:00:00. > :00:00.EVAN DAVIS ON TANNOY: With no apologies for any
:00:07. > :00:09.inconvenience caused, the delayed arrival of a Government
:00:10. > :00:16.decision on Heathrow is at last due any day now.
:00:17. > :00:18.The signs appear to suggest that Heathrow will get
:00:19. > :00:23.But that could be the beginning of an argument, not the end of one.
:00:24. > :00:26.If we go down the Heathrow route, it won't be delivered.
:00:27. > :00:28.There are four very powerful councils, joined by a number
:00:29. > :00:31.of others, I understand, today, who are going to put a lot
:00:32. > :00:33.of resources into taking the government to court on noise
:00:34. > :00:39.There are planning risks which are unique to Heathrow.
:00:40. > :00:42.Also tonight: Footballer Ched Evans walks from court acquitted of rape,
:00:43. > :00:45.but apologising to anyone affected by his actions on that
:00:46. > :00:51.We'll ask what sort of strange culture it is that gets young
:00:52. > :00:58.footballers into such trouble with sex and alcohol.
:00:59. > :01:00.And have a look at this cute little courier bot.
:01:01. > :01:04.A breakthrough in home delivery, or a machine to destroy jobs?
:01:05. > :01:12.I think we should think on taxing robots.
:01:13. > :01:14.Because someone has to pay for our normal life,
:01:15. > :01:16.for the infrastructures, for the services that governments
:01:17. > :01:32.If you think Brexit is controversial, there's one other
:01:33. > :01:34.national issue that has been paralysingly divisive for years -
:01:35. > :01:46.For that long, we've been dodging a decision on where to build extra
:01:47. > :01:49.But any day now, it seems a decision will come.
:01:50. > :01:51.The mood music suggests Heathrow will get a third runway.
:01:52. > :01:53.The Airports Commission supported that option last year,
:01:54. > :01:56.and Brexit has added a certain energy to some of the arguments.
:01:57. > :01:58.You see, it's all about infrastructure now,
:01:59. > :02:11.and reaching out to the world, as Adam Parsons reports.
:02:12. > :02:21.1968, and Britain's love affair with air travel is blooming. So much so
:02:22. > :02:25.that an inquiry is setup to decide where to build a third London
:02:26. > :02:29.airport. 48 years later, we still haven't decided where an extra
:02:30. > :02:30.runway might go. But we do have lots of protesters. But while we struggle
:02:31. > :02:36.Well, runway while we struggle with where to put one runway,
:02:37. > :02:38.China is currently building 30 new airports and
:02:39. > :02:42.But maybe it's not fair to just look at China.
:02:43. > :02:44.Major global transport projects always take a long time to get off
:02:45. > :02:50.The world's longest cable bridge, AVE - Spain's railway network,
:02:51. > :02:53.Portman Bridge in Vancouver, Copenhagen Metro, the Milan-Bologna
:02:54. > :02:56.high-speed railway - just a few extremely large
:02:57. > :03:01.construction projects that appear to have been finished in the time
:03:02. > :03:09.we've been wringing our hands about an airport runway.
:03:10. > :03:16.so, why have we spent decades debating runways that never get
:03:17. > :03:20.built? This is where it all began, the picturesque Buckinghamshire
:03:21. > :03:25.village of Stukeley. Back in 1987 after two years of deliberation, the
:03:26. > :03:31.inquiry decided that Britain's new mega airport should be built right
:03:32. > :03:38.here. Well, this is the original paperwork for the airport. It is in
:03:39. > :03:43.the red box there. You can see more detail on this plan. There no fewer
:03:44. > :03:47.than four different runways were proposed, including the demolition
:03:48. > :03:52.of three different villagers. Including this one, Stukeley and its
:03:53. > :03:57.Norman church. This whole plan caved in under huge pressure in the early
:03:58. > :04:04.70s. And 45 years later, we're still waiting for one let alone four. This
:04:05. > :04:08.is the memorial .my the airport plan foundered on the back of fierce
:04:09. > :04:16.local protests. They planted a wood and built a on court shaped memorial
:04:17. > :04:20.-- a Concorde shape the memorial. In a parallel universe we have been in
:04:21. > :04:24.the middle of Britain's biggest airport, but we are not, we won the
:04:25. > :04:28.campaign. When you threaten peoples homes and way of life, they are
:04:29. > :04:32.looking to how they can defend that, they use every method possible. They
:04:33. > :04:36.use the law to start with an public enquiries. The use getting public
:04:37. > :04:39.opinion behind them, and then as a last ditch they need to protect
:04:40. > :04:44.their homes themselves, and they would have done it. With what? Well,
:04:45. > :04:50.the leaflets going round were about petrol bombs and bows and arrows.
:04:51. > :04:55.Tempers have calm, runways remain on built. But there are clues the
:04:56. > :04:59.Government wants to start spending on these huge bits of
:05:00. > :05:02.infrastructure. To build an economy which works for everyone, we must
:05:03. > :05:06.also invest in the things that matter, the things with a longer
:05:07. > :05:10.term return. That is how we will address the weaknesses in our
:05:11. > :05:17.economy, improve our productivity, increase economic growth and ensure
:05:18. > :05:21.everyone gets a fair share. So, if we are going to spend billions on a
:05:22. > :05:25.runway, who gets it? It is down to Heathrow or Gatwick, with a decision
:05:26. > :05:28.expected shortly and supporters divided. Thousands of people had
:05:29. > :05:32.their lives shortened every year because of poor air quality.
:05:33. > :05:36.Heathrow cannot comply with those limits to which we are legally
:05:37. > :05:40.bound. That is one of the reasons why this will be tied up in the
:05:41. > :05:44.courts for years, whereas you just don't get those thing kind of
:05:45. > :05:47.problems with air quality and noise all with the practicalities of
:05:48. > :05:52.delivering the project, you don't get those with Gatwick. The question
:05:53. > :05:57.is, why try to build a new runway at Heathrow where you could build one
:05:58. > :06:02.at Gatwick in half the time with half the cost and tiny fraction of
:06:03. > :06:06.the environmental impact? Are you still convinced that Heathrow is the
:06:07. > :06:11.right place? I'm convinced, I've always been convinced. As we finally
:06:12. > :06:14.go away in a new global landscape, we need an international hub that
:06:15. > :06:17.can really boost and provide that impetus that this city the country
:06:18. > :06:25.needs. There is no better time. There's been lots of good times, but
:06:26. > :06:30.it to happen now, it has to be Heathrow. But Heathrow is surrounded
:06:31. > :06:33.by the constituencies of high profile Conservatives, including the
:06:34. > :06:36.Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Foreign Secretary. Local
:06:37. > :06:41.politics affecting a huge national issue, they have heard that one in
:06:42. > :06:44.Stukeley. In Tory heartland, Heathrow is probably in Tory
:06:45. > :06:48.heartland as well. But I can't think how a Tory government would have put
:06:49. > :06:52.a major airport like that in the middle of their heartland. This
:06:53. > :07:00.field was once earmarked to be a runway. The airport that never was.
:07:01. > :07:02.A long way off jet speed. Adam Parsons reporting.
:07:03. > :07:04.Earlier this evening, I went down to the constituency
:07:05. > :07:07.office of Tory MP Zac Goldsmith, a recent candidate for the Mayor
:07:08. > :07:10.of London, and also one of the most trenchant critics of a proposed
:07:11. > :07:15.Does he think Heathrow's third runway is now a done deal?
:07:16. > :07:21.I wouldn't be talking to you if I thought it was a done deal.
:07:22. > :07:25.I think that Heathrow has always been the default
:07:26. > :07:26.position for government, not just this government
:07:27. > :07:28.but the last government and the one before.
:07:29. > :07:31.I think the reason for that is that is it was a monopoly
:07:32. > :07:34.for a very long time, the relationship between Heathrow
:07:35. > :07:37.and Government is really very close, to the point of being unhealthy.
:07:38. > :07:40.I remember last year, I was lobbying the Infrastructure Minister,
:07:41. > :07:44.a few months later he became the chairman of Heathrow.
:07:45. > :07:48.You had the head of the Department of Transport who went over to become
:07:49. > :07:52.The head of comms at Heathrow became the head of comms
:07:53. > :07:56.It is hard to know where Heathrow ends and government begins
:07:57. > :08:00.And that is why I think there has always been this lazy default
:08:01. > :08:04.But I think the advantage we have today, I really believe this,
:08:05. > :08:06.is that the Prime Minister has actually called herself
:08:07. > :08:08.a bloody difficult woman, and that is what we need.
:08:09. > :08:11.We need someone who is not just going to be spoon-fed her position
:08:12. > :08:13.by entrenched officials, somebody who is actually
:08:14. > :08:15.going to do the thinking, look at the evidence.
:08:16. > :08:17.And I think we have that in Theresa May.
:08:18. > :08:19.I think we have everything to play for.
:08:20. > :08:21.They have certainly let this Heathrow hare get
:08:22. > :08:24.quite a long way away, if they are going to
:08:25. > :08:27.I'm not going to pretend I would bet my house
:08:28. > :08:30.on the right outcome on Tuesday, whatever the decision is.
:08:31. > :08:32.Certainly, we have time to make the case.
:08:33. > :08:35.I don't expect people in Parliament to care that much about the noise
:08:36. > :08:39.I would love them to but I'm not holding my breath on that.
:08:40. > :08:41.They should care about deliverability but if we cannot
:08:42. > :08:43.deliver this project we are going to be entering
:08:44. > :08:45.the next election and we're going to squabbling
:08:46. > :08:48.You were prominent on the Brexit debate.
:08:49. > :08:50.You got the result you wanted on that.
:08:51. > :08:54.Many people say that actually, that vote tilts the argument,
:08:55. > :08:56.finely balanced as it was when the commission reported,
:08:57. > :08:59.tilts the argument in favour of Heathrow because it is a symbol
:09:00. > :09:05.of outwardness and, if you like, not a metaphor for Britain's
:09:06. > :09:08.hub role in the world but having a big hub airport.
:09:09. > :09:10.That, for me, is an argument in favour of going for
:09:11. > :09:14.Because Gatwick can happen almost immediately.
:09:15. > :09:17.No need for public subsidy, very few controversies surrounding it.
:09:18. > :09:21.If we go for Heathrow, and I am not convinced this
:09:22. > :09:24.is the perfect choice to begin with, but the choice to begin
:09:25. > :09:28.If we go down the Heathrow route, it won't be delivered.
:09:29. > :09:30.There are four very powerful councils joined by a number
:09:31. > :09:33.of others, I understand, today who are going to put a lot
:09:34. > :09:36.of resources into taking the government to court on noise
:09:37. > :09:39.There are planning risks which are unique to Heathrow,
:09:40. > :09:42.there are finance risks and there are cost issues.
:09:43. > :09:44.Heathrow's biggest customer, BA, has said this is undeliverable
:09:45. > :09:52.There is another post-Brexit argument, which is around
:09:53. > :09:56.the relationship between London and the rest of the country.
:09:57. > :10:00.If we're going to have an airport, a bigger airport, extra capacity,
:10:01. > :10:02.that suits the people of Birmingham or potentially
:10:03. > :10:06.the people of Manchester, the shape of Britain makes more
:10:07. > :10:09.sense when the airport is to the north of London rather
:10:10. > :10:14.When it is potentially on a high-speed railway line
:10:15. > :10:15.going to Birmingham or Manchester rather
:10:16. > :10:20.It just makes more sense, doesn't it?
:10:21. > :10:23.I don't disagree with that but then I don't buy into the argument
:10:24. > :10:29.We need a competitive competition sector.
:10:30. > :10:33.Gatwick was liberated seven years ago from the monopoly and no one
:10:34. > :10:35.can pretend it isn't a better airport today.
:10:36. > :10:38.It announced 20 long-haul routes this year, it will announce more
:10:39. > :10:42.For me, the argument of airport hubs is almost obsolete,
:10:43. > :10:45.it is about whether or not you want a hub and I don't think you do,
:10:46. > :10:49.Have you spoken to Boris Johnson about it recently?
:10:50. > :10:51.Because it seems as though the really big news for Heathrow
:10:52. > :10:54.in the last three months has been Boris Johnson is not
:10:55. > :10:58.going to be Prime Minister, because he would certainly have
:10:59. > :11:02.not gone for Heathrow, and he is in the Cabinet
:11:03. > :11:05.and he will shut up and be a loyal member and will not lie down
:11:06. > :11:09.I can make a prediction that Boris, under no circumstances,
:11:10. > :11:11.would ever vote for Heathrow expansion, nor would
:11:12. > :11:15.Both of them are very senior, very valued members of the Cabinet.
:11:16. > :11:17.I speak to both of them regularly, I spoke to Boris
:11:18. > :11:22.There is no wavering in his position and there is no wavering
:11:23. > :11:25.They may not be doing the media rounds, they probably won't be
:11:26. > :11:29.But their positions remain absolutely unchanged.
:11:30. > :11:37.If we get the decision on Tuesday, are you going to resign your
:11:38. > :11:44.You pledged to resign your seat and have a by-election,
:11:45. > :11:52.If there is a green light from Government, I will trigger
:11:53. > :11:59.The process of that, I would rather not go into now
:12:00. > :12:02.because it is not the story, the story is that we have two
:12:03. > :12:08.or three days left to try to kill this threat once and for all and get
:12:09. > :12:11.the Government to see sense, and that has to be my priority.
:12:12. > :12:16.The footballer Ched Evans has been found not guilty of rape
:12:17. > :12:19.in a retrial that ended today with a unanimous verdict
:12:20. > :12:23.It was a huge relief to him and his fans, and his fiancee.
:12:24. > :12:25.But a huge disappointment to many others, who thought the retrial
:12:26. > :12:27.was flawed in that evidence on the victim's character
:12:28. > :12:30.and behaviour was allowed to be submitted.
:12:31. > :12:33.But although he was acquitted, the events of that fateful night
:12:34. > :12:36.at a Premier Inn in North Wales were described in lurid
:12:37. > :12:39.detail in the trial, giving the court a window
:12:40. > :12:43.on an unseemly world in which some young footballers reside.
:12:44. > :12:46.It was conspicuous that in his statement after the trial,
:12:47. > :12:51.read by his lawyer, Ched Evans did feel it appropriate to apologise.
:12:52. > :12:53.Thanks go too to my friends and family.
:12:54. > :13:01.Who chose, perhaps incredibly, to support me in my darkest hour.
:13:02. > :13:05.Whilst my innocence has now been established, I wish to make it clear
:13:06. > :13:08.that I wholeheartedly apologise to anyone who might have been
:13:09. > :13:16.affected by the events of the night in question.
:13:17. > :13:19.Someone who knows a thing or two about the temptations and excesses
:13:20. > :13:21.of footballers is the the actress, EastEnders star, singer
:13:22. > :13:24.and author Michelle Gayle, who was married to footballer
:13:25. > :13:27.Mark Bright for ten years and who has written on this
:13:28. > :13:32.subject in her book, Pride And Premiership.
:13:33. > :13:42.The evening. You had a kind of window onto the culture that Ched
:13:43. > :13:49.Evans was living in with his mates. Did you recognise that culture?
:13:50. > :13:55.Absolutely recognise it. It's hard to explain what it's like as a
:13:56. > :14:00.female, a very pro-female person, to have been going out with a
:14:01. > :14:05.footballer on a night out, and see behaviour of females that you find
:14:06. > :14:11.disconcerting. And it's something that made me write the book, in
:14:12. > :14:17.fact, because I was told when I was inspired to write the book that one
:14:18. > :14:24.year in careers advice meetings, 60% of girls said that they wanted to
:14:25. > :14:30.beat a Wag. When you go -- but they wanted to be a Wag. There are
:14:31. > :14:33.certain number of girls who basically make themselves very
:14:34. > :14:40.readily available. I think it will warp the view of women for those
:14:41. > :14:42.footballers. And this is the culture that is manifesting itself here and
:14:43. > :14:52.now. They get confused? They have a very
:14:53. > :14:57.warped view of females and what females want from them.
:14:58. > :15:01.Consequently, because I have known so many footballers, a lot of them
:15:02. > :15:04.end up marrying their childhood sweetheart who knew them when they
:15:05. > :15:11.were nothing because they cannot trust... Are you using this as an
:15:12. > :15:16.excuse for the footballers and their behaviour? Or an explanation of this
:15:17. > :15:21.contorted world? It is not an excuse, it is just the reality and
:15:22. > :15:26.people can judge this however they want but that is a reality. What are
:15:27. > :15:30.girls getting out of this? Are they wanting one night were getting
:15:31. > :15:36.married or the money? What? I can tell you right now there are groups
:15:37. > :15:42.of footballers who say if you get these girls in this town, all they
:15:43. > :15:45.need is a pair of shoes. Groups tell footballers which girls to call when
:15:46. > :15:51.they go to certain times because you only need to buy them a pair of
:15:52. > :15:55.shoes, which is nothing for a footballer, and does disgust me?
:15:56. > :16:00.Absolutely yes. But we need to educate both sides of the fence. Is
:16:01. > :16:05.this unique to football? You have worked in show business, rock stars
:16:06. > :16:11.have had groupies throwing themselves at them. Absolutely. With
:16:12. > :16:17.footballers, it is unique because they usually becomes signed at such
:16:18. > :16:21.a young age, 16 or 18, there is a lot of arrested development because
:16:22. > :16:26.once they are signed up, literally it is very hard for them to evolve,
:16:27. > :16:31.they tend to stick to the friends they knew before they signed because
:16:32. > :16:37.they feel that as a safe haven so even if they travel the world, which
:16:38. > :16:41.should lead to evolving as a person, they literally stay 18 for a large
:16:42. > :16:46.portion of their life. And they have all the pleasures of teenage... And
:16:47. > :16:50.the same friends are perhaps have not travelled or had the opportunity
:16:51. > :16:58.to evolve and they keep with this very narrow warped sense of what the
:16:59. > :17:02.world is. What can we do? One would suggest that these are teenage lads,
:17:03. > :17:08.women throwing themselves at them and they have a lot of money, it is
:17:09. > :17:12.quite hard if discipline is not instilled to resist these
:17:13. > :17:17.temptations? Is adopted the clubs to say, you have to behave? It is
:17:18. > :17:25.absolutely up to the clubs to educate men. And it is also up to
:17:26. > :17:31.all of us to educate females that there is this massive grey area when
:17:32. > :17:35.it comes to sex and a lot of us do not want to discuss this, we want to
:17:36. > :17:41.make things black-and-white and this case is a prime example of a grey
:17:42. > :17:45.area. She is not a liar, is he totally innocent? Who knows? Can you
:17:46. > :17:50.prove 100% record was guilty? The jury could not. And he was found not
:17:51. > :17:53.guilty. Thank you. One way you can tell
:17:54. > :17:56.whether you are an optimist or a pessimist is to ask
:17:57. > :17:59.whether you think robots are going to make us all rich
:18:00. > :18:02.or rob us all of work. The technology of artificial
:18:03. > :18:03.intelligence is advancing, which means robots can do
:18:04. > :18:05.more complex jobs. For decades, of course,
:18:06. > :18:07.they've performed manual tasks But the white collar work
:18:08. > :18:11.in the offices upstairs This week, the Commons Science
:18:12. > :18:15.and Technology Committee told the Government to reboot
:18:16. > :18:17.its strategy for dealing Could we even have to contemplate
:18:18. > :18:23.making robots pay tax? Here's our Technology
:18:24. > :18:25.Editor, David Grossman. Little robots taking parcels
:18:26. > :18:33.and groceries to the front door. Due to start in Greenwich,
:18:34. > :18:40.London, next year. Up until now, the unpredictable
:18:41. > :18:43.complexity of the real world with its infinite variety of hazards
:18:44. > :18:46.and obstacles meant that the last It's us waiting around at home
:18:47. > :19:05.in a five-hour delivery window. It's so time-consuming
:19:06. > :19:09.and such a waste. Robotics and technology
:19:10. > :19:12.in the current day right now can There's no doubt that this
:19:13. > :19:21.coming wave of automation, of artificial intelligence
:19:22. > :19:24.and robots like this one, is going to deliver huge
:19:25. > :19:28.advantages to society. It's going to transform our lives,
:19:29. > :19:33.make them more convenient. But the question is,
:19:34. > :19:35.is it also going to bring us some problems that society
:19:36. > :19:38.is going to struggle to cope with? With delivery bots, driverless vans,
:19:39. > :19:46.warehouse robots and online retailing, it's possible for a tiny
:19:47. > :19:50.number of people to sew up an entire market that once employed hundreds
:19:51. > :19:55.of thousands or even millions. In previous eras of job destruction,
:19:56. > :20:04.when mechanisation chased farm workers off the land,
:20:05. > :20:08.it also created new and better paid And when muscle work disappeared,
:20:09. > :20:16.we moved in brainwork. But soon, the machines will not only
:20:17. > :20:19.be stronger than us, These are robot handlers,
:20:20. > :20:28.ready to take control if one of the delivery robots
:20:29. > :20:30.gets into trouble. The real worry is about how
:20:31. > :20:33.many of these new jobs One study estimates that 35% of UK
:20:34. > :20:42.jobs will be automated away in ten to 20 years' time,
:20:43. > :20:46.and the jobs that pay under ?30,000 per year are five times more at risk
:20:47. > :20:49.from automation than jobs that Research by McKinsey has warned
:20:50. > :20:56.that this transformation is happening ten times faster
:20:57. > :21:03.and at 300 times the scale Or, in other words, with 3000 times
:21:04. > :21:07.the impact of the changes that These sculptures are perhaps a good
:21:08. > :21:14.metaphor for how most politicians have reacted
:21:15. > :21:18.to the challenge, until now. One idea they're going to be
:21:19. > :21:22.debating here in the European Parliament next month is this -
:21:23. > :21:25.if job-destroying robots are replacing taxpaying humans,
:21:26. > :21:27.well, perhaps we need My proposal is that we monitor
:21:28. > :21:36.exactly what is happening on the job And if robots are taking over more
:21:37. > :21:43.jobs than new jobs are created, we will be, or most of the member
:21:44. > :21:47.states and the governors, will be in a difficult position
:21:48. > :21:50.to collect enough money to finance So, if this is the case,
:21:51. > :21:57.I think we should think Because somebody has to pay
:21:58. > :22:02.for our normal life - for the infrastructures,
:22:03. > :22:04.for the services that governments A company replacing workers
:22:05. > :22:19.with a robot like Baxter here would be relatively
:22:20. > :22:24.straightforward to tax. But this wave of innovation is not
:22:25. > :22:33.all about the physical world. Much of this revolution, though,
:22:34. > :22:37.is taking place out of sight - inside reassuringly familiar-looking
:22:38. > :22:43.computer cases and server racks. But these new machines
:22:44. > :22:47.are learning and thinking. And learning and thinking
:22:48. > :22:49.is currently how much of humanity This Berlin-based start-up has
:22:50. > :23:03.harnessed artificial intelligence to revolutionise the boring
:23:04. > :23:09.old accountancy profession. Clients of the service
:23:10. > :23:13.will scan their invoices But inside, the software
:23:14. > :23:19.is doing something extraordinary. Instead of human accountants
:23:20. > :23:20.looking at the documents, the computer is figuring
:23:21. > :23:25.out the figures. But then you have to interpret
:23:26. > :23:35.the tax and the system has to know, And where is the tax information
:23:36. > :23:43.on the receipt? And that's interpreting
:23:44. > :23:46.the information, and that's really in many, many areas
:23:47. > :23:52.a revolution that we're seeing. Is that a person crossing the street
:23:53. > :24:00.or is it just water on the street Can I go on driving,
:24:01. > :24:05.or do I have to stop? That's understanding,
:24:06. > :24:07.interpretation work. And that's also the work
:24:08. > :24:10.that has to be done here The system really needs to do
:24:11. > :24:15.the interpretation. At Smacc, they say this
:24:16. > :24:18.will lead to less mundane, more interesting work
:24:19. > :24:20.for human accountants. But again, the question
:24:21. > :24:22.is, how many of these We are progressing very,
:24:23. > :24:28.very quickly in terms of innovation. But we have no idea where
:24:29. > :24:31.we are heading, and And I fear that at present,
:24:32. > :24:38.both governments and the private sector are quite happy to rely
:24:39. > :24:42.on neo-liberalism and market forces and allow them to decide
:24:43. > :24:44.the direction of innovation Want to know where we could be
:24:45. > :24:56.heading as a species? Have a look at our
:24:57. > :24:58.friend Oliver here. Just a century ago,
:24:59. > :25:00.millions of horses in the UK could earn their keep
:25:01. > :25:03.in agriculture, in the mines, The fact is that for almost every
:25:04. > :25:11.job that horses once monopolised, today they are not worth
:25:12. > :25:14.their food and stabling. They couldn't give their labour
:25:15. > :25:18.away at any price. We can only hope that the robots
:25:19. > :25:21.are a little more sympathetic to us David Grossman. I'm sure all of
:25:22. > :25:35.these robots will need secretaries! You have to hand it
:25:36. > :25:37.to the well-known environmental activist and Guardian writer
:25:38. > :25:40.George Monbiot - he has always been He risked the wrath of green allies
:25:41. > :25:44.by turning from opposing nuclear power to supporting
:25:45. > :25:46.it, for example. Or more memorably, on this very
:25:47. > :25:48.programme he demonstrated how to cook a dead squirrel,
:25:49. > :25:51.one that had been hit by a car. Well, in his latest circumvolution
:25:52. > :25:54.he has devoted himself to a musical He's produced an album with folk
:25:55. > :25:58.singer Ewan McLennan called Breaking Actually, Ewan McLennan has done
:25:59. > :26:04.most of the music side of things and we'll hear a bit
:26:05. > :26:06.of that shortly. But first, George Monbiot
:26:07. > :26:15.is with me. It started because he wrote a piece
:26:16. > :26:20.in the Guardian on loneliness and it had more impact than you realised?
:26:21. > :26:26.It went viral and I had publishers saying, would you write a book?
:26:27. > :26:30.Great! I spent three years sitting in socialisation writing about
:26:31. > :26:35.social isolation! And then it struck me, I want to do something about it
:26:36. > :26:39.on something which engages before and brings them together rather than
:26:40. > :26:45.the solitary pursuit of reading and music does that better than almost
:26:46. > :26:51.anything. Is loneliness trending? Is more than there ever was? Is
:26:52. > :26:56.evidence? The data is poor quality because we have not used the same
:26:57. > :27:00.metrics across the past 50 years but the spotlight figures suggest yes,
:27:01. > :27:04.there is a massive problem and certainly in some age groups it
:27:05. > :27:09.seems to be escalating. It is accompanied by a huge amount of
:27:10. > :27:19.mental health disorders. Your theory as to what has caused that is to do
:27:20. > :27:24.with our economy and neoliberalism. To do with an individualistic
:27:25. > :27:30.economic ethos? That is part of it, technology has made big differences
:27:31. > :27:34.but we have dominant ideology which says, you are individuals, go your
:27:35. > :27:39.own way, be self starters, sole traders, self-made men and women,
:27:40. > :27:44.you don't owe anything to others around you, competition is the
:27:45. > :27:48.defining characteristic of humanity. That is how we should see ourselves,
:27:49. > :27:53.we are fundamentally quite selfish and other people are just a threat.
:27:54. > :28:00.These are things you have always criticised. Some other theories...
:28:01. > :28:03.The family is not what it used to be, the 1960s came along and we
:28:04. > :28:11.became permissive and consumer mistake. Do you attach any way to
:28:12. > :28:15.that? It is a mesh, these are not exclusive explanations. Those ones
:28:16. > :28:21.you mention reinforce the trends I am talking about and the push
:28:22. > :28:25.towards individualism. But whatever the underlying or major reasons
:28:26. > :28:30.might be for it, this is a huge problem which is greatly under
:28:31. > :28:34.disgust. While you could just be overestimating the problem because
:28:35. > :28:38.you are thinking about loneliness as going bowling together but they
:28:39. > :28:42.don't do that any more, they do other things, they are on what's up,
:28:43. > :28:48.the world has changed. Perhaps social relationships have changed?
:28:49. > :28:52.There is a difference between being physically isolated and being
:28:53. > :28:56.lonely, some people are perfectly happy on a desert island, it suits
:28:57. > :29:00.them. What loneliness it is a feeling of emotional pain that you
:29:01. > :29:05.get from being cut off from others so when people are surveyed about
:29:06. > :29:09.this, you see this very high proportion of the population that is
:29:10. > :29:13.lonely and that is a really big problem, emotional pain is so great
:29:14. > :29:16.for many people that they would much rather have physical pain. Hence the
:29:17. > :29:18.project. Thank you very much. I'll be back on Monday -
:29:19. > :29:23.but let us get Ewan McLennan to play us out with one of the songs
:29:24. > :29:26.from the Breaking the Spell of Loneliness album,
:29:27. > :29:31.co-written by George. This one is called
:29:32. > :29:33.Such A Thing As Society. # If I am to win then
:29:34. > :29:45.you have to fail. # It's each for himself,
:29:46. > :29:48.they've spun is the tale. # If I am to live
:29:49. > :29:51.then you have to die. # This, my friend,
:29:52. > :29:59.is the time-honoured life. # This, my friend,
:30:00. > :30:02.is the time-honoured lie. # It's working and living
:30:03. > :30:11.and laughing together. # In the glitter, the gold,
:30:12. > :30:31.the silver charade. # We see ourselves in
:30:32. > :30:35.the image they've made. # Have we fought for the scraps
:30:36. > :30:38.since the very first day? # Do we really believe
:30:39. > :30:48.there's no other way? # It's working and living
:30:49. > :30:58.and laughing together. # It's not who we are,
:30:59. > :31:18.it's not how we live. # In the depths of disaster
:31:19. > :31:22.be huddle together. # We lend our hand to
:31:23. > :31:25.strangers with needs. # We go without so
:31:26. > :31:36.that others can eat.