:00:00. > :00:12.APPLAUSE I don't often wear my heart on why
:00:13. > :00:18.sleeve, I just get on with the job in front of me. APPLAUSE
:00:19. > :00:24.What is your message for Michael Gove? What is your message for
:00:25. > :00:29.Michael Gove? Having consulted colleagues, in view of the
:00:30. > :00:30.circumstances in Parliament, I have concluded that the person cannot be
:00:31. > :00:43.me. Boris negotiating Europe, last time
:00:44. > :00:50.he did a deal with the Germans, he came back with three nearly new
:00:51. > :00:54.water cannon... (!) LAUGHTER There is lots of talented people who
:00:55. > :01:00.could be Prime Minister after David Cameron, but count me out. I don't
:01:01. > :01:04.want to be Prime Minister. I could not be Prime Minister. I know that I
:01:05. > :01:08.could not do it. I am not equipped to be Prime Minister. I don't want
:01:09. > :01:11.to be a minister. I came reluctantly but firmly to the conclusion that I
:01:12. > :01:24.should stand and Boris should stand aside.
:01:25. > :01:30.You don't need me to recount the events of the day,
:01:31. > :01:33.suffice to say that we've had more remarkable twists,
:01:34. > :01:35.in a week that was already liable to cause motion sickness.
:01:36. > :01:39.Tory MP Jake Berry who was backing Boris, tweeted:
:01:40. > :01:44."There is a very deep pit reserved in Hell
:01:45. > :01:45.for such as he. #gove."
:01:46. > :01:47.Now, you know how in conversation, men sometimes dominate
:01:48. > :01:51.Well, the stage has been dominated by men.
:01:52. > :01:58.For a couple of years it was about Boris vs Osborne.
:01:59. > :02:01.And yet it's now Theresa May who has quietly become the front runner.
:02:02. > :02:05.The bookies have her down as the new favourite.
:02:06. > :02:07.That's not always a good place to be, by the way.
:02:08. > :02:11.But we'll have more on her and the Conservative Party
:02:12. > :02:13.in the programme, first though, the story of what has happened
:02:14. > :02:19.Here's our political editor, Nick Watt.
:02:20. > :02:25.VOICEOVER: They were the two big political beasts who were going to
:02:26. > :02:29.remake Britain's place in the world after an intense month together on
:02:30. > :02:33.the road, instead, within the space of just two hours, their
:02:34. > :02:39.relationship disintegrated and the race to succeed David Cameron was
:02:40. > :02:46.turned on its head. Boris Johnson has been the frontrunner among
:02:47. > :02:51.Brexit Tories during the referendum campaign but in a sign of how he was
:02:52. > :02:55.leaving no stone unturned, he dined with Paul Dacre at this discreet
:02:56. > :02:59.Mayfair club earlier this month, he knew that if he was going to win the
:03:00. > :03:05.contest, he had to win over the bible of Middle England. All seem to
:03:06. > :03:10.be going swimmingly, with Boris Johnson's plan for number ten as
:03:11. > :03:14.recently as yesterday afternoon. In an office tucked away in this
:03:15. > :03:18.building, on the Parliamentary estate, Michael Gove's long-standing
:03:19. > :03:23.friend, Nick Boles, was briefing the Boris team on the speech for his
:03:24. > :03:29.campaign launch. But by this morning, he had a new job, campaign
:03:30. > :03:34.manager for Michael Gove. Later that afternoon, an e-mail sent by Sarah
:03:35. > :03:38.Vine, to her husband, one Michael Gove, was mysteriously leaked to the
:03:39. > :03:47.press... (!)... Giving us the first hint that all was not well in team
:03:48. > :03:51.Johnson Gove. The canary in the mine was the leaked e-mail, from
:03:52. > :03:56.yesterday, a friend of mine e-mailed me and said, is Michael standing? I
:03:57. > :04:01.e-mailed back, naively, as it turned out, saying I did not think he was.
:04:02. > :04:05.The Boris Johnson campaign had seemed to be on such a smooth flight
:04:06. > :04:09.path that the Sun newspaper printed an article overnight by the Justice
:04:10. > :04:18.Minister, hailing his political qualities. It is 6am, Thursday, 30th
:04:19. > :04:25.of June... A fellow Johnson ally had been expecting to cheer Dominic Ryan
:04:26. > :04:30.on during a two-day show interview, but he was rudely interrupted with a
:04:31. > :04:36.surprise request as he stepped out of the shower. I had a call at
:04:37. > :04:39.5:45am, asking if I would step in and do the today programme with John
:04:40. > :04:45.Humphrys, because Dominic had pulled out, I had no idea why this
:04:46. > :04:50.happens... At such a late stage, Michael and Boris have been working
:04:51. > :04:55.together for three months, stuck in a big bus, going around the country
:04:56. > :04:59.together... You were due to do the today programme and you pulled out.
:05:00. > :05:03.Absolutely, there is an element of this which is fast, people can have
:05:04. > :05:08.their 24 hours, 48 hours, and when the dust settles, you have a choice,
:05:09. > :05:11.candidates here will stand and leave the country, not just the
:05:12. > :05:16.Conservative Party. The question is, what do you want? Shortly before
:05:17. > :05:22.9am, Michael Gove addressed his new campaign team, in his ministerial
:05:23. > :05:24.office in Westminster. Even long-standing friends thought they
:05:25. > :05:30.were attending a Boris Johnson campaign team meeting. I was very
:05:31. > :05:34.surprised by the announcement by Michael, I was not expecting it, and
:05:35. > :05:38.about two minutes before he walked into the room I thought, something
:05:39. > :05:43.is up, this is not quite normal, I thought it was a meeting to get me
:05:44. > :05:52.onto Boris's team. The minute he stood up I knew that I was -- he was
:05:53. > :05:53.in. At 9:02am, Michael Gove's team announced to the press that he was
:05:54. > :06:10.standing for the leadership. Overnight, the Justice Secretary had
:06:11. > :06:16.alerted allies of his decision, just as Boris was out making merry, not a
:06:17. > :06:22.word was said to him or his team. I had no idea, when I got back to the
:06:23. > :06:27.campaign headquarters, it started coming on the wires, none of us
:06:28. > :06:31.knew... Boris did not know... After the bombshell from Michael Gove,
:06:32. > :06:35.senior members of the Boris Johnson team hit the phones in their
:06:36. > :06:40.campaign office to shore up support. At 11:20am, the former London Mayor
:06:41. > :06:43.telephoned an ally, to say that he was abandoning his leadership bid
:06:44. > :06:49.with the words, " I don't want to divide the party, I don't want to do
:06:50. > :06:54.any Jeremy Corbyn". Other members of the team were kept in the dark until
:06:55. > :07:01.Johnson spoke. I remember thinking, the longer he is, the less likely he
:07:02. > :07:07.will be a candidate, if you are a candidate, you want to push your
:07:08. > :07:12.message, get out there. We waited 20 minutes, and that made me think
:07:13. > :07:17.perhaps he would withdraw. It was a strong speech, interesting, but it's
:07:18. > :07:21.lacked energy. I think that was the tell-tale sign. Good morning,
:07:22. > :07:26.everybody, thank you very much. World and, as to what happened
:07:27. > :07:32.between five past nine, last night, when I got a message from Michael's
:07:33. > :07:38.team, to this morning, shock, obviously... Michael Gove knows that
:07:39. > :07:41.he stands guilty on two counts of treachery, running a referendum
:07:42. > :07:46.campaign which brought down his one-time friend, David Cameron, and
:07:47. > :07:49.abandoning his old friend, Boris Johnson, allies insist he followed
:07:50. > :07:56.his conscience to withdraw support from someone who is simply not up to
:07:57. > :07:58.the job of Prime Minister. I don't think people should read into this
:07:59. > :08:04.some long-term Machiavellian strategy. I think that he agonised.
:08:05. > :08:09.You genuinely think that this was a process? He has never set out with
:08:10. > :08:14.the ambition to become Prime Minister, he is making this bid now,
:08:15. > :08:17.and he wants to be Prime Minister now because he thinks that the right
:08:18. > :08:21.person, he has looked at alternatives and does not think that
:08:22. > :08:25.Boris Johnson is the alternative. Final straw for Michael Gove came
:08:26. > :08:31.when Boris Johnson failed to live up to a commitment to guarantee a
:08:32. > :08:35.senior campaign post to the energy minister, and Brexit campaigner,
:08:36. > :08:39.Andrea Leadsom. Michael Gove believe this disqualified him from standing
:08:40. > :08:48.as Prime Minister, on the grounds that he was a bit cavalier with his
:08:49. > :08:52.allies or could not keep his word. Michael Gove now believes that his
:08:53. > :08:55.hour has come, but one friend has said that he knows that he has got
:08:56. > :09:00.to knock it out of the park tomorrow morning at his campaign launch if he
:09:01. > :09:02.is to stand a chance against his archfoe, Theresa May. What about
:09:03. > :09:07.Boris? STUDIO: We have with us
:09:08. > :09:09.a panel of Tory members. The most powerful people
:09:10. > :09:22.in the country right now. We should run down the road,
:09:23. > :09:26.starting with you, who you are backing at this point? I am backing
:09:27. > :09:31.Theresa May because I believe that she is a unifying candidate for the
:09:32. > :09:38.party and the country. I agree with John, she is unifying. She is the
:09:39. > :09:41.only person who is going to be good at being Prime Minister and she is a
:09:42. > :09:46.tough negotiator. She looked the part today. Come on then, who are
:09:47. > :09:52.you backing? Andrea Leadsom, she is the only character with -- candidate
:09:53. > :09:58.with the toughness required, based on the mandate voted for last week.
:09:59. > :10:02.Michael Gove is my man, he has conviction, competence, and also, I
:10:03. > :10:07.would like to see next leader come from the vote Leave campaign. Who
:10:08. > :10:11.were you backing yesterday? Good question...! LAUGHTER
:10:12. > :10:17.Boris Johnson. So you went from Boris. In the hope there would be a
:10:18. > :10:21.deal with Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. I am undecided, it is early
:10:22. > :10:26.days, I want to see what contenders can offer, not just that the party
:10:27. > :10:30.but for the country. We will come back to you all at the end of the
:10:31. > :10:35.programme, I will be interested to see if you hear anything that
:10:36. > :10:38.changes your mind. Is it edifying, are you impressed by what you have
:10:39. > :10:43.seen? We love the drama, house of cards, but is it edifying? I don't
:10:44. > :10:46.think anybody in the country would think it is, it has been like an
:10:47. > :10:50.astonishing pantomime and that is why it is so important that we unify
:10:51. > :10:55.behind a tough candidate, one who shows leadership qualities, who can
:10:56. > :11:01.draw us together, and make sure that we do not do what the Labour Party
:11:02. > :11:06.does right now. You, as journalists, you think it is quite fun, people
:11:07. > :11:09.dropping like flies, everyone gossiping, standing... But actually,
:11:10. > :11:14.in the country, I think people are really angry. The winds from the
:11:15. > :11:25.referendum have not at all been solved by this. The more this goes
:11:26. > :11:28.on, the worse this is. Show of hands, how many of you are annoyed
:11:29. > :11:32.that you will not get a chance to vote for Boris, he will not be a
:11:33. > :11:39.candidate. I would like to have had him on the ballot, because he would
:11:40. > :11:42.have emphasised a politics which no other politician can offer at the
:11:43. > :11:47.moment. We will come back to you at the end of the programme.
:11:48. > :11:51.It's a paradox, but while today has been one of the Tories messiest,
:11:52. > :11:53.the in-fighting and backbiting does appear mainly personal now,
:11:54. > :11:55.Deeply personal. Four-letter word personal.
:11:56. > :11:58.not among the five leadership candidates anyway.
:11:59. > :12:01.Look at what they are actually saying, and you discern a certain
:12:02. > :12:03.unity that we've forgotten the Conservative party
:12:04. > :12:07.It may not last, it may not suit some of the old guard,
:12:08. > :12:09.but it was all there in Theresa May's
:12:10. > :12:13.For one thing, she and the others appear to be putting their ghastly
:12:14. > :12:25.She the Remainer, yielding to Leave.
:12:26. > :12:36.Turnout was high, the public gave their verdict.
:12:37. > :12:39.There are voices that don't agree, but it's not much of an issue
:12:40. > :12:42.Then there's another refrain you're hearing,
:12:43. > :12:43.that it's time to have an elite weakening,
:12:44. > :12:47.opportunity supporting, class-ridding capitalism.
:12:48. > :12:53.Because Britain still needs a government capable of delivering a
:12:54. > :12:55.programme of serious social reform, and realising a vision of a country
:12:56. > :12:59.that truly works for everyone. All that austerity stuff, you know,
:13:00. > :13:04.getting borrowing down, everything the party has been
:13:05. > :13:06.doing for six years. Well, it was looking difficult,
:13:07. > :13:10.so now's an opportunity to junk it. We should no longer seek
:13:11. > :13:12.to reduce a budget surplus If before 2020 there
:13:13. > :13:18.is a choice between spending, further spending cuts,
:13:19. > :13:20.more borrowing and tax rises, the priority must be
:13:21. > :13:22.to avoid tax increases, since they will disrupt consumption,
:13:23. > :13:28.employment and investment. I suspect other candidates
:13:29. > :13:37.will follow suit Theresa May and the others are
:13:38. > :13:44.sounding broadly aligned. Now, what about
:13:45. > :13:46.Theresa May the person? She has risen to front runner status
:13:47. > :13:49.by doing everything She's not the most personable
:13:50. > :13:51.of candidates, she doesn't butter
:13:52. > :13:53.up the backbenchers in the teabar. She's not the charismatic
:13:54. > :13:55.communicator that Boris Johnson is, Her line is that she gets
:13:56. > :13:59.on with the job. It was the first track
:14:00. > :14:14.she chose when she appeared but Theresa May has never felt
:14:15. > :14:19.she had to walk like a man Today the bookie's favourite to be
:14:20. > :14:24.Tory leader launched her bid
:14:25. > :14:26.to become the second ever I don't gossip about people over
:14:27. > :14:35.lunch, I don't go drinking
:14:36. > :14:37.in Parliament's bars. I don't often wear my
:14:38. > :14:39.heart on my sleeve. I just get on with the job
:14:40. > :14:42.in front of me. and I think I'm the best person to
:14:43. > :14:47.be Prime Minister of this country. Well, Theresa has never played
:14:48. > :14:50.by what people have come to regard as the normal rules
:14:51. > :14:52.of politics, doing favours, She's always been absolutely
:14:53. > :14:57.straightforward saying, "I've got a job to do,
:14:58. > :15:00.I'll get on with that job and I'll do it to
:15:01. > :15:05.the best of my ability And in a sense it's the way
:15:06. > :15:11.politicians used to operate before An anti-politician then,
:15:12. > :15:20.and the ultimate survivor. Her first foray into public
:15:21. > :15:23.consciousness came with a speech to Tory conference
:15:24. > :15:25.is a really nonentity. -- to Tory conference
:15:26. > :15:27.as a really nonentity. You know what some people call us?
:15:28. > :15:30.The nasty party. It was a watershed moment
:15:31. > :15:32.in the attempts to break with her party's toxic past,
:15:33. > :15:34.although not everyone Theresa May doesn't yearn to be
:15:35. > :15:44.liked, but that didn't stop her rising up the ranks under
:15:45. > :15:48.various Conservative leaders. Her reputation is as a conscientious
:15:49. > :15:53.hard worker, who put As the longest serving
:15:54. > :15:57.Home Secretary in 50 years, she's championed gay marriage
:15:58. > :15:58.and other progressive causes, but also the likes
:15:59. > :16:05.of the snooper's charter. There have been riots on her watch
:16:06. > :16:08.and she has presided over the failed But it's her stand-off
:16:09. > :16:11.with the police that's If you do not change
:16:12. > :16:15.of your own accord, I think that slight straightforward
:16:16. > :16:25.way has actually won her a lot of fans from MPs who have only
:16:26. > :16:29.known her really as Home Secretary. Previous home secretaries have had
:16:30. > :16:32.all sorts of things going on, but she's not shied away
:16:33. > :16:34.from the hard things. May has been compared with Angela
:16:35. > :16:36.Merkel. Both have an immense grasp
:16:37. > :16:38.of detail, both take In her bid to be leader,
:16:39. > :16:44.May has already dropped her long-standing opposition
:16:45. > :16:45.to the European Convention on human rights, to appeal
:16:46. > :16:49.to the party's liberal wing. Her position during the referendum
:16:50. > :16:51.also appears pragmatic. On the Remain side,
:16:52. > :16:57.but remaining aloof. Far be it from me to interfere
:16:58. > :16:59.with the Tory leadership campaign, we've got enough problems
:17:00. > :17:02.of our own. But I think she's played it very
:17:03. > :17:06.cannily in her own interests in terms of the European referendum
:17:07. > :17:15.campaign, by keeping a low profile. We are in an era where people
:17:16. > :17:26.are both sick of flamboyant politics, as we've known it,
:17:27. > :17:28.even when they are She may be able to benefit from that
:17:29. > :17:35.anti-politics, as we've known it, the low-key,
:17:36. > :17:37.the slightly more reserved and more
:17:38. > :17:38.thoughtful aspects. If she does become Conservative
:17:39. > :17:42.leader, Theresa May will have done it without playing by the normally
:17:43. > :17:45.accepted rules of politics. It will make her the first
:17:46. > :17:48.Home Secretary since Winston Churchill to
:17:49. > :18:02.reach the very top. Reports suggest Theresa May is
:18:03. > :18:07.exhausting to negotiate with. There is suggestions David Cameron avoided
:18:08. > :18:09.confrontations with his Home Secretary. But those skills may
:18:10. > :18:14.appear useful as the exit looms. A quick look now, at what we think
:18:15. > :18:19.the state of play is in terms of MPs Andrea Leadsome on 14,
:18:20. > :18:31.and Gove on 12. Well, I'm joined now
:18:32. > :18:44.by the Cabinet Office Who are you going to support? Anyone
:18:45. > :18:48.who has watched the news knows we are in incredibly difficult times
:18:49. > :18:52.and we need somebody with a steady hand, who has proven leadership
:18:53. > :18:59.credentials. So I will be backing Theresa May. Why not Michael Gove? I
:19:00. > :19:07.go back a long way with Michael. Exactly. He is a brilliant man, but
:19:08. > :19:11.given everything that has happened over the past week, especially, we
:19:12. > :19:17.need somebody who is steady and steadfast, determined. And over six
:19:18. > :19:21.years at the Home Office, one of the most successful home secretaries in
:19:22. > :19:28.history, you could argue, I think Theresa May is the person, right
:19:29. > :19:32.now, to provide that stability. You have told us, this hasn't been
:19:33. > :19:38.announced before you got here, have you spoken to George Osborne about
:19:39. > :19:43.your decision to back Theresa May? I did tell him. I would have supported
:19:44. > :19:48.George had he ran. He decided not to. Each day that passes, I think
:19:49. > :19:55.the country, more and more, is looking for stability and certainty
:19:56. > :20:01.and a clear way forward. She has got the leadership. She is also she
:20:02. > :20:06.comes from the same sort of one Nation heritage that I care deeply
:20:07. > :20:11.about. We saw that in the package, I thought. We are interested in what
:20:12. > :20:15.you think, but also interested in what George Osborne things. When you
:20:16. > :20:20.said you were backing Theresa May, did he look pleased, interested
:20:21. > :20:25.first remark he hasn't declared yet. Other than saying he is not running
:20:26. > :20:30.himself. Michael Gove says it should be a Brexiteer, given the vote last
:20:31. > :20:36.week, what do you think of that argument? What Theresa May can do is
:20:37. > :20:41.bring the party together, she can provide the unity. There are five
:20:42. > :20:46.candidates, out of all of them, she is best placed to bring, not a party
:20:47. > :20:51.together, but also the country together. I thought the speech today
:20:52. > :20:55.was a good example of that, making sure the economy works for
:20:56. > :20:57.everybody. We have had this incredibly difficult and divisive
:20:58. > :21:02.referendum campaign. A very close results. Questions over whether the
:21:03. > :21:06.economic recovery is reaching all parts of the country and whether
:21:07. > :21:11.people who are disrupted, have been disrupted by new technology and
:21:12. > :21:20.globalisation. I think she can deliver on that agenda. Brexit means
:21:21. > :21:27.Brexit. You were a remainder, she was a remainder, but you all laxity
:21:28. > :21:31.is now. Does that mean people who feel passionately about Remain, and
:21:32. > :21:36.it is more important than the difference between Labour and Tory,
:21:37. > :21:40.should now assume there is no place for them thinking of voting Tory?
:21:41. > :21:48.The Tory is a sceptic party, don't vote Tory if you want to remain. We
:21:49. > :21:53.are clear that we accept the decision of the British people. I
:21:54. > :21:58.argued for Remain. If there was reform in Europe of some kind, can
:21:59. > :22:03.you imagine the Tory party going back and saying, let's think about
:22:04. > :22:07.this again? Suppose they gave us a really bad deal, could you imagine
:22:08. > :22:16.saying, this is not good, let's go back in. You have got to respect the
:22:17. > :22:23.will of the people. If you were a remainder, the Tory party is not for
:22:24. > :22:27.you? We and the Labour Party all voted for this referendum. When you
:22:28. > :22:31.vote for a referendum, I am a Democrat before anything else. She
:22:32. > :22:36.gave a big chunk of her launch statement to the need to break class
:22:37. > :22:40.barriers and increase social mobility and opportunity. I wonder
:22:41. > :22:44.if you could take that as a criticism. Because haven't you been
:22:45. > :22:48.doing everything to break down barriers and create opportunity? It
:22:49. > :22:55.shows there is so much more to be done. It is an area I have been
:22:56. > :23:01.working on in government and I think we have made some progress. I think
:23:02. > :23:04.the referendum result demonstrated there is clearly more to do.
:23:05. > :23:08.Tackling issues around social mobility are incredibly important.
:23:09. > :23:18.It is the kind of Conservative Party I want to be in and that is the kind
:23:19. > :23:24.of Conservative Party leader I want. How upset are you that she said
:23:25. > :23:28.essentially, abandon the fiscal targets. The last election was
:23:29. > :23:33.fought on those fiscal targets. A lot of people said they are not
:23:34. > :23:38.achievable, or not worth achieving and a year in, we have had the
:23:39. > :23:43.target abandoned. Circumstances have changed. How? We have just voted to
:23:44. > :23:50.leave the European Union. But he won't even committed to being in at
:23:51. > :23:54.that point, he must have planned for this? Government policy was to stay
:23:55. > :23:59.in. We warned in advance. Government policy wasn't to stay in? Yes it
:24:00. > :24:06.was, government Wallasey in the run-up to the referendum... No,
:24:07. > :24:12.run-up to the election. There was a deficit target that has now been
:24:13. > :24:17.abandoned. You can pick at the semantics, but something huge has
:24:18. > :24:21.changed, we have voted to leave the European Union. I have said before
:24:22. > :24:25.that, as did many respected independent forecasters, the impact
:24:26. > :24:31.of that is likely to be negative for the taxpayer and the fiscal numbers.
:24:32. > :24:37.It is perfectly reasonable, when that has happened, and that wasn't
:24:38. > :24:43.part of the plans, the plans were to stay in, you have to look at the
:24:44. > :24:52.fiscal picture again. It is not a problem at all for my support of
:24:53. > :24:58.Theresa May. I am a fiscal conservative, I want to deal with
:24:59. > :25:00.the deficit. But you have got to change when the circumstances
:25:01. > :25:03.change. Thank you very much indeed. To stab one colleague in the back
:25:04. > :25:05.looks unfortunate. To stab two, looks
:25:06. > :25:06.like ruthlessness. But that is what
:25:07. > :25:08.Michael Gove has done. He abandoned David Cameron
:25:09. > :25:10.and opposed him in the referendum, and then Mr Gove abandoned
:25:11. > :25:11.Boris Johnson with but a few The treachery tag may
:25:12. > :25:14.stick to Mr Gove - it did to Ed Miliband for example
:25:15. > :25:16.for what he did to his brother. But it might be that Gove is just
:25:17. > :25:17.a conviction politician, who can't help but stand
:25:18. > :25:19.by what he believes, Chris Cook looks at the man
:25:20. > :25:32.and his beliefs. I believe the people should have the
:25:33. > :25:40.choice to be members of a union. Michael Gove has a slightly sure
:25:41. > :25:46.we're past than most politicians. As a younger man, he tried his hand at
:25:47. > :25:52.comedy. He is neither a spectator columnist or a sociologist, he an
:25:53. > :25:57.armed robber. Some of Michael Gove's university friends told me they
:25:58. > :26:03.didn't expect him to be a politician. They thought he would be
:26:04. > :26:07.a Scottish Stephen Fry. He has an instinct to provoke, and entertain.
:26:08. > :26:11.His officials and advisers still say his desire to be interesting above
:26:12. > :26:17.all, sometimes gets him into scrapes. Or, just total weirdness.
:26:18. > :26:25.My favourite character in a game of thrones is... Hey everybody take a
:26:26. > :26:34.look at me I have street credibility. As Education Secretary
:26:35. > :26:44.he drove massive reforms. Michael Gove, the demented Dalek of speed.
:26:45. > :26:51.After a brief spell as Chief Whip, he has used his tenure as Justice
:26:52. > :26:55.Secretary to shake up prisons. Michael is committed to the issues
:26:56. > :27:01.of aspiration, social justice, the things I care about. I want to see
:27:02. > :27:05.that with the next leader of the Conservative Party and Prime
:27:06. > :27:15.Minister. Is he a detail man? He is all over detail, I looked at the way
:27:16. > :27:20.he conducted himself in Cabinet and the Prime prison reforms, I think he
:27:21. > :27:24.is the right person for the task. One area Mr Gove has some
:27:25. > :27:28.distinctive use is the Northern Irish peace process. In 2000 he
:27:29. > :27:32.wrote a pamphlet for the CPS in which he argued their approach to
:27:33. > :27:39.Republican terrorist reminded him of appeasement in the 1930s. He wrote a
:27:40. > :27:44.book in which he argued Islamist terrorists had been encouraged by
:27:45. > :27:47.the way Britain had dealt with Northern Ireland. Looking at this
:27:48. > :27:54.pamphlet he wrote in 2000, it is further out than the DUP. He accuses
:27:55. > :27:59.the Good Friday agreement of being appeasement and suggests we rip it
:28:00. > :28:05.up and go back to fighting the IRA. It is awhile taught. Is Northern
:28:06. > :28:12.Ireland likely to be in issue in the coming years? I have just been in
:28:13. > :28:17.Northern Ireland and it is a bit tense. The outcome of the
:28:18. > :28:21.referendum, when Northern Ireland voted to remain, means people have
:28:22. > :28:27.been on edge. Cabinet colleagues of Michael Gove say he is a hardliner
:28:28. > :28:32.on this issue, as he is on Islamist extremism. He is a neo-conservative,
:28:33. > :28:37.in favour of the Iraq war. He attacked the Daily Mail's coolness
:28:38. > :28:44.on it. In foreign affairs and other areas of life, if we were to follow
:28:45. > :28:48.the Daily Mail's advice, we would be heading for disaster. But this week,
:28:49. > :28:51.a leaked e-mail from his wife thought they could win over the
:28:52. > :28:59.editor of the Daily Mail. Wrongly, it has emerged this evening. He has
:29:00. > :29:03.gone for Theresa May. The leaked e-mail suggested I could get the
:29:04. > :29:08.support of Rupert Murdoch. Official documents showed Mr Gove, a former
:29:09. > :29:12.employee of Rupert Murdoch has met with the executives. And they met at
:29:13. > :29:16.a recent wedding and Mr Murdoch suggested Michael Gove should run,
:29:17. > :29:22.this week. It is observed and it is true that Michael Gove is personally
:29:23. > :29:26.courteous. But there is a wrinkle. It is very striking people who cause
:29:27. > :29:28.Mr Gove personal difficulty, often face vitriolic press coverage
:29:29. > :29:33.shortly afterwards. That applies whether you are a Cabinet minister,
:29:34. > :29:40.like Caroline Spelman or Philip Hammond, or a journalist like me. In
:29:41. > :29:45.2011, I was the education reporter at the Financial Times. I reported
:29:46. > :29:49.Michael Gove had been using his white's personal e-mail account for
:29:50. > :29:54.public business. It kept information at the hands of officials he didn't
:29:55. > :29:58.trust, and a wave of Freedom of information requests. I got a wave
:29:59. > :30:01.of nasty, personal press comments by friends of Michael Gove, and
:30:02. > :30:05.anonymous Twitter accounts repeatedly abused me and attempts
:30:06. > :30:11.were made to get the company that owns the Financial Times, to fire
:30:12. > :30:16.me. Michael Gove has less polite people on hand. Dominic Cummings,
:30:17. > :30:24.his most aggressive aid and a former bigwig invoked Leave. I would
:30:25. > :30:30.characterise Michael Gove as being a radical conservative. It is easy to
:30:31. > :30:35.think of him as very much in the same stable as David Cameron. They
:30:36. > :30:38.became part of this compassionate, modernising force in the
:30:39. > :30:43.Conservative Party. But what I have learned working with and seeing
:30:44. > :30:47.Michael's activities and views over a sustained period of time, is he
:30:48. > :30:52.and the Prime Minister are very different individuals. The Prime
:30:53. > :30:58.Minister is a small sea Conservative and Michael Gove is a radical. Say
:30:59. > :31:01.what you like, but life under Michael Gove's Premiership wouldn't
:31:02. > :31:09.be dull. STUDIO: Well, I'm joined now by two
:31:10. > :31:13.Mps who until this morning were both Now that he's out, Jacob Rees-Mogg
:31:14. > :31:16.has switched to Michael Gove, while Nadhim Zahawi is now backing
:31:17. > :31:29.Theresa May. what do you think of his behaviour
:31:30. > :31:31.this morning? i think that he has changed his mind, i think that
:31:32. > :31:35.politicians ought to change their mind and announce it to the public,
:31:36. > :31:40.what he has done is extremely rave, it came late in the day, nobody in
:31:41. > :31:44.their right mind would have plotted it this way, so i am convinced it is
:31:45. > :31:53.genuine, came to aching delusion, told everybody, he will be an
:31:54. > :31:57.excellent prime minister. michael has been a great campaigner for the
:31:58. > :32:00.vote leave campaign, huge talent, the bit you have missed out...
:32:01. > :32:10.prison reform, it is incredibly valuable. I was shocked, this
:32:11. > :32:14.morning, 9:05pm, last night. His special adviser saying, we are all
:32:15. > :32:25.on, looking forward to seeing you for Boris's launch. Does it matter?
:32:26. > :32:28.It does not, we move on. Why are you supporting him, he has made a
:32:29. > :32:32.difficult decision, to push his friend out of the way but if he is
:32:33. > :32:37.still a better leader, why would you not support him? As you have heard
:32:38. > :32:40.from my co-author, Matt Hancock, Paymaster General, the leader should
:32:41. > :32:44.be someone who can unite the country, 17 million people voted
:32:45. > :32:47.out, there should be somebody who could deliver for those people
:32:48. > :32:51.especially those on the national living wage, who were hurt by
:32:52. > :32:55.freedom of movement but also those who can govern for the 48% who want
:32:56. > :32:59.to remain. What that means for me, for the people who wanted to remain,
:33:00. > :33:03.they want to see the economy being robust and strong and a settlement
:33:04. > :33:08.with Europe. Theresa May called me in, I met with her today, she
:33:09. > :33:19.reassured me that the negotiating team will be led by Brexiteers and
:33:20. > :33:23.she has the steely resolve that she wants to get a deal, she is stubborn
:33:24. > :33:27.enough to do that and get a deal on the economy. She can unite the
:33:28. > :33:33.membership. In Stratford-upon-Avon, he told me, that they are
:33:34. > :33:38.overwhelmingly behind it. Why are you picking Michael Gove? In some
:33:39. > :33:42.ways, he does not look the winner that Theresa May does, not quite
:33:43. > :33:46.unify. I have always thought that Michael Gove would be an excellent
:33:47. > :33:49.candidate and a brilliant Prime Minister, I encouraged him to stand
:33:50. > :33:54.early on, before he had decided not to. It is natural for me to support
:33:55. > :34:01.him now, it is essential that the new leader supported leave. You are
:34:02. > :34:05.rolling out half the party, basically? I am, this is a very big
:34:06. > :34:08.decision that the British electorate have made, it needs to be in the
:34:09. > :34:14.hands of someone they can trust you really believe that leave is what we
:34:15. > :34:20.want. -- ruling out. There will be some compromises that must be made
:34:21. > :34:24.with European Union. The issue about treachery is clearly going to be
:34:25. > :34:29.around him, hanging around him. Your party used it against Ed Miliband in
:34:30. > :34:35.the general election... That was against his brother. You did it
:34:36. > :34:40.against Ed Miliband. That is against his brother, fraternal infighting is
:34:41. > :34:44.different from someone who says as a matter of principle, I think the
:34:45. > :34:49.leader I was going to support is not going to be successful. They have
:34:50. > :34:53.known each other for 30 years. Do you think the treachery tag will
:34:54. > :34:57.hang around? People will draw their own conclusions, they spent three
:34:58. > :35:08.months with Boris on the bus going up and down the country, came on
:35:09. > :35:19.board as soon as the result was known, to chair the campaign. Boris
:35:20. > :35:36.had very little notice. Now we have five strong candidates.
:35:37. > :35:43.It would have been idiotic to plan it that way, he's correctness in
:35:44. > :35:48.doing it is assumed by the reverse, that if he had decided to back a
:35:49. > :35:51.candidate in whom he no longer have confidence, that would be letting
:35:52. > :35:54.the country down, once he has come to that conclusion, he had to
:35:55. > :35:59.announce it, however late, however personally inconvenient, and chosen
:36:00. > :36:04.to be a man of considerable strength.
:36:05. > :36:05.So what's the story with Boris Johnson?
:36:06. > :36:08.In his lively journey over the years, the rise, the fall,
:36:09. > :36:10.the next rise, the latest fall, he has exposed something,
:36:11. > :36:12.how stale many other politicians are, in projecting
:36:13. > :36:16.The jovial persona appealed to many, but perhaps there is
:36:17. > :36:19.That you can only go so far with the antics,
:36:20. > :36:33.For those who see Westminster populated by identical cutouts, Oris
:36:34. > :36:37.Johnson did not just stand out, he dwarfed many more senior
:36:38. > :36:41.politicians, there is now a Boris Johnson shaped hole in the
:36:42. > :36:46.Conservative leadership campaign and, who knows, perhaps in politics
:36:47. > :36:49.as well. The crimes he has the most astonishing ability to communicate
:36:50. > :36:52.with the wider public, to carry them with him, on television and even if
:36:53. > :36:57.he walks into a shopping centre, most politicians, they would be
:36:58. > :37:02.irritated by someone in a shopping centre, if they are on their way to
:37:03. > :37:06.the chemist, but Boris transforms the atmosphere, at least until the
:37:07. > :37:12.last few days. Even the people who regarded him as a clown found him
:37:13. > :37:19.entertaining. In that respect he was a bigger figure than anybody else in
:37:20. > :37:23.British politics. Are you going to upstage the Prime Minister? The
:37:24. > :37:26.cameras would have been drawn to Oris in a room full of rock stars
:37:27. > :37:30.and models, other mere politicians never stood a chance and for
:37:31. > :37:38.political journalists, desperate for something interesting to report
:37:39. > :37:46.upon, he was the mother load. We haven't had a story all week, help
:37:47. > :37:50.us! Say something ill considered. I speak round, unvarnished
:37:51. > :37:53.common-sense! Boris did not disappoint, except those he worked
:37:54. > :37:58.for, party leaders found him unmanageable, distracting, he could
:37:59. > :38:02.shred the meticulously formulated newsgroup with a raffle of his
:38:03. > :38:09.health. What do you do with a problem like Boris? He has strong
:38:10. > :38:11.views about lots of things... David Cameron's predecessor, Michael
:38:12. > :38:16.Howard, had fired Boris Johnson from a junior French French job for lying
:38:17. > :38:21.about an affair, Cameron offered his former school friend redemption in
:38:22. > :38:28.municipal politics. -- from a junior front bench job. Are we ready? Yes
:38:29. > :38:32.we are! As London mayor during the Olympics, Oris Johnson went
:38:33. > :38:38.international, seen by his party as very useful, if a little too fond of
:38:39. > :38:42.acting the fool. That changed abruptly with the referendum and his
:38:43. > :38:46.support for vote leave, now seen as a mortal threat and the
:38:47. > :38:52.establishment went for him ruthlessly. You cannot call him a
:38:53. > :38:55.liar, he is one of those people in life you simply does not understand
:38:56. > :38:59.the difference between fact and fiction. Even those who had worked
:39:00. > :39:05.closely with him accused him of opportunism. It was a spectacular
:39:06. > :39:11.miscalculation, I don't think his heart was in it. He is a uniquely
:39:12. > :39:16.good communicator, he almost single-handedly helped deliver 17
:39:17. > :39:21.million people to vote for this course of action. In the end, having
:39:22. > :39:26.secured that victory, really, Michael Gove among others had some
:39:27. > :39:29.doubts, grave doubts, about whether Boris Johnson was going to deliver
:39:30. > :39:35.on what he persuaded the British public to vote for. There lies the
:39:36. > :39:39.mistake in the end, the miscalculation on a key issue of our
:39:40. > :39:44.day, and he has paid the price for it, the rest of us are paying
:39:45. > :39:51.heavily for it as well. After the result, the anger of frustrated
:39:52. > :39:57.remain voters focused on Boris, and for a man used to popularity, it was
:39:58. > :40:02.deeply upsetting. After his many mishaps, Boris Johnson has been fond
:40:03. > :40:13.of quoting this song. But can he really gets up again this time? If
:40:14. > :40:17.asked to play some minor role, in the next Conservative government, he
:40:18. > :40:21.will play it with good grace, and he will wait and see what happens. So
:40:22. > :40:27.we have not seen the end of Boris Johnson? I certainly don't think
:40:28. > :40:31.that we have seen the end of him. Boris Johnson will probably always
:40:32. > :40:38.be able to draw a crowd at will, but some are doubtful that he will ever
:40:39. > :40:43.be a serious political force again. As a politician whose main qualities
:40:44. > :40:47.were integrity, political courage, and an ability to unite people and
:40:48. > :40:51.make them smile and feel good about themselves and feel good about the
:40:52. > :40:55.UK, I am not sure there is a way back after the events of the last
:40:56. > :41:00.few weeks and months. National treasure, yes, politician, busted.
:41:01. > :41:03.It's the point in the programme where we sit back with a drink,
:41:04. > :41:05.and mull over the political dramas of the day.
:41:06. > :41:20.This is a bit of a story here, the Daily Mail, look at the cover, a
:41:21. > :41:28.party in flames and why it must be Theresa Yesterday, Sarah Vine seemed
:41:29. > :41:35.to imply... She has been disappointed in those hopes.
:41:36. > :41:39.Regarding Paul Dacre. She looks like the winner, the tag of treachery is
:41:40. > :41:45.going to stick, it is one thing for him to decide as a matter of
:41:46. > :41:48.principle to back Brexit and go against his old friend David
:41:49. > :41:54.Cameron, it is another for him to drop his friend, his close friend of
:41:55. > :41:58.30 years, at a moments notice, leaving him absolutely no scope
:41:59. > :42:02.except to withdraw. Politics is a dirty game, but many people will
:42:03. > :42:07.say, that is going too far. You would support Theresa May? Yes,
:42:08. > :42:20.reluctantly, she is remain and I am Brexit. She has integrity. She knows
:42:21. > :42:31.what she wants, and she will have a broad base. She might get a Murdoch
:42:32. > :42:38.endorsement. Murdoch loves Michael Gove. That is a bit more combative.
:42:39. > :42:43.What about the other two? The Treasury tag, has it finished in? A
:42:44. > :42:46.number of Tory MPs that I spoke with, not just those backing Boris
:42:47. > :42:51.but more generally were shot with Michael Gove's betrayal of Boris and
:42:52. > :42:53.the way that he did it at the last minute, leaving Boris Johnson with
:42:54. > :42:58.only a few minutes before the deadline for nominations what he was
:42:59. > :43:01.going to do, that is a huge trust issue for Michael Gove to go ahead
:43:02. > :43:06.with in any circumstances, let alone when he needs to reunite the Tory
:43:07. > :43:09.party after this incredibly divisive referendum, the lead should contest
:43:10. > :43:17.is going to be very bitter, he will struggle to make the case for him
:43:18. > :43:21.being leader and the Tory party... He cannot be a healer. You have
:43:22. > :43:25.written an excoriating piece about Boris a couple of months ago, so you
:43:26. > :43:29.must have been pleased that he has been edged out. I thought he would
:43:30. > :43:32.be a great liability to the Conservative Party in any general
:43:33. > :43:36.election, yes, from the party 's point of view, I am pleased. I'm not
:43:37. > :43:45.quite sure that Stephen and Isabella are right about the effect of the
:43:46. > :43:49.assassinations that Michael Gove has carried out on the Parliamentary
:43:50. > :43:53.Conservative Party, they quite like assassinations, they quite like
:43:54. > :43:57.toughness, his old image was really a rather unworldly, terribly
:43:58. > :44:01.intellectual, elaborate the courteous character, we have seen a
:44:02. > :44:07.new Michael Gove, some people will like that. Who are you supporting in
:44:08. > :44:11.this? In ten years' time I would be supporting Stephen Crabb, at the
:44:12. > :44:15.moment, Theresa May seems to be the unifying candidate. Do we feel the
:44:16. > :44:19.Conservative Party has found equilibria? Whether it is
:44:20. > :44:25.sustainable or not, the candidates in to be saying the same things, in
:44:26. > :44:31.their hustings launches, opportunity capitalism... Absolutely, for
:44:32. > :44:35.instance, it has been a bad week for the old attorney and, suddenly, the
:44:36. > :44:40.party has become quite levelling. Very keen to raise the condition of
:44:41. > :44:44.the poor, not sure about capitalism, it would like a kind of guided
:44:45. > :44:49.capitalism. There is a gathering consensus around and importantly
:44:50. > :44:56.different version of conservativism. Do you buy that? A lot of talk,
:44:57. > :45:00.let's see where the action is. Progressive, but they want to help
:45:01. > :45:04.the poor. We have heard this before. Let's see what happens. One
:45:05. > :45:10.significant thing, as said about the deficit. She has said, let's not
:45:11. > :45:13.worry about that. Everything we have heard from Osborne has been thrown
:45:14. > :45:17.out of the window. Extraordinary development. So money things are
:45:18. > :45:28.happening at once, difficult to take it in!
:45:29. > :45:37.I think the Tory party will pull together. I think it is unlikely
:45:38. > :45:43.Michael Gove can win this, I think Theresa May will win it. They even
:45:44. > :45:49.managed to reach a consensus on Brexit. All of the candidates have
:45:50. > :45:54.made it clear they will implement an exit. No one has said we must resist
:45:55. > :46:00.this. Stephen Crabb and Theresa May as Remain campaigners have made that
:46:01. > :46:07.clear. Matthew, you were a remain, I wonder whether now you feel the
:46:08. > :46:12.party, which is so clearly, and Matthew Hancock said it again, this
:46:13. > :46:16.is not a party for Remain. We are all excited about personal dramas,
:46:17. > :46:21.but there is some huge policy decisions ahead. Our terms of
:46:22. > :46:26.departure from the European Union is one of them. Matthew Hancock did not
:46:27. > :46:34.bite on your suggestion that if the best deal we can come up with looks
:46:35. > :46:40.awful, we might think again. But we might. You still think there is a
:46:41. > :46:43.bit of Remain Hope left in the party? Absolutely, they are
:46:44. > :46:48.terrified of this issue coming up again. They don't want a general
:46:49. > :46:54.election. Only Ukip could do well in a general election. I will wonder if
:46:55. > :47:02.there will be a leadership election. I was going to ask the same. If you
:47:03. > :47:08.are backing to Reza may, do we need to take the country to this agony
:47:09. > :47:12.for the next 11 weeks? Boris has only just hold out and there are
:47:13. > :47:16.other impressive candidates. We have other backers of Boris who might
:47:17. > :47:23.come out in favour for Andrea Leadsome. We haven't talked about
:47:24. > :47:31.her. Maybe we should talk about the other candidates. If MPs go ahead
:47:32. > :47:37.with this and boat the two that go forward to the members. Here you do
:47:38. > :47:43.think the other member will be? I have a hunch there may be two women.
:47:44. > :47:47.That is based on conversations with Tory MPs, who have been impressed
:47:48. > :47:53.with Andrea Leadsome. It would be amazing if he didn't have someone
:47:54. > :47:56.who had campaigned for Brexit. Andrea Leadsome was incredibly
:47:57. > :48:03.impressive during the referendum campaign. She was very, very good,
:48:04. > :48:09.as was Boris, but he doesn't have any rewards for it. It is possible
:48:10. > :48:14.that she could be one of the final two. Would you mind if the
:48:15. > :48:22.leadership election was called off? The Tory party has its rituals, so
:48:23. > :48:26.it would be unlikely to do that. It would be good for the country,
:48:27. > :48:33.better to get a Prime Minister before the 9th of September. We are
:48:34. > :48:37.looking at the potential of having a new British Prime Minister, an
:48:38. > :48:44.American president and the German Chancellor. Angela May with batch --
:48:45. > :48:51.Theresa May would match Angela Merkel. Let's leave it there.
:48:52. > :48:54.Meanwhile, back in the real world the great challenge of renegotiating
:48:55. > :48:56.a new EU relationship still confronts us.
:48:57. > :48:59.The pre-posturing is still underway, we don't know which comments to take
:49:00. > :49:04.But when Article 50 is eventually invoked, we'll be negotiating
:49:05. > :49:06.with the unelected EU Commission acting under the influence
:49:07. > :49:07.of the heads of state in the European Council
:49:08. > :49:20.A key issue for us is trade, and our diplomatic editor Mark Urban
:49:21. > :49:22.who's in Brussels this week, managed to sit down
:49:23. > :49:26.If we look at Canada for example, talks started seven years ago,
:49:27. > :49:31.No, we're done, we just have to be...
:49:32. > :49:44.Maybe, it depends on how it's ratified.
:49:45. > :49:47.In the light of that, is the article 50 provision that EU
:49:48. > :49:50.and the UK have two tie everything up in two years realistic?
:49:51. > :49:53.The article 50 has actually never been tested, it's a new article
:49:54. > :49:58.And as far as I understand it, it is about regulating how the exit
:49:59. > :50:05.Member states can prolong the period if it takes longer,
:50:06. > :50:08.but the actual relationship between us and the United Kingdom
:50:09. > :50:12.in the future will not be negotiated in article 50.
:50:13. > :50:15.That is the terms of exit, so that will take even longer.
:50:16. > :50:18.It's to negotiate the new relationship?
:50:19. > :50:24.It is about the terms of exit, so there are two negotiations.
:50:25. > :50:27.First you exit, then you negotiate the terms,
:50:28. > :50:32.the new relationship, whatever that is.
:50:33. > :50:35.So what position do you see the UK being in between exiting
:50:36. > :50:38.and having its new terms of trade in place?
:50:39. > :50:41.Right now, they are members, we are 28.
:50:42. > :50:44.And until they exit, they will remain members.
:50:45. > :50:47.So the referendum, which of course we take note and respect,
:50:48. > :50:53.First, there has to be a notification, which the next time
:50:54. > :50:59.Then the process can start and then we will have to see
:51:00. > :51:01.all the practicalities that are linked to this
:51:02. > :51:07.And then depending on how the United Kingdom, they have
:51:08. > :51:11.to define what kind of relationship they want to have with the EU.
:51:12. > :51:18.Then that'll have to be negotiated by our heads of states.
:51:19. > :51:23.But while they are working towards that...
:51:24. > :51:28.But once those two years are up, they are out?
:51:29. > :51:44.In the years, if we follow the Canadian example,
:51:45. > :51:48.it could be even seven or eight years before a new trade deal
:51:49. > :51:51.is in place, on what basis are the EU 27 and Britain doing business,
:51:52. > :51:58.There would be a third country there.
:51:59. > :52:01.But that then presumably would be very damaging for supply chains,
:52:02. > :52:02.all sorts of things, French companies,
:52:03. > :52:04.Danish companies, British companies?
:52:05. > :52:14.Do you worry that we've passed at high tide of openness to free
:52:15. > :52:19.trade, increasingly when you hear for example, French objections
:52:20. > :52:22.to what you are trying to negotiate with the Americans, that
:52:23. > :52:25.protectionism, nationalism will prevent further major
:52:26. > :52:37.There are lots of studies we've had, there has been won from the OECD,
:52:38. > :52:40.there has been one from different independent trade related think
:52:41. > :52:42.tanks and organisations coming lately that shows protectionism
:52:43. > :52:47.And we see all over the world, not just in Europe, the US
:52:48. > :52:50.and elsewhere as well, hostility towards trade,
:52:51. > :52:54.which worries me because trade of course is a fabulous mean
:52:55. > :52:58.to increase jobs and investment and bring people closer to each other.
:52:59. > :53:05.And there is a raise in protectionism and that's why it
:53:06. > :53:08.saddens me that the UK was traditionally a friend of free
:53:09. > :53:22.The voice defending free trade will be weaker.
:53:23. > :53:31.At the beginning of the programme we saw this panel of Conservative Party
:53:32. > :53:35.members. The most powerful people in the country at the moment because
:53:36. > :53:41.they are picking the next Prime Minister. You have heard a lot
:53:42. > :53:47.today? One of the things we can be proud of is we have a good range of
:53:48. > :53:50.candidates within the party to choose from. Stephen Crabb has a
:53:51. > :53:54.working-class background. Michael Gove is an intellectual. We can be
:53:55. > :53:58.comforted by the fact in comparison to Labour. But I am undecided, I
:53:59. > :54:05.want to see what they can offer, especially to the country. Two of
:54:06. > :54:09.view, not supporting Theresa May. You have heard people saying, scrap
:54:10. > :54:15.the leadership election and anoint to Reza may because the Daily Mail
:54:16. > :54:23.backs her and a lot of MPs are backing her. Would you be annoyed if
:54:24. > :54:29.the contest was taken out of your hands? Absolutely. Democracy is not
:54:30. > :54:35.in the hands of Paul Dacre. The idea you have two ignore the people, is
:54:36. > :54:40.preposterous. Let's not pretend you are the people. It is on vertical
:54:41. > :54:45.Michael Gove treacherous because he followed his conviction. I admire
:54:46. > :54:49.him for going against his friends, if he believes for the betterment of
:54:50. > :54:56.the country that Brexiter was the right option. I don't think it's
:54:57. > :54:59.treacherous. Do you think it will stick? I don't think that is
:55:00. > :55:05.accurate. He believed Britain is better off outside the EU. Who do
:55:06. > :55:15.you predict will win? Theresa May. Boris. Michael Gove. Andrea
:55:16. > :55:19.Leadsome. Theresa May. Thank you for coming in.
:55:20. > :55:25.I dare say our attention will return to the Labour Party tomorrow.
:55:26. > :55:44.The 1st of July on Friday, but no sign of the weather pattern
:55:45. > :55:50.changing. 20 places seeing sunshine through a good part of the morning
:55:51. > :55:52.but the clouds develop and the rain gets