:00:00. > :00:00.A second female Prime Minister for Britain.
:00:07. > :00:18.Andrea Leadsom, 84 votes, Theresa May, 199 votes.
:00:19. > :00:21.Therefore Michael Gove, having the lowest number of
:00:22. > :00:24.votes, has been eliminated from the ballot.
:00:25. > :00:27.The Tories already have a female leader of course - in Scotland.
:00:28. > :00:33.I really don't have any message for that monster.
:00:34. > :00:39.He basically took away a person who was peaceful, who
:00:40. > :00:42.wanted unity in the world, who wanted the communities to unite.
:00:43. > :00:50.And: we've seen the headlines, but what lies buried
:00:51. > :00:55.deep within the pages of the Chilcot Report?
:00:56. > :01:00.I will be delving into this, extracting the tale of one
:01:01. > :01:07.particularly murky episode. And novelist Robert Harris explores
:01:08. > :01:16.the many lives of his former He often wore make-up, even when he
:01:17. > :01:20.was not in a television studio. I don't know why, maybe it's just
:01:21. > :01:26.appealed to him, that sense of always being a performer.
:01:27. > :01:30.Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom will duke it out to lead
:01:31. > :01:34.the Conservative Party and, of course, the nation
:01:35. > :01:36.after the final round of voting by MPs saw Justice
:01:37. > :01:39.Secretary Michael Gove limp home in third place.
:01:40. > :01:43.I would have described it as a massive shock once but,
:01:44. > :01:46.given the unprecedented political upheaval of the last
:01:47. > :01:49.fortnight, Mrs Leadsom's presence on the ballot -
:01:50. > :01:52.not to mention the absence of a Johnson or an Osborne -
:01:53. > :01:58.It all means not only that the next Prime Minister will be a woman
:01:59. > :02:01.but also that we won't have a firm hand on the country's tiller
:02:02. > :02:08.Newsnight's political editor Nick Watt is with me.
:02:09. > :02:17.Nick. As you were saying, an emphatic win for Theresa May, almost
:02:18. > :02:22.200 votes and 60% of Tory MPs think she should be Prime Minister. She
:02:23. > :02:28.will face in the final round Andrea Leadsom. She is also vote share
:02:29. > :02:33.increase to 25% of the total, 84 votes. Michael Gove in third place,
:02:34. > :02:36.humiliating result for him because his vote share went down and he is
:02:37. > :02:43.therefore disqualified from the contest. Theresa May's team, are
:02:44. > :02:48.they as confident as the numbers suggest? On paper she should walk it
:02:49. > :02:54.but her team are nervous, they think that Andrea Leadsom, as the Brexit
:02:55. > :02:58.campaign could run an insurgency campaign, some ministers say she is
:02:59. > :03:02.connecting in their constituencies. One Cabinet minister I spoke to said
:03:03. > :03:08.that if she becomes Prime Minister with only 25% of Tory MPs supporting
:03:09. > :03:11.hurt the Tories could have and Jeremy Corbyn situation. You called
:03:12. > :03:17.and humiliation for Michael Gove, any word on how he's taking it?
:03:18. > :03:20.Licking his wounds and the word from this camp is that he's really hurt
:03:21. > :03:25.at the end of this week from which she cannot escape from the image of
:03:26. > :03:30.being the double assassin. They say he won't be cutting any deals. He
:03:31. > :03:34.will accept a Cabinet post if he is offered one, if he is not offered
:03:35. > :03:40.one he will not brood and think when he can return. The dilemma for him
:03:41. > :03:44.is who dizzy endorse? He says it must be a Brexiteer as the next
:03:45. > :03:49.Prime Minister that Andrea Letson does not share his worldview. We
:03:50. > :03:52.thought we would take a look at her although I should warn that this
:03:53. > :03:57.report contains some flash photography.
:03:58. > :04:03.I can announce the result of the election for the leadership of the
:04:04. > :04:07.Conservative Party. Will it be third time lucky for the plucky outsider
:04:08. > :04:14.in the Conservative leadership contest? Andrea Leadsom has not even
:04:15. > :04:18.made it to the Cabinet yet she is now within reach of the premiership
:04:19. > :04:29.after making it the final stage of the battle choose David Cameron's
:04:30. > :04:34.succession. What do we want? She has a Eurosceptic fan base on the right
:04:35. > :04:38.of the party after playing a leading role on the Brexit side of the
:04:39. > :04:42.referendum campaign and debate Mrs Leadsom showed she will run an
:04:43. > :04:45.insurgency campaign by instructing the supporters to march on Whitehall
:04:46. > :04:50.other she did not trouble it with her presence. Concerns are raised
:04:51. > :04:55.about her lack of Cabinet experience could make a something of a novice
:04:56. > :05:00.as Prime Minister. Opponents also point to the socially conservative
:05:01. > :05:05.views which prompted her today to highlight her unease about same-sex
:05:06. > :05:10.marriage. Because she decided to abstain on the subject of same-sex
:05:11. > :05:14.marriage, this does not in any way make her less respectful of loving
:05:15. > :05:23.couples who just happened to be in a same-sex relationship. We have moved
:05:24. > :05:27.on. Get over it! Mrs Leadsom, who has so far escaped scrutiny as a
:05:28. > :05:35.relatively junior minister now finds her CV under the spotlight. Shortly
:05:36. > :05:39.after her election to Parliament in 2010 she finished her record in the
:05:40. > :05:44.City to MPs. I should declare that I have been in banking even longer
:05:45. > :05:49.than my honourable friend having been 23 years in investment banking
:05:50. > :05:53.and funds management. Now it seems that giving a ten year stint, she
:05:54. > :05:58.only had official approval to deal with funds for three months.
:05:59. > :06:02.Supporters of Theresa May say that she is a safer pair of hands. I
:06:03. > :06:08.think what people want is someone who can not only bring the party
:06:09. > :06:12.together but the country together. I think the results today has
:06:13. > :06:17.demonstrated that Theresa has that ability. It is no time for a risk.
:06:18. > :06:23.Friends of Andrea Leadsom are hurt by a tax on her record and what
:06:24. > :06:26.regard as a sneering attitude to the membership of the parliament Bible
:06:27. > :06:31.study group. They say that Christianity lies at the root of the
:06:32. > :06:37.plain speaking approach to politics and explains why she takes pride in
:06:38. > :06:42.delivering on her promises. With this background, the team have high
:06:43. > :06:47.hopes that Leadsom will go down as a major figure in British political
:06:48. > :06:52.history. This candidate can outstrip Margaret Thatcher. She is the real
:06:53. > :06:58.deal. She is absolutely fantastic. You ain't seen nothing yet. Would
:06:59. > :07:03.Theresa May outstrip Lady Thatcher? I don't think any of us would want
:07:04. > :07:08.to make that comparison. Theresa May's camp are nervously watching
:07:09. > :07:14.the newcomer, they hope the Home Secretary's overwhelming support
:07:15. > :07:17.among MPs will said the grass roots message to Tories determined to vote
:07:18. > :07:23.with their hearts we Brexit campaigner. Last time it was very
:07:24. > :07:27.close, this time it's two and a half times as many votes for Theresa May
:07:28. > :07:31.as for her nearest rival. So my message to the membership is, please
:07:32. > :07:37.think long and hard about your decision. British politics has
:07:38. > :07:40.undergone a roller-coaster ride in recent months. It is now over to
:07:41. > :07:45.Tory members to decide whether something of the old order is
:07:46. > :07:51.re-established. I'm hopeful, optimistic. Or if Britain will
:07:52. > :07:54.venture out of Europe with a true, though untested believer.
:07:55. > :07:56.We're joined now from our Edinburgh studio by Ruth Davidson, leader
:07:57. > :07:58.of the Scottish Conservatives, who earlier today announced
:07:59. > :08:03.she was backing Theresa May for Prime Minister.
:08:04. > :08:09.Michael Gove, Ruth, I know that he is not the force that he was a
:08:10. > :08:13.fortnight ago but he said the successful candidate must be on the
:08:14. > :08:18.winning side of the argument. Theresa May was not. Does Michael
:08:19. > :08:22.Gove have a point? Well I think it must be someone who can unite both
:08:23. > :08:26.the country and the party and I think Theresa May is the only one
:08:27. > :08:29.that can do that. She's already got the vast majority of the
:08:30. > :08:31.parliamentary party behind her and has huge support in all parts of the
:08:32. > :08:52.country and my colleagues in Scotland, both
:08:53. > :08:55.in the Commons and the house of Lords, the MEPs, myself in Holyrood,
:08:56. > :08:58.all four of us in this position is back and we also have to talk about
:08:59. > :09:00.some of the divides in this country, including the privileged few and
:09:01. > :09:03.those like me who went to the local comprehensive, someone who can speak
:09:04. > :09:05.to that and make sure government is for everyone in this country and not
:09:06. > :09:08.for those people who feel far removed from the corridors of power.
:09:09. > :09:10.Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom both went to grammar school, why can't
:09:11. > :09:13.Andrea Leadsom unite the party. There will be a lot of challenges
:09:14. > :09:18.for whoever comes up. This won't be easy years. We don't have much time,
:09:19. > :09:22.why can't Andrea Leadsom unite the party and the country? She hasn't
:09:23. > :09:25.got the plurality of the party behind her, she did not get support
:09:26. > :09:29.of the party in Scotland and in other parts of the country but I'm
:09:30. > :09:37.not here to criticise Conservative colleagues. It takes a lot of guts
:09:38. > :09:40.to put your name on a ballot paper, it takes guts to say you want to
:09:41. > :09:43.lead and I want to see a big broad debate across the UK and all the
:09:44. > :09:46.hustings planned for the candidates, it is right that the membership get
:09:47. > :09:49.there and say but I think it's right that in terms of the person who's
:09:50. > :09:53.got a steal for the job, who can go eyeball to eyeball with Angela
:09:54. > :09:57.Merkel and Nicholas Turgeon, it can only be Theresa May. When David
:09:58. > :10:02.Cameron re-signed two digit think would be the next prime Minster?
:10:03. > :10:08.Theresa May. What did she mean when she described the nasty party? About
:10:09. > :10:12.the few people used to have of us. She talked about that when she was
:10:13. > :10:17.chairman of the party. She has held big roles in the party and done a
:10:18. > :10:21.lot of work in the country, I know that every time I called her during
:10:22. > :10:24.the referendum, to make speeches all to come to drop to Scotland's
:10:25. > :10:29.business women, she was there and heartbeat. Anything she needed to
:10:30. > :10:33.do. She's got a huge capacity for work, all the leadership skills, she
:10:34. > :10:36.can see the way others work, the way people look at the party and don't
:10:37. > :10:40.like what they see and she knows the way she wants to change the party so
:10:41. > :10:46.it is for everyone and not just for one section of the society. Can you
:10:47. > :10:51.put flesh on those bums and tell me some of the ideologies you would
:10:52. > :10:56.have filed under nasty? I think the way that we spoke in the past, I was
:10:57. > :11:00.not a member of the party back in the days that you are talking about,
:11:01. > :11:04.I was still a BBC journalist being neutral like you are now. She was
:11:05. > :11:08.talking about the way in which often our opponents have thought we only
:11:09. > :11:13.spoke to one section when actually we are a broad church. I know in my
:11:14. > :11:16.first selection when I stood as a candidate, Michael Martin, the
:11:17. > :11:22.disgraced former Speaker of the House of Commons, I was being told
:11:23. > :11:27.that Margaret Thatcher shot the railroads when actually they were
:11:28. > :11:30.shot long before her, not because of industrial policy but they made
:11:31. > :11:34.steam locomotives when the world had moved on to diesels are many myths
:11:35. > :11:38.have been perpetrated about our party by its opponents and it's time
:11:39. > :11:42.to break them down. And by having to state educated women by merit, I
:11:43. > :11:54.think it will help address some of that. -- two state educated women.
:11:55. > :11:58.This is not a myth, Theresa May says she can't guarantee the lives of the
:11:59. > :12:02.immigrants who are here. She says she wants to guarantee them. I
:12:03. > :12:09.publicly said that I think she should give that guarantee. Why
:12:10. > :12:13.hasn't she? She knows if she takes on this role she's got work to do in
:12:14. > :12:17.making sure that the British abroad are allowed to stay, and looked
:12:18. > :12:20.after. I think the person in that role should be able to say,
:12:21. > :12:24.irrespective of that, that they should stay. The one thing David
:12:25. > :12:28.Cameron will tell you over the last five years is, while I am a
:12:29. > :12:32.supporter of colleague, when I disagree I will say and they will
:12:33. > :12:37.know about it. Do you know what her vision for Brexit is? Does it
:12:38. > :12:41.involve the single market? Have you had a conversation with her? I have
:12:42. > :12:45.and I've said that I want Scotland to have access to that single
:12:46. > :12:49.market. I think it is important for Scottish business, for a lot of
:12:50. > :12:54.sectors, passports for financial services and the best deal for
:12:55. > :12:58.Scotland's fishermen. A lot of sectors have specific interests and
:12:59. > :13:02.we need a hard negotiator who is tough and steely and can go toe to
:13:03. > :13:06.toe with the big players in Europe and who already has contacts with
:13:07. > :13:10.all the interior ministers like Theresa May does. While I think that
:13:11. > :13:14.Andrea Leadsom has a huge, Bright future in the party and has done
:13:15. > :13:18.incredibly well, I have been up against debates and she is talented
:13:19. > :13:23.but I think we need someone who can hit the ground running on day one
:13:24. > :13:29.and that is Theresa May. Hit the ground running yet not offer any
:13:30. > :13:34.decrease in immigration? There has been a lot of discussion. Actual
:13:35. > :13:40.policy? I think there will have to be a lot of work done, not just on
:13:41. > :13:46.the framework... What will that policy look like? On what is on the
:13:47. > :13:50.table form the other 27 nations. I don't think you can criticise anyone
:13:51. > :13:54.who wants the top job for wanting to keep their cards close to their
:13:55. > :13:59.chest before they go to Europe to negotiate. Forgive me for not having
:14:00. > :14:05.congratulated you sooner, Ruth, you got engaged on 23rd May. Andrea
:14:06. > :14:08.Leadsom described as of today as not happy with the legislation that
:14:09. > :14:13.would let you marry your girlfriend. I was a huge proponent of same-sex
:14:14. > :14:20.marriage and that still parts of the UK where that is not permitted, I've
:14:21. > :14:23.been invited by Amnesty to give the animal Pride march in Belfast...
:14:24. > :14:27.Would you want to be in a party led by a woman not happy with the fact
:14:28. > :14:38.that you could marry your fiance in a church? This is my party. She has
:14:39. > :14:43.such is not a huge supporter of it, how do you feel, is it a crisis of
:14:44. > :14:47.conscience, or water off a ducks back? I don't know Andrea Leadsom
:14:48. > :14:52.well, she said it was something to do with her faith, as a woman of
:14:53. > :14:56.faith myself. About my Christianity and some of the difficulties after
:14:57. > :15:00.reconciling my faith and my sexuality I know it can take time
:15:01. > :15:03.for people to do that. I'm very pleased that Theresa May was
:15:04. > :15:08.instrument or in bringing forward same-sex marriage, something I have
:15:09. > :15:12.supported going forward, and whoever becomes Prime Minister will get an
:15:13. > :15:18.invitation to my wedding when it happens! With Davis, thank you, and
:15:19. > :15:20.when that happy day dawns, I hope it is wonderful that you -- Ruth
:15:21. > :15:25.Davidson. The murder of Glasgow shopkeeper
:15:26. > :15:27.Asad Shah on 24th March this year sent shockwaves
:15:28. > :15:29.through the Shawlands area of the city and saw hundreds take
:15:30. > :15:32.to the streets for a vigil Today his killer pled guilty to the
:15:33. > :15:59.murder at Glasgow High Court. A well loved petition Pakistani
:16:00. > :16:05.shopkeeper, Asad Shah, is brutally murdered by another Muslim. A
:16:06. > :16:12.community, a family, are left asking why. Initially, tabloids linked the
:16:13. > :16:15.murder to a Facebook post hours before his death, where Asad Shah
:16:16. > :16:22.wished everybody a happy Easter. Others said he belonged to the
:16:23. > :16:28.persecuted Ackerman Ahmadiyya sect of Islam. This is the story of a
:16:29. > :16:32.murder planned in Bradford, carried out in Glasgow and inspired by
:16:33. > :16:38.events in Pakistan. It ties together the killing of a Scottish shopkeeper
:16:39. > :16:43.with the killing of the Pakistani politician five years ago. Both
:16:44. > :16:49.victims are accused by some Muslims as having committed Basa me. Today
:16:50. > :16:55.the killer of Asad Shah pleaded guilty to the murder. I haven't
:16:56. > :17:05.called him a man. I don't have any message for that monster. He
:17:06. > :17:11.basically took away a person who was peaceful, who wanted unity in the
:17:12. > :17:20.world, who wanted the community is to unite, who wanted to help the
:17:21. > :17:32.community and him harming somewhat someone of peace, literally, he is
:17:33. > :17:37.the enemy of humanity. On the 24th of March, Asad Shah had been working
:17:38. > :17:41.in his family's shop when he was brutally attacked. After stabbing
:17:42. > :17:45.him to death, his killer, who had travelled 200 miles from Bradford,
:17:46. > :17:52.calmly waited at a bus stop opposite for the police. Asad Shah's brother
:17:53. > :17:58.witnessed the attack but still finds it ethical to talk about. He said
:17:59. > :18:04.his father had brought the family to Scotland in the 1990s from Pakistan
:18:05. > :18:08.to escape religious intolerance. His pharmacy was set on fire by
:18:09. > :18:14.extremist there and a hospital was burnt down. We had an apartment
:18:15. > :18:19.above the pharmacy where my parents were with the kids. It was set on
:18:20. > :18:27.fire. My dad thought about our future and thought we would be safer
:18:28. > :18:30.in Britain. It's unimaginable, that's what's happened to my
:18:31. > :18:35.brother. And it was all my dad trying to protect the kids, thinking
:18:36. > :18:39.something like this would happen in Pakistan, and it has happened here.
:18:40. > :18:45.But it seems Asad Shah wasn't targeted for his faith, but for
:18:46. > :18:51.videos posted online. Recorded in his shop but discussing his
:18:52. > :18:56.spiritual beliefs. In some he claims to be a prophet himself. One of
:18:57. > :19:01.those who watched the videos and was incensed by them was 32-year-old
:19:02. > :19:06.Tanveer Ahmed, a minicab driver from Bradford, who would go on to murder
:19:07. > :19:12.Asad Shah. Tanveer Ahmed was a fervent admirer of another killer
:19:13. > :19:18.who had murdered a prominent Pakistani politician who had
:19:19. > :19:25.proposed to reform Pakistan's controversial blasphemy laws. He was
:19:26. > :19:31.held up as a hero, despite being executed earlier this year. His
:19:32. > :19:32.brother says Tanveer Ahmed had talked to him about the Glasgow
:19:33. > :19:50.shopkeeper Asad Shah. Photo tributes online portrayed the
:19:51. > :19:56.two killers together. Qadri's brother says Tanveer Ahmed was
:19:57. > :20:14.inspired by his example. Tanveer Ahmed wasn't the only person
:20:15. > :20:18.in Britain to admire Qadri. A number of mosques, including some in
:20:19. > :20:23.Glasgow and Bradford expressed support for him, even if they
:20:24. > :20:27.haven't for Tanveer Ahmed. Both Tanveer Ahmed and Qadri came from a
:20:28. > :20:33.strand of Islam normally associated with a spiritual, liberal
:20:34. > :20:40.interpretation of religion, one that completely opposes Al-Qaeda and
:20:41. > :20:47.Isis, but the murders they committed upsets the narrative. Extremism it
:20:48. > :20:52.seems is much more contradicted. Tonight, Tanveer Ahmed faces a
:20:53. > :20:57.lengthy jail sentence. But even from behind bars he seems able to spread
:20:58. > :21:03.his messages. This post on Facebook appears to be him sending his
:21:04. > :21:10.supporters Eid greetings earlier this week but we haven't been able
:21:11. > :21:15.to confirm it. It ends with a chilling warning, cut the heads from
:21:16. > :21:19.the bodies. The man who murdered your brother, he said he did so
:21:20. > :21:22.because he was defending the honour of the Prophet Muhammad because your
:21:23. > :21:32.brother was claiming to be a prophet. I think it's very clear,
:21:33. > :21:37.when you look at the history, the Prophet Muhammad did not result to
:21:38. > :21:41.violence and things like this. Asad Shah's family have been torn apart
:21:42. > :21:44.by the murder. They want to preserve his memory but are in fear of their
:21:45. > :21:52.lives. It's been very difficult for the family. The family don't feel
:21:53. > :22:04.safe any more. Living here in Scotland. And it has split the
:22:05. > :22:11.family apart, since the incident. And some members of the family have
:22:12. > :22:17.left Scotland, or are in the process of leaving and it really shouldn't
:22:18. > :22:24.have come to this. In the last few years,
:22:25. > :22:28.the word "whatever" and its youthful abbreviation "whatevs" have become
:22:29. > :22:30.bywords for banality, the stock response of
:22:31. > :22:32.the uninterested to tidings about which they
:22:33. > :22:33.could not care less. Strange, then, that Tony Blair's
:22:34. > :22:36.employment of it in a 2002 missive to George W Bush -
:22:37. > :22:39."I will be with you, whatever" - has proved
:22:40. > :22:43.to be the most important of all 2.6 million words
:22:44. > :22:46.in the Chilcot Report. But we can't be sure of that
:22:47. > :22:48.quite yet because we That plum job's fallen
:22:49. > :22:53.to Newsnight's Diplomatic Editor, Mark Urban, who's now had 36 hours
:22:54. > :23:10.with a tome three times I have done a deep dive into volume
:23:11. > :23:13.eight here, there all manner of different stories and aspects of
:23:14. > :23:19.this. You can take your pick, really. The reason I have chosen to
:23:20. > :23:23.tell this story tonight is because it's a pretty extraordinary tale.
:23:24. > :23:27.Like many of other things, aspects of this were already in the public
:23:28. > :23:33.domain. The idea that Britain's exit from Iraq and Basra was subject to
:23:34. > :23:38.some sort of deal, and here it is in all its sordid detail, after years
:23:39. > :23:43.of trying to bring peace to the streets of Basra and failing, the
:23:44. > :23:47.British Army and MI6 ended up talking to a jailed militia
:23:48. > :23:53.commander in a cell on the outskirts of Basra.
:23:54. > :24:02.In mid-2007 after operations to hit the Shia militia and is, the dish
:24:03. > :24:07.military tried a new tack, opening up discussions with a senior
:24:08. > :24:08.commander they had arrested two years before. In the Chilcot Report
:24:09. > :24:31.the prisoner is called Jam1. They came up with a trial deal.
:24:32. > :24:35.British arrest operations would stop, it couple of British military
:24:36. > :24:40.prisoners would be released and JAM1 would demonstrate his ability to
:24:41. > :24:45.deliver a reduction in violence. The secretive talks came at an Aqua
:24:46. > :24:50.time, just as the British military wanted to hand Basra over to Iraqi
:24:51. > :24:55.forces and pull back to outside the city. -- awkward time. The Americans
:24:56. > :24:58.had spent the summer doing the opposite, surging forces and
:24:59. > :25:03.re-entering many areas. But the British wanted out. The security
:25:04. > :25:07.situation was difficult for us. Every move outside our bases
:25:08. > :25:14.required detailed planning and was high risk. I thought we were having
:25:15. > :25:20.limited effect on improving the security situation in Basra. 90% of
:25:21. > :25:27.the violence was directed against us. Politically there was no contact
:25:28. > :25:36.between us and the local provincial government. Coalition sponsored
:25:37. > :25:38.reconstruction had almost ceased. An MOD civil servant wrote that pulling
:25:39. > :25:52.out of Basra city created... The British toe had started to roll
:25:53. > :25:58.over the deals with debt captive, JAM1, from one month to the next.
:25:59. > :26:01.Each time releasing more Iraqi military prisoners. One MoD civil
:26:02. > :26:19.servant told the Defence Secretary...
:26:20. > :26:25.Covered by their deal, the British pulled out of their main downtown
:26:26. > :26:31.Basra base early in September. The Americans were seething and accused
:26:32. > :26:36.the British of leaving Iraqis to the mercy of the militias, a charge one
:26:37. > :26:41.Chilcot witness rejected. Yes, I think it is unfair. As we heard from
:26:42. > :26:47.the general, we consolidated at the airport as part of a planned and
:26:48. > :26:55.coherent transition from coalition lead to Iraqi lead for
:26:56. > :27:01.responsibility for security. All agreed with the approach and the
:27:02. > :27:04.timings. I think it is unfair. A joint intelligence committee report
:27:05. > :27:09.showed a steep fall in attacks on British forces as a result of the
:27:10. > :27:15.deal and speculated about a broader deal with the militias. Their
:27:16. > :27:22.prisoner, JAM1, asked to be on the next wave of prisoner releases. Time
:27:23. > :27:29.was running out. By the end of 2007, JAM1, who the Chilcot Report doesn't
:27:30. > :27:36.name, but we know to have been... Was released. In the last months
:27:37. > :27:41.violence picked up again. It reached a peak in March 2008 when Iraqi
:27:42. > :27:45.forces engaged in a full-scale battle. For some days the British
:27:46. > :27:50.hung back at the airport and American advisers went into Basra to
:27:51. > :27:52.help restore the situation. It all added to the sense of an ignominious
:27:53. > :27:55.end to the mission. It will take years for the full
:27:56. > :27:59.impact of the Chilcot Report into the Iraq war to be
:28:00. > :28:01.properly measured. Yesterday, as the man at its heart
:28:02. > :28:05.responded to its publication, it took mere moments for talk
:28:06. > :28:08.to turn to the demeanour and even They are, though, subjects
:28:09. > :28:13.which have long exercised Once a close friend of the former
:28:14. > :28:17.Prime Minister, it's fair to say they'd fallen out by the time Harris
:28:18. > :28:20.published his 2010 novel, The Ghost, featuring
:28:21. > :28:23.a thinly-disguised Blair facing In this film, Robert Harris
:28:24. > :28:42.considers his former I first met Tony Blair in 1992, just
:28:43. > :28:46.before John Major beat Neil Kinnock in that general election. My
:28:47. > :28:50.overwhelming impression, I had never met him before, he was then the
:28:51. > :28:54.Labour employment spokesman and I was a columnist on the Sunday Times.
:28:55. > :28:58.He was above all refreshingly normal and he always talked as if he was
:28:59. > :29:03.separate from politics in a funny way. He empathised with somebody
:29:04. > :29:06.outside politics and he would say, I don't know why I'm doing this. We
:29:07. > :29:12.don't seem to be going anywhere. I don't know why just don't give it
:29:13. > :29:18.all up and go back to being a barrister and spend more time with
:29:19. > :29:22.my wife and kids. One can't underestimate the importance of that
:29:23. > :29:31.quality in Tony Blair, and what made in 1997 election possible. I was
:29:32. > :29:38.with him in his constituency home in his sitting room, standing with him
:29:39. > :29:42.at 10pm on election night when the election poll was first revealed and
:29:43. > :29:46.David Dimbleby said we predict it will be the Labour Party with a
:29:47. > :29:51.majority of 146. Extraordinary, nobody had forecast that. I remember
:29:52. > :29:56.saying to him, how do you feel, because I had to write it up. He
:29:57. > :30:01.said, I feel nothing, really. I'm just ready to get onto the next
:30:02. > :30:05.thing. When I first arrived at his home in Sedgefield it was the
:30:06. > :30:10.ordinary policemen on the door, but when I left, and it was clear he
:30:11. > :30:13.would be Prime Minister, there were five or six men with machine guns
:30:14. > :30:20.patrolling the gardens. From that time onwards I guess he never lived
:30:21. > :30:24.a normal life again. I remember going to dinner at Chequers in the
:30:25. > :30:32.summer after he was elected Prime Minister. Really almost the first
:30:33. > :30:37.warning sign I got was that they were discussing a cabinet meeting,
:30:38. > :30:42.and Roy Jenkins was there. In the 70s or 60s when he was a cabinet
:30:43. > :30:46.minister, they had two hours on a Tuesday and two hours on Thursday.
:30:47. > :30:54.Tony Blair said they wouldn't do that, just 45 minutes once per week.
:30:55. > :30:58.Ireland but Jenkins looking at him, and I looked at Roy, and it was the
:30:59. > :31:03.first moment where we thought, it will be a very personal, one-man
:31:04. > :31:08.government. -- I remember. He often wore make-up, even when not in a
:31:09. > :31:13.television studio. I don't know why, maybe it appealed to him, that sense
:31:14. > :31:20.of always being gay performer. You don't pray together for example? No,
:31:21. > :31:27.we don't pray together, Jeremy. Religious faith is very important
:31:28. > :31:31.for him. He developed a very, good and evil point of view of the world.
:31:32. > :31:37.When I saw he had written to George Bush, I am with you whatever, it has
:31:38. > :31:45.the biblical connotation, I will be with you even to the end. And so, I
:31:46. > :31:52.think you can see their this sort of very personalised, for want of a
:31:53. > :32:02.better word, MSI and it kind of view of politics. -- Messianic view of
:32:03. > :32:08.politics. As things went wrong, he developed a kind of masochism
:32:09. > :32:10.strategy that reached its full flowering yesterday with the
:32:11. > :32:16.publication of the Chilcot Report. That was almost like Christ nailed
:32:17. > :32:20.to the cross. With Tony Blair you can never be quite sure where the
:32:21. > :32:26.performance ends and the private man begins. I felt there there was
:32:27. > :32:33.perhaps a mixture of the two and he was playing Christ on the cross, but
:32:34. > :32:40.also in a way, he is in anguish, and he has morphed into this strange
:32:41. > :32:46.figure that is not any longer quite of this world. It's said that all
:32:47. > :32:52.prime ministers go mad after a time. And certainly Margaret Thatcher
:32:53. > :32:58.began to behave erratically. But I don't think any has gone quite as
:32:59. > :33:00.strange, I'm afraid, as Tony Blair, simply because he started out so
:33:01. > :33:06.ordinary to begin with. David Cameron - remember him?
:33:07. > :33:11.- didn't make much of it, and Alistair Campbell famously
:33:12. > :33:13.forbade Tony Blair to speak of his own faith in public, boldly
:33:14. > :33:16.stating, "We don't do God." But the next Prime Minister
:33:17. > :33:18.definitely does. Both contenders are
:33:19. > :33:19.practising Christians. Theresa May is a vicar's daughter
:33:20. > :33:22.and Andrea Leadsom today declined to deny that she believed
:33:23. > :33:24.the Almighty had ever On the other side of the Atlantic,
:33:25. > :33:31.Christianity and right-wing politics often seem to combine to create
:33:32. > :33:34.homophobic rhetoric and ugly scenes So, could we see more of that
:33:35. > :33:37.over here, or perhaps, instead, a kinder, more
:33:38. > :33:40.morally upright frame for politics, influenced
:33:41. > :33:43.by the Christian religion? David Grossman has been
:33:44. > :34:05.considering the leadership One of 5.4 FM in London and across
:34:06. > :34:09.the UK and Digital radio. David Cameron once famously described his
:34:10. > :34:14.own Christian faith as rather like the reception of the London radio
:34:15. > :34:20.station Magic FM in the Chiltern Hills, it fades in and out, he said.
:34:21. > :34:25.But for a large number of the current crop of Conservative MPs
:34:26. > :34:30.their faith is constant and informs their politics. It is central to
:34:31. > :34:33.their political lives. What's more large number of those who contested
:34:34. > :34:39.the conservatively to ship this time say they are active Christians. The
:34:40. > :34:43.question is, is this just a coincidence or has something
:34:44. > :34:50.happened to the Conservative Party and its relationship with God and
:34:51. > :34:54.church? There was, and I was part of it, an influential organisation
:34:55. > :34:59.still active in the party today called the conservative Christian
:35:00. > :35:02.Fellowship. Over a long period it recruited churchgoers, went to
:35:03. > :35:08.churches and said get involved with politics. There may be an element of
:35:09. > :35:13.that work coming to fruition but that work was certainly done before
:35:14. > :35:17.people like Theresa May applied to be party members. Front runner
:35:18. > :35:23.Theresa May is a vicar's daughter and says her faith is active and
:35:24. > :35:28.deep. I think the point is that it is part of me. Part of who I am and
:35:29. > :35:33.how I approach things. I think it's right that we don't flaunt these
:35:34. > :35:38.things in British politics. But it is a part of me, it is there and it
:35:39. > :35:44.obviously helps to frame my thinking and my approach. The other
:35:45. > :35:48.contenders still in the race, Andrea Leadsom, has come to faith more
:35:49. > :35:55.recently and seems more enthusiastic about discussing it. Ace I always
:35:56. > :36:00.tried to ensure that I am doing what I think God would want me to do. I
:36:01. > :36:04.don't mean that in the sense that I am not responsible for what I am
:36:05. > :36:10.doing but try to keep in mind that God is there and guiding my hands,
:36:11. > :36:14.and helping me. Andrea Leadsom is part of the all-party Christians in
:36:15. > :36:19.Parliament group who meet to pray and study the Bible together. The
:36:20. > :36:23.chairman of the group says Christian conservatives in particular have had
:36:24. > :36:28.an image problem. Frankly over the last couple of decades Christians on
:36:29. > :36:32.the right, we have not helped ourselves by pinpointing a couple of
:36:33. > :36:36.issues and sometimes using the language. I think we are learning a
:36:37. > :36:41.lot but that is not the way forward. It doesn't express the love of the
:36:42. > :36:46.God we seek to follow. We've got to get over that. I don't blame people
:36:47. > :36:51.for thinking we are hung up on one or two issues. It was the case a few
:36:52. > :37:01.years ago. I hope increasingly it is not the case. Yet those issues,
:37:02. > :37:03.abortion and particularly gay marriage are important to many party
:37:04. > :37:06.activists who will be picking the next Prime Minister. David Cameron
:37:07. > :37:09.drew criticism from his grasp modes legislating for gay marriage about
:37:10. > :37:16.it being in the party manifesto. Today Andrea Leadsom said she would
:37:17. > :37:20.have preferred the law not to be changed. I would have preferred
:37:21. > :37:24.civil partnerships to be available to heterosexual and to gay couples
:37:25. > :37:32.and four marriage to have remained as a Christian service that was her
:37:33. > :37:38.men and women who wanted to commit in the eyes of God. But crucially
:37:39. > :37:41.Andrea Leadsom isn't proposing to change the law back. It seems we are
:37:42. > :37:42.a long way from the kind of religious rights are active in
:37:43. > :37:45.American politics. Well, to discuss this and the wider
:37:46. > :37:47.leadership race I'm joined by Conservative peer and commentator
:37:48. > :37:49.Danny Finkelstein, Guardian columnist Zoe Williams
:37:50. > :38:02.and Tim Montgomerie of the Times. And also the star of the film that
:38:03. > :38:08.we just saw! Is religion having a resurgence in the Conservative
:38:09. > :38:11.Party? I don't know but I welcome its overall influence. If you look
:38:12. > :38:16.at Theresa May and some of the flagship reforms she has pioneered
:38:17. > :38:22.against human trafficking, changing the stop and search laws that
:38:23. > :38:26.discriminated and targeted minority communities particularly in London,
:38:27. > :38:30.I think that sort of moral purpose... The Conservatives used to
:38:31. > :38:32.talk about economic issues and it was more up like a party of
:38:33. > :38:52.accountancy focus. I think what some of the Christians in the
:38:53. > :38:54.party have brought in is not an American right style of politics but
:38:55. > :38:57.it is a concern for bigger moral issues and I think it is overall
:38:58. > :38:59.very good. Andrea Leadsom and are interested in tackling the problems
:39:00. > :39:01.of young children, she wants much more spending on early intervention.
:39:02. > :39:06.They could not hold these views unless they went to church? No axed
:39:07. > :39:12.amuck sometimes I think there is coverage of the party claiming that
:39:13. > :39:16.they are only interested in gay rights or abortion, whereas if you
:39:17. > :39:20.go to a sermon in a church it is more likely to be on social justice
:39:21. > :39:23.and concern for the poor and we are seeing those Christians coming to
:39:24. > :39:29.the front of the party when they go week in, week out to cure about
:39:30. > :39:36.those issues in churches. Zoe, are you joining your hands in prayer? I
:39:37. > :39:40.am an atheist, all religions are equally ridiculous to me and I think
:39:41. > :39:44.the place of religion in politics is to create an authoritarian frame
:39:45. > :39:46.where one person establishes that authority over another, whether
:39:47. > :39:52.because they are heterosexual or think of themselves as more moral,
:39:53. > :39:57.that's equally problematic. And the weird thing is that Christians and
:39:58. > :40:02.politics are obsessed with sets. It's all about, sexuality and
:40:03. > :40:06.abortion. If they were more into equality, Jesus's big thing, we
:40:07. > :40:11.could talk. I don't keep abreast of major religions and maybe honesty is
:40:12. > :40:16.not a big thing any more yet I don't take either of these women seriously
:40:17. > :40:21.as people of faith when they are not honest. Leadsom all day long has
:40:22. > :40:25.been embellishing her CV and her achievements and her role in the
:40:26. > :40:30.financial sector. She insists she has done nothing of the sort. She
:40:31. > :40:35.called herself an investment manager when she was an age are at the time.
:40:36. > :40:39.She is not an honest person, I think. Bat she was in human
:40:40. > :40:48.resources at the time. So to take her as an honest voice in Christian
:40:49. > :40:52.politics is strange. Is it not the problem that if a politician can
:40:53. > :41:04.say, God told me to do it, then all bets are off? It is a bizarre
:41:05. > :41:09.metropolitan... To which by the way, I belong, idea that people who are
:41:10. > :41:12.Christian and outlandish. I am Jewish and I have never experienced
:41:13. > :41:20.Christianity in the Conservative Party as an oppressive force. I
:41:21. > :41:23.think Tim is correct. What has happened which is increased
:41:24. > :41:29.Christian activism in the party in the last 15 years has gone alongside
:41:30. > :41:32.increased social liberalism. Those two things have coexisted. I think
:41:33. > :41:39.we should not try to look into people's souls and tell them...
:41:40. > :41:44.Let's look entirely at the surface. Because on the surface it is the
:41:45. > :41:49.gender of the two leading candidates that the editors find most
:41:50. > :41:53.interesting. Zoe, do you dream of a day where we would not even notice
:41:54. > :41:59.that both candidates are women? That they will be a long time coming.
:42:00. > :42:03.It's extraordinary that the Conservatives should deliver an
:42:04. > :42:08.all-female short list, having ridiculed... There was an
:42:09. > :42:12.interesting tweet which I disagreed with which was the reason that
:42:13. > :42:16.conservatives are so good at women is that they don't obsess about
:42:17. > :42:21.identity politics like the left too. I don't agree. This has occurred
:42:22. > :42:29.acres of a bloodbath, a public school stitch up and then they all
:42:30. > :42:33.turned on each other, like Lord Of The Flies. And so happened that the
:42:34. > :42:37.only two people left all women. It's a triumph of deregulated free-market
:42:38. > :42:43.politics that yields the result is that the left-wingers would love to
:42:44. > :42:52.see. This is not proof of anything. No. The reason that the Labour
:42:53. > :42:57.Party, the left, boastful and saw women is because they thought women
:42:58. > :42:59.would vote Conservative. And for a long period of history the
:43:00. > :43:04.Conservative Party has done women are better than men. But it has
:43:05. > :43:10.stopped doing that and what many modernisers have wanted to achieved
:43:11. > :43:13.is that it should do that again. Two things, this is an encouraging
:43:14. > :43:18.development, secondly, only a small one. It comes despite the fact that
:43:19. > :43:23.we are still a long way from equality. Because these women did
:43:24. > :43:31.not come through all women short lists, they had to fight for seats.
:43:32. > :43:35.They became much better politicians because they had to overcome
:43:36. > :43:39.obstacles, sometimes more so, than the men face. Whereas the women who
:43:40. > :43:42.have come through the Labour Party haven't had that same element of
:43:43. > :43:51.political gorilla warfare that businesses are read to win these
:43:52. > :43:55.seats. For example? The Labour have all women short lists. Give an
:43:56. > :44:01.example of a rubbish Labour woman who would not have won a Tory seat.
:44:02. > :44:05.You haven't had a woman he'd still whereas the Tory party has a stream
:44:06. > :44:10.of women coming through. You don't seriously think these two women are
:44:11. > :44:14.the best politicians in the Conservative Party? I think Theresa
:44:15. > :44:22.May is incredibly impressive as a politician. You were backing Michael
:44:23. > :44:29.Gove at the weekend. I backed Boris Johnson committee would have been my
:44:30. > :44:33.choice. Go for the hat-trick, who will you back next? And that we will
:44:34. > :44:37.have a two-month contest because I have no idea what Theresa May thinks
:44:38. > :44:47.about, for example, Seve Javid and his idea of borrowing... Were not
:44:48. > :44:51.some of the Labour women suggesting that at the last general election?
:44:52. > :44:59.They was adjusting borrowing on every front! -- Sajid Javid. It's
:45:00. > :45:06.exactly the same, it just came from a Tory. I think the Conservative
:45:07. > :45:11.Party has a number of very good women and it is very good that we
:45:12. > :45:15.have to women in but that should not disguise the fact that the party and
:45:16. > :45:23.British politics is a long way from achieving equality in politics for
:45:24. > :45:25.women. The point is that not all women are feminists. Neither of
:45:26. > :45:32.these two will improve the lot of women. Thank you all very much. That
:45:33. > :45:43.is all that we have time for. Good night.
:45:44. > :45:51.Hello, not much changing over the next few days, more rain and some
:45:52. > :45:53.sunshine. Heavy rain overnight will clear from