:00:00. > :00:07.For the referendum was not just a vote to withdraw from the EU.
:00:08. > :00:11.That the world works well for a privileged
:00:12. > :00:15.We will not allow their children to have the
:00:16. > :00:18.same opportunities that wealthier children enjoy.
:00:19. > :00:23.Time to reject the ideological templates provided by the socialist
:00:24. > :00:40.Theresa May tells Britain a change has got to come.
:00:41. > :00:42.Tonight, Newsnight has learned of a major shift in economic policy
:00:43. > :00:55.The prime minister spoke of the unfair side effects
:00:56. > :00:59.I understand the government's warming up to a more Keynsian fiscal
:01:00. > :01:03.One of the Prime Minister's closest advisors joins us live,
:01:04. > :01:06.and we'll discuss the impact of the whole speech.
:01:07. > :01:12.This week was about one woman - and one speech.
:01:13. > :01:15.Today, we heard from Theresa May - full throated in her pitch
:01:16. > :01:18.We'll come onto the land grab in a second.
:01:19. > :01:21.But first, Newsnight has learnt of a brand new direction that her
:01:22. > :01:28.Theresa May talked of the bad side effects of quantitative easing.
:01:29. > :01:31.So are we about to see a quiet revolution there too?
:01:32. > :01:39.Our political editor Nick Watt has the story and he's with me now.
:01:40. > :01:46.What have you learned? I understand that Theresa May wants to embark on
:01:47. > :01:52.a major shift of economic policy. This is to move away from what
:01:53. > :01:55.George Osborne described back in 2009 as monetary activism which
:01:56. > :01:59.brought us low interest rates and quantitative easing. Her view is in
:02:00. > :02:03.the future the emphasis should be more in the direction of fiscal
:02:04. > :02:07.policy, to you and me that means tax and spending. This is what she said
:02:08. > :02:12.in her speech in Birmingham earlier today.
:02:13. > :02:14.Because while monetary policy with superlow interest rates
:02:15. > :02:16.and quantitative easing provided the necessary emergency medicine
:02:17. > :02:17.after the financial crash, we have to acknowledge
:02:18. > :02:19.that there have been some bad side-effects.
:02:20. > :02:25.People with mortgages have found their debts cheaper.
:02:26. > :02:28.People with savings have found themselves poorer.
:02:29. > :02:39.A change has got to come and we are going to deliver it.
:02:40. > :02:46.Her speech today came after a speech from Philip Hammond on Monday. He
:02:47. > :02:50.said as the government response to the Brexit vote, fiscal policy may
:02:51. > :02:53.have a role. Downing Street are making absolutely clear that
:02:54. > :02:57.monetary policy is solely the preserve of the Bank of England
:02:58. > :03:01.which is independent. But I understand that her view is that as
:03:02. > :03:05.we move forward, and possibly as early as the Autumn Statement on the
:03:06. > :03:08.23rd of November, we will see an emphasis away from monetary policy,
:03:09. > :03:15.although the Bank of England is still in charge of that, in favour
:03:16. > :03:19.of fiscal policy. And, whisper it carefully, when Theresa May talks
:03:20. > :03:24.about public investment and getting a better return on the investment,
:03:25. > :03:30.it feels to me as if we may be moving mildly and slowly to a more
:03:31. > :03:37.Keynesian approach. What do you sense is driving this shift? There
:03:38. > :03:41.is one simple explanation which is changing times require changing
:03:42. > :03:45.circumstances and responses. This tells us a lot about her philosophy.
:03:46. > :03:49.She said these low interest rates have hit low income earners who have
:03:50. > :03:52.seen their savings suffer, and uses those are the sort of people who
:03:53. > :03:57.feel disaffected and were more likely to vote out in the Brexit
:03:58. > :04:01.vote. She was saying her big message today was that vote on the 23rd of
:04:02. > :04:06.June was not just about leaving the European Union, it was a cry of
:04:07. > :04:10.desperation from people who feel alienated from the system and that
:04:11. > :04:15.it is those people that she wants to champion and it is those people she
:04:16. > :04:20.says are leading her to try and redefine the centre ground of
:04:21. > :04:22.British politics. We will pick-up on that in a moment.
:04:23. > :04:24.Most leaders appeal to the centre ground.
:04:25. > :04:25.Some leaders create the centre ground.
:04:26. > :04:28.Theresa May was in no doubt which one she wants to be.
:04:29. > :04:31.She attempted to stride the harbour - like the medieval vision
:04:32. > :04:33.of Colossus - left foot firmly in praise
:04:34. > :04:35.of state intervention, right foot placed on the pulse
:04:36. > :04:39.It was a big gesture - and a towering presence of a speech
:04:40. > :04:41.which name checked not just Cameron, Major and Thatcher
:04:42. > :04:47.Miliband and McDonnell may well have heard echoes - or more
:04:48. > :04:52.But as any classics scholar will tell you, Colossus snapped
:04:53. > :04:56.at the knees as an earthquake sent the statue tumbling to the ground.
:04:57. > :04:59.So tonight, we ask the big question of the May premiership.
:05:00. > :05:09.And can she remain upright in her attempts to occupy so much of it?
:05:10. > :05:18.First, a reminder that perhaps not all of Theresa May's vision is
:05:19. > :05:26.entirely new. To stand up for the week and to
:05:27. > :05:30.stand up to the strong. He may be strong at standing up to the week,
:05:31. > :05:37.but he's always weak when it comes to standing up against the strong. A
:05:38. > :05:44.director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the
:05:45. > :05:50.company pension is about to go bust. Under Labour there will be no more
:05:51. > :05:54.Philip Greens at all. Our lower skilled workers with less education
:05:55. > :05:59.to compete directly against vulnerable American workers and they
:06:00. > :06:04.are hurting a lot of our people that cannot get jobs. Someone who finds
:06:05. > :06:10.themselves out of work or on lower wages because of low skilled
:06:11. > :06:15.immigration, life simply doesn't seem fair. We need is an economy
:06:16. > :06:20.with that works for every part of this country so that no community is
:06:21. > :06:29.left behind. To build a country that works for everyone, not just the
:06:30. > :06:34.privileged few. We mean -- we need to make sure that our economy works
:06:35. > :06:41.for everyone, not just those at the top. Clement Attlee, with a vision
:06:42. > :06:47.to build a great institution. Clement Attlee who presided over a
:06:48. > :06:51.great Labour government. That is why when markets are functional we
:06:52. > :06:54.should be prepared to intervene. Some people blame the companies but
:06:55. > :06:58.ultimately, I don't think that is where the blame lies. I think it
:06:59. > :07:02.lies with government on not having the strength to take it on. Not
:07:03. > :07:15.having stood up to the powerful interests. Lots of echoes there, if
:07:16. > :07:16.you think you have heard it all before, you might have heard some of
:07:17. > :07:18.it before. George Freeman is Theresa May's
:07:19. > :07:28.designated thinker, I want to come onto the philosophy
:07:29. > :07:31.that you and she are setting out, but just a word on the story which
:07:32. > :07:38.Nick brought us there. Does that sound right, the resetting economic
:07:39. > :07:42.policy away from what we have seen, the concert is easing towards
:07:43. > :07:46.something which seems much more Keynesian? Yes, Philip Hammond will
:07:47. > :07:52.set this out in the Autumn Statement. Theresa May has been very
:07:53. > :07:56.clear that this model of bail out the banks and stabilise the economy
:07:57. > :08:00.has had a profound effect on distribution of wealth. Those with
:08:01. > :08:03.assets have done very much better than those without. We have to
:08:04. > :08:09.listen to the roar that we heard this year and we have to think that
:08:10. > :08:12.with money available at 0%, we want to drive industrial strategy and get
:08:13. > :08:16.infrastructure built, we have to make sure we have all the mechanisms
:08:17. > :08:22.to make sure money flows properly. So this is a green light to all
:08:23. > :08:26.things we can expect to come? I don't know about all the things. If
:08:27. > :08:30.we are to build a model of economic growth with opportunities, creates
:08:31. > :08:34.hope that through the pain of getting through the debt crisis that
:08:35. > :08:37.there is growth and sustainable growth for tomorrow, and the people
:08:38. > :08:44.in places that have been left behind, and see infrastructure and
:08:45. > :08:49.opportunity. Does she shut off the QE tap? It is up to the Bank of
:08:50. > :08:53.England to set out with their mandate how they handle that, but
:08:54. > :08:55.she is signalling loud and clear that we have to understand what
:08:56. > :09:00.affect this model of growth has had for those who are paying for it, the
:09:01. > :09:05.citizens of this country, and we have to make sure the economy works
:09:06. > :09:11.for them. OK, let's get the big speech. There is talk of the quiet
:09:12. > :09:15.revolution but it was not quite at all, Brexit, it is the biggest thing
:09:16. > :09:21.to happen to this country in decades. It was certainly a
:09:22. > :09:27.revolution. There was a moment of shock. She has done three big
:09:28. > :09:32.things, firstly to signal we heard it, we heard that shock and the roar
:09:33. > :09:36.behind it. Yes, people have voted to leave the EU but we are also hearing
:09:37. > :09:39.something else and we cover this party, are listening. She was rates
:09:40. > :09:44.clear that we will be reformers and we will put in place the change to
:09:45. > :09:49.deal with it. Secondly, when you think of the division in the spring
:09:50. > :09:54.in this country and the Conservative Party, she has unified us and she is
:09:55. > :09:58.talking about unity of the country, Scotland, Northern Ireland, England
:09:59. > :10:04.and Wales. But this was a big land grab. Ed Miliband will have heard
:10:05. > :10:09.echoes of many of his speeches, even the predator speech which he was
:10:10. > :10:13.condemned for and Aaron Banks said she has relabelled the Conservative
:10:14. > :10:18.Party as Ukip. Does that make you happy? Not at all. She has signalled
:10:19. > :10:23.that we will go into the territories that Labour have abandoned. Labour
:10:24. > :10:28.have abandoned their working-class roots and Ukip are stealing a march.
:10:29. > :10:33.She mentioned the working class seven times. Who are the working
:10:34. > :10:39.class? She was also cleared to call out the sneering dismissal of the
:10:40. > :10:44.basic needs, desires and aspirations of the working class. She meant it
:10:45. > :10:47.in a very generous way... But who is that? They work and want the simple
:10:48. > :10:53.things in life. They want to know they are not being taken for
:10:54. > :10:57.granted. But are they the same as alarm clock Britain or the strivers
:10:58. > :11:02.or the hard-working families? Is she talking about a different set or is
:11:03. > :11:07.it another word? Why does she bring class back into it? I think she is
:11:08. > :11:11.trying to make clear that there is a cohort of people in this country, I
:11:12. > :11:15.don't think she was meaning anything derogatory at all, there is a group
:11:16. > :11:19.of people in this country who have tightened their belts, spend less,
:11:20. > :11:22.worked harder. Many families, everyone in the family working and
:11:23. > :11:26.this model of growth has not been working for them and she is
:11:27. > :11:32.absolutely determined, if the Labour Party are to abandon them, we will
:11:33. > :11:36.not. You think you can talk tough on immigration. Some language has been
:11:37. > :11:42.called xenophobic and you can appeal to the left, if you like, the
:11:43. > :11:45.traditional left? Banker I completely reject. Xenophobia has
:11:46. > :11:51.come from Ukip, filling the space which has been left by the Labour
:11:52. > :11:56.Party and this model of growth. The third thing today's she has put
:11:57. > :12:03.herself up there with a speech, a vision, omission, we have now got to
:12:04. > :12:06.it into policy and deliver it. She is signalling that we will go to the
:12:07. > :12:09.next stage and make sure everyone can play in this game, not just the
:12:10. > :12:11.few. Thank you. But enough for a moment from us -
:12:12. > :12:14.the journalists and speechwriters and commentators -
:12:15. > :12:16.the newly-named and shamed What of all those she was really
:12:17. > :12:20.appealing to with this speech? John Sweeney gathered
:12:21. > :12:22.a roomful of Labour voters, Tory voters, Remainers
:12:23. > :12:46.and Brexiteers in Birmingham. Six Birmingham people in a room,
:12:47. > :12:56.Stuart Hansen, Ukip activist. Jackie Cummins, floating voter. An
:12:57. > :13:08.economics student labour, a doctor, Tori. A floating voter and a Tory
:13:09. > :13:14.who voted for Brexit. Theresa started them up all right. Do we
:13:15. > :13:21.have a plan for Brexit? We do. Are we ready for the effort it will take
:13:22. > :13:23.to see it through? We are. Can Boris Johnson stay on message for a full
:13:24. > :13:31.four days? LAUGHTER
:13:32. > :13:41.She is not Ken Dodd but she had a go. A relaxed feel. You felt relaxed
:13:42. > :13:46.listening to her. She was more relaxed in last year's conference
:13:47. > :13:50.speech I thought when she was Home Secretary. There was more of levity
:13:51. > :14:00.this time round and I think she is comfortable in the she is in now.
:14:01. > :14:05.We are truly the party of the workers, of public servants, of the
:14:06. > :14:12.NHS. APPLAUSE
:14:13. > :14:15.It was interesting the way she has taken the Conservative Party more
:14:16. > :14:22.into the middle. Talking about social fairness and justice. And
:14:23. > :14:28.wanting to be able to reach both parts of the Conservative Party as
:14:29. > :14:33.never before. Surely this is bad news for Labour? Stealing their
:14:34. > :14:40.boats? It is a huge risk for Labour, stealing Labour's clobazam language.
:14:41. > :14:46.At the same time, with all of the language, I think Labour voters are
:14:47. > :14:50.intentionally Labour Ukip inclined and she has thrown red meat to the
:14:51. > :14:57.traditional Tory voters. I would agree, there was a lot of rehashing
:14:58. > :15:01.of old policies and mantras without necessarily the substance behind it.
:15:02. > :15:07.Come with me and we will write that brighter future, we will make that
:15:08. > :15:14.change. What is a verdict of the Birmingham judges? It was delivered
:15:15. > :15:20.well. It came across well. I would have to say she is nothing like
:15:21. > :15:27.David Cameron, which is a positive. Jackie, you voted for Labour in the
:15:28. > :15:30.past? I have, yes. Did she rock your boat? She did and I am waiting to
:15:31. > :15:38.see what she can deliver, if she can stand to her word. Well delivered,
:15:39. > :15:43.she was pitching to Labour voters strongly and she sounded like the
:15:44. > :15:47.last Labour manifesto. The test if she can deliver it. I thought you
:15:48. > :15:58.set had very clear visions of the revival of the nation. I was a
:15:59. > :16:05.little bit enamoured, shall we say! You used to be Lib Dem? Where you
:16:06. > :16:08.turn on and off? Middle ground. She came across reasonably well, but
:16:09. > :16:14.parts of the speech were a little bit soppy. I thought your priorities
:16:15. > :16:19.are uniting the country that needs to go through a lot of change and
:16:20. > :16:25.she got that across really well. Soppy? Yes, the Brownlee brothers,
:16:26. > :16:29.that is a great story to watch. As other competitors ran past, he
:16:30. > :16:38.stopped, reached out his hand. And gently carried him home. I thought,
:16:39. > :16:45.pass me the sick bucket! To sum up, thumbs-up?
:16:46. > :16:47.LAUGHTER I could not count those films! We
:16:48. > :16:49.will come back to that later. Joining me now, Julian Glover,
:16:50. > :16:51.former speechwriter and Jonathan Friedland
:16:52. > :17:01.from the Guardian. Julian, you have written speeches
:17:02. > :17:06.were David Cameron, how do you see this? A brave speech? Certainly
:17:07. > :17:09.break, a great success, she came across as somebody who really
:17:10. > :17:12.believed what she was saying, this is something she has been storing up
:17:13. > :17:16.many years, she has finally get the chance to get it over and she said
:17:17. > :17:20.that well and interrupted her own applause at times, it was not
:17:21. > :17:22.completely fluent but heartfelt and it will have impressed voters and
:17:23. > :17:34.had extremely strong ideas at the core and that
:17:35. > :17:38.helps the speech. You told us earlier you thought it was rather
:17:39. > :17:40.cowardly? In the form that it deposited itself as a uniting
:17:41. > :17:42.speech, everyone, this party is but everyone in Britain and it created a
:17:43. > :17:44.character of immediate predecessors, George Osborne, David Cameron, the
:17:45. > :17:47.liberal elite, people like myself and Jonathan, were accused of having
:17:48. > :17:54.sneered at the working class. And Melanie, also! I am outnumbered! I
:17:55. > :17:59.think we all fall into the metropolitan elite somehow and we
:18:00. > :18:02.have to just... Confess and move on! But the call of that but he did
:18:03. > :18:06.suggest there was a group of people who somehow meant harm to Britain
:18:07. > :18:10.and she is speaking for a fresh centre ground and she reinvented the
:18:11. > :18:13.centre ground. That was a little bit cowardly and not a fair description
:18:14. > :18:21.of her predecessors but in terms of ideas it was strong. You are Times
:18:22. > :18:24.columnist, that is very establishment by the judgment of
:18:25. > :18:29.most people, do you think this speech reached the heart of Britain?
:18:30. > :18:33.I think she has put her finger on an important point, that the division
:18:34. > :18:37.now is not between left and right, these are meaningless concept and it
:18:38. > :18:41.is not between parties, any more, it is within parties and the great
:18:42. > :18:46.division, and it has been like this for at least three decades, she is a
:18:47. > :18:50.first politician to articulate this, the great division is between
:18:51. > :18:51.putting the individual first, myself, my lifestyle, I cannot tell
:18:52. > :19:05.anybody else how to live, my culture is no
:19:06. > :19:08.better than anybody else, it is liberal internationalism that were
:19:09. > :19:09.part of a brotherhood of man, there is something unsavoury about the
:19:10. > :19:11.nation and the particular and identifying with a particular
:19:12. > :19:14.community with a particular nation and particular culture... What are
:19:15. > :19:18.you saying that people are not allowed to admit to? Were not
:19:19. > :19:20.allowed to identify with the particulars of the nation expressing
:19:21. > :19:26.itself through democratic self-governance. This is until
:19:27. > :19:30.Brexit, reflecting a particular culture, tradition, set of
:19:31. > :19:36.traditions, religion, literature and the rest of it. Do you think that
:19:37. > :19:43.has been dead and? And left and right have been complicit, an unholy
:19:44. > :19:46.Alliance, on the left, what I would call social liberalism,
:19:47. > :19:52.internationalism, and on the right, economic liberalism, and both have
:19:53. > :19:56.put the individual alone at the heart of politics. This is quiet
:19:57. > :20:01.revolution? Melanie is projecting her own and issues. This is not
:20:02. > :20:06.necessarily what Theresa May signed up for, a nation without patriotism,
:20:07. > :20:12.until June 23, and then we switched onto some other people. David
:20:13. > :20:16.Cameron, he would have spoken in collective terms of his predecessors
:20:17. > :20:21.also. This was a very big deal, this speech. It was formidable and a very
:20:22. > :20:27.effective speech. And a chartered a lot of ideas. The big one for me
:20:28. > :20:31.was, here is the second woman Prime Minister breaking from the view of
:20:32. > :20:35.the first one, touching on individualism, there is more towards
:20:36. > :20:39.us and individuals, there is a society and it really does include
:20:40. > :20:44.the state so this was a plea for active interventionist government.
:20:45. > :20:48.Ed Miliband, Heseltine could have delivered it. We have this admission
:20:49. > :20:56.there will be a Keynesian economic policy. Was this essentially
:20:57. > :21:00.borrowed... The editor of the Daily Mail could have written other chunks
:21:01. > :21:07.of this! It was remarkably clever or means nothing? Things are changing.
:21:08. > :21:11.And the old labels, things fall apart, so the centre cannot hold, it
:21:12. > :21:15.is being reformed before our eyes about where politics lies. I guess
:21:16. > :21:20.she would just be the Prime Minister for Brexit? And she is trying hard
:21:21. > :21:25.not to be that. She has, in strongly and sensibly with the first speech,
:21:26. > :21:29.the good that the state can do, that is a powerful idea. Because that
:21:30. > :21:33.Melanie is referring to is the big debate in politics at the moment is
:21:34. > :21:38.inside the Conservative party between George Osborne and everybody
:21:39. > :21:42.else in the Cabinet agreeing with Theresa May. Open versus closed.
:21:43. > :21:47.George Osborne should be the leader, quite frankly. That is the division,
:21:48. > :21:51.social liberalism versus nation and community and the poor, for whom the
:21:52. > :21:56.left are supposed to stand for, have been left high and dry by economic
:21:57. > :22:00.and social liberalism. We need community. Labour has set its face
:22:01. > :22:04.against this, saying people who stand up community in the sense of
:22:05. > :22:09.the nation by xenophobic, bigoted and all the rest of it and Brexit
:22:10. > :22:13.was a result of those people against the sneering metropolitan
:22:14. > :22:18.intelligentsia. You are painting the idea of the people had an issue of
:22:19. > :22:22.migration, that has automatically been branded and that is not right,
:22:23. > :22:26.you can believe still in the nation, you don't have to sign up for the
:22:27. > :22:30.rest of what you describe. This point of believe and remain
:22:31. > :22:36.distinction is the big fault line in politics within parties and outside.
:22:37. > :22:41.That does go to open and closed. People who to be independent of the
:22:42. > :22:45.EU, to restore them a chronic -- democratic self-governance have been
:22:46. > :22:51.called xenophobic. Nothing to do with immigration... The word was
:22:52. > :22:57.parochial. The first term I had the word being used without it being
:22:58. > :23:00.derogatory. She has a word about -- she has a point about the
:23:01. > :23:07.metropolitan elite? Representing areas of Britain that have been
:23:08. > :23:11.ignored. For me, it'll be the people in the outer suburbs of times like
:23:12. > :23:15.Derby, seats like North East Derbyshire Newal Road I live, is it
:23:16. > :23:19.the Conservative Party nearly one, traditionally Labour, quite right
:23:20. > :23:21.wing in many cultural attitudes, Labour has walked away from that
:23:22. > :23:27.seat and the Conservative party has a chance and I think it is true that
:23:28. > :23:32.at the glossiness and the London angle of politics did not speak for
:23:33. > :23:40.those people. She wants to be defined by being non-London? In the
:23:41. > :23:44.way that people find very reassuring. The word parochial is
:23:45. > :23:48.interesting because parochial as Bilic of abuse but there are huge
:23:49. > :23:52.swathes of people for whom the parish and the community is where
:23:53. > :24:00.their whole lives and well-being are rated. The famous metropolitan
:24:01. > :24:05.intelligentsia... They are not linked that way. Let us not pretend
:24:06. > :24:09.this is a new device, to reel against the hated elite. There is
:24:10. > :24:12.something of the strawman in this, the idea of the elite on their
:24:13. > :24:17.yachts but they are also the same people who are also liberal on
:24:18. > :24:23.social issues. It is a very convenient device. It can be the
:24:24. > :24:27.many against the very few. It is the self, I am making money and free to
:24:28. > :24:33.live exactly as I choose and to hell with everybody else. That is -- that
:24:34. > :24:36.is an entirely on their representation at David Cameron, he
:24:37. > :24:40.talked about the big society, he worked for these things and it is
:24:41. > :24:45.unfair to say that Cameron and Osborne, that legacy and Tony Blair
:24:46. > :24:49.and Gordon Brown, that people dying. It has been airbrushed. It is a
:24:50. > :24:57.little bit and we have record employment here, and with people
:24:58. > :25:01.from the UK. I think they will challenge Theresa May with some of
:25:02. > :25:05.the easy promises that might be made to people are not delivered, she did
:25:06. > :25:07.not talk about the deficit. We have run out of time. I am so sorry!
:25:08. > :25:10.Thank you all so much. One reason there appears to be
:25:11. > :25:13.so much centre ground, of course, is the absence of what she sees
:25:14. > :25:15.as any workable opposition. She dubbed Labour
:25:16. > :25:17.the new nasty party. And she made a clear appeal to Ukip
:25:18. > :25:21.- a party who as of today - cannot even say for sure
:25:22. > :25:23.who leads it. After Diane James quit less
:25:24. > :25:26.than three weeks into the job - the party is wondering
:25:27. > :25:28.what or who comes next. Steven Woolfe - who memorably missed
:25:29. > :25:31.the deadline last time around - has thrown his hat into
:25:32. > :25:33.the ring today. Aaron Banks, the businessman who has
:25:34. > :25:36.bankrolled Ukip in recent years I asked him about the lack
:25:37. > :25:41.of authority that Diane James complained about in her resignation
:25:42. > :25:44.letter. Well, I think it has been clear
:25:45. > :25:49.to everybody that there is a rift in the party and we have this time
:25:50. > :25:53.of faction led by Neil Hamilton and They made his life very difficult,
:25:54. > :26:00.particularly in the referendum. And it was those two
:26:01. > :26:03.who made her life difficult, was it? I wouldn't say that exactly,
:26:04. > :26:07.but what I would say is she got elected on the idea of her reform
:26:08. > :26:09.agenda, which she obviously felt So for the party to go forward
:26:10. > :26:14.there is going to have to be You talked about a new direction,
:26:15. > :26:19.a kind of momentum for the right. Is that where you would still
:26:20. > :26:21.like to go? As a result of the referendum
:26:22. > :26:23.campaign, we had nearly And we think that is quite
:26:24. > :26:30.powerful and we certainly If you look at what is happening
:26:31. > :26:35.in Italy with the Five Star movement, I think there
:26:36. > :26:37.is still scope for an online movement but you would really have
:26:38. > :26:40.to say to yourself, if you looked to Theresa May's speech today,
:26:41. > :26:43.it was really Nigel Farage It is all the policies he has been
:26:44. > :26:47.condemned for for a very long time. And what it does show is that
:26:48. > :26:51.in the end, pressure does pay off, particularly if it has
:26:52. > :26:53.got public support. So she is stealing your
:26:54. > :26:55.voters, pretty much? I don't know whether
:26:56. > :26:58.she is stealing. She has basically today rebranded
:26:59. > :27:03.the Conservative Party Ukip. Many people would say
:27:04. > :27:12.he is but I don't think he is. He got in with some very
:27:13. > :27:14.specific objectives, If the Tories have adopted Ukip,
:27:15. > :27:21.you don't need to exist? If you look at the General Election,
:27:22. > :27:26.Ukip finished second all over the north, in places the Tories
:27:27. > :27:30.cannot possibly win. And, in fact, the analysis
:27:31. > :27:32.of the General Election result showed that it was Ukip votes
:27:33. > :27:35.in marginal seats that gave So I think there is a huge
:27:36. > :27:43.opportunity to take on the Labour Party and actually
:27:44. > :27:46.make a huge difference. It is jolly weird when somebody
:27:47. > :27:49.like Steven Woolfe, who today said he is standing, nearly defected
:27:50. > :27:54.to the Tories himself? Politics nowadays is
:27:55. > :27:57.pretty weird, isn't it? Give us a sense of who
:27:58. > :28:00.you are backing. I don't blame him, by the way,
:28:01. > :28:03.in a sense because it was treated In the last leadership election
:28:04. > :28:11.he was not allowed to put his name forward because his forms were 17
:28:12. > :28:13.minutes late, despite the fact he had been trying
:28:14. > :28:17.all day to submit them. So this is all about personality
:28:18. > :28:19.rifts and not policy rifts? I think the party has
:28:20. > :28:27.to professionalise, it has to get its act together,
:28:28. > :28:30.but Steven Woolfe could actually do that, particularly in the Labour
:28:31. > :28:35.heartlands, he is I know the media like to write off
:28:36. > :28:39.Ukip but Ukip have fundamentally I don't think anyone is writing
:28:40. > :28:45.you off but we are Your money would follow Steven
:28:46. > :28:47.Wolfe? I will back the party
:28:48. > :28:53.if it is reformed and has You called the last lot out
:28:54. > :29:00.of their depth in a paddling pool. Can I ask if it was Susanne Evans
:29:01. > :29:04.or Paul Nuttall or Raheem Kassam, I think Steven Woolfe is the one
:29:05. > :29:11.candidate who could do it. So without Steven Woolfe, basically,
:29:12. > :29:14.Aaron Banks' money isn't in Ukip, He is going to win overwhelmingly
:29:15. > :29:21.so I don't think it is really Can you rule yourself out
:29:22. > :29:30.of the contest? I don't think Ukip needs
:29:31. > :29:32.a leader that is more For all the bad press it gets,
:29:33. > :29:41.the financial services industry employs more than a million people
:29:42. > :29:44.in this country - indeed - it's something we do well -
:29:45. > :29:47.most of the world's biggest banks A scheme called passporting allows
:29:48. > :29:52.them to trade all over Europe, and the worry up till now has been
:29:53. > :29:56.what happens after we leave the EU. Well, the City, it seems,
:29:57. > :29:58.is putting its faith Adam Parsons asks if it really
:29:59. > :30:06.is the answer, and crucially if our European friends really
:30:07. > :30:22.want to help London. Are there cracks appearing
:30:23. > :30:25.in the City of London, the very heart of our
:30:26. > :30:30.financial services industry? This place has known some heady
:30:31. > :30:34.times and some very public crises. But it remains an incredible machine
:30:35. > :30:37.for generating billions But now the future is
:30:38. > :30:46.becoming rather confused. The industry is facing huge,
:30:47. > :30:49.almost existential, questions We will be hit in two
:30:50. > :30:57.years down the road. The problem at the moment
:30:58. > :31:02.is we don't quite know We don't know where we are going
:31:03. > :31:07.to end up and we don't know So why all those nervous
:31:08. > :31:17.looks and furrowed brows? It's the system that
:31:18. > :31:24.lets our financial institutions - that's everything from insurance
:31:25. > :31:27.giants to hedge funds and our big famous banks operate
:31:28. > :31:31.easily across Europe. It means that a Spanish
:31:32. > :31:36.bank can work in Italy or an Italian insurance giant can
:31:37. > :31:38.sell its products But the biggest beneficiary has been
:31:39. > :31:41.Britain. Companies come from all over
:31:42. > :31:49.the world to base themselves here. Partly because of the access
:31:50. > :31:52.that passporting gives It is a system that has
:31:53. > :31:56.worked pretty seamlessly. Pull out of the EU and you pull
:31:57. > :32:04.out of passporting. With no certainty about
:32:05. > :32:08.what will follow. Well, if you walk the halls
:32:09. > :32:10.of offices in the city or in Canary Wharf right now,
:32:11. > :32:13.of course there is a lot Just as there is across the economy
:32:14. > :32:18.and society in general because we just don't
:32:19. > :32:22.know what Brexit means. Is it a soft Brexit, a hard Brexit,
:32:23. > :32:32.what are the implications of that? If passporting is not an option,
:32:33. > :32:35.then some believe there is still a way through the fractures,
:32:36. > :32:37.and it is a process It is about proving that
:32:38. > :32:44.a country's system of laws, rules and regulations
:32:45. > :32:46.is the equivalent of those that govern countries
:32:47. > :32:50.across the European Union. Do you, for instance, have the same
:32:51. > :32:53.rules about foreign exchange trading Prove all that and you can
:32:54. > :33:03.finally claim equivalence. And a license to
:33:04. > :33:07.trade across Europe. The point about equivalence is it
:33:08. > :33:10.does the job of passporting Because these firms have the right
:33:11. > :33:18.to sell into the single market on the same terms as anyone
:33:19. > :33:23.in the single market. The problem is, it is relatively
:33:24. > :33:30.untested, untried and untested. And the rules, essentially,
:33:31. > :33:33.once we leave the EU, Equivalence has to be granted
:33:34. > :33:39.by the European Commission so it is not guaranteed
:33:40. > :33:44.and it is not timely. More than 30 countries from all over
:33:45. > :33:47.the world have already Seeing as our regulations
:33:48. > :33:51.are based on European laws, It looks easy but when Switzerland
:33:52. > :33:57.tried to do it, they couldn't. We shouldn't kid ourselves
:33:58. > :33:59.that it is going to be Of course, I hope that it
:34:00. > :34:04.will be easy. But I just sense that the Germans
:34:05. > :34:07.and the French are particularly keen on making all sorts of statements
:34:08. > :34:11.about how big financial institutions will be terribly welcome
:34:12. > :34:16.in Frankfurt and Paris. By definition, equivalence
:34:17. > :34:19.is all about following European legislation and that creates
:34:20. > :34:22.an important question. So what happens if European
:34:23. > :34:29.regulators want to bring in new rules that we don't want
:34:30. > :34:34.and don't agree with? If we end up signing up
:34:35. > :34:37.to all the same things that we had before, all those people who said
:34:38. > :34:41.they wanted to leave to try to get around things like the bankers'
:34:42. > :34:43.bonuses provision that was imposed upon us by Europe may find that
:34:44. > :34:48.we're still going to have to comply with that in order to get access
:34:49. > :34:54.to the European market. One of the leading academics behind
:34:55. > :35:00.the Brexit campaign insists it's about choice - that we should
:35:01. > :35:03.embrace equivalence but also be prepared to walk away
:35:04. > :35:07.if the rules change. The EU has not a very good track
:35:08. > :35:12.record in the way it treats We have had proposals
:35:13. > :35:17.for the financial transactions tax, we have had things
:35:18. > :35:20.like the bonus cap. All of which are hostile,
:35:21. > :35:23.really, to what they regard The basic point is, actually,
:35:24. > :35:29.from the point of view of the city and the national interest,
:35:30. > :35:33.we don't care. He thinks the city will prosper
:35:34. > :35:35.regardless, but with no equivalence deal in place,
:35:36. > :35:38.plenty of financiers I have spoken They are making sure that whatever
:35:39. > :35:45.happens in negotiations that go forward, and we don't know
:35:46. > :35:47.how they will play out, that they will continue
:35:48. > :35:49.to serve their customers. All of the banks, the international
:35:50. > :35:53.banks and the UK banks, are making contingency plans to make
:35:54. > :35:56.sure that they can carry on serving their customers
:35:57. > :35:58.across Europe in terms of looking at what operations they might have
:35:59. > :36:01.to move to other The UK relies on its financial
:36:02. > :36:06.services more than any Trade with European companies
:36:07. > :36:11.and governments has been And that is why
:36:12. > :36:16.negotiations will be tough. The moving parts here
:36:17. > :36:20.are absolutely staggering. And I think it is going to take time
:36:21. > :36:24.and I think it is going to take goodwill on both sides
:36:25. > :36:26.to make this work. But I would also say that for the UK
:36:27. > :36:30.and for the EU, there are still massive incentives to find
:36:31. > :36:33.a solution that works All the while, the Brexit countdown
:36:34. > :36:42.goes on and the longer we go without a deal,
:36:43. > :36:47.the more that nerves will fray. We know there is a strong
:36:48. > :36:52.possibility it is going to be a hard We will start to get really hurt
:36:53. > :36:58.and get really nervous Right now, we're putting boards
:36:59. > :37:04.in front of our windows to make sure We understand that
:37:05. > :37:08.our alternatives are. One senior banker told me these
:37:09. > :37:16.will be the negotiations The city is the financial capital
:37:17. > :37:23.of the world and right now it is having to deal
:37:24. > :37:25.with a changing, To the unsuspecting ear,
:37:26. > :37:35.the hits of Michael Jackson, George Benson and other soul stars
:37:36. > :37:39.might have come from the heartlands In fact, many of them
:37:40. > :37:45.owe their origins to the hardscrabble, bluesy
:37:46. > :37:48.delta of...Lincolnshire. They were written by
:37:49. > :37:51.Cleethorpes's own Rod Temperton, whose death was announced
:37:52. > :38:12.today, just 66. He said, I want to put a harp on the
:38:13. > :38:21.front of it. I said to Rod, if you do that, no one will play it.
:38:22. > :38:25.American soul radio will not play it and radio one will not do it because
:38:26. > :38:33.it does not fit any genre. He said, that is why I want to do it. It is
:38:34. > :38:38.the great untold story of pop that almost everyone has heard by now,
:38:39. > :38:44.the maestro of black music who turns out to have been a pallid fish
:38:45. > :38:49.batter from Cleethorpes. Quincey always talks about thinking I must
:38:50. > :38:57.have been black, before he met me, because of the music of Heatwave.
:38:58. > :39:03.Jones was looking for a writer for Michael Jackson's first solo album.
:39:04. > :39:06.One night we were in the studio working and the phone call came
:39:07. > :39:12.through. I was really shocked because this was a guy I used to
:39:13. > :39:19.listen to his records on Saturday afternoons in Cleethorpes with my
:39:20. > :39:27.mates. I was really flattered. # rock with you... The whole thing
:39:28. > :39:32.took two weekends and the whole thing was amazing. By the time it
:39:33. > :39:38.was over Quincey and I have become such buddies and he said I want you
:39:39. > :39:51.to work never think I am doing, so I said, OK, great. Those albums, the
:39:52. > :39:55.Dude and Give Me The Night were just amazing records to make because
:39:56. > :40:00.there were so many people involved. Everybody is giving it up and it is
:40:01. > :40:12.just a lot of fun to be involved in a situation like that. Rod Temperton
:40:13. > :40:16.also wrote Michael Jackson's Thriller, including a wrap for
:40:17. > :40:22.Vincent Price scribbled in the back of a cab. I am frantically writing
:40:23. > :40:27.in the back and when I got to the studio I saw this limousine pulled
:40:28. > :40:31.up to the front and out stepped Vincent Price. I said to be cab
:40:32. > :40:37.driver go round the back, so we raced round the back. I jumped out,
:40:38. > :40:42.went through the back door, grabbed hold of a secretary and said,
:40:43. > :40:47.photocopy this, quick! I raced through and that it on the music
:40:48. > :40:55.stands and Vincent walked in and just hit it, two takes. Darkness
:40:56. > :41:01.falls across the land, the midnight hour is close at hand, creatures
:41:02. > :41:08.crawl in the search of blood, to terrorise your neighbourhood. I
:41:09. > :41:13.remember when Michael Jackson toured England, either the Daily Mirror or
:41:14. > :41:19.the Sun sent reporters up to my hometown. There was a great headline
:41:20. > :41:25.and I have still got it: Grimsby fish the litter wheels in to Ashman
:41:26. > :41:30.reels in fortune for what code Dzeko!
:41:31. > :41:34.Remembering the music of Rod Temperton.
:41:35. > :41:37.We leave you with Theresa May's Birmingham peroration.
:41:38. > :41:39.We weren't sure it was clear enough quite what the takeaway was,
:41:40. > :41:46.So to everyone here this morning, and the millions beyond, whether
:41:47. > :41:49.Leavers or Remain, I say, come with me and we'll write
:41:50. > :41:52.Come with me and we'll make that change.
:41:53. > :42:00.# And you'll be in a world of pure imagination...#.
:42:01. > :42:02.Come with me if you want to live.
:42:03. > :42:17.Come with me and together let's seize the day.
:42:18. > :42:20.MUSIC: Mr Blue Sky by ELO.