:00:00. > :00:07.It's seen two of its top figures quit in as many months.
:00:08. > :00:10.Tonight, new disclosures about problems at the heart
:00:11. > :00:14.of the independent child sexual abuse inquiry.
:00:15. > :00:18.Also tonight, the first British TV interview with the man who created
:00:19. > :00:22.the image of Donald Trump with the book The Art of the Deal
:00:23. > :00:25.and who is now doing everything in his power to stop him getting
:00:26. > :00:31.He was sociopathic in the classic sense.
:00:32. > :00:40.Telling a lie did not bother him one bit.
:00:41. > :00:43.Shame, sex, honour and blackmail, how modern technology is making
:00:44. > :00:44.the lives of women in some conservative societies
:00:45. > :00:57.The video I received shows me with my husband, naked, having sex.
:00:58. > :00:59.He told me, "I was filming the whole time.
:01:00. > :01:17.It's been a turbulent few months for the Independent Inquiry
:01:18. > :01:21.It's seen the resignations of a third chairwoman
:01:22. > :01:24.The circumstances surrounding the departure of both
:01:25. > :01:30.figures remain hazy, to say the least.
:01:31. > :01:33.But tonight Newsnight can reveal that the inquiry
:01:34. > :01:37.faces its potentially most challenging criticism yet,
:01:38. > :01:41.that it was aware of an allegation that a leading figure on the inquiry
:01:42. > :01:44.had sexually assaulted a colleague, but was allowed to resign
:01:45. > :01:58.Jake Morris has this exclusive report.
:01:59. > :02:04.The independent enquiry into child sexual abuse was set up to
:02:05. > :02:10.investigate claims that a raft of institutions from police to the BBC
:02:11. > :02:15.had swept serious allegations under the carpet for decades. The
:02:16. > :02:20.departure of the enquiry's third share, Dame Lowell Goddard, who
:02:21. > :02:25.denies making racist remarks, has left politicians having to fend off
:02:26. > :02:30.charges they too have swept away serious claims. There were stories
:02:31. > :02:34.about the enquiry and individuals related to the enquiry but the Home
:02:35. > :02:44.Secretary cannot intervene on the basis of suspicion all rumour or
:02:45. > :02:47.hearsay. Now the enquiry faces a potentially more serious allegation.
:02:48. > :02:51.Newsnight has heard of a claim a senior figure on the enquiry
:02:52. > :02:56.sexually assaulted a colleague. It seems an investigation into that
:02:57. > :03:01.senior figure's behaviour has been quietly shelved. He resigned but is
:03:02. > :03:06.working at home on a hand over document to his successor and in
:03:07. > :03:11.that time the enquiry will pay him around ?55,000. It goes to the heart
:03:12. > :03:15.of what responsibility and organisation has to act on suspicion
:03:16. > :03:19.of wrongdoing, even in cases where it appears the alleged victim did
:03:20. > :03:23.not want to make an official complaint. The incident at the
:03:24. > :03:29.centre of the story is alleged to have taken place in the enquiry's
:03:30. > :03:34.headquarters. In early September, two colleagues, one male, one
:03:35. > :03:40.female, entered Millbank Tower and took the lift to the enquiry offices
:03:41. > :03:45.on the 23rd floor. Inside the lift, the man allegedly pushes the woman
:03:46. > :03:50.against the side of the lift and gropes her between the legs. That
:03:51. > :03:56.same day, the alleged victim gave an account of the incident. Newsnight
:03:57. > :04:00.understands in late September, the enquiry chair Alexis Jay and her
:04:01. > :04:06.panel became aware of it. They had serious concerns over the conduct of
:04:07. > :04:11.this man, Ben Emmerson, deputy High Court judge, a barrister of the year
:04:12. > :04:15.and most senior barrister on the entire enquiry. Now he had been
:04:16. > :04:21.named in the account of the alleged sexual assault. At the time the
:04:22. > :04:30.circumstances of the departure of Lowell Goddard put the enquiry under
:04:31. > :04:35.scrutiny. The victim did not want to make a formal complaint. The trouble
:04:36. > :04:40.spilled into the open with the Times reporting Ben Emmerson was
:04:41. > :04:44.considering quitting as lead counsel. That evening he was
:04:45. > :05:01.suspended. Alexis Jay said... Ben Emmerson said the first he knew
:05:02. > :05:06.of his suspension was when he was contacted by the media. Just over 24
:05:07. > :05:12.hours later more news from the enquiry. Ben Emmerson, the most
:05:13. > :05:15.senior lawyer working for the independent enquiry into historical
:05:16. > :05:19.child sexual abuse in England and Wales has resigned. It looked like
:05:20. > :05:24.the enquiry had got its way and whatever problems there may had been
:05:25. > :05:29.with Ben Emmerson, they would be no longer. Suggestions the tension of
:05:30. > :05:40.the previous night had been forgotten. He said in his letter...
:05:41. > :05:47.No reference was made to his suspension. 24 hours after
:05:48. > :05:49.suspending Ben Emmerson, the professor gave a tribute, she
:05:50. > :05:55.said... Furthermore she endorsed his
:05:56. > :06:14.reasoning for his departure. Again, there was no reference to his
:06:15. > :06:19.suspension or any concerns about his leadership and no suggestion that
:06:20. > :06:26.any investigation continues. Why was Ben Emmerson suspended? He is being
:06:27. > :06:30.paid ?1700 a day by the enquiry until the end of November. In terms
:06:31. > :06:37.of what happened, the enquiry will not say. I cannot discuss anything
:06:38. > :06:42.to do with his circumstances. The problem for the enquiry is that it
:06:43. > :06:45.is all a bit too convenient. The handling of the departure of the
:06:46. > :06:50.third chair appears similar. Lowell Goddard was we were led to believe
:06:51. > :06:54.homesick but reports in the Times newspaper painted a picture of
:06:55. > :06:59.dysfunction with her at the helm and even claims of racism. Again the
:07:00. > :07:03.enquiry says the details are private. Newsnight spoke to someone
:07:04. > :07:08.close to the enquiry who paints a picture of a broken institution. One
:07:09. > :07:13.that is so dysfunctional that if people needed to raise concerns, is
:07:14. > :07:18.the culture made it impossible for them to do so. It described the
:07:19. > :07:22.departure of Ben Emmerson as a kind of cover up the enquiry should
:07:23. > :07:27.uncover and until it can confront the reality of what has happened
:07:28. > :07:31.inside it, it will struggle to investigate others. The allegation
:07:32. > :07:35.of sexual assault is of course unproven. Newsnight has only named
:07:36. > :07:40.Ben Emmerson because it would be impossible to tell the story
:07:41. > :07:44.otherwise. His legal representative said his client denied any claim of
:07:45. > :08:00.wrong doing. The child abuse enquiry said...
:08:01. > :08:07.Newsnight has contacted the alleged victim of the sexual assault. Her
:08:08. > :08:11.lawyers refused to comment. Nobody ever imagines the official enquiry
:08:12. > :08:16.into child sexual abuse would have to deal with the disclosure of an
:08:17. > :08:19.alleged assault involving its own workers and handling such sensitive
:08:20. > :08:24.allegations, particularly when the alleged victim does not want matters
:08:25. > :08:28.taken further, can leave any organisation struggling to balance
:08:29. > :08:33.competing duties but some believe that by allowing Ben Emmerson to
:08:34. > :08:37.step down without proper investigation, the enquiry has left
:08:38. > :08:46.itself exposed to claims it behaves note if Ridley from those it seeks
:08:47. > :08:51.to pass judgment on. Ben Emmerson's lawyers said he categorically denies
:08:52. > :08:55.any sexual assault, any bullying or any misconduct at the enquiry and
:08:56. > :09:02.any allegations are completely false. I spoke to a Labour MP who
:09:03. > :09:11.has previously raised questions about the enquiry. It is the latest
:09:12. > :09:16.and probably the most serious to date of a series of allegations that
:09:17. > :09:20.have emerged in recent weeks. The allegations date back not just over
:09:21. > :09:25.recent months but some considerable time and paint a picture of an
:09:26. > :09:32.enquiry that was setup in order to shine a spotlight on institutions
:09:33. > :09:38.that had become by denial, secrecy and cover-up. Taking on some of
:09:39. > :09:42.those characteristics itself. I think the latest allegations raise
:09:43. > :09:47.serious questions of confidence for survivors and if this enquiry is to
:09:48. > :09:53.succeed, which it must, it must proceed on a different basis based
:09:54. > :09:58.on transparency and openness and the ability of people who raised
:09:59. > :10:03.concerns to be heard. To be fair to the enquiry, the alleged victim did
:10:04. > :10:08.not want this investigated. Did the enquiry really do anything wrong? It
:10:09. > :10:14.seems inconceivable given the scale of the dysfunction that has now been
:10:15. > :10:18.revealed in enquiry over several months and the seriousness of these
:10:19. > :10:22.allegations that there were not a number of people who were working on
:10:23. > :10:28.all connected to the enquiry who were aware of the allegations. It
:10:29. > :10:33.seems to me the Home Office has serious questions to answer as to
:10:34. > :10:38.the level of oversight of this enquiry. It is on its fourth chair
:10:39. > :10:45.in two years. They have lost five senior legal counsel during that
:10:46. > :10:49.time and is well as being of profound importance of the country
:10:50. > :10:53.there are huge questions of public money involved in these decisions.
:10:54. > :10:58.You talked about the confidence of survivors and victims. Diouf think
:10:59. > :11:07.the whole thing needs to start again? A new chair has been
:11:08. > :11:12.appointed -- do you think? Going forward the enquiry needs
:11:13. > :11:15.transparency, openness, a willingness to hear when problems
:11:16. > :11:19.occur and treat people properly and support them to be able to blow the
:11:20. > :11:26.whistle and make sure those concerns are acted on and what we have got is
:11:27. > :11:31.a series of allegations about very serious goings on in this enquiry
:11:32. > :11:36.that don't appear to have been acted upon by ministers over a long period
:11:37. > :11:40.of time, these being the latest. Some of the individuals concerned in
:11:41. > :11:47.these allegations are still being paid by the enquiry using public
:11:48. > :11:52.money and that is why we need ministers to come clean about what
:11:53. > :11:54.they knew and why no action has been taken and to constitute the enquiry
:11:55. > :11:56.on a different basis. Thanks. Today saw two of the most solid
:11:57. > :11:59.pieces of good economic news Growth figures today
:12:00. > :12:04.were better than expected, 0.5% as opposed to expected 0.3%,
:12:05. > :12:06.and the government announced that not only is Nissan
:12:07. > :12:09.staying put in Sunderland, there will be two new models
:12:10. > :12:11.on the production line, Both the government and Nissan
:12:12. > :12:17.insist no sweetheart deals have been done but does today's announcement
:12:18. > :12:21.indicate that the car industry is going to be judged a special
:12:22. > :12:25.case in EU negotiations? And if so, what other sectors might
:12:26. > :12:27.be in the same boat? Well, our policy editor,
:12:28. > :12:42.Chris Cook, is here along You have received information about
:12:43. > :12:47.the conversations between the government and this. We have gone
:12:48. > :12:52.from the chief of Nissan raising questions about its future in the UK
:12:53. > :12:56.to the vote of confidence today. As I understand it this and has heard
:12:57. > :13:02.three messages in meetings with government ministers and officials
:13:03. > :13:06.that have given it confidence it can compete with European rivals once
:13:07. > :13:11.the UK leaves the EU. They have been told, look at the substance of what
:13:12. > :13:16.the Prime Minister is saying about the EU and Brexit. Yes, she says she
:13:17. > :13:23.is taking the UK out and taking back control of the immigration and the
:13:24. > :13:28.ECJ will not have jurisdiction over the UK, but she is saying she wants
:13:29. > :13:32.to trade freely within the single market which means the strongest
:13:33. > :13:37.access with the single market outside membership. Secondly a
:13:38. > :13:41.question mark has been placed over whether there is a hard Brexit there
:13:42. > :13:47.would be tariffs on the Nissan car is going to Europe. Think of the
:13:48. > :13:51.Audis, BMWs, coming from the consulate to hear, would they want
:13:52. > :13:55.tariffs placed on them? And the icing on the cake, the government
:13:56. > :14:00.has said to Nissan we are proud of our industrial strategy and at the
:14:01. > :14:05.top of the list of priorities will be the car industry and new
:14:06. > :14:12.technology, driverless and electric cars. Who is investing in those?
:14:13. > :14:16.Nissan. And in the past with new technology, you have had tax
:14:17. > :14:20.subsidies you have been able to do under state aid rules and possibly
:14:21. > :14:27.it will not be trade distorting. They have been left with no specific
:14:28. > :14:32.commitments. It is worth thinking about why is it the government
:14:33. > :14:38.cannot just say if they put ?1000 of tariff on this and we would pay
:14:39. > :14:44.?1000 a head, why not go for that? It is the words trade distorting. If
:14:45. > :14:51.we negotiate a deal with the EU, good market terms, we will not want
:14:52. > :14:57.to appear to subsidise the industry. Secondly there are rules through the
:14:58. > :15:03.WTO about trade distorting subsidies. The system works in that
:15:04. > :15:08.we should aim for fewer subsidies and fewer tariffs. None of this
:15:09. > :15:12.makes sense if the government stays within one piece of the EU
:15:13. > :15:17.infrastructure, the so-called customs union. Leaving the customs
:15:18. > :15:22.union is a complicated thing which imposes costs on business. We're
:15:23. > :15:26.having this conversation because leaving the customs union would be
:15:27. > :15:28.expensive. Why would the government do it? We have made a to explain
:15:29. > :15:32.exactly that. A major argument for Brexit
:15:33. > :15:35.was that our businesses should manufacture more goods and sell them
:15:36. > :15:41.to far-flung places. A major argument for Brexit
:15:42. > :15:45.was that our businesses should So, why is it then that there
:15:46. > :15:47.is still discussion of Britain continuing to follow a big chunk
:15:48. > :15:50.of EU trade policy? There's some talk here in Whitehall
:15:51. > :15:54.about whether Britain might join what's called a customs union
:15:55. > :15:58.with the EU. And what it means is that Turkey can
:15:59. > :16:06.sell goods into the EU and buy goods from the EU without them having
:16:07. > :16:08.to go through bureaucratic and onerous customs checks,
:16:09. > :16:11.or having to pay tariffs. To be part of a customs union
:16:12. > :16:18.with the EU means having to adopt the EU's policies and tariffs
:16:19. > :16:20.on trade from anywhere So joining the customs
:16:21. > :16:26.union would really tie the hands of Liam Fox,
:16:27. > :16:29.our International Trade Secretary, who wants to cut a range of exciting
:16:30. > :16:32.new deals with new trading partners The advantages of staying
:16:33. > :16:38.inside the customs union are clear when you come to a wine
:16:39. > :16:41.warehouse like this one. The inventory here comes
:16:42. > :16:45.from all over the world. Everything inside this
:16:46. > :16:50.warehouse has already gone But how intensive that
:16:51. > :16:55.process is depends on where If it comes from inside the EU
:16:56. > :17:01.customs union, then it's If it's come from outside the EU
:17:02. > :17:06.customs union, though, it's a much more onerous process
:17:07. > :17:09.to sell into the EU, and that's something worth
:17:10. > :17:13.considering when we're talking about whether the UK
:17:14. > :17:16.should stay inside the EU So to import a case of wine into UK
:17:17. > :17:24.from an EU countries such as France, there is a simple entry
:17:25. > :17:27.into a computer system. This is just basically so HMRC can
:17:28. > :17:30.make sure the tax is paid? Yes, there is a track on tax
:17:31. > :17:33.and what has been received. However, if they are importing
:17:34. > :17:35.from outside the EU, someone is bringing wine
:17:36. > :17:40.in from Australia or Israel, there will be a VI1 form,
:17:41. > :17:43.it is called, which is the analytical details of the wine
:17:44. > :17:54.plus the certificate of origin. So this sort of proves
:17:55. > :17:56.where the wine has come from. This is entered for every
:17:57. > :17:59.single wine producer. And then we still need
:18:00. > :18:03.an entry of this, as well, in order to get the stock
:18:04. > :18:06.into the warehouse here. So there is much more paperwork
:18:07. > :18:08.if you bring the wine in from outside the EU
:18:09. > :18:11.than if it is coming Absolutely, yes,
:18:12. > :18:13.there is a lot more. Some of that paperwork relates
:18:14. > :18:15.to health and environmental Some, though, relates
:18:16. > :18:20.to the so-called rules of origin, which, if Britain gets a free
:18:21. > :18:22.trade deal with the EU, The EU has different tariffs
:18:23. > :18:26.for different countries and the rules of origin ensure that
:18:27. > :18:28.you are charged the tariff Just to give you an example,
:18:29. > :18:34.suppose there is a Chinese toy that is shipped
:18:35. > :18:36.to the United Kingdom and then What the European Union wants
:18:37. > :18:42.to ensure is it charges the Chinese tariff on it and not the tariff that
:18:43. > :18:46.applies to the UK, And if we leave the customs union,
:18:47. > :18:51.our products would also have to comply with these rules of origin
:18:52. > :18:54.when they are shipped It is one thing being outside
:18:55. > :18:59.a customs union when you deal in bottles of wine,
:19:00. > :19:04.but being outside would have been a big consideration for Nissan,
:19:05. > :19:06.who make cars in Britain Each piece might need
:19:07. > :19:11.to be origin certified. And Nissan might face tariffs
:19:12. > :19:20.on goods sold back into the EU. Being inside the customs union
:19:21. > :19:22.would also make it easier to maintain a soft border
:19:23. > :19:25.with the Republic of Ireland. It's something the government
:19:26. > :19:27.is committed to to help I think the experience of Norway
:19:28. > :19:33.and Sweden would illustrate the UK could be outside of the customs
:19:34. > :19:36.union, but without a hard border. I mean, the use of technology
:19:37. > :19:38.there to mitigate the effects of a customs border by having
:19:39. > :19:41.a light touch approach to spot checks on vehicles, having
:19:42. > :19:45.numberplate recognition, forwarding documentation in advance,
:19:46. > :19:48.means that you can have the freest possible flow of goods
:19:49. > :19:50.despite having a customs Furthermore, being inside
:19:51. > :19:58.the customs union would make it very difficult for us to cut trade deals
:19:59. > :20:01.of our own. It makes us beholden to EU
:20:02. > :20:05.decisions, so politically, it cuts straight across
:20:06. > :20:08.Vote Leave's message. The outcome that trade experts most
:20:09. > :20:12.commonly predict for Britain is this, that we won't join
:20:13. > :20:15.a customs union with the EU after Brexit, but rather
:20:16. > :20:18.that the government will seek to mitigate the problems
:20:19. > :20:22.of being outside the EU's external borders through so-called mutual
:20:23. > :20:25.recognition agreements. What that means is that for specific
:20:26. > :20:28.sectors that do a lot of cross-border work,
:20:29. > :20:31.they will seek to minimise the amount of bureaucracy
:20:32. > :20:35.that they have to deal with. Well, just because you are outside
:20:36. > :20:37.the customs union doesn't necessarily mean terrible
:20:38. > :20:45.bureaucracy for everyone involved. The USA, Canada and Mexico
:20:46. > :20:47.managed to maintain across a free trade area
:20:48. > :20:51.as opposed to a customs union, so that would illustrate this kind
:20:52. > :20:53.of cross-border relationship and integrated supply chains
:20:54. > :20:55.is possible in a free trade agreement as opposed
:20:56. > :20:59.to a customs union. That's consistent with
:21:00. > :21:01.what Theresa May said here. The important point
:21:02. > :21:04.about the customs union is how you deal with the customs union
:21:05. > :21:07.is not a binary choice. There are different aspects
:21:08. > :21:10.to the customs union. That is precisely why
:21:11. > :21:12.it is important to look at the detail and get
:21:13. > :21:14.the answer right. Officials are currently fretting
:21:15. > :21:18.about how ports, notably Dover, can accommodate extra customs checks,
:21:19. > :21:23.if we do leave the customs union. Civil servants have also told
:21:24. > :21:26.Newsnight that a new customs computer system, replacing
:21:27. > :21:33.the current 22-year-old one, They fear delays well
:21:34. > :21:41.beyond the current 2018 due date. But these are the short-term costs
:21:42. > :21:44.of an attempt to become a less European and a more
:21:45. > :21:47.global trading nation. What's it like to live and breathe
:21:48. > :21:51.the same air in the same room If there was one single thing that
:21:52. > :21:57.brought Donald Trump to the attention of Americans
:21:58. > :22:01.all around the US it was a buccaneering book called
:22:02. > :22:04.The Art of The Deal, which became an instant
:22:05. > :22:05.bestseller when it was It takes the reader through all
:22:06. > :22:11.Trump's big real estate deals line by line,
:22:12. > :22:15.but he did not write a word of it. That was the job of a 30-something
:22:16. > :22:18.year old journalist Tony Schwartz, who stuck with Trump
:22:19. > :22:21.every day for more than a year, but when Trump announced his
:22:22. > :22:23.candidacy, Schwartz was horrified and decided to atone
:22:24. > :22:26.for his part in Trump's rise. And he decided to try to stop him
:22:27. > :22:30.getting to the White House. This is his first British
:22:31. > :22:34.television interview. I started by asking him how,
:22:35. > :22:36.after finishing a newspaper interview with Trump,
:22:37. > :22:45.he ended up co-writing his book. We started doing the interview and
:22:46. > :22:50.at some point he mentioned he was going to do a book, I asked him what
:22:51. > :22:55.it was and he said it was his autobiography. I said that he is
:22:56. > :23:00.only 38 years old, but he said they were paying him a lot of money to do
:23:01. > :23:04.it. I said if I were going to do that I would write a book called The
:23:05. > :23:10.Art Of The Deal because people are interested in deals and that part of
:23:11. > :23:12.him. That's funny because that was 30 something years ago. It's the
:23:13. > :23:14.best title at ever come up with. I've never matched it and it
:23:15. > :23:17.happened happened spontaneously. So do you did a deal with him
:23:18. > :23:21.and you started to write a book From the very first time I sat down
:23:22. > :23:27.with Donald Trump I quickly understood that he had an incredibly
:23:28. > :23:32.short attention span. He got irritated very
:23:33. > :23:36.quickly by questions. Had limited interest in answering
:23:37. > :23:39.them and an even more limited So when that proved
:23:40. > :23:54.impossible, what happened? What happened was, I first thought
:23:55. > :23:57.maybe I'm going to have to abandon this book and then I thought,
:23:58. > :24:00.what if I came into his office every day and he was OK with it and picked
:24:01. > :24:04.up an extension phone and just What he was doing was making
:24:05. > :24:09.deals, which is what I So I thought, I can get some of this
:24:10. > :24:14.stuff from listening and I can go and fill in the details from other
:24:15. > :24:16.people who have been So did these other people
:24:17. > :24:20.at the other end of the line know that you were on
:24:21. > :24:23.the end of the line? Yeah, I mean, if he could have had
:24:24. > :24:28.an audience of 65 countries and 50 million people
:24:29. > :24:30.listening on the calls, But having one person
:24:31. > :24:36.listening in was great. In a way, you were very much partly
:24:37. > :24:40.responsible for the man that we see Yeah, I think I created a version
:24:41. > :24:47.of Donald Trump that was far more But did you actually in the course
:24:48. > :25:02.of that see him do bad things? He treated people very dismissively,
:25:03. > :25:06.he was intimidating, he was a bully. It was very clear that he lacked
:25:07. > :25:12.whatever it is that allows a person to be caring and compassionate,
:25:13. > :25:17.or even reasonably kind. I watched him behave badly
:25:18. > :25:21.and I also became aware, and this is the most important
:25:22. > :25:26.thing about Donald Trump, He was sociopathic
:25:27. > :25:33.in the classic sense. Telling a lie didn't
:25:34. > :25:37.bother him one bit. His idea of what to say
:25:38. > :25:41.was what he thought would work. If it happened to be true,
:25:42. > :25:44.fine but if it wasn't Not only didn't ask me about myself,
:25:45. > :25:55.he didn't know my name, When he called my home,
:25:56. > :26:04.which he would do once or twice a night, my wife would often answer
:26:05. > :26:10.and in a year and a half, he never got to know her name,
:26:11. > :26:13.he never got to know, I guess he might have known that
:26:14. > :26:16.I had kids but he didn't The normal social graces
:26:17. > :26:19.you would expect from a human being who you are deeply involved
:26:20. > :26:27.with were utterly absent. When did you realise
:26:28. > :26:29.things were going awry? Was it when he said
:26:30. > :26:32.he was going to stand? You know when I realised
:26:33. > :26:35.things were going awry? When he came down the escalator
:26:36. > :26:44.at Trump Tower to announce that he was going to run
:26:45. > :26:46.for president, to everybody's The very first thing or second thing
:26:47. > :26:51.he said was, "We need a president who wrote
:26:52. > :26:53.The Art Of The Deal." And I thought, I don't
:26:54. > :26:55.want to be president! But it really struck me that
:26:56. > :27:03.if he was going to start out his presidential campaign saying
:27:04. > :27:05.something that was not only completely false,
:27:06. > :27:08.I wrote every word of that book. I believe he read it,
:27:09. > :27:15.he certainly didn't have anything If he was going to lie about that,
:27:16. > :27:20.my belief was, wow, he's going to lie about anything
:27:21. > :27:22.because it is completely provable You're now advising
:27:23. > :27:25.the Hillary Clinton campaign. Is this because you feel the need
:27:26. > :27:28.to atone for The Art Of The Deal? Well I absolutely feel the need
:27:29. > :27:31.to atone for it. If Donald Trump were to win
:27:32. > :27:34.the election, I don't think he's going to,
:27:35. > :27:39.but if he were to win the election, I would take it seriously enough
:27:40. > :27:42.to move out of the United States. A lots of people say that
:27:43. > :27:45.but I would do it. I'm not going to put myself
:27:46. > :27:51.in harm's way, if this man has the tools of government to use
:27:52. > :27:53.against his enemies. This is quite extreme,
:27:54. > :27:59.you really feel you would have I've got my whole
:28:00. > :28:04.family ready to do it. In all that time, was there anything
:28:05. > :28:07.that ever happened to make you think, this guy isn't so bad,
:28:08. > :28:10.he's quite a good guy? You know, I spent a love of my life
:28:11. > :28:20.trying to understand the human potential, what is possible
:28:21. > :28:23.for a human being. My predisposition is to believe that
:28:24. > :28:27.all human beings are complex and there is no such thing
:28:28. > :28:31.as pure goodness any more Having said that, I've been asked
:28:32. > :28:41.this question multiple times and it made me uncomfortable,
:28:42. > :28:43.the first several times because I couldn't come
:28:44. > :28:48.up with something. Now what I realise is,
:28:49. > :28:54.one quality that he has that has obviously been incredibly useful
:28:55. > :28:59.is a relentlessness. Donald Trump will come
:29:00. > :29:03.at you and at you and at you, It's why he can tell something,
:29:04. > :29:11.say something that is patently and obviously untrue and get some
:29:12. > :29:14.percentage of the people If you could imagine that quality
:29:15. > :29:25.being used in the service of something virtuous,
:29:26. > :29:28.I could quite imagine If we are just talking
:29:29. > :29:32.about his character, no, And if you enjoyed that then a full
:29:33. > :29:42.version of that interview can be Let's talk now to commentator
:29:43. > :29:45.and Donald Trump supporter Charlotte Laws, who joins us
:29:46. > :29:57.from Los Angeles. Good evening to you. Tony Schwartz
:29:58. > :30:00.has probably spent more time close up and personal with Donald Trump
:30:01. > :30:06.and many people have including yourself. And he paints a pretty
:30:07. > :30:11.damning picture. Do you recognise elements of the picture?
:30:12. > :30:20.I think Tony Schwartz is somebody who is a disgruntled ex-employee who
:30:21. > :30:23.is looking for 15 minutes of fame and is a strong Hillary Clinton
:30:24. > :30:30.supporter. I think he is right when he says Donald Trump as personal
:30:31. > :30:36.servants, a positive quality. As for a lot of -- he has perseverance.
:30:37. > :30:41.Many people who have known Donald Trump decades will say the opposite,
:30:42. > :30:45.that he will be a wonderful president, he is reflective, he is
:30:46. > :30:51.kind and caring and gives to charity and gives to people when no one
:30:52. > :30:55.knows about it. Even people like Bill O'Reilly or Sean Kennedy with
:30:56. > :31:01.no Donald Trump for decades and they will say he will be a great
:31:02. > :31:04.president. I have met Mr Trump on three occasions and have had nice
:31:05. > :31:10.conversations and have nothing but positive things to say about those
:31:11. > :31:15.experiences. Tony Schwartz says he is a liar he keeps online and what
:31:16. > :31:20.is truth or fiction is of no consequence if it makes an impact.
:31:21. > :31:25.If that is halfway true, is that a pretty damning indication of what he
:31:26. > :31:33.would read like as President? I think he a grand negotiator and it
:31:34. > :31:39.is important for his presidency to renegotiate trade deals and bring
:31:40. > :31:43.money and jobs back to America and part of negotiating is withholding
:31:44. > :31:49.information, or exaggerating, you could argue. I think those
:31:50. > :31:54.qualities... But lying? Every politician lies, it is part of the
:31:55. > :32:00.way this system works. You could not attack someone so much for that.
:32:01. > :32:04.Hillary Clinton is commander-in-chief liar if she gets
:32:05. > :32:11.elected. It is a universal trait of politicians. Very quickly, would you
:32:12. > :32:14.trust Donald Trump with nuclear codes, because Tony Schwartz says
:32:15. > :32:20.that people should not trust him with nuclear codes. I would and he
:32:21. > :32:26.is a pacifist, he is much less likely to get into more than Hillary
:32:27. > :32:29.Clinton, he is not into nation-building, meddling into other
:32:30. > :32:34.countries and blasting people, that is not the way he operates and
:32:35. > :32:37.thinks. You can look at past interviews and talk to people who
:32:38. > :32:38.have known him and that is what they will say.
:32:39. > :32:41.On last night's programme we broadcast a film which forms part
:32:42. > :32:44.of the BBC Arabic Service's project on the impact of modern
:32:45. > :32:47.technology on one of our most basic emotions, shame,
:32:48. > :32:51.which has been ruining lives for as long as humans can remember.
:32:52. > :32:53.Traditionally it has been used as a form of social control.
:32:54. > :32:58.But in the modern era, technology has offered new ways
:32:59. > :33:01.for shame to be instilled in others - think revenge porn, for example.
:33:02. > :33:05.A problem in our relatively permissive society, but with far
:33:06. > :33:07.bigger human consequences in the more conservative societies
:33:08. > :33:15.Last night's film about shame, sex, honour and blackmail in an online
:33:16. > :33:17.world, explored the impact on men, tonight's shows how
:33:18. > :37:06.women are particularly vulnerable to blackmail.
:37:07. > :37:09.Joining me in the studio is Deeyah Khan, the Emmy and Peabody
:37:10. > :37:11.award-winning filmmaker and human rights activist.
:37:12. > :37:15.And from Kuwait is Dr Alanoud Al Sharekh, an expert in women's rights
:37:16. > :37:32.Good evening. Did anything you saw their shock you? No. I think what
:37:33. > :37:36.the internet has done for all of us in whatever field we are in is that
:37:37. > :37:47.it accent U eights everything that happens off-line. So whether that is
:37:48. > :37:51.a matter of -- accentuates. Whether that is creating revolutions,
:37:52. > :37:55.creating change or reinforcing discrimination and patriarch Lee,
:37:56. > :38:03.the internet is a part of that, so it is not shocking. -- the
:38:04. > :38:07.patriarch. The idea that technology, in this case cameras and the
:38:08. > :38:10.internet were men to liberate women and make their lives free has been
:38:11. > :38:19.turned on its head by this kind of example. There is a duality to it
:38:20. > :38:24.and so in a way, having the camera on them and being able to describe
:38:25. > :38:30.their experience and their own voice has been a big change that
:38:31. > :38:34.technology has allowed. Unfortunately it has exemplified
:38:35. > :38:41.this type of cruel and extortionate behaviour that we see happening in
:38:42. > :38:47.online blackmail. The idea that this man felt safe to do this with
:38:48. > :38:58.impunity in itself is very upsetting and unnerving for women. Yes, of
:38:59. > :39:02.course. It is also possible because of the nature of the conservative
:39:03. > :39:08.societies in this part of the world, the idea that you not only represent
:39:09. > :39:12.your own honour as an individual but the honour of your community and
:39:13. > :39:17.family makes you more like lead to put up with this behaviour then
:39:18. > :39:21.tried to raise attention around it. It is interesting that women have to
:39:22. > :39:29.put up with this behaviour. This is not exceptional? It is not. Women
:39:30. > :39:37.are constantly expected to be... To bear the burden of the honour not
:39:38. > :39:42.just of themselves but the burden of the honour of their family and
:39:43. > :39:48.community, as women who come from the backgrounds we come from we are
:39:49. > :39:52.not the owners of our own bodies and behaviours, everything we do
:39:53. > :39:59.reflects always on somebody else, and these men know that when they
:40:00. > :40:04.are exploiting. And the internet can amplify that? Absolutely, the
:40:05. > :40:09.internet can amplify the resistance against these types of norms, but it
:40:10. > :40:14.can also exemplified the discrimination and oppression and
:40:15. > :40:19.abuse that happens. You talk about traditional societies, but in this
:40:20. > :40:32.country we know that young women from all backgrounds, are called on
:40:33. > :40:36.the internet and the internet for evil is something we have not got to
:40:37. > :40:41.grips with yet. When it comes to the abuse of women in the US and
:40:42. > :40:47.England, you might not come from a Middle Eastern background and this
:40:48. > :40:52.shaming is the norm in some ways. I think the internet as much as it is
:40:53. > :40:59.a source of liberation for so many women and movements, it is an
:41:00. > :41:02.accentuation of discrimination and oppression and abuses that happen
:41:03. > :41:09.off-line but now have also extended into the platform and the world
:41:10. > :41:24.online. We also know just now there is an app by IS for selling. This is
:41:25. > :41:31.the essence of the challenge we all face, that the internet is where we
:41:32. > :41:35.can pick a lot of these challenges that we as women who come from these
:41:36. > :41:44.backgrounds, and we can use the internet to really on pick all of
:41:45. > :41:49.this. But it has become the space where we almost become destroyed.
:41:50. > :41:55.How do you suggest women countered this, that women are educated into
:41:56. > :41:59.not feeling cowed by this, particularly in Middle Eastern
:42:00. > :42:05.societies? I would save firstly there should be stronger legislation
:42:06. > :42:13.to prevent this kind of abuse online. Specifically be trolling and
:42:14. > :42:20.bullying of women. Online, when they are speaking and sharing, not only
:42:21. > :42:25.themselves, they represent a nation at times, if they are Muslim they
:42:26. > :42:29.represent their religion and there is an added layer of ambassadorship
:42:30. > :42:36.that women us to recognise and have the option to choose to reject and
:42:37. > :42:41.have their own voice as individuals online. But also because of the
:42:42. > :42:48.sensitive nature of honour in this part of the world, I think we are
:42:49. > :42:53.seeing more and more, special units that deal with online crimes and
:42:54. > :43:00.specifically blackmail. Thanks, I am afraid I will have to stop you. A
:43:01. > :43:05.final word on our exclusive story. While we were on air the inquiry
:43:06. > :43:09.said this statement, it is not true and inquiry worker made a complaint
:43:10. > :43:14.of assault to the panel or chair or official. It is worth pointing out
:43:15. > :43:15.our report did not say that a complaint had been made but rather
:43:16. > :43:18.that one had been disclosed. A final word on our exclusive story
:43:19. > :43:25.tonight on the child abuse inquiry. That's all we have time for,
:43:26. > :43:28.apart from a quick congrats to Newsnight's Katie Razzall
:43:29. > :43:30.and Yasminara Khan for winning an Asian Media Award tonight
:43:31. > :43:44.for their story about intimidation Subtle changes in the weather. Mist
:43:45. > :43:45.and fog in the south. Colder