:00:00. > :00:00.Is it the usual refugee-bashing panic, but this time applied
:00:00. > :00:12.Or are adults taking Britain for a ride, stretching the word
:00:13. > :00:18."children" in order to get into the country?
:00:19. > :00:20.Which is worse - giving refuge to grown-ups that
:00:21. > :00:24.Or leaving children behind that you did?
:00:25. > :00:33.The refugee issue keeps on dividing the nation.
:00:34. > :00:41.All safe passage clients but go through our process are verified,
:00:42. > :00:43.bake the family link and the age. I think it's a distraction, these are
:00:44. > :00:46.children that need to be treated like children.
:00:47. > :00:48.We'll ask how you tell children and adults apart,
:00:49. > :00:52.Also tonight, this man was boss of Barclays until last year.
:00:53. > :00:56.Listen to what he's saying now, in this film he's made for us.
:00:57. > :01:04.I believe that in 20 years' time we may not need banks at all. We'll see
:01:05. > :01:10.a wave of technology driven financial services that will change
:01:11. > :01:14.the way we all use and move money. It's not that the banks can't adapt,
:01:15. > :01:19.it's that the system is fundamentally broken.
:01:20. > :01:21.And we talk to former Man Booker winner, the Irish novelist
:01:22. > :01:24.John Banville, and now author of the TV Crime series,
:01:25. > :01:37.I watch these things like The Bridge but every single one of these shows
:01:38. > :01:43.start off with a young woman being raped, murdered, is and thrown into
:01:44. > :01:44.a garbage dump. If I were a woman I would be protesting very loudly
:01:45. > :01:48.about this. There are times when every normal
:01:49. > :01:52.teenager wants to be an adult. And there are also those abnormal
:01:53. > :01:55.times, when certain teenagers desperately want to be
:01:56. > :01:57.treated as children. The line between the two
:01:58. > :02:00.is sometimes a fine one. The pictures of some of the young
:02:01. > :02:03.people being brought into this country from Calais has led
:02:04. > :02:06.to a certain indignant surprise among some - it has ignited
:02:07. > :02:08.predictable suggestions that adults are making a mockery of our attempt
:02:09. > :02:13.to help children. That we are giving refuge to people
:02:14. > :02:16.we didn't mean to let in. That may or not be true,
:02:17. > :02:19.but it does seem that last week's bid to bring some of the children
:02:20. > :02:22.of Calais here was Secunder Kermani has spent the day
:02:23. > :02:48.in the Jungle. The camp they call the Jungle is
:02:49. > :02:53.home to up to 10,000 migrants, men, women, families and around 1000
:02:54. > :02:57.unaccompanied children. All this is meant to be raised to the ground in
:02:58. > :03:01.the next few days so belatedly the Home Office has begun to focus its
:03:02. > :03:04.efforts on bringing over those children eligible to come to the UK
:03:05. > :03:11.because they have relatives in Britain. Some of those who have been
:03:12. > :03:16.brought over, according to critics, look far older than 17. Here in
:03:17. > :03:20.Calais there are different criticisms, that what is being done
:03:21. > :03:25.is too little too late. I think we can all agree today is one to
:03:26. > :03:29.celebrate. We've seen 15 unaccompanied children arrive safely
:03:30. > :03:33.and legally in the UK in the arms of their loved ones as part of this
:03:34. > :03:38.process. But the process is chaotic and confusing here on the ground in
:03:39. > :03:41.Calais. We've got hundreds of children eligible for this process
:03:42. > :03:46.and we are very concerned but the vulnerable ones will be left behind.
:03:47. > :03:50.There is some talk of the process allowing in people who aren't really
:03:51. > :03:56.children as well, do you have concerns about that? I don't, I
:03:57. > :03:59.trust the Home Office's verification process and all clients who go
:04:00. > :04:04.through our process are verified. With the family link and the age of
:04:05. > :04:07.that child. I think it's a distraction, these are children who
:04:08. > :04:12.need to be treated like children. Those unaccompanied children who
:04:13. > :04:14.have relatives in Britain are interviewed by officials in Calais
:04:15. > :04:22.and their relatives are contacted to. This boy is from Afghanistan and
:04:23. > :04:29.has just started the process, telling authorities he is 13.
:04:30. > :04:35.TRANSLATION: I submitted my case they said they would hear from -- I
:04:36. > :04:40.would hear from them in three days. One of his friends died last month
:04:41. > :04:43.trying to board a lorry. He had a brother in Manchester and was
:04:44. > :04:48.eligible but delays with his application led him to take his
:04:49. > :04:54.chances. He was a friend, he was a good guy, but he died. That incident
:04:55. > :05:00.happened and London should take in more miners so incidents don't
:05:01. > :05:02.happen like this in future. There clearly are lots of genuine and
:05:03. > :05:09.vulnerable children here, there are also many desperate enough to claim
:05:10. > :05:13.to be children to escape. For those over 18, the closure of this camp is
:05:14. > :05:16.unlikely to be the end of their journey, despite French plans to
:05:17. > :05:25.relocate them across the country. The worry is the people who won't
:05:26. > :05:28.seek asylum in France and won't go to accommodation centres, and still
:05:29. > :05:33.want to live in the UK. They'll be forced to disappear and won't have
:05:34. > :05:40.the support of the organisations or infrastructure here to supply them
:05:41. > :05:45.with quality of life. How many people are likely to want to try and
:05:46. > :05:48.get to Britain? I imagine there will be thousands. Frustration in the
:05:49. > :05:53.camp has increased as the deadline to demolish it draws ever closer. As
:05:54. > :05:58.the light goes down in Calais, that's when the tensions between
:05:59. > :06:02.those living in the camp and the police begin to rise. You see the
:06:03. > :06:06.scenes of conflict with tear gas being thrown. We've been told by aid
:06:07. > :06:10.workers that with the imminent destruction of the camp coming,
:06:11. > :06:14.those living here including the children, are becoming more and more
:06:15. > :06:21.desperate in their attempts to get to Britain. This is clearly no place
:06:22. > :06:24.for any child. But even if the Home Office somehow manages to bring over
:06:25. > :06:30.all those children with relatives in Britain, it leaves stranded here
:06:31. > :06:35.even more with no link to the UK but desperate to go there.
:06:36. > :06:37.Conservative Councillor David Simmonds is responsible
:06:38. > :06:38.for children's services at Hillingdon Council,
:06:39. > :06:40.which covers Heathrow Airport and oversees the processing of many
:06:41. > :06:48.Beth Gardiner Smith is the organiser on child refugees from Citizens UK,
:06:49. > :06:59.which oversees Safe Passage, who you saw in the film.
:07:00. > :07:05.Beth, is it being well handled this attempt to bring some of the
:07:06. > :07:10.children to the UK or is it a bit of a model? It's fair to say it is
:07:11. > :07:15.quite shambolic what is going on at the moment. In the camp you can't
:07:16. > :07:20.people with megaphones walking around calling for children to come
:07:21. > :07:27.forward to register themselves on separate lists. Who is doing that?
:07:28. > :07:31.UK mandated agencies. Going around with megaphones? Calling for
:07:32. > :07:35.children to put themselves forward because the clock is ticking,
:07:36. > :07:40.demolition is within a matter of days, and they simply don't have the
:07:41. > :07:44.information they need. As I understand it organisations like
:07:45. > :07:47.yours have been carefully compiling lists. Absolutely, and we've
:07:48. > :07:50.submitted those to the Home Office, they have them and we are working
:07:51. > :07:54.with them to bring those children know that possible. But it is
:07:55. > :07:59.chaotic. The Home Office has focused on this and we welcome that, but
:08:00. > :08:04.it's been quite late in the day. It seemed like nothing was happening
:08:05. > :08:08.and suddenly at the last minute... Indeed, we've been working for over
:08:09. > :08:12.a year in Calais to get the Home Office to focus on the children who
:08:13. > :08:16.have a legal right to come to the UK. You could give the Home Office
:08:17. > :08:21.the names, the list, and you could find those young people and say we
:08:22. > :08:24.think we know where they are? The reality is we have, and we've also
:08:25. > :08:31.told them of discrepancies on their own list. The reality is it's chaos,
:08:32. > :08:34.and the problem is that children will go missing in that chaos. We
:08:35. > :08:39.are deeply concerned children are going to drop off those lists,
:08:40. > :08:42.particularly vulnerable children, are not on any list and with
:08:43. > :08:46.demolition days away they will simply disappear. Some who should be
:08:47. > :08:51.coming will not get here? Absolutely. You've got a lot of
:08:52. > :08:56.experience in the area. Is it a problem that adults pretend to be
:08:57. > :08:59.kids and it's quite hard to tell the difference, they don't have any
:09:00. > :09:05.documents, and you see people you don't believe our children? Councils
:09:06. > :09:10.have been dealing with this problem for a long time. Back in 1999 the
:09:11. > :09:15.Royal Society of paediatricians made it clear in their advice that
:09:16. > :09:18.medical evidence was not reliable for determining someone's age
:09:19. > :09:22.definitively and that was backed up by the British Dental Association.
:09:23. > :09:26.Councils have to go through a process where trained staff
:09:27. > :09:30.interviewed children to try and get the best possible information they
:09:31. > :09:33.can to determine their age. Because young people are treated more
:09:34. > :09:38.favourably by the way UK immigration works there is an incentive for some
:09:39. > :09:41.who are trying to disguise their circumstances to pretend they are
:09:42. > :09:47.younger than they are. In regards to Calais, we've always known the vast
:09:48. > :09:50.majority of those there under 18 were older teenagers. We would
:09:51. > :09:55.expect the people arriving wouldn't look like small children but they
:09:56. > :09:59.would be people towards the age of 17 or 18. You do make some effort to
:10:00. > :10:04.screen adults from children. I'm wondering how well you think you can
:10:05. > :10:09.do that, if you're not using dental or medical techniques to do it,
:10:10. > :10:14.interviewing people, can you really tell what age someone is by
:10:15. > :10:18.interviewing them? The process that councils use start with checking out
:10:19. > :10:22.what evidence is available to prove a person's age. That might be a
:10:23. > :10:27.passport or birth certificate. Once we know which country a person has
:10:28. > :10:30.come from will often make contact with the authorities in that country
:10:31. > :10:35.because of the person doesn't have evidence, it may be the authorities
:10:36. > :10:39.can provide it. In Afghanistan it's common to be able to track down
:10:40. > :10:43.detailed records. If none of that is available then trained staff will
:10:44. > :10:47.work in teams where they will look to interview a person over a period
:10:48. > :10:51.of several days to get expert opinions from others which might
:10:52. > :10:54.include doctors and other professionals, to look at what
:10:55. > :10:57.they've been saying about their education, the things they've done
:10:58. > :11:03.in their lives, to try and get a true picture. Whilst that won't give
:11:04. > :11:08.you an exact date of birth it will give you a more accurate idea that a
:11:09. > :11:12.person saying they are 16 or 17 is that age, or they might be in their
:11:13. > :11:20.20s or as has happened sometimes, much younger. When you can properly
:11:21. > :11:24.ascertained someone's age, maybe by getting documentary evidence, how
:11:25. > :11:28.many turn out to have been lying? Is it the occasional person or are we
:11:29. > :11:34.talking about a large minority? Of the total that come to the UK who
:11:35. > :11:38.make an asylum claim and claim to be children, the proportion who are
:11:39. > :11:44.subsequently found not to be children is quite high, it's around
:11:45. > :11:51.60%. That's very high. It's very high in the overall number. That's
:11:52. > :11:55.the historic record? That's extraordinary. That's consistently
:11:56. > :11:59.over many years. The ones who come into the care of councils ones who
:12:00. > :12:02.have already been through a UK border process that has identified
:12:03. > :12:06.they are probably children. The proportion of those who go through
:12:07. > :12:10.council assessment and turn out not to be children is lower, although
:12:11. > :12:14.there are many councils who end up in the courts with disputes about
:12:15. > :12:18.this. It's important we get the evidence right because we don't want
:12:19. > :12:21.to see situations where adults trying to disguise their
:12:22. > :12:26.circumstances might find themselves in a children's home with vulnerable
:12:27. > :12:31.youngsters. Beth, your colleague in Calais called it a distraction, it
:12:32. > :12:35.does sound bite that is a serious concern. If you have adults sitting
:12:36. > :12:39.next to children, sleeping next to children... That's why you do the
:12:40. > :12:44.checks in the first place and the Home Office does the checks before
:12:45. > :12:48.the children are transferred to the UK. There are checks in place but
:12:49. > :12:53.the real issue here is that the chaos is meaning that there are a
:12:54. > :12:59.large number of highly vulnerable, very young children that are simply
:13:00. > :13:03.not being catered for. The Home Office do not have a process that
:13:04. > :13:08.those children who are eligible under the dogs law passed by
:13:09. > :13:14.Parliament earlier this year. There is no process in place for those
:13:15. > :13:19.children -- dubs law. We are working with children under 13, orphans who
:13:20. > :13:24.are at serious risk, highly vulnerable, taking crazy risks every
:13:25. > :13:27.night. All the while the Calais camp is due to be demolished in days.
:13:28. > :13:32.Thank you. There is news tonight
:13:33. > :13:33.that the government is about to announce a pardon
:13:34. > :13:37.for all those convicted of the long abolished sexual offences,
:13:38. > :13:38.notably buggery and gross As long it was consenting men over
:13:39. > :13:42.16, and is not illegal This was in the Tory manifesto,
:13:43. > :13:46.and follows the exceptional pardon that granted to the late Alan Turing
:13:47. > :13:51.back in 2013. We are now joined by
:13:52. > :14:14.George Montague, who was convicted Tell us about your conviction and
:14:15. > :14:17.what it was for? May I start by saying that I was brought up in a
:14:18. > :14:23.small country village where every boy longed to the Scouts. That
:14:24. > :14:34.formed my character. You do your best and you never, ever tell a lie.
:14:35. > :14:42.I woke one morning and thought, why am I still living a lie? I just
:14:43. > :14:51.started campaigning for an apology to all gay men. In my generation to
:14:52. > :14:58.be gay was to be guilty. You did not have to do anything at all. The best
:14:59. > :15:03.young -- the best looking young policeman in the station was not
:15:04. > :15:09.gay, not in uniform. They were not getting so many because we became
:15:10. > :15:12.very clever and we were very disrupted -- discreet. But they sent
:15:13. > :15:19.in these young policeman and so many, many men were caught and
:15:20. > :15:28.convicted, all in the local newspapers. Several suicides. I
:15:29. > :15:34.think to myself, why? Why don't I do something about it? Tell us how much
:15:35. > :15:39.it means to you. In a way people will say it is of no practical
:15:40. > :15:44.significance now. But maybe it isn't of practical significance, but it
:15:45. > :15:51.sounds like it is more about setting the record straight? Yes. There
:15:52. > :15:55.never should have been an offence of gross indecency. It didn't apply to
:15:56. > :16:00.heterosexuals. Heterosexuals could do what they liked in doorways,
:16:01. > :16:08.passageways, in the backs of their car. It only applied to gay men.
:16:09. > :16:13.That is not right, surely? I want that complete law scrubbed, got rid
:16:14. > :16:18.of, and my conviction scrubbed. We don't know all the details but are
:16:19. > :16:23.you a happy man to hear that the government appears to be supporting
:16:24. > :16:26.a Private members Bill being debated on Friday. The government are going
:16:27. > :16:35.to give it time and say, let's white all of these fences off? I couldn't
:16:36. > :16:41.be happier. Except one thing. I will not accept a pardon. To accept a
:16:42. > :16:45.pardon means you accept you were guilty. I was not guilty of
:16:46. > :16:49.anything. I was only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong
:16:50. > :16:54.time. My name was on the queer list, which the police had in those days.
:16:55. > :17:00.I will not accept a pardon. I think it was wrong to give Alan Turing,
:17:01. > :17:05.one of my heroes, it was wrong to give him a pardon. What was he
:17:06. > :17:11.guilty of? He was guilty of the same as what they call me guilty of.
:17:12. > :17:20.Being born only able to fall in love with another man. I married. I loved
:17:21. > :17:29.my wife. And you had children as well. We had children. You feel the
:17:30. > :17:33.apology is more important than the pardon? They give Alan Turing an
:17:34. > :17:38.apology first and then they gave him a pardon. You think the apology is
:17:39. > :17:44.the more important of the two, particularly for somebody who is
:17:45. > :17:49.dead? If I get the apology, I don't mind about the pardon. It is not
:17:50. > :17:55.only me. There are still 11,000 older men like me still alive. I
:17:56. > :18:01.talked to some of them. My great friend, Lord Edward Montagu, he
:18:02. > :18:05.served a year in prison. I said to him, come on, surely you deserve an
:18:06. > :18:13.apology? And he said unlike lots of my contemporaries said, or George,
:18:14. > :18:15.leave it. Let it lie. I am not going to. Something as happened. Thank you
:18:16. > :18:18.for talking to us. You've seen technology
:18:19. > :18:20.undermine high street travel Maybe you felt a bit sorry
:18:21. > :18:23.for the people whose But imagine if technology
:18:24. > :18:26.destroyed the banks? Would you shed tears,
:18:27. > :18:28.or think of it as payback Well, this is not a hypothetical
:18:29. > :18:31.question. Technology is undermining the banks'
:18:32. > :18:34.business models right now. Don't take it from me -
:18:35. > :18:40.take it from someone Anthony Jenkins was Chief Executive
:18:41. > :18:45.of Barclays until last year - now he thinks banks
:18:46. > :18:46.will potentially disappear. We asked him to make
:18:47. > :18:54.a film to explain why. In 2008, banks in the UK
:18:55. > :18:58.and across the world suffered one of the worst crises
:18:59. > :19:01.in their history. Trust among consumers was lost,
:19:02. > :19:03.the banks were too aggressive, too self-serving, too focused
:19:04. > :19:10.on the short-term. Eight years on, while balance sheets
:19:11. > :19:14.look a little healthier, what banks fear now is far scarier
:19:15. > :19:17.than a credit crisis. Like the dinosaurs,
:19:18. > :19:22.destruction could be rapid, Now British banks have always used
:19:23. > :19:33.technology to improve products From the world's first
:19:34. > :19:38.ATM here in Enfield, to the 40 million mobile banking
:19:39. > :19:43.apps that were downloaded last year. But now banks face a challenge
:19:44. > :19:47.of a totally new set of rivals, ones Many established industries have
:19:48. > :19:55.already been disrupted. Consider how Uber has transformed
:19:56. > :19:59.taxis, threatening to put traditional cab operators
:20:00. > :20:04.out of business. So what are the Uber
:20:05. > :20:06.moments for banks? People in businesses lend to each
:20:07. > :20:11.other through online services that match lenders directly
:20:12. > :20:14.with borrowers. These firms are entirely online,
:20:15. > :20:16.with lower overheads With middlemen cut out,
:20:17. > :20:23.borrowers get lower rates. Savers get better headline rates,
:20:24. > :20:26.and the banks themselves Foreign exchange companies already
:20:27. > :20:31.make it ten times cheaper to send money abroad
:20:32. > :20:36.than traditional banking. They have managed to remove
:20:37. > :20:39.all of the charges banks and brokers have kept hidden for decades,
:20:40. > :20:42.and users have access to the real Driven by new technologies,
:20:43. > :20:47.these companies are not only changing the way that customers
:20:48. > :20:50.interact with banks, they're also changing the way
:20:51. > :20:53.that businesses interact But while fintech businesses
:20:54. > :21:03.are creating real change in how we interact with financial services,
:21:04. > :21:07.they still ride on the rails of this These are still the businesses
:21:08. > :21:16.holding almost all the world's money, and they're almost solely
:21:17. > :21:21.responsible for moving it around. Whether you are taking
:21:22. > :21:25.about a peer-to-peer loan, or moving your money overseas
:21:26. > :21:28.online, you are still One of the most important roles
:21:29. > :21:32.of banks is to hold accurate records Without banks, how would you know
:21:33. > :21:40.when I said I was sending you ?10, One solution is distributed ledger
:21:41. > :21:47.technology, a tamper-proof public record of every transaction
:21:48. > :21:50.happening in the world without needing any kind
:21:51. > :21:55.of banks to control it. If person A pays person B the system
:21:56. > :21:58.knows whether person A has the money, and creates a public
:21:59. > :22:00.record of the transaction without revealing the actual
:22:01. > :22:07.balances and details to anyone. The same thing could be done
:22:08. > :22:09.for savings and loans, bonds and shares - almost every
:22:10. > :22:13.aspect of today's financial system. This technology is cheaper, quicker,
:22:14. > :22:18.and even safer and more I believe that in 20 years,
:22:19. > :22:24.we may not need banks at all. We will see a wave of
:22:25. > :22:28.technology-driven financial services that will change the way
:22:29. > :22:31.we all use and move money. It's not that the banks can't adapt
:22:32. > :22:39.- it's that the system And while these technologies might
:22:40. > :22:50.be bad news for traditional banks, it could be good news
:22:51. > :22:52.for everyone else. Because this technology revolution
:22:53. > :22:56.will allow a return to a banking system based on values that serve
:22:57. > :22:58.customers better, reduce risk to society and improve
:22:59. > :23:00.returns to shareholders. And isn't that the banking
:23:01. > :23:12.system we all deserve? Antony Jenkins there, and we should
:23:13. > :23:16.point out that he is involved I'm joined now by Hazel Morre,
:23:17. > :23:25.co-founder of the investment bank, FirstCapital, which invests in some
:23:26. > :23:34.of these fintech companies. Do you agree that it is going to be
:23:35. > :23:41.a really big radical change in the next 20 years? I really do. In 20
:23:42. > :23:46.years, banks may not exist in the kind of form we see them today. Many
:23:47. > :23:51.industries have been totally disrupted by the Internet and
:23:52. > :23:56.changing consumer behaviour. COBRA is the largest taxi company in the
:23:57. > :24:04.world. It has no taxis. Amazon is the largest retailer in the world.
:24:05. > :24:08.It has no shops. He did say that at the moment all of these apps and
:24:09. > :24:11.platforms basically come back to banks. They use the banking system
:24:12. > :24:18.as the platform of everything they are doing? They do. It is unlikely
:24:19. > :24:20.we will see a wholesale replacement of the banking infrastructure. But
:24:21. > :24:24.there are regulations coming down the line that will force banks to
:24:25. > :24:29.open the infrastructure to third parties. There is the payment
:24:30. > :24:34.services under to directive which will force banks to open up their
:24:35. > :24:39.payment structures. Third parties will be able to offer services on
:24:40. > :24:45.top. It will be like Openreach and broadband? Absolutely. The danger
:24:46. > :24:52.for banks is that they become a utility. And all of the value goes
:24:53. > :24:58.to the providers. A lot of people say why pay the banks such a big
:24:59. > :25:05.margin if I can give money to you directly because we have an app? A
:25:06. > :25:11.lot of this exists now. None of it has been stressed tested. Banks,
:25:12. > :25:14.most of the time, our fine. It is only every 100 years they have a
:25:15. > :25:21.horrible crisis and fall apart. Are you confident that peer-to-peer
:25:22. > :25:25.lending, say, that when everybody wants to get out, there isn't going
:25:26. > :25:29.to be a run on them and people will find they can't get their money out
:25:30. > :25:38.because there isn't a big stock of capital as in a bank? That is a
:25:39. > :25:43.valid concern. What is important to realise that peer-to-peer lending is
:25:44. > :25:46.that it is not a substitute for a high interest savings account. It is
:25:47. > :25:49.not something that you should invest in if you need your money in a
:25:50. > :25:54.hurry. It is a relatively sophisticated product and it carries
:25:55. > :26:01.high risk. It should only be part of, for example, a portfolio. In
:26:02. > :26:06.2008, when the banking crisis started, it was most impossible for
:26:07. > :26:11.small businesses to get loans. What peer-to-peer lending allows is an
:26:12. > :26:15.alternative source of credit, which in some respects, should there be an
:26:16. > :26:18.economic crisis, may provide more stability into the system because
:26:19. > :26:24.there is a different sort of credit available. Am I right in thinking
:26:25. > :26:27.that Britain is a leader in this fintech area because we are not bad
:26:28. > :26:33.at technology and we are good at finance? Britain, in particular
:26:34. > :26:39.London, has a fantastic opportunity in fintech to take a global lead in
:26:40. > :26:44.what is a huge industry. In technology, clearly silicon valley
:26:45. > :26:47.is the centre of major innovation, but silicon Valley is not a
:26:48. > :26:53.financial centre. What we have in London and in the UK is an abundance
:26:54. > :26:57.of customers and -- and an abundance of talent and technology. Put those
:26:58. > :27:00.three together and there is an opportunity to develop some
:27:01. > :27:07.important new businesses. Thank you for coming in.
:27:08. > :27:13.The European dream of landing a space probe on Mars appears to be
:27:14. > :27:21.shattered tonight amid growing concern that Schiaparelli has been
:27:22. > :27:26.lost. The probe plunged into the hot dusty atmosphere and towards the
:27:27. > :27:30.surface at 21,000 kilometres per hour. The plan was for a parachute
:27:31. > :27:34.to be deployed. That was going to slow the descent. But radio signals
:27:35. > :27:44.dropped out shortly before touchdown. I'm joined by Professor
:27:45. > :27:47.Mark McCall Quesne. Terribly disappointing after greatest joy at
:27:48. > :27:52.the fact that the mother ship had got into orbit earlier on. What is
:27:53. > :27:58.the diagnosis of what has happened? We have to wait until tomorrow
:27:59. > :28:03.morning to see if we actually have data which we captured during the
:28:04. > :28:09.day via the mothership. The trace gas orbiter was monitoring
:28:10. > :28:15.Schiaparelli as it went down. We will be downloading the data
:28:16. > :28:19.overnight. By ten o'clock tomorrow morning we hope to have a much
:28:20. > :28:24.better diagnosis of what actually happened yesterday. We think that,
:28:25. > :28:28.in fact, the signals which we saw dropping out were about 30 seconds
:28:29. > :28:32.before the surface, just as the parachute was jettisoned and we
:28:33. > :28:35.started descending under the rocket thrusters which were going to slow
:28:36. > :28:39.us right down. At the moment we don't know what we will look at it
:28:40. > :28:47.carefully overnight. We can see a little video animation of what it
:28:48. > :28:51.was meant to be. It is an incredibly dangerous and difficult thing to
:28:52. > :28:57.make it work. As we stand now, what would you say the best case is? Is
:28:58. > :29:02.it possible that it is all going to come right? I think it is possible.
:29:03. > :29:06.As a non-betting person, I wouldn't want to stake anything on it.
:29:07. > :29:12.Chances are less than 50%. This was a test and demonstration mission to
:29:13. > :29:15.see how we could get down to the surface using the technology. The
:29:16. > :29:20.critical thing is relaying the data back which has been captured by the
:29:21. > :29:25.TGL. That will teach us a lot about the technologies we employed and how
:29:26. > :29:28.to improve upon them for the mission we are looking forward to in 2020
:29:29. > :29:32.when we put a Rover down to the surface and start driving around,
:29:33. > :29:38.digging deep beneath the surface for signs of life. There are satellites
:29:39. > :29:44.going around Mars, human satellites. Are we going to get a picture? Like
:29:45. > :29:51.we had a picture of the one on the comment. Is it possible that we can
:29:52. > :29:54.contact this thing or view it? We will certainly be working with the
:29:55. > :30:00.Americans because they have the highest resolution camera in orbit
:30:01. > :30:04.flying around, called high Rice. We will be trying to work out where we
:30:05. > :30:09.did touchdown based on the data. They will be targeting to try to get
:30:10. > :30:13.pictures of where we are. But again, everything we do in space is hard,
:30:14. > :30:17.it is risky. We knew that today we would try something very difficult.
:30:18. > :30:21.We should not lose sight of the fact that the trace gas orbiter itself
:30:22. > :30:26.will be sniffing the atmosphere of Mars looking for gases like methane,
:30:27. > :30:29.which may be indicators of life on the planet. That has been fully
:30:30. > :30:33.successful. I think glass half empty, glass half full, we are
:30:34. > :30:38.pretty happy about getting TGL into orbit.
:30:39. > :30:48.It is a little reminiscent of Beagle two, which was such a disappointment
:30:49. > :30:52.in the end. Are you feeling a gut wrenching sadness that the potential
:30:53. > :31:00.for this being lost or is the TG oh part of it solace? When Beagle two
:31:01. > :31:07.went down we had another satellite with it called Mars Express. It's
:31:08. > :31:11.been operating very successfully. I can't hide I'm feeling a little bit
:31:12. > :31:14.down this evening. It's something we planned for four years and we do
:31:15. > :31:19.need to understand what happened. Maybe tomorrow morning will wake up
:31:20. > :31:24.happier people. There's no doubting it, there are a bunch of people in
:31:25. > :31:28.the hotel who are mulling over what happened to day. That's what we do,
:31:29. > :31:36.we take an ambitious tasks and sometimes it works brilliantly well.
:31:37. > :31:40.And today we had 75-80% success so we can't be too downhearted. Thank
:31:41. > :31:43.you for talking to us. It is less than a week
:31:44. > :31:46.until the winner of the Man Booker Prize is announced,
:31:47. > :31:48.a useful reminder for the book-reading classes that it'll
:31:49. > :31:51.soon to be time to purchase Now we can't tell you who has won
:31:52. > :31:56.this year, but we can bring you news of a stocking filler from the man
:31:57. > :31:59.who won it in 2005. He is the Irish novelist,
:32:00. > :32:01.John Banville, whose bone dry and often biting wit is almost
:32:02. > :32:04.as celebrated as his prose. He's now published a memoir
:32:05. > :32:06.of Dublin, called Time Pieces. He's also been talking about U2,
:32:07. > :32:09.the high body count in TV drama and what it means to be singled
:32:10. > :32:12.out by the Booker jury Talking of whom,
:32:13. > :32:15.here's Stephen Smith. I was very young when I first fell
:32:16. > :32:21.in love with libraries. "Miss flushing, blonde, pink
:32:22. > :32:25.and bespectacled, was one of three She stood behind her counter
:32:26. > :32:31.at a raised level so that when I approached her to have my
:32:32. > :32:34.week's borrowings stamped, I would find myself at eye level
:32:35. > :32:38.with her magnificent conical breasts poking against the pale
:32:39. > :32:42.blue angora jumper. It's that particular jumper
:32:43. > :32:47.I see her inveterately in. I'm sure I would have fallen in love
:32:48. > :32:51.with her, another of my phantom darlings, had her bust
:32:52. > :33:05.been less intimidating." John Banville's new one
:33:06. > :33:08.is a memoir of Dublin. Its characters, its splendid
:33:09. > :33:12.Georgian architecture. So we've travelled with him
:33:13. > :33:16.to central London, and its splendid We're in Fitzrovia, said to be
:33:17. > :33:26.the model for a part But curiously, having written this
:33:27. > :33:39.book, I now feel that in some way You must have approached it
:33:40. > :33:49.with some trepidation, given your illustrious
:33:50. > :33:53.predecessors. As a novelist it's almost impossible
:33:54. > :33:59.to write about Dublin, because anywhere you mention
:34:00. > :34:02.will already have been Everyone will say, this
:34:03. > :34:11.is a reference to Joyce. John Banville's best-known
:34:12. > :34:14.for his literary fiction, He won the Booker Prize in 2005,
:34:15. > :34:22.he loved it, but with John Banville You said at the time that
:34:23. > :34:27.you were pleased the Booker had been But also, I did think that now
:34:28. > :34:40.and then it's good that a book like mine should win the prize,
:34:41. > :34:46.that it's not to everybody's taste. I was interviewed by Irish radio,
:34:47. > :34:52.they said, it's a great day Your first wife described
:34:53. > :35:12.you working on a novel, you "were like a murderer
:35:13. > :35:14.who'd just returned It takes a terrible
:35:15. > :35:32.toll on one's family. We are monsters, we would sell our
:35:33. > :35:37.children for a phrase. That could mean that you're just
:35:38. > :35:39.an unpleasant man No, I think that it is
:35:40. > :35:44.true of all writers. A friend of mine was at a dinner
:35:45. > :35:49.party, and one of the people He was sitting opposite her,
:35:50. > :35:54.and he was fascinated He suddenly realised she was just
:35:55. > :36:05.learning how to do him. For the new memoir, Banville went
:36:06. > :36:08.round Dublin with a chum, who had a place next
:36:09. > :36:11.door to U2's studio. I don't suppose John has
:36:12. > :36:17.any stories, does he? I think that I'm one of the few
:36:18. > :36:20.people who has thrown # What more in the name
:36:21. > :36:33.of love # I had a nice house in North Dublin,
:36:34. > :36:37.a lovely garden. At the back of the garden
:36:38. > :36:40.was an old orchard. I went out there one beautiful
:36:41. > :36:44.summer morning, and there And I said to them, this
:36:45. > :36:50.is private property. They all very politely
:36:51. > :36:53.got down and went away. Many years later I realised
:36:54. > :36:56.that it was U2 I had There was a house at the end
:36:57. > :37:03.of the garden and they were staying there, and they had just come out
:37:04. > :37:06.there to have a rest in the trees Under the pen name Benjamin Black,
:37:07. > :37:17.Banville's written the casebook of a 1950s Dublin pathologist,
:37:18. > :37:21.Quirke, who is played on TV My wife said to me,
:37:22. > :37:30.it'll never do well, Nowadays it has to be extreme
:37:31. > :37:35.violence, there has to be blood all over the place,
:37:36. > :37:40.you have to be wading through blood. I watched these things
:37:41. > :37:42.like The Bridge and so on, but every single one of these shows
:37:43. > :37:46.simply start off with a young woman being raped and murdered
:37:47. > :37:50.and eviscerated and thrown If I were a woman I would be
:37:51. > :37:55.protesting very loudly about this. Banville's fans will be glad to know
:37:56. > :38:02.he is working on his next novel. All that experience
:38:03. > :38:06.must come in handy. No experience teaches anybody
:38:07. > :38:09.anything. When I was young I thought age
:38:10. > :38:12.would bring wisdom, it doesn't, But I like confusion,
:38:13. > :38:35.it's a nice state to be in. I think I said earlier that it was
:38:36. > :38:38.in a private members bill, apparently not true, it's a Lib Dem
:38:39. > :38:41.amendment to the policing and crime Bill.
:38:42. > :38:44.On after us on BBC Two, No Such Thing As The News,
:38:45. > :38:47.and if you really want to stay up late, don't forget the last
:38:48. > :38:50.It'll be on the News Channel at two o'clock.
:38:51. > :38:53.You can lie in bed and stream it on your smartphone, if that
:38:54. > :38:57.We'll leave you now though with the music of Carter Burwell,
:38:58. > :38:59.who this evening won Film Composer of the Year
:39:00. > :39:02.at the World Soundtrack Academy Awards, as well as best
:39:03. > :39:04.original music for None of Them Are You from
:39:05. > :39:06.Charlie Kaufman's haunting 2015 stop motion love story,
:39:07. > :39:13.MUSIC: "None of Them Are You" by Carter Burwell
:39:14. > :39:17.# When I see your face or hear a name
:39:18. > :39:29.# It doesn't matter they're all the same
:39:30. > :40:12.Good evening. They could be a frost tonight but into the morning the
:40:13. > :40:14.best of the sunshine, if you