:00:00. > :00:07.Are the Dallas police killings the latest manifestation
:00:08. > :00:13.of a racial divide in America, which is getting worse, not better?
:00:14. > :00:17.As unease grows across America, the city's police have started
:00:18. > :00:24.The suspect said he was upset at white people.
:00:25. > :00:27.The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people,
:00:28. > :00:33.Tonight, live from Dallas, the mother of an unarmed young man
:00:34. > :00:38.shot by Dallas police in 2013, and a minister who spoke
:00:39. > :00:40.at the protest before last night's shootings and the Chair
:00:41. > :00:43.of the National Black Police Association.
:00:44. > :00:46.ANNOUNCER: Big welcome for Jeremy Corbyn.
:00:47. > :00:49.Also tonight, will the Labour leader be happy with the results
:00:50. > :00:55.Jeremy Corbyn has campaigned all his adult life for unilateral
:00:56. > :00:58.nuclear disarmament, but Newsnight has learned that
:00:59. > :01:01.a Labour defence review leaves the door open for the possible
:01:02. > :01:11.retention of nuclear weapons by a future Labour government.
:01:12. > :01:21.Norman? Send in the Chancellor. Yes leader.
:01:22. > :01:23.The next Prime Minister is being viewed through the prism
:01:24. > :01:25.of the Iron Lady, so what's the verdict
:01:26. > :01:31.I find I'm driven inevitably to support Andrea Leadsom, despite her
:01:32. > :01:33.lack of experience. And on Artsnight - Bowie,
:01:34. > :01:36.Bedlam and the great outdoors. Maria Balshaw of The Whitworth
:01:37. > :01:38.in Manchester on the The murder of five police officers
:01:39. > :01:54.in Dallas during a protest sparked by the killing of two
:01:55. > :01:56.African American men by police in Minnesota and Louisiana,
:01:57. > :01:58.has compounded the twin problems of guns and racial tension that
:01:59. > :02:03.are besetting America. President Obama said that the police
:02:04. > :02:07.deaths were a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices the police make,
:02:08. > :02:09.and before the shootings, he had expressed solidarity
:02:10. > :02:12.with the protesters after the most Obama has said repeatedly
:02:13. > :02:17.that his failure to pass what he called "common sense gun
:02:18. > :02:19.safety laws" is the greatest But perhaps too, his failure to turn
:02:20. > :02:25.into reality the now seemingly impossible dream
:02:26. > :02:29.of a "post-racial" America. We'll hear the story
:02:30. > :02:33.of the day in a moment. But first, joining us from Dallas,
:02:34. > :02:37.is Malik Aziz, who is a Dallas police officer and also chair
:02:38. > :02:51.of the National Black Police First tonight, can you tell me, what
:02:52. > :02:55.is the atmosphere in Dallas today? I can tell you from a couple of
:02:56. > :03:01.perspectives. Our hearts are very heavy here in Dallas. Our
:03:02. > :03:05.condolences, thoughts and prayers are going down to the five officers
:03:06. > :03:14.that were lost here last night. But the atmosphere is very sombre. The
:03:15. > :03:18.outreach of love and support from citizens here, and from our friends
:03:19. > :03:23.around the world and across the United States, they have given us so
:03:24. > :03:29.much love to prop us up at such a traumatic time and a time of need.
:03:30. > :03:33.So the atmosphere is very sombre. In my 27 years in law enforcement I
:03:34. > :03:39.have never had a day like this where I have felt this way, the worst day
:03:40. > :03:45.of my career, and many others who have been here way longer than I
:03:46. > :03:51.have. Of the wounded, are any office is critical, or does it look like
:03:52. > :03:56.they will all pull through? I believe, and we pray, that the worst
:03:57. > :04:01.has passed, and we will not lose another officer. That's what we are
:04:02. > :04:06.praying. I think we will make it over that hump. With the love and
:04:07. > :04:11.support and prayers of people around the world, I think we can do that.
:04:12. > :04:17.It's still tragic to lose five of the most talented officers who were
:04:18. > :04:23.very courageous. I would want your viewers to know that in the face of
:04:24. > :04:31.danger, when people were running away, our job and responsibility,
:04:32. > :04:41.our call to duty caused those officers to run into harm's way.
:04:42. > :04:47.This mad coward who decided to take the lives of some of our best and
:04:48. > :04:53.finest. You talk about a gunman in the singular. Earlier there were
:04:54. > :05:00.more suspects. Have you settled that this was certainly a man acting
:05:01. > :05:04.alone now? The Dallas police have been very thorough. We believe we
:05:05. > :05:09.have one of the best investigative entities in the nation and across
:05:10. > :05:14.the world. They have taken, through great pain, they have turned over
:05:15. > :05:21.every stone, looked under every rock and in every crevice, and we believe
:05:22. > :05:26.when the chief police comes out to make a statement, we are sure he
:05:27. > :05:35.confirm it was a loan madman acting alone, on himself. But we act with
:05:36. > :05:39.due diligence, and if we make an arrest and detain anyone, it's for
:05:40. > :05:46.the betterment of the city, for a safer environment in where we live,
:05:47. > :05:49.work and play. We'll get to the bottom of it. We want to make sure
:05:50. > :05:53.that all that happened was that he was alone, and we will not stop
:05:54. > :05:58.until we find out everything we need to know. In a moment we will speak
:05:59. > :06:06.to Collette Flanagan, one of the founders of Mothers Against Police
:06:07. > :06:09.Brutality. Her son was shot by police in 2013. I understand you
:06:10. > :06:17.have changed your policing model in Dallas. What has changed? Under
:06:18. > :06:24.chief Brown we have always had a commitment to community engagement.
:06:25. > :06:29.Many people have a belief that police across the world is
:06:30. > :06:34.monolithic. It's 800,000 police here, and 18,000 police departments.
:06:35. > :06:40.Dallas is just one of them. We are not without our troubles and errors.
:06:41. > :06:44.We are not without some form of challenge or barrier. Unfortunately
:06:45. > :06:49.we can't do everything 100%, but we strive to. There have been things
:06:50. > :06:53.along the way. But community policing and community engagement,
:06:54. > :06:58.every chief has expanded on that to make it better. I believe our
:06:59. > :07:02.current chief, David Brown, has done an exceptional job in compound in
:07:03. > :07:07.this and making it better and in gauging with the community. That
:07:08. > :07:11.takes growth, a partnership, and police and community working
:07:12. > :07:15.together. -- engaging with the community. Sometimes we might
:07:16. > :07:20.disagree, but we do not want to stand still. We have to do is put
:07:21. > :07:24.our best foot forward. My condolences go out to the families
:07:25. > :07:30.whose sons and daughters here and across the nation have been killed
:07:31. > :07:34.in officer involved shootings. We would not have hearts or compassion
:07:35. > :07:38.if we did not say that. We have to understand that in the Dallas police
:07:39. > :07:42.we strive for a more professional model. But we are not without our
:07:43. > :07:44.faults. Thank you very much for joining us.
:07:45. > :07:51.Well, here's Secunder Karmani on the how the day's event's unfolded.
:07:52. > :08:06.It started as one more protest against yet more police shootings of
:08:07. > :08:16.black men in America. Go, go! It descended into terror as shots rang
:08:17. > :08:23.out. Get back! Protesters ran in fear for their lives. This seemed a
:08:24. > :08:29.coordinated attack. And it had a clear target, the police. Just
:08:30. > :08:34.started shooting, all the police, I saw them bending over. There were
:08:35. > :08:41.five or six cops all getting shot down. A total of five officers were
:08:42. > :08:45.killed and seven others were injured. Here you see the desperate
:08:46. > :08:53.efforts by some to care for their wounded colleagues. One of the
:08:54. > :08:57.gunman fires at officers from behind a pillar. Moments later in seems to
:08:58. > :09:05.graphic to show, he shoots a policeman at point-blank range. Two
:09:06. > :09:08.suspects were arrested following a police chase, and a third was
:09:09. > :09:14.detained elsewhere in the city. Another, who had been holed up in a
:09:15. > :09:17.car park with a stand-off with police was killed after they
:09:18. > :09:22.detonated a bomb they sent in with a robot. He has been named locally as
:09:23. > :09:28.Micah Johnson, a former US Army reserve. Before being killed he
:09:29. > :09:36.spoke to police negotiators about his motivation. The suspect said he
:09:37. > :09:41.was upset about black lives matter. He said he was upset about the
:09:42. > :09:48.recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people.
:09:49. > :09:52.The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white
:09:53. > :09:58.officers. He was trying to get out his ID, his wallet out his pocket,
:09:59. > :10:02.and he let the officer know that he was... He had a firearm but was
:10:03. > :10:11.reaching for his wallet. And the officer just shot him in his arm.
:10:12. > :10:16.This is one of the shocking police shootings he was referring to. On
:10:17. > :10:19.Wednesday, a woman in Minnesota broadcast live on Facebook moments
:10:20. > :10:25.after her boyfriend was shot by police. Oh my God, please don't tell
:10:26. > :10:29.me he's dead. Please don't tell me my brief and just went like that.
:10:30. > :10:38.Yes, I will keep my hands where they are. The video caused outrage.
:10:39. > :10:46.Despite her boyfriend's injuries, the woman is handcuffed and detained
:10:47. > :10:51.but continues to stream live. Her boyfriend's death was the 507th at
:10:52. > :10:58.the hands of police in America this year. 123 of whom were black.
:10:59. > :11:03.Earlier this week a man in Louisiana was also shot by police, despite
:11:04. > :11:08.apparently being held down. The publicised spate of police killings
:11:09. > :11:12.by black men, many recorded on camera beginning in 2014 lead to a
:11:13. > :11:21.newly energised black rights movement. Now some armed groups have
:11:22. > :11:26.gone completely legally bringing weapons to protests, they say in
:11:27. > :11:30.order to protect themselves. This is the Newton gun club in Dallas,
:11:31. > :11:36.filmed earlier this year for a BBC documentary. They were at the
:11:37. > :11:42.protest last night but say they were not connected to the shooting at
:11:43. > :11:48.all. Dallas is grieving tonight. The question is, our events there the
:11:49. > :11:53.beginning of more violence? Most say no, but race elections will be
:11:54. > :11:57.affected. What I feel has changed in America in the relationship between
:11:58. > :12:01.police and the African-American community, I feel like it's made
:12:02. > :12:06.things worse. Part of the reason why the police chief in Dallas kept
:12:07. > :12:13.saying, we need to find a way to come together and end divisiveness,
:12:14. > :12:17.is because this adds to divisiveness. Because this shooter
:12:18. > :12:21.happened to the African-American, people won't look at this as being
:12:22. > :12:26.one horrible individual who did a terrible thing, it will become an
:12:27. > :12:29.indictment on the Black Lives Matter movement, and people will accuse the
:12:30. > :12:34.movement of doing it, when amusement had nothing to do with this
:12:35. > :12:42.individual. For America's law enforcement, this has been the sing
:12:43. > :12:47.single largest loss of life since 9/11. It feeds into issues of race
:12:48. > :12:50.and gun control, both issues America has long grappled with.
:12:51. > :12:52.Joining me now from downtown Dallas is Reverend Michael Waters,
:12:53. > :12:57.who spoke at yesterday's protest and witnessed the shootings.
:12:58. > :12:59.And Collette Flanagan, a founder of Mothers Against Police Brutality,
:13:00. > :13:01.whose own son was shot dead by Dallas police
:13:02. > :13:14.Good evening to both of you. I wonder if you heard our reporter
:13:15. > :13:17.there, Michael, talking about the possible deterioration in race
:13:18. > :13:24.relations. I wonder what your job has been like today as a minister.
:13:25. > :13:31.Part of my job today has been to paint a picture of what transpired
:13:32. > :13:35.last night in totality. What began as a beautiful movement for Justice,
:13:36. > :13:42.representative of all ethnicities, genders and background, once it had
:13:43. > :13:46.been dismissed was met with violence by somebody who was not a
:13:47. > :13:52.participant at a gathering. I wanted to share with the world that it was
:13:53. > :13:55.a beautiful night, a just night, a night of peace and collaboration
:13:56. > :14:01.between police officers and those coming for the rally and for the
:14:02. > :14:04.march. I want to let the world know we are grieving and hurting even
:14:05. > :14:11.more so than when we came together last night. Collette Flanagan, I
:14:12. > :14:16.know you were not actually at the demonstration last night, but as a
:14:17. > :14:19.founder of Mothers Against Police Brutality, let me take you back to
:14:20. > :14:23.the events of Minnesota and Louisiana and say that they must
:14:24. > :14:29.bring terrible reminders of your own son's death.
:14:30. > :14:37.I am sorry, I could not understand the last part of that. I said people
:14:38. > :14:41.were out in protest last night because of the recent killings in
:14:42. > :14:48.Louisiana and Minnesota. They must have brought back memories of your
:14:49. > :14:58.own son's death. Absolutely. To lose a child is devastating, especially
:14:59. > :15:09.when you lose a child to police brutality. My thoughts were with the
:15:10. > :15:15.families that lost their children. Yes, it raises lots of emotions.
:15:16. > :15:25.Tell me, in your view, is there the same level of Justice in America now
:15:26. > :15:33.for black members of the American community and white members? Is the
:15:34. > :15:39.level of justice the same, as far as you are concerned? Absolutely not.
:15:40. > :15:48.We know that a black man, executed or killed more than white
:15:49. > :15:53.counterparts by policemen. There are statistics that prove that. For
:15:54. > :15:57.instance, in Dallas alone, there have been over 60 families that have
:15:58. > :16:07.lost children through police brutality in the last ten years. The
:16:08. > :16:14.last time a policeman was indicted for shooting an unarmed and mentally
:16:15. > :16:19.ill person in Dallas was 1973, when Richard Nixon was president. There
:16:20. > :16:23.is definitely an injustice with senseless police killings in Dallas.
:16:24. > :16:29.It is the untold story that is waiting to be told. Michael, I
:16:30. > :16:38.wonder what your view is on the disparity of justice. This is a
:16:39. > :16:43.historical disparity and it covers the totality of the African-
:16:44. > :16:49.American experience. There is a wealth disparity, a health discount
:16:50. > :16:57.that is not the disparity, an educational disparity and a justice
:16:58. > :17:02.disparity. All of this adds up and oftentimes comes to boiling points,
:17:03. > :17:09.such as BC in America today. We have never fully address the issue of
:17:10. > :17:13.America's greatest and original saying, the issue of racism and how
:17:14. > :17:19.it has manifested itself throughout the totality of our society. I
:17:20. > :17:27.suggest you would think that was compounded by the lack of gun
:17:28. > :17:33.control. Well, we know that a black man carrying a gun is oftentimes
:17:34. > :17:39.treated differently than a white man ( a gun. It causes you to question
:17:40. > :17:47.the validity of that law. -- carrying. Are the rights extended
:17:48. > :17:53.for all or for some? Time and again, we have borne the very painful
:17:54. > :17:57.witness that many of the laws in this country are not all but
:17:58. > :18:02.constructed for some. I want to put it to you that Barack Obama has said
:18:03. > :18:05.his great frustration is his failure to have dealt with guns in America.
:18:06. > :18:13.Do you believe it is a failure of his? I am sorry, I could not hear
:18:14. > :18:19.the last part. Do you believe that Barack Obama believes that he has
:18:20. > :18:26.failed to deal with guns in America? It has been one of his big failures,
:18:27. > :18:32.he says. Absolutely. That is a huge problem in America. We have not
:18:33. > :18:36.figured out how to exercise our second amendment with keeping
:18:37. > :18:44.everyone's Civil Liberties and civil rights intact. Just like in police
:18:45. > :18:50.departments, we have to have data on who is getting guns and who should
:18:51. > :18:55.not have guns. We have to have data, how many people have been killed by
:18:56. > :18:58.policemen. We have 18,000 police also is. We live in a nation where
:18:59. > :19:07.we can tell you how money people have blue eyes but we have no
:19:08. > :19:15.database to tell you how many people have been killed by policemen. We
:19:16. > :19:19.have to have gun control and police brutality and registration and
:19:20. > :19:25.writing legislation for police brutality. We needed on a federal
:19:26. > :19:28.level. Thank you both for joining us tonight. Thank you.
:19:29. > :19:31.In just over a week's time David Cameron is expected to call
:19:32. > :19:34.a vote on the renewal of Britain's nuclear deterrent, and when he does
:19:35. > :19:36.it will put Jeremy Corbyn, himself ardently anti-Trident,
:19:37. > :19:42.He will be in collision, not only with many Labour
:19:43. > :19:45.MPs, but also with some of the trade unions.
:19:46. > :19:47.And, as our Political Editor Nick Watt reveals,
:19:48. > :19:53.the much-vaunted Labour Review on Nuclear Weapons, spearheaded
:19:54. > :20:07.by Emily Thornberry, may not be going to go his way either.
:20:08. > :20:14.In a month's time, Jeremy Corbyn will be marking the 71st anniversary
:20:15. > :20:20.of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. Last year, at the height of Corbyn-
:20:21. > :20:25.mania during the Labour leadership contest, he came to the Washington
:20:26. > :20:28.Memorial in the Central London Square to highlight his lifelong
:20:29. > :20:32.opposition to nuclear weapons. That is why we are going to be here,
:20:33. > :20:38.every year, for as long as it takes to bring about our dream, our
:20:39. > :20:42.collective dream, the world free of nuclear weapons. Thank you very
:20:43. > :20:47.much. Many Labour members who voted for Jeremy Corbyn in the Labour
:20:48. > :20:52.leadership contest felt that his presence, like the Hiroshima
:20:53. > :20:57.memorial, and the language used in the rally, guaranteed and no ifs, no
:20:58. > :21:01.buts approach to unilateral disarmament. Newsnight has learned
:21:02. > :21:05.that the Labour defence review under his leadership will leave the door
:21:06. > :21:12.open to a continuing UK nuclear deterrent. I understand that the
:21:13. > :21:16.review into the future of the UK passed back nuclear weapons system
:21:17. > :21:21.is still a work in progress and will need to be refreshed after the EU
:21:22. > :21:26.referendum result. It has at its heart five tests a future Labour
:21:27. > :21:31.government would evaluate to decide whether to support continuing
:21:32. > :21:34.nuclear deterrent. The five tests ask whether the nuclear deterrent
:21:35. > :21:37.would make a demonstrable contribution to the friends of the
:21:38. > :21:44.UK, whether it would represent value for money, have an impact on jobs
:21:45. > :21:50.and development, whether it would make a contribution to multilateral
:21:51. > :21:54.disarmament and stand the test of time in the face of new
:21:55. > :21:59.technologies. Newsnight understands that Jeremy Corbyn believes that the
:22:00. > :22:02.report could provide a middle way between outright disarmament and
:22:03. > :22:09.maintaining a full-scale nuclear weapons system. Under this thinking,
:22:10. > :22:12.the UK could fulfil its new treaty obligations to take active steps
:22:13. > :22:17.towards disarmament by allowing Trident to run its course or by
:22:18. > :22:23.reducing the number of submarines and warheads. I know CNC supporters
:22:24. > :22:28.have huge respect for Jeremy Corbyn and they know his personal
:22:29. > :22:32.commitment. -- CND. They will appreciate the challenges he has
:22:33. > :22:35.faced in bringing the rest of his parliamentary party with him put I
:22:36. > :22:38.do think there will be disappointed in a defensively that raises more
:22:39. > :22:44.questions than it answers. It means you cannot look at the Labour Party
:22:45. > :22:46.led by Jeremy Corbyn and be sure it will be standing for unilateral
:22:47. > :22:52.nuclear disarmament, which is what he promised. One long-standing
:22:53. > :22:59.Labour ally in the campaign for nuclear disarmament is relaxed about
:23:00. > :23:06.the tests in a bid to abandon the nuclear deterrent. I have my own
:23:07. > :23:09.view about the tests. People, not only CND members, that people who
:23:10. > :23:15.look objectively at the situation Britain is in its requirements for
:23:16. > :23:20.defence, the economic resources it has available, my view is that
:23:21. > :23:25.people would be inclined to think it was not good value for money. A
:23:26. > :23:30.halfway house option which could see a Labour government under Jeremy
:23:31. > :23:35.Corbyn retaining a reduced programme as a first step towards his lifelong
:23:36. > :23:41.goal of ridding Britain of its nuclear weapons would naturally be
:23:42. > :23:46.unacceptable to CND. I think there are very compelling reasons why we
:23:47. > :23:50.do not need to have nuclear weapons. They are unusable, they are weapons
:23:51. > :23:56.of mass destruction, they are very expensive. They do not meet our
:23:57. > :24:00.security needs. Having less of them, OK, maybe that is a step forward.
:24:01. > :24:04.Still we have less of something we do not need. Really we have to have
:24:05. > :24:08.nothing of what we do not need. Labour supporters of the nuclear
:24:09. > :24:14.deterrent believe the entire defence review is redundant anyway. I do not
:24:15. > :24:20.see how all of these studies take the argument forward at all. If the
:24:21. > :24:24.potential future Prime Minister has already decided he will never use
:24:25. > :24:29.these weapons, he does not believe in nuclear deterrence. You may as
:24:30. > :24:33.well not have any nuclear weapons at all. Until that fundamental
:24:34. > :24:39.conundrum is resolved, I think the study probably does not add up to a
:24:40. > :24:45.row of beans. In a few weeks' time, Jeremy Corbyn is expected to retrace
:24:46. > :24:49.his steps to the Hiroshima memorial with the burden of leadership and
:24:50. > :24:53.the need to broker an agreement in his divided party. His language
:24:54. > :24:58.issue is likely to be less clear-cut.
:24:59. > :25:01.Tata Steel has postponed plans to sell some of its UK operations -
:25:02. > :25:05.According to the Business Secretary the decision by the UK to leave
:25:06. > :25:08.the EU has added a fresh layer of uncertainty for
:25:09. > :25:11.However Tata also said they are in early talks
:25:12. > :25:13.with Thyssen Krupp, a big European steel manufacturer
:25:14. > :25:14.about the possibility of a joint venture.
:25:15. > :25:20.I'm joined by our business editor, Helen Thomas.
:25:21. > :25:29.Helen, remind us of how we got here. This has been dragging on for three
:25:30. > :25:34.long months. Tata Steel said it wanted to sell its UK business. It
:25:35. > :25:40.was making considerable losses. What they are saying now is they want to
:25:41. > :25:44.sell some parts of it. Certain businesses in Hartlepool and
:25:45. > :25:48.Yorkshire. They are talking to a big German company about the joint
:25:49. > :25:56.venture. Now, the vote to leave the EU added a whole layer of extra
:25:57. > :26:03.questions about this business. I am told the sales process had ground to
:26:04. > :26:07.a halt. The bits that Tata steel got just came at too high a cost to the
:26:08. > :26:15.company and they decided to go down this all turn to fruit. What does
:26:16. > :26:18.this mean for the workforce? -- all turn it if route. The workforce has
:26:19. > :26:27.little clarity today, as yesterday. What I'm confident of is that Tata
:26:28. > :26:30.is doing everything it can, we are providing all
:26:31. > :26:32.the support we can. I'm actually encouraged by this news
:26:33. > :26:34.today that they are talking to a partner and thinking
:26:35. > :26:37.about forming this joint venture because I think having another
:26:38. > :26:47.option is just the kind of news In a narrow sense, this is good
:26:48. > :26:54.news. Tata has not walked away from this raises some other questions. It
:26:55. > :26:58.is widely thought by analyst investors that the German company
:26:59. > :27:01.would rather get out of European steel-making altogether and focus on
:27:02. > :27:06.other countries. They have been very vocal about the need for
:27:07. > :27:11.consolidation on European steel. They say it is too big for the end
:27:12. > :27:16.demand. That suggests that any combination could still mean
:27:17. > :27:21.cost-cutting, still mean job losses. The aim would be to create a bigger,
:27:22. > :27:27.more profitable company that ultimately would be easier to sell.
:27:28. > :27:32.I think this is progress in a small way but there are obstacles to doing
:27:33. > :27:36.this deal and I have been told tonight that separating, or
:27:37. > :27:41.overhauling, the pension fund attached to the Tata steel business
:27:42. > :27:45.is a prerequisite. And the Government has two figure that out.
:27:46. > :27:47.The new Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
:27:48. > :27:50.is going to be a women, that much is clear.
:27:51. > :27:54.To judge by the newspaper headlines she'll be measured against Margaret
:27:55. > :27:57.Now newspaper headlines are by nature reductive, but really?
:27:58. > :28:00.Is it because she'll be taking on the European Union OR,
:28:01. > :28:02.is it because the Conservatives, despite John Major, William Hague,
:28:03. > :28:05.Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Howard and David Cameron still can't see
:28:06. > :28:07.past Margaret Thatcher, or imagine another female model?
:28:08. > :28:09.Well, this evening we spoke to Lord Tebbit, who was one
:28:10. > :28:12.of Mrs Thatcher's closest allies in government and one
:28:13. > :28:14.of the most assiduous keepers of the Thatcherite flame.
:28:15. > :28:19.What does he make of the comparisons?
:28:20. > :28:23.Andrea Leadsom is more of an unknown quantity.
:28:24. > :28:27.She's relatively inexperienced as a politician and as a minister
:28:28. > :28:33.but she seems to have about her qualities,
:28:34. > :28:36.some of the qualities, which Thatcher had.
:28:37. > :28:39.Thatcher was, of course, marked by being Middle England,
:28:40. > :28:46.middle-class, shopkeeper's daughter, devout nonconformist Christian,
:28:47. > :28:57.Leadsom has a couple of those advantages at any rate.
:28:58. > :29:01.I find that I'm driven inevitably to support Andrea Leadsom,
:29:02. > :29:08.She will have a lot of good people round about her,
:29:09. > :29:13.not fellow politicians alone, but the civil service.
:29:14. > :29:20.From my time in government, I have the civil service in high regard.
:29:21. > :29:21.Lord Tebbitt had less complimentary words
:29:22. > :29:28.I don't see the fact that Theresa May has been in one
:29:29. > :29:34.department for a long time is particularly relevant.
:29:35. > :29:36.What would be more relevant would be if she had been
:29:37. > :29:43.If the police were firmly on the side of the Government,
:29:44. > :29:48.and if we had got immigration down to the target which she was
:29:49. > :30:04.But we're way, way, way away from that.
:30:05. > :30:06.Norman Tebbit there with his views on the current state
:30:07. > :30:17.An extraordinary headline in the Times. Being a mother gives me the
:30:18. > :30:22.edge on Theresa May. Generally I feel being a man means you have very
:30:23. > :30:26.real stake in the future of the country, a tangible state. Andrea
:30:27. > :30:30.Leadsom has responded saying, truly appalling and the exact opposite of
:30:31. > :30:37.what I said. I am disgusted is what she said. Now, straight to Arts
:30:38. > :30:41.night. London, Edinburgh, Bristol and York
:30:42. > :30:54.all five for the price.