:00:00. > :00:15.So, is everyone clear about what Brexit means then?
:00:16. > :00:19.Simply it means leaving the European Union.
:00:20. > :00:23.Tonight we thought we'd better leave the politicians alone to work out
:00:24. > :00:27.We've got the Brexit voters instead - what were they all voting for?
:00:28. > :00:30.And do they like how things are going so far?
:00:31. > :00:33.And if you haven't all had enough of experts, we've got our own.
:00:34. > :00:35.What more do we know about the political,
:00:36. > :00:41.diplomatic and economic direction that Brexit will take?
:00:42. > :00:43.The chairman of the Home Affairs select committee fights
:00:44. > :00:47.But is his private life any of our business?
:00:48. > :00:50.We'll hear from those who think MPs should be held to a higher standard
:00:51. > :01:03.And did the revolution of the 60s and 70s lay the foundation
:01:04. > :01:09.I think that the idea was with those guys back then,
:01:10. > :01:12.that they wanted to connect everybody in the world,
:01:13. > :01:27.they shouted in the Commons, as our Brexit Secretary David Davis
:01:28. > :01:29.failed to offer any firmer details on the way ahead.
:01:30. > :01:32.The Prime Minister, Theresa May, had teed this up to be a moment,
:01:33. > :01:35.promising a statement that would - after weeks of uncertainty -
:01:36. > :01:37.set out the Government's strategy for leaving the EU.
:01:38. > :01:40.David Davis promised his determination to get the best deal
:01:41. > :01:43.for Britain and a unique agreement, not an off the shelf solution.
:01:44. > :01:46.This may be so bespoke, so artisan, it may be years in the making.
:01:47. > :01:53.So tonight, we leave the politicians and return to the voters.
:01:54. > :01:56.What did Britain's 17 million actually expect to get from Brexit?
:01:57. > :02:00.And we'll hear from our own experts - if we're still allowed
:02:01. > :02:03.to call them that - who take us through what needs
:02:04. > :02:04.to happen diplomatically, economically and politically.
:02:05. > :02:21.The Prime Minister has told the world that Brexit is on the way, but
:02:22. > :02:25.die-hard supporters are determined to ensure that the votes of
:02:26. > :02:30.17-and-a-half million Britons will be safeguarded. The Government's
:02:31. > :02:34.chief Brexiteer appreciates the need for reassurance. There will be no
:02:35. > :02:38.attempt to stay in the EU by the back door, no attempt to delay,
:02:39. > :02:45.frustrate or thwart the will of the British people. No attempt to
:02:46. > :02:49.engineer a second referendum. Even after a 20 year absence from the
:02:50. > :02:55.Government front bench the man referred to as the knuckle-duster
:02:56. > :02:59.knows that he faces a daunting task. There was no triumphalism in
:03:00. > :03:03.contrast to one of his fellow Brexit campaigners who used the positive
:03:04. > :03:07.news to launch an attack on their referendum points. Does that not
:03:08. > :03:12.confirm that the 17 million people who voted to leaf the European Union
:03:13. > :03:21.in this country know a darn sight more about economics than the
:03:22. > :03:27.members of the IMF, the OCED and all these other experts who have egg on
:03:28. > :03:32.their face. He makes his point brilliantly as
:03:33. > :03:38.always, and I agree with the main thrust of it but let us not get too
:03:39. > :03:41.optimistic before we close the deal. Perhaps this was prompted by
:03:42. > :03:45.warnings Theresa May heard at the G20 summit about the Brexit
:03:46. > :03:49.negotiations but the Prime Minister's intervention in in China
:03:50. > :03:53.was her adoption of the central commitment of the vote Leave
:03:54. > :03:57.campaign to take back control of the UK's borders while dropping their
:03:58. > :04:00.main idea for delivering that. What the British people voted for on the
:04:01. > :04:05.23rd June was to bring some control into the movement of people from the
:04:06. > :04:10.European Union into the UK. A points based system does not give you that
:04:11. > :04:14.Here, then, to talk us through the implications of what's
:04:15. > :04:17.being said and what isn't being said, Nick Watt, politics,
:04:18. > :04:18.Helen Thomas, business, Mark Urban, diplomacy.
:04:19. > :04:23.Let's break this down into four segments -
:04:24. > :04:25.migration, spending commitments, then economy, then
:04:26. > :04:34.We will start with that talk of taking control, we have heard that
:04:35. > :04:38.phrase of Britain's borderers where are we? Slight unease about Theresa
:04:39. > :04:44.May binning that Australian points system that was one of the main
:04:45. > :04:47.ideas of the vote Leave campaign. Nigel Farage said he was very
:04:48. > :04:52.worried about her language, but it is interesting some of the Tory
:04:53. > :04:56.Brexiteers were more relaxed. I spoke to Iain Duncan Smith, and he
:04:57. > :05:00.said he agrees the probable with the system is that the Government
:05:01. > :05:03.doesn't have control. But, he was slightly more suspicious of an idea
:05:04. > :05:06.that is doing the round in Downing Street, which is perhaps you could
:05:07. > :05:10.revive the original attention, intentions of the treaty of Rome
:05:11. > :05:14.which is to restore the free movement of workers, rather than
:05:15. > :05:16.people, and Iain Duncan Smith was telling me I think you need a work
:05:17. > :05:20.permit system, this is what he said. Work permits as a control
:05:21. > :05:22.process, aided and abetted if necessary by the idea
:05:23. > :05:24.of a points-based sifting system. That allows the UK to decide do
:05:25. > :05:27.companies and do areas, do we need those skills here,
:05:28. > :05:30.because we don't have them? If that is the case,
:05:31. > :05:32.what we are able to say to companies, the UK,
:05:33. > :05:34.you can recruit from overseas, to a certain degree,
:05:35. > :05:37.and we will let you have work But in other companies we might
:05:38. > :05:40.say, in other areas, to a certain degree,
:05:41. > :05:43.and we will let you have work But in other companies we might
:05:44. > :05:46.say, in other areas, low skilled perhaps,
:05:47. > :05:49.and whatever, no, there are plenty Well, that is what controls
:05:50. > :05:54.over your work permits and borders are about,
:05:55. > :05:56.deciding who you wanted to have in, The important thing is we,
:05:57. > :06:06.the UK Government, controls that The other thing we heard so much
:06:07. > :06:08.about during that campaign was the spending commitments and the pledges
:06:09. > :06:13.of where the money would go, any news on that? Well, I think we can
:06:14. > :06:18.officially pronounce the death of one of vote leave's main pledges on
:06:19. > :06:22.spending which is that the UK would have an extra ?350 million a week to
:06:23. > :06:26.spend because we would no longer have to pay the EU. David Davis was
:06:27. > :06:31.asked about this specific issue and he said simply, my job is to give
:06:32. > :06:35.Parliament control of the money, no mention of any figures but another
:06:36. > :06:38.pledge which is to match the spending that goes direct payments
:06:39. > :06:43.to farmers, David Davis said that would happen, that would be covered,
:06:44. > :06:45.but only until 2020, thereafter, that depends on the success of the
:06:46. > :06:52.economy. Let us move on the more numbers with
:06:53. > :06:57.Helen, good economic data, does this alter or shift how you are reading
:06:58. > :07:01.the economic data that has come from Brexit Brexit? The short-term, the
:07:02. > :07:08.figures are still good. Today we had this bounce back in services
:07:09. > :07:11.activity from July to ought, again rexxxx August, reversing the trend
:07:12. > :07:15.we saw after the vote. The economy isn't exactly booming but the fears
:07:16. > :07:19.of an immediate meltdown have lifted. But in the longer term
:07:20. > :07:25.business, just doesn't know where it stands. While we haven't seen any
:07:26. > :07:28.knee jerk reaction, there are problems, businesses make decisions
:07:29. > :07:32.years ahead of time, so Nissan will be decided next year where it is
:07:33. > :07:36.going to build a car that hits the streets in 2020. They will need
:07:37. > :07:40.answers about the UK's relationship with Europe more quickly than the
:07:41. > :07:44.Government is moving, the other problem is, as the negotiations
:07:45. > :07:49.start in earnest, it becomes harder to manage some of the worries so we
:07:50. > :07:52.have heard that passporting free access to Europe may not be
:07:53. > :07:56.realistic for the city. What senior bankers have told me is they
:07:57. > :08:01.immediately hear that and start thinking about the worst case
:08:02. > :08:05.scenario, so the Government needs to somehow manage these industries's
:08:06. > :08:08.expectations so they don't hundred down and send investment elsewhere.
:08:09. > :08:13.Part of that talk is the international trade relation, how
:08:14. > :08:18.did the G20 leave us, when all the photos are done and dusted. I think
:08:19. > :08:23.the key take away from G20 in a way is that the wider world is
:08:24. > :08:26.interested in Brexit, but only so much, out of nine densely typed
:08:27. > :08:32.pages there are just two sentences on the UK leaving the EU in there,
:08:33. > :08:37.and this focus, if it begins to wander, because every country has
:08:38. > :08:42.its own issues, and it is an issue, because if it looks possible from
:08:43. > :08:46.the positions we are hearing from David day visit we don't want the
:08:47. > :08:49.so-called Norway option, the full single market membership, we want
:08:50. > :08:54.access, those types of consideration we were hearing about there, about
:08:55. > :08:58.banks, passporting, you are then relying on good will and nations
:08:59. > :09:03.saying yes, you can come and trade here, it is much more complicated
:09:04. > :09:07.and questionable than the old car equation they want to sell us car,
:09:08. > :09:11.you know, where you can find acceptable terms of trade quickly,
:09:12. > :09:17.service is much more tricky, and again, at a conference last week in
:09:18. > :09:20.Italy, the forum, where we were, we spoke to people there and we heard
:09:21. > :09:26.passporting that kind of thing is far from certain from UK banks and
:09:27. > :09:31.they just want Britain to get on quickly, and spell out what we are
:09:32. > :09:33.seeking, this was the view of a former head of the European Central
:09:34. > :09:37.After all, the UK is creating the problem,
:09:38. > :09:40.it is shooting in its own feet, obviously, and has to, you know,
:09:41. > :09:43.be fully aware of the fact it is necessary to get out
:09:44. > :09:47.of the uncertain episode in which we are.
:09:48. > :09:49.And of course, it is also the overall superior interest
:09:50. > :09:52.of Europe as a whole and of the world, to limit
:09:53. > :10:06.the uncertainties that have been created by this move.
:10:07. > :10:11.So that word uncertainty probably not going away any time soon. Thank
:10:12. > :10:15.There was no manifesto ahead of the EU referendum.
:10:16. > :10:17.No party pledging policies or promises.
:10:18. > :10:19.Instead, there was a collection of voices from across the political
:10:20. > :10:22.divide, offering various scenarios of what Britain could be like,
:10:23. > :10:25.So what in the end did people vote for?
:10:26. > :10:30.And how do they think it's going so far?
:10:31. > :10:34.We talk to Michael Keeble, a retired restaurant manager
:10:35. > :10:37.from London, Danie Chance, a dental nurse from Nottingham,
:10:38. > :10:40.Mick Phipps, a barber from Essex, Elaine Sullivan, who runs
:10:41. > :10:42.a consultancy business near Reading, Martin Bontfort, a retired police
:10:43. > :10:44.inspector from Boston, Angela Garvin, a PA
:10:45. > :10:59.A warm welcome to you all. Now we have gone through the formalities we
:11:00. > :11:05.will get to the chase, I am going to ask you, in a sense for a show of
:11:06. > :11:09.hands, which of you would prioritise as the reason for voting, this
:11:10. > :11:14.question of sovereignty, of making our own law, being in charge. All of
:11:15. > :11:19.you, OK. So if I then said which of you would put as a priority if you
:11:20. > :11:22.could only choose one thing number, in terms of immigration, controlling
:11:23. > :11:25.the flow of people into this country, would any of your change
:11:26. > :11:32.your mind and say that was more important? Think it is going to be
:11:33. > :11:36.the numbers are going to be detailed depending on the platform we create
:11:37. > :11:40.for bids, I don't believe that we need to reduce immigration, I
:11:41. > :11:44.believe we need to create a great platform for businesses to come
:11:45. > :11:48.here, create job, we might double immigration some years, pull it back
:11:49. > :11:54.other year, I think you need to act on it more in the smaller sense and
:11:55. > :11:57.the entrepreneurial sense like a country acting on its own standards
:11:58. > :12:01.can do. We might find ourself in a good position that way. I think, I
:12:02. > :12:05.think it is not necessarily we only have to take that number of people,
:12:06. > :12:09.that number of people, we have to know how many we are taking, and
:12:10. > :12:14.where we are taking them. If the jobs are there. You don't want to
:12:15. > :12:19.create... We have a good infrastructure... A maximum wage as
:12:20. > :12:24.opposed to the minimum wage. So from what you have heard today and you
:12:25. > :12:29.heard from Nick watt that the points base system is not going to be the
:12:30. > :12:34.system Theresa May chooses, does that alter anything for you Michael?
:12:35. > :12:38.We need a points system that is completely in the way that we shape
:12:39. > :12:41.it. So when they dismiss a points system for Australia, of course,
:12:42. > :12:50.that is not, they don't have the same requirements as we do. But, if
:12:51. > :12:58.our points system could choose and pick and allow for ourselves,
:12:59. > :13:02.then... And adapt as well. Adapt. It is probably more about the economic
:13:03. > :13:07.side of it, so it is not necessarily having ex number of people that have
:13:08. > :13:10.met that bar to come in, it is what have we got to offer those people as
:13:11. > :13:14.they are coming in and how are they going to contribute when they
:13:15. > :13:19.arrive? OK. Let me pick up with Martin, I know you were worried that
:13:20. > :13:22.our politicians, you didn't have the confidence our politicians would
:13:23. > :13:27.sort this out, even if it was a yes to leave vote, did you, do you feel
:13:28. > :13:31.that things are going well now, better than you expected, worse? I
:13:32. > :13:36.don't know. I mean, the only thing I think is that the vote that we were
:13:37. > :13:40.given, that everybody was given was black-and-white, yes or no, in or
:13:41. > :13:47.out and now we are getting the shades of grey coming in and the
:13:48. > :13:50.grey areas, and I just don't think that people were aware of that
:13:51. > :13:55.sufficiently. Do any of you feel that you were duped at all? I mean,
:13:56. > :14:00.I know you have done your reading, you came into this well-informed, do
:14:01. > :14:07.any of you feel you were duped about what were told at the time? I think
:14:08. > :14:11.we will feel that, if... The information and the the information
:14:12. > :14:15.that you provided with, I think, you know, I think everyone could say
:14:16. > :14:20.that we were duped into believing certain things. It is good to say
:14:21. > :14:24.why? A lot of you have had a reaction from other people, to being
:14:25. > :14:31.Brexit voters, and Danie, what happened to you when the vote was to
:14:32. > :14:40.leave? Well, because I am in the Labour Party, and I was in mandated
:14:41. > :14:43.to be Remain, I was vocal about the fact I wanted the leave the EU, and
:14:44. > :14:50.immediately after the result came in, there was a lot of backlash that
:14:51. > :14:55.I received from not just people in the Labour Party, but people in
:14:56. > :15:00.every day life, really. I was branded you know, as racist, and
:15:01. > :15:05.things like that, and to me, immigration isn't a concern of mine,
:15:06. > :15:08.mine is more to do with the sovereignty and the democracy, and
:15:09. > :15:10.being able to govern ourselves rather than you know, having to
:15:11. > :15:19.listen to someone in the EU. Did anyone else have that experience
:15:20. > :15:24.of being seen in a different way? Sovereignty of our Parliament. I
:15:25. > :15:27.mean the response that people had? I think initially it was a band wagon
:15:28. > :15:31.that people got on. To continue to still be in that place now, those
:15:32. > :15:33.people are not being optimistic. They're not taking their
:15:34. > :15:36.opportunities in a changing environment. They need to change.
:15:37. > :15:41.They need to move on. Do you feel that the rest of the world has
:15:42. > :15:46.caught up? I mean, Angela, you were undecided right the way through. So,
:15:47. > :15:50.did you feel very passionate when you went to vote and was it very
:15:51. > :15:54.clear in your head which way you were going to or could you have gone
:15:55. > :15:58.either way? Towards the end I was pretty positive that I was going to
:15:59. > :16:03.vote out. I was undecided to begin with. But the more I did the
:16:04. > :16:11.research, the more I looked into things, the more I felt that we
:16:12. > :16:14.could cope and deal with our own, yeah have a positive feeling. It's
:16:15. > :16:17.really interesting because you're talking about the sense of
:16:18. > :16:21.confidence and belief, but essentially, the big questions are
:16:22. > :16:25.still ahead of us all. One of them is this compromise. Somewhere along
:16:26. > :16:29.the lines, we've all got to choose or the politicians have to choose -
:16:30. > :16:33.do we want to accept free movement, which could be more people coming in
:16:34. > :16:38.that we don't have control over, but it might give us that access still
:16:39. > :16:43.to remain in the single EU market, which one do we think is more
:16:44. > :16:46.important? As for as I'm concerned, I don't want to pay that price. The
:16:47. > :16:52.price of free movement. The price of free movement. Who agrees? If it
:16:53. > :16:57.means free movement... I don't think it will be. Being confident and
:16:58. > :17:02.optimistic about Great Britain, I think I'd like to see a news report
:17:03. > :17:06.on the other side of all these other countries, the 160 not part of the
:17:07. > :17:10.EU going Great Britain come and do business with us. You still think we
:17:11. > :17:15.can have it all? Yes. A fair amount of it. One of the things you know we
:17:16. > :17:19.won't have all, you were concerned about spending on hospitals and
:17:20. > :17:23.schools, that 100 million, that they promised, sounds like it's not going
:17:24. > :17:29.to the NHS. No. Are you surprised? It didn't surprise me at all. None
:17:30. > :17:35.of you believed that at the time? No. The slogans were a bit poor.
:17:36. > :17:39.Negative slogans were poor. It washed over me. It was spin. Do you
:17:40. > :17:45.think the politicians are on top of this? I think they're going to learn
:17:46. > :17:48.a massive lesson. I think no-one really knows what to do at the
:17:49. > :17:55.minute. That's why everything is taking so long. It's going to take
:17:56. > :17:59.two years to come out of the EU. To be honest, I think that's right,
:18:00. > :18:07.because we need to get it right. We need to do it well. If it takes -
:18:08. > :18:13.That's just a figure in itself. It was unexpected.
:18:14. > :18:18.If we're not coming out till 2019? I expect to come out before 2019. I
:18:19. > :18:22.think article 60 should be invoked in the first three months of next
:18:23. > :18:26.year so there is impetus behind their arguments and that there is a
:18:27. > :18:31.framework on which they can expect to build. There has to be a time
:18:32. > :18:34.frame. We're waiting for the back to school time table, aren't we? Yes.
:18:35. > :18:36.Thank you all very much. Echoes of Theresa Mays famous Brexit
:18:37. > :18:39.line seemed to work for questions When asked if he should step down
:18:40. > :18:44.from his position as head of the Home Affairs Select Committee,
:18:45. > :18:46.she replied "What Keith Any decisions he wishes to make
:18:47. > :18:50.are for him". Keith Vaz, filmed undercover
:18:51. > :18:52.with male prostitutes and splashed over the papers this weekend,
:18:53. > :18:55.has threatened to sue the Tory MP, So is this about wrongdoing,
:18:56. > :19:02.trust or something as nebulous as public opinion and the rights
:19:03. > :19:22.and wrongs of extra-marital sex? The kind of constituency function
:19:23. > :19:28.that makes many politicians' toes curl, a tee dance for example, has
:19:29. > :19:31.never been a problem for Keith Vaz. How are things with you? That's a
:19:32. > :19:38.very pretty dress. Is that yours? Yes. Here he was woulding voters
:19:39. > :19:46.some 30 years ago, just before he was returned to Parliament for
:19:47. > :19:50.Leicester east. The Labour Party candidate is elected as the member
:19:51. > :19:55.for Leicester east. The first Asian MP in the Commons since colonial
:19:56. > :20:02.times. We fought on the issues of jobs, housing, education and health.
:20:03. > :20:06.So I'm absolutely delighted. Keith, a bachelor, lives with his mother in
:20:07. > :20:13.Leicester. She's a local councillor in his constituency. I was late. I
:20:14. > :20:16.got back at 2am. Were you awake? I certainly have had representations
:20:17. > :20:20.from members of the Asian community from every city in Britain and
:20:21. > :20:24.indeed, from many places outside Britain and I'm conscious of the
:20:25. > :20:29.fact that my work has to also include their aspirations and their
:20:30. > :20:33.desires. It was such a significant moment. For us Asians, of course,
:20:34. > :20:37.that you could, you weren't destined to be the small, quiet shop keeper
:20:38. > :20:42.for the whole of your life, but also, in terms of the black struggle
:20:43. > :20:51.and power, and the story of this nation. In all the brickbats slung
:20:52. > :20:56.at Keith Vaz he's never been accused of being a shrinking violet. When a
:20:57. > :21:00.Bollywood star drew fans to a signing in Leicester, the local MP
:21:01. > :21:02.was on hand. All I can say to you, as a former member of Parliament, is
:21:03. > :21:10.please don't stand in Leicester east. After Tony Blair entered
:21:11. > :21:16.Downing Street, Vaz, by now married, joined the Government and became
:21:17. > :21:22.minister for Europe in 1999. Soon he was dogged by controversy. He was
:21:23. > :21:27.accused of using his influence to help the wealthy Indian Hiduja
:21:28. > :21:33.brothers gain citizenship. A Parliamentary Standards watchdog
:21:34. > :21:38.accused him of seekericy. Though he was cleared of benefitting
:21:39. > :21:44.personally. In 2002, Vaz was suspended from the Commons for a
:21:45. > :21:48.month over vals allegations against a former senior policewoman. He was
:21:49. > :21:52.found to have given misleading information to the House Standards
:21:53. > :22:02.and Privileges Committee. I couldn't bear it that so many of his inner
:22:03. > :22:06.circle were, in my view, unwholesome, rich Asians and that
:22:07. > :22:11.sometimes he didn't know, seem to know the boundaries of public
:22:12. > :22:18.office, but all that, I say, changed in the last decade. I have a final
:22:19. > :22:23.question for you... It's not quite a variety show. You're providing a
:22:24. > :22:29.little bit of variety though. Making it more like Dad's Army. Keith Vaz
:22:30. > :22:34.re-invented himself as the suave and low quashs chair of the powerful
:22:35. > :22:39.Home Affairs Select Committee. His colleagues have mixed feelings about
:22:40. > :22:43.his tenure. Too much desire for publicity, it could be said for the
:22:44. > :22:50.committee, but also for himself. I think to some extent, it undermind,
:22:51. > :22:55.and I emphasise, to some extent, the credibility of the committee. After
:22:56. > :22:59.allegations in a Sunday paper, involving Mr Vaz and male escorts,
:23:00. > :23:03.it's widely expected he'll confirm tomorrow that he's stepping down as
:23:04. > :23:09.chair of the committee, which has been reviewing prostitution laws. Mr
:23:10. > :23:14.Vaz says he's referring the matter to his lawyers, calling the role of
:23:15. > :23:18.the newspaper "deeply troubling". Tonight the former trailblazer is a
:23:19. > :23:22.figure of ridicule, though he's been around long enough, he's already
:23:23. > :23:24.read his political obituaries more than once before.
:23:25. > :23:26.Let's talk about the ethics of the revelations and the questions
:23:27. > :23:29.of trust with our two Ians - Dale, writer and LBC radio
:23:30. > :23:33.presenter, and Dunt, editor of politics.co.uk.
:23:34. > :23:42.Very nice of you to come in. I'm going to give the first question to
:23:43. > :23:47.whichever of you can tell me what Keith Vaz has actually done wrong.
:23:48. > :23:50.He's done something wrong for his wife and his family. It is their
:23:51. > :23:55.business, of course. That's a pretty significant failing. So this is
:23:56. > :23:59.about private morality then? Insofar as marriage comes into it, it's
:24:00. > :24:03.private. For us, it is absolutely none of our business and it doesn't
:24:04. > :24:06.affect his work either as MP or as chair of the Home Affairs Select
:24:07. > :24:10.Committee. If he were just a backbench MP, Ian would be right.
:24:11. > :24:14.But he is chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee. I think
:24:15. > :24:17.higher standards apply there. Having said, that as an electorate we
:24:18. > :24:21.always say we want politicians to reflect the society we live in. 90%
:24:22. > :24:24.of the people watching this programme will have done something
:24:25. > :24:32.in their lives, sexually or not, that they wouldn't like to see -
:24:33. > :24:36.90%? I bet that's right. In terms of your phone-ins you would say that...
:24:37. > :24:40.I did a phone-in on this this evening, I would say 80% of the
:24:41. > :24:43.callers were saying, this is all really unfair. Just let him get on
:24:44. > :24:48.with it. He shouldn't have to step down. I take a different view in
:24:49. > :24:55.that it's all very well to say, well, he's involved in these enquire
:24:56. > :24:59.into prostitution and legalisation or criminalisation of drugs and he
:25:00. > :25:03.hasn't done anything that's hypocritical. Well he has. The point
:25:04. > :25:06.of the one on prostitution was to look at whether men should be
:25:07. > :25:09.criminalised for paying for prostitutes. That's not hypocrisy.
:25:10. > :25:14.That means he's a consumer of the things that he's investigating. It
:25:15. > :25:20.came out with a different conclusion that that shouldn't happen. That's
:25:21. > :25:24.still not hypocrisy. I'm not saying he swayed that committee because of
:25:25. > :25:27.his own private interests. It matters what the general public
:25:28. > :25:30.thinks. So it's his position on prostitution that you think is the
:25:31. > :25:34.key thing? No, it's not just that. If you look at the drugs issue. I
:25:35. > :25:40.mean, you say he's done nothing wrong. We don't know whether the
:25:41. > :25:44.allegation that he tried to procure drugs for the escorts is true or
:25:45. > :25:48.not. No doubt that will come out. He suggested that he would pay for
:25:49. > :25:52.drugs that he was getting himself. He wasn't found in possession or
:25:53. > :25:57.found getting their drugs. He hasn't done anything wrong there. If I
:25:58. > :26:03.offered to buy you drugs, I would have a police officer waiting for me
:26:04. > :26:07.to arrest me. He hasn't really been found trying to procure the drugs
:26:08. > :26:10.and it is legal to use a sex worker in this country, there are shadows
:26:11. > :26:18.there about whether they're controlled or not. He has not broken
:26:19. > :26:22.any laws here. We don't know that. Let him finish. Anyone who looks at
:26:23. > :26:27.a subject cannot be a consumer as well, we are about to enter into an
:26:28. > :26:29.extremely twisted political culture. For instance, his previous
:26:30. > :26:34.investigations were on immigration. One could start asking him, well do
:26:35. > :26:37.you have any cousins, siblings who suffered through immigration. He is
:26:38. > :26:42.as affected by that as in this case as well. What if it was an
:26:43. > :26:46.investigation into some kind of tax avoidance scheme, when he had - The
:26:47. > :26:49.difference there is there's a financial interest. You have to
:26:50. > :26:53.declare in Parliament where you have financial interests. Only financial
:26:54. > :26:59.has a conflict of interest? Typically that's where corruption is
:27:00. > :27:02.most pervasive. We don't have for declarations for personal morality.
:27:03. > :27:06.It's a dangerous game to start asking people to tell us about their
:27:07. > :27:10.private life. This would be very different ten years ago. Something
:27:11. > :27:15.has changed where 90% of your callers... I'm not looking at this
:27:16. > :27:19.from personal morality. I think prostitution should be legalised. If
:27:20. > :27:25.someone wants to pay someone for sex and it's consensual, no problem at
:27:26. > :27:30.all. However, Brooks Newmark was forced to resign because he sent a
:27:31. > :27:34.text, a picture of himself that he shouldn't have done. Are we saying
:27:35. > :27:38.that is more serious... He was forced to resign? He did resign. If
:27:39. > :27:47.you say I'm too embarrassed... Jeremy Corbyn says this is a private
:27:48. > :27:53.matter. Why has he suspended Simon Danchu KFOR what he did. In terms of
:27:54. > :27:57.the question you raise at the beginning which was, put them, do
:27:58. > :28:03.you put our Select Committee heads in a higher etch lob of society,
:28:04. > :28:07.that's not -- echelon of society, that's not OK. If we have this
:28:08. > :28:10.dislocation - You can't have it both ways. You either say all of our
:28:11. > :28:14.politicians should be whiter than white at all times, which is clearly
:28:15. > :28:18.not going to happen. Or you say, well there are some positions in
:28:19. > :28:23.society, some, not all, but some in politics, where if you are caught
:28:24. > :28:28.doing this sort of thing, I'm afraid it is incumbent of you to fall on
:28:29. > :28:35.your sword. You take Churchill. He was a functioning alcoholic. If we
:28:36. > :28:39.want to hold up this standard, there's no-one higher than the Prime
:28:40. > :28:45.Minister. Is it about likability or popularity? Partly. It's about
:28:46. > :28:50.curtain twitching moral puritanism. The only variable in these stories,
:28:51. > :28:55.no-one cares if someone who eats sugar is on a committee to regulate
:28:56. > :29:00.sugar. But when it comes to sex and drugs, because we suspect people are
:29:01. > :29:05.having more fun like we are. They probably are. Certainly in my case!
:29:06. > :29:07.We have a whole Green Room. The party starts here. Thank you for
:29:08. > :29:08.coming in. The right-wing nationalist party
:29:09. > :29:11.Alternative for Germany have pushed Angela Merkel's ruling conservatives
:29:12. > :29:13.into third place in The party, founded three years ago,
:29:14. > :29:17.was an anti-Euro party, but it has turned its focus
:29:18. > :29:20.to immigration and Islam. It now has delegates in more than
:29:21. > :29:24.half of Germany's state parliaments. Last night's elections come
:29:25. > :29:26.as a stark warning that Merkel's immigration policy is not uniformly
:29:27. > :29:39.popular with the German people. It was an invitation that put
:29:40. > :29:42.the world's migrants on the move and encouraged and confounded
:29:43. > :29:44.Europe. Angela Merkel's offer to receive
:29:45. > :29:46.a million refuges was as bold She has been lauded for a humane
:29:47. > :29:52.response to a world in turmoil and villified for creating
:29:53. > :29:57.a situation seemingly without end, as thousands upon thousands
:29:58. > :30:00.left their home and headed to the new Jerusalem -
:30:01. > :30:04.this time, Berlin. But after a summer of terror,
:30:05. > :30:10.Germany is a country now looking at itself in new ways and wondering
:30:11. > :30:16.if that largesse was badly aimed. The elections this weekend -
:30:17. > :30:20.though small in scale - suggest the start of a backlash
:30:21. > :30:23.against Merkel's plans Just look at her personal approval
:30:24. > :30:29.rating. From a high of 75% as recently
:30:30. > :30:36.as last April, to 54% and 49% in the months following the decision
:30:37. > :30:40.to take in hundreds And after briefly recovering
:30:41. > :30:46.following the Brexit vote, Merkel's rating plunged
:30:47. > :30:49.to a five-year low in the wake But today, Merkel was resolute
:30:50. > :30:54.and stood by her refugee policy. TRANSLATION: Of course,
:30:55. > :30:57.the result is related I am party chair, the Chancellor,
:30:58. > :31:02.and in the eyes of voters, I nevertheless believe
:31:03. > :31:10.the decision on refugees, And now we must
:31:11. > :31:16.continue to work on it. Even so, any further ratings dips
:31:17. > :31:19.for Merkel and her party could put next year's national elections -
:31:20. > :31:22.and the way Merkel chooses to fight Earlier, I spoke to Beatrix von
:31:23. > :31:26.Storch, MEP and deputy leader of the AFD and asked her how
:31:27. > :31:38.she saw the result. If it comes to migration
:31:39. > :31:40.politics, it's both. It is the complete numbers
:31:41. > :31:45.which already came. This is the first problem,
:31:46. > :31:50.we are not able to integrate so many people within our labour market
:31:51. > :31:52.and within our society. It is not possible,
:31:53. > :31:57.just by the number. Because it is not possible
:31:58. > :31:59.to integrate those people, because they are not making part
:32:00. > :32:04.of our cultural background, so we see that we can't
:32:05. > :32:07.run our social welfare state We can't keep our standard,
:32:08. > :32:13.if we try to integrate into this So it is not about
:32:14. > :32:17.Islam, specifically? Well, Islam, of course,
:32:18. > :32:20.plays a role, because the majority of people coming to us
:32:21. > :32:23.are from Islam backgrounds, Muslims, so this makes it even more difficult
:32:24. > :32:25.to integrate the people. This is what we experienced in
:32:26. > :32:29.the past, it is not the first time. We have got already lots of migrants
:32:30. > :32:32.who came, lots of years ago, they integrated well,
:32:33. > :32:41.but others not, and we can see that those coming from Islam
:32:42. > :32:43.background are much more difficult to integrate into our society
:32:44. > :32:51.than other cultures. You would say, then,
:32:52. > :32:54.your party has a specific problem The German society has
:32:55. > :33:06.a specific problem. Our claim saying Islam does not
:33:07. > :33:08.belong to Germany is supported by something like 30-
:33:09. > :33:10.35% of German people, so this is not something
:33:11. > :33:13.which is only in our mind, people are voting for us because we
:33:14. > :33:18.have that line very clear. You, your party said some time ago
:33:19. > :33:22.that German police should be allowed to shoot at refugees
:33:23. > :33:24.illegally entering Germany. No, we made very clear we don't
:33:25. > :33:32.want to shoot at anybody, and this is why specifically
:33:33. > :33:35.we ask our Chancellor to stop co-operating with Mr Eregan
:33:36. > :33:42.from Turkey to protect our borders, but what we can see in Europe
:33:43. > :33:46.at the moment is that there is one What do you mean, you don't
:33:47. > :33:51.want to shoot at anyone? You did say that and now
:33:52. > :33:53.you don't believe it? We don't want to shoot at anybody,
:33:54. > :33:58.and that way we can see is one can protect its borders
:33:59. > :34:00.without using a gun. The only one who is using a gun,
:34:01. > :34:06.who is killing people, This is the one Merkel has handed
:34:07. > :34:10.over our border control, and our point is very clear,
:34:11. > :34:13.we want to protect our own borders Why did you say that,
:34:14. > :34:17.was that a mistake? We made it clear we don't
:34:18. > :34:20.want to shoot anybody. What we said is it needs
:34:21. > :34:24.the political will to We can see that all the states
:34:25. > :34:28.who have closed down Do you think that policy will spell
:34:29. > :34:35.the end for Angela Merkel? You have done well this time round,
:34:36. > :34:39.but you are not in first place yet, and there are many places
:34:40. > :34:43.you don't have seats. What we say is this is the beginning
:34:44. > :34:47.of the end of Angela Merkel. We have just been, we just came
:34:48. > :34:50.in second in the federal state, where Angela Merkel comes from,
:34:51. > :34:52.so it is her home place We don't have the majority
:34:53. > :35:03.of the votes yet, and what we see of course is that the politics
:35:04. > :35:06.is shifting at least into our direction, that even CDU
:35:07. > :35:09.and CSU are making more and more points we have in our programme,
:35:10. > :35:12.because they see that people want to have the politic taken
:35:13. > :35:19.in another direction. Basically the opposite direction
:35:20. > :35:22.of what the Chancellor is taking. So we have an impact
:35:23. > :35:24.on the politics already, you are right, we have not yet
:35:25. > :35:27.gained the majority of the votes, but if the Chancellor sticks
:35:28. > :35:29.to her line, that will happen Did the counter cultural
:35:30. > :35:44.revolution of the 60s give us the technological revolution
:35:45. > :35:46.we have now? An exhibition at the V
:35:47. > :35:48.is exploring the significance of late 1960s, expressed
:35:49. > :35:51.through some of the greatest music, Oh my God, look at the picture over
:35:52. > :36:12.there, the earth coming up. The late 60s were an era of huge
:36:13. > :36:22.change - everything from fashion, to cultural and political attitudes,
:36:23. > :36:30.to civil rights were in flux. And how we viewed ourselves
:36:31. > :36:34.was being redefined. With the moon missions,
:36:35. > :36:37.humans for the first time saw the earth,
:36:38. > :36:39.our planet, from space. An image taken by the
:36:40. > :36:41.astronaut William Anders It has been called the most
:36:42. > :36:50.important image of the 20th century. The whole earth appears
:36:51. > :36:53.in its fragile vulnerability and it seems to turn people's thoughts back
:36:54. > :37:13.to what is going on in the earth. At London's V museum revolution is
:37:14. > :37:18.in the air. Newsnight has been given a preview of the latest exhibition
:37:19. > :37:23.encompassing five revolutionary years to 1970. It was a time when
:37:24. > :37:30.the space race was on when students were demonstrating on campus and on
:37:31. > :37:33.the streets when music fish mar toes were gathering for festival, when
:37:34. > :37:38.The Beatles were taken their ideas into the mass media. You say you
:37:39. > :37:42.want a revolution is an attempt to show how the world was trans formed
:37:43. > :37:45.in a few years. You can't underestimate how important the
:37:46. > :37:49.revolution in the head was, as people changed their mind-set from
:37:50. > :37:53.what had been the case in the early 60s, where people did look up to the
:37:54. > :37:56.establishment, they expected the Government to do a good job and be
:37:57. > :38:01.right and by the end of the era you feel that people are doing it for
:38:02. > :38:07.themselves and that sets us up for the next 50 years. I was excited. I
:38:08. > :38:12.felt like I was part of it, and I thought that the whole world was
:38:13. > :38:21.changing, the world was changing, but it didn't quite go exactly the
:38:22. > :38:30.way everybody thought it would. Lloyd was involved in the Whole
:38:31. > :38:36.Earth catalogue, a manual for the counter revolution. They pushed Nasa
:38:37. > :38:44.to release an image of the whole earth, handing out badges after what
:38:45. > :38:49.he described as a creative LSD trip. Everything from the best lamps to
:38:50. > :38:57.information on the first completes, and it influenced Steve Jobs.
:38:58. > :39:01.When I was young, there was an amazing publication called the whole
:39:02. > :39:07.earth catalogue, it was like Google in paper back form 35 years beforele
:39:08. > :39:11.came along, it was idealistic, overflowing with neat tools and
:39:12. > :39:15.great notions. When I saw it on YouTube I thought that is pretty
:39:16. > :39:19.great, that what we were doing back then was picked up on by this guy
:39:20. > :39:25.and you know, and see what he has done. The whole earth catalogue was
:39:26. > :39:28.part of it. It was part of what shaped the ideology that, and I
:39:29. > :39:31.think that, I think that the idea was with those guys back then they
:39:32. > :39:36.wanted to connect everybody in the world.
:39:37. > :39:41.In a sense that has happened. Back then both the hippies living in
:39:42. > :39:45.communities and the pioneers of modern completing shared a belief
:39:46. > :39:49.that a better world would come from pooling human knowledge. Those early
:39:50. > :39:57.ideals of sharing it freely are clearly not exactly as we live now,
:39:58. > :40:01.so for all that we have amazing communications, and imagine setting
:40:02. > :40:06.up Woodstock in 1969 without any of that, it is mind-boggling, we can do
:40:07. > :40:08.that now but at the same time we have surveillance culture, big
:40:09. > :40:14.business taking over this freedom of knowledge, we have the dark web, we
:40:15. > :40:18.have our time taken up living on tiny machines, perhaps that takes
:40:19. > :40:22.our mind away from bigger issues. So it is not, certainly not as they
:40:23. > :40:28.would have envy Sans. What Richard has done for the underground is
:40:29. > :40:31.promote its image. Back then Richard Neville co-founder of the Oz
:40:32. > :40:36.magazine whose death was announced today had high hopes for what
:40:37. > :40:40.technology would do. He even devised a game in poster form, a history of
:40:41. > :40:44.the counterculture this anticipation of the free time for playing games
:40:45. > :40:48.that would frult the digital revolution. It didn't happen of
:40:49. > :40:52.course, and whether the power of modern day Silicon Valley is a
:40:53. > :40:57.sell-out of the 60s values or the ultimate expression of them, really
:40:58. > :41:05.depends on your perspective. We were you kept together? We were
:41:06. > :41:10.kept in the same cell. The trial of Richard and his foal low editors
:41:11. > :41:13.symbolises the end of an era for the exhibition, the finale to a time
:41:14. > :41:19.when the young were imagining new ways to live.
:41:20. > :41:25.They all came together, because the common enemy was society, as it was
:41:26. > :41:29.at that time. Very very straight and constrained, and it still is,
:41:30. > :41:37.actually, so as for the lasting effect I am not too sure.
:41:38. > :41:42.For the V the legacy comes in the form of the landmark legal changes
:41:43. > :41:46.to civil and gay rights, equal pay and the right to abortion which all
:41:47. > :41:47.emerges from this defining time. -- emerged.
:41:48. > :41:50.That's it for tonight, on what would have been
:41:51. > :41:54.Since he died in 1991, there's been no-one who had his weird talent
:41:55. > :41:58.for controlling a gigantic stadium of people like so many
:41:59. > :42:01.We leave you back in 1985, Wembley Stadium and Rock Music's
:42:02. > :42:19.# Buddy you're a boy, make a big noise
:42:20. > :42:22.# Playin' in the street, gonna be a big man some day
:42:23. > :42:24.# You got mud on your face, big disgrace
:42:25. > :42:26.# Kickin' your can all over the place
:42:27. > :43:03.Good evening, there is a humid sticky feel to the weather across
:43:04. > :43:04.much of the country overnight. And the same can be said