:00:00. > :00:10.A shopping centre in Munich is targeted by up to three attackers
:00:11. > :00:15.leaving at least eight dead and many more injured.
:00:16. > :00:17.TRANSLATION: There are many badly injured, our crisis team is
:00:18. > :00:20.taking care of about 100 people and all the police forces
:00:21. > :00:27.Police are still hunting the attackers as hundreds of people
:00:28. > :00:32.are stranded by a public transport shutdown in the city.
:00:33. > :00:35.It's still a developing situation, but the German police say they're
:00:36. > :00:41.And we're at the Republican National Convention,
:00:42. > :00:44.gauging the reaction to Trump's vision for his presidency
:00:45. > :00:49.and his plan to take the fight to Hillary.
:00:50. > :00:55.The most important difference between our plan and that of our
:00:56. > :01:08.opponent is that our plan will put America first. CHEERING
:01:09. > :01:12.Abject and bloody terror has been visited upon another European city
:01:13. > :01:18.tonight and its perpetrators are still at large in Munich.
:01:19. > :01:20.Local police report that eight people were killed
:01:21. > :01:23.and many more severely injured after up to three gunmen
:01:24. > :01:27.opened fire at a shopping centre in the German city's Moosach
:01:28. > :01:29.district just over six and a half hours ago.
:01:30. > :01:32.Public transport has been suspended, citizens have been advised to stay
:01:33. > :01:34.indoors and the authorities have described an acute
:01:35. > :01:51.A gunman opens fire on a Munich street just before 4pm this
:01:52. > :02:00.afternoon. GUNFIRE People around the area fleet, as
:02:01. > :02:04.there's more shop inside the Olympia shopping centre just across the
:02:05. > :02:07.road. -- more shots. It is in the north-west of Munich. Eyewitnesses
:02:08. > :02:15.in the shopping centre described the scene. TRANSLATION: My wife and
:02:16. > :02:18.daughter are missing. I was inside the shopping centre that my wife
:02:19. > :02:22.wasn't with me. I still have stuff to do and she wanted to go to
:02:23. > :02:27.another shop. I said, go ahead, with my daughter, and I will, to you
:02:28. > :02:31.afterwards. I saw people running out with them and I asked what is going
:02:32. > :02:37.on, no one had a clue. Only one man said there is a man with a gun he
:02:38. > :02:41.was shooting other people. The situation is still very unclear and
:02:42. > :02:44.developing but police say there are at least eight casualties with up to
:02:45. > :02:50.three gunmen involved and still on the run.
:02:51. > :02:56.TRANSLATION: There are many badly injured, our crisis team is taking
:02:57. > :02:57.care of about 100 people and all the police forces are busy with the
:02:58. > :03:04.manhunt. It's the panic there were reports of
:03:05. > :03:08.shootings elsewhere in this city although they now appear not to be
:03:09. > :03:14.correct. Police have told people to stay indoors. Metro and bus services
:03:15. > :03:19.have been stopped and the area around the shopping more has been
:03:20. > :03:22.blocked off by police. Other videos of the attack at or attackers have
:03:23. > :03:27.also appeared. Here, one walks around a car park roof with a
:03:28. > :03:31.handgun. In an extraordinary exchange with an onlooker, he
:03:32. > :03:38.apparently insults Turks and says, "I am German". Could this be a clue
:03:39. > :03:42.to his motives? An attack by far right extremists on the fifth
:03:43. > :03:47.anniversary of the attack by Anders Breivik in Norway. Police have said
:03:48. > :03:51.they are treating it as suspected terrorism, but we don't know any
:03:52. > :03:54.more. The idea of taking a gun and shooting in a public location is
:03:55. > :03:58.something we have seen repeatedly being used by groups with also sub
:03:59. > :04:04.ideology is. We recently saw a spree shooting in a nightclub. Anders
:04:05. > :04:10.Breivik used guns to kill lots of people. It is something we have seen
:04:11. > :04:14.different ideologies using. It is a basic fundamental ideology, get a
:04:15. > :04:18.gun and shoots lots of people. If you have a gun you can kill quite a
:04:19. > :04:22.few people and have a high impact. Earlier this week Germany
:04:23. > :04:27.experienced its first Isis related attack when a teenage refugee armed
:04:28. > :04:32.with an axe targeted passengers on a train. Another possibility is that
:04:33. > :04:36.today buzz events are the latest in a series of jihadi attacks in Europe
:04:37. > :04:40.-- today's events. Whatever the motive, if it is at all political
:04:41. > :04:44.comment could have a far-reaching impact in Germany. Tonight, though,
:04:45. > :04:47.the search for those responsible still continues.
:04:48. > :04:51.Well Andrew Plant can now join us from Munich.
:04:52. > :04:58.Good evening. What is the very latest situation?
:04:59. > :05:00.A lot of confusion here when we landed
:05:01. > :05:03.because, obviously, most people are coming here just to try to get
:05:04. > :05:05.back to their homes, but told they can't
:05:06. > :05:07.get their normal buses and taxis into the city
:05:08. > :05:09.centre, because so many roads are closed.
:05:10. > :05:16.It shows you the lockdown Munich city centre is in right now.
:05:17. > :05:19.The latest, as we understand it, here on the manhunt is this:
:05:20. > :05:21.Eyewitnesses are saying there were three men with guns.
:05:22. > :05:24.There are reports that one of those men has died.
:05:25. > :05:25.Police haven't confirmed that, but they have
:05:26. > :05:34.Possibly three men on the run right now. Metro quickly evacuated because
:05:35. > :05:37.one person had said the gunmen had gone underground. Quickly evacuated
:05:38. > :05:40.and searched, no reports of any arrest. We have heard that police
:05:41. > :05:44.are being drafted in from Austria. We are only about 50 miles away here
:05:45. > :05:47.from the German-Austrian border. We also know that German
:05:48. > :05:49.officials have said so they are beefing up
:05:50. > :05:55.their border security. That shows you the scale of the
:05:56. > :05:59.manhunt is not just in Munich but potentially over a much wider area.
:06:00. > :06:02.What is the mood amongst all very people? You mentioned the lockdown
:06:03. > :06:04.and confusion that many of the streets will be deserted, of course.
:06:05. > :06:11.Track but many. Munich police have used social media
:06:12. > :06:15.to their benefit. In the first hour or so they used social media to ask
:06:16. > :06:19.people not to share pictures of the attack but they also used it to get
:06:20. > :06:22.a wide message out to a lot of people very quickly. They said,
:06:23. > :06:26.please stay away from the streets of Munich. If you are at home, stay at
:06:27. > :06:30.home, don't come outside until we know what the situation is. They use
:06:31. > :06:42.it to contact local taxi drivers, not to pick up fares and bring them
:06:43. > :06:45.into the city centre. One more thing going on, to help people who are in
:06:46. > :06:47.Munich perhaps stranded and not sure where to go to take shelter. People
:06:48. > :06:50.had been tweeting with the hashtag open door. If you are stuck and
:06:51. > :06:53.don't know where to go, you can look on twitter, find someone who has
:06:54. > :06:56.been tweeting that hashtag. There are lots of them out there right
:06:57. > :06:58.now, you can go to their home and they will give you sang tree until
:06:59. > :07:01.people know what is going on right now. Thank you.
:07:02. > :07:05.Our Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban is here in the studio.
:07:06. > :07:12.As we have heard, it is a fast moving and incredibly fluid
:07:13. > :07:15.situation in Munich. What are the challenges the police are facing in
:07:16. > :07:19.getting inaccurate picture of what has happened and ideally, of course,
:07:20. > :07:25.catching the people responsible? -- an accurate. We have seen this from
:07:26. > :07:30.a number of incidents, echo chamber of social media and people reporting
:07:31. > :07:34.things, some distortion, perhaps, as to what we are actually looking at.
:07:35. > :07:38.Are there multiple shooters, really? We saw this report in Dallas when it
:07:39. > :07:43.happened a couple of weeks ago. It turned out to be one. Long firearms,
:07:44. > :07:47.rifle type weapons? I very much doubt it. Bubbly people seeing
:07:48. > :07:52.plainclothes police getting involved. Arch probably people. At
:07:53. > :07:56.the last few hours, no reports of gunshots -- probably people. The
:07:57. > :08:01.police have suggested that the ninth person they found dead may well be
:08:02. > :08:05.the gunmen in Black, who we saw in that film. One has to ask, were
:08:06. > :08:09.there ever another one or two? If there were, given the absence of any
:08:10. > :08:13.ongoing incidents in the last hour or two, it is possible they had
:08:14. > :08:16.escaped but equally possible and looking increasingly likely, that
:08:17. > :08:20.this is a lone gunmen who may now have taken his own life. You
:08:21. > :08:25.mentioned the other incidents we have seen in the continent on the
:08:26. > :08:29.last few weeks and months. We don't know that much about the German
:08:30. > :08:34.authorities's capacity to cope. Does it differ from the French, for
:08:35. > :08:37.example? It would be fair to say that when you talk to the British
:08:38. > :08:42.people, military and police who might be involved in this, they look
:08:43. > :08:46.with some envy at the capabilities that those two countries can deploy.
:08:47. > :08:51.If we look at the situation in Germany, for example, to night, I
:08:52. > :08:58.can see officers from the special armed unit of the city police and
:08:59. > :09:03.also a special unit commander SEK, almost like SAS assault forced
:09:04. > :09:07.deployed by the state police and they were there incredibly quickly
:09:08. > :09:12.at that shopping centre. It is an impressive response. The analogous
:09:13. > :09:16.place would be Manchester or Glasgow. You talk to the police and
:09:17. > :09:20.there is a pretty small number of specialist firearms officers on duty
:09:21. > :09:24.even in those large British cities on the average day. It is a very
:09:25. > :09:29.extensive response the Germans can bring. Also some other resources
:09:30. > :09:33.coming in, GS, G nine, national SAS type unit is also on its way down to
:09:34. > :09:36.Munich. If there are the people are at large, they will probably run
:09:37. > :09:39.them to ground quite quickly. Thank you very much.
:09:40. > :09:41.Joining me via Skype from Berlin is Yassin Musharbash,
:09:42. > :09:48.terrorism analyst for the German national weekly paper, Die Zeit.
:09:49. > :09:55.Many thanks for your time. We have heard some speculation that it may
:09:56. > :10:00.be a Lone Wolf attacker with perhaps no affiliations. The alternative, of
:10:01. > :10:03.course, it even recent events in Nice and elsewhere is that there
:10:04. > :10:08.will be an Islamist subtext to this attack, tell us a bit about the
:10:09. > :10:15.situation in Germany. With regard to the fear of Islamist terrorism. The
:10:16. > :10:20.fear is large. Only a couple of days ago we witnessed a terror attack in
:10:21. > :10:23.Germany. The first one, as a matter of fact, that was claimed by the
:10:24. > :10:31.Islamic State. This was on the train? Exactly. Everybody here was
:10:32. > :10:35.on high alert already. As the news broke, after the shooting incident
:10:36. > :10:37.in Munich, I believe what most people assumed immediately was that
:10:38. > :10:45.this is most likely get hardest attack. -- jihadist. As your
:10:46. > :10:49.correspondence that, we do not know. It is too early to say at this
:10:50. > :10:56.moment. All options are still on the table. Ranging from a single shooter
:10:57. > :11:00.to a jihadist cell of three people, some of whom may perhaps still be on
:11:01. > :11:04.the run, we don't know yet. Of course. Tell me a bit about the
:11:05. > :11:07.atmosphere in Germany and specifically in Munich. We know
:11:08. > :11:12.Angela Merkel's decision to invite 1 million refugees into the country
:11:13. > :11:17.has been politically, one might say, controversial. Others would describe
:11:18. > :11:26.it as a toxic environment. One in which people have been fearing the
:11:27. > :11:29.worst? Well, Munich was... The city in Germany where most of the
:11:30. > :11:35.refugees poured into the country, last year. Most of the pictures that
:11:36. > :11:40.made their way around the world of German helpers welcoming refugees
:11:41. > :11:42.were actually filmed in Munich. There is a reason we call Munich the
:11:43. > :11:49.city of hearts in Germany. It is quite possible that this
:11:50. > :11:56.reputation that the city holds is something that a jihadist cell would
:11:57. > :12:02.like to attack and undermine. It is also quite clear that if this turns
:12:03. > :12:05.out to be a jihadist attack, it will change public and political debate
:12:06. > :12:10.in Germany quite profoundly. But, again, we do not know yet, we will
:12:11. > :12:16.have to wait. I appreciate you are repeatedly stressing that. It can't
:12:17. > :12:18.be reiterated often enough. Let's just contemplate, momentarily, the
:12:19. > :12:24.opposite possibility. The possibility that it is perhaps
:12:25. > :12:28.somebody inspired by the anti-Islamist, anti-refugee feeling.
:12:29. > :12:32.That there has been an upsurge in that sentiment in Germany as well.
:12:33. > :12:36.They're absolutely has been. But it hasn't taken on terrorist forms yet.
:12:37. > :12:40.That would be something completely new as well. We have to be reminded
:12:41. > :12:44.that today is the fifth anniversary of the Anders Breivik attack and
:12:45. > :12:48.jihadists think in dates like this. We did not know if right-wing
:12:49. > :12:53.terrorists do, maybe they will and have started today the is another
:12:54. > :12:56.option. That we are talking about a disturbed individual. Dutchman there
:12:57. > :13:00.is another. The footage that was already alluded to in your report,
:13:01. > :13:04.the footage that was shot most likely at the very beginning of this
:13:05. > :13:09.whole attack was a very confusing dialogue with an onlooker. I think
:13:10. > :13:15.it may point towards an attacker with mental issues. That is a third
:13:16. > :13:19.option. At this point we have no indication of a political background
:13:20. > :13:22.but we just don't have it. The terror level, presumably, has been
:13:23. > :13:29.at the highest possible since that type in Wurzburg? -- that attack.
:13:30. > :13:33.All of Germany has been in high alert. That is properly why the
:13:34. > :13:37.police in Munich was able to react in the way they did, which is
:13:38. > :13:41.commendable. Including that use of social media. Thank you.
:13:42. > :13:44.To America now, where Emily Maitlis has spent much of this week watching
:13:45. > :13:46.the Republican party formally endorse Donald Trump's
:13:47. > :13:53.It has been, it's fair to say, a most unconventional Convention.
:13:54. > :13:55.It was an angry speech here in Cleveland last night,
:13:56. > :13:58.from a man laying out a quasi-apocalyptic vision of the
:13:59. > :14:00.country America had become, the violence, the terrorism, the
:14:01. > :14:05.low-paid jobs and the lack of self-esteem.
:14:06. > :14:08.He called himself the candidate of law and order.
:14:09. > :14:10.He invoked some of Nixon's 1968 campaign against that
:14:11. > :14:18.There were great cheers, every time he mentioned blue lives.
:14:19. > :14:21.He thanked the police to loud applause when, at one point, they
:14:22. > :14:26.bundled out a protest, trying to interrupted him.
:14:27. > :14:28.He had an enthusiasm in his voice for
:14:29. > :14:31.something not a million miles away from a police state.
:14:32. > :14:33.What this was not, though, was a traditional Republican
:14:34. > :14:39.There was no mention of abortion or gun rights.
:14:40. > :14:42.Or of the Constitution or of amendments.
:14:43. > :14:47.He, at one point, even tiptoed on LGBT issues to the
:14:48. > :14:50.surprise, perhaps shock of many in the hall.
:14:51. > :14:53.No, this is a man who knows he's turned his own party upside
:14:54. > :15:03.down and now wants to make a pitch invasion on the Democrat's party.
:15:04. > :15:12.The stage was set for a night Stars Stripes American optimism. But the
:15:13. > :15:23.American nightmare is replaced in American dream. Libya is in ruins,
:15:24. > :15:28.and our ambassador and his staff were left helpless to die at the
:15:29. > :15:37.hands of savage killers. This is the legacy of Hillary Clinton - death,
:15:38. > :15:46.destruction, terrorism and weakness. He told them, shouting at times, the
:15:47. > :15:52.solution was forced, blocking migrants, restoring law and order,
:15:53. > :16:04.and this old favourite, the war. -- the wall.
:16:05. > :16:12.He is a military man when he is talking about building a wall. What
:16:13. > :16:21.is the matter with building a wall? I visited the Vatican and it has a
:16:22. > :16:28.wall around it. Why? This speech sought not to reassure but to anger.
:16:29. > :16:33.He also appealed to Bernie Sanders supporters worried about losing
:16:34. > :16:38.their jobs overseas. I don't want to diminish our freedom and
:16:39. > :16:51.independence. We will never, ever sign bad trade deals. America,
:16:52. > :16:54.first, again. America first! I am sure they will listen to his speech
:16:55. > :17:01.with interest and make a judgment on it. It is hard to reconcile a speech
:17:02. > :17:08.on law and order and immigration with Bernie Sanders supporters. All
:17:09. > :17:12.those Bernie Sanders supporters were not socialists. Many were just
:17:13. > :17:15.people who were angry with what was going on. The most memorable slogans
:17:16. > :17:24.have been the ones aimed at Clinton. Last night, Donald Trump
:17:25. > :17:26.reached above the name-calling to insist
:17:27. > :17:29.to the crowd, let's beat her. I think Americans know the choice
:17:30. > :17:31.is between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
:17:32. > :17:33.and they will go with Donald Trump. They want somebody who can
:17:34. > :17:35.shake up Washington. And Washington, this time,
:17:36. > :17:37.means another Clinton. The baton passes to Philadelphia,
:17:38. > :17:39.next week, when their presidential candidate has to turn her own
:17:40. > :18:01.convention into something I am joined by the former speech
:18:02. > :18:08.writer for George W Bush, and from Los Angeles by Charlotte laws.
:18:09. > :18:13.Peter, I will begin with you, if I may. It is traditionally quite a
:18:14. > :18:17.cheerful occasion, the convention, not necessarily an adjective you
:18:18. > :18:20.would apply to the last few days. That's right. This was the longest
:18:21. > :18:27.and darkest convention speech we have ever seen. The America that
:18:28. > :18:33.Donald Trump was describing was dystopian - dark, dreary, broken and
:18:34. > :18:36.bleeding, almost beyond repair. It was quite extraordinary. It fits his
:18:37. > :18:43.personality, and I think his premises that things are so -- his
:18:44. > :18:46.premise is that things are so bleak that only Donald Trump can fix what
:18:47. > :18:50.is wrong with America. He is incapable of fixing the problems we
:18:51. > :18:54.have, but I think his description of America is so out of touch with
:18:55. > :18:57.America that it won't work. There are problems in the country, but
:18:58. > :19:02.they are discreet and they can be solved. Hillary Clinton and the
:19:03. > :19:07.Democrats will drive a truck through the holes he left in the Cleveland
:19:08. > :19:13.speech. Why was your role was not their? Because Donald Trump is
:19:14. > :19:17.antithetical to a lot of what George W Bush believed in. It is
:19:18. > :19:26.antithetical to a lot of what Ronald Reagan believed in. He is not a
:19:27. > :19:30.conservative, hardly even a Republican, and he is redefining the
:19:31. > :19:34.party in ways that a lot of us think of as dangerous and pernicious. He
:19:35. > :19:39.is a threat to the Republican Party, and I think that was clear from his
:19:40. > :19:46.speech, but it has been clear from what he has been saying and how he
:19:47. > :19:51.has been conducting himself. We have never seen anything like him, and I
:19:52. > :19:57.hope we don't again. Charlotte, you are shaking your head. Do you
:19:58. > :20:03.recognise this description of America as being cowed and close to
:20:04. > :20:07.dystopia? Absolutely. People in this country, many of them, believe that
:20:08. > :20:11.Donald Trump is talking about the situation as it is. People are
:20:12. > :20:15.fearful and realise there is a gap between the rich and poor, they
:20:16. > :20:19.realise corporations are in control and the elite. He is an outsider. We
:20:20. > :20:23.are happy that the Bush family did not speech at the convention,
:20:24. > :20:28.because that would have made it an establishment convention. His speech
:20:29. > :20:35.was a balance between toughness and compassion. I don't agree that it
:20:36. > :20:39.was all dark and dreary. It was inspirational, and if you look at
:20:40. > :20:43.the end section, you will see how it was inspirational and how he got the
:20:44. > :20:48.crowd revved up, so I don't agree with that description. Never is one
:20:49. > :20:56.person who agrees with your analysis. I think he used the word
:20:57. > :21:00.overjoyed to describe it, the leader of the Ku Klux Klan. What does he
:21:01. > :21:07.see an Donald Trump that feels his heart with joy? He released a
:21:08. > :21:12.statement along the lines of, I am happy with Donald Trump for
:21:13. > :21:16.championing my causes. I am not sure that David Duke supports Donald
:21:17. > :21:20.Trump. I believe he supports Hillary Clinton. It is unfair to make that
:21:21. > :21:26.comment. He is running for the Senate, and he said yesterday that
:21:27. > :21:30.he was overjoyed to see Donald Trump championing the causes that he has
:21:31. > :21:36.spent his whole life pursuing. It is unequivocal. I wonder what you think
:21:37. > :21:42.he sees in Donald Trump that appeals to a textbook white supremacist will
:21:43. > :21:47.stop I am part of the animal rights community in Los Angeles, and most
:21:48. > :21:55.of the ones that I know support Donald Trump. I understand that, but
:21:56. > :22:03.I am more interested in what this man sees in Donald Trump. Why is he
:22:04. > :22:07.overjoyed? I have no idea, but I know a lot of people who are
:22:08. > :22:11.overjoyed by Trump who are on the left. You might want to ask the same
:22:12. > :22:16.question about them. I think it is an unfair question, because you are
:22:17. > :22:20.singling out one person who likes Trump when there are lots of people,
:22:21. > :22:24.liberals and Bernie Sanders supporters, who support Trump. It is
:22:25. > :22:32.unfair to try to equate Trump with racism. I wonder why he appeals to
:22:33. > :22:37.such a prominent racist, but if you don't know, that's fine. Peter, when
:22:38. > :22:45.we hear that the Bernie Sanders contingent will be crucial to Mr
:22:46. > :22:48.Trump's chances of moving beyond the base, what buttons will he be trying
:22:49. > :22:55.to push among the non-traditional Republican voters? Trade, the button
:22:56. > :23:02.he pushed all night and the button he has been pushing since he got
:23:03. > :23:07.into the campaign. His bet is that by being a protectionist, and is he
:23:08. > :23:11.-- and he is as fierce a protectionist as we are likely to
:23:12. > :23:22.see, that is what he thinks is his way into those photos. The Sanders
:23:23. > :23:31.voters are really at odds with him. They find Mr Trump repellent. Who
:23:32. > :23:35.will you vote for? I don't know yet. I won't vote for Mr Trump under any
:23:36. > :23:40.conditions, for the reasons I sketched out. I think he is
:23:41. > :23:44.dangerous, erratic, unstable. I think he has a personality disorder,
:23:45. > :23:48.and I think he is unprincipled and would be a threat to the country. I
:23:49. > :23:53.think he is also a threat to the Republican Party. Both are things
:23:54. > :23:57.that I care about, the country and the party. I am not inclined to vote
:23:58. > :24:01.for Mrs Clinton because I am a conservative and she is a liberal.
:24:02. > :24:07.She stands for everything I have stood against in my life. That would
:24:08. > :24:12.be a difficult vote. I may not vote. I will have to see. I will cross
:24:13. > :24:17.that bridge when the 7th of November comes around, the day before the
:24:18. > :24:22.election. I am quite certain I will not vote for Donald Trump. There is
:24:23. > :24:27.a third point of this triangle, albeit a less prominent one. Gary
:24:28. > :24:39.Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. Jeb Bush, your former boss's
:24:40. > :24:44.brother, might support him. I am not a libertarian, I am a Conservative.
:24:45. > :24:49.I have some sympathy for libertarian views, but not a lot. There is a big
:24:50. > :24:53.difference between being a Conservative and a libertarian. My
:24:54. > :24:58.inclination is I will probably vote for someone else on the right. Ben
:24:59. > :25:04.Sass is a senator from Nebraska, very principled and intelligent. He
:25:05. > :25:08.has been a critic of Trump, and very principled about that. We will see.
:25:09. > :25:15.My vote will not make a difference, but you know, people do, as Ted Cruz
:25:16. > :25:20.said, have to vote with their conscience. Charlotte, I think we
:25:21. > :25:25.know how you will cast your vote. Many thanks for your time this
:25:26. > :25:27.evening, and to Peter. Back in Britain.
:25:28. > :25:29.He was one of the big beasts of Brexit but,
:25:30. > :25:31.with victory secured, Iain Duncan Smith has found himself
:25:32. > :25:33.banished to the back benches by Theresa May.
:25:34. > :25:36.A month on from the referendum result, today seemed an opportune
:25:37. > :25:39.moment to find out what the former Work and Pensions Secretary
:25:40. > :25:43.So when I interviewed him earlier today I began by asking
:25:44. > :25:48.whether he was disappointed he was less front and centre
:25:49. > :25:50.than Boris Johnson and Michael Gove when the results of
:25:51. > :25:56.In my view, it's always been on this, 24 years ago, when I voted
:25:57. > :26:00.against Maastricht I actually was not for the UK
:26:01. > :26:04.leaving the European Union, I believed it
:26:05. > :26:09.Over the years, as I've seen more treaties go through, I
:26:10. > :26:13.The main point I would make about this
:26:14. > :26:16.I was involved a lot in the debate and I
:26:17. > :26:20.don't have any personal prejudice in terms of wanting myself to be front
:26:21. > :26:21.and centre on this, never had really.
:26:22. > :26:26.I know you have spoken about the ?350 million pledge that wasn't
:26:27. > :26:29.There are a few other areas where perhaps people might
:26:30. > :26:35.Well, to be fair, you could probably argue
:26:36. > :26:38.both sides of the case there were lots of different types of stories.
:26:39. > :26:41.There was a wonderful story how all families would be ?4,300
:26:42. > :26:46.The point is, on balance, I don't think people actually made
:26:47. > :26:51.their decision on elements like that.
:26:52. > :26:52.I think what they made their
:26:53. > :26:55.decision on was, on the basis, did they feel instinctively
:26:56. > :26:57.that the UK was better off out for them.
:26:58. > :26:59.Are you more comfortable today about the fact
:27:00. > :27:04.that the country is being controlled by a Remainer?
:27:05. > :27:12.We are a Conservative Government, we had four more years to run...
:27:13. > :27:16.You were pretty clear that you wanted a Brexiteer in the big job.
:27:17. > :27:18.I wanted to leave but that slightly went south
:27:19. > :27:21.when Mr Gove and Mr Johnson didn't quite get their act together.
:27:22. > :27:26.I was public in saying that I thought if they were together,
:27:27. > :27:31.My sense about this, though, is that Theresa May,
:27:32. > :27:34.I have known her for a long time, I have worked with her in
:27:35. > :27:38.Cabinet, I know if she gives her word on something, she will keep it.
:27:39. > :27:44.They will get on with it now and we will
:27:45. > :27:48.I sense, and perhaps I'm wrong, you would be
:27:49. > :27:50.rather more keen to be involved in these processes and negotiations.
:27:51. > :27:56.Yes I am, as a member of Parliament, I have a view and I will make that
:27:57. > :28:01.By the way, I don't regret that I'm not in government,
:28:02. > :28:03.I resigned back in March, for different reasons.
:28:04. > :28:05.I was in no hurry to get back in government.
:28:06. > :28:08.I've got a lot I want to get on with.
:28:09. > :28:10.I'm going back to the Centre for Social
:28:11. > :28:12.Justice and I want to get on with other things,
:28:13. > :28:16.David Davis has got your job, hasn't he?
:28:17. > :28:20.I wish him the best of luck. I'm an old friend of David's.
:28:21. > :28:21.Liam Fox? No, no.
:28:22. > :28:24.You have to acknowledge that had your candidate for the
:28:25. > :28:25.leadership, Andrea Leadsom, succeded, you would have
:28:26. > :28:27.expected to be at the top table?
:28:28. > :28:29.Even so, I wasn't really asking for a job.
:28:30. > :28:32.My point was I wanted to get the right people in place.
:28:33. > :28:35.Is Boris Johnson the right person to be Foreign Secretary?
:28:36. > :28:39.Now you have a very different setup, because
:28:40. > :28:43.The European stuff is now in another department
:28:44. > :28:45.and the trade stuff is carved off into a Trade Department,
:28:46. > :28:50.All of that means that Boris has a job to
:28:51. > :28:52.do, to tell the world, this is an important factor,
:28:53. > :28:54.to tell the world that actually, Britain is open for
:28:55. > :28:57.business and Britain is a country that has always managed through
:28:58. > :29:00.difficult times and good times and will continue to do so.
:29:01. > :29:01.Actually, the funny thing about Boris, he is
:29:02. > :29:03.pretty good at doing that kind of stuff.
:29:04. > :29:09.To steer you back to the new Prime Minister and the notion of
:29:10. > :29:12.mandate and the notion of wanting, by your own admission,
:29:13. > :29:14.a Brexit leader and not getting one, does she have a mandate
:29:15. > :29:23.She has stood for an election to lead the Conservative Party and
:29:24. > :29:28.the leader of the Conservative Party de facto has a right to claim
:29:29. > :29:37.The country has asked that Britain leaves the European Union.
:29:38. > :29:39.She has said we will now act on that.
:29:40. > :29:41.It is a very simple statement and a very simple
:29:42. > :29:44.comment from her that she is going to do that.
:29:45. > :29:47.Any sympathy for Messrs Cameron and Osborne?
:29:48. > :29:48.It's a tough job being in government.
:29:49. > :29:50.It's particular tough being Prime Minister.
:29:51. > :29:52.I've worked very closely with the Prime Minister for six years.
:29:53. > :29:54.You weren't so close to the Chancellor, were you?
:29:55. > :30:02.We didn't always see eye to eye, to be fair.
:30:03. > :30:06.At the end, we had a chain of disagreements,
:30:07. > :30:07.which culminated in my resigning from the government.
:30:08. > :30:10.Have you spoken to either of them since resigning?
:30:11. > :30:12.I have, since then. Which one?
:30:13. > :30:17.I wouldn't say they were hugely long conversations,
:30:18. > :30:25.Now, just time to remind you that Newsnight is on Saturday this week,
:30:26. > :30:38.and we're so excited we made a montage about it.
:30:39. > :30:46.It is on BBC Two tomorrow. Coming up next, the award-winning Scottish
:30:47. > :30:50.crime writer Val McDermid looks at the relationship between fiction,
:30:51. > :30:55.video