:00:09. > :00:15.French police clear the Jungle. The migrant camp is closed and residents
:00:16. > :00:20.out moved on. Britain welcomes a decisive resolution to a problem
:00:21. > :00:26.that has been tolerated for years. Yes, this is September 2009, but
:00:27. > :00:30.today, history is repeating itself. So, have the French this time found
:00:31. > :00:36.a sustainable and humane way of really resolving the Calais crisis?
:00:37. > :00:39.We have no choice but to stay here. Do you think that there could be
:00:40. > :00:47.violence when the police come, they will try and maybe one? This is
:00:48. > :00:51.something possible, but not sure. But violence is something we have
:00:52. > :00:56.got used to. We will ask what Europe can do to handle the broader migrant
:00:57. > :01:00.issue. Also tonight, our cut out and keep guide. Is it really possible
:01:01. > :01:05.for different parts of the UK to slice out a different kind of exit?
:01:06. > :01:11.A week into the battle to liberate Mosul, we offer a rare account of
:01:12. > :01:15.life there under IS. I was stopped by the Hisbah and forcibly asked to
:01:16. > :01:19.join an execution scene. There were five young men, they were handcuffed
:01:20. > :01:28.and they got them on their knees. And this: Just be nice! Why can't
:01:29. > :01:34.you be nice? You're the one who's not nice. I'm pregnant!
:01:35. > :01:40.A different take on a difficult pregnancy. A documentary on what it
:01:41. > :01:44.means to be a father. We will ask whether men should just supply
:01:45. > :01:45.sperm, offer support and shut up, or is pregnancy a challenge for men,
:01:46. > :01:53.to? The French seem to have a plan now,
:01:54. > :01:58.even if they didn't have enough buses to implement it
:01:59. > :02:00.all in one day. The residents are being taken
:02:01. > :02:05.elsewhere in France to reception and orientation centres,
:02:06. > :02:07.and there the migrants and refugees are given a chance to file
:02:08. > :02:09.an asylum application. Now, that's the idea,
:02:10. > :02:16.and it did get off the ground, but of course Calais,
:02:17. > :02:18.the gateway to Britain, has had an irresistible magnetism
:02:19. > :02:21.to many seeking a new life, so it's far too soon to say
:02:22. > :02:23.the plan will succeed. Secunder Kermani is in Calais
:02:24. > :02:39.and has been seeing how it has Well, the so-called Jungle at the
:02:40. > :02:43.centre of all this is just about five minutes' walk up the road, and
:02:44. > :02:47.the scene tonight is completely calm. In contrast to the tensions we
:02:48. > :02:51.have witnessed on previous occasions. And that is really in
:02:52. > :02:58.keeping with the mood of today, where we have seen hundreds of
:02:59. > :03:01.migrants processed and taken on buses to reception centres across
:03:02. > :03:06.France. What struck me was speaking to the migrants, how many of them
:03:07. > :03:10.were happy or at least resigned to the idea of staying on in France,
:03:11. > :03:14.but as you will see from my film in a minute, not everyone is, and the
:03:15. > :03:19.question is of course whether in a few months for a few years, we will
:03:20. > :03:21.be seeing another Jungle, another refugee camp of some kind spring up
:03:22. > :03:31.here once again. They started queueing
:03:32. > :03:34.well before dawn. After months and in some cases years
:03:35. > :03:37.in the camp they call the Jungle, hundreds of refugees and migrants
:03:38. > :03:40.waited to board buses taking them In effect giving up on their dreams
:03:41. > :03:47.of coming to Britain and applying Clutching his artwork,
:03:48. > :03:58.this man from Darfur displayed his wounds
:03:59. > :04:00.from life in the Jungle. He's now fed up of trying to board
:04:01. > :04:02.lorries to Britain. I try all three years,
:04:03. > :04:07.trying, try, try. Three years you've been trying
:04:08. > :04:09.to Britain? Happy too much, because it
:04:10. > :04:24.is bad life, you see. In separate queues were the camp's
:04:25. > :04:26.unaccompanied minors, waiting to be processed and taken
:04:27. > :04:30.to a secure area of the Calais camp. Many with relatives in Britain hope
:04:31. > :04:34.to be accepted by the Home Office. And your uncle in Epsom,
:04:35. > :04:40.have you spoken to him? He say, come on, life
:04:41. > :04:48.in the Jungle is no good. How long have you been
:04:49. > :04:54.in the Jungle? All morning, there was a steady
:04:55. > :05:04.and peaceful exodus The demolition work due to start
:05:05. > :05:12.here tomorrow morning may have forced their hand,
:05:13. > :05:15.but it is still surprising perhaps that so many seemed willing
:05:16. > :05:17.to abandon their dreams of the UK This camp, awful as it was,
:05:18. > :05:22.had become a kind of home to many people, and this was in effect
:05:23. > :05:26.the main high street. Now it is more or less completely
:05:27. > :05:29.abandoned except for the people making their way up through the camp
:05:30. > :05:32.towards the areas where you queue And there are still some
:05:33. > :05:38.who are staying on here, undecided about where to go
:05:39. > :05:40.next still hoping to be Al Hassan studied chemical
:05:41. > :05:49.engineering in Basra, Iraq. He has spent the last year living
:05:50. > :05:52.in this hot with two friends, I am going to stay here,
:05:53. > :05:56.and sleep rough if necessary. Because we have families in the UK,
:05:57. > :05:59.and we need to go there Even when this whole
:06:00. > :06:09.camp is closed down? We are adamant and
:06:10. > :06:11.determined to stay here. Do you think that there could be
:06:12. > :06:16.violence when the police come This is something
:06:17. > :06:23.possible, but not sure. But violence is something
:06:24. > :06:27.that we got used to. Why not just go
:06:28. > :06:31.somewhere in France? You can see what a country
:06:32. > :06:34.France is. We have been living
:06:35. > :06:37.here for one year. No one cares about your medical
:06:38. > :06:40.situation. So we just got the impression that
:06:41. > :06:47.France is not good enough to take Some might trumpet this
:06:48. > :06:52.is the historic end of a bone of contention between Britain
:06:53. > :06:55.and France for years. But the Jungle isn't the first
:06:56. > :06:58.refugee camp in Calais, and this isn't the first time one
:06:59. > :07:04.has been closed down. TRANSLATION: The first certainty
:07:05. > :07:06.is that it is the end But the end of the migration
:07:07. > :07:11.question also depends on our relationship with the UK,
:07:12. > :07:14.and we're still fighting to make sure that the UK accepts
:07:15. > :07:16.unaccompanied minors who have families on the other
:07:17. > :07:18.side of the Channel. Efforts have been made,
:07:19. > :07:20.it's true, since the Amiens summit, Because as long as the UK refuses
:07:21. > :07:26.a legal process that immigration, notably for unaccompanied minors,
:07:27. > :07:28.then the situation will continue many locals were sceptical
:07:29. > :07:39.about what would happen next. There's been talk of migrants moving
:07:40. > :07:43.from here to nearby Dunkirk, and even returning to Calais
:07:44. > :07:46.after a few weeks in the reception the problem somewhere else,
:07:47. > :07:56.not necessarily in Calais They're probably going to move
:07:57. > :08:07.elsewhere like we saw with Sangat. It's a good thing for Syrian people
:08:08. > :08:10.and Eritrean, and also Because the camp decreases tourism
:08:11. > :08:19.and impacts the economy. Close to 2000 migrants
:08:20. > :08:21.were processed today, Authorities had hoped
:08:22. > :08:30.to move around 3000. But this is a big
:08:31. > :08:34.logistical challenge. Some would have to
:08:35. > :08:36.come back tomorrow. Other migrants were just watching,
:08:37. > :08:38.trying to plan their next move to get to Britain, like Mahmoud,
:08:39. > :08:41.who spent his teenage years in London as a child asylum seeker
:08:42. > :08:44.before being deported back years old, and you have been
:08:45. > :08:55.there six or seven years, and I'm going to force you to go
:08:56. > :08:58.back to your country, Can you stay in some
:08:59. > :09:02.other country? Because my mind is same
:09:03. > :09:06.like in the UK, I have a brother, Migrants and refugees have travelled
:09:07. > :09:12.for months and for many miles to get We met some who even arrived
:09:13. > :09:19.in Calais just last night. A lot now seem to have accepted
:09:20. > :09:23.they will never make it to the UK. But others still believe they can,
:09:24. > :09:26.and are willing to put up with conditions even worse
:09:27. > :09:32.than these to get there. Now, the Calais situation
:09:33. > :09:36.involves about 7,000 people. In the context of the bigger
:09:37. > :09:38.European migrant crisis, that is a number that's
:09:39. > :09:40.lost in the rounding. In fact, 7,000 people
:09:41. > :09:42.arrived on European By resolving Calais,
:09:43. > :09:50.we shouldn't kid ourselves that we're making much
:09:51. > :09:52.of an impression on But if the French do manage to sort
:09:53. > :09:56.out Calais, maybe they have a lesson or two that can be
:09:57. > :09:58.applied more generally. Our diplomatic editor
:09:59. > :10:01.Mark Urban has been looking at the bigger European picture,
:10:02. > :10:03.at a migrant crisis that has perhaps One year ago, hundreds of thousands
:10:04. > :10:13.were on the move across Europe. It was epic in scale,
:10:14. > :10:15.and posed a profound But the migrant issue has,
:10:16. > :10:21.for the past six months, I think far fewer people are coming
:10:22. > :10:29.through the western Balkans route since about March this
:10:30. > :10:30.year, when Merkel agreed The Western Balkans route has been
:10:31. > :10:36.closed and Turkey has imposed
:10:37. > :10:38.massive restrictions on the ability of Syrians to come
:10:39. > :10:41.across Turkey and come across via
:10:42. > :10:42.the Aegean route. So really, the door is closed
:10:43. > :10:48.to the Western Balkans route. Over 1 million migrants
:10:49. > :10:51.arrived in Europe in 2015. The number ten months into this year
:10:52. > :10:58.is dramatically lower, 341,000. since the main route via Greece
:10:59. > :11:03.and the Balkans was closed in March Most of those still arriving
:11:04. > :11:11.are coming via Libya and Italy, with small flows
:11:12. > :11:16.into Spain and Bulgaria. Arrivals in Italy, at 142,000
:11:17. > :11:19.so far this year, are up, but only by 2% on the same
:11:20. > :11:28.point in 2015. Most of those making the dangerous
:11:29. > :11:33.journey from Libya are Africans from countries like Gambia,
:11:34. > :11:35.Nigeria and Ghana. And having been rescued at sea,
:11:36. > :11:38.they won't find the better life Some say that 98% will be
:11:39. > :11:46.rejected for asylum. Not all will be sent home,
:11:47. > :11:49.because the legal systems are slow So what happens is, they get sucked
:11:50. > :11:54.into the informal economy. They get exploited, and eventually
:11:55. > :12:03.perhaps get sent home. As for those who make Italy
:12:04. > :12:06.or Greece and are accepted as refugees, an EU quota system
:12:07. > :12:08.to resettle them Just 6,243 refugees have been
:12:09. > :12:18.relocated in Europe. 1,392 from Italy,
:12:19. > :12:23.and 4,852 from Greece. Compare that to the 160,000 that EU
:12:24. > :12:25.countries pledged to welcome under quotas put forward
:12:26. > :12:33.by Jean-Claude Juncker a year ago. The Juncker relocation plan
:12:34. > :12:35.was doomed from the start. First of all, many European
:12:36. > :12:39.governments The Visegrad countries
:12:40. > :12:45.were opposed to it, but were strong-armed into agreeing
:12:46. > :12:48.it, mainly by Donald Tusk Secondly, the problem
:12:49. > :12:56.is within the Schengen area, even if we relocated people
:12:57. > :12:58.to one particular country, nothing would stop
:12:59. > :12:59.them moving onwards. Thirdly, it was only for 160,000
:13:00. > :13:01.refugees, a tiny
:13:02. > :13:04.proportion of the total. to believe it would never be
:13:05. > :13:07.implemented, and that of course has
:13:08. > :13:12.been the case. Those who made their way
:13:13. > :13:14.to the Jungle were often people who had slipped out of Italian
:13:15. > :13:16.reception centres, or made their way by
:13:17. > :13:18.other obscure routes. France's decision to process them
:13:19. > :13:21.now underlines the degree
:13:22. > :13:23.to which national answers have come to define Europe's response
:13:24. > :13:38.to this issue. Let's appraise what the French are
:13:39. > :13:40.doing, and CF it can be applied more widely.
:13:41. > :13:41.Catherine Woollard is the Secretary General
:13:42. > :13:43.of the European Council on Refugees and Exiles -
:13:44. > :13:51.Khalid Mahmood is Shadow Minister for Europe.
:13:52. > :13:57.Catherine Woollard, I'm interested in what you think the French are
:13:58. > :14:03.doing. Is this the right approach? I would start by quoting Lord dubs
:14:04. > :14:07.after his visit to Calais, in which he said this is a disgrace for
:14:08. > :14:11.Europe. Many of us would share that sentiment. Our members and
:14:12. > :14:14.organisations working to support refugees in Calais have supported
:14:15. > :14:19.the dismantling of the camp, but on condition that the people there have
:14:20. > :14:23.their rights protected. For example, we would urge the continuation of
:14:24. > :14:30.resettlement and transfer of unaccompanied children out of Calais
:14:31. > :14:35.to the UK, where they have a right under family reunification as well
:14:36. > :14:39.as under the Dubs Amendment, to be transferred. Do you not think it is
:14:40. > :14:42.reasonable for France to say to these people, you can't languish in
:14:43. > :14:49.Purgatory here, you have to apply for asylum here or fly home? Think
:14:50. > :14:54.of the damage they are doing to the community around Calais. Is it not
:14:55. > :14:57.reasonable to say, you have to apply? To some extent, this is what
:14:58. > :15:03.is happening with the dispersal of people across the country. But must
:15:04. > :15:06.remember that people have other rights. In some cases, there is a
:15:07. > :15:13.right to family reunification to join family members in the UK. In
:15:14. > :15:20.each case, the individual situation of the persons concerned should be
:15:21. > :15:23.assessed and on that basis that future decided. Do you basically
:15:24. > :15:29.think it is right to take these people away from Calais, which is
:15:30. > :15:35.coming to be a traumatised town, and put them in beds rather than in the
:15:36. > :15:39.mud, and said here, you are going to apply, and if you are successful,
:15:40. > :15:48.you will get a job and be paid while you wait to find out? Isn't that
:15:49. > :15:51.what you would do with refugees? This is why many of the
:15:52. > :15:54.organisations working in Calais do support the dismantling of the camp.
:15:55. > :15:58.But they want guarantees that people's rights to seek asylum
:15:59. > :16:02.within France, the right to shelter while they are being processed and
:16:03. > :16:05.so on will be respected. It is possible that people will end up in
:16:06. > :16:09.a situation that is worse than Calais. At least a certain
:16:10. > :16:13.infrastructure has developed within the camp. Widespread Khalid Mahmood,
:16:14. > :16:17.do you support what the French are doing? I don't support what they are
:16:18. > :16:22.doing necessarily. I do support the fact that people have been taken out
:16:23. > :16:30.of the Jungle and been given some habitable conditions to be in. But
:16:31. > :16:33.this is the third rerun of a similar situation since Sangatte. There
:16:34. > :16:37.doesn't appear to be any learning of lessons as to why it keeps happening
:16:38. > :16:41.here. We should look at the lessons from Greece and probably Turkey
:16:42. > :16:45.before that. We haven't done that. The Council of Europe has failed.
:16:46. > :16:48.The leadership of the councils of ministers have failed and the
:16:49. > :16:52.leaders have failed to look at this strategically as a whole. So
:16:53. > :16:56.everyone agrees that Europe has failed and it hasn't worked very
:16:57. > :17:00.well, but what the French are doing, which is a national policy, they
:17:01. > :17:04.cannot dictate what happens in Athens, but they can dictate what
:17:05. > :17:07.happens in Calais, you support bossing people out of Calais and
:17:08. > :17:12.putting them into reception centres and more or less forcing them to
:17:13. > :17:16.apply for asylum or saying you have a few choices? I support people
:17:17. > :17:20.being taken to habitable conditions where they can be treated medically
:17:21. > :17:24.and move forward. Where there are doing it today, they haven't got
:17:25. > :17:29.enough buses and they are forcing people to stand in queues. This
:17:30. > :17:31.could have been done better by selecting different cohorts of
:17:32. > :17:36.people, whether it is young people or elderly people and then men at
:17:37. > :17:42.last. This has not been done with a plan. Well, it is not a thing that
:17:43. > :17:48.happens very often. Today they bust 2000 people. But this is Europe. We
:17:49. > :17:52.supposed to be civilised people. We are supposed to get these things
:17:53. > :17:59.right and look after people's human rights. What about the rights of the
:18:00. > :18:02.migrants in Athens, who are languishing on the streets,
:18:03. > :18:07.thousands of people. Is it not reasonable to say, this can't go on
:18:08. > :18:11.in Europe, we are going to take you and ask you to apply and if you are
:18:12. > :18:16.allowed to stay, you stay, and if not, we send you home? I agree. We
:18:17. > :18:21.should have done that from the start. Everyone agrees we would
:18:22. > :18:26.rather not be where we are. Catherine Woollard, am I right into
:18:27. > :18:32.King now, maybe for the first time, a lot of the migrants themselves are
:18:33. > :18:38.saying yes, we should apply for asylum in France, we are tired of
:18:39. > :18:42.hanging around in the mud? It seems that there will be more asylum
:18:43. > :18:47.applications in France. I think the situation in Calais needs to be seen
:18:48. > :18:53.in the context of the wider crisis within Europe. It's not just about
:18:54. > :18:57.Calais, it is also about Greece, as you have mentioned. We are arguing
:18:58. > :19:00.for appropriate standards across Europe so that wherever people are,
:19:01. > :19:05.they can apply and receive protection in those countries. One
:19:06. > :19:09.of the fundamental questions is why people don't apply in certain
:19:10. > :19:13.countries, and that is often because those countries cannot guarantee
:19:14. > :19:17.their safety. But isn't it because they would rather be in other
:19:18. > :19:20.countries, and Europe at this point would probably say, we can't offer
:19:21. > :19:29.you the luxury of choosing, you have to apply in the country in which you
:19:30. > :19:33.currently reside? Well, it is more complex than that. There is the
:19:34. > :19:37.right to family reunification. In some cases, people have the right to
:19:38. > :19:41.apply in another country, and this is part of the Dublin regulation. In
:19:42. > :19:45.other cases, let's look at the reasons why people want to apply in
:19:46. > :19:50.a particular country. It is partly to do with language, partly to do
:19:51. > :19:55.with family but also to do with wider community and the diversity of
:19:56. > :19:58.particular countries, with economic prospects. Ultimately, insisting
:19:59. > :20:02.that people apply in certain countries were continued the
:20:03. > :20:05.situation where there are humanitarian crises in parts of
:20:06. > :20:10.Europe because the asylum systems can't cope. People's prospects for
:20:11. > :20:16.integration, which is the long term aim for those afforded refugee
:20:17. > :20:20.status, will be better if there is some element of preference in where
:20:21. > :20:28.they go. Do you agree with that, Khalid Mahmood? Obviously, if they
:20:29. > :20:31.have families, it is different. But our government should have lived up
:20:32. > :20:36.to its commitment of taking unaccompanied children into this
:20:37. > :20:41.country. Very quickly, one idea for different is that they move the
:20:42. > :20:44.border back to the UK. Their presidential candidate has mentioned
:20:45. > :20:49.this. I expect it would not get approval from the Labour Party. It
:20:50. > :20:51.is not approved by anybody. We have to treat these people as human
:20:52. > :20:57.beings. Thank you both very much. Now, we've all had deeply
:20:58. > :20:58.frustrating meetings, so we can sympathise
:20:59. > :21:00.with Nicola Sturgeon, It was a gathering at Number 10
:21:01. > :21:04.of the big chiefs But Scotland's First Minister came
:21:05. > :21:10.out and said she'd learnt nothing about the Government's
:21:11. > :21:11.plans, and that a hard What she wants, and many others,
:21:12. > :21:16.I suspect, is for different parts of the UK to have different
:21:17. > :21:18.relationships with the EU, Where will the hard borders be inked
:21:19. > :21:28.in when the United Kingdom Might Brexit mean four different
:21:29. > :21:34.things in the UK's four nations? Today, a meeting was held
:21:35. > :21:36.at Downing Street to start
:21:37. > :21:38.the formal process to consult the devolved administrations
:21:39. > :21:43.on how Brexit might work. Now, the starting point
:21:44. > :21:46.for everything is that the whole UK should leave together,
:21:47. > :21:50.but there is a consensus around special treatment
:21:51. > :21:53.for Northern Ireland. While Northern Ireland
:21:54. > :21:57.is expected to leave the EU, Ireland and the UK want a soft
:21:58. > :22:02.with minimal border checking to help maintain the Good Friday agreement.
:22:03. > :22:07.So Northern Ireland might not end up feeling like it's left.
:22:08. > :22:13.is pitching for something more radical for Scotland.
:22:14. > :22:15.If we refresh our memories around the vote,
:22:16. > :22:20.all of Scotland's 32 local authorities voted
:22:21. > :22:24.So that is our First Minister's starting mandate
:22:25. > :22:31.and indeed the Scottish Parliament, who have given her their support
:22:32. > :22:32.in retaining our single market membership.
:22:33. > :22:35.So any negotiations with the Prime Minister should have that
:22:36. > :22:42.at the forefront in terms of absolute democracy.
:22:43. > :22:47.Scotland staying in the single market even if the rest of the UK
:22:48. > :22:49.leaves would be a big move, being open to EU migration, say,
:22:50. > :22:52.while the rest of the country has a more closed approach.
:22:53. > :22:54.Still, since there's been talk of a special deal
:22:55. > :22:57.for the City of London, why not Scotland, ask the SNP?
:22:58. > :23:00.But the idea of a city trade deal is not literally
:23:01. > :23:01.about the geographical city of London,
:23:02. > :23:05.they mean the financial services sector as a whole.
:23:06. > :23:09.So it's not a plan for a special geographical carve-out.
:23:10. > :23:13.So might ministers' plans for the island of Ireland
:23:14. > :23:16.prove a model for what the SNP wants to do in Scotland?
:23:17. > :23:23.What ministers plan for Ireland is relatively straightforward.
:23:24. > :23:26.They want the border between the Republic of Ireland,
:23:27. > :23:28.which will be in the EU, and Northern Ireland,
:23:29. > :23:30.which will be out of the EU, to be relatively porous.
:23:31. > :23:35.than having a portion of the United Kingdom
:23:36. > :23:39.enter the European single market on its own.
:23:40. > :23:44.And the reason for that complexity is actually painted here,
:23:45. > :23:47.on the walls of Central Lobby in the Houses of Parliament.
:23:48. > :23:51.St Andrew is still up there because Scotland is still in the UK,
:23:52. > :23:56.and so not permitted to negotiate any such deals itself.
:23:57. > :24:00.This plan would need, for a start, the UK Government
:24:01. > :24:08.There was a very frank exchange of views.
:24:09. > :24:11.In parts of the meeting, it was deeply frustrating.
:24:12. > :24:14.I don't know any more now about the UK Government's approach
:24:15. > :24:17.to the EU negotiation than I did before I went into the meeting,
:24:18. > :24:26.I think we all hoped to have more set out
:24:27. > :24:28.in terms of the high-level principles at least,
:24:29. > :24:31.that the lack of detail was because the UK Government
:24:32. > :24:34.doesn't yet know what it is trying to achieve.
:24:35. > :24:36.In truth, though, our internal arguments may be moot.
:24:37. > :24:38.Europe might simply not buy a plan like this.
:24:39. > :24:43.I've not seen any credible worked up proposal of how that would work.
:24:44. > :24:47.As far as I'm aware, there's no relevant precedent
:24:48. > :24:51.What we have seen in some other member states
:24:52. > :24:53.is special bespoke deals for particular territories,
:24:54. > :25:01.normally quite small, isolated islands.
:25:02. > :25:05.The SNP did not want the result we got on June 23rd.
:25:06. > :25:07.But the vote demonstrated a very clear division
:25:08. > :25:09.between England and Wales on one side,
:25:10. > :25:18.Quite a helpful point for a party committed to Scottish independence.
:25:19. > :25:28.Our political editor Nick Watt is here.
:25:29. > :25:35.So it sounds like quite a scratchy meeting. Yes, you saw Nicola
:25:36. > :25:38.Sturgeon they're saying how frustrated it was that she learned
:25:39. > :25:41.nothing. She feels that the UK doesn't have a negotiating strategy
:25:42. > :25:45.and she fears that Scotland may be driven off what she called a hard
:25:46. > :25:48.Brexit cliff edge. That matters because at her party Conference
:25:49. > :25:52.earlier this month, Nicola Sturgeon said that if there is a hard Brexit,
:25:53. > :25:56.which she defines as taking Scotland out of the single market, she
:25:57. > :25:59.reserves the right to demand a second independence referendum.
:26:00. > :26:04.Theresa May has said she has no mandate for that and today she said,
:26:05. > :26:09.you should not seek to undermine the one UK negotiation on Brexit. But
:26:10. > :26:12.some of the SNP's opponents in Scotland are said to Theresa May,
:26:13. > :26:16.you need to tread with care. Paul Sinclair, one of the leading lights
:26:17. > :26:19.in the better together group, the pro-UK group in the first
:26:20. > :26:23.independence referendum, he wrote in the Scottish Daily Mail today that
:26:24. > :26:29.the SNP may be able to achieve what he called Scotland The Brave if they
:26:30. > :26:34.can portray themselves as Scotland the insulted. Theresa May gave a
:26:35. > :26:40.statement this afternoon about the European Council meeting she was at.
:26:41. > :26:43.Did you learn anything? We learned at two interesting things. We
:26:44. > :26:46.learned some interesting things about the timing of the
:26:47. > :26:50.negotiations. She said she wants the negotiations that will lead to
:26:51. > :26:54.Brexit, the two-year negotiation, to take place at the same time as the
:26:55. > :26:57.negotiations on what will follow. It had been assumed that the framework
:26:58. > :26:59.for what will follow would have to wait. She said she would like to
:27:00. > :27:25.happen at the same time. She said that in answer to a
:27:26. > :27:27.question from Sir Edward Leigh, the veteran Tory Eurosceptic. She said
:27:28. > :27:30.she agreed with him that she wanted a free trade deal done by that time.
:27:31. > :27:33.I understand that Theresa May is not thinking of a free trade deal with
:27:34. > :27:35.the European Union, she is thinking of something far more ambitious. She
:27:36. > :27:38.is thinking of a comprehensive relationship with the EU that will
:27:39. > :27:40.not just cover trade, but will cover issues like counterterrorism. She
:27:41. > :27:43.thinks that once you have the French election out of the way next spring,
:27:44. > :27:45.the German election out of the way next autumn, there will be reality
:27:46. > :27:47.and the European Union will realise it is in their interests to have a
:27:48. > :27:50.trade and counterterrorism relationship. She can't shout about
:27:51. > :27:52.that and that is why Nicola Sturgeon is so frustrated.
:27:53. > :27:53.The week-old offensive against so-called Islamic State
:27:54. > :27:56.in Mosul is progressing, and as was widely predicted
:27:57. > :27:58.when it was launched, it's a slow and painstaking campaign.
:27:59. > :28:01.But while there is precious little clarity about what will happen
:28:02. > :28:04.to Mosul when IS is defeated there, it is certainly important to keep
:28:05. > :28:06.remembering just how grim the IS occupation has been.
:28:07. > :28:09.Newsnight has spoken to one woman who says she escaped from Mosul
:28:10. > :28:12.in August, and she's given us a vivid description of life
:28:13. > :28:15.under IS and we very much want to present it to you,
:28:16. > :28:17.so we've put a voice and animations to her words.
:28:18. > :28:20.However, we do need to be clear that we don't actually
:28:21. > :28:25.She was introduced to us by the writer of a blog called
:28:26. > :28:28.Mosul Eye, which has been communicating the plight of the city
:28:29. > :28:32.for over two years, but the author of that is also anonymous.
:28:33. > :28:34.We've done as much due diligence as we can,
:28:35. > :28:37.but you can never vouch 100% for the reliability
:28:38. > :28:43.It's because it's so hazardous for people to give us this kind
:28:44. > :28:47.of testimony, though, that we think you should see it.
:28:48. > :28:51.I used to walk down the street seeing the mix of every colour that
:28:52. > :28:59.This is one of the most famous old markets in the city.
:29:00. > :29:03.It used to be filled with people, especially women.
:29:04. > :29:07.Because it is known for its famous stores of women's clothing.
:29:08. > :29:12.One time, this street used to be filled with people.
:29:13. > :29:15.Now, most of the stores have been abandoned.
:29:16. > :29:20.The Islamic State has forced people, especially women, not to dress up
:29:21. > :29:32.I try to be as invisible as I can, so I dress up all in black
:29:33. > :29:37.and I walk down the street hoping that the Hisbah, the religious
:29:38. > :29:40.security men, won't see any flesh showing of my hand or my foot,
:29:41. > :29:43.so I won't give them any kind of excuse to stop me.
:29:44. > :29:49.There was this old woman in front of me with her daughter.
:29:50. > :29:57.They usually force even older women to wear black scarves.
:29:58. > :30:00.The Hisbah went ahead and stopped her.
:30:01. > :30:03.They tried to take her in order to punish her publicly,
:30:04. > :30:09.She was like, you really think that you are the guards
:30:10. > :30:14.You think that you know our religion better than us?
:30:15. > :30:16.You think that you have the authority over us
:30:17. > :30:31.And those men that she was talking to, they were teens.
:30:32. > :30:38.Quickly, a scene created, where other men joined these women,
:30:39. > :30:46.Their presence frightened the Hisbah.
:30:47. > :30:50.They had this kind of message with their silence
:30:51. > :31:00.It somehow broke my heart to see this, that even though they walk
:31:01. > :31:05.down the street with their self-claimed power and clinging
:31:06. > :31:08.to their weapons, believing that they are really controlling
:31:09. > :31:10.the city, but underneath the surface, underneath the surface
:31:11. > :31:16.This city hasn't really surrendered as much to Isil
:31:17. > :31:22.Yes, they are silent, but they are really
:31:23. > :31:28.Whatever you may have read about medieval times,
:31:29. > :31:32.they are practising that on our people in Mosul.
:31:33. > :31:35.One time, I was walking down in the market trying to reach one
:31:36. > :31:40.On my way, I was stopped by the Hisbah and forcefully asked
:31:41. > :31:47.It was very, very terrifying what I saw over there.
:31:48. > :31:52.They brought the men, they were handcuffed.
:31:53. > :31:56.They got them on their knees on the ground, and they started
:31:57. > :32:02.For being an apostate, we heard you cursing God.
:32:03. > :32:11.I see one giant man, all in black, covering his face
:32:12. > :32:18.The crowd was big, and what disturbed me the most
:32:19. > :32:21.is that there are so many children in this crowd, especially young
:32:22. > :32:25.boys, the age of six and seven years old.
:32:26. > :32:30.The day was hot, and those young boys were eating their ice cream.
:32:31. > :32:35.They were eating their ice cream and they start the executions.
:32:36. > :32:45.They were like, no, no, just wait, it is going to get more exciting.
:32:46. > :32:48.We have a couple of your sisters here to be punished.
:32:49. > :32:55.One of them was not wearing the longer skirt
:32:56. > :33:06.And I just fled the scene along with everybody else until I made it
:33:07. > :33:14.I was so sick of what I had seen, and I really couldn't sleep.
:33:15. > :33:17.Just thinking about what I had seen, and whether I would ever
:33:18. > :33:26.We kind of created our own lives within our worlds.
:33:27. > :33:31.Everybody has created their own world within their home.
:33:32. > :33:33.Completely different from what is outside.
:33:34. > :33:42.They are literally so tired of the entire situation.
:33:43. > :33:45.And they are basically set up to be killed one way or another.
:33:46. > :34:10.Of user of life in Mosul under so-called Islamic State.
:34:11. > :34:14.We all know - even if only from those that have been through it -
:34:15. > :34:17.that pregnancy is a challenge for the mother, but a film to be
:34:18. > :34:19.released next month documents the history of a very difficult
:34:20. > :34:21.pregnancy, primarily through the eyes of the father.
:34:22. > :34:25.No, this is me making you less anxious
:34:26. > :34:28.if you'd just listen to the content of what I'm actually saying here.
:34:29. > :34:44.There are two ways of looking at that central character, Josh,
:34:45. > :34:47.in this film: a devoted husband struggling to manage his complex
:34:48. > :34:50.feelings during his wife's pregnancy and feeling helpless in the face
:34:51. > :34:52.of the problems, or as a bit self-absorbed.
:34:53. > :34:54.But common to both those views is that pregnancy and childbirth
:34:55. > :34:57.do affect the father, even if he is meant to be nothing
:34:58. > :35:02.I'm pleased to say we have both Josh and Devora from the film with us.
:35:03. > :35:06.And Josh actually made the film as well.
:35:07. > :35:17.Good evening. How do you think he looked in the film, how do you think
:35:18. > :35:24.he comes across, Devora? That is a good question. He does a very honest
:35:25. > :35:30.portrait of himself. I admire his honesty in choosing to figure
:35:31. > :35:35.himself that way, comically. He takes a holiday at the time of the
:35:36. > :35:40.20 week scan, and a lot of us would say, that is just a tiny bit
:35:41. > :35:47.selfish. I don't always want to be with him, actually, amazingly. I
:35:48. > :35:52.recognised that he needed a break before he wouldn't have another one.
:35:53. > :35:57.We hadn't done it before, so we didn't realise quite how important
:35:58. > :36:01.the 20 week scan is. There is a touch of self satire when you form a
:36:02. > :36:06.narrative, but I am all of those things. He is!
:36:07. > :36:11.Is there a difference in male and female responses to it? Do men and
:36:12. > :36:17.women differ in their responses to it? In the end, the film gets quite
:36:18. > :36:20.difficult and things go wrong, so people's responses are generally
:36:21. > :36:27.kind because we went through a tough thing in the end. Men seem to
:36:28. > :36:33.identify with if not me exactly some of the things that come up. Just
:36:34. > :36:38.explain in a nutshell why you think pregnancy is difficult for dads.
:36:39. > :36:42.What is difficult about it? You are not carrying the thing, not going
:36:43. > :36:47.through the whole minds. Exactly, we are not carrying the thing! We feel
:36:48. > :36:52.that we're supposed to be maybe different from our Fathers'
:36:53. > :36:55.generation, new men, not the old kind, we supposed to be more
:36:56. > :36:59.emotionally present, physically present, are we happy about that? Is
:37:00. > :37:06.it difficult? Is our role in question? I think there is a kind of
:37:07. > :37:10.envy. There is this woman doing this incredible creative act which is the
:37:11. > :37:18.one thing that no matter what else, you cannot do. It is true, Devorah,
:37:19. > :37:21.the mother- child bond is one, you go back into mythology, it is a
:37:22. > :37:26.tight one, and maybe it is difficult for the man because he is a bit
:37:27. > :37:32.jealous? The notion of competition between the sexes and envy of my
:37:33. > :37:36.creative life and him reacting by picking up a camera and trying to
:37:37. > :37:41.make a movie, and the way in which the movie and the baby evolved
:37:42. > :37:46.together, so the moment I did after a lot of years of trying conceive a
:37:47. > :37:50.child, and he suddenly after a lot of years of trying, conceived a film
:37:51. > :37:55.at the same time, and it took us quite a long time before we realised
:37:56. > :37:58.that he was also the father of the child and I was also the director of
:37:59. > :38:01.the film, we didn't really understand that these projects were
:38:02. > :38:07.mutual until they were over in some way. Josh, it is interesting because
:38:08. > :38:10.you in the film have a number of conversations with friends and other
:38:11. > :38:14.people about what it is to be a father, including your own father.
:38:15. > :38:19.Things have changed quite a lot over the generations. Even he says in the
:38:20. > :38:23.film, it was an anthropological divide between me and my father, he
:38:24. > :38:28.was completely unreachable and impossible, very hyper masculine, so
:38:29. > :38:32.I think every generation goes through a phase of thinking we are
:38:33. > :38:35.the new men and we have to be different, but there is a specific
:38:36. > :38:41.flavour of that. Do men find it a bit hard generally to talk about
:38:42. > :38:50.their responses, their jealousy, their sudden conflict of Will they
:38:51. > :38:54.lose their masculinity because they are becoming domestic? It is rare to
:38:55. > :38:58.see it portrayed intimately in a real way, but what we get together,
:38:59. > :39:04.the main thing we complain about is how clap we are is parents and we
:39:05. > :39:07.should be better and we feel guilty that we are not. The cliche is that
:39:08. > :39:15.men get together and complain about their wives, but the truth is that
:39:16. > :39:22.they are lashing themselves, whether that was true 40 years ago, I don't
:39:23. > :39:25.know. Devorah, not many mothers have a
:39:26. > :39:33.chance to look back at the tapes of your pregnancy, you have everything
:39:34. > :39:41.in balance, so what would be the advice, what does a good,
:39:42. > :39:52.supportive, devoted father do? What is my advice to men? My advice is
:39:53. > :39:59.this. Collaborate with your woman, your partner who, whoever your
:40:00. > :40:03.partner is, because it is a partnership, and in our partnership,
:40:04. > :40:11.it took on this mantle of the Battle of the sexes somehow. No, it didn't!
:40:12. > :40:15.Should the ideal husband open up to the emotions and anxieties they
:40:16. > :40:23.have, or should they shut up in order to be strong? I very strongly
:40:24. > :40:29.feel that there should be talking about their anxieties, and showing a
:40:30. > :40:36.man like this in a setting that tends to be more female, the home,
:40:37. > :40:40.the labour ward, the nursery, traditionally, and showing a man in
:40:41. > :40:44.these settings going through his own crisis and his response to that
:40:45. > :40:47.seems to me to be a very useful contribution. The film opens next
:40:48. > :41:02.month. Thank you very much indeed. A quick look at the papers. The
:41:03. > :41:05.Daily Mail leading an Brits catching Zika in Florida. The Telly della
:41:06. > :41:14.Graaf, Boris plots to block Heathrow expansion. -- the Daily Telegraph.
:41:15. > :41:20.Also an item there, Trump campaign group in candle over illicit
:41:21. > :41:27.donations. And the guardian leading as we did on Calle, the council is
:41:28. > :41:29.resisting pressure to take children. And women are getting as much as men
:41:30. > :41:31.according to a study. We leave you with '80s
:41:32. > :41:34.pop star Pete Burns, whose death was announced today
:41:35. > :41:37.at the age of 57. Here he is at the height
:41:38. > :41:39.of his fame, owning Top of the Pops with his band,
:41:40. > :41:42.Dead or Alive. # I set my sights on you
:41:43. > :41:45.(and no one else will do) # And I, I've got to
:41:46. > :41:52.have my way now, baby # Right round like a record,
:41:53. > :42:12.baby # Right round like a record,
:42:13. > :42:22.baby