:00:16. > :00:18.So, they're here, but are they clear as to what they do now?
:00:19. > :00:20.That's the question for the Conservatives,
:00:21. > :00:30.A new Prime Minister, a new zeal to change
:00:31. > :00:35.Things, but with an in-tray overloaded by Brexit. This is where
:00:36. > :00:41.Theresa May's vision begins to take shape. Let's keep working, to make
:00:42. > :00:44.Britain a country that works not for a privileged few, but for everyone
:00:45. > :00:49.in this great country. We'll try and fathom
:00:50. > :00:51.out what that means. And with hard Brexit on the cards,
:00:52. > :01:10.we'll get our heads around We want to take part in the... What
:01:11. > :01:17.does that mean? It means the act we'll have is worthless.
:01:18. > :01:21.Hello, welcome to Birmingham, and the Conservative Party Conference.
:01:22. > :01:24.Now, if this party has anything, it is a capacity to reinvent itself
:01:25. > :01:27.when the conditions demand it, and we are potentially in the midst
:01:28. > :01:31.of one of its historic transmogrifications
:01:32. > :01:36.Obviously, Doctor Who can do that kind of thing
:01:37. > :01:38.in a matter of seconds, it takes the Conservatives rather longer.
:01:39. > :01:41.So what this conference is about, is working out whether the change
:01:42. > :01:44.is real, and if it is, sketching in the new look
:01:45. > :01:49.of the party, with a little more definition than we've had up to now.
:01:50. > :01:52.But what a journey the party has taken in the 14 years
:01:53. > :01:58.since Theresa May first made a name for herself.
:01:59. > :02:13.Not just any Government, a majority of
:02:14. > :02:23.So, here we all are in 2016, the party trying
:02:24. > :02:26.not to be overwhelmed by Brexit and to looked in control.
:02:27. > :02:34.The Cameron era was itself a break from the past
:02:35. > :02:38.and most people understood what he was at least
:02:39. > :02:40.trying to achieve, a
:02:41. > :02:42.more liberal party, in touch with modern
:02:43. > :02:47.centre, wave from the party's forays elsewhere on the right.
:02:48. > :02:51.Now, we're obviously at a big juncture.
:02:52. > :02:53.But it's much harder to find the precise term
:02:54. > :03:05.Party activists have, kind of, cottoned on to the concept.
:03:06. > :03:10.Is that a new idea for the Conservative Party,
:03:11. > :03:15.No, we've always been a party for everyone.
:03:16. > :03:18.But how is it different from previous Tory parties?
:03:19. > :03:20.Still got the same bit of pragmatism but a bit
:03:21. > :03:28.I think there also a degree of populism about it, as well.
:03:29. > :03:30.It's holding the centre and holding the right at the same time.
:03:31. > :03:34.I don't think Cameron was against working
:03:35. > :03:38.He was a fabulous Prime Minister, as well.
:03:39. > :03:40.She's trying to make the Conservative Party the true
:03:41. > :03:54.I wonder, out of the security zone into the country that will soon,
:03:55. > :04:02.hopefully, be working for everyone, and the public are still working out
:04:03. > :04:07.To be honest with you, I found that we
:04:08. > :04:09.have a new Prime Minister about a day ago.
:04:10. > :04:16.A country that works for everyone,
:04:17. > :04:19.they are saying that a lot, have you heard that line?
:04:20. > :04:23.But you could almost say it's a recycled line, I don't think she's
:04:24. > :04:26.the first person to say that or something of that nature.
:04:27. > :04:28.It's the dream of lots of politicians, that
:04:29. > :04:31.And if you take out the Brexit issue,
:04:32. > :04:34.there's quite a bit of that about Theresa May's pitch, right now.
:04:35. > :04:36.However, it's impossible to believe that there is a coalition that
:04:37. > :04:39.really covers 100% of public opinion.
:04:40. > :04:42.At some point over this conference or over the next year, as
:04:43. > :04:46.we understand what Theresa May is about, she'll have to define what
:04:47. > :04:54.she's against as much as what she's for.
:04:55. > :04:56.Now, apart from working out how to make a country work
:04:57. > :04:59.for everybody, the party has to deal with that other issue: Brexit.
:05:00. > :05:02.Perhaps the biggest news that we have had since
:05:03. > :05:04.the referendum was in Theresa May's first conference speech yesterday,
:05:05. > :05:07.which suggested Britain is heading for a clear
:05:08. > :05:15.Put it this way, the speech knocked the pound down to new lows.
:05:16. > :05:18.Ideally, the leadership don't want Brexit to be the only talking point
:05:19. > :05:21.here, which is why they tried to get it out the way yesterday,
:05:22. > :05:24.but let's face it, it is the main talking point.
:05:25. > :05:26.Let's deal with it now, and some of the other issues
:05:27. > :05:29.with our two specialist editors: political editor, Nick Watt,
:05:30. > :05:36.Nick, first of all, something we know we're going to get tomorrow, a
:05:37. > :05:40.rather interesting announcement. That's right. There's going to be a
:05:41. > :05:45.major announcement by Theresa May and Sir Michael Fallon. They're
:05:46. > :05:47.going to pledge to end what they're calling the vexatious industry of
:05:48. > :05:52.claims against British soldiers. They're going to say in future
:05:53. > :05:56.conflicts, the UK will seek to derogate from two articles from the
:05:57. > :06:01.European Convention on Human Rights, article, two the right to life,
:06:02. > :06:05.article five, the right to liberty. They will invoke article 15, which
:06:06. > :06:08.says you can do this in times of emergency, or indeed in times of
:06:09. > :06:13.conflict. Big announcement by them. Obviously, it will only apply in
:06:14. > :06:17.future conflicts. The Iraq historical allegations team, whose
:06:18. > :06:20.work is due to complete in 2019, will carry on, interestingly going
:06:21. > :06:22.down very well with some of the newspapers that have campaigned on
:06:23. > :06:28.this. European convention, nothing to do with the EU actually. This is
:06:29. > :06:34.a different thing. OK, sticking on the non-Brexit stuff. Chris, policy
:06:35. > :06:39.issues. Tomorrow we've got education, health. Yeah, health
:06:40. > :06:42.first of all. Something that it's an awkward topic, the NHS is going
:06:43. > :06:46.through a financial crisis. But they've found something they can
:06:47. > :06:50.unite the party around. They want to reduce immigration pressures from
:06:51. > :06:55.the NHS by increasing the number of doctors we train domestically in the
:06:56. > :07:02.UK. At the moment we bring in about 1,000 doctors into the UK a year, we
:07:03. > :07:07.train about 6,000 on our own. We go up to 7,500, so in principle we
:07:08. > :07:09.could be self-sufficient. They can't talk about grammar schools very much
:07:10. > :07:12.because there's an open consultation. The Government has to
:07:13. > :07:16.legally wait for that to go through before they can really announce
:07:17. > :07:19.anything. They're announcing these six action areas where they're going
:07:20. > :07:24.to pilot new projects. These are areas of the country where education
:07:25. > :07:27.isn't terribly great at the moment. They are Blackpool, Derby, Norwich,
:07:28. > :07:31.Oldham, Scarborough and west Somerset. These are places that will
:07:32. > :07:36.pilot new ideas so that the success we've seen in London can be emulated
:07:37. > :07:39.elsewhere. Quite a bit going on. However, every time you get into a
:07:40. > :07:45.conversation here, you drift away and then you come back to Brexit.
:07:46. > :07:49.Let's talk about Brexit. We've had quite a lot here, yesterday and
:07:50. > :07:53.today. What do you make of the announcements so far. We finally
:07:54. > :07:56.have a time table for the process to begin to take us out. You mention
:07:57. > :08:02.about soft or hard Brexit. They are banned. Theresa May says that's a
:08:03. > :08:08.false dichotomy. I said softer not harder. You pass the test. Talking
:08:09. > :08:11.to ministers, it does feel that our submarine Prime Minister in broad
:08:12. > :08:16.daylight has done two things that perhaps people haven't noticed.
:08:17. > :08:19.Firstly, on the style of those negotiations, she's signalling that
:08:20. > :08:23.it will be really hard line. The message they want to get out to the
:08:24. > :08:28.rest of the EU is that the UK would not be scared, would not be fearful
:08:29. > :08:31.of leaving at the end of those negotiations without agreement.
:08:32. > :08:35.You'll know a guillotine comes down after two years. What they want to
:08:36. > :08:38.say is they don't want EU leaders to have the ability to prolong that if
:08:39. > :08:42.we're showing fear. On style, hard line. On the substance of the
:08:43. > :08:45.negotiation, Theresa May hasn't actually said a great deal more.
:08:46. > :08:49.Controlled immigration, the UK will set its own laws. No more than that.
:08:50. > :08:56.She's leaving the substance quite open. How united, you tell me, we've
:08:57. > :09:02.all had some conversations here, how united do you think the party is? At
:09:03. > :09:04.one level ministers are united. There's agreement that there's
:09:05. > :09:09.clarity on the process to take us out. In broad daylight, yesterday
:09:10. > :09:14.Boris Johnson said, "I don't believe leaving the EU will disadvantage us
:09:15. > :09:16.in any way." Today a very stern message from Philip Hammond about
:09:17. > :09:21.the challenge of those negotiations and saying he would do whatever it
:09:22. > :09:26.takes to protect the UK from the turbulence of those negotiations.
:09:27. > :09:33.There is real concern in the treasure that the -- treasurery that
:09:34. > :09:36.the Brexiteers are not to the challenge. With minister has been
:09:37. > :09:41.heard to remark that the Prime Minister has an incredible grasp of
:09:42. > :09:45.the detail and is realistic. Of the three Brexiteers the senior official
:09:46. > :09:54.has been heard to say, "They are away with the fairies." A true
:09:55. > :09:59.European city with attractions to rival the finest found on the
:10:00. > :10:04.continent. So where better for the Tory family to discuss its favourite
:10:05. > :10:08.subject. On day one of the Conservative Conference on Sunday,
:10:09. > :10:16.Theresa May finally set out a time table for Britain's Brexit
:10:17. > :10:19.negotiations. Thank you. The time for Philip Hammond to offer a
:10:20. > :10:24.sobering message about those negotiations. It is equally clear to
:10:25. > :10:31.me that the British people did not vote on June 23 to become poorer or
:10:32. > :10:34.less secure. So our task is clear, repat reiate our sovereignty,
:10:35. > :10:38.control our borders and seize the opportunities that the wider world
:10:39. > :10:42.has to offer, but do all of this while protecting our economy, our
:10:43. > :10:47.jobs and our living standards. The international trade secretary, Liam
:10:48. > :10:50.Fox, one of the Cabinet's three Brexiteers, was more optimistic. We
:10:51. > :10:57.will continue to push the case for Britain as a great place to do
:10:58. > :11:03.business. Now in case any of you haven't noticed, the sky didn't fall
:11:04. > :11:05.down on 24th June. Theresa May wants to be remembered as the Prime
:11:06. > :11:10.Minister who delivered on the wishes of the British people in the EU
:11:11. > :11:15.referendum. But what really drove her to the top was a determination
:11:16. > :11:18.to tackle what she's described as the burning injustices faced by the
:11:19. > :11:25.poor and to champion the struggling classes. That is quite an ambitious
:11:26. > :11:31.agenda, even without Brexit. But one former colleague of Theresa May, who
:11:32. > :11:34.was passed over in the recent reshuffle, believes Governments can
:11:35. > :11:37.ride two horses. This is partly what informs the way she suggested we're
:11:38. > :11:42.going to do the Brexit process, which is to pass this bill that will
:11:43. > :11:44.mean the moment we leave we have control over everything, but not
:11:45. > :11:49.saying that you're going to change every single rule and regulation
:11:50. > :11:53.over that process. I think that would be a capacity problem for
:11:54. > :11:57.Government. The way she's set it out means we can make sure we deliver
:11:58. > :12:00.that decision correctly. One long-standing supporter believes she
:12:01. > :12:04.could even book a place in history. All things being equal, she should
:12:05. > :12:08.have a pretty good run at 2020. She could be our Prime Minister for
:12:09. > :12:13.close on nine years, even before the election of 2025. So I actually
:12:14. > :12:21.believe that she will have a chance of successfully negotiating our
:12:22. > :12:23.Brexit from the EU and at the same time, the the social reforms and
:12:24. > :12:31.other factors important to her. She'll have a chance to do both.
:12:32. > :12:34.Lord Ashcroftish yewed a note -- Ashcroft issued a note of caution.
:12:35. > :12:45.Can Theresa May as the Prime Minister want to get involved in the
:12:46. > :12:49.minutie in all she's trying to do. That will depend on her ministers of
:12:50. > :12:55.state in the areas you talk about - can she trust them? Can she rely on
:12:56. > :12:59.them? The three wise men, or the Brexiteers to friends, will be busy
:13:00. > :13:01.over the next few years, but one of their supporters believes other
:13:02. > :13:11.ministers will have plenty of time on their hands to focus on the Prime
:13:12. > :13:15.Minister's domestic agenda. The EU stuff and article 50s will be the
:13:16. > :13:19.lawyers. We're not going to comment on it, which I find reassuring,
:13:20. > :13:26.actually we'll be able to get on with the day-to-day stuff. One
:13:27. > :13:29.Remain supporter believes Brexit will drown out everything else. If
:13:30. > :13:34.we push through with Brexit, it will take up most of the band width
:13:35. > :13:38.probably for five years. That will limit what Government can do. There
:13:39. > :13:41.are interesting ideas on grammar schools and housing and so on. The
:13:42. > :13:45.Government will carry on being a Government, it will talk about other
:13:46. > :13:49.things. But Brexit will touch so many areas of life and Government
:13:50. > :13:53.activity, that it is going to dominate the agenda. Theresa May
:13:54. > :13:58.says she can and indeed must deliver her two goals. In her mind they are
:13:59. > :14:00.linked because the voters who took Britain out of the EU were crying
:14:01. > :14:05.out for change. Well, one rare point of continuity
:14:06. > :14:07.between David Cameron and Theresa May is that they both
:14:08. > :14:11.wanted this man in the Treasury. David Gauke, now Chief Secretary
:14:12. > :14:19.to the Treasury, joins me now. Welcome to the programme. A lot of
:14:20. > :14:22.people interpreted Theresa May's speech yesterday as forget the
:14:23. > :14:26.single market, we are not going to be in it. We will have access to it,
:14:27. > :14:30.but we won't be in it. Is that your interpretation? What she was saying
:14:31. > :14:35.is that one lesson we have to learn from the referendum result in June
:14:36. > :14:39.is that first of all, very obviously, we have to leave the
:14:40. > :14:43.European Union, but secondly, that a lot of the votes for Leave were
:14:44. > :14:47.driven by concern about immigration and that we have to respond to that.
:14:48. > :14:52.In particular, the sense that we don't set our own rules when it
:14:53. > :14:57.comes to migration. I think that was very clearly a lesson that she has
:14:58. > :15:02.taken from the referendum result. I think, she's very clear that we need
:15:03. > :15:05.to ensure that the economy is strong, that we have access to be
:15:06. > :15:10.able to trade goods and services with the European Union. What that
:15:11. > :15:14.particular model would be, I think, is something for the negotiations.
:15:15. > :15:17.We probably need to get away from the very simple, you know, is it a
:15:18. > :15:22.Norway model, Canada model or anything of that sort. I don't want
:15:23. > :15:26.to be simplistic about it, but basically, full membership of the
:15:27. > :15:30.single market, we've said goodbye to that some time ago yeah. That is not
:15:31. > :15:34.going to happen. And not even on a Norwegian scale. We're going to be
:15:35. > :15:40.much more selective in our relationship than that?
:15:41. > :15:47.Well, I think we will go into the negotiations with those two, if you
:15:48. > :15:51.like, overarching objectives. Now, trying to get the best possible deal
:15:52. > :15:55.that we will get. I didn't think it makes sense too, kind of, take a
:15:56. > :15:59.position whereby you say this one is really important, this one, we will
:16:00. > :16:02.do what we can but it is secondary. You are immediately weakening your
:16:03. > :16:09.negotiating power. That is not how you go into negotiation, you go in
:16:10. > :16:12.seeking the best on both runs and seek to achieve it. Why do you think
:16:13. > :16:16.the pound fell when Theresa May spoke yesterday? You mentioned I
:16:17. > :16:19.have been a Treasury minister for a while and one good rule for a
:16:20. > :16:23.Treasury minister is not to talk or speculate about sterling. I probably
:16:24. > :16:31.shouldn't get into that. Look, the markets are, move around, from one
:16:32. > :16:34.issue or another. You know, obviously... Policy in this area is
:16:35. > :16:38.going to affect sterling, there are many other factors as well. It is
:16:39. > :16:43.probably best as a Treasury minister not to get drawn into it. Hinting,
:16:44. > :16:46.though you may be trying. It was interesting that the Chancellor,
:16:47. > :16:50.Philip Hammond on the radio this morning did suggest that the central
:16:51. > :16:54.estimate of Brexit, this is the Treasury estimate, is that we will
:16:55. > :16:58.be permanently 4% poorer. Not tomorrow but over the years, we will
:16:59. > :17:02.be 4% behind where we would otherwise be, that is the long run
:17:03. > :17:08.picture. Is that the official government view? When it comes to
:17:09. > :17:12.economic forecasts, obviously, the Treasury made an assessment earlier
:17:13. > :17:17.this year as to it. An assessment based on a number of factors. It
:17:18. > :17:22.partly depends on the nature of the relationship we have with the
:17:23. > :17:31.European Union and it depends on various factors. The short-term
:17:32. > :17:36.estimate they made white ... Was that the one from the George Osborne
:17:37. > :17:41.Treasury dossier on costs of Brexit? Is that the figure he was talking
:17:42. > :17:46.about? I didn't hear his interview, I do not know the context in which
:17:47. > :17:50.Philip Hammond said that. But before percent is what he is quoting from
:17:51. > :17:56.the dossier? It depends on which model we go down. -- but the 4%.
:17:57. > :17:59.There was analysis from the Treasury earlier this year that suggested
:18:00. > :18:04.there are some long-term impacts. For those of us in government, our
:18:05. > :18:11.job is to get on with implementing what the British people have
:18:12. > :18:15.decided. To make a success of it. If you like, has the Treasury worked at
:18:16. > :18:19.the differences between those models? I recollect, back in April,
:18:20. > :18:25.the Treasury view was if you are in the single market, expected to be 4%
:18:26. > :18:29.poorer. EA option, we won't go into the details. If you go for a lesser
:18:30. > :18:36.Brexit, hard of Brexit, the costs go up to 6% or 8% of national income.
:18:37. > :18:40.We should be chewing over those figures, shouldn't we? If you like,
:18:41. > :18:43.these are the prices on the menu that is being chosen by our
:18:44. > :18:48.government, selected by our government, the option from the
:18:49. > :18:51.menu. The point I I would make, the Treasury did the analysis earlier
:18:52. > :18:56.this year. Hasn't gone back and redone the analysis. Staggered by
:18:57. > :19:01.the analysis. Philip Hammond was quoting it this morning. I suppose I
:19:02. > :19:05.was surprised the analysis done in the heat of the referendum was now
:19:06. > :19:10.being quoted by the Chancellor as the government view of the effect of
:19:11. > :19:15.Brexit. As I say, didn't hear exactly what Philip said. But there
:19:16. > :19:19.are some challenges that we face, as a consequence of Brexit. But I come
:19:20. > :19:25.back to this point about, you know, we are now in this position of
:19:26. > :19:28.negotiating a new relationship. This is an unprecedented situation. We
:19:29. > :19:35.need to find the best possible deal we can get. These are... Just brave
:19:36. > :19:39.faced words. Can you think of any other action the government has
:19:40. > :19:43.taken that would make us permanently 4% poorer? Other than going to a
:19:44. > :19:47.world war? We had a referendum and we have to respect the result, the
:19:48. > :19:50.British people have decided we have left the European union -- we have
:19:51. > :19:54.left. If we are going to make a success of it, which is what the
:19:55. > :19:58.government is determined to do. Then we need to get the best possible
:19:59. > :20:06.deal. That means... I come back to this point. You come back but we
:20:07. > :20:08.need the information as to what the costs are believing the single
:20:09. > :20:10.market or going to the WTO rules. There is no point having this
:20:11. > :20:14.discussion and everybody clapping Theresa May saying we will make a
:20:15. > :20:18.success of it if you are busy doing work that makes us 2% poorer for
:20:19. > :20:23.eternity. This is big stuff, isn't it? The point is that a decision has
:20:24. > :20:26.been made and we need to implement. On the perspective of all of the
:20:27. > :20:30.government, we want to do this in a way that is as economically
:20:31. > :20:34.successful for the country. That means, if you like, trying to
:20:35. > :20:38.ameliorate some of the downsides. Looking at some of the ways we can
:20:39. > :20:43.access European markets for goods and. Yeah. It also means that we
:20:44. > :20:48.look at the potential opportunities for Brexit in terms of potential
:20:49. > :20:54.trade deals with other countries. And being a beacon for free trade,
:20:55. > :20:57.if you like. To see what is the best way in which we can address the new
:20:58. > :21:02.situation. That is what we are determined to do. But the starting
:21:03. > :21:07.point has to be the British people voting to leave and we have to
:21:08. > :21:12.leave. Theresa May has set out, not red lines, everything is negotiable,
:21:13. > :21:15.she mentioned immigration, taking back control of the European Court
:21:16. > :21:19.of Justice. We can't be bossed around by a foreign court. She
:21:20. > :21:23.didn't mention in the speech yesterday, we will not be paying a
:21:24. > :21:30.penny to the European Union, if you like, in a subscription fee. Yeah.
:21:31. > :21:33.Can I take it that we may come as a possible result for this
:21:34. > :21:38.negotiation, on the table, is some negotiation that we may pay them a
:21:39. > :21:42.fee? For example, better access to the market. So, we will give some
:21:43. > :21:46.things, take some things, give some money and get things in return?
:21:47. > :21:51.Again, I come back to a point I made earlier. You go into a negotiation,
:21:52. > :21:58.you don't come up with a list of things that you say, here are the
:21:59. > :22:01.things we are going to concede... She came up with the list, it was in
:22:02. > :22:04.the speech! Trying to over analyse and saying, if something is included
:22:05. > :22:07.in the speech than we are really serious about it but if there is a
:22:08. > :22:11.speech that doesn't make reference to something else that we are ready
:22:12. > :22:14.to concede on it. I mean, I could stop you doing that, but that
:22:15. > :22:18.doesn't seem to be a sensible way for me to think of negotiating. To
:22:19. > :22:23.summarise our Brexit conversation so far, we know diddly squat about
:22:24. > :22:29.what's going to happen. But, that's not necessarily a bad thing, because
:22:30. > :22:32.obviously we want to keep everything open. There is a lot to play for and
:22:33. > :22:35.we will not rush it. What is the best way to get the best deal? Not
:22:36. > :22:39.to lay it all out, hold back information, frustrating though it
:22:40. > :22:43.may be for journalists. But imagine a Mac I understand that. It is
:22:44. > :22:47.important for the country, given the prices for various options. There
:22:48. > :22:51.will no doubt be a very full debate when we reached the end of this
:22:52. > :22:55.conclusion. Let's go onto, very briefly, this domestic agenda.
:22:56. > :22:59.Theresa May seems to be quite ambitious for change in the country,
:23:00. > :23:03.she wants to become if you like, a more industrial policy for example.
:23:04. > :23:07.Helping people who perhaps don't have so much money in their pocket.
:23:08. > :23:12.Should we take it that that agenda is going to cost a little extra
:23:13. > :23:16.money. So, over time, we might have to raise taxes, somehow? Or is it
:23:17. > :23:18.possible you can deliver that agenda without spending a penny more than
:23:19. > :23:28.anyone had talked about spending? Your question, I suspect, relates to
:23:29. > :23:33.the statement that Philip said, today, that other people said in the
:23:34. > :23:37.past, we are not aiming for the 2020 surplus. There are a couple of
:23:38. > :23:43.elements to that. Firstly, if the economy does slow over the course of
:23:44. > :23:46.the next few years, following Brexit referendum, tax receipts would be
:23:47. > :23:49.lower than the other would be. Then we need to borrow more. I wasn't
:23:50. > :23:54.asking about that at all. I was asking about... Do you think Theresa
:23:55. > :23:58.May can deliver this ambitious social agenda she has been talking
:23:59. > :24:02.about? Can that be delivered in the medium to long-term without raising
:24:03. > :24:07.a bit of extra money? Has she got in her head and agenda costs nothing? I
:24:08. > :24:12.was going to turn to the second element of this. OK. It was very
:24:13. > :24:17.clear from the Chancellor's speech today that we are looking at, for
:24:18. > :24:24.example, ways in which we spend money on economic infrastructure.
:24:25. > :24:27.That has a very good rate of return. Robust contribution towards the
:24:28. > :24:31.economy. Looking at ways in which perhaps we could do more of that,
:24:32. > :24:38.given that, actually, we are able to borrow very cheaply at the moment.
:24:39. > :24:42.But there is a particular driver for improving productivity. Now, those
:24:43. > :24:46.are, if you like other measures that fit, perhaps, with what you are
:24:47. > :24:52.talking about. That sort of Theresa May agenda. There might be scope for
:24:53. > :24:55.us to do more in those areas, about driving up productivity, making sure
:24:56. > :24:59.that the economy is strong in every part of the country. You know,
:25:00. > :25:03.making a country that works for everyone. You know, all of that is
:25:04. > :25:07.part of our thinking. That in the short term, maybe we need a bit more
:25:08. > :25:08.flexibility. Nice to talk to you, thank you.
:25:09. > :25:11.Well, we just tried to shed a little light on what the Government's
:25:12. > :25:14.position is on some crucial aspects of the Brexit negotiations.
:25:15. > :25:16.We'll leave it to you to decide how successfully.
:25:17. > :25:19.But, the truth is that there is a heady mixture of conflict,
:25:20. > :25:21.confusion and contradiction around this Conference about
:25:22. > :25:25.We sent Lewis Goodall to quiz the great and the good
:25:26. > :25:32.MUSIC: Word Up! by Cameo.
:25:33. > :25:35.Brexit is the word of the year, the subject of virtually every
:25:36. > :25:41.meeting, argument and drink-fuelled piece of idle gossip at conference.
:25:42. > :25:43.But what about all the other Brexit terms we barely gave
:25:44. > :25:45.a moment's thought to, before the referendum result?
:25:46. > :25:51.The Prime Minister is terribly fond of reminding us that
:25:52. > :25:55.Brexit means Brexit, but within that, what do
:25:56. > :25:59.Do you know your common market from the common agricultural policy,
:26:00. > :26:03.Well, we thought we would help you out by commissioning our very
:26:04. > :26:06.And ask Conservative Party members, ministers and MPs
:26:07. > :26:09.MUSIC: Word Up! By Cameo.
:26:10. > :26:12.Do you think we should stay in the single market?
:26:13. > :26:14.Why not? It's disastrous.
:26:15. > :26:20.We should do much better by ourselves.
:26:21. > :26:23.It's very important to trade, but we are negotiating right now,
:26:24. > :26:26.so it's kind of important to not talk about what we want
:26:27. > :26:33.Sajid Javid, hello, I just want your thoughts are on staying
:26:34. > :26:35.in the single market, do you think we ought to?
:26:36. > :26:39.No, no, it's great to have you here, you're one
:26:40. > :26:42.MUSIC: Word Up! By Cameo.
:26:43. > :26:44.Sorry, have you got ten seconds for Newsnight?
:26:45. > :26:46.No, no, no. I'm busy, thank you.
:26:47. > :26:49.We're just wondering, we're trying to tell the public
:26:50. > :26:52.what the single market is and the custom unions,
:26:53. > :26:57.What's the difference is between the single market
:26:58. > :27:02.I could, yes, very easily, but it would take about 15 minutes.
:27:03. > :27:03.15 minutes?! Surely not!
:27:04. > :27:05.Do you know what the customs union is?
:27:06. > :27:08.I do know what these things are, it's my job to know what these
:27:09. > :27:11.things are, but I don't think, you know, they are not terminology
:27:12. > :27:17.Could you explain to us what the customs union is?
:27:18. > :27:20.I could explain what the customs union is, what the single market is,
:27:21. > :27:23.I could explain to you what people think hard Brexit is, soft Brexit.
:27:24. > :27:25.But I think these terms are not the terms...
:27:26. > :27:27.For the benefit of us, could you explain?
:27:28. > :27:33.Well, you know what they are, which is why...
:27:34. > :27:36.The customs union is a free-trade area between the member states
:27:37. > :27:55.MUSIC: Word Up! By Cameo.
:27:56. > :27:58.Yes, I do. Can you explain?
:27:59. > :28:01.I'm not going to do one of your pub quiz operations,
:28:02. > :28:05.Equivalence? Yeah.
:28:06. > :28:08.Well, as a word, it means it should be the equivalent of something.
:28:09. > :28:12.I think it's got a specific European Union context.
:28:13. > :28:15.Well, there's a lot of European stuff that nobody knows
:28:16. > :28:21.Well, it's having reglatory standards that are more or less
:28:22. > :28:24.But it's not the same as being governed strictly
:28:25. > :28:27.or uniformly, absolutely by the EU rules.
:28:28. > :28:41.At the end of a long day's search, the dictionary remains,
:28:42. > :28:48.For all our sakes's we better hope the politicians
:28:49. > :28:53.For a limited time only, it will be tariff free.
:28:54. > :28:57.So, what kind of Conservative Party is being presented here and is it
:28:58. > :28:59.one that will prove more or, at least, as popular
:29:00. > :29:03.than the Cameron-Osborne vintage that won an election just last year?
:29:04. > :29:08.With me here are three people who've seen more Conferences
:29:09. > :29:14.than they might care to admit: Danny Finkelstein, Conservative peer
:29:15. > :29:16.and columnist for the Times, Andrew Rawnsley, from the Observer,
:29:17. > :29:21.and Jenni Russell, also from the Times.
:29:22. > :29:26.And Heidi Allen, Conservative MP. Last year, you were complaining
:29:27. > :29:31.about posh boys in charge of this place, weren't you? You must be
:29:32. > :29:37.delighted, you must think Theresa May is... She has made me cry once
:29:38. > :29:40.already. When? Her first speech on the steps of number ten, I thought,
:29:41. > :29:45.somebody seems to be speaking for the little man. That made me
:29:46. > :29:53.excited. Is this a new party or is this the words have changed? It is
:29:54. > :29:56.like any new branding, we have a new chief exec in charge, the words are
:29:57. > :29:58.great. I am optimistic and hopeful. I have seen a few early signs, the
:29:59. > :30:02.changes to E S A, long-term claimants will no longer get tested
:30:03. > :30:05.again. A great start but I want to see more of that.
:30:06. > :30:11.Do you think this is a sharp contrast? There are changes. We
:30:12. > :30:14.concentrate on the changes and can miss the big picture. The Government
:30:15. > :30:20.is in the same situation, maybe even a bit more of a difficult situation
:30:21. > :30:24.to the one that we were in before, after the general election and after
:30:25. > :30:26.the Brexit referendum. It's still a Government with a small majority.
:30:27. > :30:30.It's still a Government that doesn't have any money. Now on top of that,
:30:31. > :30:34.they have to achieve Brexit. One of the things that we do, we lock at
:30:35. > :30:38.the differences by looking at the disposition of the party. The other
:30:39. > :30:41.thing to look at is the situation. The situation has very many
:30:42. > :30:45.similarities. Along with inheriting David Cameron's office, Theresa
:30:46. > :30:49.May's inherited David Cameron's problems as well. Yes, of course,
:30:50. > :30:53.she has a different approach. I've always thought of her of being in
:30:54. > :30:58.the modernising tradition. She would say she was an early moderniser. I
:30:59. > :31:01.regarded her at the beginning of the process of modernisation as an ally.
:31:02. > :31:04.She has a different focus. When David Cameron took over it was about
:31:05. > :31:08.shifting the aimth of the Conservative Party to a
:31:09. > :31:11.forward-facing. She's looking at a different thing, which is can the
:31:12. > :31:15.Conservative Party appeal more broadly. It's a different emphasis.
:31:16. > :31:22.I think by concentrating only on the differences you miss quite a lot. It
:31:23. > :31:26.feels like, I mean a lot of people have said this, she is where Ed
:31:27. > :31:30.Miliband was, or the chatter is around Ed Miliband before the last
:31:31. > :31:33.election. Yes, one of her favourite things is, she did that in the first
:31:34. > :31:42.speech which Heidi mentioned outside Number Ten and she's done it in
:31:43. > :31:45.every major, important speech on her domestic ambitions, talking about
:31:46. > :31:48.managing and people echo Ed Miliband's squeezed middle or
:31:49. > :31:53.perhaps the less well remembered, Nick Clegg's alarm clock Britain. I
:31:54. > :31:56.think she is probably onto something, which is actually
:31:57. > :32:00.historically served the Conservatives well when they've got
:32:01. > :32:05.it right electorally, which is people who are in work, but on
:32:06. > :32:08.relatively low wages and the Conservatives often recruit when
:32:09. > :32:12.they've been successful that part of population. Or some of them into
:32:13. > :32:17.their coalition. Of course, the test and this is the really crucial thing
:32:18. > :32:20.for those people and everybody else looking at her, is do you translate
:32:21. > :32:26.the nice words about them into any sort of policy. So far Brexit apart,
:32:27. > :32:30.in terms of solid policy, we've had grammar schools, which many people,
:32:31. > :32:33.including many Tories, think is a rather bizarre diversion. Actually
:32:34. > :32:37.if she was serious and you translated the things she said about
:32:38. > :32:42.what she wants to do for that part of society into policy, it would
:32:43. > :32:45.actually give the ingredients for quiet a radically different Toryism
:32:46. > :32:49.which would mean taking on vested interests in the Conservative Party
:32:50. > :32:53.itself. For me the most interesting thing she's done is appoint Matthew
:32:54. > :32:58.Taylor, who ran the policy unit under Tony Blair to investigate the
:32:59. > :33:03.workings of the labour market, the gig economy, the zero hours. Maybe
:33:04. > :33:07.there is a sort of thing, the centre left and the kind of the right
:33:08. > :33:12.getting together to preserve the status quo and fending off Corbyn
:33:13. > :33:17.and the more extreme left, is that a way of looking at it? That's an
:33:18. > :33:21.important target for her to hit. As the economy's changed, more and more
:33:22. > :33:25.of us are in the insecure economy. That probably drove Brexit. A great
:33:26. > :33:29.many people at the bottom thinking their lives had no structure. The
:33:30. > :33:33.question is, will she do anything that's actually coherent about that?
:33:34. > :33:39.I was interviewing Iain Duncan Smith this afternoon. He was saying that
:33:40. > :33:42.the single most, biggest mistake that Cameron and Osborne made about
:33:43. > :33:45.the poor was not raising the level at which you can earn under
:33:46. > :33:50.universal credit before you start having benefits taken away. Forget
:33:51. > :33:54.the talk about social justice and so on, the single thing that Theresa
:33:55. > :33:59.May should be doing is putting an enormous amount of money is to
:34:00. > :34:04.ensure when universal credit comes in poorer people keep more incomes.
:34:05. > :34:10.That would put a few billions... You're all nodding. The money has to
:34:11. > :34:14.come from somewhere. I'm not sure that's going to be possible.
:34:15. > :34:18.However, first I thought this thing of governing the country for those
:34:19. > :34:22.who are just about managing was for David Moyes. I realised over time
:34:23. > :34:27.she is aiming at a different audience. It does mean, it is a
:34:28. > :34:33.change of emphasis. It will mean more emphasis on Government and what
:34:34. > :34:39.Government can do. The Conservative policy's emphasis has shifted from
:34:40. > :34:41.how to cut Government, cut taxes, to thinking, look Government spends 40%
:34:42. > :34:48.of our national income what can it do. That will be her emphasis. It
:34:49. > :34:51.will challenge vested interests. The fantastic tension here is that if
:34:52. > :34:55.everybody thinks if we're going to leave the European Union we will be
:34:56. > :35:02.substantially poorer. And the people most likely to be hit are at the
:35:03. > :35:08.bottom. That's her problem. Heidi, go on. It's 350 million per week for
:35:09. > :35:12.the NHS remember. That cash is there. You've brought us onto the
:35:13. > :35:17.subject of whether the party is united under Theresa May. Because
:35:18. > :35:20.everybody thinks she's great. Everybody I've spoken to. On Brexit,
:35:21. > :35:24.there is a division waiting to erupt. People say it's obviously
:35:25. > :35:29.bonkers. We're about to do something really stupid. No, I don't know, I
:35:30. > :35:34.think... You think that. It's too early to know whether it's complete
:35:35. > :35:38.peace and harmony, mostly because we haven't been back in Parliament for
:35:39. > :35:43.long before we've broken for recess again. She's being shrewd by talking
:35:44. > :35:46.about a time scale where article 50 will be triggered. There's something
:35:47. > :35:50.to give there. Most of the egos have been put to one side for now. I'm
:35:51. > :35:55.sure they'll come back again. Now it's calmer. The key about Brexit,
:35:56. > :35:59.nothing has yet happened. The European Union, the 27 of them who
:36:00. > :36:04.will remain in the European Union when we leave have not had their
:36:05. > :36:08.meeting where unanimously they have to agree what their negotiating
:36:09. > :36:13.position is. We have not revealed what ours is. You haven't accepted
:36:14. > :36:17.the result of the referendum. The key factor is that lots of people on
:36:18. > :36:19.the remain side of the argument, like me, believe that the
:36:20. > :36:22.Conservative Party asked people for their opinion and have to respect
:36:23. > :36:26.that result. That is a very important part of the unity. I don't
:36:27. > :36:30.agree with your interpretation. I think one of the things, by the way,
:36:31. > :36:33.that will serve the Conservative Party from having a row is even if
:36:34. > :36:37.some people think we should be members of the single market, we
:36:38. > :36:41.won't be offered membership, so it won't come to that. This is not a
:36:42. > :36:46.negotiation in which we get to decide everything. I think - Do you
:36:47. > :36:50.think the Tory party's realised that? I'm not sure they have. I
:36:51. > :36:54.think most people in the Conservative Party have accepted the
:36:55. > :36:58.result of the referendum. Do you agree that most have accepted the
:36:59. > :37:03.result of the referendum? I think within the Parliamentary party, yes.
:37:04. > :37:07.I think the people, the 42% or 48% of the country probably haven't. In
:37:08. > :37:12.constituencies like mine, they are still fighting very, very hard not
:37:13. > :37:18.to accept it. But just going back to whether we have access to the single
:37:19. > :37:22.market, I think Theresa May has it in her to get a deal that works for
:37:23. > :37:25.us, a brand new deal for the UK and yes, there is negotiation that will
:37:26. > :37:28.be required on both sides. She's getting out there and bidding
:37:29. > :37:34.relationships. I don't want to get any more EU, go on then. You're all
:37:35. > :37:39.personed on these seats. It's hard to balance. There's all this
:37:40. > :37:42.revivalist enthusiasm on the platforms, when you talk to people
:37:43. > :37:45.in public. The people who are worried about the consequences of
:37:46. > :37:50.Brexit and the way in which it's going to make the divisions clearer
:37:51. > :37:54.in a year etime are the people who are remainers, looking at the
:37:55. > :38:01.economics, talking in huddled corners like Soviet Dissidents. They
:38:02. > :38:05.don't dare say what they feel. Last question, does the left-right, does
:38:06. > :38:09.that spectrum, every now and then people say left-right it doesn't
:38:10. > :38:16.work any more. Does it not work any more? You look at Theresa May, quite
:38:17. > :38:21.hard pro-gay marriage, more conservative on issues of security
:38:22. > :38:25.and personal liberty. I think she will end up having something of a
:38:26. > :38:29.left-right argument in the party in which she will be on the left. I
:38:30. > :38:33.think this is a misinterpretation of her caused by one policy of grammar
:38:34. > :38:37.schools. If you look across the piece of the emphasis she's making,
:38:38. > :38:39.it's taking David Cameron's move away from Thatcherism on. One of the
:38:40. > :38:42.real questions is how the Conservative Party, we haven't
:38:43. > :38:44.talked about this at all, how it reacts to what's happened to the
:38:45. > :38:51.Labour Party. There's two ways to look at that. One is let's have in
:38:52. > :38:54.the centre ground and have that since Labour wants to go somewhere
:38:55. > :38:59.else apparently. Another view, which will be prevalent among people who
:39:00. > :39:04.regard themselves as more radical right, they say this is a golden
:39:05. > :39:07.opportunity... To move to the right. And I think that argument is
:39:08. > :39:09.unresolved. We need to leave it there. Thank you all very much.
:39:10. > :39:14.We leave you with Karen Bradley, the new Culture Secretary who made
:39:15. > :39:16.a passionate defence of her credentials for the job,
:39:17. > :39:18.despite having been a chartered accountant in a previous life.
:39:19. > :39:21.It somehow reminded us of something else, something
:39:22. > :39:45.Being one means I must have no interest in the arts.
:39:46. > :39:53.Accountants are, shock horror, people, to!
:39:54. > :39:56.It says you are an extremely dull person.
:39:57. > :40:01.Do you have any idea of what you want to be?
:40:02. > :40:07.Yes, but what qualifications do you have?
:40:08. > :40:09.I'm a regular at the new Vic Theatre.
:40:10. > :40:14.And I have paintings by moorlands artists.
:40:15. > :40:17.And it lights up and says "Lion tamer" in big red neon letters.
:40:18. > :40:24.It's sad isn't it that this is what accountancy does to people.
:40:25. > :40:27.The only way we can fight this terrible, debilitating
:40:28. > :40:36.I only want to see my name in lights.
:40:37. > :40:43.Hi there. It's a settled prospect across the UK for the next several
:40:44. > :40:47.days really with high pressure and winds from the east keeping
:40:48. > :40:49.rain-bearing weather fronts to the west. There will be subtle
:40:50. > :40:50.variations.