not well with his health. I saw him last year
:26:31. > :26:33.and I thought he was a bit thin, that was the only thing I thought.
:26:34. > :26:37.He was the slimmest I have seen him in all the years I have known him
:26:38. > :26:41.and it was something I thought he looked a bit thin but I think he
:26:42. > :26:47.worked so hard. This is a guy who was constantly touring, constantly
:26:48. > :26:50.working and hardly slept. He loved his job. Great to have you both. I
:26:51. > :26:53.appreciate you joining us tonight. As beacons blaze across the country
:26:54. > :26:56.this evening to mark the Queen's 90th birthday,
:26:57. > :26:59.she enjoys what feels like unclouded popularity,
:27:00. > :27:01.garnering respect even from those who don't see themselves as dyed
:27:02. > :27:07.in the wool monarchists. So has she properly seen off
:27:08. > :27:10.the Republican movement in On double time tonight,
:27:11. > :27:19.here's Stephen Smith again. You could be forgiven for thinking
:27:20. > :27:22.that Republicans hadn't taken such a pasting since their battles
:27:23. > :27:25.with the Royalists Today, though, the sovereign
:27:26. > :27:35.reigns unchallenged, enjoying a popularity to make other
:27:36. > :27:52.establishment figures Will you be stocking this with
:27:53. > :28:02.newts? The newts are in there already. I had two badgers
:28:03. > :28:04.frogspawn. -- two batches of frogspawn.
:28:05. > :28:05.Labour's Ken Livingstone pours his energy into
:28:06. > :28:10.But didn't he once hoped to live a bit like the French
:28:11. > :28:16.Do you still describe yourself as a Republican?
:28:17. > :28:19.Yes, theoretically, but I don't think it will be an issue
:28:20. > :28:27.I don't think it will arise because if you say we're
:28:28. > :28:30.going to get rid of the monarchy, then who are you going to have?
:28:31. > :28:33.I don't think we want to move to a presidential system
:28:34. > :28:35.like America, we want to keep a prime ministerial one.
:28:36. > :28:38.So you would need a head of state, largely ceremonial,
:28:39. > :28:41.and people don't want some clapped-out old politician.
:28:42. > :28:45.What you might get is celebrities running for it,
:28:46. > :28:53.I was really struck because when Mrs Thatcher
:28:54. > :28:55.was abolishing the TLC, the Queen agreed to come and open
:28:56. > :29:05.And then when Tony Blair had expelled me from the Labour Party,
:29:06. > :29:08.she agreed to come to open City Hall on the very day he was
:29:09. > :29:17.I think the Queen is just above politics, and politicians come
:29:18. > :29:20.and go, and she is there to serve the people.
:29:21. > :29:33.Has the bell tolled for a British Republic?
:29:34. > :29:36.But what about after the Queen's reign?
:29:37. > :29:39.A recent hit play, King Charles III, imagines rocky times
:29:40. > :29:50.And some Republicans see it that way, too.
:29:51. > :29:54.Republicanism used to be the R-word that could not be mentioned,
:29:55. > :30:01.it could not be talked about, right up until 15 years ago.
:30:02. > :30:04.Now it's quite acceptable to talk about it, think about it,
:30:05. > :30:09.And I think that is what has happened, but of course the Queen,
:30:10. > :30:13.because of her world celebrity status, really,
:30:14. > :30:19.she is a celebrity rather than anything else,
:30:20. > :30:21.while she's there, the political class in this country, in my view,
:30:22. > :30:37.In a room over a pub in Birmingham, members of the pressure group
:30:38. > :30:39.Republic look forward to what they hope will be
:30:40. > :30:53.They claim to have 5000 members and many more sympathisers.
:30:54. > :30:58.Graeme Smith is Republic's full-time salaried CEO.
:30:59. > :31:02.If it is not her, if it is not the Royals, then we get
:31:03. > :31:07.President Blair or President Stephen Fry.
:31:08. > :31:09.You never would, the point is, well, you would get someone
:31:10. > :31:14.who is quite serious and ultimately has been chosen by the people,
:31:15. > :31:18.so it is going to be someone that is going to have that kind
:31:19. > :31:30.Sorry to interrupt you, but it seems we are about to name
:31:31. > :31:33.a research vessel Boaty McBoatface, so are you sure you have
:31:34. > :31:35.that much confidence in your fellow citizens?
:31:36. > :31:39.The point is, we are about to elect a new Mayor of London and we have
:31:40. > :31:41.elected governments of different stripes across the country
:31:42. > :31:43.in Scotland, England and Wales and so on.
:31:44. > :31:45.If you look at the Republic of Ireland, they directly
:31:46. > :31:49.elect their head of state, who has a very similar
:31:50. > :31:53.They are accountable and certainly in the last decade and a half
:31:54. > :31:55.they have enjoyed levels of popularity equal to that
:31:56. > :32:04.The Queen has been quite clever in not being ostentatiously wealthy.
:32:05. > :32:07.The next couple of generations are much more open about going
:32:08. > :32:11.on holiday all the time and all that kind of thing.
:32:12. > :32:15.And I think what is going to happen is it is going to be evident how out
:32:16. > :32:23.We are not all in this together if you happen to be a Windsor.
:32:24. > :32:26.If that has doused the Royal braziers a little, Tracey Emin,
:32:27. > :32:28.who met the Queen at the Turner Contemporary Gallery
:32:29. > :32:32.in Margate, says she is a convert to monarchism.
:32:33. > :32:35.When I was younger, I did not feel for the Royal family
:32:36. > :32:43.And then, when I was about 20, in my 20s, I saw a royal procession
:32:44. > :32:46.coming from Victoria Station and I had to get off
:32:47. > :32:49.the bus and stand and wait, and then when the Queen went past
:32:50. > :32:53.in her golden coach, my hand went up and I just
:32:54. > :32:57.started waving and cheering like everybody else.
:32:58. > :33:05.I am going to do the right thing, I thought, I am going to make
:33:06. > :33:21.Her Majesty a very nice birthday card and send it.
:33:22. > :33:27.Yesterday, this woman was elected as the first black female president of
:33:28. > :33:34.the NUS. Her election has sparked controversy as she has been accused
:33:35. > :33:37.of anti-Semitic remarks, including -- including Colin Bernd Neumann
:33:38. > :33:43.university as I missed out let. She says her comments have been
:33:44. > :33:47.mis-represented, she isn't racist, and she emphasises the difference
:33:48. > :33:50.between being anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic. She has been accused
:33:51. > :33:55.of not supporting a motion condemning the so-called Islamic
:33:56. > :34:00.State, but the NUS says this is because she disputed the wording of
:34:01. > :34:02.the motion, not the principle. But students from at least seven
:34:03. > :34:09.universities of voting to disassociate from the NUS. Harry
:34:10. > :34:14.Samuels, an Oxford NUS delegate who wants to disassociate, joined us.
:34:15. > :34:19.You are campaigning to disassociate your university, Oxford, from the
:34:20. > :34:24.NUS. Yes, we disagree with the direction of the NUS. My delegation
:34:25. > :34:29.was elected on a reformist slate and we went to the conference over the
:34:30. > :34:32.last few days to see what it was like, to try and put forward some
:34:33. > :34:38.reformist emotions and to see if there was any way to change the NUS
:34:39. > :34:44.for the better. This is about the NUS or her in particular? Not hurt
:34:45. > :34:49.in particular. Her election enshrined the fact that the NUS no
:34:50. > :34:53.longer represent all students and there are other grievances we have
:34:54. > :34:56.lived with the rest of the organisation, and it is the mixture
:34:57. > :35:03.of those reasons and the culmination that we saw in this conference is
:35:04. > :35:08.why we are campaigning to leave. Looking in, she won it, she got the
:35:09. > :35:13.mandate, more than 50% of the vote, and that is how democracy works. Are
:35:14. > :35:18.you saying, we just don't want that any more, we don't buy into it, or
:35:19. > :35:25.are you saying the NUS doesn't account for at least seven of these
:35:26. > :35:27.universities? I would dispute that she was elected democratically. The
:35:28. > :35:34.only people allowed to vote for the NUS president of the senior
:35:35. > :35:40.delegates. She was elected with I think 372 votes, so 372 people out
:35:41. > :35:46.of 7 million students represented by the NUS voted for her. That isn't a
:35:47. > :35:52.mandate. It is still the process by which the NUS elects its presidents,
:35:53. > :35:56.and she won it. She did, and we are saying that we disagree with that
:35:57. > :36:00.process and we want the elections for the people who represent the
:36:01. > :36:05.entire student body to be opened up to all students. There was a motion
:36:06. > :36:10.on that today which was one member, one vote, and that was defeated. You
:36:11. > :36:14.want to pull yourself away from the NUS for good. What happens when they
:36:15. > :36:21.get their next president and it is somebody that you agree with? Do you
:36:22. > :36:26.opt back in? No, we need to make this clear. We are not seeking to
:36:27. > :36:29.disaffiliate simply because we disagree with this particular
:36:30. > :36:34.president. For the last few years, we have seen an increasing level of
:36:35. > :36:37.things we disagree with, increasing evidence that the organisation can
:36:38. > :36:42.no longer be reformed, and it is the election of this president that is
:36:43. > :36:48.the straw that broke the camel's back. Why do you think there is this
:36:49. > :36:54.shift? A variety of reasons. A lot has to do with the fact that the NUS
:36:55. > :37:00.fails to engage with the student it seeks to represent. In my election,
:37:01. > :37:04.as I was elected as a delegate, only 14% of people eligible to vote in
:37:05. > :37:10.Oxford turned out to vote for me. It is similar across the country. The
:37:11. > :37:15.NUS fails to engage with people, it fails to go beyond the cliques that
:37:16. > :37:18.remit, and we think it should be a broad organisation, an organisation
:37:19. > :37:21.representing all students. We have tried to reform it but they are
:37:22. > :37:26.simply not able to be reformed any more. The NUS knows it has got a
:37:27. > :37:32.right of reply and we are happy to speak to them about this and other
:37:33. > :37:37.issues. Thank you for coming on. Let me take you through the papers. That
:37:38. > :37:42.story is the top of the Times, Oxford threatens to dump student
:37:43. > :37:48.union in anti-Semitism row. The topline alongside that picture of
:37:49. > :37:54.Prince is from Obama, an opinion piece he has written for the Times.
:37:55. > :37:59.The topline is, don't turn away from the EU, Obama tells Britain, anger
:38:00. > :38:04.over President's intervention no doubt will come. The Independent as
:38:05. > :38:12.this silhouette, the black and white Prince with the dates, no words. The
:38:13. > :38:16.Sun has, the Purple Rain is over. Prince dies on Queen's birthday.
:38:17. > :38:23.Something that is hard to miss. The Daily Mail has got the Queen herself
:38:24. > :38:25.with a birthday smile saying, she is loving every -- she is loving every
:38:26. > :38:27.minute. Two years ago we paid our own
:38:28. > :38:30.tribute to the artist formerly known as Prince when he played a gig
:38:31. > :38:33.at Ronnie Scott's nightclub in Soho Newsnight went down to the very long
:38:34. > :39:04.ticket queue to see what a hardcore I'm not doing it. No, it's cool.
:39:05. > :39:10.# I only wanted to be some kind of friend...
:39:11. > :39:17.# Baby, I could never steal you from another
:39:18. > :39:27.# It's such a shame our friendship had to end
:39:28. > :39:36.# Purple rain, purple rain # Purple rain, purple rain I've got
:39:37. > :39:44.a dodgy throat. # Purple rain, purple rain. Purple
:39:45. > :39:53.rain, purple rain. It was a bit less predictable. No.
:39:54. > :39:57.# I only want to see you laughing in the purple rain.
:39:58. > :40:10.Some of us have had lovely print -- spring sunshine and warmth recently
:40:11. > :40:12.but things are set to