:00:12. > :00:16.It is absolutely great to be here. We hung on and we got support in a
:00:17. > :00:21.We hung on and we got support in a lot of places.
:00:22. > :00:24.The parties each have their triumphs.
:00:25. > :00:26.But they also have their tribulations.
:00:27. > :00:28.We'll try to make sense of the complicated map
:00:29. > :00:32.These results suggest that we are now in an era where no
:00:33. > :00:36.Labour and Conservative, the two big national parties,
:00:37. > :00:41.And what does the defeat of Zac Goldsmith imply
:00:42. > :00:47.It is amazing that, of all people, it is Zac Goldsmith who ends up,
:00:48. > :00:50.if you like, bringing back the Nasty Party label to the
:00:51. > :00:56.In Scotland The SNP won an historic third term
:00:57. > :00:59.in the Scottish parliament, but not a majority, in an election
:01:00. > :01:09.We will govern with conviction, with ambition and with determination,
:01:10. > :01:11.but also with humility and a willingness to
:01:12. > :01:15.But the big story was the Conservative comeback,
:01:16. > :01:25.No, I don't have any particular party allegiance but this time
:01:26. > :01:29.I'll be discussing why voters trust the Tories more than
:01:30. > :01:36.And Artsnight returns with David Baddiel asking
:01:37. > :01:39.if the Great Man theory of history has any relevance today.
:01:40. > :01:44.There is no longer a pool of adoration waiting to seize on this
:01:45. > :01:49.There are many more writers than there used to be.
:01:50. > :02:06.Results day and more evidence of the new kaleidoscope politics
:02:07. > :02:09.that has replaced the old two-party system in Britain.
:02:10. > :02:12.It's not just that we have different winners in different
:02:13. > :02:14.parts of the country, we have different contests as well.
:02:15. > :02:19.While the SNP got Scotland, Labour got Wales and London,
:02:20. > :02:22.and the Tories did OK'ish in the rest of England,
:02:23. > :02:29.Plaid Cymru making progress, Ukip getting over 10%
:02:30. > :02:31.of the British vote, and even the Lib Dems
:02:32. > :02:34.stubbornly refusing to die, in fact getting 15% of the projected
:02:35. > :02:39.The main preoccupation today has been to ask,
:02:40. > :02:43.as we always do, what does it mean for the next general election?
:02:44. > :02:48.Can Labour win in 2020 or is it obvious the Conservatives will?
:02:49. > :02:51.But right now it's not even clear what Labour and Conservative
:02:52. > :02:57.Is Ruth Davidson's pro-EU Conservatism in Scotland
:02:58. > :03:00.the same as Boris Johnson's brexit-leaning metropolitanism?
:03:01. > :03:03.Is Sadiq Khan really a representative
:03:04. > :03:08.It's a complex map - different colours, and different
:03:09. > :03:17.And to help make sense of it, our political editor Nick Watt.
:03:18. > :03:26.Nick, make sense of it. What today did provided us with a reminder that
:03:27. > :03:31.we really live in the 30-something era of politics. The two main
:03:32. > :03:34.parties were scrabbling around in the early 30%, but in the general
:03:35. > :03:39.election it looks like the winner cannot get above the late 30s in a
:03:40. > :03:45.percentage and the second party, Labour, is in the low 30s. Why is
:03:46. > :03:49.that? They both face structural problems. Labour has the structural
:03:50. > :03:54.problem of now not existing in Scotland and a problem in southern
:03:55. > :03:58.England. The Conservatives have a problem in northern England and
:03:59. > :04:03.London. That means neither of the parties is going to get into 40%, so
:04:04. > :04:09.we will not see the politics that we grew up with, a dominant Margaret
:04:10. > :04:14.Thatcher, a dominant Tony Blair. It is interesting, you were talking
:04:15. > :04:18.about the kaleidoscope. We will find the kaleidoscope is shaken this
:04:19. > :04:25.year, not today, but on the 23rd of June when we have that referendum.
:04:26. > :04:29.That is the big picture. Let's focus on the stories people focus on these
:04:30. > :04:35.days, what it means for the leaders of the two main parties. The Jeremy
:04:36. > :04:43.Corbyn camp are saying they have seen of what they are calling a
:04:44. > :04:46.pre-coup copout. They mean that they were expecting those who have
:04:47. > :04:50.problems with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership would come out of the
:04:51. > :04:55.trenches overnight, their would-be MPs we have not heard about saying,
:04:56. > :04:58.it is time to think about his leadership, and they were expecting
:04:59. > :05:04.the coup would be launched on the 24th of June after the referendum.
:05:05. > :05:08.They are confident that is not going to happen. But what the critics are
:05:09. > :05:15.saying is it is OK for the moment, but you have got a year. But we will
:05:16. > :05:20.believe it when we see it. There is unease in the Conservative Party
:05:21. > :05:23.over Zac Goldsmith's campaign. We decided to stand back and have a
:05:24. > :05:28.look, what have we learned from these elections around the UK?
:05:29. > :05:35.A balmy spring evening outside London city hall as the parties wait
:05:36. > :05:40.for one of the final big results on the UK's attempt at a super Thursday
:05:41. > :05:44.election. What can seasoned political observers take away from
:05:45. > :05:50.these results? Labour is still in the game and a coup against Jeremy
:05:51. > :05:53.Corbyn is off the table until after the EU referendum and probably
:05:54. > :05:59.beyond. But these results suggest the parties have got a very long way
:06:00. > :06:03.to go to show it is a potential government in waiting. But let's
:06:04. > :06:07.have credit where credit is due. The leadership ran a very effective
:06:08. > :06:13.operation to manage expectations over Labour's performance. For the
:06:14. > :06:18.first time since 1910, they have come third in their traditional
:06:19. > :06:21.stronghold in Scotland. When the seats change and the boundaries
:06:22. > :06:26.changed at that the general election they will need to be 13% ahead in
:06:27. > :06:31.the polls in England in order to win and this does not suggest this is
:06:32. > :06:35.going to happen. Most leaders of the opposition when they start their job
:06:36. > :06:39.and go into these elections gain hundreds of seats. This is the first
:06:40. > :06:44.time in decades somebody has not achieved that. No conservative
:06:45. > :06:49.colossus despite what those pictures of Dave and Barack Obama might
:06:50. > :06:53.suggest. A poor showing in the southern shires in England will
:06:54. > :06:57.cause disappointment in Number Ten, though Ruth Davidson's success in
:06:58. > :07:01.Scotland suggest the Conservative and Unionist party is on its way
:07:02. > :07:06.back to being the party of the whole union once again. The fact Unionist
:07:07. > :07:12.party and the Conservatives gained seats in Scotland in quite a
:07:13. > :07:16.significant fashion, taking them away from Labour, is very important
:07:17. > :07:21.for the Conservatives who talk about being a real one nation Conservative
:07:22. > :07:25.Party. The United Kingdom is just that little bit more secure. The SNP
:07:26. > :07:31.failure to maintain its parliamentary majority means it will
:07:32. > :07:35.be more difficult to ask for a second referendum after a Brexit
:07:36. > :07:41.book, but the green success means there is a pro-independence majority
:07:42. > :07:49.in Hollywood. Quite a tough campaign, but not too tough. Sadiq
:07:50. > :07:54.Khan's campaign shows tactics must deal with facts and must not fear
:07:55. > :07:59.into US style culture war. That is the lessons that Goldsmith is
:08:00. > :08:03.tonight. Lynton Crosby is not invincible as an adviser to the
:08:04. > :08:09.Conservative Party. He understands Middle England and that was his
:08:10. > :08:14.point about their victory in the 2015 election. This suggests he does
:08:15. > :08:18.not understand modern London. Ukip is back in business, its success in
:08:19. > :08:24.Wales means it has a visible footprint in all three parts of
:08:25. > :08:26.Great Britain. It is a bit of a mixed blessing for Nigel Farage who
:08:27. > :08:33.sees his party slip into fourth place in the national vote share.
:08:34. > :08:38.Unlikely political bedfellows. Jeremy Corbyn is delighted that
:08:39. > :08:42.Jeremy Corbyn is safe, but so too is David Cameron who believes that
:08:43. > :08:45.every day the Labour leader remains in office will really help his
:08:46. > :08:53.successor as Tory leader when the next general election comes. Next
:08:54. > :08:58.week, we will see the EU referendum campaign picked up speed again. That
:08:59. > :08:59.is really an event that could reset British politics for a generation.
:09:00. > :09:04.We'll focus on the Conservatives first.
:09:05. > :09:06.A lot of controversy about the campaign in London.
:09:07. > :09:08.Zac Goldsmith's sister, Jemima Khan, tweeted this: "Sad that
:09:09. > :09:11.Zac's campaign did not reflect who I know him to be."
:09:12. > :09:12.Sayeeda Warsi, former Tory Chairman tweeted,
:09:13. > :09:16.campaign lost us the election, our reputation and credibility
:09:17. > :09:22.Well, it was said to be a campaign by the playbook of Tory
:09:23. > :09:26.It wasn't him in fact behind Zac, it was his company.
:09:27. > :09:31.But in strange timing, he was knighted by the Queen today.
:09:32. > :09:34.Earlier, I spoke to David Cameron's former right-hand man,
:09:35. > :09:37.Steve Hilton, never one in the mould of Sir Lynton.
:09:38. > :09:42.What did he make of the election of a muslim mayor in London?
:09:43. > :09:46.I think it's really great news, frankly.
:09:47. > :09:49.I think it is very powerful and positive message about London.
:09:50. > :09:52.It was interesting, last week and the week before I have been over
:09:53. > :09:55.on the east coast of America, in New York and Washington,
:09:56. > :09:57.and it was really interesting how much interest there
:09:58. > :10:03.Most of it was centred around the fact that this great
:10:04. > :10:07.cosmopolitan city could potentially elect a Muslim Mayor.
:10:08. > :10:10.You say all of that, a lot of people will say that
:10:11. > :10:13.Zac Goldsmith's campaign was, if you like, expressing the very
:10:14. > :10:17.opposite sentiments to the ones you have just expressed,
:10:18. > :10:19.which was dog whistle, bringing, in quite subtle ways,
:10:20. > :10:27.I don't know what your thoughts were about that campaign.
:10:28. > :10:30.The overall impression I got from Zac's campaign was of a rather
:10:31. > :10:35.old-fashioned and, frankly, uninspiring campaign.
:10:36. > :10:38.I was surprised about that because Zac, who I know pretty well,
:10:39. > :10:40.is actually a really interesting, thoughtful, somewhat
:10:41. > :10:44.antiestablishment character in politics and he has got a very
:10:45. > :10:47.interesting set of views of different kinds
:10:48. > :10:52.And it seemed to me that none of that actually was
:10:53. > :10:56.Which, to be honest, I found rather weird.
:10:57. > :11:00.But what I would say is that, at the very least, it's rather
:11:01. > :11:02.careless to allow your campaign to be characterised in that way and,
:11:03. > :11:05.frankly, it's rather amazing that, of all people, it is Zac Goldsmith
:11:06. > :11:08.who ends up, if you like, bringing back the Nasty Party label
:11:09. > :11:16.You would think something like that can be used to re-toxify the Tories.
:11:17. > :11:19.You were obviously involved there, trying to detoxify them back
:11:20. > :11:24.I think that is certainly what people are saying.
:11:25. > :11:28.As I say, I am not in a position to judge whether it is fair or not.
:11:29. > :11:31.But, you know, I have been involved in campaigns and you have to be
:11:32. > :11:34.careful to make sure that what you say and do cannot be
:11:35. > :11:38.misrepresented in ways that are fundamentally unhelpful.
:11:39. > :11:40.Of course your opponents are going to say things you don't
:11:41. > :11:43.agree with and try and distort what you do and so on,
:11:44. > :11:50.But I think that the way this particular accusation has
:11:51. > :11:53.been allowed to stick - frankly, even if that is unfair -
:11:54. > :11:56.shows that there is something there that at the very
:11:57. > :12:00.And, I think, could be pretty damaging, yes.
:12:01. > :12:03.I am sensing that you prefer something a little more positive
:12:04. > :12:06.and maybe think that this negativity has shown its limits?
:12:07. > :12:09.It seems to me that Zac's campaign was a real missed
:12:10. > :12:12.opportunity because London, it feels to me, is the kind of place
:12:13. > :12:15.where you could really do well with a more modern,
:12:16. > :12:20.less partisan, more inspiring and optimistic kind of campaign,
:12:21. > :12:24.given the kind of city it is and the fact that it is not
:12:25. > :12:27.necessarily the case that you have got so many people
:12:28. > :12:30.there who are dyed-in-the-world Labour or Conservative,
:12:31. > :12:36.I think that, therefore, a fresh, modern campaign could really have
:12:37. > :12:47.Well, let's talk to Matthew Hancock, Cabinet Office minister.
:12:48. > :12:55.It is not official, but we know Sadiq Khan has won. Do you welcome
:12:56. > :13:00.the fact that it is a great cosmopolitan city and it has a
:13:01. > :13:04.Muslim Mayor? Yes in a way. I voted for Zac Goldsmith, I think he would
:13:05. > :13:09.have been a better Mayor. He may well still be, we have not had the
:13:10. > :13:16.official declaration! But I think the fact that London can have a
:13:17. > :13:23.debate between two people of different religions reflecting the
:13:24. > :13:26.fact that we have got a multireligious city is overall
:13:27. > :13:32.positive for London. What did you think of the campaign? It has been
:13:33. > :13:37.widely panned and now we know definitively it did not work. It was
:13:38. > :13:41.criticised before, but now we know it did not work. I wonder whether
:13:42. > :13:47.you think any lessons need to be taken from that? I think that is a
:13:48. > :13:50.little unfair. I think the campaign had positive elements on housing and
:13:51. > :13:55.transport and especially on the environment which Zac Goldsmith has
:13:56. > :13:59.got a long history on and has been working on for many years. If you
:14:00. > :14:05.look at the statistics we have seen so far, the proportion of the boat
:14:06. > :14:09.that Zac got is very similar to the proportion we got in the general
:14:10. > :14:13.election a year ago in London. I think there is a bigger question.
:14:14. > :14:17.London has proved that at the general election last year that it
:14:18. > :14:22.is more difficult for us than other parts of the country. If you look at
:14:23. > :14:27.the rest of the country, we did pretty well in the English council
:14:28. > :14:34.elections, we took seats and we got cancelled away from Labour in key
:14:35. > :14:39.battle ground areas like Bury, in Lancashire, and Nuneaton. We all
:14:40. > :14:40.remember in Nuneaton. And then of course Scotland, which is a positive
:14:41. > :14:49.result for the Conservatives. In a word, are you satisfied with
:14:50. > :14:55.the campaign or does the Tory Party need to learn lessons that did not
:14:56. > :14:59.work in London, which is different from Nuneaton and Scotland? Clearly.
:15:00. > :15:04.What I am saying is there is something about London that is
:15:05. > :15:10.changing in a different way to the rest of the country. I think it is
:15:11. > :15:16.unfair to pin that specifically on this campaign. There is a bigger
:15:17. > :15:21.question. And that is clear from the fact that we did about as well in
:15:22. > :15:25.London at the General Election last year... What lesson do you take from
:15:26. > :15:31.the success of Ruth Davidson in Scotland? David Cameron implied if
:15:32. > :15:35.you campaign moderately, you can get votes and that is a lesson he drew
:15:36. > :15:40.from that, perhaps a failed criticism of Zac Goldsmith? I think
:15:41. > :15:45.she is a wonderful politicians. She is a modern, compassionate
:15:46. > :15:51.conservative. She is up meat and vibrant and is a potential for real
:15:52. > :15:56.realignment of politics there. When you give the powers of tax and spend
:15:57. > :16:01.to Scotland, instead of this Scottish debate being constantly
:16:02. > :16:05.just about how you are going to spend the money that comes here,
:16:06. > :16:12.instead it becomes about how much as well and should be put up taxes?
:16:13. > :16:17.There is space for a centrist, sensible Conservative Party to make
:16:18. > :16:23.the argument that has not been heard in Scotland for 30 years. Would be
:16:24. > :16:29.nice if she was later -- leader of the Conservative Party overall? That
:16:30. > :16:37.cannot happen, cannot? David Cameron has just had a pretty good set of
:16:38. > :16:43.results. This is a new patchwork. We have a government that cannot get a
:16:44. > :16:47.majority of 100, that they used to, and will have to U-turn on
:16:48. > :16:52.everything. Today, another big U-turn on the academies programme. I
:16:53. > :16:57.will not waste time trying to list the others. Amazing what this is
:16:58. > :17:02.meaning? We can come back to that but I want to pick up on the
:17:03. > :17:07.question, you said that no longer can we get the sort of majorities we
:17:08. > :17:12.used to. Actually, one of the most significant results from tonight is
:17:13. > :17:19.that because in Scotland the SNP have entrenched, they lost the
:17:20. > :17:21.majority, and we came second above the Labour Party, it is almost
:17:22. > :17:27.impossible for the Labour Party to win the next election without the
:17:28. > :17:35.support of the SNP. And that is astonishing. That is no scare. That
:17:36. > :17:39.is a fact and it was at the last election and it looks like from the
:17:40. > :17:44.results tonight, it will be a fact at the next election. The Scottish
:17:45. > :17:47.result in significant within Scotland, the Conservative Party
:17:48. > :17:53.coming second, what it is also important for the next General
:17:54. > :17:58.Election. Talking of skiers, eight police forces investigating
:17:59. > :18:02.Conservative election expenses and they have an extension on the time
:18:03. > :18:09.they are allowed to investigate this. Are you and the party scared
:18:10. > :18:15.of the implications of that? Something like 27 MPs, the expenses
:18:16. > :18:19.being investigated from last year? No, as far as I understand all of
:18:20. > :18:23.the rules were followed and I'm sure the investigation will...
:18:24. > :18:26.Administrative errors? There is an investigation and I will not get
:18:27. > :18:27.into the details but as far as we know those rules were followed.
:18:28. > :18:30.Thank you. Well, it is a feature of these
:18:31. > :18:33.results that two of the politicians who stand tallest in the UK right
:18:34. > :18:35.now, are from Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson,
:18:36. > :18:38.the scottish results producing Let's go to Edinburgh
:18:39. > :18:42.for more on that. In the Scottish elections
:18:43. > :18:54.it was the Union versus independence and that created not one,
:18:55. > :18:57.not two, but three stories. The SNP won an unprecedented third
:18:58. > :19:00.term with a result just short Ruth Davidson lead the Tories
:19:01. > :19:06.back into contention after decades of decline
:19:07. > :19:09.as the main opposition party, leading David Cameron to tweet
:19:10. > :19:12."she will stand up to the SNP and give Scotland
:19:13. > :19:15.strong opposition." For Labour it was a disastrous
:19:16. > :19:19.result, their worst in history. It's now a different political
:19:20. > :19:21.dynamic in Scotland, one which Nicola Sturgeon recognised
:19:22. > :19:36.when she said today she would aim The government I lead will be an
:19:37. > :19:41.inclusive government. It will be firm on our determination to deliver
:19:42. > :19:46.on the commitments we made to the Scottish people but it will also
:19:47. > :19:50.reach out and seek to work with others across the Parliament to find
:19:51. > :19:53.common ground and build consensus. So what were the voters
:19:54. > :19:56.telling the politicians? I began the day in Glasgow,
:19:57. > :19:58.now in constituency terms Glasgow's political history has been
:19:59. > :20:06.turned upside down here. In the vast post-war
:20:07. > :20:09.housing estates Labour Even a decade ago,
:20:10. > :20:18.it was unthinkable that this constituency of Glasgow Pollok
:20:19. > :20:20.would do anything other than elect a Labour MSP
:20:21. > :20:23.with votes by the bucketload, but this is how much
:20:24. > :20:25.things have changed. In 1999, in the first elections
:20:26. > :20:30.to the Scottish Parliament, every single constituency MSP
:20:31. > :20:33.in Glasgow was Labour. Last night, the voters of Pollock
:20:34. > :20:36.helped ensure that every single So what contribution do the 16
:20:37. > :20:49.and 17-year-olds make in Pollock as they become the first
:20:50. > :20:52.under 18s to vote in People are saying now that in this
:20:53. > :21:05.election it was still Yes, independence obviously matters
:21:06. > :21:09.because it is a big issue. Especially since the referendum
:21:10. > :21:11.and a result that a lot But it is not the only
:21:12. > :21:14.issue that matters. It is not as if education
:21:15. > :21:17.and taxation are not They say when you want a piece
:21:18. > :21:21.of wisdom, ask a taxi driver. The question - when Labour was last
:21:22. > :21:26.dominant in the country, who or what The reply came back -
:21:27. > :21:31.Donald Dewar. I think we what we need to do
:21:32. > :21:36.is identify how we speak And therefore we need to find ways
:21:37. > :21:44.to give back to those individuals We need to build trust over the next
:21:45. > :21:50.few years so that people can have I'm genuinely convinced
:21:51. > :21:55.that the long-term solution - there is perennial debate
:21:56. > :21:57.in Scotland about the constitution - is to have a federal Britain
:21:58. > :22:00.and the Labour Party The Edinburgh-Glasgow divide
:22:01. > :22:05.is often exaggerated but in political terms now
:22:06. > :22:07.it is stark. I have left the West and I'm headed
:22:08. > :22:12.East to the capital. If Glasgow is firmly
:22:13. > :22:15.pro-independence, then in Edinburgh, people have voted for the party
:22:16. > :22:18.they think will do the best job Does this election tell
:22:19. > :22:24.you that there is no appetite I think there is a range of things
:22:25. > :22:32.going on out there with voters. Some voters see perfectly well
:22:33. > :22:35.that the case perhaps wasn't made last time and not everybody
:22:36. > :22:38.was convinced and they are prepared The person the voters think will do
:22:39. > :22:46.best at taking on the SNP is Ruth The Conservatives are now the main
:22:47. > :22:50.opposition in Scotland. They have knocked Labour
:22:51. > :22:53.into third position. That is an astonishing feat
:22:54. > :22:59.and total embarrassment for Labour. And I think Ruth Davidson has gone
:23:00. > :23:02.some way to banishing the ghost She doesn't think that
:23:03. > :23:07.many of the people who voted for her are necessarily
:23:08. > :23:09.what she calls true blue, They voted for her because they have
:23:10. > :23:14.given her a political job to do. And I met one voter who did
:23:15. > :23:22.exactly that. No, I don't have any particular
:23:23. > :23:27.party allegiance but this time I did
:23:28. > :23:28.vote Conservative. Just because I felt that
:23:29. > :23:33.Ruth Davidson would offer the strong opposition that Scotland has been
:23:34. > :23:37.lacking for so long. It almost feels as if the SNP has
:23:38. > :23:40.had an unchallenged run The SNP's historic win of a third
:23:41. > :23:47.term but short of an overall majority by two puts a degree
:23:48. > :23:49.of power in the hands And that is exactly the way
:23:50. > :23:53.the Scottish electoral system The Greens do pose
:23:54. > :23:58.a bit of a difficulty. They are far to the left of the SNP,
:23:59. > :24:01.their position on fracking and income tax is not something
:24:02. > :24:06.the SNP would be comfortable with. So it could be that even
:24:07. > :24:12.the Lib Dems come back into play Aside from all the horse
:24:13. > :24:18.trading that lies ahead, the constitutional argument isn't
:24:19. > :24:20.going to go away. But this result reduces the chance
:24:21. > :24:39.of another referendum I am joined by Fiona Heslop, the SNP
:24:40. > :24:46.minister, and Myers Briggs, a mSP and Tory MP. The historic third term
:24:47. > :24:53.but no overall majority, that rules out any idea of another referendum
:24:54. > :24:56.in the lifetime of this Parliament? It is a historic win and the first
:24:57. > :25:01.party to get over 1 million votes but we will listen to the people of
:25:02. > :25:05.Scotland. The people don't appear to want another referendum on
:25:06. > :25:09.independence. If you look at the numbers, there is a majority in
:25:10. > :25:14.favour of independence in terms of MSPs that were elected but we
:25:15. > :25:17.clearly said in the manifesto that our job is to persuade people and
:25:18. > :25:23.that is exactly what we will do but in the meantime we have to govern
:25:24. > :25:27.well and it is a record victory. Would it be fair to say that Ruth
:25:28. > :25:32.Davidson did not even think she would get this result? It has been a
:25:33. > :25:35.spec that can result for the party and we are honoured that the people
:25:36. > :25:38.have put their trust in the Conservative Party at the selection
:25:39. > :25:44.and we have become the official opposition. As we heard, and she
:25:45. > :25:48.said herself, a lot of people who voted Tory are not Conservatives and
:25:49. > :25:52.presumably Apple temper the agenda you put forward? The people of
:25:53. > :25:58.Scotland has asked us to do a job which is to hold her government to
:25:59. > :26:02.account and we are saying that it is time to turn the page on the concert
:26:03. > :26:08.usual arguments. This is the way the process was designed. Is it good for
:26:09. > :26:13.democracy to have to be held to account more tightly and have to
:26:14. > :26:20.negotiate, line by line? This is our third term, the first German had
:26:21. > :26:23.only 47 votes and we ran in minority government and we now have 63,
:26:24. > :26:29.effectively administering the government is only 64 votes over the
:26:30. > :26:32.past period so it is perfectly possible but good politics means
:26:33. > :26:38.that when we were a majority, we behaved like a minority as part of
:26:39. > :26:43.the process is taking people with us and we have a good system that can
:26:44. > :26:47.involve the parliament and take things forward so the journey we are
:26:48. > :26:52.on is about constitutional development in Scotland and the
:26:53. > :26:54.Democratic excitement. We will talk about the key policies in a moment
:26:55. > :27:00.that talk about the budget because you will remember, the last time
:27:01. > :27:03.there was a minority SNP administration the Conservatives
:27:04. > :27:09.voted with the SNP to get the budget through. Will you do that again? We
:27:10. > :27:11.need to see what the SNP put forward in this Parliament and we will work
:27:12. > :27:15.constructively with the government and we think it will help to me
:27:16. > :27:19.Scotland forward but we want the government to focus on the issues
:27:20. > :27:22.that matter to people, who want them to look again at repealing the nine
:27:23. > :27:28.person policy which has seen every child having a state guardian
:27:29. > :27:33.allocated to them and we want to focus on creating jobs and growth in
:27:34. > :27:38.the country, we are falling of the UK in terms of the economy so we
:27:39. > :27:42.need to see action. It is fair to say that the main Guardian policy
:27:43. > :27:47.has been very controversial? Because certain media have made it that way.
:27:48. > :27:52.The issues that people are interested in, they want jobs for
:27:53. > :27:55.the young people and a Health Service, we need investment above
:27:56. > :27:59.inflation, we have a good track record in terms of achievement and
:28:00. > :28:03.tacking the inequalities in Scotland. That is what people want
:28:04. > :28:08.to see us focus on and that is what we will do. In a progressive way.
:28:09. > :28:14.Things like the doubling of childcare provision for 2 euros and
:28:15. > :28:18.three rows? Will you back that? Yes and that is in our manifesto, we
:28:19. > :28:24.will work together when we can improve the country. It does sound
:28:25. > :28:32.very cosy. Leadership and vision. It will not intrude on the very public
:28:33. > :28:37.grief, but will you work with Kezia Dugdale in this way? We have a
:28:38. > :28:41.minority government so all the parties I hope can put forward ideas
:28:42. > :28:45.and policies and the government will listen to us on these and we will
:28:46. > :28:49.work together to try to take this forward and Kezia Dugdale will have
:28:50. > :28:52.areas she will want to pursue but as the official opposition our key
:28:53. > :29:00.project in this Parliament and the thing people voted for is for us to
:29:01. > :29:04.hold the government to account. We know that in the parliament we can
:29:05. > :29:08.take everybody with us in terms of a number of issues that we have laid
:29:09. > :29:12.on and it isn't in port and we engage, Scotland is very engaged in
:29:13. > :29:16.politics. It was to see the Parliament striving Scotland forward
:29:17. > :29:20.and I think that is a good example of how democratic mandates can work,
:29:21. > :29:24.we can have a different type of parliament in Scotland and the rest
:29:25. > :29:28.of the UK and we can do that successfully. 17-year-olds getting
:29:29. > :29:36.the vote, a very proud example. Thank you.
:29:37. > :29:43.We enjoyed seeing the dog have a bit of refreshment in the background.
:29:44. > :29:45.Let's talk about Labour now, and its identity crisis.
:29:46. > :29:47.It's not involved in one simple battle against the Conservatives,
:29:48. > :29:51.In Scotland it's fighting for Unionist votes with the Tories.
:29:52. > :29:53.It's competing for left-wing votes with the SNP.
:29:54. > :29:57.it's trying to keep UKIP away from its working class votes.
:29:58. > :30:00.And it's fighting the Tories in London and elsewhere.
:30:01. > :30:04.But perhaps the most important battle is for the heart and soul
:30:05. > :30:11.We'll discuss Labour's challenges shortly.
:30:12. > :30:14.But Katie Razzall went to Nuneaton today, to canvas views there.
:30:15. > :30:17.That of course is the Midlands swing town that went Tory last year,
:30:18. > :30:20.telling us on election night, that Labour had no hope of winning.
:30:21. > :30:25.Big glasses, embarrassing photo opportunities, the parallels
:30:26. > :30:38.And of course there is often a nasty surprise in the end.
:30:39. > :30:41.So, did last night's results leave the Conservatives smiling
:30:42. > :30:47.Or is the picture just a little bit more confused?
:30:48. > :30:50.Here in Nuneaton the main act nationally is the Conservatives.
:30:51. > :30:54.In 2015 with the general election still up in the air,
:30:55. > :30:57.David Cameron said he knew he had won when bellwether Nuneaton
:30:58. > :31:04.But locally Labour are the only show in town.
:31:05. > :31:07.Last night the Conservatives won three seats from Labour.
:31:08. > :31:11.The swing from red to blue in Nuneaton Bedworth was around 11%.
:31:12. > :31:17.But Labour still controls the council with 25 of the 34 seats.
:31:18. > :31:20.With Labour also keeping control of nearby Coventry and the Tories
:31:21. > :31:25.losing control of Rugby, I sought help from Nuneaton's Conservative MP
:31:26. > :31:32.The Labour Party should be making more gains than they have,
:31:33. > :31:35.they should certainly not have lost any seats at all in a place
:31:36. > :31:38.like Nuneaton and they should have been worrying us in some
:31:39. > :31:41.of our safest seats and increasing their vote share and trying
:31:42. > :31:47.That is one way of looking at it, but it seems the same result can be
:31:48. > :31:53.I do remember when almost everybody in this village worked in the pits.
:31:54. > :31:56.In a place with reminders that this is prime Labour territory,
:31:57. > :31:59.old colliery country, the Labour leader of the council had
:32:00. > :32:05.We made very minor losses, we are very pleased with the results.
:32:06. > :32:08.So you think what happened in Nuneaton is a good result
:32:09. > :32:13.25 out of 34 in the council, that is a very good
:32:14. > :32:18.Did Jeremy Corbyn come up for you on the doorstep?
:32:19. > :32:21.I have to say that the only people who have mentioned Jeremy Corbyn
:32:22. > :32:27.We have had no comment about Jeremy Corbyn whatsoever.
:32:28. > :32:31.I have been on the doorstep, I have been in ballot stations,
:32:32. > :32:35.nobody is mentioning Jeremy Corbyn in Nuneaton.
:32:36. > :32:40.Ultimately, though, if Labour wants to win places like Nuneaton in 2020,
:32:41. > :32:44.whose scalps Labour are offering will matter.
:32:45. > :32:46.Did Jeremy Corbyn come into your mind at all?
:32:47. > :32:53.It might be different with the general election,
:32:54. > :32:58.He comes across as honest and genuine.
:32:59. > :33:01.He is a radical lefty, so it's almost too far left,
:33:02. > :33:07.but then again it is nice to have two-party politics.
:33:08. > :33:09.The Prime Minister is literally getting away with stuff.
:33:10. > :33:13.He can be a bit more tough with his questioning.
:33:14. > :33:15.Nuneaton is fairly typical of these local elections.
:33:16. > :33:18.Here turnout was low and of the people I spoke
:33:19. > :33:21.to who voted, a lot had not, many told me they voted on local
:33:22. > :33:25.issues and that insulates national trends.
:33:26. > :33:29.But in turn that makes judging Labour or Conservative success
:33:30. > :33:37.Results in Nuneaton and the like have not given
:33:38. > :33:41.Corbyn Labour a resounding mandate, nor offered his opponents legitimate
:33:42. > :33:51.This noisy internal row does not look like ending any time soon.
:33:52. > :33:53.I'm joined now by Lord Falconer, Charlie Falconer,
:33:54. > :34:05.Good evening. We are trying to work out whether we should interpret
:34:06. > :34:11.these results as telling as anything interesting about the direction
:34:12. > :34:16.Labour is taking and its leader. Sadiq Khan winning London, is that
:34:17. > :34:22.an endorsement of Jeremy Corbyn, or is that an endorsement of Sadiq
:34:23. > :34:28.Khan? Traditionally in London you have to be a defined, identifiable
:34:29. > :34:31.personality in order to win. Ken Livingstone, Boris Johnson, Sadiq
:34:32. > :34:36.Khan. You cannot win in London if you are simply a machine politician.
:34:37. > :34:41.I think probably the success of Sadiq Khan in London is his
:34:42. > :34:45.personality, plus the fact it is essentially a Labour city in
:34:46. > :34:54.politics. I think it is more to do with Sadiq Khan... And Jeremy
:34:55. > :34:59.Corbyn. That is right. What about the failure in Scotland? One of the
:35:00. > :35:03.things people said was when he Jeremy Corbyn became leader he may
:35:04. > :35:10.be able to lay more with the left wing voters to defected to SNP, but
:35:11. > :35:16.that has not worked. That is not his fault. What happened in Scotland was
:35:17. > :35:22.that from September 2014 there was a detachment of the heartland vote of
:35:23. > :35:29.labour to the SNP and there has been a fundamental shift. It has not come
:35:30. > :35:35.back. It has not come back because September 2014, or the build-up to
:35:36. > :35:42.the referendum, was when it started. The next acceleration was the
:35:43. > :35:49.general election in May, 2015. The process in Scotland is about, I
:35:50. > :35:57.think, anti-Westminster politics with a plausible alternative, namely
:35:58. > :36:01.Scotland first, and a non-Westminster party. The battle in
:36:02. > :36:08.Scotland is about who is the opposition to a party that is, as it
:36:09. > :36:13.were... May be the Conservatives were a clearer opposition than
:36:14. > :36:18.Labour. As time goes on, Labour can regain its position in Scotland if
:36:19. > :36:23.it becomes a plausible national party. Although the Tories have
:36:24. > :36:28.overtaken them because they appeared completely solid on the union, at
:36:29. > :36:31.the end of the day the party that can make a difference in Scotland is
:36:32. > :36:38.the one that can connect Westminster with Scotland and I do not think the
:36:39. > :36:43.Tories will ever get back like that. No real lesson in London that Corbyn
:36:44. > :36:47.is working, no less than that he is failing in Scotland. The English
:36:48. > :36:54.councils, he did quite well in that. Crawley is an example. They were
:36:55. > :36:59.expected to take a pounding. Are you drawing any conclusions there? In
:37:00. > :37:02.terms of what happened in England, indeed the whole country, we ended
:37:03. > :37:11.up ahead of the Tories and we were ahead of our position. Unless you
:37:12. > :37:16.benchmark it against wipe-out, it is terrible for an opposition. I would
:37:17. > :37:20.not accept it was terrible for an opposition. What I would say is the
:37:21. > :37:25.way the public are responding, for all the public, whether you are
:37:26. > :37:30.responding to the Tories are Labour, things are very much in flux. The
:37:31. > :37:33.Tories have gone down. It was significant that David Cameron went
:37:34. > :37:38.to Peter borough where they did not get one extra place as his
:37:39. > :37:48.triumphant place to go to, he was clutching at straws. Tony Blair won
:37:49. > :37:57.2000 seats, you lost seats. Tony Blair took power when we were at the
:37:58. > :38:04.point of going up like that, Corbyn took a position when we were on the
:38:05. > :38:08.way down. How did it reconnect? It is still early days, but you do not
:38:09. > :38:14.want to be paralysed saying, is this going to work or do we need to
:38:15. > :38:18.change tack? When will you decide? You need to have a leadership that
:38:19. > :38:26.is capable of convincing the public that it is not an apologist, for
:38:27. > :38:31.leaks, but is genuine, and also convinces the public that by having
:38:32. > :38:34.such a party it will not destroy the prosperity of the country. It is
:38:35. > :38:38.when you get to that point that you connect. We either party at the
:38:39. > :38:46.moment that is the strongest on the first. If you do not pick up seats
:38:47. > :38:51.in Scotland in 2020, you need to win seats like Canterbury in order to
:38:52. > :38:57.have a majority. You are miles away. I do not know the precise details of
:38:58. > :39:02.Canterbury. One of the things that happened today in Crawley, Exeter,
:39:03. > :39:08.Southampton, we held on in those places. But you need to win 100
:39:09. > :39:13.seats in England. There is a process at the moment as far as the public
:39:14. > :39:16.is concerned of looking across the political firmament and making
:39:17. > :39:20.decisions. I do not think remotely that you could say either party was
:39:21. > :39:24.in a position where the next election is fixed.
:39:25. > :39:26.It's been a difficult day for pundits with such mixed results.
:39:27. > :39:29.No party has been blown to oblivion, no knock-out winners either.
:39:30. > :39:32.I'm with the New Statesman's Stephen Bush, and Isabel
:39:33. > :39:44.I think we should start on Labour. Stephen, what do you think either
:39:45. > :39:49.lessons you can pick up about the leadership? We know Jeremy Corbyn
:39:50. > :39:54.does very well in places where voters are diverse, well educated
:39:55. > :39:58.and young. He does well in a young city like London. It looks like
:39:59. > :40:08.Labour will win Salford and Liverpool and Bristol may Orrell --
:40:09. > :40:13.Mayers. The question is whether or not they can find a way of appealing
:40:14. > :40:18.not just to the future, but to the present and at the moment it looks
:40:19. > :40:21.like they are not doing it. You did not think the scores in England were
:40:22. > :40:27.very good for them at the end of the day. They were ahead of the Tories
:40:28. > :40:32.on vote share. Jeremy Corbyn has done a very good job of his
:40:33. > :40:36.expectation management, but it is a big flashing light warning sign for
:40:37. > :40:41.the opposition to lose seats in mid-term. That has not happened
:40:42. > :40:44.since 1985, which was the prelude to a landslide defeat for Labour and
:40:45. > :40:50.there is no reason to suggest that will again. We are still waiting for
:40:51. > :40:54.the evidence that Jeremy Corbyn is leading a popular movement that is
:40:55. > :41:01.galvanising support from people who are not normally excited by
:41:02. > :41:07.politics. It is the opposite spectrum, but it is like Donald
:41:08. > :41:11.Trump invigorating new voters. It makes it more difficult for him to
:41:12. > :41:14.claim that he is taking the Labour Party forward and he has to make
:41:15. > :41:19.arguments that suggest he will defy the laws of physics, in the same way
:41:20. > :41:26.Ed Miliband said he had to even though he was behind in the
:41:27. > :41:29.leadership and the economy in the general. Election For Jeremy Corbyn
:41:30. > :41:33.not to be making gains when an opposition party should be making
:41:34. > :41:39.gains, makes it much more harder for him to say that it is conforming to
:41:40. > :41:43.conventional politics. It is hard to see a route out of leadership for
:41:44. > :41:48.Jeremy Corbyn at this point. It is hard for his opponents to knock him
:41:49. > :41:54.aside. Yes because the Labour membership has always had a strong
:41:55. > :41:57.urge for unity. If you look at that losing votes in four different
:41:58. > :42:03.places, I do not think the average member thinks there is anyone who
:42:04. > :42:09.can achieve that task, so they might as well stick with a guy who shares
:42:10. > :42:13.their values and go down in style. Where do you think the Conservatives
:42:14. > :42:17.are left at the end of this? They are not crying. They must be sighing
:42:18. > :42:21.with relief because they have had a terrible couple of months ever since
:42:22. > :42:26.the budget on the number of policies they have had to make a U-turn on,
:42:27. > :42:30.including today on the academies which they sneaked out when
:42:31. > :42:34.everybody was writing about Labour. For them not to lose seats is a huge
:42:35. > :42:41.relief, but the London result has not been good for them and it has
:42:42. > :42:44.tested their campaigning instincts. They are conceding that London is
:42:45. > :42:49.not the place for them, which is not a great place to be if you are a
:42:50. > :42:54.government. There are seven or 8 million people in the country. It
:42:55. > :42:57.may be a test of negative campaigning, but it is also a test
:42:58. > :43:02.of whether you can have a candidate who does not look like he wants to
:43:03. > :43:06.win in London. People come to London from all over the world to realise
:43:07. > :43:10.their dreams. If we have somebody running for political office who is
:43:11. > :43:17.not driven, that does not go down well in a city where everyone works
:43:18. > :43:21.long hours. I am not suggesting Ruth Davidson for leader of the
:43:22. > :43:24.Conservative Party, although lots of people have, but that she sure what
:43:25. > :43:30.the new leader of the Conservative Party could look like and what the
:43:31. > :43:36.party could unite around? Yes, a happy warrior, somebody who has not
:43:37. > :43:42.gone to a proportional, somebody who people say, she seems nice. That is
:43:43. > :43:48.that post-Brexit future, somebody in the recent Davidson mould. It is all
:43:49. > :43:52.about brand Ruth, so if you have got somebody who can build something
:43:53. > :43:58.based on their own name, that could work quite well, like Boris. I said
:43:59. > :44:03.it was another nail in the coffin for the 2-party system. It is like a
:44:04. > :44:08.patchwork. It is difficult for Labour to win in different parts of
:44:09. > :44:13.the UK with one message. It has got different challenges in different
:44:14. > :44:18.parts. Can Jeremy Corbyn really need the party with one united message?
:44:19. > :44:22.Even if 2-party politics is not dead, one party cannot speak with
:44:23. > :44:26.the same voice around the country any more. It is complicated. Thank
:44:27. > :44:30.That's it, at the end of a long election process.
:44:31. > :44:33.And we go through the whole voting thing again in seven weeks.
:44:34. > :44:34.That's it from Newsnight, now for Artsnight.
:44:35. > :44:37.David Baddiel travels to New York to ask whether Thomas Carlisle's
:44:38. > :44:41.theory that Great Men shape the main narrative of history has
:44:42. > :44:48.This programme contains some strong language
:44:49. > :44:53.the thinker Thomas Carlyle came up with the great man theory -