:00:10. > :00:13.A big, shiny deal for a new nuclear power station, Hinkley C,
:00:14. > :00:18.has just been signed after years of delay.
:00:19. > :00:28.-- not quite yet. EDF has signed but now the Government says it needs to
:00:29. > :00:35.think it over. This delay seems to have come as a surprise to one EDF.
:00:36. > :00:39.I will be asking a local MP whether it will ever be switched on.
:00:40. > :00:41.TRANSLATION: They want to damage our way of life,
:00:42. > :00:43.our openness and, yes, our readiness to take
:00:44. > :00:46.Angela Merkel stands firm on Germany's refugee policy
:00:47. > :00:49.after the spate of terrorist attacks but promises more security measures.
:00:50. > :00:52.There has never been a man or a woman, not me, not Bill,
:00:53. > :00:57.nobody more qualified than Hillary Clinton
:00:58. > :01:05.to serve as President of the United States of America.
:01:06. > :01:07.After the monumental build-up, Hillary Clinton will wow the room.
:01:08. > :01:11.But what does she have to do to wow a very divided country?
:01:12. > :01:15.We'll be joined by two women, who have watched her every step
:01:16. > :01:25.and misstep, Tina Brown and Jill Abrahamson.
:01:26. > :01:39.Finally, after years of delay, this evening, EDF agreed the deal on
:01:40. > :01:44.Hinkley Point C. Now there is a glitch. Theresa May's new government
:01:45. > :01:48.wants some thinking time. The parties have been postponed and
:01:49. > :01:53.media interviews cancelled. What is the alternative? There is no other
:01:54. > :01:58.scheme on the table. This one has been complex and fraught enough.
:01:59. > :02:03.Now, the consortium of EDF and a Chinese company are ready to go.
:02:04. > :02:09.There have been worries over the EDF debt and the deal involves a 35 year
:02:10. > :02:13.contract to pay EDF ?92 50 for each megawatt hour of energy it
:02:14. > :02:28.generates, more than double the present cost. Helen Thomas is with
:02:29. > :02:33.us. There was commitment to nuclear but the Government wants to consider
:02:34. > :02:36.carefully all the component parts of this project. The decision is now
:02:37. > :02:42.pushed back to the early autumn. The official line is this is not a
:02:43. > :02:45.delay, a rethink. This is a new Prime Minister, the new Secretary of
:02:46. > :02:50.State wanting to make sure they are on top of all the details. This was
:02:51. > :02:54.not expected. What we are being told is this is Theresa May, the new
:02:55. > :03:03.Prime Minister, stamping her authority on these really big,
:03:04. > :03:05.confiscated decisions. It is worth saying there is some suggestion she
:03:06. > :03:08.discussed this with President Francois Hollande in Paris but it
:03:09. > :03:12.did seem to come as a surprise to EDF this evening. They had a full
:03:13. > :03:21.day of media interviews and so on plant. That is all off. -- planned.
:03:22. > :03:29.The board of French utility EDF has approved building and ?18 billion
:03:30. > :03:32.new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point in Somerset.
:03:33. > :03:35.French unease over the project continues with one board
:03:36. > :03:37.member resigned today ahead of the vote.
:03:38. > :03:41.The Government late tonight seemed to put the brakes on the project.
:03:42. > :03:43.It will make a decision in the autumn.
:03:44. > :03:46.Hinkley could be the first nuclear power station built in the UK
:03:47. > :03:54.Would it supercharge the UK's energy outlook,
:03:55. > :03:56.or are the lights of the country's energy policy flickering?
:03:57. > :04:03.The UK needs new generating capacity to replace ageing coal and nuclear
:04:04. > :04:07.Then there is increased electricity demand.
:04:08. > :04:12.The plan is this comes from a mix of energy sources,
:04:13. > :04:15.including renewables and new nuclear power plants.
:04:16. > :04:20.And the requirement is about 95 gigawatts of new capacity.
:04:21. > :04:25.Remember, the UK Government wants three things from its energy policy.
:04:26. > :04:27.It wants security of supply from a range
:04:28. > :04:34.It wants low or zero carbon options to help meet climate change goals.
:04:35. > :04:40.After all, it is consumers that ultimately end up bearing the cost
:04:41. > :04:47.In theory, Hinkley does help meet some of those goals.
:04:48. > :04:51.It is big, capable of supplying about 7% of the UK's electricity,
:04:52. > :04:58.It is also low carbon and nuclear power is always on the 24 hours
:04:59. > :05:04.It should even create thousands of jobs over the ten years
:05:05. > :05:11.But the first Hinkley headache is the cost.
:05:12. > :05:14.Sure, EDF pays for its construction and takes the risk that it runs late
:05:15. > :05:38.But, their incentive is a guaranteed price of ?92.50 per megawatt hour
:05:39. > :05:41.for the electricity produced over the 35 year life of the plant.
:05:42. > :05:43.That is way above current wholesale electricity prices,
:05:44. > :05:46.dragged down by low fossil fuel prices, making up the difference
:05:47. > :05:48.was estimated to cost about 6.1 billion when the contract
:05:49. > :05:50.was signed back in October 2013, according to the
:05:51. > :05:54.Earlier this year, it put the cost of those top
:05:55. > :05:58.Well, it will be the most expensive power station that has ever been
:05:59. > :06:06.The power that future consumers will pay for will be a very high price.
:06:07. > :06:08.What we do know, if Hinkley was operating today,
:06:09. > :06:11.it would be producing power, round about two and a half times
:06:12. > :06:13.the wholesale price, which means the consumers will be
:06:14. > :06:15.paying in a subsidy of about ?1.5 billion a year.
:06:16. > :06:18.That does seem a very high price, even taking into account
:06:19. > :06:20.the benefits you get full security of supply
:06:21. > :06:33.The second worry is more fundamental. Will it work? The type
:06:34. > :06:37.of reactor EDF plans for Hinkley is proving the industry conjugated to
:06:38. > :06:43.build. The ones in France and Finland are running leers -- years
:06:44. > :06:48.late and billions over budget. Maybe EDF has learned valuable lessons.
:06:49. > :06:52.The Government boss Max out it for building several more nuclear plants
:06:53. > :07:04.after Hinkley means the UK would reap all the benefits. -- the
:07:05. > :07:07.Government's wanting to build several more nuclear plants. There
:07:08. > :07:11.is a bizarre strategy of allowing several different reactor types to
:07:12. > :07:15.be built at the same time we could find ourselves in a few years' time
:07:16. > :07:19.with four different reactor types being built by five different
:07:20. > :07:24.manufacturers. Even if Hinkley is finishing ten years' time, will it
:07:25. > :07:27.be the type of power, the type of technology we actually need? The
:07:28. > :07:33.supposed advantage of Hinkley as it provides a of power all the time.
:07:34. > :07:38.Actually that is not what the UK wants anymore. It needs flexible
:07:39. > :07:42.generating capacity that goes up and down to complement varying amounts
:07:43. > :07:47.of wind, solar and hydro coming onto the electricity. Hinkley is
:07:48. > :07:52.incredibly unresponsive. You cannot adjust its output. Renewable energy
:07:53. > :07:57.currently cannot easily combined renewable energy and Hinkley Point.
:07:58. > :08:02.Better energy storage could help smooth out the unpredictable peaks
:08:03. > :08:07.and troughs of power supply. In an interconnected world, there is more
:08:08. > :08:16.ability to adjust this down when it is tight. Hinkley was meant to like
:08:17. > :08:19.the way to a new, modern energy system. The risk is the UK ends up
:08:20. > :08:22.with an expensive and outdated piece of kit.
:08:23. > :08:29.I'm joined now from Hinkley by its constituency MP,
:08:30. > :08:30.Ian Liddell-Grainger, who has been involved in these
:08:31. > :08:32.negotiations for the last nine-and-a-half years.
:08:33. > :08:35.And also from our Bristol studio by the Green Party's south west
:08:36. > :08:37.MEP, Molly Scott-Cato, a patron of the Stop
:08:38. > :08:42.good evening to both of you. When did you find out there was going to
:08:43. > :08:46.be a delay? I was actually here on site at Hinkley C and we were
:08:47. > :08:51.discussing about the various parts to the deal with the team here. We
:08:52. > :08:56.got a note saying the Prime Minister wanted to have a look at this and go
:08:57. > :09:02.through it in her own way. That must have been a bit of a shock for you.
:09:03. > :09:06.I probably should have guessed. Theresa May has her own mindful that
:09:07. > :09:12.she has been a very successful Home Secretary. She checks everything. --
:09:13. > :09:17.her own mind that she wants to make sure this is right. It is three
:09:18. > :09:23.countries. An enormous deal for the United Kingdom, France and China.
:09:24. > :09:26.She is checking it, like the Prime Minister should. Very much sticking
:09:27. > :09:32.to the party line that she has been a Home Secretary for a long time in
:09:33. > :09:41.the Government, so she knew it was coming. -- the party line. This is a
:09:42. > :09:47.90,000 page deal. I had done four prime ministers and secretaries of
:09:48. > :09:50.state. Amber Road is now the Home Secretary. Obviously, Andrea Leadsom
:09:51. > :09:54.is also one of her secretaries of State. She has seen it going across.
:09:55. > :10:00.Until you get into the complexities of the deal at this, you do not see
:10:01. > :10:05.the whole picture. That is what this lady is doing. This presumably was a
:10:06. > :10:09.surprise to you as well. For me, it was a pleasant surprise. It shows we
:10:10. > :10:19.have had weak governments over the past six years and this deal has not
:10:20. > :10:21.been scrutinised properly. It seems the Prime Minister is getting cold
:10:22. > :10:24.feet and I hope she scrutinises the deal carefully. I hope if she does
:10:25. > :10:27.that she will see the price is ridiculously high and not the type
:10:28. > :10:32.of deal we need for the 21st-century. For all those reasons,
:10:33. > :10:36.I think she will be changing her mind about this in the autumn. If
:10:37. > :10:41.she does change her mind about it, chances are she will not necessarily
:10:42. > :10:45.go for renewables or she may go for another kind of nuclear deal.
:10:46. > :10:53.Renewables by far the most advanced technology we can bring on that
:10:54. > :10:56.onstream quickly. They were not bring the amount of consistent
:10:57. > :11:00.energy needed to make up the 7% desperate they needed in the next
:11:01. > :11:06.ten years. Neither will Hinkley. We will not get any electricity from
:11:07. > :11:10.Hinkley. Even if the reactor works by 2027. The only technologies we
:11:11. > :11:13.have that work are renewables. We need to seriously invest in those
:11:14. > :11:18.bring them on stream. That will create far more jobs, about 120,000
:11:19. > :11:25.jobs according to a report I commissioned, compared with 500 at
:11:26. > :11:28.Hinkley thought that it is better for the economy and better for jobs.
:11:29. > :11:33.It is safer and cleaner as a way of producing electricity. Is the
:11:34. > :11:37.Government in on this or is there any room for manoeuvre question what
:11:38. > :11:42.you have said that Theresa May wants to look over it. What if she wants
:11:43. > :11:46.to renegotiate the price at once and other nuclear deal, wants to bring
:11:47. > :11:53.another country in? I do not think that is what she's doing. I have
:11:54. > :11:58.just spoken to Greg Clark. She is the person she is. Greg Clark has
:11:59. > :12:02.briefed her. I am getting in touch with her PPS tomorrow to ask for a
:12:03. > :12:06.meeting so I can go through everything. That is not what she is
:12:07. > :12:11.doing and it is blatantly obvious. She is wanting to make sure it is
:12:12. > :12:15.right. If she is going to do this thoroughly, and make sure it is
:12:16. > :12:20.right, you cannot be 100% sure it will go ahead as is because you are
:12:21. > :12:25.not suggesting for one minute she might make changes. I wonder what
:12:26. > :12:32.Greg Clark actually said to you. He said the Prime Minister will look at
:12:33. > :12:35.it and is aware of the situation. She discussed it with President
:12:36. > :12:38.Francois Hollande a few days ago but she is one of the people who look at
:12:39. > :12:43.everything that is across her desk. That is the way it should be. You
:12:44. > :12:47.can say it is the party line but I would say it is a common-sense
:12:48. > :12:52.approach. I applaud the Prime Minister. That is strong government
:12:53. > :12:56.and not weak government. Just coming back to you on that, there are some
:12:57. > :13:05.issues about UDF. In there are issues about this particular type of
:13:06. > :13:10.nuclear technology. -- about EDF. Other plants are way behind and over
:13:11. > :13:15.budget. Let's just say that renewables are not the possibility
:13:16. > :13:19.you wish them to be. Is there another way forward, if it is going
:13:20. > :13:23.to be low carbon energy? I cannot really say that. I know that
:13:24. > :13:28.renewables can do the job. You are right to draw attention to the fact
:13:29. > :13:33.there are problems with EDF. Now the politics is starting to unravel,
:13:34. > :13:38.they are using the scheme as a way to recapitalise business. That may
:13:39. > :13:41.break European competition rules. The whole deal may itself turn out
:13:42. > :13:46.to be illegal. Also what we are seeing as we have not had a proper
:13:47. > :13:51.energy policy, a strategic energy policy in this country for several
:13:52. > :13:55.decades. Our planners are being left behind when they are reducing
:13:56. > :14:00.demand. That is if we just try to match supply of energy with demand
:14:01. > :14:04.for energy and also use energy storage a lot better. You heard in
:14:05. > :14:12.the film but the problem with the Hinkley Point C project is that it
:14:13. > :14:16.cannot actually turn on and off electricity. You heard the
:14:17. > :14:20.representative from Switch saying it does not do the job that is needed
:14:21. > :14:23.in ten years' time where there will be different flows of electricity.
:14:24. > :14:24.There needs to be a more sophisticated form of nuclear
:14:25. > :14:32.energy. I'm sorry, I didn't see the film
:14:33. > :14:36.because I'm here live at Hinckley. I think you're suggesting we need to
:14:37. > :14:40.change to a modular system. I don't think it's the case at all. What
:14:41. > :14:45.we're talking about is raw energy, it'll produce enough energy for 7%
:14:46. > :14:50.of homes in Britain. It's a big, powerful beast, that's what building
:14:51. > :14:52.here and I think we should. I've got confidence, I've spent nine and I
:14:53. > :14:56.think we should. I've got confidence, I've spent nine and a
:14:57. > :14:59.half over half my time as an MP. I've got faith in it and I think we
:15:00. > :15:01.should get on with it. Thank you both very much indeed for joining
:15:02. > :15:03.us. The German Chancellor,
:15:04. > :15:04.Angela Merkel, today insisted that there would be
:15:05. > :15:07.no change in the country's willingness to take in refugees
:15:08. > :15:09.after the recent terror attacks. She interrupted her summer holiday
:15:10. > :15:12.to return to Berlin and announced new measures to improve security,
:15:13. > :15:14.including deciphering web chatter But, despite the fact that the two
:15:15. > :15:19.attacks in Bavaria were carried out by asylum seekers, who both
:15:20. > :15:21.had claimed allegiance to IS, she was adamant that Germany
:15:22. > :15:24.would stick to its principles Munich train station
:15:25. > :15:38.was the birthplace of Europe threw up fences,
:15:39. > :15:45.Germans welcomed refugees Now, this country is taking a hard
:15:46. > :15:55.look at its open border policy after four attacks in the space
:15:56. > :15:58.of a week, three of them carried out In the little Bavarian town
:15:59. > :16:02.of Ansbach on Sunday, It wasn't the deadliest
:16:03. > :16:15.of the attacks, but it was the one with the most chilling implications
:16:16. > :16:18.for a country struggling not to give in to fear.
:16:19. > :16:20.The bomber was trying to get through this archway here,
:16:21. > :16:22.because on the other side There were two and a half
:16:23. > :16:26.thousand people here. Witnesses say they saw him pacing up
:16:27. > :16:30.and down here, In the end, he came over to this
:16:31. > :16:34.terrace here, that's The attacker was the man on the left
:16:35. > :16:40.in the red shirt. A Syrian who arrived in Germany two
:16:41. > :16:44.years ago via Bulgaria. In 2013, he was interviewed
:16:45. > :16:46.on Bulgarian TV talking He was due to be deported
:16:47. > :16:56.from Germany back to Bulgaria. Before he blew himself up he pledged
:16:57. > :16:59.allegiance to Islamic State. Neighbours said he was friendly
:17:00. > :17:03.but quite isolated. Annette and Gabriela live
:17:04. > :17:08.on the same street. They got to know Dalil quite well
:17:09. > :17:11.through their voluntary In October he had an injured arm,
:17:12. > :17:16.and he had an operation. And then I haven't seen him for many
:17:17. > :17:28.weeks, and I asked, where is he? And he said, he's in his room,
:17:29. > :17:31.he has a laptop now, and he doesn't come out
:17:32. > :17:36.of his room that much any more. Did you get the impression
:17:37. > :17:38.he was particularly religious? You say that very firmly,
:17:39. > :17:43.why are you so sure? Because I know he didn't do Ramadan,
:17:44. > :17:46.we talked about that... He was not a soldier
:17:47. > :17:50.for IS, not at all. Nee, das ist eine
:17:51. > :17:51.Ausrede. A year ago, an army of Annettes
:17:52. > :17:58.and Gabrielas came together in an extraordinary
:17:59. > :18:01.display of hospitality. But for these two, that
:18:02. > :18:07.solidarity has been shattered. Personally, I just told my friend,
:18:08. > :18:11.everybody needs to go back home. I'm not willing to go
:18:12. > :18:17.out of my way and help, because I'm afraid that your
:18:18. > :18:20.friendly, and then actually you turn Did that change for you on Sunday
:18:21. > :18:29.was demand on Sunday. Just around the corner we met a man
:18:30. > :18:35.who summed up how many people feel. Because there was this
:18:36. > :18:38.Willkommenskultur, this welcoming. All of last week's attacks took
:18:39. > :18:43.place in southern Germany. A mass shooting
:18:44. > :18:50.in a shopping centre. A machete attack near a restaurant,
:18:51. > :18:53.as well as Sunday's suicide bombing. More than a million refugees have
:18:54. > :18:56.come to Germany since the beginning The majority of them
:18:57. > :19:02.through Bavaria. Now, there is talk of
:19:03. > :19:04.closing the Borders, Has it changed since
:19:05. > :19:13.the attacks of the last week? We don't yet know the extent
:19:14. > :19:19.of the impact of all of this on German public opinion,
:19:20. > :19:21.but certainly the kind of language we're hearing today is very
:19:22. > :19:23.different from what people were saying a year ago, last summer,
:19:24. > :19:31.at the height of Willkommenskultur. Even before these attacks,
:19:32. > :19:33.support for Angela Merkel's refugee policy was dwindling,
:19:34. > :19:35.and now she is under intense political pressure
:19:36. > :19:42.from her own coalition partners. The CSU, the centre-right party that
:19:43. > :19:44.dominates politics in Bavaria, today said refugees who couldn't
:19:45. > :19:46.prove their identity should be Angela Merkel said she would order
:19:47. > :19:52.extra security measures, but on her refugee policy
:19:53. > :19:56.she is holding firm. TRANSLATION: For me it's clear
:19:57. > :19:59.we will stick to our principles. Our principle, which is article one
:20:00. > :20:01.of the German constitution, that the dignity of human
:20:02. > :20:16.beings is inviolable. And the principles mean we give
:20:17. > :20:19.those who are politically persecuted asylum, and we give protection
:20:20. > :20:21.to those fleeing war In accordance with the Geneva
:20:22. > :20:25.Convention. In Ansbach, investigators are trying
:20:26. > :20:28.to work out whether Mohammed Dalil was a member of Islamic State
:20:29. > :20:30.from the beginning, or whether his pledge of allegiance
:20:31. > :20:32.was a more recent development. The German authorities say Dalil
:20:33. > :20:36.was suffering from mental illness. That he had tried and tried
:20:37. > :20:39.to commit suicide, and that his psychological treatment
:20:40. > :20:44.had been terminated. Juergen Sauer, a psychotherapist
:20:45. > :20:47.who works with asylum seekers, says many are traumatised,
:20:48. > :20:49.and that bureaucratic hurdles often mean they can't
:20:50. > :20:51.get the help they need. We know all these people
:20:52. > :20:54.who went to the hospital because they wanted to commit
:20:55. > :20:56.suicide, they get for 1-2 weeks the support, and then they are sent
:20:57. > :20:59.again into life without support. It might be really a relationship
:21:00. > :21:02.between this lack of treatment In other words, there may
:21:03. > :21:15.be others out there. Many are now asking
:21:16. > :21:18.an uncomfortable question. Has the open border policy
:21:19. > :21:20.made Germans vulnerable? In Ansbach, the local priest
:21:21. > :21:23.was having dinner with his family when he heard the bomb go off just
:21:24. > :21:27.outside his church. TRANSLATION: What happened
:21:28. > :21:29.here in the past week, of course, it's doing
:21:30. > :21:35.something to us. But if we split, if we turn
:21:36. > :21:38.against each other, if we reject people who are in need,
:21:39. > :21:40.then something really And yet the week's deadliest attack
:21:41. > :21:58.had nothing to do with refugees. Munich's Muslim community held
:21:59. > :22:00.prayers at the site of Friday's attack, when a German-
:22:01. > :22:02.Iranian teenager with a history of depression opened fire
:22:03. > :22:04.in a shopping centre. He killed ten people,
:22:05. > :22:07.including himself. He shouted antiforeigner slogans,
:22:08. > :22:09.and followed the Norwegian Had he been white, this
:22:10. > :22:14.would have been interpreted as a far right attack,
:22:15. > :22:17.but his heritage means the public gaze is directed back
:22:18. > :22:22.to the issue of immigration. As the spectre of terrorism
:22:23. > :22:27.casts its shadow deeper into Europe, these are fearful and confusing
:22:28. > :22:35.times for Germany. Joining me now from Cologne
:22:36. > :22:38.is German MP Norbert Spinrath, European Affairs spokesman
:22:39. > :22:40.for the SPD Party, who are in coalition
:22:41. > :22:58.with Angela Merkel's CDU/CSU. Good evening, Mr Spinrath. Good
:22:59. > :23:01.evening from Cologne. A survey said the majority of the SPD believe
:23:02. > :23:08.Angela Merkel's refugee policy had failed. I do not think that it
:23:09. > :23:16.failed. The social Democratic party as a coalition partner of Chancellor
:23:17. > :23:28.Merkel stays to her policy for refugees. I think there is no link
:23:29. > :23:36.from the refugees to the attacks of the last days. We saw a mass murder,
:23:37. > :23:44.mass shooting, without any link to terrorist attacks. We saw a refugee
:23:45. > :23:51.who arrived two years ago in Germany. He was ill, he had
:23:52. > :24:00.depressions, he was a mystic, I think that was not a normal
:24:01. > :24:09.terrorist attack. -- he was brain sick. If two refugees are involved
:24:10. > :24:16.in such attacks, when you have 2 million refugees in the last 18
:24:17. > :24:21.months, it is not to be called a link between those. But we heard
:24:22. > :24:27.from people in the film who were very welcoming originally feeling
:24:28. > :24:31.they were going to pull back. One MP in Angela Merkel's own party has
:24:32. > :24:35.said it's all very well to have the welcome culture, but we need the
:24:36. > :24:39.farewell culture where failed asylum seekers are moved out of the country
:24:40. > :24:53.more quickly, do you agree with that? I think we have two I -- have
:24:54. > :25:01.to observe. We have to see that 99% of very normal people... They need
:25:02. > :25:07.protection. They came to us to look for protection. They are happy they
:25:08. > :25:16.can be here, far away from their homeland, where there is war, or
:25:17. > :25:23.other things. I think we have to look very strong on those they are
:25:24. > :25:31.failing in their role. And we have to take measures. We have a large
:25:32. > :25:37.catalogue what we want to do in future. I wonder if you think what
:25:38. > :25:42.has happened in Germany is quite different to what is happening in
:25:43. > :25:46.France. Manuel Valls, the French Prime Minister, has said people will
:25:47. > :25:48.have to learn to live with the terrorist threat, is it the same for
:25:49. > :25:58.Germany? Yellow no, we don't want to live with the
:25:59. > :26:06.terrorist threat, we want to make sure our people, our inhabitants,
:26:07. > :26:12.that they are secure in Germany, and that the police Administration, the
:26:13. > :26:18.police forces, and other administrations, we'll do anything
:26:19. > :26:25.to give them security. I'm sorry to interrupt. I just wonder if you
:26:26. > :26:31.think there is any validity in the calls some people are making in
:26:32. > :26:36.Germany for a pause. Just to calm things down, rethink, sort out
:26:37. > :26:42.security better, then restart allowing refugees. What do you think
:26:43. > :26:53.about that possibility? I think most of the people... And I spoke to a
:26:54. > :26:57.lot of them. Most of the people say there is a link. We have to deal
:26:58. > :27:04.with it, operate a lot of measures. Do anything for my security, that
:27:05. > :27:11.says the people. The people are not in that fear that a few politicians
:27:12. > :27:14.want to mention. Mr Spinrath, thank you very much indeed.
:27:15. > :27:16.In just over four hours, Chelsea Clinton will introduce her
:27:17. > :27:18.mother at the Democrat National Convention in Philadelphia.
:27:19. > :27:21.And all the speeches from Meryl Streep's opening scream,
:27:22. > :27:26.to Michelle Obama's brilliantly crafted words, from Bill Clinton's
:27:27. > :27:28.folksy homage, to Barack Obama's ringing endorsement have been
:27:29. > :27:31.leading to this moment when Hillary Clinton takes the stage.
:27:32. > :27:33.The problem is, is the whipsmart, dedicated, loyal, honest woman
:27:34. > :27:37.they portray the one that the voters see.
:27:38. > :27:39.The faithful are in the hall, but the sceptical threaten
:27:40. > :27:50.I'm asking you to join me and reject cynicism and reject fear.
:27:51. > :27:56.The situation is worse than it has ever been before!
:27:57. > :27:58.Don't let anyone ever tell you this country
:27:59. > :28:10.The other campaign looks based on fear. Of immigrants, terrorism and
:28:11. > :28:12.economic decline. The 2016 presidential election feels
:28:13. > :28:16.like a choice. For what was traditionally a nation
:28:17. > :28:19.of optimists. Between two diametrically
:28:20. > :28:20.opposed narratives Hope and fear are not
:28:21. > :28:24.new things in American Back in 1968, Richard Nixon's
:28:25. > :28:31.campaigns were set against a The Vietnam War, and
:28:32. > :28:34.the assassinations of Martin Luther King
:28:35. > :28:36.and Robert Kennedy, and widespread rioting
:28:37. > :28:37.in Nixon was the fear
:28:38. > :28:51.candidate and his strategy As we look at America, we see cities
:28:52. > :28:55.enveloped in smoke and flames. We hear Simon is the night. We see
:28:56. > :28:57.Americans dying on distant battlefields abroad.
:28:58. > :29:02.Our convention occurs at the moment of crisis for
:29:03. > :29:08.The attacks on our police and the terrorism of our
:29:09. > :29:13.cities threaten our very way of life.
:29:14. > :29:15.Donald Trump and his team have
:29:16. > :29:17.been clear they see 1968 and present-day
:29:18. > :29:27.They look to Nixon's campaign for inspiration.
:29:28. > :29:29.If you look at 1968, the Democratic president was
:29:30. > :29:33.I think Lyndon Johnson was in the 30s, maybe the 20s.
:29:34. > :29:41.It is maybe slightly ticking up after having
:29:42. > :29:44.American troop casualties were very high in 1968.
:29:45. > :29:46.There is really nothing comparable to that now.
:29:47. > :29:51.Don't get cynical because, look at yourselves...
:29:52. > :29:54.The Nixon and Trump campaigns are a far cry from Ronald
:29:55. > :29:58.Reagan's vision of America in the 1980s.
:29:59. > :30:02.Wanted to be a shining city on a hill.
:30:03. > :30:04.One obvious way of measuring hope or fear is consumer
:30:05. > :30:07.One rule has held fast since the 1980s.
:30:08. > :30:08.When consumer confidence is above 100
:30:09. > :30:10.points, the incumbent party wins the popular vote.
:30:11. > :30:27.2012, that rule was broken. President Obama won despite economic
:30:28. > :30:30.gloom. Today, consumer confidence is at 97. The Democrats and Republicans
:30:31. > :30:36.disagreeing on everything, it is possible that can -- consumer
:30:37. > :30:39.confidence may be affected by Republicans thinking the cupboard is
:30:40. > :30:45.bare simply because there is a democratic president. Republicans
:30:46. > :30:49.thinking it is good because there is a Democratic president. It may not
:30:50. > :30:53.mean what it used to put it is difficult to surf this stuff out. I
:30:54. > :30:58.still believe in a place called Hope. It is worth remembering that
:30:59. > :31:02.while Bill Clinton and Barrett Obama whether recent optimism candidates,
:31:03. > :31:07.despite the rhetoric for many Americans right now, it is this man
:31:08. > :31:09.who is offering hope, a chance to change their fortunes. That may be
:31:10. > :31:12.difficult to resist. Joining me now are Jill Abramson
:31:13. > :31:29.from the Guardian US and Tina Brown Good evening to both of you. First
:31:30. > :31:33.of all, Tina Brown, hearing what Katie was saying. The problem is
:31:34. > :31:37.Barack Obama talks about America being great. A lot of Americans do
:31:38. > :31:46.not think America is a great for them and they do not feel to this --
:31:47. > :31:51.optimistic. She has -- they have to counter the idea that Donald Trump
:31:52. > :31:57.is the candidate of hope. There is as much psychic gloom, emotional
:31:58. > :32:01.gloom, as there is economic gloom in large swathes of America who feel
:32:02. > :32:06.left behind and left out of the big dream and left on the shelf, not
:32:07. > :32:10.considered, talked down to by the elite. Those are the people who
:32:11. > :32:14.Donald Trump is speaking to. What we have seen is the majority of
:32:15. > :32:23.Americans have said America is not on the right track. More than half
:32:24. > :32:26.of the Americans have said they want the candidate of change. Most of
:32:27. > :32:28.them feel Hillary Clinton is not the candidate for change. They also feel
:32:29. > :32:33.that Donald Trump is my changes may be for the worse. That leaves us in
:32:34. > :32:41.a fascinating situation. Everyone wants change and Trump is the change
:32:42. > :32:44.candidate. Everyone was trying to stress that Hillary Clinton was a
:32:45. > :32:51.candidate for change. That was the theme of Bill Clinton's song. Like
:32:52. > :32:55.Tina Brown, you know Hillary Clinton, at least partly from
:32:56. > :32:59.close-up and partly from a distance. The problem is she does lead into
:33:00. > :33:06.the idea that she is part of the elite and actually she has some very
:33:07. > :33:11.tricky stuff which may well then resurfaced in the next four months.
:33:12. > :33:17.How does she counter that? Well, you have heard some of the rhetoric
:33:18. > :33:22.already during this week in the convention, where many speakers have
:33:23. > :33:29.labelled her the change maker. She is trying to portray herself as an
:33:30. > :33:33.agent of change, which you are right, is quite tricky, considering
:33:34. > :33:41.she has been a Washington figure for generations. -- a generation. Going
:33:42. > :33:50.back to when she was first lady in 1993. Just to come in on that, the
:33:51. > :33:55.recent CNN poll, when it talks about trustworthiness and honesty, 68% say
:33:56. > :34:00.Hillary Clinton is not honest and trustworthy versus 43% on Trump.
:34:01. > :34:07.That is devastating at this stage of the game. It is devastating but I
:34:08. > :34:11.have written that, based on supervising investigative stories
:34:12. > :34:17.about her at the New York Times, as an investigative reporter myself,
:34:18. > :34:22.looking into many of the Clinton controversies, I think she is
:34:23. > :34:30.basically honest and trustworthy. Many of the charges against her at
:34:31. > :34:34.the Republican convention, people chancing lock her up. It is
:34:35. > :34:39.extremely exaggerated. Even though most recent e-mails, when you
:34:40. > :34:48.actually examined the case against her, it came down to three e-mails
:34:49. > :34:53.that did not have clarified headers. She is hurt by that. She is hurt by
:34:54. > :34:59.that but she blames the media. She is very distrustful of the media and
:35:00. > :35:03.hostile to them. Very defensive about the media. With good reason.
:35:04. > :35:12.Hillary Clinton has been demonised for decades and decades and decades
:35:13. > :35:15.by the GOP, the Republican attack machine, and these nonevent pseudo-
:35:16. > :35:22.scandals in a sense which have bedevilled her. A leading Republican
:35:23. > :35:27.person is said to me last night, Hillary Clinton has baggage but
:35:28. > :35:33.Trump is crazy and you cannot fix crazy. Interesting that Michael
:35:34. > :35:36.Bloomberg last night, himself a billionaire, the businessman
:35:37. > :35:42.candidate, he really made the point that Trump is a reckless candidate.
:35:43. > :35:46.As we go towards an election, it is about whether the petty and
:35:47. > :35:51.trustworthiness of Hillary Clinton will be as dangerous in her mind as
:35:52. > :35:55.a reckless, radical, off the wall candidate. You have to accept you
:35:56. > :36:01.think that and a lot of people in the big cities think that. In great
:36:02. > :36:07.swathes of America, they think that Trump is the best candidate. On
:36:08. > :36:12.radio, you are talking about what she had to do in the campaign a new
:36:13. > :36:17.city had to show her true self, to be stern and release her inner
:36:18. > :36:23.pitch, as you called it. Is this really the night for that? I think
:36:24. > :36:28.you have already seen a little bit of that in men talking about her.
:36:29. > :36:33.They stressed the fighter in Hillary Clinton. It was almost as if Hillary
:36:34. > :36:37.Clinton is supposed to be be solid, national-security candidate last
:36:38. > :36:40.time, this time she is being positioned as the cuddly
:36:41. > :36:44.grandmother. The truth of Hillary Clinton is she is a feisty, BS
:36:45. > :36:48.women, who fights the change. I think it will be a lot more
:36:49. > :36:54.appealing, particularly to the young, the Lenny women, who want to
:36:55. > :37:01.see their women are fierce. -- millennial. It is more authentic
:37:02. > :37:05.than anything we have heard before. What we have heard in a well crafted
:37:06. > :37:13.speech written for Michelle Obama and Obama and Clinton were both
:37:14. > :37:18.orators. She is not an oratory, so I wonder how she is going to deal with
:37:19. > :37:29.this. She has said she is not a natural politician like her husband.
:37:30. > :37:34.In terms of her feistiness and, to use her phrase, we saw that in the
:37:35. > :37:38.primaries with the great speech in San Diego. You could see how she
:37:39. > :37:47.relished attacking Donald Trump on important points. She is nearly
:37:48. > :37:52.ready to go out there and really get in his face. She herself is kind of
:37:53. > :37:58.delights in the fact she's so she clearly gets under his skin. Tina
:37:59. > :38:02.Brown, in a way, what we are talking about is the night this convention
:38:03. > :38:06.finishes, the big fight starts between the pair of them. Things are
:38:07. > :38:10.going to get very dirty. In the swing states you are very have to
:38:11. > :38:19.that is she will have to play a very careful game. Hillary loves a fight.
:38:20. > :38:24.At her best is when her back is against the wall. During the last
:38:25. > :38:28.primary campaign, and now, she is in the thick of it. She will be buoyed
:38:29. > :38:33.up by all of these testimonies after being so battered. It must be very
:38:34. > :38:37.exciting for her to hear these wonderful testimonies from so many,
:38:38. > :38:44.incredibly strong figures in the Democratic party. She will put on
:38:45. > :38:45.her fighting boots. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank
:38:46. > :38:55.you. The front pages tomorrow, chaos over
:38:56. > :39:01.nuclear plant. Ministers done energy industry with new Hinkley review. On
:39:02. > :39:05.the left-hand side, rail fares to -- rail firms to cut fares on
:39:06. > :39:11.investigation. Last orders for airport drinking. An intention to
:39:12. > :39:19.make passengers pay for unruly behaviour. In the Guardian, Hinkley
:39:20. > :39:25.Point nuclear plant gets the go-ahead. On the right-hand side, it
:39:26. > :39:28.has a hug from last night at the convention as Hillary Clinton made a
:39:29. > :39:32.surprise appearance before tonight's B.
:39:33. > :39:34.Today Sky announced that they were launching a big push
:39:35. > :39:37.We feel like we've seen this new fangled nonsense before.
:39:38. > :39:41.I think this was the happiest day of my life.
:39:42. > :40:31.Thursday was another warm day in the south. Fresh condition is now
:40:32. > :40:33.pushing in from the north. This weather