:00:10. > :00:23.The wrong kind of relationship. England fans on the rampage in
:00:24. > :00:27.Marseille. It may be a fraud couple of weeks, but with the referendum
:00:28. > :00:29.campaign heating up, what affect will football fuelled search in
:00:30. > :00:31.nationalistic feeling have? Gabriel Gatehouse is
:00:32. > :00:41.in Marseille for us. Away from the football, who is
:00:42. > :00:45.scoring the goals in the campaign? I will ask my guest. And Britain's EU
:00:46. > :00:50.Commission gives his is experience of negotiating a trade deal. I
:00:51. > :00:53.wanted to do it quickly, the Americans wanted to do it quickly,
:00:54. > :00:55.and one narrow point, that took four years.
:00:56. > :00:58.And the world says farewell to Muhammad Ali.
:00:59. > :01:06.We will reflect on the man, the radical and his changing politics.
:01:07. > :01:10.There are some things common to most European nations,
:01:11. > :01:12.even including ours - universal health coverage,
:01:13. > :01:14.gun control, an expectation of at least four
:01:15. > :01:19.But more important than any of these, a shared belief that
:01:20. > :01:23.And that four-yearly feast of European football,
:01:24. > :01:26.the European Championships, is at last underway.
:01:27. > :01:33.France, the host nation, won the first match of the tournament
:01:34. > :01:41.However, this is an unusually interesting time for such a contest.
:01:42. > :01:44.Do we think we own Europe, do we hate it, or does our shared
:01:45. > :01:48.love of football bring us closer to the continent?
:01:49. > :01:57.the city hosting England's first game tomorrow evening.
:01:58. > :02:05.Good evening to you, Gabriel. Well, we have just moved back about
:02:06. > :02:08.one Street from where the confrontations have been happening.
:02:09. > :02:13.You can possibly see behind me the blue flashing lights of the police
:02:14. > :02:17.cars. The confrontations have been mostly between England fans and the
:02:18. > :02:21.riot police here. Quite a lot of drinking going on and some fans have
:02:22. > :02:25.been throwing bottles. The riot police have responded, as they do in
:02:26. > :02:29.France, quite quickly, with tear gassed sometimes, charging the fans.
:02:30. > :02:38.These are the kinds of confrontations that have been
:02:39. > :02:40.flaring up every now and then, mostly between England fans and the
:02:41. > :02:43.riot police, but we do now have also quite a few Russian fans walking
:02:44. > :02:46.through town, so the tensions are growing a bit. My impression is it
:02:47. > :02:49.is largely a minority who are involved in this. Most people here
:02:50. > :02:54.are in quite good spirits, good-natured, but some of the bars
:02:55. > :02:55.and cafes are now closing down and these confrontations do seem to be
:02:56. > :03:03.flaring up throughout the evening. For the second evening in a row,
:03:04. > :03:07.England is making itself heard in the centre of Marseille in a way
:03:08. > :03:11.that is making the locals nervous. The match doesn't even kick off
:03:12. > :03:16.until tomorrow. We filmed these celebrations just moments after
:03:17. > :03:19.police charged on a pub where fans were drinking and then throwing
:03:20. > :03:24.bottles. We saw three people arrested, at least one of them
:03:25. > :03:29.wearing an England shirt. Well, there is often a fine line between
:03:30. > :03:34.exuberant celebration and something more uncomfortable and this is right
:03:35. > :03:41.on that line. It is not clear where this is going now.
:03:42. > :03:44.Last night, police fired tear gas to break of a confrontation between
:03:45. > :03:49.locals, mostly young men, and some England fans. The violence was
:03:50. > :03:55.contained relatively quickly but in Marseille, these scenes are revoking
:03:56. > :03:59.uncomfortable memories. In 1998, there were running battles on the
:04:00. > :04:03.street when England play Tunisia here in their opening World Cup
:04:04. > :04:10.match. Dozens were injured, more than 100 arrested or deported. It
:04:11. > :04:15.was not England's finest hour. This year, with 24 nations taking part,
:04:16. > :04:20.these are the biggest European Championships ever. They come at a
:04:21. > :04:24.difficult time for France. There is the state of emergency, still in
:04:25. > :04:26.force after the attacks in Paris last year, then there are the public
:04:27. > :04:32.sector strokes over Labour conditions. A poll out this week
:04:33. > :04:39.suggest Euro scepticism in France is higher even than it is in Britain.
:04:40. > :04:52.In politics and in football, the French are keeping a wary eye on les
:04:53. > :04:56.Anglais. There used to be very, very unpleasant but I suppose they have
:04:57. > :05:01.calmed down. And les Anglais have a habit of causing trouble in Europe
:05:02. > :05:06.as well. They can be difficult, but it is a matter of business, you see?
:05:07. > :05:12.They try to get what they want and we should all do that, actually. All
:05:13. > :05:16.over Europe, they are talking about Brexit. Some with trepidation, some
:05:17. > :05:21.with glee. The referendum takes place in a hiatus between the group
:05:22. > :05:25.matches and the knockout stages and so it is possible that England,
:05:26. > :05:29.Wales and Northern Ireland could crash out of the European Union
:05:30. > :05:41.before they get booted out of the European Championships. David Ginola
:05:42. > :05:47.is covering the football for a French channel. Could football bring
:05:48. > :05:51.Europe together? I doubt about this. Why? Because we are all talking
:05:52. > :05:56.about Europe but on the other hand, what is really Europe? We keep our
:05:57. > :06:02.identities, England, France, Spain. We have our past, our history and as
:06:03. > :06:13.a nation, Europe is not already a nation for me, as common history
:06:14. > :06:16.bringing things altogether. Fans are still making their way south across
:06:17. > :06:24.France for tomorrow's match. We stopped off in the town of Rhiems,
:06:25. > :06:33.two hours from Paris. And came across these guys. John, Murray, Ken
:06:34. > :06:38.and Loz are the official England's supporters' band and haven't missed
:06:39. > :06:42.a tournament England have played since France 1998. So we are very,
:06:43. > :06:47.very hopeful this could be the year. But could the footy have an impact
:06:48. > :06:50.on the referendum? As soon as I heard the date, I thought, positive
:06:51. > :06:58.England performance, everyone will be happy and they will vote in. What
:06:59. > :07:03.is your rationale behind that? And some may think that because the
:07:04. > :07:06.tournament is here, there will be, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of
:07:07. > :07:11.football fans out of the country and which way would they vote? So let's
:07:12. > :07:13.have it in the middle of the tournament. When you come out of a
:07:14. > :07:19.tournament like this, does it make you feel more English or more
:07:20. > :07:28.European? I see where you are going. It makes us feel more English. We
:07:29. > :07:33.argue constantly about this issue in the bus, travelling everywhere that
:07:34. > :07:36.we travel, all the time. Ken, for example, finds himself agreeing with
:07:37. > :07:41.David Cameron. Never done that before in his life. You see, the
:07:42. > :07:46.band is very lucky to have Ken with us because he has a degree in
:07:47. > :07:51.politics. He is setting is right, you see. It was a very long time
:07:52. > :07:53.ago. When you could buy them on the Internet -- couldn't buy them on the
:07:54. > :08:03.Internet. Let's get Marseille in perspective.
:08:04. > :08:08.This is not, at the moment, a repeat of 1998. Many of the fans seem to be
:08:09. > :08:13.channelling the spirit of Leicester City, a bit drunk still, perhaps on
:08:14. > :08:17.the nectar of unexpected success. It is mostly pretty good-natured stuff.
:08:18. > :08:23.Away from the city centre this afternoon, there was time for some
:08:24. > :08:28.cultural immersion for the opposition. Surrogate, Maxine and a
:08:29. > :08:29.surrogate have come from 1,000 kilometres east of Moscow to make
:08:30. > :08:40.friends with the locals -- Sir Guy. But despite all the national
:08:41. > :08:44.bravado, the divisions, there are still occasional glimmers of that
:08:45. > :08:57.cherished notion that football can be a force for unity.
:08:58. > :09:06.He never loses a chance to show off his Russian on this programme.
:09:07. > :09:08.Well, it's not exactly clear how the football
:09:09. > :09:10.will affect the campaign - or the fans' behaviour -
:09:11. > :09:14.but it is clear that it has been a good week for the Leave campaign,
:09:15. > :09:16.the latest polls giving a considerable lead to Brexit.
:09:17. > :09:18.The pound fell this evening on the news.
:09:19. > :09:20.Tis' the season for football pundits, we have two
:09:21. > :09:24.I'm joined by Anne McElvoy from the Economist
:09:25. > :09:39.Let's just talk about how the football affects the referendum. So,
:09:40. > :09:45.if England does well, do people like one of those guys suggested, do we
:09:46. > :09:48.vote to stay in or does it make us confident and stay out? Probably not
:09:49. > :09:52.very much at all either way, if you want the honest answer, but I think
:09:53. > :09:57.if you look at it in a grand historical sweep, in the 1970s, when
:09:58. > :10:00.we joined the European economic community, it was because Britain
:10:01. > :10:04.was thought to be in permanent decline. We have the troubles in
:10:05. > :10:07.Northern Ireland, we were being written off as an economic power,
:10:08. > :10:16.still coming to terms with our loss of empire and we felt we needed
:10:17. > :10:19.something new, I think, and partly motivated Europe. I think today we
:10:20. > :10:21.feel are much more confident nation, London's success, generally Britain
:10:22. > :10:25.growing faster than Europe and I think we don't need Europe in some
:10:26. > :10:30.way and if we do well in the football, it reinforces the sense of
:10:31. > :10:35.we can survive on our own. Do you agree? I am not so sure, not that
:10:36. > :10:38.you would ever put me as a regular football pundit and if any if this
:10:39. > :10:41.is to be linked to the fortunes of the England football team, I
:10:42. > :10:45.wouldn't be confident that will turn out to good, but I think that's
:10:46. > :10:50.likely nationalistic surge, not necessarily what you showed in
:10:51. > :10:54.Marseille, this idea of yes we could give it a go alone, it is probably
:10:55. > :10:57.more use to Brexit in the short term but it will get the pushback from
:10:58. > :11:01.people who perhaps feel it is not the way that they want the country
:11:02. > :11:04.to be perceived. They are happy to go along with it at Eurovision or in
:11:05. > :11:10.the football, but I think they will also want to be more risk averse. It
:11:11. > :11:15.is the timid voters I am interested in. If it looks like you can run the
:11:16. > :11:18.show, though, you can stay in, if it looks like you are the boss of
:11:19. > :11:24.Europe you want to be in the club. Let's move onto this week. Do we
:11:25. > :11:29.believe these polls? The slightly unusual polls, 10% lives and stuff
:11:30. > :11:33.like that. I don't believe it, I party don't believe it, because we
:11:34. > :11:37.have no idea of the level of turnout and I think Nick Watt explained this
:11:38. > :11:41.on the programme the other night, if the turnout is relatively low, it
:11:42. > :11:47.favours Leave, because they are much more 90s elastic. If you start to
:11:48. > :11:52.move up, it favours Remain. But if you move up a further point, it
:11:53. > :11:55.flips back to Leave, because people who generally don't vote in
:11:56. > :11:58.elections, if they are brought out, people who prefer football to
:11:59. > :12:02.Newsnight, if they come out, they will Vote Leave macro. It is clearly
:12:03. > :12:10.a close race, I think that is all we can tell from the opinion polls. I
:12:11. > :12:13.think ten points is way beyond where Leave really are, but what is
:12:14. > :12:18.interesting at this point is momentum and where we are going. If
:12:19. > :12:22.we sat here a week ago on the Friday night, big debate, Michael Gove was
:12:23. > :12:26.on fire, it did look like a great time for Leave and I thought it
:12:27. > :12:30.would be nibbled away at this week because it was clear Remain wanted
:12:31. > :12:35.to get back to the risk factors, they are still wheeling out the
:12:36. > :12:38.heavy artillery and right to do so because the disruption would be
:12:39. > :12:44.considerable, they need to get their point across, and yet this figure,
:12:45. > :12:48.very odd figure of 350 million a week that we are supposed to pay to
:12:49. > :12:52.the EU, even though we get almost half of it back again one way or
:12:53. > :12:56.another, it does seem to have caught fire again for Leave. Yes, they have
:12:57. > :13:00.come under pressure about it but I haven't had the feeling that...
:13:01. > :13:05.There is a theory about that 350, that you have, which is that we keep
:13:06. > :13:13.banging on about it and we say it is a lie and repeated.
:13:14. > :13:18.A few years ago, Matthew Elliott ran a campaign on changing the electoral
:13:19. > :13:23.system, the thought was that the cost would be a few hundred million
:13:24. > :13:26.pounds and that should be spent on nurses, most people in Westminster
:13:27. > :13:30.thought, what a ridiculous thing to focus upon when we are talking about
:13:31. > :13:34.the grand notion of the electoral system but we are in a period of
:13:35. > :13:37.austerity, people object to any of their money going to things they do
:13:38. > :13:42.not want it spent on. Some people are offended by that ?350 million
:13:43. > :13:48.figure may not be accurate but many more people are offended about
:13:49. > :13:51.sending 200 million, ?100 million to Europe, of course it is inaccurate,
:13:52. > :13:56.because it understates the truth will stop if we wrote to remain, I
:13:57. > :14:07.hope we won't, but if we do, you can be sure that they will be asking
:14:08. > :14:11.more. The Economist, where I work, is pro-remain, but the Chancellor
:14:12. > :14:24.has come out and said it is going to cost ?300, ?4000... He did not quite
:14:25. > :14:29.add on that is Evan pens... ?4300. If it goes one is those were the
:14:30. > :14:38.other. -- he did not quite add on 37p. Where is meant, momentum feels
:14:39. > :14:42.more strongly there. Remain, with the exception of the television
:14:43. > :14:49.debate last night, when there was a lot putting the boot in, a lot of it
:14:50. > :14:54.was too personal and particular to the Tory party, if I look at remain,
:14:55. > :14:58.who is meant to be the start of the show? I don't know. The start of the
:14:59. > :15:02.show is David Cameron but we have a YouGov poll in the Times which is
:15:03. > :15:08.only 18% of people trust him on Europe. You have this person who is
:15:09. > :15:11.on the television all the time and he is a huge turn-off to voters,
:15:12. > :15:15.what they need is Jeremy Corbyn out there, the big story, I think, the
:15:16. > :15:23.Labour voters not supporting what their party leadership. The constant
:15:24. > :15:29.equivocation... Must it be Jeremy Corbyn? You have a front bench team
:15:30. > :15:34.on labour who can tell their voters. One person it should not be is Tony
:15:35. > :15:39.Blair. We have seen him, his trust ratings are incredibly low. We may
:15:40. > :15:44.need to find somebody like Martin Lewis, consumer rights expert. They
:15:45. > :15:50.deployed him. On the other side, James Dyson, who is, I think, in an
:15:51. > :15:54.opinion poll, the second most trusted person on these issues and
:15:55. > :16:02.he is coming out emphatically for leave, business person, successful
:16:03. > :16:07.entrepreneur, saying that we can thrive, that is going to continue
:16:08. > :16:11.the momentum. When people do not like political elite will, it is
:16:12. > :16:16.difficult to say that you have a campaign with more political elite
:16:17. > :16:24.oral! When Barack Obama came I did not like the rhetoric. Imagine how
:16:25. > :16:29.Americans would feel if it went the other way. Is a very respected
:16:30. > :16:37.figure, ratings up at the moment, it would in some way have a halo
:16:38. > :16:38.effect. Maybe the message carriers need to change. Time is getting
:16:39. > :16:45.short. Thank you very much. Well, you may feel you've heard
:16:46. > :16:48.a lot of the same voices popping up Each side seems to field
:16:49. > :16:51.a smallish squad. But what of the voices
:16:52. > :16:53.from Brussels? There have been increasingly shrill
:16:54. > :16:56.warnings as to what Brexit might German Finance Minister Schauble
:16:57. > :17:00.warned today that Britain would not be able to be in the single
:17:01. > :17:03.market if we vote out. But one British man at the heart
:17:04. > :17:06.of the institutions is the UK's EU Commissioner, Lord Hill,
:17:07. > :17:08.who is responsible for financial I sat down with him to talk though
:17:09. > :17:13.the implications and asked him whether British banks would be able
:17:14. > :17:16.to operate in the single the only way you could then have
:17:17. > :17:28.access to it would either be through
:17:29. > :17:30.something that is called by which the rules that would then
:17:31. > :17:35.be operating in the UK have to be deemed
:17:36. > :17:37.equivalent by the EU, or they would have to go in,
:17:38. > :17:40.each country that they wanted to go in, country by
:17:41. > :17:42.country, rules by rules. Those would be long,
:17:43. > :17:44.uncertain processes. I think they would add cost
:17:45. > :17:46.and that is why, I think, if you take your example
:17:47. > :17:49.of the banks, the banks say very clearly that if we leave,
:17:50. > :17:52.they are going to be cutting jobs. What I know, from having to go
:17:53. > :17:55.through equivalence processes with, say, the United States,
:17:56. > :17:57.where I have recently done one and where I wanted to do it quickly,
:17:58. > :18:01.the Americans wanted to do it quickly and one narrow point,
:18:02. > :18:17.that took four years. Is it your view that the rest
:18:18. > :18:20.of the EU would not take a constructive mind,
:18:21. > :18:22.put a constructive face Are you saying they would play
:18:23. > :18:26.hardball, because that is what some I think that if you put the boot
:18:27. > :18:32.on the other foot and you think of this as it would be,
:18:33. > :18:34.as a straightforward Trade negotiations aren't
:18:35. > :18:37.about love, they are about power. Business negotiations
:18:38. > :18:44.are about power. So if you think that you have,
:18:45. > :18:48.on the one hand, a group of nations who want Britain to stay,
:18:49. > :18:50.we would then say, no, we don't want you, we haven't been
:18:51. > :18:53.particularly flattering in some of the terms we have
:18:54. > :18:55.described some of these countries during the debate,
:18:56. > :18:57.and then we say, OK, now we want you to give us exactly
:18:58. > :19:01.what we want when you want it. I think it is a human reaction
:19:02. > :19:04.when you go through a divorce not then to fall over to give people
:19:05. > :19:07.the thing they are asking for. I think you also have to recognise,
:19:08. > :19:10.in financial services, which is our export industry,
:19:11. > :19:12.biggest contributor to taxation in the UK, that the shape
:19:13. > :19:15.of the financial services industry in France or in Germany is very
:19:16. > :19:17.different from the UK, so the rules that they would come up
:19:18. > :19:20.with would be different from the rules that they come up
:19:21. > :19:28.with with Britain in the EU. Is there the recognition
:19:29. > :19:31.in Brussels, in your view, as someone who has been there now
:19:32. > :19:34.for a couple of years, that the EU has a problem
:19:35. > :19:41.of overextending itself? It signs up for things
:19:42. > :19:43.without filling in the details, like a euro, like a single currency,
:19:44. > :19:47.or a Schengen zone without borders or without a common immigration
:19:48. > :19:49.policy or asylum policy, and then is kind of bewildered,
:19:50. > :19:52.bamboozled, when it all goes wrong ten years down the line,
:19:53. > :19:53.because they haven't actually thought it
:19:54. > :19:59.through when they did it? I think what there is is
:20:00. > :20:02.a recognition that we need to have a more bottom-up
:20:03. > :20:04.approach than before. I mean, personally, it is something
:20:05. > :20:07.I argue for the whole time, a bit less of a grandiose vision,
:20:08. > :20:11.a few less grands projets and a bit more find out what people want,
:20:12. > :20:13.deliver it on the ground, bit by bit, and try
:20:14. > :20:20.and get momentum going. In different countries,
:20:21. > :20:31.people remain committed to the euro and they recognise that Britain
:20:32. > :20:34.is never going to join and I think one of the things that has come out
:20:35. > :20:37.of the settlement that Mr Cameron struck with the other leaders
:20:38. > :20:40.is a better balance between eurozone and non-eurozone countries,
:20:41. > :20:41.so non-eurozone country, UK, our vital interests more safeguarded
:20:42. > :20:43.and eurozone countries, I think we all need them
:20:44. > :21:02.to integrate further. Right, so it is a project,
:21:03. > :21:05.more integration, but Britain is not That gets to one of the other
:21:06. > :21:09.sophisticated critics of the way this is going,
:21:10. > :21:12.that you're going to end up with a very lopsided federation
:21:13. > :21:14.with, let's call it, small Britain on the edge and a kind
:21:15. > :21:17.of union of 400 million members acting in unison called
:21:18. > :21:19.Eurozone, or Euroland. Is that going to work
:21:20. > :21:31.for the British? Well, first of all, I'm not certain
:21:32. > :21:35.that the premise of your question But you just said there
:21:36. > :21:38.is going to be more No, what I said was for the eurozone
:21:39. > :21:43.to work better, there needs to be further progress with banking union
:21:44. > :21:45.and more integration around the eurozone,
:21:46. > :21:47.but it does not follow from that that the argument that some
:21:48. > :21:49.people make, I think, which is that you have,
:21:50. > :21:52.on the one hand, one country, the United Kingdom, with one set
:21:53. > :21:55.of views and on the other, you have 27 countries
:21:56. > :21:57.with a Federalist blueprint in the top of every drawer,
:21:58. > :21:59.who are completely committed to grinding relentless
:22:00. > :22:02.further integration. That is not what it feels
:22:03. > :22:19.like on the ground at all. Now you might remember that last
:22:20. > :22:26.year, Newsnight documented the journeys of two
:22:27. > :22:27.families to this country, refugees from
:22:28. > :22:29.the Syrian civil war. They were in camps in Jordan
:22:30. > :22:31.and were brought here via the official British programme
:22:32. > :22:34.to rescue the most vulnerable people Well, we've been following
:22:35. > :22:37.the fortunes of those families and we have to report that for one
:22:38. > :22:39.of them, The teenage son of that family
:22:40. > :22:43.was in court today, charged with sexually
:22:44. > :22:45.assaulting a 14-year-old girl. It is too early to say very much
:22:46. > :22:48.about the circumstances but John Sweeney has sent us this
:22:49. > :22:55.report from Newcastle. VOICEOVER: How we cope with
:22:56. > :22:58.the refugees from a pitiless war is a test
:22:59. > :23:01.of humanity for Europe causing great stress,
:23:02. > :23:04.both for the politicians The British Government's response
:23:05. > :23:08.was to allow in 20,000 refugees over five years from countries like
:23:09. > :23:12.Jordan, shown here, and Lebanon. The refugees were selected by UNHCR
:23:13. > :23:15.and fast tracked if they were deemed We are proposing that Britain should
:23:16. > :23:20.resettle up to 20,000 Syrian refugees over the rest
:23:21. > :23:22.of this Parliament. In doing so, we will continue
:23:23. > :23:25.to show the world that this country is a country
:23:26. > :23:32.of extraordinary compassion. But at a time when immigration
:23:33. > :23:35.is perhaps the nation's some have warned of the risks
:23:36. > :23:43.of countries taking in large numbers of people
:23:44. > :23:45.from a very different culture. Ukip leader Nigel Farage has drawn
:23:46. > :23:47.widespread criticism this week by raising the spectre of sex
:23:48. > :23:50.attacks by immigrants What's happened is a very large
:23:51. > :23:55.number of young, single males have settled in Germany
:23:56. > :24:00.and in Sweden, who come from cultures
:24:01. > :24:01.where attitudes towards And the issue of how we as a country
:24:02. > :24:09.handle the tension between common humanity and social cohesion has
:24:10. > :24:12.come into focus here in Newcastle. In the Crown Court here today,
:24:13. > :24:14.three young men have been charged with sexual assault
:24:15. > :24:19.against a 14-year-old girl. One of them is also charged
:24:20. > :24:24.with sexually assaulting All the accused have
:24:25. > :24:32.pleaded not guilty. But at least one of those young
:24:33. > :24:35.men is a Syrian refugee on the Government's resettlement
:24:36. > :24:36.programme. People in Newcastle
:24:37. > :24:38.are aware of just how Newsnight has been following
:24:39. > :24:43.the family of one of those His name is Omar, 18,
:24:44. > :24:52.originally from Damascus. The family fled to Jordan,
:24:53. > :24:54.where they were selected by UNHCR to be resettled in Britain,
:24:55. > :24:57.where they have lived A fourth youth aged 16 has also been
:24:58. > :25:12.charged with sexual assault. and a sixth has been
:25:13. > :25:23.released without charges. When this case comes
:25:24. > :25:27.to trial later in the year, and not just by people
:25:28. > :25:30.in the north-east. Its outcome could have serious
:25:31. > :25:32.consequences for the Government's resettlement programme of Syrian
:25:33. > :25:35.refugees and also for the already and we will of course follow
:25:36. > :25:59.developments in that case. It was just as you would
:26:00. > :26:01.have expected He was greeted by crowds lining
:26:02. > :26:06.the streets, his body carried in a black limousine
:26:07. > :26:09.through the streets of his past, They were throwing flowers
:26:10. > :26:11.and chanting his name, some running alongside for segments
:26:12. > :26:13.of the journey. But how do you remember
:26:14. > :26:15.Muhammad Ali? The gentle man struggling
:26:16. > :26:17.with Parkinson's, or the younger, grittier, angrier
:26:18. > :26:18.political campaigner? We saw some of that persona in his
:26:19. > :26:21.interview with Michael Parkinson after beating George Foreman
:26:22. > :26:23.in the most famous boxing match in history,
:26:24. > :26:35.the Rumble in the Jungle. Muhammad Ali! The interview was a
:26:36. > :26:40.glimpse into Muhammad Ali as a performer and as a person. I told
:26:41. > :26:44.him, OK, Sakho, I am backing up, take your best shot, show me
:26:45. > :26:48.something, show me something, kid, you are not doing anything, you
:26:49. > :26:53.ain't got nothing, show me something, you are just a kid! --
:26:54. > :26:57.sucker. At times, he runs rings around Parkinson. Why do you fight
:26:58. > :27:10.people quite obviously not in your class? Like for example, who? Let me
:27:11. > :27:22.put an even better question to you, and... Did you see him... Let me put
:27:23. > :27:26.it another way, er, uh... LAUGHTER Not all of the interview was
:27:27. > :27:34.conducted in good humour. You are a white man, how are you going to get
:27:35. > :27:39.me on the TV and trapped me? Ain't no way, you can't beat me
:27:40. > :27:44.physically, nor mentally. You are really a joke, I am serious, this is
:27:45. > :27:48.a joke. During the at times fraught interview, Muhammad Ali makes
:27:49. > :27:52.controversial statements about race and integration, this is when the
:27:53. > :28:00.topic moved onto miniskirts. What man would want his woman covered up?
:28:01. > :28:05.He can go to work knowing that she is not being chased for her behind
:28:06. > :28:12.parts. I don't think there is any problem... That is because you are
:28:13. > :28:18.white. John Nater... Your nature is not righteous. It is not because I
:28:19. > :28:25.am white and you are black... That is nonsense and you know it. A
:28:26. > :28:26.radical campaigner, and by the time that he died, a national treasure,
:28:27. > :28:39.one man who was joining me now, Chuck D. Do you feel
:28:40. > :28:47.that perhaps the more radical past of Muhammad Ali has been forgotten
:28:48. > :28:50.this week, people like Donald Trump bemoaning his past, I wonder if you
:28:51. > :28:59.think something of his past has been lost? If you cannot talk about
:29:00. > :29:05.racism for a few days, that is truly Muhammad resting at peace, but the
:29:06. > :29:10.reality, it still exists, and especially in the United States of
:29:11. > :29:15.America, you guys over at the BBC, in the UK, you are shaking your head
:29:16. > :29:23.is over what is going on over there. Monstrosity in politics. And a
:29:24. > :29:29.presidential quest going on in the United States. Muhammad Ali, in all
:29:30. > :29:35.walks of life, allowed us to speak and rage against such
:29:36. > :29:38.ridiculousness. The anger and the expressions that he used, a lot of
:29:39. > :29:43.the language you would say is inverse racism, when he talks about
:29:44. > :29:48.whites in very generalising terms, but you think anybody can do that
:29:49. > :29:52.now, even someone who felt there was injustice? Is that kind of language,
:29:53. > :30:00.that kind of behaviour, is that acceptable today? Racism changes, it
:30:01. > :30:04.changes in shape, it changes in regions, it changes its complexions
:30:05. > :30:08.in a lot of different ways. You should speak out when you feel like
:30:09. > :30:20.something is an just out there. Favouring one over another. -- an
:30:21. > :30:26.just. -- unjust. Somebody who feels their faces being stepped on, they
:30:27. > :30:30.should be able to speak out. The answer to racism, when it feels like
:30:31. > :30:34.radiation. There is a lot of different ways in which racism
:30:35. > :30:38.exists, Muhammad Ali, speaking in the 60s and 70s, he took advantage
:30:39. > :30:46.of that voice, he spoke out, people were like, my goodness. When I did
:30:47. > :30:51.it in the 1980s, being a musician, they thought that it was shocking.
:30:52. > :30:55.But we learn from Muhammad Ali, what we have learned is that you need to
:30:56. > :31:01.be able to be beyond yourself if you think there is injustice going on.
:31:02. > :31:07.Use your platform. It was not just a national voice, it was seeing things
:31:08. > :31:13.that were unfair around the planet. That is the way that it should be,
:31:14. > :31:16.when it is not that way, why not speak out? How far do you think
:31:17. > :31:22.America has come from his day, what percentage of the issues that were
:31:23. > :31:28.facing him have now been resolved? There are still problems but how
:31:29. > :31:31.far? 21st-century does not exist in the same way it is it about new
:31:32. > :31:35.things have popped up, you look online, you see a lot of people
:31:36. > :31:41.using the same language that people used 60 years ago, and they say, it
:31:42. > :31:46.is called because it is socially accepted, but it is racially
:31:47. > :31:49.derogatory. That is the seed of a problem. When you see people running
:31:50. > :31:55.for the presidency of the United States and they talk about groupings
:31:56. > :32:01.of people like they are inferior... That is a problem. That guy got a
:32:02. > :32:07.public platform. You see racism behind closed doors. We as artists,
:32:08. > :32:11.entertainers, athletes, we learn from Muhammad Ali, in the 1960s, we
:32:12. > :32:20.speak out against that, we go further back, to people like Harry
:32:21. > :32:27.Belafonte and Paul Robeson to transcend ourselves. Taking
:32:28. > :32:35.advantage of the opportunity for the few to speak for the many.
:32:36. > :32:41.That is all we have time for, but we do leave you with the news that
:32:42. > :32:45.veteran crooner and no longer forever young Rod Stewart has been
:32:46. > :32:48.given a knighthood. In the New Year 's Honours list. Good night.
:32:49. > :32:55.Europe in just a moment but here at home, a messy picture.
:32:56. > :33:02.Showers from the word go, it will not take much sunshine and warmth to
:33:03. > :33:03.develop more showers during the day and some could be heavy