:00:20. > :00:23.Will Republican nominee Trump now become the most
:00:24. > :00:31.Tonight as Ted Cruz and John Kasich throw in the towel, we'll ask
:00:32. > :00:33.which way the unpredictable Donald Trump will turn now.
:00:34. > :00:37.Can he unify a divided Republican Party?
:00:38. > :00:42.Also tonight: Gabriel is still in search of the European dream.
:00:43. > :01:02.Here's what Brussels values mean to the Hungarian Prime Minister.
:01:03. > :01:05.The car salesman from Delaware who became a do-it-yourself negotiator
:01:06. > :01:09.with Isis tells us his story. This didn't happen over
:01:10. > :01:11.a two-week period. I worked my way up to that point due
:01:12. > :01:14.to the relationships I have and I was very comfortable
:01:15. > :01:17.in being the middleman, Donald Trump is now at about a 30%
:01:18. > :01:30.chance of being US president, There are no other Republicans
:01:31. > :01:35.in the running, the rivals to Trump Who knows, maybe something strange
:01:36. > :01:38.could turn up and stop him, but work on the assumption
:01:39. > :01:43.he is the Republican candidate. Note, this is yet another shock
:01:44. > :01:45.to the professional pundits and pollsters, who didn't see
:01:46. > :01:48.it coming last year. It is also no less than a crisis
:01:49. > :01:56.for American conservatism, having flirted with the mainstream
:01:57. > :01:58.to the neo-cons then to the Tea Party, it has now
:01:59. > :02:02.led by a man with erratic tastes. He has not been very conservative
:02:03. > :02:04.until recently and has made huge donations
:02:05. > :02:06.to the Democrats over the years, Mr Trump has to unite his party
:02:07. > :02:13.and beat Hilary in November. Here's Katie Razzall
:02:14. > :02:22.with her assessment. They wanted him fired, but instead
:02:23. > :02:28.the Apprentice star is hired. I'm Donald Trump and I'm always
:02:29. > :02:34.on the lookout for talented people. I'm looking for someone
:02:35. > :02:37.who is a natural leader. When it comes to a natural leader
:02:38. > :02:40.for America, The Donald He'll be the first presidential
:02:41. > :02:45.nominee in 60 years with no Trump now claims he'll unify
:02:46. > :02:49.the party, having previously given the impression unity wasn't high
:02:50. > :02:53.on his priority list. I see him starting to sweat,
:02:54. > :02:56.like I have never seen I've never seen anybody that lied
:02:57. > :03:04.as much as Ted Cruz did. He's a war hero because
:03:05. > :03:06.he was captured. He failed miserably
:03:07. > :03:11.and it was an embarrassment to everybody including
:03:12. > :03:14.the Republican Party. It's been clear many Republicans
:03:15. > :03:20.wanted anyone but Trump, and in this most divisive
:03:21. > :03:22.of contests they didn't His promises are as worthless
:03:23. > :03:29.as a degree from Trump University. Donald Trump likes to sue people,
:03:30. > :03:33.he should sue whoever He doesn't know the difference
:03:34. > :03:41.between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that
:03:42. > :03:45.comes out of his mouth. That last comment was only
:03:46. > :03:47.yesterday, as Ted Cruz faced Pretty hard to come back
:03:48. > :03:54.from, you'd imagine. So can the GOP really unite
:03:55. > :03:56.behind their presidential nominee? The full Republican Party is not
:03:57. > :03:59.going to unite behind Donald Trump. You have prominent people who said
:04:00. > :04:02.outright there is no way I'm ever going to support Donald Trump,
:04:03. > :04:04.he's not a Republican, I think closer to the general
:04:05. > :04:09.election Donald Trump will pull in some Republicans who might have
:04:10. > :04:12.strayed away for a while. He's going to try to be more
:04:13. > :04:15.moderate, he's going to lean He's going to try to convince people
:04:16. > :04:19.that a lot of his rhetoric before was just for show and that it wasn't
:04:20. > :04:22.actually policy that he plans to implement, but I think it's
:04:23. > :04:25.going to be hard for him to backtrack, especially
:04:26. > :04:27.on his offensive comments. The latest polling pitting Trump
:04:28. > :04:29.and Clinton head-to-head shows On the individual issues,
:04:30. > :04:34.she beats him comfortably in a host of key areas
:04:35. > :04:37.including foreign policy. Education, he said he wants to cut
:04:38. > :04:42.or eliminate the Education And health care, he wants
:04:43. > :04:47.to repeal Obamacare. Clinton does, however,
:04:48. > :04:49.trail Trump on the economy, the issue voters ranked
:04:50. > :04:55.most important of all. He's tapped into voters'
:04:56. > :04:57.frustrations about the economy with big promises
:04:58. > :04:59.to make the country richer. His rhetoric on Muslims and Mexicans
:05:00. > :05:02.may have appealed to some of the predominantly white
:05:03. > :05:05.Republican primary goers, but analysts suggest he'll need two
:05:06. > :05:09.thirds of white voters to pick him in November, a feat reached
:05:10. > :05:13.only by Ronald Reagan, I think anyone who is predicting
:05:14. > :05:20.that he's going to tone it down does not really know the nature of Donald
:05:21. > :05:23.Trump. He is going to say what he wants
:05:24. > :05:27.to say, when he wants to say it. He's a completely unpredictable,
:05:28. > :05:30.from-the-gut personality. And I think that's how
:05:31. > :05:33.he is as a politician. They've been measuring how unpopular
:05:34. > :05:42.presidential nominees are at this 20% of people said they felt
:05:43. > :05:50.unfavourably towards Ronald Reagan A decade later, only about 12%
:05:51. > :05:54.of people disliked Bill Clinton. Other nominees have hovered
:05:55. > :05:56.between four and just Hillary Clinton is the most
:05:57. > :06:07.unpopular candidate on either side, ever, except, that is,
:06:08. > :06:09.for Donald Trump. But if we've learned anything over
:06:10. > :06:12.these past few months, it's that Donald Trump should never
:06:13. > :06:15.be underestimated, and that in this contest you never quite know
:06:16. > :06:22.what will happen next. Joining me now from America
:06:23. > :06:26.is Jason Meister, chair of the Trump campaign in New York and Max Boot,
:06:27. > :06:30.who worked as a senior to one of Trump's rivals,
:06:31. > :06:41.Marco Rubio. Are you going to vote for Donald
:06:42. > :06:45.Trump? Pretty much the last thing in the world I never going to do is to
:06:46. > :06:52.vote for Donald Trump, no way, know-how, not going to happen. OK!
:06:53. > :06:55.You aren't wavering on that, you are quite certain you aren't going to
:06:56. > :07:01.vote for him. You will vote for Clinton, presumably? I would vote
:07:02. > :07:06.for a Conservative third-party candidate or Hillary Clinton. I
:07:07. > :07:10.regard Donald Trump as an ignorant demagogue who is one of the most
:07:11. > :07:15.dangerous candidates to run for the presidency and least qualified. He's
:07:16. > :07:18.the last person we should put in the Oval Office in charge of the most
:07:19. > :07:22.powerful military in the world. He has shown that he doesn't understand
:07:23. > :07:29.the basics of policy, he is xenophobic, he is guilty of sexist
:07:30. > :07:33.comments, he doesn't have any real policy plans that can be achieved,
:07:34. > :07:36.he wants to blow up our oldest alliances, he would be an
:07:37. > :07:42.unmitigated disaster and there is no way I would consider voting for him.
:07:43. > :07:45.Is there a problem perhaps that it is your friends who are saying this
:07:46. > :07:51.about Donald Trump? How is this going to work? It's going to work
:07:52. > :07:57.and we are going to get the never Trump people to come around, they
:07:58. > :08:04.will do a complete 180. Donald Trump just one beating 17 well-qualified
:08:05. > :08:09.Republican candidates -- just won. I think the challenge is behind us. We
:08:10. > :08:18.have a general election facing a dynastic, a career politician,
:08:19. > :08:23.Hillary Clinton, suffering against a committed socialist from Vermont, a
:08:24. > :08:29.74-year-old committed socialist from Vermont. So the alternative I'm
:08:30. > :08:32.afraid is Hillary Clinton and Conservatives are going to rally
:08:33. > :08:36.around him. I'm sick and tired of hearing whether he will be
:08:37. > :08:43.presidential, he isn't Conservative. He knows how to create jobs, he's a
:08:44. > :08:46.guy who understands that you need to bring the corporate tax rate down,
:08:47. > :08:54.we need get government off our backs. We have come off eight years
:08:55. > :08:58.of President Obama, we have 10% real unemployment, we have the lowest
:08:59. > :09:01.Labour participation rate in 40 years and the economy is the most
:09:02. > :09:07.important issue. The next important issue is to deal with Isis and
:09:08. > :09:13.homeland security. I think we need an outsider, a guy who has guts, who
:09:14. > :09:19.speaks to the American people, not at the American people and that's
:09:20. > :09:23.what Trump does. How big a strand of opinion in the ber publican party
:09:24. > :09:28.and the Republican base, how big a strand you think you represent? --
:09:29. > :09:32.the Republican party. You say you will not be won over, what's your
:09:33. > :09:38.assessment of how many can and cannot be won over? We'll find out,
:09:39. > :09:42.in the latest poll by CNN, which showed Hillary ahead of Trump by
:09:43. > :09:50.double digits also showed that among those with... He was seen as
:09:51. > :09:54.unfavourable by 30% of Conservatives, so there is no
:09:55. > :09:57.question that there are many Republicans who will come around in
:09:58. > :10:00.the end simply because they fear Hillary Clinton but I certainly
:10:01. > :10:06.won't and I think a substantial number of die-hard Republicans won't
:10:07. > :10:11.stop your other guest makes it seem that candidate is a normal -- that
:10:12. > :10:15.Trump is a normal candidate with a plan to revive the economy. Let's
:10:16. > :10:18.not forget that he was to ban all Muslims from the country, he was to
:10:19. > :10:25.send the police into American homes to round up undocumented immigrants,
:10:26. > :10:29.he wants to destroy my two and pull our troops out of South Korea and
:10:30. > :10:33.Japan, he was to make nice with that Amir Putin, who was to start trade
:10:34. > :10:39.wars with China and Mexico, two of our longest trading partners -- with
:10:40. > :10:47.Vladimir Putin. He would make us it is lot less secure. -- he would make
:10:48. > :10:50.us a lot less secure. They are talking point is that we've all
:10:51. > :10:56.heard before, it's the media that's been attacking him. He has been
:10:57. > :11:00.attacked by both establishments, Republican and Democrat. He has led
:11:01. > :11:06.every opinion poll, he has beaten every candidate since he announced
:11:07. > :11:10.his presidency and opponents still don't get it because he is speaking
:11:11. > :11:13.to the American people and the American people are ready for
:11:14. > :11:19.change, sick and tired of career politicians. I know what happens in
:11:20. > :11:22.these things, everyone rallies around the candidate, that's the
:11:23. > :11:27.normal form. They insult each other in the campaign and then they rally
:11:28. > :11:32.around. It feels that the insults have been so vehement over the last
:11:33. > :11:40.weeks, Ted Cruz calling him a pathological liar, completely
:11:41. > :11:44.amoral, narcissist, Ted Cruz cannot now stand up and look at the
:11:45. > :11:54.American people and say that they were just joshing and that people
:11:55. > :12:00.should vote for Donald Trump? I think they can and you are going to
:12:01. > :12:03.see not just Republicans rallying around Donald Trump, you are going
:12:04. > :12:13.to see a tremendous amount of Democrats, people I call Trumpocrats
:12:14. > :12:19.rallying around Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton has significant
:12:20. > :12:23.weaknesses. We need an outsider to shake things up and Hillary Clinton
:12:24. > :12:30.is everything but an outsider, she is a dynastic politician. Her
:12:31. > :12:36.husband was a president. In my mind she is the Jeb Bush of the Democrat
:12:37. > :12:41.party. We beat him pretty handily very early on. Ted Cruz made it as
:12:42. > :12:46.far as he did because he was the most outsider as you get from the
:12:47. > :12:53.establishment. A quick one for you, Max. Do you see this as a crisis for
:12:54. > :12:59.Conservative? There were many Conservative choices on offer and
:13:00. > :13:05.none of them really seems to appeal very substantially? -- conservatism.
:13:06. > :13:09.It is a crisis for the Republican party, it's an open question whether
:13:10. > :13:14.it will survive Donald Trump. We just don't know because he has
:13:15. > :13:21.hijacked the party. He only signed up as a Republican in 2012, he isn't
:13:22. > :13:28.the Medley Conservative, he is a populist demagogue -- he isn't
:13:29. > :13:31.remotely Conservative. 40% of Republican primary voters supported
:13:32. > :13:35.him, 10 million people, but in a general election, 130 million people
:13:36. > :13:40.are going to vote. It's funny that the Trump spokesman says we have to
:13:41. > :13:45.listen to the polls numbers, he has been number one in the primary
:13:46. > :13:50.hulls, but he is behind by double digit amounts in the general
:13:51. > :13:56.election polls. He has high unfavourable numbers. Has he brought
:13:57. > :14:02.millions of new voters into the party? He may have brought in some
:14:03. > :14:03.voters but he is driving others out. We have to leave it there. Thank you
:14:04. > :14:06.for joining us. Now, back to Europe,
:14:07. > :14:08.and for the second film in our series looking at the EU
:14:09. > :14:10.from the perspective If you saw last night,
:14:11. > :14:14.you'll know they had a dream of a united Europe
:14:15. > :14:16.and Gabriel Gatehouse has been touring the continent,
:14:17. > :14:18.assessing how much of that To some extent, those post-war
:14:19. > :14:23.visionaries had hoped that our attachment to the idea
:14:24. > :14:26.of the nation state might fade, and the free movement of people
:14:27. > :14:29.around the continent would help But Europe has changed,
:14:30. > :14:34.the EU is much larger than envisaged, and as Gabriel
:14:35. > :14:37.finds, the nation state has proved Out of the ruins of war
:14:38. > :14:58.there rose a vision. What were the aims of
:14:59. > :15:08.the EU's founding Fathers? Last night we examined
:15:09. > :15:14.ever closer union. Tonight we are looking
:15:15. > :15:18.at freedom of movement. We are asking, what's become
:15:19. > :15:24.of the European dream? Apart from a few road signs there's
:15:25. > :15:28.nothing here to tell you that I've just walked
:15:29. > :15:33.across an international frontier. And not just any old frontier,
:15:34. > :15:38.because it's not so very long ago Stretching all the way from
:15:39. > :15:46.the Baltic to the Mediterranean. A line of barbed wire dividing
:15:47. > :15:48.Europe into binary opposites. And this, right here,
:15:49. > :15:52.is the spot where the fence On Hungary's border with Austria,
:15:53. > :16:12.thousands gathered to protest. Inside the Soviet bloc,
:16:13. > :16:16.the pressure was building. A group of East Germans made
:16:17. > :16:21.a dash for the fence. 27 years ago this man stood
:16:22. > :16:32.between them and the West. Arpad Bella was in command
:16:33. > :16:35.of the Hungarian His orders were to protect this
:16:36. > :17:00.crossing by force if necessary. He now faced the most momentous
:17:01. > :17:02.decision of his life, one that could help change
:17:03. > :17:16.the course of European history. And so they set off
:17:17. > :17:30.a chain of events. Three months later the fall
:17:31. > :17:33.of the Berlin Wall. The biggest expansion
:17:34. > :17:40.of the European project Now they could move freely
:17:41. > :17:44.across the continent. Having played his part in tearing
:17:45. > :17:56.down the Iron Curtain, Arpad now believes that Europe
:17:57. > :18:39.should again be building fences. So what's happened to the dream
:18:40. > :18:44.of a Europe without borders? What happened to de facto
:18:45. > :18:55.solidarity? In the former Communist states,
:18:56. > :18:58.EU accession has meant freedom For Andras Lovas, a doctor
:18:59. > :19:07.in the Hungarian town of Szeged, it has meant the freedom to move
:19:08. > :19:10.and work throughout the union. For me the European Union is a great
:19:11. > :19:15.thing because I am free to move. It was really easy to move
:19:16. > :19:18.to the UK when I went It was free to move,
:19:19. > :19:23.free to cross the border. But across Eastern Europe,
:19:24. > :19:34.millions of people are moving west for work, and unlike Andras,
:19:35. > :19:36.many don't come back. Bad for my country because more
:19:37. > :19:38.and more of my friends More and more of my friends leave
:19:39. > :19:43.the country, not just to the UK, In Szeged a nurse in a care home
:19:44. > :19:47.earns one sixth of what they When it comes to prosperity the EU
:19:48. > :19:54.has failed to bridge the old gulf The young and the capable are often
:19:55. > :20:01.the first to leave. The Hungarian health care
:20:02. > :20:06.system is under strain. We have an estimation that since
:20:07. > :20:11.Hungary joined the European Union, probably or approximately 5000
:20:12. > :20:13.medical doctors already There's a deeper sense
:20:14. > :20:30.of unease with Europe, here. An unease that was thrown
:20:31. > :20:37.into sharp relief last summer. Europe's failure to forge a common
:20:38. > :20:46.response boiled over at the train station in Budapest after Germany
:20:47. > :20:51.had unilaterally declared itself And so began the mass movement
:20:52. > :21:01.of people across an unwillingness When the Iron Curtain crumbled,
:21:02. > :21:06.people thought they'd said But when Brussels talks
:21:07. > :21:14.about mandatory quotas for refugees, many see that as the imposition
:21:15. > :21:20.of a liberal worldview. Hungary was the first
:21:21. > :21:22.to close its borders. Freedom of movement is being trumped
:21:23. > :21:53.by concerns over cultural identity. The Hungarian Prime Minister has
:21:54. > :21:57.taken these ideas from the fringes For him and his supporters,
:21:58. > :22:04.the biggest threat to their European identity is the European Union
:22:05. > :22:32.itself. There is a growing dissident
:22:33. > :22:37.movement in European politics. One which rejects ever closer union
:22:38. > :22:43.in favour of a strong nation state. Viktor Orban calls it
:22:44. > :22:47.illiberal democracy. His spokesman thinks liberalism has
:22:48. > :22:52.become an oppressive ideology. Liberalism originally was giving
:22:53. > :22:56.place and space for open, What we see today, that in the name
:22:57. > :23:03.of liberalism, apart from monopolising a couple
:23:04. > :23:06.of issues and themes, there's also a restriction
:23:07. > :23:08.on what and how shall We believe that in most
:23:09. > :23:17.countries around Europe there is maybe a silent
:23:18. > :23:19.but growing majority that recognise what's going on at the European
:23:20. > :23:22.level is maybe against the very nature of the continent,
:23:23. > :23:27.of the culture we are living in. The freedom to travel,
:23:28. > :23:36.investment in infrastructure, billions of euros from the common
:23:37. > :23:39.European pot, somehow all of this has failed to coalesce
:23:40. > :23:50.into a sense of common purpose. And the divisions over Europe's
:23:51. > :23:53.borders are opening up Fissures that are ripe
:23:54. > :23:58.for exploitation. This is the Paks
:23:59. > :24:00.nuclear power plant. Last year Russia agreed to lend
:24:01. > :24:06.Hungary billions of euros Viktor Orban, an admirer
:24:07. > :24:19.of Vladimir Putin, has simultaneously oppose the EU
:24:20. > :24:21.sanctions against Russia. Including Zoltan Illes,
:24:22. > :24:25.who was a minister in Orban's government when the secretive
:24:26. > :24:27.deal was announced. Russia was definitely buying
:24:28. > :24:28.influence in Hungary, and also from a Russian perspective
:24:29. > :24:33.in the whole of Europe. Spending 13 or 14 billion euros
:24:34. > :24:39.in Hungary developing, building up the nuclear facility,
:24:40. > :24:44.power station, for decades Russia will be involved in energy policies
:24:45. > :24:49.of this country as well as Europe. On foreign policy, on border
:24:50. > :24:51.control, on that de facto solidarity, Europe does not
:24:52. > :24:57.speak with one voice. Last night we met one of the EU's
:24:58. > :25:04.founding fathers, Georges Berthoin. In so many fields he believes Europe
:25:05. > :25:08.has not gone far enough. All governments wanted
:25:09. > :25:11.to remain halfway. They wanted a bit of Europe,
:25:12. > :25:19.not too much. All right, when you remain halfway,
:25:20. > :25:22.you have the worst The fall of the Berlin Wall
:25:23. > :25:31.once looked like the The historical inevitability
:25:32. > :25:36.of ever closer union. What 1989 did was it
:25:37. > :25:44.opened Europe up. It gave the peoples of East and West
:25:45. > :25:48.freedom of movement, one of the cornerstones
:25:49. > :25:55.of the European dream. What the migration crisis has done
:25:56. > :25:57.is it's highlighted another aspect, and that is,
:25:58. > :25:59.if you abolish your national borders you also sacrifice part
:26:00. > :26:02.of your sovereignty. And it turns out that there's
:26:03. > :26:06.huge resistance to that. Not just here in Hungary,
:26:07. > :26:17.but across the continent. And so, more than a quarter-century
:26:18. > :26:22.after they tore down the Iron Curtain, they are putting
:26:23. > :26:27.fences back up again. In Hungary and Poland,
:26:28. > :26:32.in Slovakia and Austria, even in Germany and France,
:26:33. > :26:36.the political momentum is shifting towards those who reject the dream
:26:37. > :26:42.of Europe as common space. There are others for whom that idea
:26:43. > :26:46.still exerts an irresistible draw. It is an irony that they are often
:26:47. > :26:49.the ones on the other This is perhaps the biggest
:26:50. > :27:00.crisis of legitimacy Tomorrow night, the economic
:27:01. > :27:08.and political imbalance at the heart Can democratic sovereignty
:27:09. > :27:18.survive monetary union? Gabriel Gatehouse, and part three
:27:19. > :27:21.of that series will be tomorrow. Free movement in the EU
:27:22. > :27:24.is of course, not automatically extended to migrants,
:27:25. > :27:29.or non-EU citizens. Among the many on the continent are
:27:30. > :27:34.thousands of unaccompanied children. The government has controversially
:27:35. > :27:37.resisted taking a share of those children to settle,
:27:38. > :27:40.but it did make a u-turn on that today, saying it would take
:27:41. > :27:42.an unspecified number. Nick Watt, our political editor
:27:43. > :27:51.is with me. What made them do that? They did a
:27:52. > :27:56.raw assessment of the numbers and the numbers were not good. When you
:27:57. > :28:02.put together labour opposition, Liberal Democrat opposition, SNP
:28:03. > :28:06.opposition, at most significantly a significant body of Conservative
:28:07. > :28:10.MPs, Prime Minister looked at the numbers and said, we better beat a
:28:11. > :28:14.hasty retreat. Otherwise there would have been parliamentary ping-pong
:28:15. > :28:17.with the bill going between the two chambers of parliament. And it was
:28:18. > :28:23.under the cover of the anti-Semitism row. Did they themselves think,
:28:24. > :28:28.we've just lost the argument on this? We lost the case and we should
:28:29. > :28:31.withdraw with dignity? The Prime Minister is not going to want to
:28:32. > :28:36.make that he lost an argument but there is one area he has abandoned
:28:37. > :28:41.the defining feature of his response to this crisis which was that the UK
:28:42. > :28:44.would not take refugees from continental Europe, but only from
:28:45. > :28:48.camps in the region, because he would not want to encourage people
:28:49. > :28:53.to cross the Mediterranean. One area where they say they are wrong firm
:28:54. > :28:56.ground, they say they wanted to avoid the mistake Angela Merkel
:28:57. > :29:01.made, to say that the borders for Germany were open. They have come up
:29:02. > :29:04.with a cut-off which they say should avoid the problems.
:29:05. > :29:08.Well, joining me now to discuss this is the MEP Stephen Woolfe,
:29:09. > :29:11.Ukip's frontbench spokesperson on migration, and Heidi Allen,
:29:12. > :29:13.Conservative MP for South Cambridgeshire who had said
:29:14. > :29:16.she was prepared to vote against the government before
:29:17. > :29:21.David Cameron's policy u-turn earlier today.
:29:22. > :29:30.You have been welcoming all over the place today, the policy. Do you know
:29:31. > :29:36.what the policy is, how many are we talking about? It is being firmed up
:29:37. > :29:38.as we speak. The clear message from the Immigration Minister James
:29:39. > :29:43.Brokenshire I is that as soon as we are out of the local election
:29:44. > :29:47.tomorrow he is going to write to the local authorities asking what they
:29:48. > :29:52.can take. Last year, we resettled about 3000 children in this country.
:29:53. > :29:56.He will be talking in those terms, that's what we did last year, look
:29:57. > :30:01.for those numbers this year. Last year they were taken from camps
:30:02. > :30:05.around Syria. Some of them. The question is, if we take some from
:30:06. > :30:11.continental Europe, are we going to take viewer from the camps? The same
:30:12. > :30:16.number in total, but just switching? No, this is just in addition. Are
:30:17. > :30:21.you sure, more than last year? If you look at the legislation, the
:30:22. > :30:25.amendment we are accepting, we talk about the original 20,000 scheme,
:30:26. > :30:30.the 3000 announced a fortnight ago and this is in addition. How many
:30:31. > :30:34.are you expecting to be Syrian, and how many from other parts of the
:30:35. > :30:37.world? To be honest I don't think the analysis has been done, nor is
:30:38. > :30:43.it likely because the government policy is to work with the experts
:30:44. > :30:46.on the ground, Save the Children, UNHCR, and take guidance from them.
:30:47. > :30:53.Children at risk who are the most honourable. You aren't -- the most
:30:54. > :30:57.vulnerable. You would rather the government stuck to the original
:30:58. > :31:01.line? Yes, we need to ensure that the people traffickers who are
:31:02. > :31:06.making billions out of this, and everyone knows that they are, we
:31:07. > :31:10.must ensure that they are not using the children as a weapon in some
:31:11. > :31:14.ways. If you have the children in the camps, where they are well
:31:15. > :31:18.looked after by the same government agencies that Heidi has talked
:31:19. > :31:21.about, you can safely assure that they are looked after, we can make
:31:22. > :31:27.sure that the asylum process are looked after there. It is difficult
:31:28. > :31:31.to make sure when they come into the UK. Yes, there will be 3000 children
:31:32. > :31:36.coming over who are suffering in the camps at the moment, but there are
:31:37. > :31:41.100,000 children in the United Kingdom tonight who will be living
:31:42. > :31:43.in homeless accommodation, bed-and-breakfast, hotels and they
:31:44. > :31:50.will feel that they are being put to the back of the queue. Can I ask you
:31:51. > :31:55.what you would expect to happen to those children who are already in
:31:56. > :31:58.Europe, who are if you like and accompanied, lonely here, what would
:31:59. > :32:03.you expect to happen to them? Would you expect them all to be taken by
:32:04. > :32:08.France? You say they will go through the procedure but I'm not sure what
:32:09. > :32:11.happens at the end. We are not sure, maybe Heidi can tell us what's going
:32:12. > :32:16.to happen to the 3000 children currently in the camps and are
:32:17. > :32:18.expected to come to the UK. Clearly there is a responsibility to France
:32:19. > :32:24.and Italy and the other countries where these children are to abide by
:32:25. > :32:29.the same rules that we are abiding by, the UN rules on children and
:32:30. > :32:32.human rights, it is to make sure they put their hands in their
:32:33. > :32:36.pockets and look after them too. There seems to be a shifting of the
:32:37. > :32:40.policy from them that they want to put them in camps and ignore them,
:32:41. > :32:43.why are they being ignored when they have facilities to look after them
:32:44. > :32:48.in France, Italy and the other countries in Europe? This is a point
:32:49. > :32:53.the Prime Minister made. People made the point that it was like the
:32:54. > :33:02.candour transport, helping Jewish children before the Second World War
:33:03. > :33:06.-- the Kinder transport. But it isn't quite like that. Yes, you
:33:07. > :33:13.think it is all Europe, it must be safe. I have visited Calais and
:33:14. > :33:18.Lesbos, as many MPs have, and there is anything but safety there.
:33:19. > :33:22.Economically they are on their knees, places like Greece, not in a
:33:23. > :33:26.state to do this and thousands of people coming every day. It's chaos,
:33:27. > :33:30.they can't cope and there is some pretty nasty stuff happening to
:33:31. > :33:35.children who aren't safeguarded, no one is protecting them which is why
:33:36. > :33:38.I feel we have a responsibility, as every European country has, to work
:33:39. > :33:43.through this and identify the children that each of us can take.
:33:44. > :33:46.Wouldn't it be selfish for the British to say that we have a
:33:47. > :33:50.collective problem, people have arrived here, we should all do our
:33:51. > :33:55.bit rather than just say, France, you have to deal with them all, or
:33:56. > :33:59.Italy and Greece, it's your problem because they landed on your shores?
:34:00. > :34:05.We've never said that we shouldn't be taking any children at all, we
:34:06. > :34:08.have said that the 20,000 figure that the Prime Minister had put out
:34:09. > :34:13.should be the figure that is kept in place. Those children should be
:34:14. > :34:17.taken from the camps because it sends a strong message. It isn't
:34:18. > :34:22.about selfishness either. What we are looking at, even in the
:34:23. > :34:25.constituency that Heidi has, there will be 9000 children in East
:34:26. > :34:32.Cambridgeshire who are without a home tonight. We are short of over
:34:33. > :34:39.8000 foster carers, 8000 children in the foster system, without homes.
:34:40. > :34:43.What we are saying, we are going to take 3000, it is going to cost us
:34:44. > :34:48.100 million a year, but we will have problems housing our own. What I
:34:49. > :34:52.would like to say to Heidi is, yes, bring in children but are you going
:34:53. > :34:56.to have amendments to government policy that says we will double the
:34:57. > :34:59.amount of money for councils to look after the existing children who are
:35:00. > :35:03.homeless tonight? Are you going to put the half a billion that would
:35:04. > :35:12.match that? But we put that, you have ten seconds, sorry. The great
:35:13. > :35:15.British public, offering help, rallying as communities, maybe we
:35:16. > :35:16.can learn something and bring our own children into the foster network
:35:17. > :35:19.too. Thank you for joining us. Now each week on Newsnight
:35:20. > :35:21.during this referendum campaign we've been trying to help
:35:22. > :35:24.you make your decision on how to vote, by offering a little space
:35:25. > :35:28.to some people who are not involved in the campaigns, to tell us
:35:29. > :35:30.about their decision. Tonight, the Scottish billionaire
:35:31. > :35:32.Tom Hunter gives us his On the one hand I'm
:35:33. > :35:48.worried about sovereignty You know, pretty proud of what we're
:35:49. > :36:01.doing here in Britain. And I wouldn't want to give too much
:36:02. > :36:04.power away to some faceless In terms of my other worry,
:36:05. > :36:09.if we left, I think I would be I'd be worried about London's
:36:10. > :36:20.position as being financial I still think there's a long way
:36:21. > :36:29.to go in this debate. I find it really confusing
:36:30. > :36:32.when people of the same political party are ripping each other
:36:33. > :36:35.to shreds with this argument. And it's hard to get to say
:36:36. > :36:43.where are the facts? I think at this point in the debate
:36:44. > :36:46.it's too close to call. I think always in these
:36:47. > :36:51.debates it's quite boring And I think the Leave campaign have
:36:52. > :37:00.got probably more charismatic speakers like Michael Gove and Boris
:37:01. > :37:02.Johnson. They are quite entertaining
:37:03. > :37:04.but frankly, if I want to be Can you imagine, in a quiet evening,
:37:05. > :37:16.sitting at the computer, browsing social media and getting
:37:17. > :37:19.involved in conversations Well from the US, comes
:37:20. > :37:25.an intriguing story of a car salesman from Delaware,
:37:26. > :37:30.Toby Lopez, who did that. But it got to a very serious point,
:37:31. > :37:33.after meeting people he believed were Isis officials online,
:37:34. > :37:37.he ended up trying to negotiate the release of US
:37:38. > :37:39.hostage Kayla Mueller. In doing so he angered the FBI
:37:40. > :37:42.and was arrested and locked up He's now been told he won't have
:37:43. > :37:46.to stand trial, that all charges against him have been dropped,
:37:47. > :37:49.and he's free to tell his story. I began by asking him how he got
:37:50. > :38:03.involved in negotiating What got me involved in that was a
:38:04. > :38:06.relationship that was developed over months, culminating in mean
:38:07. > :38:14.negotiating for a United States hostage. To all of the people
:38:15. > :38:19.criticising me, yeah, I agree, it's not what most people do. Because of
:38:20. > :38:26.my relationships, the tyres I had within that organisation, they
:38:27. > :38:30.wanted to use me to facilitate her release -- ties. In your opinion,
:38:31. > :38:36.what happened to make them suddenly come out in some number and arrest
:38:37. > :38:42.you, take you away, and effectively lock you up for 14 months? That's
:38:43. > :38:45.what happens when you know as much as the United States government and
:38:46. > :38:50.you have e-mails indicating them in the Kayla Mueller hostage
:38:51. > :38:56.negotiation with me. I told the head of the FBI, the supervising agent I
:38:57. > :39:00.was talking to, I told him that these gentlemen know who I am and
:39:01. > :39:06.I've been dealing with them for six months now. You know who I am and
:39:07. > :39:10.who I'm talking to. They said that they didn't want any B I funny
:39:11. > :39:14.business and they said all I'm going to do by telling me to stand down
:39:15. > :39:20.and negotiate with the same people, you are going to be exposed and you
:39:21. > :39:23.will get her killed in the process -- any FBI funny business. It isn't
:39:24. > :39:32.because of what I did, it's because of what I knew. Do you ever think
:39:33. > :39:39.you got in way too deep for a car salesman from Delaware? I think I
:39:40. > :39:43.was in way over my head and the beginning, but at the end, I knew
:39:44. > :39:49.exactly what I was dealing with and I knew what I was doing. Like I
:39:50. > :39:56.said, I had been involved with the FBI followed across -- for other
:39:57. > :40:02.four 's. They are incarcerated joo and it was unpleasant because it was
:40:03. > :40:08.partially jail and partially medically supervised -- for four 's.
:40:09. > :40:14.-- they incarcerated you. What was in Caceres and like? I was put in
:40:15. > :40:20.isolation -- what was incarceration like. I was in there for nearly six
:40:21. > :40:25.months straight at the beginning and they moved me multiple times to
:40:26. > :40:31.facilities, from Philadelphia to New York, to Oklahoma City. They moved
:40:32. > :40:39.me so many times, and they cut my communications down to nothing and
:40:40. > :40:43.there was no justification from them as to why I was put in isolation,
:40:44. > :40:52.thrown in the hole for as long as I was stopped they tried to say that I
:40:53. > :40:56.was delusional and making it up. That's the way for the United States
:40:57. > :41:00.to discredit people. If I had told myself my own story without any
:41:01. > :41:05.factual evidence to back it up I would say that I was delusional. The
:41:06. > :41:09.United States government had this information but they didn't release
:41:10. > :41:13.it to the government doctors because they wanted the finding that I was
:41:14. > :41:21.delusional, to discredit me. They wanted the fact that, found
:41:22. > :41:24.incompetent to stand trial, the government could hold me
:41:25. > :41:30.indefinitely. We live in the United States, not Russia. Looking back at
:41:31. > :41:34.what you were doing, do you think you are at least obsessed, that you
:41:35. > :41:44.went too far? Can you see it from their point of view? Yeah, maybe. I
:41:45. > :41:49.had a passion. Just like Kayla Mueller was passionate about going
:41:50. > :41:55.over there and helping children in that region, she had a passion to do
:41:56. > :41:59.that. Is she insane? No. Thank you for joining us.
:42:00. > :42:07.Election day across the country tomorrow, Kirsty will be here
:42:08. > :42:18.tomorrow evening. Until then, good night.
:42:19. > :42:25.Slowly and surely, the nights are getting a bit less cold. A lovely
:42:26. > :42:26.sunny start,