:00:08. > :00:11.In this party, you no longer have to whisper its name, it's called
:00:12. > :00:17.On stage in Liverpool, politics on the left
:00:18. > :00:23.After years of running from it, Labour is now embracing it.
:00:24. > :00:28.One of the boldest political experiments of the age.
:00:29. > :00:30.The Shadow Chancellor is here to tell us what the S
:00:31. > :00:38.And is this a party that can work together, or two
:00:39. > :00:46.I hope that he can put together a Shadow Cabinet of all the talents,
:00:47. > :00:48.but that does require Jeremy and his newly re-endorsed
:00:49. > :00:50.mandate to reach out to the Parliamentary Labour
:00:51. > :00:56.Party and say, I do want to work together.
:00:57. > :00:59.And Team Sky defends Sir Bradley Wiggins' use of steroids
:01:00. > :01:04.We can still trust Sky, we can trust in their achievements?
:01:05. > :01:06.100%, you can trust in Sky, absolutely, 100%.
:01:07. > :01:12.That's the very essence of why we created this team in the first
:01:13. > :01:30.We're here, as the Labour Party is here, for its annual conference.
:01:31. > :01:32.A changing political order is underway, entrenching.
:01:33. > :01:35.For a taste of the different style, here is the picture
:01:36. > :01:38.of Jeremy Corbyn, who abolished the post of shadow mental
:01:39. > :01:40.health minister, here offering support to the campaign
:01:41. > :01:44.Campaigning for himself to do something is a novel approach
:01:45. > :01:49.The other strange moment was around the speech
:01:50. > :01:52.of shadow defence secretary Clive Lewis.
:01:53. > :01:55.Here is the footage of him, shot by ITN, just before
:01:56. > :01:57.giving his speech, apparently being told by email
:01:58. > :02:03.The autocue was being altered on his behalf.
:02:04. > :02:04.His compromising tone on perhaps keeping Trident,
:02:05. > :02:09.toned down to leave open the option of dumping it.
:02:10. > :02:12.Some of us who live by autocue know that you must never ever
:02:13. > :02:15.But the excuse was the one that producers use here,
:02:16. > :02:21.they always say the boss wanted the script change made.
:02:22. > :02:24.Well, fun and games aside, Labour is, I suppose, two parties
:02:25. > :02:27.Last year, Labour met just after Jeremy Corbyn
:02:28. > :02:31.Shell shock was the predominant mood among the old guard.
:02:32. > :02:34.This year the party is again meeting just after Jeremy Corbyn has been
:02:35. > :02:39.The mood of the old guard is weary, reluctant, resignation.
:02:40. > :02:42.However, there is a new guard as well.
:02:43. > :02:54.And that, to be blunt, is where the action is.
:02:55. > :03:02.Here is where it's happening, a real buzz, affirmative ideas and
:03:03. > :03:07.discussion on the alternative left. However this isn't the Labour Party.
:03:08. > :03:10.It is an event organised by Momentum, nearby. Reflecting its
:03:11. > :03:18.ambition, it is called the World Transformed. What's wrong with
:03:19. > :03:23.politics at the moment is that it is about whether you are left wing or
:03:24. > :03:27.right-wing, which faction, but that's not what people care about,
:03:28. > :03:35.they care about ideas, issues that affect them. Not only is this not
:03:36. > :03:40.the hard left, it is very soft and compassionate, but the idea that it
:03:41. > :03:46.is left rather than just progressive I think is highly misleading.
:03:47. > :03:50.Momentum only has 18,000 members, far fewer than the Liberal
:03:51. > :03:58.Democrats. Think about their impact on politics. By organisation and
:03:59. > :04:03.dedication that centrists struggled to manage from their homes, they
:04:04. > :04:06.have changed the opposition party beyond recognition and they are
:04:07. > :04:13.entrenching that change. A certain clarity of purpose fuelling the
:04:14. > :04:17.organisation's drive. But then this is the visual Labour conference. It
:04:18. > :04:21.has its moments but it is perhaps a little flat. The stands in the
:04:22. > :04:26.exhibition area rather obviously well spaced out. It seems that the
:04:27. > :04:31.businesses who often want to lobby and be seen at these events have
:04:32. > :04:34.largely stayed away and many of the party malcontents are also absent.
:04:35. > :04:41.Is there a clarity and unity of purpose here? I think we are kidding
:04:42. > :04:45.anyone if we think that the wounds are going to be healed overnight but
:04:46. > :04:50.there is a strong sense that we now have been reminded of the job that
:04:51. > :04:58.we need to get on and do and what people want to see is a strong
:04:59. > :05:01.opposition. I think there's a real desire to do things that are going
:05:02. > :05:08.to make things happen and change in this country. An opposition to
:05:09. > :05:13.what's going on. It would be wrong to portray this official conference
:05:14. > :05:18.as in any way lacklustre. They can fill this enormous hall when they
:05:19. > :05:21.need to, but the official conference has one disadvantage compared to the
:05:22. > :05:25.leftist enthusiasts on the other side of town. Over there, they are
:05:26. > :05:29.getting stuck into the issues, the things that matter to them. Over
:05:30. > :05:34.here, given the different factions in the party and the trouble they
:05:35. > :05:37.have been through, it is hard to get the conversation to move beyond who
:05:38. > :05:42.the leader is and what the rules of engagement are. This may or may not
:05:43. > :05:48.be the year that they managed to progress beyond that. On one measure
:05:49. > :05:52.of Labour ship -- leadership, Labour is the biggest party in Europe.
:05:53. > :06:04.Recovery from its traumas will not be instant. Today, John McDonnell
:06:05. > :06:09.took to the stage, fleshing out his plans and he joins me now. So you
:06:10. > :06:14.said that it is a government in waiting, policies on the shelf, you
:06:15. > :06:19.must get down to the detailed implementation for those policies.
:06:20. > :06:26.Can we start with tax? It is 37% of national income. Roughly where would
:06:27. > :06:29.you to see that end up after five years of Labour government? One of
:06:30. > :06:35.the reviews we are undertaking a review of tax, it is the first of
:06:36. > :06:40.all the requirements of tax that we have but also the range of taxation
:06:41. > :06:44.we want. That's the first stage that is taking place now. We have done a
:06:45. > :06:48.review that we commissioned last year with HMRC looking at tax
:06:49. > :06:56.evasion and avoidance, a lot of work on that. We reviewed HMRC as to how
:06:57. > :07:01.it should be managed and organised. It is one of the pieces of work we
:07:02. > :07:09.are doing. That doesn't sound like a government in waiting. I'm not
:07:10. > :07:15.asking you to give me to the nearest 0.5%, but to the nearest 5%? Nearer
:07:16. > :07:21.the election, you will know more. There is a sense of urgency on this
:07:22. > :07:24.and that is why it... You can't tell me now, you've been Shadow
:07:25. > :07:27.Chancellor for a year, you can't tell me within 5% of national income
:07:28. > :07:33.where you think the tax burden should be? Roughly it should remain
:07:34. > :07:39.where it is. Roughly the same as it is? Let me finish. We don't want to
:07:40. > :07:44.pre-empt the reviews we are doing. What we have said so far is that
:07:45. > :07:48.first of all, we are not talking about increasing income tax on
:07:49. > :07:51.middle and low earners, we want to ensure that the corporations start
:07:52. > :07:56.paying their way, we want to reverse some of the benefits that have been
:07:57. > :08:00.given to the rich and we want to tackle tax evasion and avoidance. We
:08:01. > :08:08.want to invest in the economy and we can grow the tax base. You have not
:08:09. > :08:12.told me that you do not see the tax burden changing very much from where
:08:13. > :08:17.it is. We will look at the tax base and we will come to conclusions
:08:18. > :08:20.before the general election. But you must have some idea, you've been in
:08:21. > :08:24.politics for many years, Shadow Chancellor for a year. Do you want
:08:25. > :08:30.to see us like Sweden and France and the United States? I want to insure
:08:31. > :08:34.that our taxation is fair. I want to make sure that it falls on those
:08:35. > :08:39.best able to pay and that corporations pay their way. We're
:08:40. > :08:44.not talking about your Matic increases in overall taxation but we
:08:45. > :08:48.want to ensure that the work we do, which I promised in the Labour Party
:08:49. > :08:53.conference last year and this year, that every instrument we use will be
:08:54. > :08:58.tested vigorously. You raised the idea of tax in your speech today,
:08:59. > :09:03.you cannot be taxing salaries and wages, we need to tax more on
:09:04. > :09:10.wealth. I'm not going to expect you to tell me the details of your
:09:11. > :09:16.wealth tax plan. We lost the review today. Will it be on housing, a
:09:17. > :09:21.Mansion Tax? That raised 1 billion. I did not think that was going to be
:09:22. > :09:24.very successful. In the review, we will go out and listen to people's
:09:25. > :09:29.ideas and come back fairly quickly on that about the proposals. So you
:09:30. > :09:35.have said you are going to move to a wealth tax and you, at no point --
:09:36. > :09:42.at this bite, have no idea how you are going to do that? -- at this
:09:43. > :09:46.point. We are looking at wealth and we will do it in a way that engages
:09:47. > :09:50.with the wider community and we will come back with our proposals but the
:09:51. > :09:53.point of the exercise, launched today, is to ensure that whatever
:09:54. > :09:59.measure we use is rigorously tested. I thought you were a government in
:10:00. > :10:03.waiting. The whole point of today's exercise was to say that we need to
:10:04. > :10:07.be ready for a general election, we need policies on the shelf and
:10:08. > :10:11.implementation plans ready. A number of areas like this, that is what we
:10:12. > :10:16.have lost. I'm not expecting you to talk about the detail but I thought
:10:17. > :10:23.we might get the parameters. Another area, immigration. If Labour comes
:10:24. > :10:29.to power, would policies be adopted that would have the objective of
:10:30. > :10:32.trying to get the overall level of net migration down? Migration is
:10:33. > :10:36.dependent on what the economy needs and you can only determine that as
:10:37. > :10:42.the economy develops. Take the Brexit issue, we want to ensure that
:10:43. > :10:50.we have access to the single market. That will be associated with free
:10:51. > :10:54.movement of Labour but that has consequences, the undercutting of
:10:55. > :11:00.wages and pressure on public services, so we will address those
:11:01. > :11:03.issues. Is the answer to the question is, getting immigration
:11:04. > :11:10.down, no, it will not be your objective? It is a simple question.
:11:11. > :11:15.The answer is straightforward. No, it wasn't. It will be based on what
:11:16. > :11:20.the economy needs. Do you expect that to be lower? We will see how
:11:21. > :11:23.the economy develops, it is unpredictable. We want to grow the
:11:24. > :11:27.economy and at different stages there may be opportunities where
:11:28. > :11:31.immigration is important to ensure that the economy grows. Many people
:11:32. > :11:35.are worried about immigration for a different reason to the one you
:11:36. > :11:38.emphasise, you talk about they don't like wages being undercut, being
:11:39. > :11:42.pushed down by the arrival of competing workers. Many people are
:11:43. > :11:47.not worried about that, they are worried about things going on in
:11:48. > :11:50.society, change that they find difficult to digest, they see the
:11:51. > :11:57.community and language changing. Is that a legitimate objection to
:11:58. > :12:01.immigration? It is not an objection to immigration, people are fearful
:12:02. > :12:08.of change sometimes and our job in government and at every level is
:12:09. > :12:12.basically to assist people to overcome those fears and address the
:12:13. > :12:17.issue of change. That has happened for generations. It sounds like you
:12:18. > :12:20.won't let that be taken into account, it is just an economic
:12:21. > :12:25.question. It is also about pressure on public services. Some of the
:12:26. > :12:28.concerns we have heard on the doorstep, especially during the
:12:29. > :12:31.Brexit campaign, was about housing and the health service and we can
:12:32. > :12:35.deal with that by investing in those public services. A third one where
:12:36. > :12:44.I'm afraid the policy is as clear as mud to me, Trident. Now, is it your
:12:45. > :12:49.belief that when Labour goes into the next election, its policy will
:12:50. > :12:53.be to renew Trident? The existing party policy is to renew Trident.
:12:54. > :12:55.We've had a debate in the House of Commons which was a free vote
:12:56. > :13:01.because we believe this was a conscience issue and as a result,
:13:02. > :13:07.the party came to a consideration and the attitude amongst our members
:13:08. > :13:11.is the same. We will get the right to MPs and our members who support
:13:12. > :13:15.Trident to vote accordingly but at the same time we will enable others
:13:16. > :13:20.to campaign against. I don't understand, let's suppose that we
:13:21. > :13:27.have an election next year or the year after, which is not wild
:13:28. > :13:35.fantasy, let's suppose we have an election. If I vote Labour, and by
:13:36. > :13:38.voting for Trident or don't know? In the period until now and the general
:13:39. > :13:42.election, we will fall our manifesto. There will be people like
:13:43. > :13:47.me who are going to be arguing that we should have Trident and others
:13:48. > :13:51.will argue to keep it. At the moment the majority position is to keep it
:13:52. > :13:53.but at the same time, when we go into Parliament, this is a
:13:54. > :13:58.conscience issue and there will be a free vote. Clive Lewis, the Defence
:13:59. > :14:05.Secretary, has said that it is time the party stopped picking at the
:14:06. > :14:08.scab of Trident and he said that he won't be coming back to conference
:14:09. > :14:12.between now and the next election to try and undo the policy that you
:14:13. > :14:18.have an Trident as things stand. Clive Lewis, the Defence Secretary,
:14:19. > :14:21.saying he isn't coming back to look at the policy again. Is your opinion
:14:22. > :14:27.that it is open to be discussed again? It is always open within the
:14:28. > :14:33.Democratic process of the Labour Party for the members to raise an
:14:34. > :14:39.issue, that is called democracy. So is Clive Lewis just speaking for
:14:40. > :14:43.himself? What is the point of...? He says that the matter has been
:14:44. > :14:47.decided but it is always open for the party to raise these issues and
:14:48. > :14:53.I'm sure that will happen on a range of views. So the Defence Secretary
:14:54. > :15:14.is confused, the Shadow Defence Secretary, confused about what the
:15:15. > :15:22.policy is going to be an Trident? He is stating what the position is at
:15:23. > :15:26.the moment. He has the right to review these policies and to change
:15:27. > :15:29.these policies. Anybody in the party can campaign on these issues. Your
:15:30. > :15:34.foreign affairs spokesman says there is an ongoing review. Is that your
:15:35. > :15:41.understanding? Has been an ongoing review for some time. His view is he
:15:42. > :15:46.cannot see it coming back however it is open to others in that to say
:15:47. > :15:55.they wanted discussed again. This is a government in waiting. You're not
:15:56. > :16:06.a government in waiting now? We need to become a government in waiting.
:16:07. > :16:10.That means developing these policies. The Trident one makes a
:16:11. > :16:16.real point because it does not sound like you know what the policy is
:16:17. > :16:22.what it's going to be. There are different views within this party.
:16:23. > :16:26.Is it conceivable you will have a policy on Trident which the leader
:16:27. > :16:32.of your party will not publicly support? Jeremy's position is
:16:33. > :16:37.straightforward, he does not support the renewal of Trident. But if there
:16:38. > :16:44.is a view then that will be party policy. And when we go into that
:16:45. > :16:50.election should we believe the policy or the belief of the leader?
:16:51. > :16:52.The reality is, whatever happens about Trident policy and development
:16:53. > :16:57.there will be a free vote in parliament because it is a
:16:58. > :17:03.conscience issue. We will not know the outcome of that vote? I think
:17:04. > :17:08.that will happen among a number of parties. It is so significant in the
:17:09. > :17:20.minds of the people it has become a conscience issue. We are going to
:17:21. > :17:24.keep you there and talk about party matters. Clive Lewis said you will
:17:25. > :17:30.stick by the Nato target. That is policy. Labour Government have
:17:31. > :17:35.consistently spent above that number. We're going to talk little
:17:36. > :17:39.bit more. We cannot not talk about party unity because if there is none
:17:40. > :17:44.of the latter there will not be an opportunity to implement the former.
:17:45. > :18:04.Our political editor gave his weekend up to keep tabs.
:18:05. > :18:11.The revolution may have some way to run but this was beyond their
:18:12. > :18:22.imagination a few years ago. Today was the time for generosity, as John
:18:23. > :18:26.McDonnell called on them to think about how they could change the
:18:27. > :18:32.world. If Labour came together they could create a radically fear of
:18:33. > :18:35.society. The world has changed, and the things Jeremy Corbyn is talking
:18:36. > :18:41.about are the issues people are finding relevant and in their lives,
:18:42. > :18:43.finding appropriate housing when rent is high and house ownership is
:18:44. > :18:47.going down and house-building is at the lowest point in peacetime
:18:48. > :18:55.Britain. We need to address the issues. There is a change in the
:18:56. > :18:59.atmosphere as both sides peer out of the trenches. Jeremy Corbyn is
:19:00. > :19:05.embarking on a note reach programme and his critics admit he's here to
:19:06. > :19:09.stay. -- and our reach. There is still mutual suspicion and most of
:19:10. > :19:14.the plotters say the need reassurance before they return to
:19:15. > :19:21.the fore. I hope he can put together a Shadow Cabinet of all the talents.
:19:22. > :19:28.But that does require Jeremy and his newly reimbursed mandate to reach
:19:29. > :19:33.out to the PLP and say, I want to work together. That is why Shadow
:19:34. > :19:42.Cabinet elections are a significant indicator. One old hand says it is
:19:43. > :19:45.unreasonable for those who turned their back on Jeremy Corbyn to
:19:46. > :19:52.demand elections to the Shadow Cabinet. The argument about whether
:19:53. > :19:56.we should have that, I was elected in that process, but the PLP said,
:19:57. > :20:01.get rid of them. Now they're saying they wanted. We've said a lot of
:20:02. > :20:07.things, some abusive comments have been made on both sides, whether it
:20:08. > :20:13.is some in the PLP or some in Momentum. Wipe the slate clean. Over
:20:14. > :20:17.at the political and cultural festival organised by Jeremy
:20:18. > :20:21.Corbyn's Pretoria guard in the Momentum movement, one supporter
:20:22. > :20:25.said the plotters should fall into line and back their leader. I think
:20:26. > :20:32.he will be popular once he stops being knifed in the back by the
:20:33. > :20:35.right-wing. If you are a football manager and half the team leave the
:20:36. > :20:41.pitch before the whistle is blown you're not going to score many
:20:42. > :20:47.goals. But the former frontbenchers are not giving up and are working as
:20:48. > :20:54.a group, as they say they need clarity on the contentious issue of
:20:55. > :20:57.the selection of MPs. I could see the group going back but it would
:20:58. > :21:00.only be worthwhile if there were signs from the leadership that they
:21:01. > :21:06.genuinely wanted to be a government of all the talents. Also, making it
:21:07. > :21:10.clear that the selection is not where time should be spent. It
:21:11. > :21:15.should be spent on fighting the Tories. Ken Loach says MPs should
:21:16. > :21:21.learn to come to terms with democracy. They are on the ballot
:21:22. > :21:29.paper because they are chosen by the Labour Party constituency. If they
:21:30. > :21:34.got a majority, they got that as the Labour Party. Have you got job
:21:35. > :21:40.security for five years? Being an MP is not a job for life. Many of the
:21:41. > :21:44.plotters are contrite and admit it was a mistake of historic
:21:45. > :21:52.proportions. But when it comes to control of their party, the battle
:21:53. > :21:58.is far from over. Nick is with me now. You've been out and about
:21:59. > :22:02.today. How has this marriage guidance business gone? There was a
:22:03. > :22:06.big moment today. You were just discussing on that issue from
:22:07. > :22:11.Labour, nuclear disarmament. This conference may be remembered for a
:22:12. > :22:15.stand-off on personnel. Charlie Faulkner says if Jeremy Corbyn wants
:22:16. > :22:19.to bring back the frontbenchers he'd need to give ground on the
:22:20. > :22:22.elections. I understand Jeremy Corbyn is prepared to send out a
:22:23. > :22:26.pretty tough message and say he would be willing to move before
:22:27. > :22:32.there is an agreement on Shadow Cabinet elections. No reshuffle
:22:33. > :22:36.until after this conference concludes but evidently, Jeremy
:22:37. > :22:40.Corbyn is saying that if he wants to appoint a Shadow Cabinet he could
:22:41. > :22:47.appoint a very respectable and credible Shadow Cabinet tomorrow and
:22:48. > :22:52.as per the wider front bench... There are 65 vacancies to fill and
:22:53. > :22:55.evidently what he is saying is we could have an even more efficient
:22:56. > :23:02.front bench if we did not have as many. You mentioned in your piece
:23:03. > :23:12.they are organised, tell me about the organisation of the rebels, the
:23:13. > :23:17.opposition. There is one laudable. One frontbencher said there are some
:23:18. > :23:21.loan rules but most of them are swimming in a shawl. Their efforts
:23:22. > :23:26.are being co-ordinated by the whips and the leadership of the PLP. What
:23:27. > :23:33.I've learned is when that group here of a lone wolf, they see a name in
:23:34. > :23:40.the newspapers, that person is tapped on the shoulder and given a
:23:41. > :23:44.message, watch out because if you go in your going to undermine Tom
:23:45. > :23:51.Watson's efforts to get Shadow Cabinet elections. Why is there a
:23:52. > :23:54.fuss? The Shadow Cabinet has three members on the NEC and they are
:23:55. > :24:00.watching the balance of that very carefully. John McDonnell is still
:24:01. > :24:14.with me. Let's talk about some of these party matters. Does it bother
:24:15. > :24:18.you that they are acting as a union? A shoal of fish tapping wolves on
:24:19. > :24:21.the shoulder? It is a bit of a mixed message. There have always been
:24:22. > :24:28.different complexions. I'm not aware of this analogy. The whole tenure of
:24:29. > :24:33.this conference is about uniting and if you talk to the membership and
:24:34. > :24:38.large amounts of the PLP, they want the party to unite, to develop the
:24:39. > :24:45.policies that we want for a government in waiting. It would be
:24:46. > :24:50.tempting to appoint a Shadow Cabinet of Corbynistas rebels who want to
:24:51. > :24:53.come back. This sort of language about rebels, a number of people
:24:54. > :24:58.have resigned, some of them want to come back. That's great. I would
:24:59. > :25:02.welcome them all back. You see you'd welcome them all back. Some of them
:25:03. > :25:10.have said really nasty things about the leader. Is it literally wiping
:25:11. > :25:18.the slate clean or are there some for whom that slate is too scarred?
:25:19. > :25:24.Yes, yes... What we've been saying is what is said on tour remains
:25:25. > :25:30.onto! Leadership election took place, Jeremy Corbyn and increased
:25:31. > :25:34.mandate, you put them behind. One person said he could not tolerate
:25:35. > :25:39.his hypocrisy any longer. You're talking to someone who has also not
:25:40. > :25:44.been very careful with his language. You said he was part of the
:25:45. > :25:50.establishment, throwing everything, you regret that... In a campaign,
:25:51. > :25:56.harsh words get spoken but when you come to the end of that, Democratic
:25:57. > :26:00.decisions are made and even despite those harsh words, I was in that
:26:01. > :26:07.green room when the announcement was made and I was extremely friendly
:26:08. > :26:12.and comradely. Hilary Benn is a big beast of the party. It would be
:26:13. > :26:16.great if you could get him. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn would like that?
:26:17. > :26:21.Yell Mac I'm sure. I've worked with Hillary over the years, he was a
:26:22. > :26:24.local ward councillor in my constituency. He is incredibly
:26:25. > :26:31.talented and could play a vital role. You would obviously facilitate
:26:32. > :26:37.unity if you made a compromise. I'm making cup of tea is with everyone.
:26:38. > :26:42.That is not comprise, it is charm. One of them would be to say you
:26:43. > :26:48.could have Shadow Cabinet elections. It has not been ruled out. How
:26:49. > :26:53.likely do you think it is? You could click your fingers and do it. This
:26:54. > :26:57.is the problem we've got. Any move made by Jeremy could bring some
:26:58. > :27:01.on-site and push others away. What we've got to do is build a consensus
:27:02. > :27:07.so we don't push people back into the corners again. That takes a
:27:08. > :27:12.little bit of time and quite a bit of compromising. Jeremy is into
:27:13. > :27:20.that. Who will be pushed away by compromise? Some within the party
:27:21. > :27:23.are seeing if there are Shadow Cabinet elections, we want a role
:27:24. > :27:27.within that, and that is the membership. But that is just one
:27:28. > :27:31.issue, there are a whole range of issues about democratising the
:27:32. > :27:41.party, involving members, how you elect the NEC. The other issue, the
:27:42. > :27:47.PLP feel very strongly about it, mandatory reselection. At the moment
:27:48. > :27:54.they can be booted out if the party does not like them. We've ruled out.
:27:55. > :27:58.On the boundary commission, we've got the Chief Whip leading on that.
:27:59. > :28:04.We oppose it in the court and Parliament. If it goes ahead, the
:28:05. > :28:08.existing rules will apply. That means if an MP has a certain
:28:09. > :28:15.percentage in a constituency, they will have the right. Even if the
:28:16. > :28:25.membership say they want that. You plan to oppose it? Is our view is
:28:26. > :28:33.not appropriate, we've got to overcome this problem hopefully by
:28:34. > :28:41.defeating the boundary commission. We're trying to make sure the
:28:42. > :28:45.existing rules apply. John McDonnell is the best in the Shadow Cabinet
:28:46. > :28:49.but how many of the others can you name?
:28:50. > :28:52.With some of the familiar old names not in the shadow cabinet,
:28:53. > :28:55.it's taking time for everyone to get to know the new.
:28:56. > :28:57.We sent Lewis Goodall out in the streets of Liverpool,
:28:58. > :29:09.to see how well Labour's senior figures are cutting through.
:29:10. > :29:18.This gentleman here? The Labour leader. His name? It has gone out of
:29:19. > :29:25.my head. Do you know any members of the Shadow Cabinet? I'm going to
:29:26. > :29:33.look like the typical stupid person. This person here? John McDonnell,
:29:34. > :29:43.Shadow Chancellor. Pretty good. This lady? That is Diane Abbott. Do you
:29:44. > :29:50.know him? No. And her? No. This is bad. You know her? Giving a big
:29:51. > :30:00.speech today, do you know who that is? Who is that? Any idea? No. John
:30:01. > :30:05.McDonnell, the Shadow Chancellor. Is he changing anything? I haven't had
:30:06. > :30:17.much luck in Liverpool but I'm hoping here will be more successful.
:30:18. > :30:25.The Shadow Justice Secretary, what do you think of him? Not my cup of
:30:26. > :30:33.tea. We can find out this stuff, so what is the purpose of you trying to
:30:34. > :30:38.catch us out? Trying to demonstrate... Showing we are in it
:30:39. > :30:41.-- showing we are ignorant but I don't think this is a very success
:30:42. > :30:48.will argument. I'm not criticising this gentleman. He is basically
:30:49. > :30:53.saying, you don't know who these people are, wouldn't it be more
:30:54. > :30:57.sensible to let the MPs decide? You have done better than many of the
:30:58. > :30:59.Labour Party members? Even the members? You should sign up, they
:31:00. > :31:09.are just down there. Politics can be about vision,
:31:10. > :31:11.having a clear idea Weighing up different views,
:31:12. > :31:20.working out the best compromise. You judge whether Mr Corbyn has
:31:21. > :31:23.the vision, we are going to discuss Two people not in the Corbyn
:31:24. > :31:26.wing are with me. He was in the shadow
:31:27. > :31:32.cabinet under Ed Miliband, she was in the shadow cabinet under
:31:33. > :31:45.Jeremy Corbyn until she resigned. That was back in June. I don't know
:31:46. > :31:50.if you heard everything John Gunnell was saying there. I wanted to know
:31:51. > :31:55.how reassuring it was that Macdonald Donnell. He said that there would be
:31:56. > :32:02.no mandatory reselection, is that correct? That is a positive thing to
:32:03. > :32:06.hear and I think it is a good thing because what we need after a
:32:07. > :32:09.bruising summer, there needs to be a reaching out and working together
:32:10. > :32:13.and addressing some of the concerns that have been raised by the
:32:14. > :32:16.Parliamentary Labour Party. He seemed to imply that it had already
:32:17. > :32:25.been clarified. Is that clear to you? I hope that is the case. For
:32:26. > :32:29.John to say that, I haven't heard it clearly before, but for John to say
:32:30. > :32:34.that I think is important because it sends the message about hearing some
:32:35. > :32:39.of the concerns and saying that if we are to move forward, as we need
:32:40. > :32:42.to, to move forward in a way that means we can focus on the Tories
:32:43. > :32:48.means that we address some of the issues that have been raised. You
:32:49. > :32:51.have to rack set the rules as they are, we have a set of rules, the
:32:52. > :32:59.selection of candidates, where people are coming in, new
:33:00. > :33:02.candidates, you have to rack set that there will be no change to the
:33:03. > :33:06.rules on parliamentary selection. Shut down the issue and frankly we
:33:07. > :33:11.shouldn't be having any talk about the deselection of Labour MPs. The
:33:12. > :33:15.only talk of deselection there should be is of the Conservative MPs
:33:16. > :33:24.in the next election. Let me ask you, would you both say that you are
:33:25. > :33:28.socialists? An embarrassed -- not embarrassed to use the word? I have
:33:29. > :33:34.called myself a democratic socialist, because the words of
:33:35. > :33:42.equality and fairness. But I also recognise that you need a way in
:33:43. > :33:47.which you are developing an agenda, the language that can reach out. I
:33:48. > :33:52.think it is positive, if we can find ways to come together, focus on
:33:53. > :33:58.common values, that is an agenda. Democratic socialist, Socialist
:33:59. > :34:02.democrat. Just a socialist. People watching the programme did not care
:34:03. > :34:05.about labels, they will care about what you will do for me and my
:34:06. > :34:14.community, how are you going to build a fairer Britain and help me
:34:15. > :34:18.realise my ambition? I published a pamphlet on the case for socialism.
:34:19. > :34:22.I think this is a slight distraction, the big message is
:34:23. > :34:25.about how we invest in the future, shared prosperity, that's what it's
:34:26. > :34:30.about and I don't want to lose focus on that. I don't think any of us do.
:34:31. > :34:35.The conference should be about setting the agenda. Being the same
:34:36. > :34:38.page as the British people, having an economy that works for everybody,
:34:39. > :34:43.tackling the issues following Brexit, making sure we have the NHS
:34:44. > :34:47.and social care that are fit for the future. You're both behaving well
:34:48. > :34:53.and saying what the party should say. We are saying what we think. So
:34:54. > :34:57.why don't you serve in the Shadow Cabinet? The obvious way to serve
:34:58. > :35:04.your party, he has the mandate, you have some of the talent and ideas,
:35:05. > :35:06.why not join the Shadow Cabinet? I'm standing to become the chair of the
:35:07. > :35:10.House of Commons select committee but I wouldn't rule anything out.
:35:11. > :35:15.There are a variety of ways that people can contribute. Tom Watson,
:35:16. > :35:18.part of the way he became the deputy leader is because of the fantastic
:35:19. > :35:22.work he did on the culture select committee, holding people like you
:35:23. > :35:29.to account or Margaret Hodge, holding the multinationals to
:35:30. > :35:32.account. It sounds like you are running away from serving in Jeremy
:35:33. > :35:38.Corbyn's Labour Party, you would like an independent job. Why not
:35:39. > :35:44.serve the new leader, he has a mandate? I haven't ruled anything
:35:45. > :35:51.out. So you are available? I am in the election I'm standing in at the
:35:52. > :35:54.moment. If people want to serve, I think we need people doing a variety
:35:55. > :35:59.of things, there is not one exclusive way to contribute. There
:36:00. > :36:03.will be people who will go back and serve on the front bench and they
:36:04. > :36:06.will have my support. There is a bigger picture about how we have a
:36:07. > :36:09.much better way of constructing a better way of working and dealing
:36:10. > :36:18.with the issues that led to the leadership election. I think that is
:36:19. > :36:24.right,... Will you serve in the Shadow Cabinet? The reason the
:36:25. > :36:31.election to the Shadow Cabinet is that it is a win-win. You may not
:36:32. > :36:35.win that argument. If there isn't an elected Shadow Cabinet, why don't
:36:36. > :36:40.you serve Jeremy Corbyn? By making the point that if you want a way in
:36:41. > :36:43.which we build bridges across the Parliamentary Labour Party, which I
:36:44. > :36:47.want to see, between the leadership and those who have served and those
:36:48. > :36:51.who chose not to over the last 12 months, some things may need to
:36:52. > :36:54.change, give and take on both sides and the role of the leader is
:36:55. > :36:59.central in changing some of the conditions. That's why having a way
:37:00. > :37:03.for the Parliamentary Labour Party to have a stake in the success of us
:37:04. > :37:09.as an operation, that is an important move. I think it is
:37:10. > :37:14.important because we want to see a shift on some of the issues and also
:37:15. > :37:20.around tackling the abuse we've seen in the party, some action to reduce
:37:21. > :37:24.and stop that. And we need to move together constructively, that's what
:37:25. > :37:28.the members want to see. We have a view seconds. You told me many
:37:29. > :37:34.things you want. Chuka Umunna, what are the compromises you are -- your
:37:35. > :37:38.wing of the party is willing to make? You have lost, you have been
:37:39. > :37:41.trounced, you have a leader with different beliefs, what is the
:37:42. > :37:47.compromise you are going to make for him? I think people are going to go
:37:48. > :37:51.back and serve on the front bench. Secondly, in many respects, this
:37:52. > :37:54.internal navel-gazing, the obsession with each other isn't going to win
:37:55. > :37:59.us the election. The one gold everyone has agreed on is winning
:38:00. > :38:04.the election but let me say that we're not going to do by talking to
:38:05. > :38:11.each other about things we agree on -- the one goal. On the economy, one
:38:12. > :38:16.reason we lost the election is our perceived economic incompetence, we
:38:17. > :38:21.must deal with that. Just over one third of Labour voters voted against
:38:22. > :38:23.the official position of the Labour Party, on the referendum,
:38:24. > :38:27.principally on issues around immigration. Why don't advocate the
:38:28. > :38:33.adoption of the approach that Ukip toque but we need an approach that
:38:34. > :38:37.resonates with our values -- that Ukip toque. We're out of time. --
:38:38. > :38:40.that they took. Now before we go, we've been
:38:41. > :38:42.reporting for the last week on the controversy surrounding
:38:43. > :38:45.the use of powerful steroid injections by one of Britain's
:38:46. > :38:46.greatest sportsmen, Sir Bradley Wiggins,
:38:47. > :38:49.ahead of three of his biggest races. Details of the injections emerged
:38:50. > :38:53.after hackers released files from the international
:38:54. > :38:55.anti-doping body Wada. What they revealed was
:38:56. > :38:58.perfectly within the rules - but several experts and cyclists
:38:59. > :39:01.suggested his use of a powerful drug which has been used in the past
:39:02. > :39:06.by cheats just didn't smell good. Today the head of Wiggins' cycling
:39:07. > :39:08.team, Sir Dave Brailsford, spoke for the first time
:39:09. > :39:11.about the affair to the BBC's Here's Mark Daly, who's been
:39:12. > :39:23.covering the story for us. It was 11 days ago when we first
:39:24. > :39:29.heard about Bradley Wiggins's therapeutic use exemptions, revealed
:39:30. > :39:33.by the suspected Russian hackers and on Newsnight we were raising
:39:34. > :39:38.questions about this powerful drug that he was given special
:39:39. > :39:42.dispensation to use by the cycling authorities for his asthma and
:39:43. > :39:48.allergies. It was controversial because it is a banned drug that was
:39:49. > :39:51.abused for years by cyclists including Michael Rasmussen, the
:39:52. > :39:55.pro-cyclist who told us that it is one of the most potent drugs are
:39:56. > :40:00.used. We heard from Sir Bradley Wiggins' former team doctor who said
:40:01. > :40:04.that he was surprised that his former rider had to have such a
:40:05. > :40:09.powerful medical intervention. Yesterday we heard from Sir Bradley
:40:10. > :40:16.himself on the Andrew Marr show when he said that the drug was indeed for
:40:17. > :40:22.a genuine medical condition and not for performance enhancing purposes
:40:23. > :40:26.but that appearance raised more questions than answers for many
:40:27. > :40:33.people and today it was so Dave Brailsford, the boss of Team Sky,
:40:34. > :40:37.who was being questioned. He mounted a defence of his former rider and
:40:38. > :40:42.the Team Sky processes. He said they followed advice from the team doctor
:40:43. > :40:49.and from the specialist who examined Sir Bradley Wiggins. He may have
:40:50. > :40:53.hoped that his intervention could draw a line under the saga but I
:40:54. > :40:57.doubt that because there remained some issues not resolved because
:40:58. > :41:03.four example there was no real explanation as to why it serve a
:41:04. > :41:08.knee needed the drug in 2011, 2012 and 2013 but not in 2014. He didn't
:41:09. > :41:15.answer the questions about the inconsistencies in Wiggins' books,
:41:16. > :41:20.his autobiography, when he said that he had been healthy in 2012 and yet
:41:21. > :41:24.here he is, having this powerful medical intervention. And also the
:41:25. > :41:30.issue of whose idea this was in the first place. Was it the ear, nose
:41:31. > :41:35.and throat specialist who he saw or did the idea come from within Team
:41:36. > :41:44.Sky itself? That is something that can put two so Dave Brailsford today
:41:45. > :41:50.-- Daniel. Five or six years ago, I can't pinpoint it exactly but I know
:41:51. > :41:56.that I've seen the reports from the specialist which quite clearly state
:41:57. > :42:01.that Bradley is suffering from a condition, he quite clearly states
:42:02. > :42:08.that the medication he was taking was being used optimally and was
:42:09. > :42:12.ineffective and he recommended that Bradley was given this particular
:42:13. > :42:19.medication to alleviate his symptoms. When I read that, I've got
:42:20. > :42:22.no reason to question the validity, the decision-making of a
:42:23. > :42:30.professional of that stature. It goes to the authorities. It was
:42:31. > :42:34.applied for, conveniently, just before the grand tours in three
:42:35. > :42:41.consecutive years, so effectively it was preventative, right? He was
:42:42. > :42:50.taking it in case. Let's be clear, a lot of TUEs in sport for asthma
:42:51. > :42:56.sufferers, allergic reactions, etc, and the nature is that you don't
:42:57. > :43:00.wait until you are really suffering, you have a puffer beforehand. There
:43:01. > :43:08.are contradictions that have come out, for example talking to Andrew
:43:09. > :43:12.Marr he said he wanted different treatment because he was struggling
:43:13. > :43:15.in the build-up to the 2012 Tour de France but there is no reference to
:43:16. > :43:21.that in his book and he said that he was in great health, fine form. Do
:43:22. > :43:25.you remember any evidence of him suffering? I've known him for a long
:43:26. > :43:29.time and I know that he has asthma and has had problems with allergies
:43:30. > :43:35.and that has been with him for his whole career. Any regrets about him
:43:36. > :43:42.taking that medication at those times from you? With the information
:43:43. > :43:47.I had at the time, five or six years ago, at that moment in time, the way
:43:48. > :43:52.it was presented and the expert opinion and the entire process, I
:43:53. > :43:57.would make the same decision then. And with the information you have
:43:58. > :44:02.now? We definitely reflect as we move on and we have changed our
:44:03. > :44:06.policies, as have the authorities around TUEs, but that is a
:44:07. > :44:14.reflection of learning and good practice and everyone's attempts to
:44:15. > :44:20.be rigorous around the TUE process. So you have crossed the thin blue
:44:21. > :44:29.line, the cornerstone? Not at all. The one mantra, you can ask anybody
:44:30. > :44:32.who has been in the team, we absolutely, there is no crossing the
:44:33. > :44:38.line, we do not go over the line. Maybe there is a grey area where you
:44:39. > :44:42.are within the rules but perhaps you have contravened the spirit of them?
:44:43. > :44:47.Claiming to be whiter than white but are you in a grey area? That's a
:44:48. > :44:53.fair question in terms of the debate about that aspect and people can
:44:54. > :44:59.have opinions. We can trust Sky and their achievements? 100%,
:45:00. > :45:03.absolutely, 100%, that is why we created the team in the first place,
:45:04. > :45:07.don't forget. This sport has had a difficult time in the past and the
:45:08. > :45:14.whole reason and ambition about creating Team Sky, having worked in
:45:15. > :45:20.this velodrome for ten years and the time, seeing young guys going out
:45:21. > :45:23.into a world where you wanted professional teams, where you knew
:45:24. > :45:29.that they could go and never ever be pressured to cheat or take any kind
:45:30. > :45:35.of doping substances and that's what we tried to do. We created that team
:45:36. > :45:39.and environment and I can guarantee you that nobody has or will ever get
:45:40. > :45:44.put under pressure in this team to do anything outside of the rules.
:45:45. > :45:48.Sir David Brailsford talking to Dan Roan.
:45:49. > :45:51.We'll be back here in Liverpool tomorrow night with the latest
:45:52. > :45:53.on Labour, but that's it for tonight, on a day
:45:54. > :45:56.that the Shadow Chancellor pledged that under a Labour government
:45:57. > :45:58.there would be no more Philip Greens.
:45:59. > :46:02.We estimate there are quite few people with that name in the UK,
:46:03. > :46:05.so if you're one of them, we suggest you don't answer the door
:46:06. > :46:15.We will shake up how corporations work and how the economy is owned
:46:16. > :46:19.and managed, we will clamp down on the abuses of power at the very top.
:46:20. > :46:41.Under Labour, no more Philip Greens at all.
:46:42. > :46:46.Expect a rather drab start to your Tuesday morning, lot of cloud, thick
:46:47. > :46:47.enough