:00:07. > :00:14.So, the ayes have it, the ayes have it.
:00:15. > :00:19.MPs overwhelmingly agreed on everything Brexit today.
:00:20. > :00:35.The MPs voted to support triggering article 50 by March after the
:00:36. > :00:39.publication of a plan. But the real argument is surely over what kind of
:00:40. > :00:43.plan it is to be. And that growl has barely got off the ground. -- row.
:00:44. > :00:48.We want to say in moulding the future of our country
:00:49. > :00:56.And we have a new relationship with the EU.
:00:57. > :01:08.Remember those Maastricht wars of the 1990s? Is that troubled about to
:01:09. > :01:12.return with the Remainers as the new rebels? -- trouble.
:01:13. > :01:15.75 years ago today, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour.
:01:16. > :01:16.The anniversary coincides with some rethinking
:01:17. > :01:20.Now we can say, hey, wait a minute, Mr President,
:01:21. > :01:24.But two years ago we changed our position.
:01:25. > :01:28.Now we may be able to join you fighting when you are attacked.
:01:29. > :01:33.We'll ask what's good about scratchy plastic, and what's wrong
:01:34. > :01:59.MPs were arguing on a lot and agreeing on a lot. On the
:02:00. > :02:03.publication of a government plan and the timetable for invoking article
:02:04. > :02:09.went through overwhelmingly. Some say that is a watershed and it is
:02:10. > :02:13.game over for Remainers. But there is still division on what Brexit
:02:14. > :02:16.should mean. In reality we know a lot about the government plan, the
:02:17. > :02:22.basic fine place, and despair to say the single market and the currency
:02:23. > :02:29.does not seem to be a part of it. And that is not just
:02:30. > :02:31.a Tory Labour battle - there is a fight within
:02:32. > :02:33.the Tories too. We're used to that -
:02:34. > :02:36.it's been going for decades. And yet now, instead
:02:37. > :02:37.of the eurosceptics being the outsiders,
:02:38. > :02:39.it is the Remainers Here's our political
:02:40. > :02:50.editor Nick Watt. It was 25 years ago this week that
:02:51. > :02:56.the modern European Union was born in a sleepy Dutch town. The
:02:57. > :03:02.Maastricht summit was, in John Major's words, two days of heart
:03:03. > :03:08.pounding. In the early 1990s the battle over the Maastricht Treaty
:03:09. > :03:11.trained authority from John Major as the Eurosceptic Tories defied him
:03:12. > :03:16.for allowing the European project to move irrevocably towards a political
:03:17. > :03:19.union. The legacy of that era arguably set in train a series of
:03:20. > :03:26.events which have taken Britain to Brexit. I was an original support of
:03:27. > :03:30.the EEC, which was all about free trade and markets, and I still think
:03:31. > :03:36.that was sensible. It was the transition into a political union,
:03:37. > :03:40.and it was Maastricht that create the European Union rather than the
:03:41. > :03:44.European Community. And certainly that is what has been the source of
:03:45. > :03:48.the trouble. Had that not happened I don't think we would be in the
:03:49. > :03:53.situation we were today. Today it is the ardent pro-Europeans questioning
:03:54. > :03:57.a Conservative Prime Minister. This evening a rebellion was all but
:03:58. > :04:02.snuffed out after some nifty parliamentary footwork by the
:04:03. > :04:07.government whips. But the Tory remainders are still holding the
:04:08. > :04:11.government's feet to the fire. -- Remainers. I have no doubt there
:04:12. > :04:15.will be a plan which will be about two aligned and produced at the
:04:16. > :04:19.start of March. It'll be absolutely meaningless. The government needs to
:04:20. > :04:24.get this and understand it. We want a white paper. We want a proper
:04:25. > :04:30.debate. We want to say in moulding the future of our country as we now
:04:31. > :04:36.leave the EE and we have a new relationship with the EU. And we are
:04:37. > :04:40.going to get that. In this evening's Commons vote Kenneth Clarke was the
:04:41. > :04:44.only Tory MP to vote against Theresa May. But in the countdown to the
:04:45. > :04:50.start of the Brexit negotiations next year could the Conservative
:04:51. > :04:54.Party experience a modest reverse Maastricht as pro-Europeans did in?
:04:55. > :05:00.A quarter of a century on, veterans of that era take different views.
:05:01. > :05:04.One of the whips at the time of the Maastricht rebellion, whose boss at
:05:05. > :05:08.the time was David Davis, is still scarred by the experience. I got all
:05:09. > :05:13.of this grey hair whipping the Conservative Parliamentary party
:05:14. > :05:18.when we have the Maastricht debates nearly 25 years ago. It all seemed
:05:19. > :05:22.incredibly important. But they were great parliamentary occasions. With
:05:23. > :05:28.them a minority of people obsessed by them. This is far more important.
:05:29. > :05:36.This affects the life chances, the quality of life, the gross national
:05:37. > :05:41.product. This affects the lives of every person in Britain. We have to
:05:42. > :05:44.get this right. A junior Maastricht rebel who later became one of the
:05:45. > :05:49.cabinet ministers to campaign for a Leave vote for the referendum
:05:50. > :05:53.believes there is a fundamental difference between the two episodes.
:05:54. > :05:57.During the Maastricht debates we were calling for a referendum. We
:05:58. > :06:01.felt it was of such important it should be put to the British people.
:06:02. > :06:04.Of course today we've had a referendum on the British people
:06:05. > :06:10.have spoken. Therefore whatever your view of the issue we have to accept
:06:11. > :06:14.the verdict of the people. Anna Soubry, who found herself under fire
:06:15. > :06:19.from her own side in the Commons today, says she will continue the
:06:20. > :06:23.fight. I will put my constituents and what is in their interests and
:06:24. > :06:27.represent them above everything else. I'm not at all like one of
:06:28. > :06:32.those Maastricht members because I'm not obsessed with this. We are
:06:33. > :06:36.responsible. I'm afraid those rebels were not, they were driven by
:06:37. > :06:42.ideology and they put their own very narrow principles over and above the
:06:43. > :06:45.interests of our country. A generation ago John Major faced a
:06:46. > :06:51.dangerous challenge on Europe. Today, passions are running high and
:06:52. > :06:56.a fizzling out of the rebellion means that Theresa May may not need
:06:57. > :06:57.to curtail her travel plans. In the end the pro-Europeans will not stand
:06:58. > :07:05.in the way of Brexit. The Commons were very much behind
:07:06. > :07:11.this labour motion today with the Tory member. The SNP and Lib Dems
:07:12. > :07:14.voted against. The vast bulk of Labour MPs and vast bulk of Tories
:07:15. > :07:16.voted for it. Joining me now from
:07:17. > :07:20.the Conservatives is Bernard Jenkin, Who was a rebel back in the day at
:07:21. > :07:24.Maastricht. And we also have
:07:25. > :07:33.Labour's Stephen Kinnock. Stephen, you are pro-Europe in most
:07:34. > :07:37.regards. Has Labour given up? Will it be invoked by March, blank
:07:38. > :07:41.cheque, article 50, they can publish a plan but there is no say on what
:07:42. > :07:46.will be on the plan, is it game over? I think we will have a chance
:07:47. > :07:50.to have a say as we go into the New Year between the point of the
:07:51. > :07:53.triggering of article 50 there will be opportunities for more opposition
:07:54. > :07:58.Day debates. They will not publish a plan. So we will have some substance
:07:59. > :08:01.to get our teeth into. I think the key position for us here is that we
:08:02. > :08:05.should be holding the government to account if not to ransom. We're not
:08:06. > :08:09.holding a gun to the government's head saying we are threatening not
:08:10. > :08:12.to trigger article 50. But we are saying is that plan does not work
:08:13. > :08:14.you should go away and come back with a better one which is the
:08:15. > :08:19.standard process for any parliamentary scrutiny. Do you agree
:08:20. > :08:24.they have a chance to vote on the plan whenever it is publish before
:08:25. > :08:28.article 50 is invoked? The House of Commons can vote on anything at any
:08:29. > :08:31.time. If the opposition party has put down emotion about the
:08:32. > :08:36.government's plan and want to have a vote on it that is what will happen.
:08:37. > :08:40.What we've seen today is significant. The Labour Party
:08:41. > :08:43.intended to try to split the Conservatives with their motion. And
:08:44. > :08:48.they finish up being split themselves and voting for a motion
:08:49. > :08:53.that calls for the implication of article 50 by the 31st of March. A
:08:54. > :09:00.difficult day for people like Stephen. I was doing a double-take
:09:01. > :09:05.when I saw Stephen in our lobby this evening. Very, very significant that
:09:06. > :09:09.Parliament has voted with such a big majority for article 50. I got a
:09:10. > :09:12.feeling he did not think it was such a significant succession. Some say
:09:13. > :09:18.this is a watershed. For the first time Parliament voted to leave the
:09:19. > :09:23.EU. I campaigned passionately for the UK to remain. But I am also a
:09:24. > :09:27.Democrat and I accept the vote and I accept the result. But I'm also keen
:09:28. > :09:32.to ensure we leave the EU on the best possible terms. And it is my
:09:33. > :09:37.duty as an opposition MP to hold the government's feet to the fire. And
:09:38. > :09:41.that is what you should do. You have heard the argument. Stephen Kinnock,
:09:42. > :09:45.he is for Brexit, the argument is over what kind of Brexit. Do you
:09:46. > :09:51.accept that is the remaining argument? I think Oliver letter man,
:09:52. > :09:57.Peter Lilley, several people including myself said that the Prime
:09:58. > :10:00.Minister has been pretty clear by saying we're not going to be subject
:10:01. > :10:05.to the European Court of Justice. We will be in control of our own
:10:06. > :10:09.immigration. You cannot cherry pick, says the EU, but we don't want to
:10:10. > :10:14.come in my view, we want to leave. It is the people who want to cherry
:10:15. > :10:20.pick, the remainders, who think we can have a bit office and a bit
:10:21. > :10:24.this. -- Remainers. Not everybody agrees with the Theresa May plan.
:10:25. > :10:29.When does Parliament get to vote on that plan and to say, we don't like
:10:30. > :10:34.that one, we would rather have this one? Parliament can vote at any time
:10:35. > :10:39.on that. But it doesn't matter, it isn't a proper vote, is it? It is
:10:40. > :10:43.another question for the Labour Party. We had a responsible comment
:10:44. > :10:46.from Steve in which is this is not about holding the government to
:10:47. > :10:53.ransom it is about holding the government to attack. -- from
:10:54. > :10:58.Stephen. If the House of Commons loses confidence in the government's
:10:59. > :11:06.plans, you know, well, I think the Labour Party... What happens if the
:11:07. > :11:11.government... Finish the sentence... The government falls. How can that
:11:12. > :11:14.be? That won't happen because the Labour Party has enough internal
:11:15. > :11:18.problems and external challenges. There was a speech by Andy Burnham
:11:19. > :11:23.today. He was making a speech about the need to address the problem of
:11:24. > :11:27.immigration because of what is happening... These people are not
:11:28. > :11:31.racist, he said, they deserve to be heard... Let's put this to Stephen.
:11:32. > :11:39.It sounds like you can discuss the government plan, you can see the
:11:40. > :11:42.plan, you can even hold the fun vote on the plan but it won't change
:11:43. > :11:48.anything. It is the government's plan and that is the plan that will
:11:49. > :11:55.be in boat. -- vote. If it is a absurd plan. Says they don't want to
:11:56. > :12:00.do anything about free movement. -- if it says they don't. The vote that
:12:01. > :12:04.could then take place in Parliament is we won't block article 50 but we
:12:05. > :12:09.don't like this plan. Come back with a better one. It is not as if there
:12:10. > :12:13.was one shot at this. I think there is plenty opportunity for us to hold
:12:14. > :12:17.the government to account. But you have lost your weapon. Your weapon
:12:18. > :12:21.was to be able to say we will delay article 50 until we have agreed on a
:12:22. > :12:26.plan. We all have a line. You've lost that weapon, haven't you? We
:12:27. > :12:30.have to be pragmatic. The SNP are talking about putting in 100
:12:31. > :12:34.amendments just to be difficult. I wouldn't support that behaviour.
:12:35. > :12:42.This needs to be practical, pragmatic, obstructive opposition.
:12:43. > :12:47.There will be Remainers out there thinking Labour have given up and
:12:48. > :12:50.that this is the end. What is the Supreme Court thinking about now?
:12:51. > :12:55.Essentially it is irrelevant, isn't it, they've already conceded point
:12:56. > :13:00.that the Supreme Court are debating it. The fact that millions of pounds
:13:01. > :13:07.of taxpayers money has been wasted on this. If we had the vote before
:13:08. > :13:10.all of this action, would the High Court have said we don't care that
:13:11. > :13:16.Parliament have already had a vote on this, we will go all over it.
:13:17. > :13:20.This is a new kind of supreme jurisdiction we have in the UK. I'm
:13:21. > :13:26.not sure when we ever voted for that. In this respect the need to
:13:27. > :13:30.get the Supreme Court to give a definitive ruling, which we must
:13:31. > :13:34.respect, of course, because we believe in the rule of law, is about
:13:35. > :13:37.finding out what kind of judicial oversight we have on our
:13:38. > :13:44.constitution now and whether that is what we really want. It is a mess.
:13:45. > :13:49.So much for Parliamentary... Set up by Tony Blair. A much bigger issue.
:13:50. > :13:50.Sounds like a big concession verdict. Thanks very much.
:13:51. > :13:52.Well let's look at some Brexit effects now.
:13:53. > :13:55.Back in 2012, when President Hollande had been elected in France
:13:56. > :13:57.on a high tax ticket, David Cameron said Britain
:13:58. > :14:00.would roll out the red carpet and welcome French businesses
:14:01. > :14:04.Mayor of London Boris Johnson said the similar: "Bienvenue a Londres -
:14:05. > :14:07.this is the global capital of finance," he said.
:14:08. > :14:10.Well, it irked the French at the time and maybe Brexit gives
:14:11. > :14:12.the country a chance to get even by wooing away segments
:14:13. > :14:18.Paris and other European cities are aiming to get a piece
:14:19. > :14:20.of London's action and are happy at the readiness of
:14:21. > :14:22.international companies, to think about emigrating.
:14:23. > :14:33.Our business editor Adam Parsons has been investigating.
:14:34. > :14:40.This is the story of a bank rate, maybe the most ambitious bank raid
:14:41. > :14:45.of all time. It is a tale of conflict, big money and big
:14:46. > :14:50.characters, secret deals, Lowell makers but no knuckle-dusters, it is
:14:51. > :14:53.happening now and it starts here. In the City of London were some of the
:14:54. > :14:59.world's biggest financial giants are wondering how to react to an
:15:00. > :15:04.uncertain future. Now this isn't about gold bars, this is about the
:15:05. > :15:06.banks themselves. The finance companies based here in Britain who
:15:07. > :15:21.have been freely across Europe. They are
:15:22. > :15:24.worried that Brexit as they understand that means that they will
:15:25. > :15:26.not have that freedom come 2019. They are pondering contingency
:15:27. > :15:29.plans. All the banks I spoke to said they would prefer to stay in London
:15:30. > :15:32.with assurances that if they do not have that, they would have to move
:15:33. > :15:39.to another European centre. So, the question for this bank heist story
:15:40. > :15:42.is who gets the swag? Take this financial technology company that
:15:43. > :15:47.employs wood and 100 people. The bosses worried about his ability to
:15:48. > :15:51.move across Europe in the coming years and he has applied to move his
:15:52. > :15:56.company to Dublin. By doing that and going through that process, it takes
:15:57. > :16:01.six months and some money, but six months from now we will be able to
:16:02. > :16:08.operate, no matter what happens, with the 27 EU member states.
:16:09. > :16:13.Another relatively small company, so I can stop a process more easily
:16:14. > :16:18.than some of the bigger institutions. The likes of the banks
:16:19. > :16:24.in Canary Wharf, once they set that juggernaut going, they cannot stop
:16:25. > :16:27.it. Newsnight has heard of at least eight European financial centres
:16:28. > :16:32.actively trying to press companies to leave London, Frankfurt,
:16:33. > :16:40.Luxembourg, Dublin, Madrid, Malta, Bratislava, Amsterdam and Paris, all
:16:41. > :16:45.trying to take business from London. In Paris, they are in full swing. I
:16:46. > :16:50.am told international banks are being wooed with special deals on
:16:51. > :16:59.income tax, corporation tax, schooling and even being told that
:17:00. > :17:02.contracts will be written in English. It is only four years since
:17:03. > :17:04.President Doron said he was the enemy of finance. So can the French
:17:05. > :17:10.now welcome something as massive, risky and Anglo-Saxon as big
:17:11. > :17:15.American banks? Here in Paris they are dwelling on the impact of Brexit
:17:16. > :17:20.and how they go about Lorraine Ugen business away from London and here
:17:21. > :17:31.to the French capital. It is hardly new for them. The Stock Exchange was
:17:32. > :17:32.built more than 200 years ago, but there are some very particular
:17:33. > :19:16.issues with modern banking. have taken big steps towards moving.
:19:17. > :19:19.Setting up in a new country could take two years. If they come to
:19:20. > :19:28.Paris they will probably come here, ladder funds, where new office
:19:29. > :19:34.buildings are being planned. -- La Defense. We are also aiming at world
:19:35. > :19:39.companies. Ones that are today established in London or looking
:19:40. > :19:42.about establishing themselves somewhere in Europe. For instance,
:19:43. > :19:47.we have a lot of contacts with Chinese companies, who are looking
:19:48. > :19:50.for a base in Europe and are interested by France and Paris for
:19:51. > :19:54.many reasons. And they are very interested by the Paris business
:19:55. > :20:01.district. Are these companies that would otherwise have gone to London?
:20:02. > :20:08.Probably yes. Now they are saying that is off the table?
:20:09. > :20:13.Yes. London's threat does not come from one place. I've spoken to
:20:14. > :20:17.bankers, lobbyists, regulators and politicians all across Europe.
:20:18. > :20:22.What's clear is that there is not one city, not even Paris, that
:20:23. > :20:27.things it can take on everything the City of London does. But there are
:20:28. > :20:31.lots, Luxembourg, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Dublin and the French
:20:32. > :20:35.capital that think they can take a big chunk of that business. And if
:20:36. > :20:40.you put all of those chunks together what you end up with is a very big
:20:41. > :20:45.problem for one of Britain's biggest and most lucrative industries.
:20:46. > :20:48.Tonight one major American bank told Newsnight it was making contingency
:20:49. > :20:53.plans to move operations to mainland Europe but in January I was told the
:20:54. > :21:02.process would start turning plans into reality. That is it for the
:21:03. > :21:05.Brexit news tonight. We've been following the situation in Aleppo in
:21:06. > :21:11.the last week and the advances of the Syrian government's forces.
:21:12. > :21:14.Let's have a quick look at the changes there.
:21:15. > :21:17.Here is the situation back in late September -
:21:18. > :21:23.the rebel held eastern Aleppo is that purple shape.
:21:24. > :21:26.Then in late November, government forces take a large part
:21:27. > :21:30.By the 28th, rebels had lost more than a third
:21:31. > :21:32.of the territory there, to Syrian government forces
:21:33. > :21:35.Today, the old City of Aleppo fell to government forces.
:21:36. > :21:39.Leaving rebels with just a quarter of territory they held.
:21:40. > :21:41.With me is Monzer Akbik, from the Syria's Tomorrow Movement,
:21:42. > :21:46.one of the main Syrian opposition groups.
:21:47. > :21:55.Good evening to you. Do you more or less accept that Aleppo has fallen
:21:56. > :21:59.to government forces? Most likely Aleppo has gone. The siege was
:22:00. > :22:04.completed around the city. The experience showed that once a place
:22:05. > :22:09.is completely under siege and with the indiscriminate bomb -- bombing,
:22:10. > :22:17.there is no hope for the people inside to continue. Why has there
:22:18. > :22:23.been so much resistance? We have seen the pictures on our screens,
:22:24. > :22:32.why did you not have surrendered as it was last? The people now, since a
:22:33. > :22:36.long time, they have strong sentiments towards the Assad regime
:22:37. > :22:41.with all of the brutality against them, they do not forget that for
:22:42. > :22:45.the past five or six years, he has been bombing them and destroying
:22:46. > :22:51.their homes and their lives and killing their loved ones. People
:22:52. > :22:59.cannot imagine the idea of going back under the umbrella of his
:23:00. > :23:03.ruling. There have been more bombings and more atrocities and
:23:04. > :23:08.more murder. Yes. It does not seem that anyone is able to do anything
:23:09. > :23:13.about it right now and that is why I think for the Syrian opposition, as
:23:14. > :23:17.well as the countries helping them, they need to learn from their
:23:18. > :23:25.mistakes because in the past five years, we were not able really to
:23:26. > :23:30.protect civilians and to reach the end goal, which is Democratic change
:23:31. > :23:37.in Damascus. Things have to be done differently. Was it a mistake, to
:23:38. > :23:43.leave that part of the city, rather than have women and children there
:23:44. > :23:48.suffering so badly? When you could see that the city once it was the
:23:49. > :23:59.siege was probably lost anyway? Yes, there were mistakes. On the 10th of
:24:00. > :24:04.September, there was an agreement reached that the cessation of
:24:05. > :24:14.hostilities, in return that the Americans would work on separation.
:24:15. > :24:18.This did not happen. I would say that the opposition at that time,
:24:19. > :24:23.they made a big mistake and they are still continuing with that mistake
:24:24. > :24:28.and even now, we can learn that lesson. They have to immediately,
:24:29. > :24:33.completely separate themselves. Maybe the Russians will sit down and
:24:34. > :24:36.talk as well? At least it will make a political breakthrough because the
:24:37. > :24:47.Russians are talking about this every day and every night. How does
:24:48. > :24:51.the war and now? How do you see your side of it coming out? Is it time to
:24:52. > :24:55.settle and compromise. We know you cannot stand Assad. He is going to
:24:56. > :25:01.win. We are for a political solution and if there is a political solution
:25:02. > :25:06.that does not involve a genuine change for human rights and rule of
:25:07. > :25:10.law, then all the sacrifices the Syrian people have gone through in
:25:11. > :25:19.the past five or six years will be in vain. I would say they deserve
:25:20. > :25:22.democracy and human rights. The Lebanese civil war was incessant,
:25:23. > :25:29.wars can go on for years, you cannot tolerate a war like that in Syria.
:25:30. > :25:32.It has been going on for five or six years and the people are resilient.
:25:33. > :25:38.I think the resistance cobble whether we want or not, it will
:25:39. > :25:41.continue, they have very strong sentiments. If we do not learn from
:25:42. > :25:48.the mistakes of the past, then things will continue to get worse
:25:49. > :25:50.and worse. The opposition has to be 100% democratic, separated from the
:25:51. > :26:15.jihadist and we need to engage politically
:26:16. > :26:17.with the Russians. In our movement, we visited Moscow and we are
:26:18. > :26:19.engaging politically and we are trying to reach a deal where we can
:26:20. > :26:22.reach a ceasefire and political change. That will accomplish the
:26:23. > :26:23.aspiration of the people, ending the dictatorship and heading towards
:26:24. > :26:24.democracy. Anything less will not work. Thank you.
:26:25. > :26:27.The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour was 75 years ago today; it's
:26:28. > :26:29.an anniversary being marked by the Americansand the Japanese
:26:30. > :26:32.prime minister this year, but it comes at a funny time.
:26:33. > :26:34.Out of the second world war, came a rock solid
:26:35. > :26:37.America was the rock, but suddenly under Donald Trump,
:26:38. > :26:41.Japan has clocked the potential change in US priorities.
:26:42. > :26:43.If it's America First now, maybe it needs to be
:26:44. > :26:46.The BBCs Tokyo correspondent Rupert Wingfield Hayes looks now
:26:47. > :26:55.at the future of the most important military alliance in Asia.
:26:56. > :26:58.A pair of US Air Force F-15 fighter jets roaring to the sky over
:26:59. > :27:02.the southern Japanese island of Okinawa.
:27:03. > :27:05.For over 70 years this has been America's unsinkable
:27:06. > :27:16.I'm now standing on the south-west coast of Qingdao.
:27:17. > :27:19.And this beside me here is the China Sea.
:27:20. > :27:31.That, off to the West there, is the giant Katina airbase.
:27:32. > :27:34.The largest US Air Force facility in the Western Pacific.
:27:35. > :27:37.Japan shelters under the US nuclear umbrella.
:27:38. > :27:39.If Japan is attacked these US aircraft and their pilots
:27:40. > :27:46.But now Donald Trump has thrown all that into doubt
:27:47. > :27:53.The treaty with Japan that if the United States gets attacked,
:27:54. > :27:56.think of this, if the United States get attacked they don't
:27:57. > :28:02.have to do anything, they can watch it on television.
:28:03. > :28:04.Trump's threats to pull troops out of Japan,
:28:05. > :28:06.or force Tokyo to pay more for them have shaken Japan's
:28:07. > :28:20.If they get attacked we have to come to their aid,
:28:21. > :28:22.World War Three, or whatever the hell happens, right?
:28:23. > :28:24.It's certainly volatile but it up to every partner...
:28:25. > :28:27.Kazuhiko Togo is a veteran diplomat and grandson of the man who signed
:28:28. > :28:29.Japan's declaration of war against America 75 years ago.
:28:30. > :28:32.The election of Trump is the culmination of the finalisation
:28:33. > :28:36.Because as we all know, Trump's most important
:28:37. > :29:00.message during the election was America first.
:29:01. > :29:02.Trump began criticising Japan, that Japan is not doing anything.
:29:03. > :29:05.But now we can say, hey, wait a minute, Mr President,
:29:06. > :29:07.the world has changed, you might have not noticed, but two
:29:08. > :29:12.Now we may be able to join you fighting when you are attacked.
:29:13. > :29:14.Japan has a very modern, powerful military.
:29:15. > :29:16.Until two years ago these ships were banned
:29:17. > :29:18.from fighting abroad, or even defending
:29:19. > :29:23.But as Professor Togo says that is changing.
:29:24. > :29:27.Not because of Mr Trump, because of China.
:29:28. > :29:29.Japan's security position, security situation,
:29:30. > :29:34.With this I'm saying not that we need to blame China,
:29:35. > :29:38.Our fundamental difference foreign policy is number one China,
:29:39. > :29:39.number two China, number three China.
:29:40. > :29:54.This is a Chinese boat running a Japanese Coast Guard ship
:29:55. > :29:58.China is aggressively pushing its claim to these Japanese
:29:59. > :30:01.controlled islands in the East China Sea.
:30:02. > :30:03.In August, 130 Chinese vessels intruded en masse into waters
:30:04. > :30:08.The challenge from China makes the US alliance more
:30:09. > :30:18.But today's Pearl Harbor anniversary is a reminder it is an alliance
:30:19. > :30:25.And 75 years on there is still little agreement
:30:26. > :30:31.about what happened on 7th December 1941.
:30:32. > :30:33.In America, the attack on Pearl Harbor is seen as a clear,
:30:34. > :30:36.unambiguous crime, but here in Japan it is viewed very differently.
:30:37. > :30:42.This is the grave of Hideki Tojo, the man who led Japan
:30:43. > :30:45.through the war and who ordered that attack on Pearl Harbor.
:30:46. > :30:48.After the war he was hanged by the Americans, but many here have
:30:49. > :30:57.never accepted the verdict that Hideki Tojo was a criminal.
:30:58. > :30:59.One of them is Naoki Kyakuta, now a hugely popular
:31:00. > :31:06.TRANSLATION: Roosevelt wanted to start a war,
:31:07. > :31:09.used the attack on Pearl Harbor as his chance, he roused Americans
:31:10. > :31:14.I think the Americans exaggerated the attack
:31:15. > :31:24.This is a scene from Mr Hyakuta's 2013 film Eternal Zero, the hero
:31:25. > :31:27.is a young kamikaze pilot who plunges his aircraft
:31:28. > :31:37.Mr Hyakuta wants Japanese to stand up for themselves again.
:31:38. > :31:51.TRANSLATION: Japanese never think about defending themselves
:31:52. > :31:54.but because of Trump all we need to think seriously now.
:31:55. > :31:57.During the Falklands War, when her ministers opposed
:31:58. > :32:00.going to war over a small island, Mrs Thatcher said, am
:32:01. > :32:03.This is when British people realised how important
:32:04. > :32:08.From Beijing to Pyongyang, and now even Tokyo, military
:32:09. > :32:11.budgets are growing, nationalist sentiment is rising.
:32:12. > :32:14.For now, America's military's might continues to keep
:32:15. > :32:17.rival ambitions in check, but with Mr Trump in the White House
:32:18. > :32:34.More vinyl records were sold last week than digital music downloads.
:32:35. > :32:36.?2.4 million worth of physical album, double the amount last year.
:32:37. > :32:45.And only ?2.1 million worth of downloads.
:32:46. > :32:49.The real answer is that it isn't: both vinyl and downloads have been
:32:50. > :32:51.overtaken by streaming services and music video sites,
:32:52. > :32:53.which see billions of tracks listened to a year.
:32:54. > :32:56.And vinyl sales are doubling, because its easier for small numbers
:32:57. > :32:59.But I don't want to kill the story completely,
:33:00. > :33:01.vinyl IS a business, and anyway it's nice to talk
:33:02. > :33:05.I'm joined by the DJ and broadcaster Goldirocks, AKA Sam Hall,
:33:06. > :33:17.And the lead singer and guitarist of Hot Chip, Alexis Taylor.
:33:18. > :33:25.Good evening. Alexis, are you a vinyl fan? Yes I am. Still buying
:33:26. > :33:31.lots of second-hand and new vinyl and have been buying it since I was
:33:32. > :33:38.I guess, 15 or so. It is more appealing to me as a format than any
:33:39. > :33:43.other one even though I can tell that not the full frequency range is
:33:44. > :33:47.captured in vinyl. I guess it is partly the fact that I have grown up
:33:48. > :33:51.listening to music on that format and loved it and also it is
:33:52. > :33:55.something about the sound quality even if that sound quality is
:33:56. > :33:59.slightly different. You are listening to the vinyl, you're not
:34:00. > :34:04.just buying it because you like the covers and the physicality? I don't
:34:05. > :34:10.have them on the wall, but I have a bit of an addiction to buying a
:34:11. > :34:18.vinyl. It is a bit out of hand now. It is something, there is a pleasant
:34:19. > :34:22.sound quality, not in every single record, you can buy records that are
:34:23. > :34:27.badly pressed and badly mastered, but there is something that is quite
:34:28. > :34:34.pleasing about a record that is not abrasive in its sound. You don't
:34:35. > :34:39.think the sound is as good or is it as good? Know. A lot of people talk
:34:40. > :34:45.about the warmth of the sound on a vinyl records. I suppose, there is a
:34:46. > :34:50.certain warmth but what it really is, there is a lot of middle in the
:34:51. > :34:55.sound, you don't get a lot of trouble or base and a lot of the
:34:56. > :35:00.definition is a bit lost. A lot of the time, if you don't have
:35:01. > :35:08.particularly good equipment, it is a muffled and dull sound. I have been
:35:09. > :35:14.buying vinyl records like Alexis, I grew up with vinyl back in the early
:35:15. > :35:19.Cretaceous period! I remember when CDs came in, resisting for a long
:35:20. > :35:28.time, just because it was my habit to buy vinyl, but one-sided go over
:35:29. > :35:34.to CDs... It wasn't the sound, it was the convenience, I have recently
:35:35. > :35:38.tried to get back into playing vinyl and taking the fluff from the Needle
:35:39. > :35:42.and putting a little 5p piece on it to make sure it did not stick and
:35:43. > :35:48.then the clunk, racing to get the shot down before the first note
:35:49. > :35:55.comes in... Making sure you do not put the needle too far... Sam, do
:35:56. > :36:01.you listen to vinyl yourself? I do and I do collect it. In a joyous
:36:02. > :36:06.way. For me, that joy of all the fast is what I love about final. As
:36:07. > :36:12.a listener, you listen to an album from start to finish, you don't just
:36:13. > :36:17.buy the singles you like. It is much harder to skip tracks. You sit down
:36:18. > :36:22.and you listen to a piece of music as it was intended and composed.
:36:23. > :36:43.Aren't a lot of people buying it like a souvenir? They
:36:44. > :36:47.love the band, most of the time they will have headphones on and they
:36:48. > :36:50.will listen on the bus, but they want this thing... I think it's
:36:51. > :36:53.wonderful. It doesn't matter if they listen to it. I had a figure, 48% of
:36:54. > :36:55.people who own vinyl do not even have a record player. It is that
:36:56. > :36:58.coffee table culture. Showing physical support and being a true
:36:59. > :37:00.fan and I think that is lovely. Especially nowadays in the fast
:37:01. > :37:03.paced consumer world. It is like cooking on a barbecue. Do you put
:37:04. > :37:04.much effort into the vinyl versions of your records? Do you think about
:37:05. > :37:18.the artwork? We think about the format more than
:37:19. > :37:25.any other format in Hot Chip. We know that is relevant to a large
:37:26. > :37:29.portion of the audience. About 98%. Chatting about the sleeves, how it
:37:30. > :37:34.will work on two sides. Even the idea of an album as opposed to
:37:35. > :37:39.singles or tracks. We are thinking in that outmoded way because it
:37:40. > :37:43.means something to us. I suspect that the albums are quite expensive,
:37:44. > :37:48.the vinyls, they are a premium product. Now they are. They are for
:37:49. > :37:53.the devoted fans to feel they are close to you. I do not want to say
:37:54. > :37:57.it is a rip-off. You can. I've tried in the past to persuade people we've
:37:58. > :38:04.been working with to bring the price down on the releases. There was a
:38:05. > :38:12.period where final was becoming more fashionable and more of an art peace
:38:13. > :38:15.people wanted to pay more for. If you hadn't made an album that
:38:16. > :38:19.deserves to be so expensive, if you have made a single record, it
:38:20. > :38:24.doesn't need to have a poster with it, then let's keep it like that and
:38:25. > :38:35.keep it affordable for people. Do DJs use final much? Especially the
:38:36. > :38:41.old DJs. -- vinyl. I am five feet four and I cannot carry around that
:38:42. > :38:47.much. So it isn't just DJs. The idea it is this elusive club of hipsters
:38:48. > :38:53.it isn't true, because you can buy it in supermarkets, you can buy it
:38:54. > :39:00.second hand on eBay. It is just a bit cool. I was looking at the
:39:01. > :39:11.charts. The vinyl album chart is like the stuff I've got in my album
:39:12. > :39:21.collection, it is ELO, Pink Floyd, it seems to be playing to my era.
:39:22. > :39:25.It'll be people rebuying again and again on the different formats,
:39:26. > :39:29.vinyl, compact disc and cassette. There is an audience who maybe have
:39:30. > :39:34.a disposable income and are willing to buy the classic record again and
:39:35. > :39:38.again. And they want the extra experience with all of the
:39:39. > :39:42.packaging, with the extra notes, and the rest of it. The equivalent of
:39:43. > :39:48.going to a sporting event and having a lunch with an after-dinner speaker
:39:49. > :39:53.who is a former player and you can go and get a signed football,
:39:54. > :39:58.something like that. There is that element to it. But with the
:39:59. > :40:03.packaging of it, you know, just buy a coffee table book, you know, and
:40:04. > :40:07.then, because... It's the same thing. It goes on your shelf, it
:40:08. > :40:14.looks very nice. Why is that a bad thing? That's a good thing. It is a
:40:15. > :40:20.hassle. It has come up just before Christmas this story, no
:40:21. > :40:24.coincidence. Is this surge in vinyl going to last two years then people
:40:25. > :40:28.will go on to something else? I think it'll continue. Vinyl has
:40:29. > :40:33.never gone away, particularly in the dance music world. One thing that I
:40:34. > :40:41.think will effect it could be Brexit because a lot of... It's true, a lot
:40:42. > :40:45.of vinyl is produced in France and the Czech Republic, for instance. If
:40:46. > :40:49.Brexit happens the way we think it might happen in Britain in March
:40:50. > :40:54.that means there will be extra tariffs on vinyl. It'll become even
:40:55. > :40:57.more expensive than it is already. This is the Brexit show. I said it
:40:58. > :41:01.was the end of the Brexit news earlier but in fact it wasn't. Thank
:41:02. > :41:03.you all very much. That is all we have time for. Have a very good
:41:04. > :41:20.night. Across Wales is the warmest December
:41:21. > :41:23.day since 1972. Another mild night might take us into the morning. Some
:41:24. > :41:24.heavy