:00:08. > :00:10.The one thing which is absolutely dependable, is that anything Boris
:00:11. > :00:12.says, you can find him saying the opposite only
:00:13. > :00:21.The Conservatives are at each other's throats
:00:22. > :00:24.In an exclusive interview Chris Patten doesn't hold back.
:00:25. > :00:28.I'll be asking Jacob Rees-Mogg who called Michael Heseltine
:00:29. > :00:32.a frightful old humbug, if the rancour runs too deep
:00:33. > :00:37.The Prime Minister has announced that we are upping our engagement
:00:38. > :00:39.with Libya, sending a warship to the territory, and personnel
:00:40. > :00:55.The way it has been dealt with in Iraq and Syria has shown to be
:00:56. > :01:04.reasonably successful. And I think taking that model and transposing it
:01:05. > :01:05.to Libya, has to be a good thing. What kinds of backgrounds do these
:01:06. > :01:13.city idiots come from? The government wants a background
:01:14. > :01:15.checklist for job interviews to stop An economist and expert
:01:16. > :01:21.on social mobility backs it. A public school educated solicitor
:01:22. > :01:31.thinks it's a terrible idea. The closer to the date
:01:32. > :01:36.of the referendum we get, the more difficult it is to see how
:01:37. > :01:39.the Conservative party is going to bind itself together again,
:01:40. > :01:42.the more visceral the language, the thicker the mud
:01:43. > :01:45.that's being slung. If the issue of the EU
:01:46. > :01:48.is at the heart of their political credo, how can Cabinet mnisters
:01:49. > :01:51.so opposed to each other sit around And then there's Boris,
:01:52. > :02:07.not in the Cabinet, but a big beast roaring at David Cameron -
:02:08. > :02:09.just yesterday - about the scandal of the government's failure
:02:10. > :02:11.to curb immigration. The former Tory Chairman Chris
:02:12. > :02:13.Patten, and current Chancellor of Oxford University -
:02:14. > :02:15.a big beast himself - has given an exclusive interview
:02:16. > :02:17.to Newsnight's David Grossman in which his criticism
:02:18. > :02:19.of Boris Johnston in in which his criticism
:02:20. > :02:21.of Boris Johnson in Does it make you proud that the main
:02:22. > :02:25.protagonists on either I'm proud of two of them,
:02:26. > :02:29.I'm not sure about the other two! Particularly since their regard
:02:30. > :02:31.for the truth seems They seem to economise on the verite
:02:32. > :02:39.to a certain extent. Let's talk about how
:02:40. > :02:42.the campaign is going, in your view, through
:02:43. > :02:44.some of those people. I was looking back at some
:02:45. > :02:47.of the archive and there was a wonderful shot of you coming
:02:48. > :02:50.down the stairs of Central Office in about 1992, I think it was,
:02:51. > :02:53.and following you is a young man wearing red braces,
:02:54. > :02:54.who is recognisable What do you think about his
:02:55. > :02:58.contribution to all of this? For a start, we wouldn't be having
:02:59. > :03:02.a referendum were it not for him. Well, I think we wouldn't be having
:03:03. > :03:07.a referendum were it not for the way that this psychodrama has engulfed
:03:08. > :03:09.the Conservative Party ever since the ERM debacle,
:03:10. > :03:13.and I suppose ever since Margaret I think she was got rid
:03:14. > :03:18.of because of the poll tax, rather than Europe,
:03:19. > :03:21.but that's another matter. I think David Cameron
:03:22. > :03:23.is incomparably the best qualified I'm not known to be terribly servile
:03:24. > :03:30.in my attitude to people, but I think he's clever,
:03:31. > :03:33.he's got good judgment, and if anyone can put this wreckage
:03:34. > :03:39.back together again after - I hope - we have voted in favour
:03:40. > :03:43.of staying in the European Union, I just hope we don't go
:03:44. > :03:47.through all this again. Yeah, I worry that for a lot
:03:48. > :03:57.of the Brexiteers, in a sort of spittle-flecked way,
:03:58. > :04:00.this is a never-end-um, What do you make of Boris Johnson's
:04:01. > :04:06.contribution? Jean-Claude Juncker has said
:04:07. > :04:09.he's making stuff up. Yes, of course he is,
:04:10. > :04:12.but he always has. One thing which is absolutely
:04:13. > :04:16.dependable is that anything Boris says, you can find him saying
:04:17. > :04:18.the opposite only So I don't take his intellectual
:04:19. > :04:24.contribution to this campaign, although he is
:04:25. > :04:27.a perfectly clever man. I think one of the things he resents
:04:28. > :04:31.is that he didn't get as good But Boris just makes it
:04:32. > :04:36.up as he goes along. And you come across people
:04:37. > :04:38.like that. There is a sense in which you can't
:04:39. > :04:42.call Boris a liar. I think he's one of those people
:04:43. > :04:45.in life who simply doesn't really understand the difference
:04:46. > :04:49.between fact and fiction. And if he can make a good joke
:04:50. > :04:55.by saying something, or if he can write a newspaper
:04:56. > :04:58.article by referring to Hitler and the European Union, he does it,
:04:59. > :05:01.and he doesn't think about it. But he will be saying the opposite
:05:02. > :05:04.in a few months' time. You know what Boris Johnson
:05:05. > :05:09.would say if he was sat here? He would say, Chris Patten,
:05:10. > :05:12.he was somebody who advocated We would be in a much bigger mess
:05:13. > :05:17.if he had had his way. Why should we listen to him
:05:18. > :05:19.on this matter? Actually, what I was really
:05:20. > :05:21.in favour of, and I don't want to get into complicated
:05:22. > :05:24.details, was a common currency, I put my hand up, everybody
:05:25. > :05:35.occasionally makes a mistake, Though it's worth making
:05:36. > :05:47.this additional point, that I think if we had joined
:05:48. > :05:50.the euro, it might have avoided some of the mistakes that have
:05:51. > :05:52.been made since. As a former chairman
:05:53. > :05:54.of the Conservative Party, how does David Cameron bring
:05:55. > :05:57.the party back together again? I think it would be very
:05:58. > :06:05.difficult for him. Are people like Mr Gove
:06:06. > :06:08.and Mr Johnson, Mr Duncan Smith - once the quiet man of British
:06:09. > :06:11.politics, happy days! Are they all going to require
:06:12. > :06:14.Mr Cameron to go cap in hand around Europe for the next few years trying
:06:15. > :06:18.to negotiate new trade deals and new agreements with the
:06:19. > :06:22.European Union? If we vote to stay in,
:06:23. > :06:30.which I hope we do, he will have to balance managing the party
:06:31. > :06:34.with making sure that people I'm sure he will know now,
:06:35. > :06:41.to borrow a phrase of Ken Clarke's, or a metaphor of Ken Clarke's,
:06:42. > :06:45.that there are some people on the right, you give them a bun
:06:46. > :06:48.today and they come back I think some people have to be made
:06:49. > :06:56.aware of the fact that we only have But he will have to try to bring
:06:57. > :07:02.the party together. It will be easier, if,
:07:03. > :07:05.as I said earlier, it will be easier if people accept the result,
:07:06. > :07:10.and accept that we don't go I'm joined now from Bristol
:07:11. > :07:19.by the pro-leave campaigner and Conservative MP,
:07:20. > :07:24.Jacob Rees-Mogg. Somebody Chris Patten called a
:07:25. > :07:37.spittle flecked Brexiteer. Good evening to you. Chris Patten
:07:38. > :07:42.called it the Conservative psychodrama. I wonder if you think a
:07:43. > :07:48.lot of the anger and division is synthetic or very deeply felt and
:07:49. > :07:54.difficult to reconcile? Well, Lord Patten is a very great family
:07:55. > :07:58.friend, a good friend of my father's and was very generous to me when I
:07:59. > :08:01.was younger. He's a man of endless good humour and I think his anger is
:08:02. > :08:08.almost certainly synthetic he's far too similar -- civilised a man to
:08:09. > :08:13.believe a lot of what he said to you in that interview. Does he, like
:08:14. > :08:17.Boris Johnson, not understand truth from fiction? I wouldn't say that,
:08:18. > :08:21.he's a political pugilist and he recognises that Boris is twice as
:08:22. > :08:26.trusted as the Prime Minister on the European issue so he's trying to
:08:27. > :08:29.bash down Boris to support the prime and Esther's position. From a
:08:30. > :08:35.pro-Remain point of view, it's a rational thing to do. -- Prime
:08:36. > :08:39.Minister. You have called into question the veracity of what Chris
:08:40. > :08:44.Patten said, yet he is very heartfelt in what he is saying about
:08:45. > :08:49.the manner in which this debate is being conducted. Lord Patten has
:08:50. > :08:54.always been a political showman. He is very good at the theatrical part
:08:55. > :08:57.of politics. He has made an intervention in accord with that.
:08:58. > :09:02.He's also a passionate pro-European and always has been. What he's doing
:09:03. > :09:06.isn't unreasonable. I see why the remaining party want to damage Boris
:09:07. > :09:11.Johnson because he's hugely popular and trusted across the country and
:09:12. > :09:18.has been putting the Leave I didn't across very well. Let's talk about
:09:19. > :09:23.Boris Johnson. -- the Leave argument across. He makes it up as he goes
:09:24. > :09:28.along, says Chris Patten. You could take that to be something relatively
:09:29. > :09:32.funny, like you can't have a handoff bananas in the European Union, it's
:09:33. > :09:38.only got three fingers. You could also talk about him in voting the
:09:39. > :09:43.memory of Hitler when it comes to a European superstate. -- invoking.
:09:44. > :09:46.Are these things helpful to this debate? I think almost everything
:09:47. > :09:51.Boris has said is factually accurate. When he appeared before
:09:52. > :09:55.the Treasury Select Committee he was singularly accurate and well briefed
:09:56. > :09:57.and the things he was asked about turned out to be correct. In
:09:58. > :10:06.comparison with other people who have tried to create a superstate,
:10:07. > :10:12.you can go back to Charlemagne. What Boris said was factually true. Will
:10:13. > :10:18.you take something more to do with the economy? The committee's report
:10:19. > :10:24.today was unanimous, it was unanimous in saying that the Leave
:10:25. > :10:30.campaign's idea that the European Union sucks up ?350 million of
:10:31. > :10:34.British money per day was wrong and highly misleading. Those are the
:10:35. > :10:38.kind of figures Boris Johnson is putting about. It was a unanimous
:10:39. > :10:44.report. Did you go along with that report? Did you have your finger is
:10:45. > :10:49.on toes crossed? I don't want to be pedantic, but nobody said ?350
:10:50. > :10:54.million per day. A week, I'm sorry. That was inflammatory language!
:10:55. > :11:02.You're getting more inflammatory than the Brexiters! Not a precedent
:11:03. > :11:06.for the BBC! That figure is the grace figure which excludes the
:11:07. > :11:09.rebate. It's a bad figure, I have always said that, and I go along
:11:10. > :11:16.with the report. More importantly it said the Chancellor's thoughts to
:11:17. > :11:19.the Treasury report did not reflect the report. For the Chancellor of
:11:20. > :11:25.the X to get to say some thing not strictly true is much more worrying.
:11:26. > :11:32.-- of the exchequer to say something. Whichever way this vote
:11:33. > :11:39.goes, can the DNA of the cabinet remain the same, all will be
:11:40. > :11:49.Believers have to remain -- have to leave the Cabinet? -- will be
:11:50. > :11:53.Levers. I'm campaigning to leave because I believe in British
:11:54. > :11:56.democracy. If British people vote to remain, I must accept that and shut
:11:57. > :12:03.up. If on the other hand they vote to leave, the remain side have to do
:12:04. > :12:09.take it as well. It goes to the heart of great divisions in the
:12:10. > :12:13.Cabinet. Four weeks out from the referendum, the language, and I have
:12:14. > :12:16.to say you yourself through a quick stone at Michael Heseltine, the
:12:17. > :12:23.language of the campaign over the next few weeks will not become
:12:24. > :12:28.milder. Definitely not. But Michael Heseltine is big enough to cope with
:12:29. > :12:33.being called an old humbug. I doubt it will have disrupted his sleep for
:12:34. > :12:35.a second. In politics people make their arguments forcefully and
:12:36. > :12:40.passionately and throw the odd insult about. Afterwards we all
:12:41. > :12:42.settle down. Look at the Prime Minister and Nick Clegg in Downing
:12:43. > :12:49.Street garden they formed the coalition. I wonder if you agree
:12:50. > :12:53.with Chris Patten, that it's inconceivable that if vote Leave
:12:54. > :12:58.wins and we are out of the European Union, is it inconceivable to you
:12:59. > :13:02.that David Cameron would remain as leader, especially if he had to go
:13:03. > :13:07.cap in hand to make trade deals and so forth? Do you think if Britain
:13:08. > :13:13.votes to leave, David Cameron would leave number ten? I actively want
:13:14. > :13:16.the Prime Minister to stay in those circumstances, because the first
:13:17. > :13:20.thing we would have to do is improve our relationship with our European
:13:21. > :13:24.friends and neighbours and he has bent a lot of time talking to them
:13:25. > :13:28.and is in the best position to get the ball rolling. He will need tough
:13:29. > :13:31.negotiators beneath him, but I'm a great supporter of the Prime
:13:32. > :13:35.Minister in everything other than Europe. If we vote to leave, he will
:13:36. > :13:37.have to get on with getting us out and I will give him the support to
:13:38. > :13:40.do that. David Cameron made an announcement
:13:41. > :13:43.today at the end of the G7 summit in Japan which signals an upping
:13:44. > :13:46.of the Uk's engagement with Libya. The Royal Navy is preparing
:13:47. > :13:48.to deploy another warship to the Mediterranean to help
:13:49. > :13:50.tackle people smuggling Britain will also send a training
:13:51. > :13:55.team to the North African state. The Prime minister said
:13:56. > :13:57.it was in Britain's interests to support the new national unity
:13:58. > :14:00.government, to help it grow, to help it have the ability to
:14:01. > :14:03.control the country, but he refused to comment on reports that British
:14:04. > :14:06.special forces are already engaged in fighting so-called
:14:07. > :14:11.Islamic State in Libya. Last month, when reflecting
:14:12. > :14:13.on his presidency, President Obama said that his worst mistake
:14:14. > :14:16.was failing to plan for the day after the uprising in Libya,
:14:17. > :14:20.and also made a rare criticism of David Cameron for becoming
:14:21. > :14:26."distracted" after the intervention. Here's our diplomatic
:14:27. > :14:33.editor Mark Urban. A powerful warship like a type 45
:14:34. > :14:36.destroyer, seen here practising its drills,
:14:37. > :14:40.offers the chance to ramp up operations against
:14:41. > :14:44.the Islamic State group. It could also be used to cordon
:14:45. > :14:47.to British and Libyan vessels trying to intercept weapons
:14:48. > :14:52.and people smugglers. All these options were opened up
:14:53. > :14:56.by the Prime Minister's Britain should be helping,
:14:57. > :14:59.we are already part And we want that to move to the next
:15:00. > :15:07.stage of working with a Libyan government to stop boats leaving
:15:08. > :15:10.in the first place and, over time, As we have seen in the eastern
:15:11. > :15:16.Mediterranean, that's what works. But many a plan for relaunching
:15:17. > :15:19.Libya and its security forces Last month, Foreign Secretary Philip
:15:20. > :15:26.Hammond visited Tripoli and inspected the fledgling navy
:15:27. > :15:31.that Britain hopes to build up, so it can police
:15:32. > :15:34.migration and smuggling. But, we have been told,
:15:35. > :15:36.the Libyans didn't sign off on his proposals,
:15:37. > :15:39.and until Libyan and legal requirements are satisfied,
:15:40. > :15:42.a new international naval mission Anyone in the military who operates
:15:43. > :15:51.in a foreign country needs to have a legal status
:15:52. > :15:56.of forces, a legal agreement. That starts with the United Nations
:15:57. > :15:59.resolution. From that perspective,
:16:00. > :16:02.any military commander going out to Libya would want to have
:16:03. > :16:06.reassurances from the government So a comprehensive approach
:16:07. > :16:12.to tackling scenes like this, where a grossly overloaded people
:16:13. > :16:16.smuggler's boat capsized this week, remains elusive, while the British
:16:17. > :16:20.government would like Libyan coastguards to be able to stop this
:16:21. > :16:23.and take migrants back A threat to the whole project
:16:24. > :16:35.remains from Islamic militants An effort against them sparked
:16:36. > :16:39.accusations of mission creep. The complexity of the situation
:16:40. > :16:42.in Libya plays into a whole bunch of other questions about the kind
:16:43. > :16:45.of assistance that should be available to the new government
:16:46. > :16:47.of national accord, and the incredibly delicate
:16:48. > :16:50.political situation in Libya where there is now a real potential
:16:51. > :16:57.of Libya going back to civil war The Libyan affiliates
:16:58. > :17:03.of Islamic State now hold much of the coastline,
:17:04. > :17:07.with one pocket centred on Sirte Britain's role in the struggle
:17:08. > :17:13.against them includes intelligence gathering by HMS Enterprise,
:17:14. > :17:16.a survey vessel, and a secret spy planes flying from
:17:17. > :17:21.Akrotiri in Cyprus. Special forces, the Royal Marines
:17:22. > :17:26.SPS, have long been active on the coast, and were this week
:17:27. > :17:31.reported to be operating As for sending more,
:17:32. > :17:35.the Royal Fleet auxiliary in the region could support more
:17:36. > :17:38.special forces or training missions. And a frigate or destroyer
:17:39. > :17:42.destroyer also soon be sent. For the time being though
:17:43. > :17:45.much of the British Islamic State is one
:17:46. > :17:54.of the greatest threats not just to Britain,
:17:55. > :17:56.but to the world. And the way that it has been dealt
:17:57. > :18:00.with in Iraq and Syria has shown And I think taking that model
:18:01. > :18:13.and transposing it to Libya For the past five years,
:18:14. > :18:20.the Royal Navy and British special forces have been in and out of Libya
:18:21. > :18:23.and it has rarely been simple. Now there is the prospect
:18:24. > :18:26.of a more ambitious mission, and everyone from operational
:18:27. > :18:29.commanders to MOD lawyers will be These are some of the questions that
:18:30. > :18:52.have been drawn up by Cabinet Office Minister Matt Hancock,
:18:53. > :18:54.for people applying for jobs to try to stop discrimination
:18:55. > :18:56.against the poor. Because rather than social mobility,
:18:57. > :18:59.the UK suffers from social The questions will be drawn up
:19:00. > :19:05.as a national standard, applied to civil servant job
:19:06. > :19:07.applicants, and the government Perhaps the test could be applied
:19:08. > :19:12.to would be Cabinet Ministers. Half the Cabinet were privately
:19:13. > :19:16.educated, despite the fact only 7% Joining me to discuss this
:19:17. > :19:24.is solicitor AbiJit Pandya, and from the think tank,
:19:25. > :19:37.Class, the economist Faiza Shaheen. Good evening. In fact, the EU
:19:38. > :19:42.referendum campaign probably demonstrates this problem quite
:19:43. > :19:48.acutely. The four leaders of the campaign all went to Oxford. Three
:19:49. > :19:52.out of the four are privately educated. Surely that is an
:19:53. > :19:59.indication something has to change? I don't agree there is a problem. If
:20:00. > :20:02.you look at the facts, last year 517,000 people were privately
:20:03. > :20:06.educated out of a total of 8.2 million in this country. That saved
:20:07. > :20:13.the Department of education ?3.5 billion. That is ?3.5 billion which
:20:14. > :20:16.would go to poorer children, children whose parents cannot afford
:20:17. > :20:22.private education. To suggest private education somehow undermines
:20:23. > :20:33.opportunities in terms of the level of education poorer children get, is
:20:34. > :20:42.deceiving. These potential measures, whether or not the applicant was
:20:43. > :20:45.eligible for free school meals, the qualifications of their parents,
:20:46. > :20:50.professions, income or wealth, isn't the danger that what you do is you
:20:51. > :20:55.penalised the child for a decision made by the parents? No, is
:20:56. > :21:01.happening is we have 50% of the Cabinet who went to private school,
:21:02. > :21:04.we have 40% of the BAFTA winners went to private school, we have a
:21:05. > :21:08.situation in law and journalism were if we had that situation in
:21:09. > :21:13.football, we would not have David Beckham Morra Wayne Rooney today.
:21:14. > :21:17.The reasons that we have to think about these measures is because the
:21:18. > :21:27.situation so bad. There is no perfect solution. Does it feel like
:21:28. > :21:31.a blunt instrument? No. There are some better measures than others.
:21:32. > :21:34.For some young people from certain backgrounds, getting to the doorway
:21:35. > :21:39.you can even write that application has been much harder. It is not
:21:40. > :21:43.about positive discrimination, it is about levelling the playing field.
:21:44. > :21:50.Do you accept it is harder for children from state schools who
:21:51. > :21:53.perhaps do not have the support and all of the other things that go with
:21:54. > :21:56.the private education, the feeling of certainty, the feeling of
:21:57. > :22:00.confidence, the feeling that you can do something and nothing is barred
:22:01. > :22:06.to you that macro that that is not open to a lot of children and that
:22:07. > :22:13.is a bad inequality? I do not concede the point it is an
:22:14. > :22:16.inequality. No, I don't. If you have got there on merit because your
:22:17. > :22:27.parents have actually facilitated that, that is merit. It is not merit
:22:28. > :22:31.his money. That is the -- your view of merit. Tony Hibbert your
:22:32. > :22:35.situation. Your parents came to this country before you were born. They
:22:36. > :22:40.thought sending you to private school would give you a better
:22:41. > :22:43.chance in life? That is right. That is not the same as persecuting
:22:44. > :22:50.people for not going to private education. When you say inequality,
:22:51. > :22:56.that is a broad term with significantly nebulous meanings.
:22:57. > :22:59.Let's college life chances. There are plenty of people who are
:23:00. > :23:05.successful. It is how you measure success. The argument you are
:23:06. > :23:10.putting forward is a particular type of job and Society, a select one,
:23:11. > :23:14.and the vast majority of people do not become Cabinet ministers, is
:23:15. > :23:17.being infiltrated by people from a select background. That is not the
:23:18. > :23:23.grounds to change all opportunities across the board. It is across the
:23:24. > :23:30.board. Even in acting and creative sectors now. This is very costly. It
:23:31. > :23:32.is not just costly in terms of the influencers and the types of
:23:33. > :23:41.policies and decisions that are made by people that do not experience
:23:42. > :23:45.what most people in society do... I want to know if I am employing
:23:46. > :23:48.someone that they are motivated, by knowing they have gone to a state
:23:49. > :23:51.school and worked really hard, that is levelling the playing field.
:23:52. > :24:01.Right now they are discriminated against. What happens when you have
:24:02. > :24:05.a blind aptitude test? Is that in itself an indicator? Some of these
:24:06. > :24:11.blind aptitude tests have their own vices. They can be better. Take for
:24:12. > :24:16.instance the Oxford interviews. That bias is towards a certain type of
:24:17. > :24:22.confidence that you will have if you went to private school. Your parents
:24:23. > :24:24.decided to send you to a private school because they thought it was
:24:25. > :24:29.better for you than a state education? That was their specific
:24:30. > :24:34.view. Other parents may think differently. Other parents may want
:24:35. > :24:38.to spend their money taking their children to water ski rather than
:24:39. > :24:47.send them to private school. That is a decision for people. Not for the
:24:48. > :24:51.state. Do you agree that often the companies that do best have a very
:24:52. > :24:58.diverse group of people on the board, who bring different
:24:59. > :25:02.experiences and different attitudes? Why would you need to change the
:25:03. > :25:10.rules if that is already happening? My point at the start was that half
:25:11. > :25:17.a million people in this country save ?3.5 billion for people who
:25:18. > :25:20.cannot afford... It is important. If you want the resources for people
:25:21. > :25:25.who can't afford it, the best way to do that is get more people in
:25:26. > :25:29.private education. We cannot have people living segregated lives like
:25:30. > :25:33.that. When you have private school and private health care, they are
:25:34. > :25:36.less willing to put back in. That is why we see tax avoidance. It is a
:25:37. > :25:38.misleading number. Thank you. Each week during the EU referendum
:25:39. > :25:41.campaign, we want to offer you an oasis away from the facts,
:25:42. > :25:44.fibs, flannel and fears being lobbed We bring you the thoughts
:25:45. > :25:48.of influential determinedly not attached to one camp or the other,
:25:49. > :25:52.but who who have thought deeply Tonight it's the former editor
:25:53. > :25:57.of the Daily Telegraph and the official biographer
:25:58. > :26:15.of Margaret Thatcher, Charles Moore. I've always thought it
:26:16. > :26:17.mattered that we should have And that the people you vote
:26:18. > :26:24.for govern you, and that when you are fed up with voting
:26:25. > :26:27.for them, you vote them out. In the EU, there is no such thing
:26:28. > :26:31.as the Leader of the Opposition. There is permanent government
:26:32. > :26:35.by a governing class As the day approaches
:26:36. > :26:42.I feel more strongly, partly because I have a sense
:26:43. > :26:46.that the voters are being bullied. I mean, if we want the proof
:26:47. > :26:50.that there is a sort of global elite telling us what to do,
:26:51. > :26:52.we've been given it Every famous person in every other
:26:53. > :26:56.country in the world has been telling us how to vote,
:26:57. > :26:58.and every great big organisation which does well out of the system
:26:59. > :27:02.is telling us how to vote. And the whole point about this
:27:03. > :27:04.is it's us, not great big organisations and people
:27:05. > :27:07.who run other countries. When people say that
:27:08. > :27:11.they're thinking of - they can't decide but they're
:27:12. > :27:16.are thinking they might vote Remain, I tend to raise the point of,
:27:17. > :27:20.would you feel remorse? One of the things you should do
:27:21. > :27:23.when a big decision comes is to maximise the power
:27:24. > :27:25.of your decision. If you vote Remain, you will sink
:27:26. > :27:29.without trace between the waves of Obama and Jean-Claude Juncker
:27:30. > :27:32.and Hillary Clinton and the IMF and the World Bank
:27:33. > :27:37.and the rest of them. They will be vindicated
:27:38. > :27:41.in their fundamental complacency about the running
:27:42. > :27:45.of the Western world. And your decision will
:27:46. > :27:50.have been forgotten. I see some of the commentary
:27:51. > :27:52.and they keep saying to the Leave campaign,
:27:53. > :27:54."What are you going to do That is not the Leave
:27:55. > :27:57.campaign's job. They're not going to
:27:58. > :27:59.be the government. So there's a lot of uncertainties,
:28:00. > :28:03.not uncertainties that I think fundamentally about the future
:28:04. > :28:06.of this country, which I think is secure outside the EU,
:28:07. > :28:08.but about literally It worries me a bit but it does not
:28:09. > :28:19.worry me nearly enough No Such Thing as the News
:28:20. > :28:25.is on next, followed by Artsnight, in which Charlotte Church celebrates
:28:26. > :28:28.the joy of the human voice and meets singers who are trying
:28:29. > :28:31.to do things differently. But before we go, earlier,
:28:32. > :28:37.Barack Obama became the first US president to visit Hiroshima
:28:38. > :28:40.since his predecessor, Harry Truman, ordered the nuclear attack
:28:41. > :28:44.on the city that ended Mr Obama used his speech,
:28:45. > :29:01.perhaps audaciously, to draw some Good night.
:29:02. > :29:13.The world was forever changed here. But today, the children of this city
:29:14. > :29:22.will go through their day in peace. What a precious thing that is. It is
:29:23. > :29:34.worth protecting. And then extending to every child. That is the future
:29:35. > :29:44.we can choose. A future in which Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known as
:29:45. > :29:47.the dawn of atomic warfare, but as the start of our own moral
:29:48. > :30:12.awakening. Hello. Some fine weather this
:30:13. > :30:13.weekend but there will be a sprinkling of thunderstorms. Some