:00:07. > :00:08.Four decades after the Birmingham pub bombings, there are still
:00:09. > :00:16.So will the announcement of a new inquest into the 21
:00:17. > :00:24.deaths bring peace, truth and reconciliation at last?
:00:25. > :00:34...the most seismic day for all of us.
:00:35. > :00:39.We'll ask what the new inquest is for and whether it
:00:40. > :00:43.Also tonight, how to score points and control immigration.
:00:44. > :00:50.We'll look at the attractions of an Australian-style scheme.
:00:51. > :00:52.When does Photoshopping a photo become a lie,
:00:53. > :00:55.It's THE debate among photojournalists.
:00:56. > :00:59.Or should we call them visual storytellers?
:01:00. > :01:04.And the former Chief Rabbi tell us what he thinks of mutliculturalism.
:01:05. > :01:09.Multiculturalism did not promote tolerance or shared identity.
:01:10. > :01:12.It said, you go off and do your own thing.
:01:13. > :01:21.And that turns out to be very destructive.
:01:22. > :01:26.It was a ghastly piece of our recent history,
:01:27. > :01:29.but the events of November 1974 in Birmingham have not yet been
:01:30. > :01:35.A senior coroner has determined that the unfinished
:01:36. > :01:37.inquests into the two pub bombings should reopen.
:01:38. > :01:39.They can answer, possibly, some awkward questions
:01:40. > :01:43.about what happened, and what didn't.
:01:44. > :01:46.Like other historic cases that have been reinvestigated,
:01:47. > :01:50.this one goes back decades, and the actions of a police force
:01:51. > :01:54.Or, the non-actions I should say, because a major question
:01:55. > :01:57.is whether the West Midlands Police at the time failed to follow up
:01:58. > :01:59.warnings that terror would strike the city.
:02:00. > :02:02.The cases are very different - but comparisons are drawn.
:02:03. > :02:18.John Sweeney has spent the day in Birmingham.
:02:19. > :02:29.Birmingham City centre 2016 remains haunted by what happened here 41
:02:30. > :02:36.years ago. It was the worst IRA atrocity on British soil. Two bombs
:02:37. > :02:41.exploded in quick succession in two pubs, the Mulberry Bush and the
:02:42. > :02:49.Tavern in the Town. The death toll, 21 dead and more than 200 injured.
:02:50. > :02:54.The relatives of the dead have faced a 41 year struggle to get this far.
:02:55. > :03:06.An inquest will finally take place. Julie Hambleton has led the fight
:03:07. > :03:15.against the authorities. Today is... The most seismic day for all of us.
:03:16. > :03:24.I hope that our fathers, brothers, sisters, mothers are looking down
:03:25. > :03:33.and they are proud. She lost her 18-year-old sister. Tell me about
:03:34. > :03:41.Maxine. Maxine was full of life. She was intelligent, clever, mum always
:03:42. > :03:50.said not to put her on a pedestal, which is obviously very difficult to
:03:51. > :03:55.do because she was our big sister. This is a tragedy made far worse by
:03:56. > :04:00.the authorities. West Midlands Police arrested six Irish men the
:04:01. > :04:04.next day, after the bombings. But the police got it horribly wrong.
:04:05. > :04:10.The Birmingham six had been fitted up. The police told us from the
:04:11. > :04:15.start they knew we had not done it. They told us they did not care who
:04:16. > :04:20.had done it, they told us we were selected and they would frame us,
:04:21. > :04:25.just to keep the people in their happy. That is what it is all about.
:04:26. > :04:30.A quarter of a century on, Paddy Hill is still searching for the
:04:31. > :04:36.truth. He pulled my head back and said read that you little Irish
:04:37. > :04:41.bustard. These are the orders. The orders were to get convictions, to
:04:42. > :04:46.use any means they had to obtain them and not to worry because they
:04:47. > :04:50.were covered all the way to the top. They said, we did not pick you. He
:04:51. > :04:54.pointed to the ceiling and said you have been selected by members of the
:04:55. > :05:00.highest level of government. What about the real bombers, Sean Lee
:05:01. > :05:06.they should tell us what happened. That is not up to me to say. As far
:05:07. > :05:14.as the bombers are concerned, there was a statement made in 1982. I have
:05:15. > :05:19.it in writing. He stated then the people who had done the Birmingham
:05:20. > :05:23.pub bombings were walking about the streets of Dublin as free men. West
:05:24. > :05:29.Midlands Police argued in court and inquest would be neither lawful nor
:05:30. > :05:33.necessary. It was an argument they lost. So the coroner has ordered for
:05:34. > :05:39.the first time a full inquest into the Birmingham pub bombings. What
:05:40. > :05:44.the police did and maybe what the police did not do. Full suite of me
:05:45. > :05:50.in the light of day. Now this could turn out for West Midlands Police to
:05:51. > :05:55.be a real can of worms. How do you feel that your family has been
:05:56. > :06:00.treated by West Midlands Police? Disgracefully. The senior management
:06:01. > :06:06.of West Midlands Police have treated us with nothing but contempt. Give
:06:07. > :06:10.me some evidence that. In 2009 I wrote to the then Chief Constable
:06:11. > :06:16.asking him what he was prepared to do to look for the mass murderers of
:06:17. > :06:22.the biggest atrocity of mainland Britain's peacetime history of the
:06:23. > :06:28.20th century. And he did not have the courtesy to respond, he got his
:06:29. > :06:32.inspector to respond, basically telling me in paragraph he was too
:06:33. > :06:37.busy for the likes of us. Do you think it is possible the police are
:06:38. > :06:41.not keen on having an because any enquiry right make them look not
:06:42. > :06:46.very good? Yes I think they are afraid of their own history. Is that
:06:47. > :06:51.sufficient reason not to have an inquest? Absolutely not. What are we
:06:52. > :06:57.paying them for? Birmingham today is a different place from more than
:06:58. > :07:01.four decades ago. The city and country faces a new terrorist threat
:07:02. > :07:07.from a different quarter. But how prepared are we for the Terra
:07:08. > :07:08.perhaps to come if we are not ready to learn lessons from the mistakes
:07:09. > :07:12.of the past? Well joining me now in the studio
:07:13. > :07:18.are Sean O'Callaghan, a Provisional Former Met Police
:07:19. > :07:21.Commander Bob Milton. And from Birmingham,
:07:22. > :07:26.we're joined by Julie Hambleton, whose sister Maxine was among the 21
:07:27. > :07:40.victims in the bombings. Julie, what would success looks like
:07:41. > :07:49.in this new inquest? What are you hoping will be achieved?
:07:50. > :07:53.Fundamentally we want the truth. Because that is what we have been
:07:54. > :07:59.fighting for, that is what has been hidden from us for the last four
:08:00. > :08:03.decades and that is what the families want. Is that the truth
:08:04. > :08:11.about who did it, or the truth about the behaviour of the police? Both
:08:12. > :08:15.counts. Who did it and what the police did or did not do. If they
:08:16. > :08:22.did not do the job they were meant to do, they need to put their hands
:08:23. > :08:27.up and admit to it. We believe that is the case, the evidence is there,
:08:28. > :08:31.so they might as well just come forward and be truthful, be
:08:32. > :08:39.transparent. Let me talk about both sides of that to my guests. Do you
:08:40. > :08:43.think an inquest will learn anything, reveal anything new about
:08:44. > :08:49.the perpetrators, about what they meant to do, what elements went
:08:50. > :08:55.wrong? I don't think we will learn anything about who did it because we
:08:56. > :08:59.know who did it. It may be the case or information will come out about
:09:00. > :09:05.either mismanagement, failings by the West Midlands Police, but I do
:09:06. > :09:10.not believe we will learn any more than we know about who did it
:09:11. > :09:14.because we know who did it. Do you think there is any chance they might
:09:15. > :09:22.come out and say, look, we did it. Not all of them are actually alive,
:09:23. > :09:26.the alleged perpetrators. It took the Provisional IRA in 11 years to
:09:27. > :09:31.admit they carried out the Birmingham bombings. They denied it
:09:32. > :09:35.for 11 years. People like Chris Mullins were eventually dragged to
:09:36. > :09:42.admit it. The people who know... There were over 40 bomb explosions
:09:43. > :09:48.before the Birmingham bombs in the West Midlands, a very active group
:09:49. > :09:53.in the area. People who know what happened the leadership of the
:09:54. > :09:56.Provisional IRA, some in public office today, they know what
:09:57. > :09:59.happened and perhaps they should be asked to come forward because they
:10:00. > :10:04.held enquiries, perhaps they should be asked to tell the family is
:10:05. > :10:11.exactly what happened and they know better than anybody else. Julie, if
:10:12. > :10:17.it was the case the people who did it could be induced to come and talk
:10:18. > :10:21.about what had happened, on condition they were not arrested,
:10:22. > :10:26.charged or convicted, would you accept that, that it became a truth
:10:27. > :10:33.commission rather than an inquest, or a court into the perpetrators?
:10:34. > :10:41.Absolutely not because what we would be effectively agreeing to is a get
:10:42. > :10:47.out of jail free card which is pretty much what Tony Blair gave
:10:48. > :10:52.them in the on the run letters. That is not what from my family's
:10:53. > :10:59.perspective we would agree to. These men, well, these specimens, have
:11:00. > :11:03.killed with impunity, without any fear of retribution. What future is
:11:04. > :11:09.there for future generations if we do not fight the truth, justice and
:11:10. > :11:14.accountability? Because all we are doing is giving a green light to
:11:15. > :11:19.future terrorist organisations to come to our cities and kill without
:11:20. > :11:23.fear of retribution. The justice is more important to you than the
:11:24. > :11:27.truth? Because maybe you will not get the truth because if they think
:11:28. > :11:33.they will be arrested they will not talk about it, so the two may be in
:11:34. > :11:40.conflict. Everything is in conflict here. The conflict is we have laws
:11:41. > :11:45.in England and the UK that nobody appears to want to implement. We
:11:46. > :11:51.also belong to the European Union, who has the European arrest warrant.
:11:52. > :11:56.Nobody wants to implement map. The fact that they claim, everyone
:11:57. > :12:02.claims they know who did it, yet no one is prepared to go over and
:12:03. > :12:06.extradite them to this country. You had this morning Kieron Conway
:12:07. > :12:12.admitting he planted bombs, Radio 4, for goodness sake, where on earth
:12:13. > :12:15.could you admit radio you planted bombs and could have killed people
:12:16. > :12:24.from those bombs and get up and walk away free? I heard that exchange on
:12:25. > :12:28.the radio, I understand. I will move on to the police side. We have
:12:29. > :12:34.talked about the IRA side. Do you think the police will learn anything
:12:35. > :12:38.from an inquest? What Julie Hambleton has said is absolutely
:12:39. > :12:43.right. These people need to be brought to justice and if there is
:12:44. > :12:47.any chance, any evidence that will bring these people to justice...
:12:48. > :12:51.John says people know who they are, it is about time people come forward
:12:52. > :12:58.to bring these people to justice and she is right. Is that realistic? I
:12:59. > :13:03.think the reality is that two of the people directly responsible for
:13:04. > :13:09.planting the Birmingham bombs are dead. One of the people who ordered
:13:10. > :13:14.the bombs is dead. Two are still alive. The Provisional IRA carried
:13:15. > :13:20.out enquiries into what happened in Birmingham. More than anybody else,
:13:21. > :13:25.people in the Provisional IRA, senior in the movement at the time,
:13:26. > :13:32.and are still senior Republicans today, know precisely what happened.
:13:33. > :13:37.Where I lose the plot on this is that I agree completely, we tend to
:13:38. > :13:41.lose sight of first principles. There were almost 50 bombs leading
:13:42. > :13:45.up to the Birmingham bombings. The Provisional IRA carried out that
:13:46. > :13:49.campaign of murder and destruction in the West Midlands. They are
:13:50. > :13:55.responsible. The leadership carried it out. I want to get onto the
:13:56. > :14:03.police side. Will the police learn anything into what they were doing?
:14:04. > :14:08.The West Midlands Police, if what Julie Hambleton is saying is true,
:14:09. > :14:13.they need to understand how to deal with victim is. In the present?
:14:14. > :14:19.Absolutely. That is not the purpose of the inquest. I believe that the
:14:20. > :14:23.West Midlands Police should be open, transparent about what happened on
:14:24. > :14:28.that night. The standards we apply now are different to the standards
:14:29. > :14:33.then. That is not an excuse, it is different. At the time we were
:14:34. > :14:35.struggling to deal with the sophisticated terrorist
:14:36. > :14:40.organisation, but there is no reason why we should not be open and honest
:14:41. > :14:41.about what happened about the police response, and the intelligence
:14:42. > :14:49.available. There are a sinister theories around
:14:50. > :14:53.about moles in MI5 who would have known what was happening, do you
:14:54. > :14:58.think there is any chance that this inquest would an cover or expose
:14:59. > :15:06.something as, a scandal on the scale of that? I would be surprised. I
:15:07. > :15:11.suspect what we are dealing with here is incompetence, systems
:15:12. > :15:14.breaking down, not sharing intelligence. Because simply at the
:15:15. > :15:19.time we were struggling to deal with the problem. I wish we could spend
:15:20. > :15:21.longer on this but thank you all, particularly you Julie, I know you
:15:22. > :15:23.have had a long day. And in Australia, they can also win
:15:24. > :15:27.you the right to reside It's called a points-based
:15:28. > :15:29.immigration system, and it's been dominating
:15:30. > :15:31.the referendum campaign today. Has anyone been scoring
:15:32. > :15:33.points in the campaign? If we have an Australian
:15:34. > :15:41.points-based system, then we can You would get a race
:15:42. > :15:49.to the bottom and that's exactly We can do it, June 23rd will be
:15:50. > :15:56.Independence Day for Britain. Well, it's not up to
:15:57. > :16:11.the Leave campaign to adopt a new immigration policy -
:16:12. > :16:13.but the suggestion that a points-based system
:16:14. > :16:15.would be our best option should I'm joined by John Longworth,
:16:16. > :16:19.the former Director General of the British Chambers of Commerce
:16:20. > :16:22.and now the chairman And by Kavita Oberoi,
:16:23. > :16:36.the Remain-supporting founder Thank you both for coming in, to be
:16:37. > :16:40.cleared John, you are in the business guy at Vote Leave, you are
:16:41. > :16:48.happy with the line of coming out of the single market so we don't have
:16:49. > :16:52.do have free movement? Absolutely. A lot of businesses think it's the
:16:53. > :17:00.worst idea. It's nonsense, the single market is a Mirage. We can
:17:01. > :17:04.trade perfectly well without it. The points -based system, we have that
:17:05. > :17:09.her non-EU immigration at the moment don't we? Is it working? It is a
:17:10. > :17:13.sort of points -based system, it might not be rigorous enough. The
:17:14. > :17:17.whole thing about migration is not just a business issue, it is a
:17:18. > :17:21.social issue and we have the worst possible of all worlds at the moment
:17:22. > :17:26.because we have a system that allows and limited supply of cheap labour
:17:27. > :17:30.from the EU and is creating a low-wage, low skill, low
:17:31. > :17:32.productivity economy and at the same time we are unable to actually
:17:33. > :17:40.access the skills we need from outside the EU where all the IT
:17:41. > :17:46.engineers people are. It's the worst thing for business. It's a disaster
:17:47. > :17:51.for working people. I am asked in that if you are going to control
:17:52. > :17:57.immigration as Vote Leave want, you use points to do that. There is a
:17:58. > :18:01.type of points -based system for external EU migration but the key
:18:02. > :18:06.thing is you need a system based on economic need, flexible according to
:18:07. > :18:09.economic need and is applied rigorous way. Kavita do you have
:18:10. > :18:17.experience of trying to bring in foreign -based workers? Not bringing
:18:18. > :18:22.migrants in, not applying the system, but I disagree with what you
:18:23. > :18:26.are saying in terms of the economy. If we look at the points -based
:18:27. > :18:31.system it doesn't take ability and attitude into consideration at all.
:18:32. > :18:37.It can take attitude because how do you, you're not going to give them a
:18:38. > :18:40.job interview and score them. Absolutely, my father was a migrant
:18:41. > :18:45.who came over here in the 60s. On the points -based system he would
:18:46. > :18:49.take age but not education or skills. He created a
:18:50. > :18:55.third-generation business, successfully. You can look at a
:18:56. > :19:00.better system which looks at skills and qualifications, I appreciate the
:19:01. > :19:06.attitude point but you can create a system which takes other things into
:19:07. > :19:11.account. It is difficult, if you look at a report in 2014 on the
:19:12. > :19:19.whole points -based system, the impact on GDP, it's not really
:19:20. > :19:22.there. Andrew Crean of migration watch who is not fond of high levels
:19:23. > :19:26.of uncontrolled migration I think it's fair to say, is not a fan of
:19:27. > :19:30.the Australian system because he thinks you need to apply some
:19:31. > :19:36.judgment as to who you will let in and a points -based system, I think
:19:37. > :19:42.I am putting it right, has a spurious precision to it, that a
:19:43. > :19:45.computer can get the right answer. A points -based system would require
:19:46. > :19:50.somebody to have a job before coming in, so you are combining the best of
:19:51. > :19:54.both worlds. At the moment we have no incentive for employers to train
:19:55. > :19:59.people, we have a national scandal of almost half a million and played
:20:00. > :20:09.under 25s which is really bad news because employers are not training
:20:10. > :20:14.people -- unemployed under 25s. It's been a disaster for working people
:20:15. > :20:21.because in this cycle wages should be rising and they are not. Kavita
:20:22. > :20:25.that is the criticism, that you don't have to train British people
:20:26. > :20:28.to do the jobs you need filled because you just import them?
:20:29. > :20:32.Absolutely not because apprenticeships are at the highest
:20:33. > :20:36.they have ever been. As employers we do look at, I don't look at if
:20:37. > :20:42.someone is a migrant or if they are from here, what I am looking at is
:20:43. > :20:47.the best person for the job. That is what employers are interested in. I
:20:48. > :20:51.can understand you will have some professions where you need extra
:20:52. > :20:56.people, construction or bust riding whatever, IT. But it almost seems as
:20:57. > :21:02.if we are importing workers for everything, as if we are making the
:21:03. > :21:07.country bigger brother than filling the bottlenecks. Is what you are
:21:08. > :21:11.describing strategic immigration or is it just making the country bigger
:21:12. > :21:17.because we take skilled workers, unskilled workers, construction
:21:18. > :21:21.workers, we take...? I don't know if we do, from my perspective as an
:21:22. > :21:25.employer if we put out a job advert we want the best people to apply and
:21:26. > :21:32.we will screen and look at that will stop sometimes we don't get that,
:21:33. > :21:36.for some jobs it will be the migrants that are applying for those
:21:37. > :21:41.jobs. Nobody is taking those jobs away from anyone else, those jobs
:21:42. > :21:47.are there and it's an open market for everyone to apply. But some
:21:48. > :21:50.economies are absolutely, some industries, the farmers in Norfolk
:21:51. > :21:54.for example, the businesses would collapse tomorrow if we do and have
:21:55. > :22:01.migrants. Health care and the key sector. We need to leave it there,
:22:02. > :22:03.thank you. Let's take stock of the campaigning mood today.
:22:04. > :22:06.Nick Watt is here to take the temperature of the campaigns.
:22:07. > :22:14.It's been a week of shifting morale, let's start with the Leave campaign.
:22:15. > :22:18.It's clear Vote Leave are making the running at the moment because we are
:22:19. > :22:22.talking about what John's campaign is talking about but officially
:22:23. > :22:28.Remain are confident because they say the most fundamental issue is
:22:29. > :22:31.the economy which is with them. We have an appearance by Alistair
:22:32. > :22:35.Darling and George Osborne ended early Telegraph saying the economic
:22:36. > :22:39.plans of the Leave campaign are unworkable and uncosted. But I am
:22:40. > :22:43.picking up nerves on the Remain side, I was talking to a well-placed
:22:44. > :22:48.minister today who said he is nervous about the sour atmosphere on
:22:49. > :22:51.immigration and highlighting two particular concerns, number one that
:22:52. > :22:54.the Prime Minister has a day job, he was at the Jutland ceremony
:22:55. > :22:59.yesterday and was not able to respond as Boris Johnson and Michael
:23:00. > :23:05.Gove got going. Concern number two is the Labour campaign, Alan Johnson
:23:06. > :23:09.is the head of that, he is nice and affable but not very much a
:23:10. > :23:13.politician of today. Jeremy Corbyn will try to show tomorrow when he
:23:14. > :23:20.comes back from his break that he is engaged in what the European Union
:23:21. > :23:23.has done for workers' rights. What about the Leave campaign? They are a
:23:24. > :23:27.bit more buoyant because there was a poll in The Guardian which was
:23:28. > :23:31.better news for them. They are looking at drilling down into the
:23:32. > :23:35.figures, one they are looking at was a Twitter message by the academic
:23:36. > :23:39.Matthew Goodwin who highlighted the comparison between the Scottish
:23:40. > :23:43.referendum and this referendum, bad news for the SNP in that referendum
:23:44. > :23:48.is that they were always behind on voters thinking will you be worse
:23:49. > :23:51.off in an independent Scotland. That same question in this referendum,
:23:52. > :23:55.only a fifth of voters are according to YouGov believe that they would be
:23:56. > :24:01.worse off if we left the EU and almost half say it would not make
:24:02. > :24:05.any difference. They are also interested in the issue of security,
:24:06. > :24:09.Vote Leave was concerned they could be vulnerable if we leave the EU,
:24:10. > :24:14.more vulnerable to a terrorist attack but that YouGov poll shows
:24:15. > :24:19.that as many as half of the voters believe that leaving the EU would
:24:20. > :24:22.make no difference in that area. If we had polling guru seat they would
:24:23. > :24:29.be saying that the fundamentals have not moved, it is even Stevens with
:24:30. > :24:31.Remain perhaps even a little ahead. Thank you.
:24:32. > :24:34.Is it a cause for celebration that the first aid for three
:24:35. > :24:37.and a half years has today gone into the besieged Damascus
:24:38. > :24:44.But, while that's help for about 4,000 people,
:24:45. > :24:46.there's nothing to celebrate in the fact that nearly
:24:47. > :24:49.most trapped by the Syrian government.
:24:50. > :24:56.Secunder Kermani has been speaking to people in Darayya,
:24:57. > :25:04.and to residents of a town that has not yet received help.
:25:05. > :25:07.We don't even know how it all started.
:25:08. > :25:10.The people in Darayya have been trying to capture the world's
:25:11. > :25:18.The suburb of Darayya was one of the first places to rise up
:25:19. > :25:21.been been under siege from his forces for
:25:22. > :25:29.almost four years and until today, in that time, no aid has been
:25:30. > :25:32.Activists sent us this video of a family eating
:25:33. > :25:34.yesterday, what has become for many their only daily meal.
:25:35. > :26:12.Darayya is one of a number of areas in Syria held by opposition forces
:26:13. > :26:18.but being besieged by the President Assad regime. It is not only his
:26:19. > :26:23.forces who used the tactic, two town 's head by regime loyalists are
:26:24. > :26:30.being besieged by Islamist rebels in Idlib. But some aid has been able to
:26:31. > :26:35.reach these areas. The world food programme has carried out air drops,
:26:36. > :26:39.it's not considered particularly efficient but it's a last resort.
:26:40. > :26:45.But there have been no air drops and virtually no aid to the majority of
:26:46. > :26:51.pounds besieged by President Assad. The group of countries working the
:26:52. > :26:55.Syria crisis had set today as the deadline to allow access to the
:26:56. > :26:59.siege to towns and if it was not they would begin air drops. Today in
:27:00. > :27:04.what the Foreign Secretary called a cynical move the regime allowed
:27:05. > :27:11.limited aid into Darayya and another area. Other besieged areas are still
:27:12. > :27:12.calling for air drops. Like Homs where you can hear the bombs
:27:13. > :27:55.dropped. Besieged areas hit the headlines in
:27:56. > :27:59.January with images of starving children in opposition held Medea
:28:00. > :28:03.where dozens died before the regime allowed an aid convoy through. Some
:28:04. > :28:08.say it is a deliberate ploy by President Assad to create and then
:28:09. > :28:12.partially resolve crises. The regime likes to use this as a tactic to
:28:13. > :28:18.divert discussion away from political tracts in Geneva and to
:28:19. > :28:21.replace it more with you manage it questions. Particularly about
:28:22. > :28:30.negotiations over humanitarian access. In this video from Darayya
:28:31. > :28:35.children make a cake out of mud. The ambassador today described the aid
:28:36. > :28:38.is too little too late. With almost 600,000 people living in areas
:28:39. > :28:42.besieged mainly by the regime the International committee will meet on
:28:43. > :28:47.Friday to discuss the possibility of air drops. Secunder Kermani there.
:28:48. > :28:49.You may not have heard of the Templeton Prize -
:28:50. > :28:51.it's sometimes characterised as a kind of Nobel for religion.
:28:52. > :28:54.The prize honours a living person who has made "an exceptional
:28:55. > :28:56.contribution to affirming life's spiritual dimension".
:28:57. > :29:00.Given that spiritual objective, the prize is remarkably
:29:01. > :29:06.materialistic in the sense that it pays out serious money to the winner
:29:07. > :29:10.This year, that jackpot was won by the former Chief Rabbi,
:29:11. > :29:13.Lord Jonathan Sacks, who has for decades been writing
:29:14. > :29:19.and talking on themes of faith, tolerance and peace.
:29:20. > :29:23.I sat down with Lord Sacks, on the day he received his prize.
:29:24. > :29:26.His latest book is about religion and conflict - so I thought I'd
:29:27. > :29:35.Not always, not inevitably, and every substitute
:29:36. > :29:38.for religion leads to war, so the cause of war is not religion,
:29:39. > :29:47.It's that nasty little thing called human impulse and anger.
:29:48. > :29:51.So religion doesn't lead to violence, but it can very much
:29:52. > :29:53.intensify it, or provide a justification.
:29:54. > :30:00.I think no one expected this in the 21st century.
:30:01. > :30:03.It is interesting you're making this point now because a lot
:30:04. > :30:06.of people are saying the era in which we are living is one
:30:07. > :30:11.in which there is a clamour, or a need, for people to find
:30:12. > :30:13.identity - identity politics, nationalist politics
:30:14. > :30:25.People feeling like their voice needs to be heard, they need
:30:26. > :30:28.to shout more loudly because their tribe is not getting
:30:29. > :30:37.We lost that in the welter of multiculturalism and said,
:30:38. > :30:41.it is very impolite to have a national identity.
:30:42. > :30:45.This gets to the heart of a very awkward dilemma about whether we all
:30:46. > :30:47.should have a shared identity, or whether we should encourage
:30:48. > :30:55.people to have their own identity in a multicultural England or Britain.
:30:56. > :30:57.The real difference is this, if there is collective
:30:58. > :31:03.If you have multiculturalism, society is a hotel.
:31:04. > :31:08.It was supposed to lead to greater tolerance.
:31:09. > :31:10.What it led to was what Trevor Phillips called
:31:11. > :31:18.Multiculturalism did not promote tolerance or shared identity.
:31:19. > :31:24.It said, you go off and do your own thing.
:31:25. > :31:27.And that turns out to be very destructive.
:31:28. > :31:30.Well, that brings us to a very timely topic, which
:31:31. > :31:34.Many of the British Jewish community have said they have
:31:35. > :31:39.noticed a step-change in the level of hostility.
:31:40. > :31:43.Have you noticed that, does that worry you?
:31:44. > :31:46.Well, I noticed it because our youngest daughter encountered this
:31:47. > :31:58.I found this deeply shocking, because I have not,
:31:59. > :32:00.had not and have not, experienced a single episode
:32:01. > :32:06.I am not exactly low-profile - Chief Rabbis are fairly known to be
:32:07. > :32:15.Of course it is always in a new form, because anti-Semitism
:32:16. > :32:20.is so socially unacceptable that it can only survive
:32:21. > :32:22.the way a virus survives, which is by mutating.
:32:23. > :32:29.In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated for their religion.
:32:30. > :32:33.In the 19th and 20th centuries, you were not allowed to hate anyone
:32:34. > :32:35.for their religion, because this is post-Enlightenment Europe.
:32:36. > :32:41.Today, you can't hate anyone for their race,
:32:42. > :32:44.so you hate them for their nation state, and that is why anti-Zionism
:32:45. > :32:53.This gets to the heart of a difficulty some people
:32:54. > :32:56.are feeling about this whole chat about anti-Semitism because some
:32:57. > :32:58.people feel incredibly strongly about the state of Israel and things
:32:59. > :33:00.they don't like about it, particularly
:33:01. > :33:11.They feel the charge of anti-Semitism is effectively
:33:12. > :33:14.being used to kind of put a moral question over their
:33:15. > :33:20.A group of school kids asked me that question a week ago.
:33:21. > :33:23.I said, tell me, hands up which of you believes
:33:24. > :33:26.it is legitimate to criticise the British Government?
:33:27. > :33:34.I said, which of you believes that Britain has no right to exist?
:33:35. > :33:40.I said, now you know the difference between criticism of the state
:33:41. > :33:48.How surprised have you been about the problems the Labour Party has
:33:49. > :33:50.been through with Ken Livingstone and charges of anti-Semitism?
:33:51. > :33:56.How serious do you think a problem the party has?
:33:57. > :33:59.I think the problem is so simple, just practice zero tolerance the way
:34:00. > :34:01.you would to any other kind of unacceptable prejudice.
:34:02. > :34:05.Just do it and the problem is solved.
:34:06. > :34:07.Lord Sacks, Jonathan Sacks, thank you very much.
:34:08. > :34:16.The television industry had its issues with fakery in years past.
:34:17. > :34:18.The sexing up of material with misleading edits
:34:19. > :34:22.The issues at stake were rather less black and white than many people
:34:23. > :34:24.realised because every day we inevitably fake things
:34:25. > :34:27.in television - usually innocuous things, like getting someone to walk
:34:28. > :34:30.up a corridor a few times so we can get a variety of shots of them.
:34:31. > :34:33.If we didn't do that, we wouldn't get you a programme.
:34:34. > :34:37.But now photography is in the midst of its own debate about
:34:38. > :34:42.One of the most celebrated photojournalists, Steve McCurry, has
:34:43. > :34:44.been exposed as engaging in some digital enhancements.
:34:45. > :34:59.as a photojournalist for eight years, but now works as an artist
:35:00. > :35:06.This photograph is about the Zambian space programme.
:35:07. > :35:09.Nicola Kurtz who won the Amnesty International Media Award
:35:10. > :35:27.This is from her photo essay Texas dust bowl. Good evening. The Zambian
:35:28. > :35:32.space programme, is this a piece of fantasy, fiction, journalism?
:35:33. > :35:38.Explain what it is. It is an anecdote in African history that you
:35:39. > :35:41.do not make it to the front page of a newspaper in 1964 but something
:35:42. > :35:46.that really happened and I re-enacted the whole thing to
:35:47. > :35:50.explain it. I recreated it. No mum would have been confused you have
:35:51. > :35:56.not pictured the real thing or do you think they might have been? No,
:35:57. > :36:02.because I was not publishing it in any newspaper. I made a photo book
:36:03. > :36:06.and I have been showing missing galleries and magazines. Nicola, how
:36:07. > :36:11.far do you go in doing anything other than showing the photograph
:36:12. > :36:16.your camera takes? When you put it through Photoshop, which if you do
:36:17. > :36:19.digital photography every photographer does, you might tweak
:36:20. > :36:24.the colour balance because that is altered. Also you might sharpen the
:36:25. > :36:30.image slightly and you might crop it and that is it. Why does that define
:36:31. > :36:35.the boundary of what you are allowed to do? You might remove the child
:36:36. > :36:38.with the gun if you want to show the people are peace-loving and crop
:36:39. > :36:44.that out, so that is a bit phoney, is it? Yes, but you can also choose
:36:45. > :36:53.not to take a photograph of the child with a gun. Any photography in
:36:54. > :36:57.the field is an editorial process. Pushing the shutter is your
:36:58. > :37:01.viewpoint, focusing on certain elements within that scenario,
:37:02. > :37:08.removing the elements you don't wish to show in that, which often is used
:37:09. > :37:14.to clarify the image. And then you have it on film or on memory stick.
:37:15. > :37:17.You would not remove a rather distracting and ugly fire hydrant in
:37:18. > :37:21.the bottom of the photo that slightly spoiled the composition?
:37:22. > :37:26.No, because then to be the photograph has not worked. You move,
:37:27. > :37:33.or you stand above the fire hydrant and then you don't have a fire
:37:34. > :37:37.hydrant. You call yourself a visual storyteller, you are not a
:37:38. > :37:43.photojournalist any more?. Any more. I used to be. When you were, would
:37:44. > :37:49.you have removed a fire hydrant if it spoiled the photo? No, I would
:37:50. > :37:53.never have done that. No, if you have time enough you move and take
:37:54. > :38:00.the picture where the fire hydrant is not any more or you do not select
:38:01. > :38:05.the picture in the end. What you refer to cropping and colour
:38:06. > :38:09.enhancement, is what is acceptable for photojournalism, all the rest is
:38:10. > :38:17.acceptable but not to be published and shared as a piece of truth, red
:38:18. > :38:22.lines you cannot cross. Did you leave photojournalism and become a
:38:23. > :38:28.visual storyteller because you found it constraining, the rules of
:38:29. > :38:32.photojournalism? Yes, totally. I have nothing against photojournalism
:38:33. > :38:38.but it is not giving a complete picture of the world we live in and
:38:39. > :38:43.we need to use other tools like fiction, re-creation, imagination to
:38:44. > :38:47.explain complicated world we live in stock we cannot just explain what is
:38:48. > :38:52.happening right now in front of the camera we need analysis and opinion
:38:53. > :38:59.to get the whole picture of it. Do you think visual storytelling is a
:39:00. > :39:05.good art? It is if it is stated as being such. There is a famous
:39:06. > :39:10.photographer called Sally Mann who took phenomenal images initially
:39:11. > :39:15.people thought were photojournalism. They were not, they were set up with
:39:16. > :39:19.her family and she always said they were, it was when you came to them
:39:20. > :39:22.as an unwitting viewer you can misinterpret that. The biggest
:39:23. > :39:31.problem with this Steve McCurry thing is that I watched a lot of his
:39:32. > :39:35.statements about his work after he shot the last ever role of
:39:36. > :39:41.Kodachrome. This is how much of a God he is in the colour photographic
:39:42. > :39:45.repertoire, particularly in America. The problem is he said about the
:39:46. > :39:50.subjects he photographed, how you should treat them as equals, say
:39:51. > :39:56.hello to them, explain what you are doing, treat them with true respect,
:39:57. > :40:02.and yet with this incidence in his blog, he does not seem to have
:40:03. > :40:05.treated the viewer, consumer office work, with as much respect. I think
:40:06. > :40:09.he said he regrets about not being clearer. He has now said he is not
:40:10. > :40:15.going to do it at all. It is a mishap will stop it has brought a
:40:16. > :40:20.huge amount of discussion into what is real and what isn't, which is
:40:21. > :40:25.good for photography, but it does learn the lines between fact and
:40:26. > :40:28.fiction. Bloodlines, always going to be some of those. Thanks.
:40:29. > :40:32.I'll be back tomorrow, but we leave you with a rare foray
:40:33. > :40:33.into wildlife documentary, without any fakery.
:40:34. > :40:36.You might have seen that seven new species of spider
:40:37. > :40:38.have been discovered, as they usually are, in Australia.
:40:39. > :40:45.Arachnophobes fear not, they're called peacock spiders,
:40:46. > :40:48.they're only a couple of millimetres long and - apparently -
:40:49. > :41:38.# A little less conversation, a little more action.
:41:39. > :41:40.Hello, so far this week the best in the