:00:00. > :00:08.Tonight exclusively on Newsnight a senior Labour figure
:00:09. > :00:12.tells us he fears Remain is going to lose the referendum.
:00:13. > :00:15.I think here we are, two weeks away from the very real
:00:16. > :00:17.prospect that Britain will vote for isolation.
:00:18. > :00:25.We report on serious concerns in Labour that the party's elite
:00:26. > :00:28.is failing to engage with the issues that matter to grass
:00:29. > :00:32.And I'll be talking to the Shadow Work
:00:33. > :00:44.She was very sweet, she was listing to me, but I don't think I was
:00:45. > :00:47.making any progress. -- listening. We've sent two campaigners
:00:48. > :00:51.for Vote Leave and Remain The sister of the Eritrean man
:00:52. > :00:55.extradited to face human trafficking charges after a major
:00:56. > :00:56.British security operation insists her brother is a victim
:00:57. > :01:01.of mistaken identity. He's not a human trafficker, I'm
:01:02. > :01:08.sure of that. He is my brother. A damning report on the UVF pub
:01:09. > :01:11.massacre in Loughinisland 22 years ago finds there was significant
:01:12. > :01:13.collusion between the killers We speak to the solicitor
:01:14. > :01:21.for the justice campaign. The official White House
:01:22. > :01:24.photographer who has been with the President every step
:01:25. > :01:32.of the way. I said to myself, if he ever became
:01:33. > :01:39.president, this is a picture you will never see again.
:01:40. > :01:45.Newsnight tonight reveals the deep anxieties of a senior Labour figure
:01:46. > :01:51.that the party is not getting the message out to labour
:01:52. > :01:58.voters to back Remain, and indeed that the message
:01:59. > :02:01.being sent down from the Labour elite is out of tune
:02:02. > :02:05.The former shadow home secretary Andy Burnham has told this programme
:02:06. > :02:07.that he has serious concerns that the country will vote to leave
:02:08. > :02:11.the EU, and that if that happened it could trigger a domino effect
:02:12. > :02:13.which could lead to the breakup of the United Kingdom.
:02:14. > :02:18.Here's our political editor Nick Watt.
:02:19. > :02:25.Blink and you probably missed it, the once mighty Labour machine has
:02:26. > :02:30.been somewhat underpowered during this historic moment in modern
:02:31. > :02:35.British politics. Nothing can go wrong. You would have to be on a
:02:36. > :02:39.very long holiday to a distant galaxy to Misty blue on blue
:02:40. > :02:46.shelling that is shaping perceptions of this referendum. -- to miss. Are
:02:47. > :02:49.we missing the rupture between red and red, the hidden story of this
:02:50. > :02:54.campaign which might do more to decide the result? The working man
:02:55. > :02:58.is not going to prosper when we come out, I don't think, because our
:02:59. > :03:05.largest market will turn our back. We seem to be a country that is open
:03:06. > :03:10.to anything, we have not got our own identity any more. Andy Burnham
:03:11. > :03:15.received a mixed reception from voters on the streets of Manchester,
:03:16. > :03:18.as once natural Labour supporters say they have abandoned the party in
:03:19. > :03:22.favour of Ukip and now is about getting out of the European Union.
:03:23. > :03:26.These encounters illustrated one of his main themes, there is a
:03:27. > :03:32.disconnect between the elite and grassroots voters. And that explains
:03:33. > :03:37.why this referendum is now so close. We've definitely been too much
:03:38. > :03:43.Hampstead and not enough Hull in recent times, and we need to change
:03:44. > :03:50.that. Are you concerned that the referendum could be slipping away?
:03:51. > :03:55.Yes. Here we are, two weeks away from the very real prospect that
:03:56. > :04:00.Britain will vote for isolation, it would be isolation. I think it would
:04:01. > :04:04.have a profound effect on our national life. The fragmentation
:04:05. > :04:10.that will come and the fear and division, those are the things that
:04:11. > :04:13.the terrorists could not great with our bombs, but we will have a
:04:14. > :04:21.situation where society becomes more divided. If this decision is taken,
:04:22. > :04:28.the dominoes will start to fall and it won't just be the EU that breaks
:04:29. > :04:30.up, it will be Britain, as well. The mismatch between Labour activists
:04:31. > :04:36.and wider supporters has been borne out by polls. One found 27% of
:04:37. > :04:51.Labour supporters want to leave the EU, and another found a just 10% of
:04:52. > :04:56.Labour members favour Brexit. Immigration is what they tend to
:04:57. > :04:59.break as one of the biggest problems, the voters, and that is
:05:00. > :05:04.where they are most at odds with the party they have traditionally voted
:05:05. > :05:08.for and on that issue that they hear the Leave campaign and the Brexit
:05:09. > :05:14.politicians really resonating with them. Andy Burnham is planning to
:05:15. > :05:18.relocate his political career entirely to the North West, as the
:05:19. > :05:20.new mayor of greater Manchester to repair relations with voters who
:05:21. > :05:27.should be Labour's natural supporters. He wants to avoid a
:05:28. > :05:32.repeat of the fate suffered by the party in Scotland after the
:05:33. > :05:36.independence referendum. There is a parallel between the Scottish
:05:37. > :05:39.referendum and what happens to Labour after it and the European
:05:40. > :05:47.referendum, there is, quite a clear parallel. Labour could be threatened
:05:48. > :05:52.afterwards. If we are perceived not to be listening to the concerns that
:05:53. > :05:55.people have expressed. Another challenge for Labour, divisions
:05:56. > :06:00.between former ministers such as Andy Burnham and their leader Jeremy
:06:01. > :06:06.Corbyn. His support for the EU is not exactly heartfelt. Ukip hopes to
:06:07. > :06:11.exploit these divisions as the party attempts to build on its recent
:06:12. > :06:14.modest success in the North West. You have a leader of the Labour
:06:15. > :06:20.Party who clearly is on the record as being anti-EU, and Jeremy Corbyn
:06:21. > :06:24.is now a hostage of the Parliamentary Labour Party. He
:06:25. > :06:29.stands there defending the right for us to be in the EU, and they will
:06:30. > :06:33.pay a price for that after the referendum. But there are some
:06:34. > :06:38.hopeful lines for Labour, Andy Burnham met if you can through
:06:39. > :06:46.spirits in Manchester bash hopeful signs. You are definitely in? Yes.
:06:47. > :06:50.I'm a small business, and you want to be international and trade with
:06:51. > :06:54.other countries. For the moment, Andy Burnham is focusing on winning
:06:55. > :06:59.back former members of the Labour tribe by spelling out the benefits
:07:00. > :07:02.of the EU, he hopes the experience of his father who benefited from EU
:07:03. > :07:09.free movement rules to find work in Germany after missing his job, we'll
:07:10. > :07:12.win over the sceptics. That is it is established in the national psyche,
:07:13. > :07:18.the Alfie design pattern generation, they left to find work elsewhere, at
:07:19. > :07:20.additional industry was being removed by Margaret Thatcher, and
:07:21. > :07:28.that is remembered well in the North West. -- as traditional industry. If
:07:29. > :07:33.it was good enough for us back then, why is it not good enough for others
:07:34. > :07:37.now? Brexit will limit the life chances of today's generation,
:07:38. > :07:41.because if times get tough again, they won't be able to find work
:07:42. > :07:49.elsewhere as easily as we did in the past. Reaching out to an iconic
:07:50. > :07:51.1980s television series shows the scale of Labour's challenging
:07:52. > :07:57.reconnecting with its former grassroots supporters. Calmer waters
:07:58. > :08:03.are likely to remain a long way off regardless of the referendum result.
:08:04. > :08:06.Well, joining me now is Owen Smith - the Shadow Work
:08:07. > :08:15.You heard what Andy Burnham had to say, a real prospect of isolation.
:08:16. > :08:19.Do you agree? It is balanced on a knife edge at it is possible it
:08:20. > :08:22.could go either way. It has clearly got more difficult for those of us
:08:23. > :08:27.who believe we should be remaining to make the case in recent weeks,
:08:28. > :08:33.and the Leave campaign have had the mental, but Andy said what we have
:08:34. > :08:38.got to emphasise -- have had the momentum. Working people need to
:08:39. > :08:43.stay because they will be worse off if we leave. He recognises there is
:08:44. > :08:48.a disconnect between the Labour elite at Westminster and what
:08:49. > :08:56.working-class Labour supporters are fearful. I'm not sure that is right.
:08:57. > :09:01.70% of Labour supporters, Labour voters, are in favour of staying in,
:09:02. > :09:05.so there is actually quite a clear correlation between our position of
:09:06. > :09:09.being in and what pollsters have been told, but on immigration and
:09:10. > :09:16.other things, there are clearly massive worries around the country.
:09:17. > :09:19.These worries people have come at you have not sufficiently reassured
:09:20. > :09:26.people about, that is quite clear. I do agree. You have not taken on
:09:27. > :09:31.immigration properly. Immigration is something people worry about, but we
:09:32. > :09:35.are hearing that people are worried about jobs and security and the
:09:36. > :09:38.nature of the work they have and wages, and immigration has become
:09:39. > :09:45.something which sits alongside all of those things, it is bound up with
:09:46. > :09:47.a sense of loss and decline, especially in working-class former
:09:48. > :09:50.industrial areas and we have got to be doing more to speak to those
:09:51. > :09:58.people because they are our people. John Mann, MP of yours, he has
:09:59. > :10:01.announced that he backs the Leave campaign, he says it is not
:10:02. > :10:08.representing working-class interests and he says people are terrified to
:10:09. > :10:12.talk about immigration, and he says there is a mismatch between the
:10:13. > :10:20.things that matter to you and the people in the North West. I come
:10:21. > :10:22.from Pontypridd and directly sent a South Wales working-class
:10:23. > :10:26.constituency and I know the people I represent -- and I represent. I
:10:27. > :10:34.think John Mann is completely wrong about this. For my people in my
:10:35. > :10:37.constituency, and people in Andy's constituency, they will be worse off
:10:38. > :10:41.if we leave the European Union, we will have less tax revenue and we
:10:42. > :10:46.will see a hard right wing Tory government led by nincompoops like
:10:47. > :10:53.Boris Johnson taking money away from my constituency. I would suggest to
:10:54. > :10:59.you, what John Mann says, what kind of country we want to live in in 20
:11:00. > :11:03.years' time, do we want an extra ten within people living here? He says
:11:04. > :11:10.these are the concerns of working class people and you are dismissive
:11:11. > :11:13.of these fears. I said I'm not dismissive of people regarding
:11:14. > :11:19.immigration and I'd do not think we have done enough to address that
:11:20. > :11:25.issue. -- I do not think. There is a genuine need for us to listen to
:11:26. > :11:28.what people are saying, they want us to do something about it, but we
:11:29. > :11:34.should not cut off our noses to spite our face. What is Jeremy
:11:35. > :11:40.Corbyn going to say about the referendum? He is going to say that
:11:41. > :11:43.we hear people's concerns about what immigration does in terms of
:11:44. > :11:47.depressing wages and causing problems in communities, but we have
:11:48. > :11:50.got to express the truth of the complexity, if we had not had
:11:51. > :11:57.immigration we would not have had any bounce back in our economy, and
:11:58. > :12:02.we would not have the NHS... Is that not patronising to your voters? The
:12:03. > :12:05.way in which they are being patronised is being sold a simple
:12:06. > :12:12.lie by the Brexit campaign, which is if you leave we will be better off
:12:13. > :12:15.and we will sort out immigration. You do not hold with Andy Burnham's
:12:16. > :12:18.view that the lesson in the Scottish referendum is one that you should
:12:19. > :12:24.take because you are very much in peril? Look at what happened to
:12:25. > :12:29.Labour after the election and the referendum. I do not think that an
:12:30. > :12:35.allergy is right, the fact is, all parties are split, the Tories are
:12:36. > :12:40.split on this -- I don't think that an allergy is right. We need to work
:12:41. > :12:44.to raid saying those voters after the election, but I go back to the
:12:45. > :12:49.central point, we have got to be clear, Labour collectively, a few
:12:50. > :12:52.people apart, are in favour of staying in because for those
:12:53. > :12:57.workers, even if they have concerns about immigration, they will be
:12:58. > :13:04.worse off, they and their families, if we leave. What happens when you
:13:05. > :13:09.have Labour voters who voted to leave, are they not your people? Of
:13:10. > :13:15.course they are. Whichever way people vote, in this election. We
:13:16. > :13:19.have got to represent all of these people, but we have also got to be
:13:20. > :13:28.leaders and our view as leaders of the Labour movement in this country,
:13:29. > :13:32.trade unions and people like me, people will be better off, ordinary
:13:33. > :13:36.working people will be better off if we stay in the EU and they will be
:13:37. > :13:39.financially disadvantaged, we will have another recession, a hard right
:13:40. > :13:46.wing Tory government making more cuts. They will scrap workers'
:13:47. > :13:50.rights and make cuts in our communities and we will lose out,
:13:51. > :13:57.not them. You have a different agenda but you on the same side as
:13:58. > :14:03.the Tories in this. Not half of them. What will you say to all the
:14:04. > :14:07.Labour supporters of yours in the North East, with Ukip around, what
:14:08. > :14:12.do you say to them about their views? We will say that we have
:14:13. > :14:16.heard loud and clear, whichever way the vote goes, that people have deep
:14:17. > :14:19.concerns about immigration and concerns about the fact that
:14:20. > :14:25.post-industrial bits of Britain, are not very well, we need an active
:14:26. > :14:28.government, and active strategy, putting jobs back into the divinity,
:14:29. > :14:31.and if Labour does not do that, no one is going to. -- into the
:14:32. > :14:35.community. Thanks for joining us. Business leaders have been
:14:36. > :14:37.in the forefront of the EU debate, on both sides of the divide,
:14:38. > :14:40.but now the universities, who've been drowned out,
:14:41. > :14:42.are upping the volume. The difference is they are all
:14:43. > :14:44.singing from the same hymn sheet, Chris Cook has had sight of a report
:14:45. > :14:52.they're publishing tomorrow. This is a report focusing on the
:14:53. > :14:57.contribution of the European Union's research budgets to UK universities.
:14:58. > :15:04.British universities do for nominally well, we get around one in
:15:05. > :15:11.?7 that the EU spends on research in the whole of the EU, and that
:15:12. > :15:17.supports 19,000 jobs, but to be clear, universities get a lot of
:15:18. > :15:22.money, not just on research, but from foreign students, EU students,
:15:23. > :15:26.and they do not want to leave, for mercenary reasons, you might think,
:15:27. > :15:29.but also for other reasons, they are very keen on international
:15:30. > :15:35.collaboration in research which they think is a key thing that the EU
:15:36. > :15:40.enables. Will we hear more from universities?
:15:41. > :15:47.We will not only hear more, we will see something we have not seen
:15:48. > :15:51.before, it is common universities to make pitches to the country and to
:15:52. > :15:55.Westminster, no university leaders are making a play to get their own
:15:56. > :16:03.staff and students to vote for Remain. Appealing to their captive
:16:04. > :16:07.photos. There are millions of students disproportionately young,
:16:08. > :16:11.well-educated, classic Remain quotas and the universities are desperate
:16:12. > :16:15.to mobilise them. The principal of Edinburgh has written to his
:16:16. > :16:19.students basically recommending a Remain vote. The Vice Chancellor of
:16:20. > :16:24.Exeter has done the same in weaker language. I know at least three
:16:25. > :16:27.other vice Chancellors working with their councils on how far it is
:16:28. > :16:31.appropriate for them to go but they are desperate and next week we will
:16:32. > :16:34.see more from the chancellors. Chris Cook, thank you very much.
:16:35. > :16:37.Now the art of persuasion is very important in a Referendum,
:16:38. > :16:40.so we have deployed a passionate advocate on each side of the debate,
:16:41. > :16:43.to take their message into if not quite into the enemy camp then
:16:44. > :16:45.to areas where the majority appears to be against them.
:16:46. > :16:47.Film-maker Warwick Harrington took Roland Rudd, from Business
:16:48. > :16:50.into Europe, to Wolverhampton, and the former spokeswoman
:16:51. > :16:52.for the UK Independence Party Suzanne Burns
:16:53. > :17:23.I think we are going to Hampstead because I'm throwing myself into
:17:24. > :17:44.Why do you think Hampstead is so Europhile?
:17:45. > :17:46.I don't know Hampstead terribly well but I
:17:47. > :17:49.am guessing there are people there who are quite wealthy, has prices
:17:50. > :17:55.The sort of people who probably have not felt
:17:56. > :17:56.the impact of mass uncontrolled immigration
:17:57. > :18:06.the kind of jobs where people's wages are being forced down.
:18:07. > :18:09.Wolverhampton is a great place to go to because it
:18:10. > :18:12.big majority for Out, there is real concern
:18:13. > :18:16.about immigration and perhaps not necessarily an
:18:17. > :18:21.understanding of just how important economically
:18:22. > :18:24.understanding of just how important economically it is for people in
:18:25. > :18:27.It's amazing being here because 30 years ago, I
:18:28. > :18:30.started as a journalist at the Express and Star and recently they
:18:31. > :18:32.had a very interesting poll saying that 80% favoured Brexit.
:18:33. > :18:37.This was one of the strongest entries in the world
:18:38. > :18:39.once, why can't we be like that again?
:18:40. > :18:42.I don't really like Nigel Farage but what he
:18:43. > :18:45.says makes sense, I watched last night and I watched David Cameron,
:18:46. > :18:47.Nigel Farage is passionate about this country.
:18:48. > :18:50.Lately I'm feeling what will happen to my
:18:51. > :18:55.She wants a bigger house, she can't get one.
:18:56. > :19:03.No disrespect to the families who are
:19:04. > :19:06.coming in from Europe, you're welcome but you have to step
:19:07. > :19:10.let them step back and look after the kids In this country first.
:19:11. > :19:15.One is, there have been a lot of jobs created recently and
:19:16. > :19:18.about nine out of ten of those jobs have been
:19:19. > :19:19.people living here, so
:19:20. > :19:33.It actually feels quite at home, my favourite French cafe chain
:19:34. > :19:39.there and a fabulous homeware store that I use there.
:19:40. > :19:57.I just think I want to be able to vote in to power my MPs to make
:19:58. > :19:59.the laws and if I don't like it I can vote
:20:00. > :20:02.them out but those commissioners, you can't get rid of them.
:20:03. > :20:04.Are you feeling you are not living in a
:20:05. > :20:12.I don't have a problem with immigration, I just
:20:13. > :20:16.It means that from 28 other countries...
:20:17. > :20:21.And if it was not for the fact that we have
:20:22. > :20:23.East European immigrants, pouring into this country, as you say, then
:20:24. > :20:25.the construction industry would collapse.
:20:26. > :20:29.About whether we should stay in or out.
:20:30. > :20:34.If we leave, we end up with a recession.
:20:35. > :20:37.That is what the governor of the Bank of England says.
:20:38. > :20:56.I'll give you a quick example, right?
:20:57. > :21:05.They are doing a big plant here - they are.
:21:06. > :21:09.And by the end of this year, there will be 1600
:21:10. > :21:12.jobs in Wolverhampton and 30,000 jobs in the whole of the West
:21:13. > :21:20.Never mind that, it's all about people who got no skills or
:21:21. > :21:25.I've got no skills, no qualifications, no nothing.
:21:26. > :21:36.If it was just about us, we would probably vote to stay, we're
:21:37. > :21:39.thinking of our kids, we are struggling to get the deposit for a
:21:40. > :21:44.house and we've got good jobs and I don't want that for my children. I
:21:45. > :21:50.don't want them to be, they've got good jobs but Bristol can't afford a
:21:51. > :21:56.house. Almost everyone we have spoken to who is that they will vote
:21:57. > :22:00.Out has mentioned house prices, has that surprised you? Per house prices
:22:01. > :22:05.hasn't surprised me, what surprises me is that there is a school of
:22:06. > :22:09.thought that somehow if house prices crash that could somehow be good
:22:10. > :22:11.news because their kids can get onto the housing ladder and they can sort
:22:12. > :22:23.out later. One of the main reasons I am voting
:22:24. > :22:30.to leave is because of the huge democratic deficit of the EU. It
:22:31. > :22:35.behaves like a dictatorship. Hi fine, but these are problems that we
:22:36. > :22:41.can talk about and resolve. There are plenty of flaws in the current
:22:42. > :22:45.UK democratic system. We can apply the same argumentation, then we've
:22:46. > :22:51.got to pack in our passports and it is the argument, making the argument
:22:52. > :22:58.flawed because we have a non-elected House of Lords.
:22:59. > :23:12.Argue for staying in all voting out? Out. Any reason why? Immigration.
:23:13. > :23:16.Refugees is different but you've got people coming to this country who
:23:17. > :23:22.are getting benefits and have never paid anything and they can't speak
:23:23. > :23:27.English... I agree but if you come here and you have to work for four
:23:28. > :23:35.years before you get any benefits, that's better. What have you learned
:23:36. > :23:38.today? That immigration is a major issue, the sense of unfairness is
:23:39. > :23:43.really worrying people. They probably will vote to stay in if it
:23:44. > :23:48.means that we can be economically better off but they want to see the
:23:49. > :23:52.benefits of the single market much more evenly distributed. What
:23:53. > :23:58.shocked me was the passion from one side and the other was quite rare to
:23:59. > :24:04.find. We managed to find you some people to talk to but the passion
:24:05. > :24:11.was rare. Do you think we live in a democracy? Yes. She was sweet and
:24:12. > :24:19.listened and was smiling but I don't think I was making any headway!
:24:20. > :24:23.Nothing more is going to happen. OK! LAUGHTER
:24:24. > :24:26.The Persuaders! Last night on Newsnight we revealed
:24:27. > :24:29.doubts that the Eritrean man extradited from Sudan to Italy
:24:30. > :24:31.to face human trafficking charges relating to thousands of migrants,
:24:32. > :24:41.and possible homicide charges, is actually Mered Medhane,
:24:42. > :24:43.the man the security A man with a similar name appears to
:24:44. > :24:52.have been arrested in this place. The sister of the man being held
:24:53. > :24:55.who lives in Norway has today insisted her brother is a victim
:24:56. > :24:57.of mistaken identity and that he just happens
:24:58. > :25:05.to have the same first name. Who really is this man? What we know
:25:06. > :25:09.is that he has been extradited from Sudan to Italy, authorities from
:25:10. > :25:11.their belief he is a people smuggling boss called Mered
:25:12. > :25:14.Medhanie, others say they've got the wrong man and they have actually
:25:15. > :25:22.picked up an innocent Eritrean refugee. Those making the case
:25:23. > :25:26.include the sister of the man arrested, who says that she
:25:27. > :25:31.recognises him as her brother whom she has been living with in
:25:32. > :25:37.Khartoum. You couldn't be mistaken, it is definitely your brother? Yeah,
:25:38. > :25:41.it's definitely my brother. I'm not mistaken because I have been looking
:25:42. > :25:48.for him for two weeks, yesterday, all of a sudden, he came on the
:25:49. > :25:54.Internet as a human trafficker. He is not human trafficker. I'm sure of
:25:55. > :25:59.them, it's my brother. When was the first moment you realised that he
:26:00. > :26:08.had been arrested? I saw it on Facebook. What was your reaction? I
:26:09. > :26:16.was going crazy, I'm worried sick. Because the photo I saw yesterday,
:26:17. > :26:20.it is disturbing, he looks awful! Her version of events does is
:26:21. > :26:27.incredible. She says that her brother was arrested in Khartoum on
:26:28. > :26:31.May 24, the same day that authorities say that they arrested a
:26:32. > :26:36.man they believe is the notorious people smuggler -- smuggler, bed and
:26:37. > :26:40.Madonna. She says she has not heard anything from her brothers on
:26:41. > :26:52.Saturday. I have been searching for him two weeks. They told me there is
:26:53. > :26:55.nobody of that name in prison. If they cautioned him he would say that
:26:56. > :27:17.my sister Could police have mistaken the
:27:18. > :27:20.refugee on the left on the right? We asked a world leading facial
:27:21. > :27:26.recognition expert to compare these images with those of the man
:27:27. > :27:30.arrested. In an ideal world it would have been nice to undertake a full
:27:31. > :27:34.friends and review, make a proper comparison. I have been able to make
:27:35. > :27:41.a preliminary review and look at these images in detail and I am of
:27:42. > :27:45.the view that the person we believe to be the smuggler is not the person
:27:46. > :27:50.we see in custody. Equally, the person we understand to be the
:27:51. > :27:57.innocent party in this is most likely to be the person who is in
:27:58. > :28:03.custody. The arrest was a joint operation between British, Italian
:28:04. > :28:04.and Sudanese authorities. The sister of the arrested man wants answers
:28:05. > :28:05.from the police. I want to say to the police
:28:06. > :28:08.in England that they They should be investigating,
:28:09. > :28:11.he's not a human trafficker, he's an innocent refugee
:28:12. > :28:13.who arrived last year in Sudan. He doesn't do anything
:28:14. > :28:30.about the smuggling or anything. The real smuggling kingpin is
:28:31. > :28:35.accused of trafficking thousands of migrants across the Mediterranean to
:28:36. > :28:38.Italy, hundreds are said to have died, this arrest was meant to be
:28:39. > :28:43.one of the first big blows to the network behind the flow of people.
:28:44. > :28:47.Authorities in Italy say they are now checking the identity of the man
:28:48. > :28:51.they have. In Britain and the National Crime Agency says it is
:28:52. > :28:55.still too early to comment on the claims but what was originally
:28:56. > :28:59.touted as a major success is now looking increasingly dubious.
:29:00. > :29:02.When two Ulster Volunteer Force gunmen burst into a packed bar
:29:03. > :29:04.in Loughinisland in County Down as customers watched the Republic
:29:05. > :29:09.of Ireland playing Italy in the World Cup in 1994,
:29:10. > :29:11.they sprayed bullets indiscriminately, killing six men
:29:12. > :29:21.Now 22 years later, after a long campaign for Justice
:29:22. > :29:23.a second Ombudsman's report has concluded that there was significant
:29:24. > :29:25.collusion by the security forces in the murders.
:29:26. > :29:27.Among Dr Michael Maguire's damning findings was the revelation
:29:28. > :29:30.that the murder squad that carried out the killings had been involved
:29:31. > :29:38.in a number of other murders but had avoided arrest because the RUC's
:29:39. > :29:40.Special Branch intelligence unit had withheld evidence from detectives
:29:41. > :29:49.I'm joined now by the solicitor for the families, Niall Murphy.
:29:50. > :30:02.What was the reaction of the families? We had a private briefing
:30:03. > :30:09.yesterday with. The Maguire -- with doctor Maguire, the reaction was
:30:10. > :30:15.that the families were euphoric, exoneration of a 22 year campaign, a
:30:16. > :30:19.campaign conducted with dignity and perseverance, but the euphoria that
:30:20. > :30:26.their suspicions had been confirmed by an official state, the office of
:30:27. > :30:31.the police ombudsman, but it turns to one of outrage, their campaign
:30:32. > :30:35.had been about truth recovery, but when they received the truth it was
:30:36. > :30:40.a very difficult truth and a series of facts which were difficult to
:30:41. > :30:46.come to terms with. Very damning finding regarding a number of
:30:47. > :30:48.different counts for the police, and also the fact that Loyalist
:30:49. > :30:52.paramilitaries were being employed as police informants. Who do you
:30:53. > :30:59.think is responsible for the miscarriage of justice? Ultimate
:31:00. > :31:06.responsibility must be in those in senior positions, this is the latest
:31:07. > :31:13.report which joins a library of equally condemning reports from
:31:14. > :31:19.Stevens, Savile, the silver and reports by the previous police
:31:20. > :31:22.ombudsman, but this cannot gather dust on the shelf and there must be
:31:23. > :31:30.accountability and that accountability must come from those
:31:31. > :31:32.in senior positions who inserted the policy which allowed the grotesque
:31:33. > :31:39.intelligence failings which manifested themselves in the
:31:40. > :31:43.conclusion that collusion was a feature this atrocity. Do you think
:31:44. > :31:47.the authorities know who committed these murders? I know for a fact
:31:48. > :31:53.they know who committed these murders, it is laid out in the
:31:54. > :31:57.report. The authorities knew who committed the murders within 24
:31:58. > :32:05.hours. Is there the possibility that the case could be reopened? There
:32:06. > :32:11.are difficulties and we would hope not to raise false hopes. A
:32:12. > :32:15.prosecution to the criminal standard must be built on evidence, but the
:32:16. > :32:21.problem is that far from securing and preserving evidence, the RUC
:32:22. > :32:25.destroyed evidence as they came across it, nine out of 16 suspects
:32:26. > :32:34.did not have their fingerprints, DNA horror to Mac -- DNA or hair samples
:32:35. > :32:39.taken. They have three a la lovers and three boiler suits and three
:32:40. > :32:46.sets of clubs and all the weapons used and the getaway car, the
:32:47. > :32:50.largest exhibit they could have, but they destroyed the car within ten
:32:51. > :32:55.months. The problem is the police failed to gather the evidence and
:32:56. > :32:59.when they did they destroyed it. I wonder when the common station was
:33:00. > :33:03.with the ombudsman, whether he had a view in this and whether anybody
:33:04. > :33:10.will ever be brought to justice? -- when the conversation. The ombudsman
:33:11. > :33:12.said this was an investigation characterised by indifference and
:33:13. > :33:18.incompetence and neglect. He stated that the approach to inform a
:33:19. > :33:23.handling was one of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, and
:33:24. > :33:27.this investigation did not have a chance because it did not want a
:33:28. > :33:29.chance. The people that committed this atrocity had killed before and
:33:30. > :33:33.they have the confidence that they were able to act with impunity to
:33:34. > :33:38.commit this atrocity. These are facts which are laid out very
:33:39. > :33:42.clearly, supported by original intelligence which has been viewed
:33:43. > :33:45.by police ombudsman investigators and has informed these very strong
:33:46. > :33:47.and robust conclusions which we see in the report. Thanks for joining
:33:48. > :33:52.us. Pete Souza is not a household name
:33:53. > :33:55.but you probably know his work. For the past eight years he's been
:33:56. > :34:01.the chief official White House photographer recording
:34:02. > :34:02.Barack Obama's presidency capturing not just
:34:03. > :34:06.the man but also history. From intimate family moments
:34:07. > :34:08.to drama in the situation room, and every single one of his images
:34:09. > :34:12.is archived forever. We spoke to Pete Souza as both men's
:34:13. > :34:42.tenure comes to an end. I started to photograph him in a way
:34:43. > :34:48.that, if he ever became president, the pictures I was taking early
:34:49. > :34:56.on would have some context. For instance, there's a picture
:34:57. > :34:59.I made of him, we went to Russia, and there is a picture of him
:35:00. > :35:02.when I was consciously He's walking around
:35:03. > :35:09.Red Square, on a sidewalk, I was trying to show
:35:10. > :35:16.that in the picture, that here is this US Senator walking
:35:17. > :35:19.through Red Square and no one is paying
:35:20. > :35:23.attention to him. I said to myself, if he ever became
:35:24. > :35:27.president, this is a picture You can imagine, what it would be
:35:28. > :35:37.like to have somebody pointing And certainly once
:35:38. > :35:44.he became president I think it took him several months
:35:45. > :35:54.to finally figure out that I was not going away,
:35:55. > :36:00.and that this was going to be part of his life, there was going to be
:36:01. > :36:03.this guy documenting his every move. The interesting thing about being
:36:04. > :36:07.a White House photographer, Meaning, whether it is a serious
:36:08. > :36:23.national security meeting, or a fun moment with a staff
:36:24. > :36:25.person's child coming So in that context I observe him
:36:26. > :36:37.in every aspect of his life When you add up his day,
:36:38. > :36:48.and all the things I photograph, Someone in my office who kind
:36:49. > :36:58.of monitors this said that I'd probably end up taking
:36:59. > :37:01.at the end of eight years The ones that are the hardest
:37:02. > :37:11.for me, I will say that when I'm photographing the president
:37:12. > :37:13.consoling families, Especially after the shootings
:37:14. > :37:28.where the emotions of I don't regret taking those
:37:29. > :37:34.photographs but they I'm sure that I probably had tears
:37:35. > :37:46.flowing down my cheek, just to think Time Magazine at the end
:37:47. > :38:01.of his first term asked me to choose ten pictures
:38:02. > :38:04.which represented my favourites that Because you need to show him
:38:05. > :38:21.in all aspects of his life. I mean, sure, there are pictures
:38:22. > :38:24.where he is interacting with little But I don't want people
:38:25. > :38:35.to think that's all he does. What about anguishing
:38:36. > :38:37.in the situation over Isis? So, for me, it is the body of work
:38:38. > :38:49.which is important, and not saying, "This picture is the iconic picture
:38:50. > :39:04.of the Obama administration". Tomorrow morning's front pages,
:39:05. > :39:15.three headlines. Nice football fan zones are like ten open Bataclans,
:39:16. > :39:21.that is a fear about terrorist attacks at Euro 2016. Finally, the
:39:22. > :39:27.Financial Times, Bernie Sanders is close to backing Hillary Clinton.
:39:28. > :39:52.Barack Obama went on television himself to endorse Hillary Clinton.
:39:53. > :39:54.And finally tonight, Ed Sheeran is preparing
:39:55. > :39:58.for a $20million legal action from two US songwriters.
:39:59. > :40:00.They claim Sheeran's multi-million pound track 'photograph' copied
:40:01. > :40:02.large sections of the song 'amazing' they wrote for X factor
:40:03. > :40:07.# We made these memories for ourselves
:40:08. > :40:13.# You came out of nowhere like lightening
:40:14. > :40:15.# It's kind of amazing how you found me
:40:16. > :40:32.It will be another marquee night, much cooler in the North East. Much
:40:33. > :40:33.more cloud around, it