:00:11. > :00:15.Thank you very much indeed, Liverpool.
:00:16. > :00:18.He can still attract a big crowd - Jeremy Corbyn rallies his troops
:00:19. > :00:27.But in Westminster, the chatter has been very different.
:00:28. > :00:30.They're not talking about it in public, but behind the scenes
:00:31. > :00:33.Labour's warring factions have been trying to answer a vital question -
:00:34. > :00:36.can the MPs unilaterally dump Corbyn and have their own leader
:00:37. > :00:43.Rebel Labour MPs have been thinking about their options
:00:44. > :00:46.should Jeremy Corbyn win the Labour leadership again in September.
:00:47. > :00:49.Newsnight has learnt that MPs on both sides have been in touch
:00:50. > :00:50.with parliamentary officials to discuss the mechanics
:00:51. > :00:52.of a declaration of independence at Westminster from
:00:53. > :01:02.The veteran MP Greville Janner may have died last year,
:01:03. > :01:04.but allegations of child sexual exploitation have not gone away.
:01:05. > :01:08.His family are determined to defend him.
:01:09. > :01:11.Dad is dead, and so there's not the possibility of the other side
:01:12. > :01:22.It's the people making the accusations' word,
:01:23. > :01:35.We're in the food queues in Venezuela, where something
:01:36. > :01:54.It's hard not to view the goings on in the Labour Party this summer
:01:55. > :01:57.without thinking that this is more than a fleeting domestic row.
:01:58. > :02:00.Can it carry on into next summer too?
:02:01. > :02:04.Well, it's been said that the two wings of the party are like a couple
:02:05. > :02:06.who want a divorce, but can't bring themselves to separate,
:02:07. > :02:08.because neither can afford to move out.
:02:09. > :02:12.Publicly of course, no-one in Labour yet wants to talk about a split.
:02:13. > :02:14.But it turns out there have been conversations
:02:15. > :02:17.about what could happen if Mr Corbyn wins again.
:02:18. > :02:19.What the implications might be of MPs detaching themselves
:02:20. > :02:23.Is this a solution, or an aggravation
:02:24. > :02:36.Nick Watt has been looking at the rebel MPs options.
:02:37. > :02:43.It is hard lay summer of -- hardly a summer of love in the Labour Party.
:02:44. > :02:47.Jeremy Corbyn has lost the confidence of his MPs, but tonight
:02:48. > :02:54.thousands of supporters turned out for him in Liverpool. His
:02:55. > :03:00.challenger, Owen Smith, is putting up a fight. But thoughts are turning
:03:01. > :03:06.to life under a rejuvenated Jeremy Corbyn. A full split is being
:03:07. > :03:17.discussed on the fringes of the party, by the two historic splits in
:03:18. > :03:26.the Labour Party have left a painful legacy. For the moment, a full split
:03:27. > :03:31.is seen as a step too far. This unhappiness with Jeremy and people
:03:32. > :03:36.are worried about the general election, but I don't see any
:03:37. > :03:40.inclination for a split. I don't hear colleagues talking about it. I
:03:41. > :03:47.don't think it will happen. I think it is a media fixation. With a full
:03:48. > :03:51.split unlikely, some MPs are exploring other avenues. Some of
:03:52. > :03:56.Jeremy Corbyn's Labour opponents have been dusting down the
:03:57. > :04:01.Parliamentary rule books to see if they could be called the opposition
:04:02. > :04:06.if they can command greater support at Westminster. We understand both
:04:07. > :04:10.sides from Labour's war have been in touch with Parliamentary officials
:04:11. > :04:17.to see whether this is a realistic prospect. The rules it would appear
:04:18. > :04:22.are somewhat opaque. If a large breakaway group wanted to go to the
:04:23. > :04:24.speaker and claim to be the opposition, without breaking away
:04:25. > :04:29.officially from the Labour Party, that could place the Speaker in a
:04:30. > :04:34.difficult position. That in effect he would be making a judgment as to
:04:35. > :04:39.whether the Labour Party continued in its current form. In the shadows
:04:40. > :04:45.some Labour figures are looking at clipping Jeremy Corbyn's wings, by
:04:46. > :04:49.reviving the tradition of holding elections to the Shadow Cabinet.
:04:50. > :04:55.Labour MPs who are opposed to him would have the first say on changing
:04:56. > :05:00.the rules. If they were voting in Shadow Cabinet elections I imagine
:05:01. > :05:06.they would choose members they saw as more moderate and so you would
:05:07. > :05:10.have a party leader from one faction of the party and a Shadow Cabinet
:05:11. > :05:15.representing an alternative point of view. It is hard to see that they
:05:16. > :05:21.would be electing many Jeremy Corbyn supporters. That would change
:05:22. > :05:27.things. Reviving Shadow Cabinet elections would involve changing
:05:28. > :05:29.party rules, I would have to be approved by the national executive
:05:30. > :05:35.committee and the Labour Party conference. The most likely outcome
:05:36. > :05:39.may be a continuing stand off between Labour's opposing factions.
:05:40. > :05:43.We have spoke on the senior figures opposed to Jeremy Corbyn who say
:05:44. > :05:48.their best hope is for Theresa May to go back on her word and call an
:05:49. > :05:52.early general election to gain a mandate for the EU renegotiate
:05:53. > :06:00.shuns. Who would have thought that Labour MPs would look to a Tory
:06:01. > :06:09.Prime Minister to challenge their leader for them. Nick is with me.
:06:10. > :06:14.Let us focus on the conversations with The Speaker's office. If they
:06:15. > :06:21.concluded that can't work? It is interesting that the distrust is so
:06:22. > :06:25.great that the two factions have been holding separate informal
:06:26. > :06:29.meetings. What this shows about the Corbyn camp is they're so worried
:06:30. > :06:33.about their control of party, they're saying could this happen sta
:06:34. > :06:40.message they're getting is it is a matter in the hands of the Speaker
:06:41. > :06:46.the anti-Corbyn people say can we pull this off, because they're
:06:47. > :06:51.determined to marginalise Jeremy Corbyn. It comes down on the side of
:06:52. > :06:56.he or she who holds the title deeds of Labour Party, that will be Jeremy
:06:57. > :07:03.Corbyn and that explains why we are moving away from splits and
:07:04. > :07:10.breakaways. 75% of MPs said they didn't have confidence in Jeremy
:07:11. > :07:16.Corbyn. How many of them are serious enough to up the ante, as opposed we
:07:17. > :07:21.don't have confidence in him, but if the party want him we will stick
:07:22. > :07:30.with him. How many of those are there? That 80% figure looks good on
:07:31. > :07:36.Pape e but one of Jeremy Corbyn's opponents said it is a flimsy
:07:37. > :07:40.figure. This person said 60 who said they had no confidence in Jeremy
:07:41. > :07:44.Corbyn will rediscover their confidence if he is elected leader
:07:45. > :07:50.and you will have a functioning front bench. 30 will hunker down and
:07:51. > :07:54.MPs. And there may be a core group hostile, that was the phrase in the
:07:55. > :08:03.internal Jeremy Corbyn office group and this person said s as for us, we
:08:04. > :08:09.will be progressively picked off with deselections. This is why you
:08:10. > :08:14.came down this idea of stand off. What does that mean? Perhaps it mean
:08:15. > :08:20.another Tory government. What can it mean you have a disagreement between
:08:21. > :08:28.the leader and the bulk of his or her own MPs. It may see our
:08:29. > :08:32.favourite verb come back, that is unresignations, those who resigned
:08:33. > :08:35.will unresign and come back. Difficult for senior people to do
:08:36. > :08:38.that. Because we can play back what they said on these programmes. So
:08:39. > :08:45.that is the first thing. I think the second thing that will happen is the
:08:46. > :08:52.shadow, Shadow Cabinet. It is difficult to revive the rules and
:08:53. > :08:56.you may have a parallel op ocean where senior figures will stand up
:08:57. > :09:01.and say their own things. But some of those most ardent opponents of
:09:02. > :09:05.Jeremy Corbyn are saying weirdly their best hope is in Theresa May
:09:06. > :09:09.finding herself having to go back on her word and call a general election
:09:10. > :09:13.if she runs into difficulties over an EU mandate, because they say
:09:14. > :09:16.Jeremy Corbyn would struggle to do well there and then hopefully that
:09:17. > :09:20.would be their chance. But by then, you may have a very different Labour
:09:21. > :09:25.Party and many more MPs from the left. Thank you.
:09:26. > :09:28.The dead can't defend themselves, but their families can.
:09:29. > :09:30.And the family of the late Greville Janner, the long serving
:09:31. > :09:33.Labour MP for Leicester West and later a peer, are certainly
:09:34. > :09:35.fighting back against the numerous allegations that he sexually
:09:36. > :09:40.He died last year, after several years with dementia, having never
:09:41. > :09:49.He had been questioned in 1991, and there had been subsequent
:09:50. > :09:51.investigations into him, but without any action taken.
:09:52. > :09:56.Then last year, in the post-Saville era, his case shot to the fore.
:09:57. > :09:58.The Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales said
:09:59. > :10:01.that she thought there had been enough evidence in the past
:10:02. > :10:07.Despite her reservations and despite his illness,
:10:08. > :10:09.Janner made a brief, confused appearance in court
:10:10. > :10:20.However, the case against Greville Janner is down
:10:21. > :10:22.to be one topic of the huge Independent Inquiry
:10:23. > :10:27.into Child Sexual Abuse, under Justice Lowell Goddard.
:10:28. > :10:29.And that has annoyed the Janner family.
:10:30. > :10:32.To them he was a loving father who tried to help, not
:10:33. > :10:36.I sat down with Lord Janner's daughter Marion this
:10:37. > :10:41.afternoon, at her - and what had been his - home.
:10:42. > :10:48.I asked how aware of the allegation he was in the year before he died.
:10:49. > :10:50.Completely unaware, because he didn't have the cognitive
:10:51. > :10:54.understanding to grasp what was going on.
:10:55. > :10:58.So in fact, we had a news blackout in the house,
:10:59. > :11:01.so he had absolutely no idea - which was one of the
:11:02. > :11:08.The family have felt absolutely, 100% behind him all the way.
:11:09. > :11:10.You were personally obviously very loyal, you looked
:11:11. > :11:15.I wonder whether, at any point in that, you've
:11:16. > :11:18.had your own doubts or questions, or whether you have thought
:11:19. > :11:25.at any stage, did he abuse children in his past?
:11:26. > :11:28.No, no, absolutely not, because we have the evidence
:11:29. > :11:35.We know, so it's not a sort of blind loyalty
:11:36. > :11:40.because he was a wonderful dad, it just wasn't like that.
:11:41. > :11:42.It's the facts, we have had evidence, which is
:11:43. > :11:46.There are investigative journalists who have done some
:11:47. > :11:49.fantastic discovery work, and we know that he cannot have
:11:50. > :11:58.Let's focus on one case, which is actually the one, I think,
:11:59. > :12:02.in which most of the evidence has been accumulated and talked about.
:12:03. > :12:04.It's an interesting one, because obviously the facts
:12:05. > :12:08.Your father befriended the boy, he was a teenager,
:12:09. > :12:13.he was in a children's home and he saw quite a lot
:12:14. > :12:17.of your father, and your father wrote to him, love Greville letters,
:12:18. > :12:22.so there's no question about the relationship.
:12:23. > :12:28.And then this boy said it was a sexual relationship.
:12:29. > :12:30.Do, at the very least, you ever think to yourself,
:12:31. > :12:32.was that a bit weird, that relationship?
:12:33. > :12:36.It's not strange for somebody of dad's generation or for our family.
:12:37. > :12:40.My grandparents, dad's parents, had an open house during the war,
:12:41. > :12:47.so anyone could come and stay with them.
:12:48. > :12:51.We were a family who has a family of sort of history of rescuing
:12:52. > :12:53.people, and dad was fired up with a sense of social justice,
:12:54. > :12:56.and he was just really committed to helping people whose lives
:12:57. > :13:04.And because we have such a loving family, I think dad really fell
:13:05. > :13:06.for people who didn't have a family at all,
:13:07. > :13:09.and were stuck in a children's home, so it seemed, at the
:13:10. > :13:16.Looking back you think, that was naive, risky,
:13:17. > :13:19.courageous, but at the time it just seemed like the right thing to do.
:13:20. > :13:29.It seemed absolutely the right thing to do.
:13:30. > :13:32.One of the facts, and I think it's disputed, is whether or not your
:13:33. > :13:36.father spent the night alone with this chap over some periods.
:13:37. > :13:39.He claims it was at the Holiday Inn in Leicester, with your father,
:13:40. > :13:42.The Scottish case has been looked at, hasn't it?
:13:43. > :13:48.Are you convinced there were no points at which your father
:13:49. > :13:52.actually spent the night with this complainant?
:13:53. > :13:55.I've absolutely no idea, but if he did, it would have been
:13:56. > :14:02.Obviously, we now regret that he put himself in a position
:14:03. > :14:05.where he was open to accusation, but it was done out
:14:06. > :14:10.What do you think of the process now?
:14:11. > :14:13.We've got a country that has obviously become greatly more
:14:14. > :14:16.concerned about these issues than it used to be.
:14:17. > :14:21.Justice Lowell Goddard is leading an inquiry into child abuse,
:14:22. > :14:25.and your father is one stream of this inquiry.
:14:26. > :14:31.It's an outrage, it's an absolute outrage.
:14:32. > :14:33.The other 12 strands are all institutions,
:14:34. > :14:36.big institutions - the NHS, the church -
:14:37. > :14:39.and there's one strand on one individual who was never convicted,
:14:40. > :14:41.and at the time, at this round of accusations,
:14:42. > :14:45.had severe dementia so couldn't defend himself, and is now dead.
:14:46. > :14:50.It doesn't contain within it the possibility of justice.
:14:51. > :14:53.It goes against everything that the British believe in.
:14:54. > :14:55.There's not the possibility of the other side of
:14:56. > :15:02.It's the people making the accusations' word,
:15:03. > :15:04.against a corpse, which doesn't work.
:15:05. > :15:07.It cannot be just, it cannot be right.
:15:08. > :15:12.The numbers and the persistence of cases and chatter,
:15:13. > :15:18.It's been well described by other people who've been
:15:19. > :15:25.proved false accusations, and they've come out the other end
:15:26. > :15:32.That actually, if you're in a situation where you can make
:15:33. > :15:36.such a serious allegation about someone, and be
:15:37. > :15:41.I mean, frankly you don't have a lot to lose.
:15:42. > :15:43.Justice Lowell Goddard is presumably an intelligent and bright person,
:15:44. > :15:48.and a bit worldwide and who will make judgments about the evidence
:15:49. > :15:51.and isn't just going to hear it all in a completely naive way
:15:52. > :15:54.and just write it down and say, here's what happened.
:15:55. > :15:58.Presumably this is now the first time someone is going, in public,
:15:59. > :16:02.to sit down and pronounce in a kind of objective way, listening to all
:16:03. > :16:07.How can it be all sides of the argument, with dad dead?
:16:08. > :16:12.And also, the individuals can't be cross-examined, because
:16:13. > :16:20.People are being automatically believed, so anyone can
:16:21. > :16:22.come forward and say, this person did this to me,
:16:23. > :16:25.this person did that to me, or Greville Janner did this to me,
:16:26. > :16:28.and will be automatically believed, so the process is grotesque
:16:29. > :16:34.Marion Janner, thank you very much
:16:35. > :16:46.In response to that interview today lawyers for Lord Janner's alleged
:16:47. > :16:48.victim says they cannot have been waiting years for justice.
:16:49. > :16:51.You don't have to go back far to remember Hugo Chavez's Venezuela
:16:52. > :16:53.being hailed as a beacon of socialist success -
:16:54. > :16:56.a country that had rejected western imposed neo-liberalism and carved
:16:57. > :17:00.Well, it's not a beacon of anything at the moment.
:17:01. > :17:03.It has gone badly wrong in the post-Chavez years,
:17:04. > :17:05.and they are not keen on people
:17:06. > :17:09.In essence, when oil prices fell, the money ran out.
:17:10. > :17:13.BBC reporter Vladimir Hernandez grew up in Venezuela and has been
:17:14. > :17:16.there with film-maker Greg Brosnan, looking at what that means
:17:17. > :17:31.This is what a trip to the supermarket looks like in Venezuela.
:17:32. > :17:35.A lot of people have come up to us and told us how angry they are,
:17:36. > :17:38.because they've been here for over 12 hours and they've not been able
:17:39. > :17:43.This man in blue warns us, they've seen you.
:17:44. > :17:55.And then we're surrounded by soldiers.
:17:56. > :17:59.Welcome to my country, Venezuela, a country of food queues
:18:00. > :18:01.that the government doesn't want us filming, a country
:18:02. > :18:24.As soon as we get out the car, people have started shouting
:18:25. > :18:29.and telling us that they're hungry, really.
:18:30. > :18:31.They told me they have been protesting for three days
:18:32. > :18:56.Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro faces an economic crisis unlike any
:18:57. > :19:03.The socialist experiment his predecessor, Hugo Chavez,
:19:04. > :19:05.began 17 years ago is failing, triggering massive food
:19:06. > :19:14.Maduro inherited Chavez's socialist experiment,
:19:15. > :19:18.but not the high oil prices that financed his public spending.
:19:19. > :19:52.This man is blind and relies on government food aid.
:19:53. > :19:56.This woman is feeding her baby with sugared water.
:19:57. > :20:06.She said she can't produce breastmilk, she's too malnourished.
:20:07. > :20:09.She was eating three times a day when she took this picture a year
:20:10. > :20:39.ago. There is some food on sale, but most
:20:40. > :20:42.people can't afford to buy it. Venezuela has the highest inflation
:20:43. > :20:46.in the world and it's hitting the poor hardest. The government has
:20:47. > :20:51.made some staples like flour and rice available at pre-inflation
:20:52. > :20:55.prices, but there's not enough to go around. That is the supermarket, and
:20:56. > :21:00.those queues of people, who have been there since the early hours,
:21:01. > :21:04.been told there is flour today. These cues literally go round all of
:21:05. > :21:08.the building, going downstairs into the basement, and then come up again
:21:09. > :21:15.until they are finally able to get into the supermarket, hoping to get
:21:16. > :21:20.flour. President Maduro took over when the long serving President Hugo
:21:21. > :21:25.Chavez died three years ago to stop his popularity has plunged, as many
:21:26. > :21:29.Venezuelans claimed their hunger on his economic mismanagement. The
:21:30. > :21:35.government says it's not to blame, but the victim of an economic war,
:21:36. > :21:36.waged by speculators and foreign powers intent on regime change in
:21:37. > :21:52.Venezuela. This is where the Venezuelan
:21:53. > :21:57.government shows its military strength, with missile launchers,
:21:58. > :21:58.this is a country that rises, but here they are trying to show they
:21:59. > :22:15.are still strong. President Maduro's official term
:22:16. > :22:20.lasts until 2019. A movement is pushing for a referendum and to
:22:21. > :22:22.remove him from office early. For now, Venezuelans will have to wait
:22:23. > :22:24.in line. Vladimir Hernandez reporting,
:22:25. > :22:25.and he was working with There's a longer
:22:26. > :22:29.version on the iPlayer. Look for the Our World documentary
:22:30. > :22:31.series and you'll see You get quite a lot of perks
:22:32. > :22:40.as a Prime Minister - the house, the cat, the opportunity to mingle
:22:41. > :22:43.with world leaders and the chance to pretend you might
:22:44. > :22:45.detonate a nuclear weapon. But you also get some
:22:46. > :22:47.power to bestow honours David Cameron's farewell honours
:22:48. > :22:52.list has been leaked, and it seems an an OBE is in store
:22:53. > :22:55.for Samantha's stylist, and a Companion of Honour
:22:56. > :22:57.for George Osborne. One or two useful funders
:22:58. > :23:00.get a gong, and a few The list has aroused howls
:23:01. > :23:03.of outrage and surprise - although it's hardly the first time
:23:04. > :23:06.a Prime Minister's use the power The basic question is whether it's
:23:07. > :23:16.right the PM should have some slips in a pocket
:23:17. > :23:21.or handbag, to offer people. I'm joined by Lord Bell, Tim Bell,
:23:22. > :23:25.who was knighted in the Thatcher resignation honours and became
:23:26. > :23:39.a peer later on, and writer Good evening to you both. Yasmin,
:23:40. > :23:45.you had an MBE at one stage? I did. It's one of the things I most
:23:46. > :23:52.regret, accepting. I did return it over the Iraq war. It's so easy, I
:23:53. > :23:55.can't describe to you how easy it is to feel incredibly, foolishly
:23:56. > :24:01.flattered. That you will be more precious and important than the
:24:02. > :24:05.others. And MBE as well? Yes, but even so, it's so easy, so I do
:24:06. > :24:11.understand what it means. Did it mean a lot to you, when you got the
:24:12. > :24:16.knighthood in that that Shell resignation, what did that mean to
:24:17. > :24:22.you? I was extremely grateful. And very flattered, and it meant a great
:24:23. > :24:27.deal to me, it still does. It didn't mean anything to anybody else, but
:24:28. > :24:35.so what? What did you get it for, do you think? I got it for services to
:24:36. > :24:40.the former Prime Minister. I worked for her for 15 years, for nothing
:24:41. > :24:45.and I thoroughly enjoyed myself, I had a wonderful time. I met lots of
:24:46. > :24:49.people I liked, I had a great time, I was given a night to it, I was
:24:50. > :24:53.very proud of it, I Worrallo with pride and I will continue to do so.
:24:54. > :25:02.I'm interested. It seemed right that she should express her gratitude in
:25:03. > :25:05.some way. A handwritten note would be... I suppose the controversy is
:25:06. > :25:10.whether the Prime Minister should have the power to use our honour,
:25:11. > :25:16.our respect and bestow that upon you with a public,. Would you think of
:25:17. > :25:21.that? It seems a bit strange, really. You were working for her as
:25:22. > :25:26.a political ally. Yes? As an adviser, actually. Yes, I don't
:25:27. > :25:31.think it means anything at all. It's like being given a box of
:25:32. > :25:37.chocolates. It doesn't carry any weight whatsoever. The peerage is
:25:38. > :25:41.slightly different, because I get a chance to speak in the legislature
:25:42. > :25:49.and I can help pass laws and end laws, its a different concept. I was
:25:50. > :25:52.a elected as a peer, which means have a vote in the House of Lords,
:25:53. > :26:01.and that's another job, and I get paid for it. That's different. How
:26:02. > :26:05.outrageous is it, do you think about the Prime Minister does have this
:26:06. > :26:09.right? Prime ministers need to get things done, basically. This is like
:26:10. > :26:18.billionaires getting goody bags, it's like that. Lord Bell was very
:26:19. > :26:24.successful and had a lot of power and a lot of influence. Why did you
:26:25. > :26:29.need this damp, this goody bag, on top of it? And it isn't personal.
:26:30. > :26:34.Like I said, I didn't want to take it but I was enormously flattered. I
:26:35. > :26:42.understand. It's just wrong for any political leader to use it as a gift
:26:43. > :26:46.bag for their friends. Lord Bell? You say it was impersonal, it was
:26:47. > :26:51.entirely personal. It was given to me in her resignation less. No me,
:26:52. > :26:54.I'm not being personal. I just want to push you on this, Yasmin Alibai
:26:55. > :27:00.Brown, the argument has been put this is the least corrupt way of
:27:01. > :27:03.Prime Minister 's rewarding loyalty and being nice to friends, and if
:27:04. > :27:09.you take away these little things they can give away then you start
:27:10. > :27:12.getting brown envelopes. Most people who get these are incredibly
:27:13. > :27:17.powerful and many of them are incredibly rich. They don't need
:27:18. > :27:25.anything extra. Look, I don't know of a single care worker who is a
:27:26. > :27:29.Dame, there isn't one. They go to certain kinds of people. I own
:27:30. > :27:33.means, the political parties can have their own reward system, they
:27:34. > :27:36.can take them on holidays, that's fine. We're talking about the
:27:37. > :27:40.difference between the political parties and the nation and we need
:27:41. > :27:50.something that doesn't have a stench bust up Lord Bal, the question is...
:27:51. > :27:54.Stench? I am not worth anything. And I don't have fortunes of money and
:27:55. > :28:04.everything I've got I worked for. None of it was given to me by
:28:05. > :28:09.anybody. You can have the envy argument, but it is pointless. In
:28:10. > :28:13.your experience, does actually motivate people? A backbench MP,
:28:14. > :28:17.been a bit of a troublemaker in the past and then the Prime Minister
:28:18. > :28:24.wants you to come onside and come on matey Foster explained to me how it
:28:25. > :28:29.works? Is it explicit? I don't recognise the example you gave me.
:28:30. > :28:34.I'm sure it can be imagined, I'm sure people can dream it up, but I'm
:28:35. > :28:38.not aware of it. I wasn't a troublesome backbencher, I was very
:28:39. > :28:42.much at the forefront of the campaign is, and I got rewarded for
:28:43. > :28:50.the things I've done. I was very grateful for it. I thought it was a
:28:51. > :28:53.very nice gesture by Mrs Thatcher and the people who approved it. It
:28:54. > :28:57.doesn't make any difference what anybody else says, it won't make any
:28:58. > :29:01.difference to how proud I am. That's fine, but there is a very serious
:29:02. > :29:04.argument to be had here. People still like to think there is no
:29:05. > :29:08.corruption in Britain. There are subtle forms of corruption. I
:29:09. > :29:14.personally know of people, two men who played paper money and got an
:29:15. > :29:18.MBE and then got a higher something and then got into the Lords. It was
:29:19. > :29:22.a very systematic thing. And it worked. Now there is something wrong
:29:23. > :29:25.here. I like them very much as individuals, but there is something
:29:26. > :29:29.wrong, where there is this perception that things can be
:29:30. > :29:33.bought, these things can be bought. In fairness we have known this for
:29:34. > :29:41.quite a while going back to the 1920s. You know that you don't need
:29:42. > :29:47.to respect Lord Bell and his honour, but if you want to you can. We need
:29:48. > :29:51.a good, clean, honours system which isn't dependent on patronage from
:29:52. > :29:55.the political leaders and I would go further, that not even patronage
:29:56. > :29:58.from the Royal family. It needs to be independent, it needs to be
:29:59. > :30:03.something that everybody feels they can get.
:30:04. > :30:11.Lord Bell enjoy your Hon hours. I don't have the faintest, how you
:30:12. > :30:15.create the system. We need to leave it there. Thank you both.
:30:16. > :30:19.You know it's August by the way, not just because it's been raining,
:30:20. > :30:21.but because we're down to a shorter duration for 30 minutes
:30:22. > :30:25.The Government announced today that the license fee will be
:30:26. > :30:27.extended to the iPlayer from September 1st.
:30:28. > :30:29.We're not quite sure if the semi-mythical TV detector
:30:30. > :30:32.vans will be able to enforce this, or if indeed they still exist.
:30:33. > :30:54.Yes, there is a TV set at No 5. It is in the front room. And they're
:30:55. > :30:57.watching Columbo. If you don't have a TV licence it won't take us long
:30:58. > :30:58.to find you.