:00:00. > :00:00.Five years on since the start of the Syrian uprising,
:00:07. > :00:09.Darayya surrenders after its near total-devastation.
:00:10. > :00:13.Assad's soldiers chant their victory.
:00:14. > :00:17.Thousands of civilians and hundreds of rebel soldiers are bussed out
:00:18. > :00:22.of one of the first towns to rise up against their government.
:00:23. > :00:24.Here in Geneva, the US Secretary of State, John Kerry,
:00:25. > :00:28.has finished his talks with Russia's Sergei Lavrov.
:00:29. > :00:30.Both leaders talked about narrowing their differences -
:00:31. > :00:32.can they really make a difference
:00:33. > :00:37.when it comes to ending the war in Syria?
:00:38. > :00:38.We'll be asking a former Obama advisor
:00:39. > :00:44.if the US has any leverage left in Syria.
:00:45. > :00:47.Is the billion-pound parenting industry a waste of time?
:00:48. > :00:50.We talk to the woman who's telling parents to ditch the books
:00:51. > :00:53.and let their kids' brains do all the work.
:00:54. > :00:56.The legendary tv critic Clive James on boxed sets, reality TV -
:00:57. > :01:05.There was a wave of obituaries, of fond goodbyes, tears in eye,
:01:06. > :01:12.And there I was, alive and reading it!
:01:13. > :01:19.And our final Proms playout, Rick Astley.
:01:20. > :01:39.The UN says that the world is watching,
:01:40. > :01:41.this as hundreds of rebel fighters and thousands of civilians
:01:42. > :01:44.begin to evacuate the besieged Damascus suburb of Darayya -
:01:45. > :01:45.the longest stand-off between government-led forces
:01:46. > :01:53.and rebels in Syria's five-year war is ending.
:01:54. > :01:55.And as the US Secretary of State, John Kerry,
:01:56. > :02:00.meets his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, in Geneva today
:02:01. > :02:02.for further talks to try to bring peace,
:02:03. > :02:04.they might do well to reflect on the story of Daraya,
:02:05. > :02:08.that some of the first protests against Assad began.
:02:09. > :02:13.committed one of the war's biggest massacres to date.
:02:14. > :02:20.And after years of inaction from the international community,
:02:21. > :02:22.it is here where the government forces are now resurgent
:02:23. > :02:46.Four years of resistance against all the odds came to an end in Darayya
:02:47. > :02:54.today. Besieged, starved and bombed by the Assad regime, residents are
:02:55. > :02:57.being bussed out of this suburb and the army is moving in. Regime
:02:58. > :03:03.soldiers chanted pro-government slogans at them as they left, some
:03:04. > :03:04.in tears. Civilians heading for government-controlled areas, rebels
:03:05. > :03:12.for opposition held it live province. -- Idlib. This man worked
:03:13. > :03:18.as a media activist in the local council. He leaves tomorrow.
:03:19. > :03:24.TRANSLATION: People are feeling profoundly bitter, is days the agony
:03:25. > :03:29.of being sent from their homeland. These are the people who sacrificed
:03:30. > :03:33.their lives to stand for the city, it is a very tough situation for
:03:34. > :03:37.civilians because this is the very same regime that has been bombarding
:03:38. > :03:41.them with napalm, barrel bombs, rockets and chemical attacks. It is
:03:42. > :03:45.the very regime that has been besieging them and preventing food
:03:46. > :03:49.from reaching them. If people had another choice, they would have
:03:50. > :03:55.opted for it, but people have no choice. The story of Darayya is, in
:03:56. > :04:01.many ways, the story of the Syrian uprising. It was one of the first
:04:02. > :04:06.areas to break out in peaceful protests against the regime five
:04:07. > :04:11.years ago. Demonstrated carried roses towards government soldiers,
:04:12. > :04:14.and the activist behind these protests was arrested, tortured and
:04:15. > :04:20.killed. When the Free Syrian Army began to take control in 2012, the
:04:21. > :04:25.response was brutal. A massacre of hundreds of people, blamed on Assad
:04:26. > :04:33.loyalists, one of the worst the conflict had scene at that stage.
:04:34. > :04:38.But over the years, more was to come.
:04:39. > :04:44.After rebel forces took full control of the district, Darayya, like other
:04:45. > :04:49.opposition held areas, was the target of the regime's air force,
:04:50. > :04:53.blamed for the majority of deaths in Syria during the conflict. Darayya
:04:54. > :04:56.is just a few minutes from the centre of Damascus and the heart of
:04:57. > :04:58.the regime. It and other rebel held suburbs were besieged by government
:04:59. > :05:15.forces. Food and medicine began to run out,
:05:16. > :05:20.with residents reduced to boiling herbs. Despite pleas for help, the
:05:21. > :05:24.UN managed to deliver aid only once in four years. The failure to break
:05:25. > :05:31.the siege has angered many. Darayya was a symbol of everything that
:05:32. > :05:37.revolutionary Syrians wanted for their country. It produced a
:05:38. > :05:40.democratic local council, its self organised in a democracy. The
:05:41. > :05:46.militias defending the town were under civilian control, unlike
:05:47. > :05:52.elsewhere in Syria, they certainly were not jihadists, they were three
:05:53. > :05:58.army fighters. It is a place which preserved its values of intelligent,
:05:59. > :06:02.nonsectarian, revolutionary resistance. Today, unfortunately, it
:06:03. > :06:08.is become a symbol of the slow annihilation of these democratic
:06:09. > :06:12.hopes by the Assad regime and the collaboration of the rest of the
:06:13. > :06:17.world. The regime accuses rebels of having helped people hostage in
:06:18. > :06:23.Darayya, but others worried today's Benz will encourage Assad to
:06:24. > :06:27.continue his siege tactics elsewhere. What lies ahead for
:06:28. > :06:30.Darayya and the Syrian revolution? is our chief international
:06:31. > :06:38.correspondent, Lyse Doucet. We saw rebels fleeing the town of
:06:39. > :06:44.Darayya in that report, how much of a blow is this to the rebels? This
:06:45. > :06:47.is a huge development, it is a symbol both in terms of the
:06:48. > :06:53.symbolism but also the strategic value. For the Syrian government,
:06:54. > :06:57.Darayya is the gateway to Damascus, there was no way they were going to
:06:58. > :07:01.let Darayya fall, and that is what we have seen over the past four
:07:02. > :07:05.years, every time we went to Damascus, we could see bombs topping
:07:06. > :07:10.on Darayya. As the report said, the UN only managed once in four years
:07:11. > :07:15.to distribute aid in the town. But the opposition, as we have been
:07:16. > :07:18.hearing, it was a symbol of their resistance, and what was supposed to
:07:19. > :07:23.be an icon of what the rebels wanted to achieve a cross Syria. And now
:07:24. > :07:27.today it is a symbol of defeat. The Syrian government wants to send a
:07:28. > :07:32.message to say to those who have been meeting in Geneva that they do
:07:33. > :07:36.not need world powers to bring about peace in Syria, the Syrians will do
:07:37. > :07:41.it themselves. But of course for the Syrian government, that is on its
:07:42. > :07:45.own terms. Where you are, John Kerry, Sergei Lavrov have met today,
:07:46. > :07:50.you have been at negotiations like this before, what sense are you
:07:51. > :07:56.getting of any possible deal? John Kerry has always been described as
:07:57. > :08:00.an optimist, his aides tell us that he is going to work to the very last
:08:01. > :08:05.day of President Obama's presidency in January to try to make a
:08:06. > :08:09.difference in Syria, to try to fight against the so-called Islamic State,
:08:10. > :08:14.which tilt controls large swathes of Syrian territory, but also to try to
:08:15. > :08:18.bring about a truce. More than 12 hours ago, when he went into talks
:08:19. > :08:21.with Sergei Lavrov, some of the negotiators said they had made
:08:22. > :08:27.progress over the past several weeks in trying to narrow the differences.
:08:28. > :08:30.It will be up to the foreign ministers to close the gaps, but
:08:31. > :08:34.when they came out, they said, we made progress, we narrowed the
:08:35. > :08:37.difference. Sergei Lavrov talked about dots separating them, John
:08:38. > :08:41.Kerry said there was greater clarity on what it would achieve to take a
:08:42. > :08:46.truce, and also strengthened cooperation between Moscow and
:08:47. > :08:49.Washington. But they are not there, and Kerry said, we do not want to
:08:50. > :08:55.announce a deal unless we are sure there is a deal. The big question
:08:56. > :09:02.is, when can they achieve that? As always - Lyse Doucet, thank you very
:09:03. > :09:06.much. Earlier I spoke to a form of foreign policy adviser to the Obama
:09:07. > :09:10.administrations, Vali Nasr sits on the foreign policy advisory board to
:09:11. > :09:13.the State Department. I began by asking him how much power the US
:09:14. > :09:19.Government has when it comes to the situation in Syria today. The US is
:09:20. > :09:25.negotiating without any leveraged, and without any ability to offer
:09:26. > :09:29.anything concrete. So it is at a disadvantage. It is understood that
:09:30. > :09:35.it can play a very important role, but not without much more engagement
:09:36. > :09:39.in Syria. So what is the incentive from Sergei Lavrov to offer any
:09:40. > :09:46.compromise? So it doesn't serve Russian interests to be seen as the
:09:47. > :09:51.ones who are rejecting talks. They are always ready to talk, they
:09:52. > :09:56.always give the positive signal, they always try to encourage the
:09:57. > :09:59.process going forward. But without any US ability to cajole and
:10:00. > :10:02.persuade, it is not going to go very far. And I would also say that the
:10:03. > :10:07.Russians are every bit as interested in engaging the US, because they
:10:08. > :10:12.think it moves the US somewhat more towards the middle and towards them,
:10:13. > :10:18.and away from the opposition and its backers in the region. So for them,
:10:19. > :10:22.the diplomatic process is part of the management of the situation in
:10:23. > :10:27.Syria to their own advantage. How much is the position of John Kerry,
:10:28. > :10:31.facing talks with Sergei Lavrov, how much is it the fault of President
:10:32. > :10:36.Obama being ineffective when it comes to Syria? I think to a good
:10:37. > :10:39.extent, because Secretary Kerry is trying very hard to find a
:10:40. > :10:44.diplomatic opening, but diplomacy only works if the other side takes
:10:45. > :10:49.you seriously, that they think there is a cost to not engaging, or a cost
:10:50. > :10:53.to not doing the right thing. Right now, the only pressure that comes on
:10:54. > :10:58.Russia and on Iran is coming from extremists on the ground, which is
:10:59. > :11:02.not very good news, and they know it, that ultimately the West would
:11:03. > :11:05.be very worried about that. But there was no clear that the United
:11:06. > :11:10.States may bomb targets or may get involved or may change the shape of
:11:11. > :11:14.the conflict to their disadvantage. The US is simply trying to persuade
:11:15. > :11:20.them to do the right thing, and that doesn't really go very far. Should
:11:21. > :11:27.President Obama have pursued the idea of bombing in Syria in 2013?
:11:28. > :11:32.Yes, I do think that diplomacy in a case like Syria would work if the
:11:33. > :11:36.other side would have thought that the United States is willing and
:11:37. > :11:40.able to get involved in a way that will change the facts on the ground
:11:41. > :11:44.to their disadvantage. So they would be really incentivised to prevent
:11:45. > :11:48.the United States from getting involved. If they think that the
:11:49. > :11:51.United States is not going to get involved, there is no real downside
:11:52. > :11:55.for them to continue the course that they are at. So the US lost
:11:56. > :12:04.credibility, essentially, over the red line in Syria when it threatened
:12:05. > :12:06.that it was going to use force and then it didn't, and since then it
:12:07. > :12:10.hasn't even threatened to use force, and as a result the Russians and
:12:11. > :12:14.Iranians do not see any threat to losing their position on the ground
:12:15. > :12:18.in the war in Syria. So who could bring that threat? We are looking to
:12:19. > :12:22.the next administration now, hypothetically, Hillary Clinton is
:12:23. > :12:26.in power, a former Secretary of State, is she the person to bring
:12:27. > :12:31.the threat? Is she the person to assert United States power when it
:12:32. > :12:34.comes to negotiating over Syria? I think both the Russians and the
:12:35. > :12:39.Iranians take her very seriously, they think that she is somebody who
:12:40. > :12:43.believes in America's role in the world, its leadership role, and it
:12:44. > :12:47.is willing to use force, and definitely even her track record at
:12:48. > :12:52.the State Department on Syria, while she was in office, suggested that
:12:53. > :13:00.she was much more willing to lend American power to support the
:13:01. > :13:04.opposition, to provide no-fly space, to support forces on the ground
:13:05. > :13:09.militarily in a way that would have changed the dynamics of fighting on
:13:10. > :13:13.the ground. So I think, yes, but the Iranians and the Russians would
:13:14. > :13:19.think that a Clinton Administration is likely to get a lot tougher, and
:13:20. > :13:24.be willing to actually use hard power to force a change of opinion
:13:25. > :13:31.in Moscow and Tehran. Does the United States have to accept that
:13:32. > :13:34.Assad is going nowhere, he is firmly in place? I think it has accepted
:13:35. > :13:42.that, although it cannot say it in public, because so early on it
:13:43. > :13:46.associated itself with the need of Assad to leave power. The US has
:13:47. > :13:51.done nothing other than rhetorical exhortation is about him leaving,
:13:52. > :13:56.and the more powerful ices became, and the more American policy was
:13:57. > :14:00.focused on Isis, the more the US sort of washed its hands of any
:14:01. > :14:03.serious effort to remove Assad from power. Go by is Vali Nasr, thank you
:14:04. > :14:07.for your time. Thank you. It's not uncommon for a new parent
:14:08. > :14:10.to seek advice when it comes to raising a child, be it
:14:11. > :14:12.from relatives, friends But a new book says
:14:13. > :14:16.that books are not the answer. and allow our offspring
:14:17. > :14:19.to develop naturally and forget
:14:20. > :14:26.the traditional guidelines. People take classes,
:14:27. > :14:33.visit online forums and read books. Doctor Spock's common-sense book
:14:34. > :14:43.of baby and child care It was published in 1946
:14:44. > :14:49.and since then it has As the extended family went
:14:50. > :14:55.into decline in the 1950s, parenting guides became
:14:56. > :14:59.increasingly in demand. Raising a child became a skill
:15:00. > :15:01.you could learn, with dos and don'ts that promised
:15:02. > :15:04.to help anxious new parents raise Fashions came and went,
:15:05. > :15:13.parents bought books advising them to leave their child to cry
:15:14. > :15:16.and books recommending sharing They read about the benefits
:15:17. > :15:22.of pushing your children to succeed Alison Gopnik, a developmental
:15:23. > :15:35.psychologist at Berkeley, 30 years of scientific research
:15:36. > :15:40.into child development, she says, has revealed how
:15:41. > :15:43.remarkably sensitive Babies are naturals at learning
:15:44. > :15:49.and they learn by playing, Parenting is going the wrong
:15:50. > :15:54.way, says Gopnik. We shouldn't be using prescriptive
:15:55. > :15:58.techniques to raise our kids. Just provide a rich,
:15:59. > :16:00.nurturing environment and children's Well, Professor Alison Gopnik
:16:01. > :16:20.is here to explain all. Thank you for joining me. So, the
:16:21. > :16:25.book, it looks at the carpenter and the gardener, explain the
:16:26. > :16:29.difference? OK, the idea about being a parent that comes from these
:16:30. > :16:33.parenting books is that you can take a child and you can shape them into
:16:34. > :16:38.a particular kind of adult if you have the right kind of techniques
:16:39. > :16:42.and expertise, the way a carpenter can take a piece of wood and turn
:16:43. > :16:47.that into a chair. I think that is not the view that comes from the
:16:48. > :16:51.science, when you look at the science, the core thing in this
:16:52. > :16:55.book, a better picture is a picture of a gardener, a picture of
:16:56. > :17:00.creating, a rich, stable environment in which all sorts of Flowers can
:17:01. > :17:04.blame and also has a surprising variable unpredictable things can
:17:05. > :17:08.happen and it is not that gardening is not hard work, it is, but the
:17:09. > :17:12.picture is not that you are bringing about a particular result, you are
:17:13. > :17:17.trying to present a framework and an environment in which children can
:17:18. > :17:22.develop themselves. You mention the science, give me a brief example of
:17:23. > :17:26.the science behind this. If you look even at the very youngest children,
:17:27. > :17:31.they have incredibly powerful learning mechanisms and they learn
:17:32. > :17:35.best by observing the people around them in tremendously subtle and
:17:36. > :17:38.sophisticated ways and be going into the world and playing. Those kinds
:17:39. > :17:45.of learning, especially for young children, below the age of five, are
:17:46. > :17:48.much more powerful than any of the kinds of variants that parents
:17:49. > :17:54.self-consciously try to do based on things like the parenting books. So
:17:55. > :17:58.the children, we don't have to make children learn, we just have to let
:17:59. > :18:03.them learn. Is this book focused on children in the younger years? The
:18:04. > :18:06.formative years? A lot of the research has been on children in the
:18:07. > :18:09.first years and they know a tremendous amount of learning and
:18:10. > :18:15.development goes on in those first years but I think the general point
:18:16. > :18:18.applies also to school age children and adolescents and even
:18:19. > :18:22.undergraduates, that we have a model that somehow there is a set of
:18:23. > :18:26.self-conscious techniques we can use and we can guarantee we will get a
:18:27. > :18:31.particular outcome. And a better way of thinking about this is a
:18:32. > :18:34.children, by their very evolutionary nature, are designed to pick up the
:18:35. > :18:38.material that is in the culture around them, the values, and change
:18:39. > :18:44.them and shape them and advise them and turn them into something new.
:18:45. > :18:47.Our job is to provide a framework in which that revision and change and
:18:48. > :18:50.shaping and discovery and variability and exploration can take
:18:51. > :18:56.place, not to bring about a particular result. Part of the
:18:57. > :19:01.nature of a parent is to give a child all the tools they can
:19:02. > :19:04.possibly give to succeed in an ever increasingly competitive world. Why
:19:05. > :19:09.shouldn't parents actively teach children? It is very difficult, I
:19:10. > :19:14.imagine, to be able to step back and say, developed at your own pace? It
:19:15. > :19:18.is ironic because in the post-industrial world that we live
:19:19. > :19:22.in, the tools you really need to succeed aren't any particular set of
:19:23. > :19:27.skills or knowledge, the tools you need are the ability to be in a new
:19:28. > :19:29.situation and in a new environment and create something create
:19:30. > :19:34.something new, something that has never been before. That is what a
:19:35. > :19:38.place like Silicon Valley thrives on and it is interesting that in that
:19:39. > :19:44.context people realise that play is the best mechanism for doing that.
:19:45. > :19:48.The irony is that by trying so hard to teach children to succeed, we may
:19:49. > :19:52.not actually be giving them the tools that they need to succeed in
:19:53. > :19:59.the real change in future that they face. The thought that comes from
:20:00. > :20:03.the science is from an evolutionary perspective, the thing that makes
:20:04. > :20:06.human beings so special was our very long extended immature childhood and
:20:07. > :20:11.it is a puzzle about why our baby is dependent on us for so very long,
:20:12. > :20:15.why does it take so much energy? A whole village and not just parents
:20:16. > :20:20.but grandparents and cousins and friends to just raise a child? And
:20:21. > :20:24.the answer seems to be that that protective period of immaturity
:20:25. > :20:26.gives children a chance both as individual children and as a
:20:27. > :20:40.generation of children to come out exactly the
:20:41. > :20:42.way we want, it would be self-defeating, we will be defeating
:20:43. > :20:45.the whole point of childhood. You are suggesting to a lot of people
:20:46. > :20:50.that they go against their instincts and don't parent and that parenting
:20:51. > :20:55.is a concept we should not adopt any more? What should we be doing as
:20:56. > :21:00.parents? I think our instincts are good. I think people's instincts are
:21:01. > :21:05.to love their children, articulate the values that are important to
:21:06. > :21:09.them, can be the things that we think are important, care for them,
:21:10. > :21:13.no matter who they are, unconditional, those instincts are
:21:14. > :21:17.the right instance, they are exactly the gardener instincts that will
:21:18. > :21:20.give children a good environment and the parenting idea is not something
:21:21. > :21:25.that is instinctive, it is something that developed very late in the 20th
:21:26. > :21:28.century, it is pretty strange, this way of thinking about being a parent
:21:29. > :21:32.compare to what we have done for most of human history. It is a
:21:33. > :21:36.special thing that came with industrial schooling and a thing
:21:37. > :21:48.that came with the fact that for the first time, people were
:21:49. > :21:52.having children who had not actually experienced much raising of children
:21:53. > :21:54.before but who had done things like work and go to school and therefore
:21:55. > :21:57.thought that raising children are caring for children was a kind of
:21:58. > :21:59.variant of working and going to school. That is not our natural
:22:00. > :22:02.instinct, that is something that is quite unusual and historical, it is
:22:03. > :22:04.only just becoming dominant in the last little while. Alison Gopnik,
:22:05. > :22:07.thank you for joining us this evening.
:22:08. > :22:10.It's a black joke in showbusiness that death is a great career move.
:22:11. > :22:13.One person in a position to bear out the double-edged truth
:22:14. > :22:15.of this is Clive James, the TV critic, memoirist,
:22:16. > :22:20.He was diagnosed with leukaemia in 2010.
:22:21. > :22:24.Soon after he went through a very public estrangement from his wife
:22:25. > :22:27.after revelations about a long affair of his.
:22:28. > :22:30.In wry observation, he says he was willing to accept
:22:31. > :22:36.He spent much time binge-watching television series and used
:22:37. > :22:39.the little energy he had to read and write.
:22:40. > :22:42.Out of the crisis came some of James's most admired work.
:22:43. > :22:45.With the help of groundbreaking drugs he is still here and is taking
:22:46. > :22:48.what some might see as a morbid pleasure in what he calls
:22:49. > :22:54.Stephen Smith went to see him at his home in Cambridge,
:22:55. > :23:02.where he's just written a book about his passion for TV boxsets.
:23:03. > :23:05.If I look like a heap of sh*t or a wreck, let's just
:23:06. > :23:08.I'll write it into the show for you, I promise.
:23:09. > :23:16.The methylamine keeps flowing, no matter what.
:23:17. > :23:27.Breaking Bad, an acclaimed drama about a man who is buying himself
:23:28. > :23:30.some time through drugs, has been entertaining Clive James,
:23:31. > :23:34.a man who is buying himself some time through drugs.
:23:35. > :23:40.I must say that, straight away, I have been useful, haven't I?
:23:41. > :23:43.Because I have brought you into a new field.
:23:44. > :23:45.The appeal is you can't stop watching.
:23:46. > :23:50.It is like getting on a train and never stops.
:23:51. > :23:52.I used to be in the TV criticism business years
:23:53. > :23:56.ago and when I left it, the wind-up piece that
:23:57. > :23:59.I wrote in my last week, I predicted that American TV
:24:00. > :24:11.I made a slow start with Game of Thrones.
:24:12. > :24:13.I didn't really want to start, actually, because it's got dragons.
:24:14. > :24:20.And I saw five minutes of the first episode.
:24:21. > :24:24.I didn't even want to see them hatch!
:24:25. > :24:27.I was talked into it by my younger daughter.
:24:28. > :24:30.And I found myself, against my expectations,
:24:31. > :24:37.If you look at what the terrestrial channels here still provide,
:24:38. > :24:40.recently we have had things like The Night Manager,
:24:41. > :24:45.War and Peace, Peaky Blinders, even dear old Downton Abbey.
:24:46. > :24:51.No, no, the ones you name, you just happened to chance upon
:24:52. > :24:55.the shows that I think are nowhere beside the American ones.
:24:56. > :24:58.What was the one that was set in Egypt?
:24:59. > :25:08.I thought it was pretty close to being nonsense, that one.
:25:09. > :25:10.And if I were still in the TV criticism business,
:25:11. > :25:16.Are you to blame for reality television, Clive?
:25:17. > :25:19.People sometimes say so and I am very flattered but
:25:20. > :25:23.The truth is, I put the reality shows that were being made elsewhere
:25:24. > :25:35.Some of them extremely improbable, like the Japanese game show,
:25:36. > :25:43.If you are worried that there is such a thing as a television
:25:44. > :25:45.producer who wants to roast people in a plastic box,
:25:46. > :25:48.bomb them with pepper, dress them as bats and hang them
:25:49. > :25:50.upside down with their pants full of cockroaches,
:25:51. > :25:53.ask yourself what you would rather he was doing instead?
:25:54. > :25:55.What happened next wasn't funny at all.
:25:56. > :25:59.They all became believable and we started to do them.
:26:00. > :26:04.I may have been a participant in the biggest deterioration
:26:05. > :26:13.What an ironic end thought for such a high mind?
:26:14. > :26:15.Some of the reality TV shows don't work.
:26:16. > :26:25.One of the channels not long ago tried one about ski jumping.
:26:26. > :26:32.Yeah, but that was the problem, wasn't it?
:26:33. > :26:34.Because there are not that many actual celebrities.
:26:35. > :26:36.You can't really send Helen Mirren over a cliff!
:26:37. > :26:41.Now, you have described this time as your posthumous years.
:26:42. > :27:03.Because I was really on the way out, then.
:27:04. > :27:15.I picked the exact moment in history where preventative medicine
:27:16. > :27:18.for the thing that I have got, which is leukaemia,
:27:19. > :27:27.It has got a wonderful name, it's called ibrutinib.
:27:28. > :27:31.And as I have said in my new book, it sounds like a piece of film
:27:32. > :27:33.dialogue, doesn't it?
:27:34. > :27:39.You can see Russell Crowe playing it!
:27:40. > :27:44.It has got an overdeveloped neck, hasn't it?
:27:45. > :27:53.The granddaughter of the Girl from Ipanema is the princess of that
:27:54. > :27:59.The former prime-time host has had time to read his obituaries and,
:28:00. > :28:04.with a book of poems, to write a few of them, too.
:28:05. > :28:07.I was rather embarrassed because I did almost die in 2010
:28:08. > :28:10.and 2011 and I think it was the second time,
:28:11. > :28:25.Please don't take this the wrong way.
:28:26. > :28:29.The only sensible thing to do would be...
:28:30. > :28:36.You have become the Julian Assange of leukaemia, in a way, haven't you?
:28:37. > :28:41.Everyone is waiting for the next development.
:28:42. > :28:43.Everyone is waiting for Julian Assange to starve
:28:44. > :28:51.I'm not so sure he was very wise to go in there.
:28:52. > :28:59.Well, I suppose if one might be harsh and personal,
:29:00. > :29:02.one might say you should have faced the music a bit earlier
:29:03. > :29:07.You could try that but you're not going to get far.
:29:08. > :29:20.You wrote that lovely poem about a maple tree in your garden.
:29:21. > :29:23.All about, essentially, how it would outlive you.
:29:24. > :29:32.I may have to write another poem about that but at the moment I am
:29:33. > :29:37.A replacement tree, much smaller, but I like to think sturdier,
:29:38. > :29:49.All week we've been giving you a taster of the BBC Proms
:29:50. > :29:51.and tonight we've got a very special guest.
:29:52. > :29:54.He performs at Proms in the Park in Hyde Park on Saturday 10th
:29:55. > :29:56.September in the finale of the festival,
:29:57. > :30:00.But here with us, singing us out with his current single
:30:01. > :30:02.from his new album "50", is Rick Astley.
:30:03. > :30:09.# Sometimes I just don't feel like waking up.
:30:10. > :30:19.# Sometimes I feel like I am breaking up.