:00:15. > :00:16.Tens of thousands of children have died horrific deaths
:00:17. > :00:22.Can this desolate image of Omran Daqneesh, who miraculously
:00:23. > :00:24.survived an air strike, help prevent further
:00:25. > :00:30.I'll be asking our own Lyse Doucet, the International Rescue Committee,
:00:31. > :00:34.and a war photographer in the Middle East.
:00:35. > :00:37.Vote Labour to stay in the European Union and to have
:00:38. > :00:44.The columnist, Rod Liddle, on why Labour holds no appeal
:00:45. > :00:49.And who better to ask whether these have been a vintage
:00:50. > :01:03.Oh, my God, we had the St John Ambulance
:01:04. > :01:18.You might not know his name, but you will most likely know
:01:19. > :01:20.what five-year-old Omran Daqneesh looks like - the traumatised,
:01:21. > :01:23.bloodied and almost resigned looking little boy in the ambulance
:01:24. > :01:25.after an air strike on a rebel-held neighbourhood
:01:26. > :01:30.He stares at the camera as if to say - this is what is happening
:01:31. > :01:32.to thousands of children because adults are making
:01:33. > :01:35.The image has been viewed by millions,
:01:36. > :01:37.but will it have any impact on the conflict in Syria?
:01:38. > :01:39.Here's Secunder Kermani and his piece features
:01:40. > :01:58.On average, one Syrian child has died every two hours for the past
:01:59. > :02:05.five years. Most will never make the front pages of newspapers. But even
:02:06. > :02:09.amongst the international weariness that is greeting the Syrian
:02:10. > :02:17.conflict, these images from Aleppo still have the capacity to shock.
:02:18. > :02:21.Five-year-old, Omran Daqneesh, is filmed by activists as he's rescued
:02:22. > :02:24.from the rubble after an air strike on a rebel-held part of the city.
:02:25. > :02:28.He is placed alone in the back of the ambulance. Despite the
:02:29. > :02:32.devastation he's witnessed, he doesn't shout and scream, but
:02:33. > :02:34.silently wipes his eyes. It's an awful image and it's gone around the
:02:35. > :02:40.world, but it's far from unusual. Omran is very lucky because
:02:41. > :02:43.the camera took the picture of him, but most of the kids
:02:44. > :02:46.they were killed without any trace. They just pass away
:02:47. > :02:48.and no-one knows them. Omran is very lucky because
:02:49. > :02:54.the camera took the picture of him, Every day, when we go
:02:55. > :02:57.to the locations, when we go to the bombing, most of the victims
:02:58. > :03:07.are kids, are babies, The sign this boy is holding up
:03:08. > :03:11.alongside a picture says, "save me" Activists have been trying to draw
:03:12. > :03:17.the attention to the children's plight in Syria they have tried to
:03:18. > :03:21.capitalise on the game pokeman Go. 400,000 people have been killed in
:03:22. > :03:25.the conflict, it's believed. Some reports estimate that includes
:03:26. > :03:28.20,000 children. The vast majority have been killed by the Assad
:03:29. > :04:08.regime. Through its use of air strikes.
:04:09. > :04:13.A meeting was cut short in frustration of the failure to allow
:04:14. > :04:21.aid into the besieged areas. No humanitarian aid is reaching
:04:22. > :04:26.anywhere in Syria. The Russians will allow a 4 #-hours truce next week.
:04:27. > :04:30.Who would account against more terrible images appearing on you are
:04:31. > :04:33.our scenes. The picture is being compared to the boy drowned in the
:04:34. > :04:37.Mediterranean fleeing Syria. How much of a turning point in the
:04:38. > :04:41.refugee crisis was that in the end? Here's one of the images being
:04:42. > :04:55.shared online of the two of them together.
:04:56. > :04:59.Omran Daqneesh is out of hospital now.
:05:00. > :05:01.We're joined by Muhammed Muheisen, Associated Press Chief Photographer
:05:02. > :05:03.for the Middle East and by Sanj Srikanthan,
:05:04. > :05:05.the Director of Humanitarian Policy for the International Rescue
:05:06. > :05:07.First, our chief international correspondent, Lyse Ducet.
:05:08. > :05:11.This comes at a critical moment for Syria. What do you think? There is
:05:12. > :05:15.only months left before Secretary of State John Kerry has to say - I did
:05:16. > :05:19.my best, but I didn't succeed. He is giving it another push. It has been
:05:20. > :05:24.months now that he has been talking, often alone, with Russia's Sergei
:05:25. > :05:28.Lavrov to try to get some kind of a hes cessation of hostilties, a
:05:29. > :05:32.truce, as they call it, to allow them to return to talks. The road to
:05:33. > :05:37.any peace, if it's possible at all in Syria, goes through Moscow and
:05:38. > :05:44.Washington. Will this image in its own way put pressure on Putin and
:05:45. > :05:46.Obama? Everyone is mentioning it. John Kirby mentioned it at the state
:05:47. > :05:52.department. Everyone is talking about it. What Syria needs now is
:05:53. > :05:57.action. There is such a knot now, there is not a conflict in the world
:05:58. > :06:01.now. He talk about it as being the worst conflict he has intervened in.
:06:02. > :06:06.He intervened in a lot. You have Russia, the United States, you have
:06:07. > :06:09.Iran all of the Gulf States. Kurds. The Syrians and the so-called
:06:10. > :06:14.Islamic State and the groups linked to Al-Qaeda. If it's almost
:06:15. > :06:19.intractable, Obama's got four months? John Kerry still says he
:06:20. > :06:22.thinks there is a way out. He's known to be an optimist. The
:06:23. > :06:26.Russians want to find a way out. To use the phrase - they don't want it
:06:27. > :06:29.to become another Afghanistan. Aleppo is the prize in a very big
:06:30. > :06:39.contest for a struggle for control in the Middle East. It's - for Syria
:06:40. > :06:43.it's a devastating war, a proxy war, Caesarean war and a new cold war.
:06:44. > :06:49.You have to stop all of them if you are going to stop it. Muhammed, as a
:06:50. > :06:54.photographer, tell me what your reaction was to that image.
:06:55. > :07:00.Presumably through your lens you see images like that practically every
:07:01. > :07:06.day in Syria? It's a very sad. It's a haunting image. It's a single
:07:07. > :07:10.image that tells the story of a five-year-old in a growing conflict.
:07:11. > :07:14.That the power of photography or the power of this image. That this image
:07:15. > :07:21.is trending right now. It's reaching the heart of the public and that's
:07:22. > :07:25.the biggest recognition of a picture when it reaches the public and
:07:26. > :07:31.people start to feel con nexted. If I'm a father and I have a child, I
:07:32. > :07:34.would look at my child and say - I'm lucky we have a roof. As a
:07:35. > :07:40.photographer, when you both see, when you take and see, as was in our
:07:41. > :07:45.reporter's package there, images of many dead children in Syria, why is
:07:46. > :07:52.this image of a survivor, in a way, been the one that has arrested
:07:53. > :07:55.people's attention? This image shows a hopeless child, left alone in the
:07:56. > :07:59.back of an ambulance in a way it tells - it talks about the whole
:08:00. > :08:06.story. How the situation is hopeless. That the child was left
:08:07. > :08:12.alone, waiting for help. It's a child. Children are the real victim
:08:13. > :08:17.of this conflict. It's not just a picture, I think it's the whole
:08:18. > :08:23.story by itself. I want to put that to you, first of all, now, Sanj
:08:24. > :08:27.Srikanthan. Is the whole story because the children have no futures
:08:28. > :08:31.if it's not resolved? That's right. They haven't had a future for five
:08:32. > :08:35.years. They've lived through war. Over a million were born and have
:08:36. > :08:39.liveded and only known conflict. So what was sad about that photo and
:08:40. > :08:43.the video was that that child is beyond terror. He's in a place that
:08:44. > :08:46.no child should be. He's been schooled in trying to avoid air
:08:47. > :08:50.strikes and doing all those kind of things. We look at that image, we
:08:51. > :08:57.wonder if it will make any difference. Do you think it will? We
:08:58. > :09:02.know the image of the boy in the Mediterranean arrested the world's
:09:03. > :09:05.attention. Only for a time. There is a window an opportunity to get a
:09:06. > :09:09.ceasefire into places like Aleppo that haven't received aid since
:09:10. > :09:12.early July. If that image can achieve that. That's not the
:09:13. > :09:15.solution we are looking for, which is a permanent peace, it's
:09:16. > :09:21.something. When we have... The fact is that little boy is sitting there.
:09:22. > :09:25.We know people on both side of the divide are willing to put children
:09:26. > :09:30.on the front-line anyway there is a cynicism, isn't there? Aid workers
:09:31. > :09:34.are the most cynical of trying to do their best in these times, is that
:09:35. > :09:36.both sides are more interested in winning the conflict than saving
:09:37. > :09:42.children's lives. That's the sad true. Muhammed, are you very.
:09:43. > :09:50.Aware when you're taking a photograph of the photograph that
:09:51. > :09:57.might be counter into youively that might make a difference It depends.
:09:58. > :10:02.What I believe... The importance of photography, the importance of being
:10:03. > :10:06.there, that sometimes there are many events happen that wasn't captured
:10:07. > :10:09.or documented, so it feels like it never happened. Luckily, this
:10:10. > :10:18.picture was captured and went out there. This is also the importance
:10:19. > :10:22.of journalism, photojournalism. If we have access to document things we
:10:23. > :10:25.will see a lot of that. I believe there are dozens of images
:10:26. > :10:30.happening, and no-one captured it. So it never made it out there. Do
:10:31. > :10:36.you believe your work can make a difference Of course. Of course. I
:10:37. > :10:40.think, simply, when the pictures start... Goes out there, people
:10:41. > :10:44.start talking about it. It already created a change. It reached
:10:45. > :10:48.people's hearts and minds. Changed people's way of looking and thinking
:10:49. > :10:56.of things. Instead of thinking of Syria, now there is a name, there is
:10:57. > :11:01.a killed call Omran. It makes people think. Instead of not what is
:11:02. > :11:04.happening in Syria because it doesn't involve them right now.
:11:05. > :11:09.People are aware there is a conflict going on. It's a reminder. It's a
:11:10. > :11:13.reminder. Thank you very much. There will be a temptation, wouldn't
:11:14. > :11:17.there, for aid agencies and so forth and different rescue missions to use
:11:18. > :11:20.an image like this? I don't think we use the image, it's happening every
:11:21. > :11:23.day. In fact, the photographer who took it said - I was surprised
:11:24. > :11:27.because I take photos like this every day. It's the reality. I think
:11:28. > :11:33.if people who watch the image and see the story behind it realise the
:11:34. > :11:36.sacrifices, not just families are making, but the 35 remaining doctors
:11:37. > :11:40.in Aleppo are making I think that's something worthy. We forget the
:11:41. > :11:45.doctors are few and far between now. We should say that five children did
:11:46. > :11:50.die today. Perhaps we shoulded have their image up as well? Images like
:11:51. > :11:54.this they strike a chord with the public. It gives ammunition to the
:11:55. > :11:58.would be peacemakers. Whether it's enough for the real ammunition on
:11:59. > :12:00.the ground which grows more violent by the day is the question now.
:12:01. > :12:08.Thank you all very. Indeed.
:12:09. > :12:11.On Newsnight last night, we revealed that the gap in funding
:12:12. > :12:14.for the Garden Bridge was far bigger than the Trust had previously
:12:15. > :12:16.admitted - some ?56 million, rather than ?32 million.
:12:17. > :12:18.The Chairman of the Trustees, Lord Mervyn Davies, told Evan
:12:19. > :12:21.that the project had become more expensive and also that the bridge
:12:22. > :12:24.would not be open in 2018, but rather 2019.
:12:25. > :12:26.But straight away this morning, the Trust issued a statement
:12:27. > :12:37.The statement was one thing, straight after the programme, the
:12:38. > :12:42.second was the language of the statement? Absolutely. It used
:12:43. > :12:46.phrases like, "this is a crucial time" it was pleading with the
:12:47. > :12:52.Government not to withdraw its support - It "would be a tragedy"?
:12:53. > :12:57.Exactly. A tragedy perhaps for the taxpayer who has already spent ?36
:12:58. > :13:02.million, that is never coming back. Infect, what the Trust was saying
:13:03. > :13:06.was that, if the Government doesn't agree to extend an existing
:13:07. > :13:11.arrangement where it's underwriting the project, then it's doomed. There
:13:12. > :13:17.was a real sense of worry, of nervousness. On the part of the
:13:18. > :13:21.Trust. Hands up the back? There is a lot of money to raise there. Are
:13:22. > :13:27.other existing hurdles. Also, viewers might remember that last
:13:28. > :13:32.months Newsnight explained that the mood in Government towards this
:13:33. > :13:35.project is cooler than it has been. The London Mayor has voiced
:13:36. > :13:40.concerns? The London Mayor and George Osborne, one of its greatest
:13:41. > :13:43.fans have gone. Whitehall sources told us today that they reject the
:13:44. > :13:47.idea that the fate of the bridge is in their hands. They say that's not
:13:48. > :13:51.fair. In fact, it's the Trust who have to get a hold of this project.
:13:52. > :13:54.It's for them to say if they can make it work and for them to
:13:55. > :13:59.ultimately pull the plug if they can't. It's seems an unhappy
:14:00. > :14:02.partnership at the moment. Are the Trust looking for more money from
:14:03. > :14:07.the Government? That's an interesting question. We we don't
:14:08. > :14:11.quite know. One of the things about this project is, it's so secretive,
:14:12. > :14:15.maybe too strong a word. There is so little information out there.
:14:16. > :14:19.Opaque? Opaque. Little information in the public domain. The Trust have
:14:20. > :14:23.been quite clear about what they're asking. This is how they described
:14:24. > :14:53.the current situation: But our understanding is that the
:14:54. > :14:56.government is less clear about that. They are concerned that if they
:14:57. > :15:02.agreed to extend the underwriting for another year, they could be
:15:03. > :15:06.liable for more money. We are told categorically there is no more. They
:15:07. > :15:11.have pledged ?30 million and that is it. They said they are not in the
:15:12. > :15:13.business of backing white elephants. The future of the bridge is still
:15:14. > :15:15.uncertain. Thank you for joining us. When the Labour Party meets
:15:16. > :15:18.for its annual conference in Liverpool next month,
:15:19. > :15:20.there will be a "me and my political shadow" moment -
:15:21. > :15:23.well, the whole four days actually. Momentum will be in town and both
:15:24. > :15:27.Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell will be preparing two speeches each
:15:28. > :15:30.- one for the Labour conference delegates,
:15:31. > :15:34.the other for Momentum's membership. For the writer and sometimes
:15:35. > :15:39.splenetic columnist, Rod Liddle, this might be the moment that
:15:40. > :15:43.sends him over the edge, as he ponders on why Labour's
:15:44. > :15:46.lost its way and its working-class He begins his report
:15:47. > :15:49.for Newsnight in Middlesborough, This is Teesside,
:15:50. > :15:57.about as resolutely, uncompromisingly Labour
:15:58. > :16:02.as anywhere in the country. And yet like almost all
:16:03. > :16:05.working-class areas beyond London, Teesside is rapidly
:16:06. > :16:08.becoming disenchanted with the party Brexit was a real
:16:09. > :16:16.glorious revolution, a sort of cri de coeur
:16:17. > :16:18.on the part of people who felt
:16:19. > :16:25.marginalised, unlistened to and increasingly averse from the liberal
:16:26. > :16:27.politics of both the Establishment, and crucially, for this
:16:28. > :16:29.issue, the Labour Party. Because while this
:16:30. > :16:30.is Brexit heartland -
:16:31. > :16:32.70% voted to Leave in Hartlepool over the water,
:16:33. > :16:34.66% back there in Middlesbrough -
:16:35. > :16:38.it is not just about that. It's also about having
:16:39. > :16:44.respect for the family, for the country, a sense of
:16:45. > :16:48.patriotism and belief in Britain. It's about doing a fair day's work
:16:49. > :16:52.for a fair day's pay and also not being paid welfare -
:16:53. > :16:58.if you don't give, you don't get. The current Labour Party is largely
:16:59. > :17:00.immune to the aspirations of ordinary
:17:01. > :17:03.working-class voters, when it is not I thought I'd present
:17:04. > :17:08.a cheerful parody of Labour's current mindset
:17:09. > :17:12.to the people of my hometown. In exactly the spot,
:17:13. > :17:15.as it happens, where I once sold The Socialist Worker
:17:16. > :17:18.as an imbecilic youth. Vote Labour to stay
:17:19. > :17:22.in the European Union and to Bring the experience
:17:23. > :17:28.of Islington to Middlesbrough. Vote Labour for Fairtrade coffee,
:17:29. > :17:31.muesli, solidarity with Cuba, peace, love,
:17:32. > :17:35.happiness everywhere Are you a Labour voter?
:17:36. > :17:40.No. Have you always voted Labour?
:17:41. > :17:45.Always. And do you like Labour now
:17:46. > :17:47.under Jeremy Corbyn? To tell you the truth,
:17:48. > :17:49.I don't like any of them. Do you think they are out of touch
:17:50. > :17:52.with the Do you think we need more
:17:53. > :17:56.immigration in this country? You're having a laugh, aren't you?
:17:57. > :18:01.More? Sir, what we want in this country
:18:02. > :18:03.is more immigration, correct? The power in the Labour
:18:04. > :18:12.Party has not resided These days, it lives
:18:13. > :18:17.somewhere else entirely. This is Islington, of course,
:18:18. > :18:23.and this is my granola, pistachio and blueberry
:18:24. > :18:29.porridge with Greek yoghurt. This is Jeremy Corbyn's neck
:18:30. > :18:31.of the woods, of course. At one point under Jeremy,
:18:32. > :18:35.there were three members of his Shadow Cabinet from Islington
:18:36. > :18:37.itself, more than in the entire I don't know if that
:18:38. > :18:41.is still true today because I don't know who's
:18:42. > :18:44.in the Shadow Cabinet. One minute they're there,
:18:45. > :18:46.the next minute they're sobbing their hearts out
:18:47. > :18:51.on The World At One. The place has become a sort
:18:52. > :18:53.of byword, a cliche, which somehow represents
:18:54. > :18:55.the distance between Labour I'm here to meet someone who might
:18:56. > :19:01.offer the party a little hope. Lord Glassman, architect
:19:02. > :19:03.of New Labour, and adviser Why is Labour in the trouble
:19:04. > :19:09.it's in, do you think? Well, it's just lost its
:19:10. > :19:13.relationship with the working class, and with working-class leadership,
:19:14. > :19:16.with working-class values and And that's what we are seeing
:19:17. > :19:23.is supposed to be Labour. How it happened has been
:19:24. > :19:26.a long time coming. It was always a coalition
:19:27. > :19:29.between the progressive middle-class, reforming,
:19:30. > :19:32.Fabian and more conservative socially and more economically
:19:33. > :19:36.radical working-class. But over the years,
:19:37. > :19:37.the sort of university Social democrats across Europe
:19:38. > :19:42.are facing a really difficult strategic dilemma because on the one
:19:43. > :19:47.hand, they have half of their electorate or so that is comprised
:19:48. > :19:50.of traditional, blue-collar workers. On the other hand, they've got
:19:51. > :19:54.urban, middle-class, cosmopolitan, And those two groups think
:19:55. > :19:59.fundamentally differently about the key issues of the day,
:20:00. > :20:02.in particular immigration It's sort of Labour's
:20:03. > :20:15.Clause Four for today. The activists and many of the MPs
:20:16. > :20:19.won't go near it because of course, that massed ovine middle-class bleat
:20:20. > :20:22.of "racist" as soon as you raise the issue of immigration will be
:20:23. > :20:26.forthcoming from them. And yet, there's no antipathy
:20:27. > :20:29.in these places in the north The antipathy is towards the people
:20:30. > :20:33.who allowed uncontrolled immigration to change the culture of their towns
:20:34. > :20:41.and also to undercut their wages. And yet, the problems
:20:42. > :20:45.in the party seem intractable. A leader without the
:20:46. > :20:47.support of his MPs. MPs without the support
:20:48. > :20:50.of the activists. And the activists miles out
:20:51. > :21:05.of step with the voters. He was a Labour Party member until
:21:06. > :21:10.he was suspended earlier this year pending investigation. Barbara Ntumy
:21:11. > :21:17.from Momentum joined us as well. What do you make of Rod Liddle's
:21:18. > :21:21.analysis? I think it is stuck in a narrative that he's trying to
:21:22. > :21:24.create. I grew up in Barnsley, a working-class town and in the same
:21:25. > :21:28.way as you have Islington, which is consistently rated one of the
:21:29. > :21:31.poorest and most deprived areas in the country, in Barnsley, you have a
:21:32. > :21:35.place where more affluent and well off the bowling as opposed to the
:21:36. > :21:38.General working-class. The idea that just because people live in North
:21:39. > :21:43.London and in Jeremy's constituency, they don't understand what ordinary
:21:44. > :21:46.working class people go through is just nonsense. But Owen Jones, a
:21:47. > :21:50.supporter of Jeremy Corbyn said what he said was the party has got to
:21:51. > :21:55.deal with anxieties over immigration. Do you accept there are
:21:56. > :21:59.anxieties? Since 1940, every party in this country has sought to
:22:00. > :22:04.restrict immigration at the expense of immigrants. Immigrants you don't
:22:05. > :22:09.make laws on and enforce them cannot be blamed for low wages. The
:22:10. > :22:13.government has to enforce the wage and the law. I don't understand
:22:14. > :22:16.where this narrative... Actually, I do understand where this narrative
:22:17. > :22:19.comes from, with constructed narrative and found someone else to
:22:20. > :22:24.blame for the back employers are not willing to pay what wages are. But
:22:25. > :22:28.you accept that what we might call some traditional Labour supporters
:22:29. > :22:33.have anxieties over immigration? Their communities are being
:22:34. > :22:35.irrevocably changed. When we say traditional Labour voters, black
:22:36. > :22:39.people who have come from this country since the 1940s have been
:22:40. > :22:44.traditional Labour voters. Do their concerns when it comes to inequality
:22:45. > :22:49.and being able to access jobs not matter? Rod Liddle, the fact is
:22:50. > :22:54.whatever Brexit does, it doesn't... No one is going to be repatriated so
:22:55. > :22:58.in effect, that is not the issue. The issue is going to be jobs and
:22:59. > :23:03.wages. That is what Labour supporters are about. Lets put to
:23:04. > :23:09.rest the idea that this is a key of some kind because between 7019 80%
:23:10. > :23:12.of people in the country what immigration restricted, every
:23:13. > :23:15.opinion poll going back over the last ten years shows that.
:23:16. > :23:20.Increasingly, a greater proportion of black and ethnic minority
:23:21. > :23:24.immigrants want immigration restrained, more than 50%. The idea
:23:25. > :23:29.that this is just some old-fashioned, old hack, harking
:23:30. > :23:35.back to the old days is absurd. It is an absurdity. I find it slightly
:23:36. > :23:38.hilarious that someone who is a radical, a Labour Party radical, on
:23:39. > :23:43.the left wing of the party, should be so fervently in favour of the
:23:44. > :23:47.free movement of labour and capital. If you knew your marks, you would
:23:48. > :23:50.not be in favour of that. It is the thing which depreciates the wages of
:23:51. > :23:54.the lowest paid and it is also obviously the being who -- to the
:23:55. > :23:58.grotesque exploitation of the immigrant labour force which we see
:23:59. > :24:03.everyday in the newspapers. Rod Liddle is right, it has affected low
:24:04. > :24:08.skilled workers? That has always existed. This is not new. What we
:24:09. > :24:12.should be doing it again, in the way the European Union provides, legal
:24:13. > :24:16.routes for people to come to do low skilled wages but actually, the
:24:17. > :24:20.issue is, when you have a town like my Barnsley which gets barely any
:24:21. > :24:23.investment and creates jobs, the opportunities for people are to in
:24:24. > :24:26.the bread factory, the fashion factory or the check in factory.
:24:27. > :24:30.Those are the options. College funding has been consistently
:24:31. > :24:33.slashed. What other opportunities are there for people? You don't
:24:34. > :24:37.blame someone who's left everything in Europe to come and work in a low
:24:38. > :24:40.skilled cleaning job in a hospital. Are you saying that Labour
:24:41. > :24:45.supporters who do think immigration is an issue need to be re-educated?
:24:46. > :24:49.I'm not saying we need to be re-educated. People react to their
:24:50. > :24:52.realities but actually come immigrants aren't the problem. The
:24:53. > :24:54.fact we're not creating more opportunities for people to progress
:24:55. > :25:01.and get access to education and better is the problem. The
:25:02. > :25:03.government needs to do that. Where I think Barbara is absolutely right is
:25:04. > :25:07.about the levels of investment which this government has put into places
:25:08. > :25:14.like Barnsley and a lot of the North of England. It has been lamentable.
:25:15. > :25:17.Something needs to be done. A new Labour programme would devolve more
:25:18. > :25:20.power to the region and put far more investment into them. But I think it
:25:21. > :25:24.is cloud cuckoo land to believe that... To try to say that
:25:25. > :25:27.immigration hasn't cause these problems. I didn't say that
:25:28. > :25:30.immigration hasn't caused these problems. I said it is not the sole
:25:31. > :25:35.purpose of the narrative that you like to say that it is. What is the
:25:36. > :25:38.problem with demonising groups of people? That is what it is because
:25:39. > :25:43.when you get on TV and you say people are coming here to work three
:25:44. > :25:47.or four jobs in order to provide and their families... You misunderstand.
:25:48. > :25:52.You misunderstand and that is the problem. I can't speak and this is
:25:53. > :25:57.pointless. The point is that people should have opportunities which this
:25:58. > :26:00.government has failed to do. That is painted nonsense. I'm not demonising
:26:01. > :26:03.immigrants whatsoever and I wouldn't. I think the immigrants who
:26:04. > :26:08.come here worked very hard and I'm deeply opposed to David Cameron's
:26:09. > :26:11.plans to withdraw benefits from them, for example, like Polish
:26:12. > :26:14.immigrants, I think it's disgusting. People should be treated equally by
:26:15. > :26:19.the fact is, successive reports have shown that large-scale immigration
:26:20. > :26:22.and the larger scale, the worse it is, depresses the wages of the
:26:23. > :26:28.poorest people. People who have fought for years to have a decent
:26:29. > :26:31.stab dog living. Per the closing minutes, you characterise Momentum
:26:32. > :26:36.as being a party of the middle-class kind of liberals, the Islington set.
:26:37. > :26:41.Actually, Momentum, you have to say, is a broad swathe of support in all
:26:42. > :26:46.areas of England. Well, it's certainly got a broad suite of... It
:26:47. > :26:50.controls the Labour Party. There is no question about it, it controls
:26:51. > :26:53.the Labour Party. I would probably agree with Barbara that I don't
:26:54. > :26:56.think Jeremy Corbyn should have been challenged in the leadership
:26:57. > :27:01.election. He was democratically elected, for whatever fatuous
:27:02. > :27:04.reason, the party was opened up to hundreds of thousands... The reason
:27:05. > :27:07.why Jeremy was elected was because he does speak to those working class
:27:08. > :27:13.people in Middlesbrough because he's talking about investment. He really
:27:14. > :27:19.doesn't. There is no appetite whatsoever for Jeremy Corbyn. He
:27:20. > :27:22.talks about cradle to the grave education that people are not able
:27:23. > :27:28.to have now. Does he continually talk over other people as well?
:27:29. > :27:36.Labour is gaining more working-class voters under him. 28% in the polls.
:27:37. > :27:41.One accusation I want to put, is Rod Liddle said, Momentum controls the
:27:42. > :27:45.Labour Party. It does. Labour Party members control the Labour Party.
:27:46. > :27:49.They are the people who are active and involved. I'm a member of the
:27:50. > :27:53.Labour Party. I don't disagree, I think that is fair, I think I be mad
:27:54. > :27:58.Labour has been taken over largely by Momentum and people who support
:27:59. > :28:00.Jeremy Corbyn -- Jeremy Corbyn. I don't have an argument about that
:28:01. > :28:06.but the fact he's deeply unattractive to any bird in the
:28:07. > :28:09.north of the country... But we are allowed to organise. We are going to
:28:10. > :28:12.leave it there. Of course you are. Thank you for joining us.
:28:13. > :28:14.True story - our special Olympics feature, Throne of Games,
:28:15. > :28:17.was only meant to be a test broadcast, to put the new
:28:18. > :28:19.BBC transmitter at Theydon Bois through its paces.
:28:20. > :28:21.But then it snowballed into a phenomenon, with one leading
:28:22. > :28:23.critic describing it as "must-flee television."
:28:24. > :28:29.Tonight our man, Stephen Smith, is joined by wine queen,
:28:30. > :28:39.as he soaks up more Brazilian culture from
:28:40. > :28:43.Stephen Smith, a smudge of chalk on the leotard
:28:44. > :28:58.I've got the noted wine expert Jilly Goolden
:28:59. > :29:00.coming here in a minute and no hospitality budget.
:29:01. > :29:02.Still, although I'm not officially qualified
:29:03. > :29:06.as a sommelier, how hard can it be?
:29:07. > :29:13.I've got something for you here, Jilly.
:29:14. > :29:15.Here we are, Jilly, here's some wine I made...
:29:16. > :29:24.I'm getting base notes of licorice, jasmine
:29:25. > :29:38.My God, we had the St John's ambulance here for Angela Rippon,
:29:39. > :29:46.Brazil's got a big handicap when it comes to making wine in that most
:29:47. > :30:00.That looks like the wrap party for Food and Drink.
:30:01. > :30:05.Well, if you've got it, flaunt it, I suppose.
:30:06. > :30:25.Is it true that you were the first person to bring
:30:26. > :30:41.I decided to describe it in terms of everyday sense and flavours.
:30:42. > :30:43.So my best one was the gamay grape which makes Beaujolais,
:30:44. > :30:46.and that smells just like trainers running on hot tarmac.
:30:47. > :30:49.This is a bit more like the inside of the trainers,
:30:50. > :30:52.Trainers! Very Olympic.
:30:53. > :30:57.I'm not sure we know how to respond to this as a nation.
:30:58. > :31:02.We are used to being slightly rubbish and plucky losers.
:31:03. > :31:06.I hope we don't get too pumped up, actually.
:31:07. > :31:08.I quite like the sort of modest Brits.
:31:09. > :31:10.Fifth in the World Championship final this year.
:31:11. > :31:12.A consistent performer, reached the semifinals
:31:13. > :31:19.They must do lots of practising for falling off.
:31:20. > :31:28.Of all sports, which would you like to be the top athlete in?
:31:29. > :31:31.I can see myself in the dressage with all the gear.
:31:32. > :31:37.We'd be in it together because that would be mine.
:31:38. > :31:41.They'd have to give us some credit for that,
:31:42. > :32:01.Percent of the inside of trainers X Mac that's all we have time for
:32:02. > :32:20.tonight. Good night. -- the scent of the inside of trainers!
:32:21. > :32:22.After a wet start to the day in Northern Ireland, improving into the