:00:07. > :00:08.Back in November, when the court said Parliament should
:00:09. > :00:11.get a vote on Brexit, there was rejoicing on one side,
:00:12. > :00:19.Today, the Supreme Court upheld that verdict,
:00:20. > :00:26.but it wasn't really clear who'd won or lost.
:00:27. > :00:29.This judgment does not change the fact that the UK
:00:30. > :00:32.will leave the European Union, and it's our job to deliver
:00:33. > :00:36.on the instruction the people of the UK have given us.
:00:37. > :00:41.Never has so much attention been given to a Supreme Court case
:00:42. > :00:43.of such enormous constitutional significance, but which may end up
:00:44. > :00:50.We'll hear from Alex Salmond, on the path Scotland will now take.
:00:51. > :00:53.And Labour's Emily Thornberry on the party's challenge of trying
:00:54. > :00:57.to appeal to both sides of the Brexit debate.
:00:58. > :01:03.Also tonight, should primary school children wear hijabs?
:01:04. > :01:10.We must not normalise it, instead of supporting that practice we should
:01:11. > :01:12.question it because what you are doing is sexualising that child.
:01:13. > :01:15.Donald Trump invites the cameras into the Oval Office.
:01:16. > :01:18.What's he got to say about the environment?
:01:19. > :01:22.We can't be in an environmental process for 15 years if a bridge is
:01:23. > :01:26.going to be falling down, or if a highway is crumbling.
:01:27. > :01:27.So we're expediting environmental reviews and
:01:28. > :01:44.If you thought the arguments over Brexit would end
:01:45. > :01:46.after the referendum, sorry, it's not over
:01:47. > :01:49.and the Supreme Court has invited the arguments to continue -
:01:50. > :01:51.in the Commons, and perhaps more crucially now,
:01:52. > :01:57.Then there's Scotland, the court didn't give the government
:01:58. > :02:01.there any power over Brexit, but the SNP are not going to accept
:02:02. > :02:06.Now it's not clear who will actually have the muscle to actually
:02:07. > :02:09.block or delay Brexit, and the bookies still think Article
:02:10. > :02:12.50 will probably be triggered before the end of March.
:02:13. > :02:16.But there is a chance it will get messy.
:02:17. > :02:19.Our policy editor Chris Cook is good at making sense of a mess -
:02:20. > :02:20.here's how he thinks things might pan out.
:02:21. > :02:29.To invoke article 50, Downing Street will not
:02:30. > :02:32.need to consult the devolved governments, but will need to pass a
:02:33. > :02:40.In broad terms, Article 50 provides that a
:02:41. > :02:44.country wishing to leave the EU must give a notice in accordance with its
:02:45. > :02:47.Right now, that doesn't look like a serious
:02:48. > :02:53.The first stage then in the Article 50
:02:54. > :02:56.process is taking a bill into the House of Commons.
:02:57. > :03:01.Now, the fundamental facts about the lower
:03:02. > :03:03.house of parliament is there is a Conservative majority.
:03:04. > :03:08.So yes, the SNP and the Liberal Democrats might cause
:03:09. > :03:12.trouble for the government, but fundamentally they will not succeed.
:03:13. > :03:15.The only that people are really looking or hoping for from the lower
:03:16. > :03:20.House are really quite narrowly procedural.
:03:21. > :03:22.Here for example, is the Labour position.
:03:23. > :03:27.Labour accepts and respects the referendum result and
:03:28. > :03:33.But we will be seeking to allay amendments to ensure a proper
:03:34. > :03:37.scrutiny and accountability throughout the process.
:03:38. > :03:41.That starts, Mr Speaker, with a white paper or
:03:42. > :03:47.The government hopes that the bill will be through the
:03:48. > :03:50.Commons by February the 9th when it rises for its next recess.
:03:51. > :03:52.Then it is off to the House of Lords which
:03:53. > :03:55.is where it is likely to have a tougher time.
:03:56. > :03:57.Remember, the government does not have a majority
:03:58. > :04:02.But any problems there are likely to take the form of
:04:03. > :04:04.unhelpful amendments and perhaps a bit of delay.
:04:05. > :04:09.On big items, the House of Lords is often restrained by the fact that
:04:10. > :04:11.there was a commitment in a manifesto and by convention the
:04:12. > :04:13.House of Lords does not oppose manifesto commitments.
:04:14. > :04:16.But this time, while there was a commitment
:04:17. > :04:19.to a referendum, there are certainly was not a commitment to take the UK
:04:20. > :04:23.So some members at least will see that as
:04:24. > :04:25.giving them licence to challenge the government.
:04:26. > :04:27.But ultimately the House of Lords probably will not
:04:28. > :04:29.want to be seen to be frustrating the will
:04:30. > :04:32.expressed in the referendum result last year.
:04:33. > :04:34.Now the government says that Parliament will get another
:04:35. > :04:38.opportunity to vote on the deal that it gets
:04:39. > :04:40.from Europe at the end of the process.
:04:41. > :04:44.But whether that is an opportunity for Parliament to really
:04:45. > :04:48.scrutinise what is going on and suggest changes, depends on
:04:49. > :04:55.precisely when the government comes back for that vote.
:04:56. > :05:02.The draft deal has to come back before it has
:05:03. > :05:05.been signed because Parliament can look at it and I dare say, that is
:05:06. > :05:07.fine, or it is mostly fine but this is not,
:05:08. > :05:11.you can get something different or better on this.
:05:12. > :05:14.It is important it comes at that stage, rather than
:05:15. > :05:16.parliament being asked, take it or leave it, at the 11th hour.
:05:17. > :05:19.I do not think that would be acceptable.
:05:20. > :05:21.Given our rulers have not been much been constrained,
:05:22. > :05:24.question today is, why they took this case
:05:25. > :05:29.Well, the Scottish government does not have and has not sought
:05:30. > :05:33.Thanks to the Supreme Court, we now know there is no requirement
:05:34. > :05:36.for a vote in the devolved parliaments or assemblies.
:05:37. > :05:38.But, the Scottish parliament is going to have a vote anyway.
:05:39. > :05:40.Earlier I spoke to Alex Salmond, former First Minister,
:05:41. > :05:52.Today he has said Downing Street must treat the devolved
:05:53. > :05:54.administrations as equal partners in the Brexit process, quote,
:05:55. > :06:00.I asked where did Theresa May make such a promise.
:06:01. > :06:06.What she and the Tory party have said is that Scotland is an equal
:06:07. > :06:09.Actually, the phrase, not from Theresa May,
:06:10. > :06:11.but from her predecessor was Scotland should lead
:06:12. > :06:15.the United Kingdom, not leave the United Kingdom.
:06:16. > :06:18.But the phrase equal partnership has been used by the Conservative Party,
:06:19. > :06:20.that Scotland is an equal partner within the United Kingdom.
:06:21. > :06:26.If you're an equal partner within the United Kingdom,
:06:27. > :06:34.then your views on something as substantial and far reaching
:06:35. > :06:37.as Brexit deserve to be taken on account on an equal basis.
:06:38. > :06:40.It was one person, one vote in Scotland as it was everywhere
:06:41. > :06:43.A Scottish person was equal to everywhere else.
:06:44. > :06:45.But Scotland is a country, not a county, and the Scottish
:06:46. > :06:48.nation voted decisively to stay within the European Union.
:06:49. > :06:51.But of course, it was Theresa May who said explicitly,
:06:52. > :06:55.the week after she became Prime Minister, when she went
:06:56. > :06:57.to visit Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland, she said she wanted
:06:58. > :07:02.an agreed position across the United Kingdom.
:07:03. > :07:04.You can't have an agreed position, unless you're prepared to consult
:07:05. > :07:12.She is consulting, but I don't think it was understood that the Scottish
:07:13. > :07:16.administration would have equal say on an issue of customs union,
:07:17. > :07:18.immigration policy, foreign policy, international treaties
:07:19. > :07:23.as the government of the United Kingdom,
:07:24. > :07:26.in which the people of Scotland have a large shaping part,
:07:27. > :07:29.because they vote in UK general elections, obviously.
:07:30. > :07:34.The vote in favour of staying in the European Union was 62%.
:07:35. > :07:37.The vote in favour of the United Kingdom was 55%.
:07:38. > :07:42.Far more people in Scotland by majority and percentage wanted
:07:43. > :07:44.to stay within Europe as wanted to stay with
:07:45. > :07:47.As you will remember in 2014, one of the cardinal arguments
:07:48. > :07:50.of the No campaign, there were people arguing
:07:51. > :07:52.against independence, was that we would stay in Europe
:07:53. > :07:54.if we voted against Scottish independence.
:07:55. > :07:59.It looks absurd, but that was one of the key arguments
:08:00. > :08:03.More to the point, of course, Nicola Sturgeon,
:08:04. > :08:06.the Scottish First Minister, stood on a manifesto commitment last
:08:07. > :08:09.year and was re-elected on the basis that if Scotland was dragged out
:08:10. > :08:11.of Europe against the will of the Scottish people,
:08:12. > :08:14.then the Scottish Parliament would have the right to call
:08:15. > :08:20.That brings me to what is the big question for the SNP today.
:08:21. > :08:25.The big question for the SNP, why don't you just call a referendum?
:08:26. > :08:28.You are not going to learn anything between now and Brexit.
:08:29. > :08:32.We know what the British Government's policy on Brexit is,
:08:33. > :08:34.it has been stated by Theresa May as clearly as anything.
:08:35. > :08:36.We know that Scotland is not going to remain
:08:37. > :08:39.in the single market, as the Scottish Government hopes,
:08:40. > :08:42.we know that Britain is not even going to try and stay
:08:43. > :08:46.What else do you need to trigger a referendum?
:08:47. > :08:49.Well let's go through the Parliamentary process as far
:08:50. > :08:54.The UK Government are still to respond officially
:08:55. > :08:56.to the Scottish Government's compromise proposal that
:08:57. > :08:59.if England is determined to leave the single market,
:09:00. > :09:02.Scotland could stay in the single market.
:09:03. > :09:05.There are working examples elsewhere in Europe where this is the case.
:09:06. > :09:09.Why shouldn't that be considered as a reasonable proposal?
:09:10. > :09:13.If at the end of the day Theresa May is not interested in staying
:09:14. > :09:15.in the single market, she is not interested in respecting
:09:16. > :09:20.the wishes of the people of Scotland to stay within the single market,
:09:21. > :09:22.maintain jobs and investment, then of course if she flings down
:09:23. > :09:28.the gauntlet, I fully expect Nicola Sturgeon to pick it up.
:09:29. > :09:31.Well then we do expect a referendum, because she is not going to give
:09:32. > :09:33.you different status within the single market.
:09:34. > :09:36.There are all sorts of practical challenges and difficulties.
:09:37. > :09:49.There is a working example in Europe at the moment for a country
:09:50. > :09:52.which has a monetary and customs union with another country
:09:53. > :09:54.and one is in the single market and one isn't.
:09:55. > :09:58.That is Lichtenstein and Switzerland.
:09:59. > :10:02.If you intend to implement control of labour at the workplace
:10:03. > :10:05.for a green card system as Theresa May does,
:10:06. > :10:08.there is no impediment to Scotland being within the single market
:10:09. > :10:15.It of course has complexities, but anything about Brexit has
:10:16. > :10:16.complexities and this is a practical proposition.
:10:17. > :10:25.Why shouldn't the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom pay attention
:10:26. > :10:27.to the wishes of the Scottish people, the Scottish Parliament
:10:28. > :10:31.I am I suppose curious as to why you're offering
:10:32. > :10:37.this rather complicated, and it would be complicated,
:10:38. > :10:39.settlement when there is a much more simple one facing you,
:10:40. > :10:42.which is to call a referendum and just let the Scottish people decide.
:10:43. > :10:46.What is it that the Scottish people....
:10:47. > :10:49.Is it because the polls are against you?
:10:50. > :10:53.Right, OK, let's take these points in turn.
:10:54. > :10:55.There is nothing as complicated as the Brexit process,
:10:56. > :11:01.There is already going to be we know special deals
:11:02. > :11:04.There is already going to be we know special deals for Northern Ireland,
:11:05. > :11:08.for Gibraltar, perhaps even for the City of London,
:11:09. > :11:11.for the car industry in Sunderland, and if there can be a special deal
:11:12. > :11:14.for the car industry in Sunderland, then I think there might
:11:15. > :11:16.be a special deal for the nation of Scotland.
:11:17. > :11:19.If the Prime Minister does not want to accede to any of these
:11:20. > :11:21.reasonable compromise proposals from Nicola Sturgeon, then
:11:22. > :11:25.as Nicola Sturgeon has rightly said, an independence referendum
:11:26. > :11:31.And it will take place within the next two years.
:11:32. > :11:34.As for support for it, there have been 16 polls
:11:35. > :11:39.since the Brexit vote in the United Kingdom.
:11:40. > :11:42.15 of these polls have shown support at a higher level than the 45%
:11:43. > :11:50.I have seen a poll that 62% of Scottish people don't want
:11:51. > :11:59.The question was wanted a referendum in 2017.
:12:00. > :12:01.I would vote against a referendum this year, as indeed
:12:02. > :12:08.Nicola Sturgeon's proposition in these circumstances
:12:09. > :12:11.with a compromise proposal rejected is to have a referendum
:12:12. > :12:14.within the negotiating period of two years.
:12:15. > :12:17.Would you accept that if there is another referendum, that is it.
:12:18. > :12:20.You cannot win on the best-of-3 at that stage.
:12:21. > :12:24.If it is two-nil, it is over and this time really
:12:25. > :12:30.it is over for 30, 50 years, it cannot come back
:12:31. > :12:37.If the Prime Minister decides to ignore the substantial demand
:12:38. > :12:41.in the UK as a whole to stay in the single market place,
:12:42. > :12:45.if she then decides to ignore the wishes of Scotland
:12:46. > :12:48.to maintain our 1000 year connection and history with Europe
:12:49. > :12:52.as a European nation, in that context, if there
:12:53. > :12:55.is a referendum within the next two years, then the Yes side will win.
:12:56. > :13:03.For some reason, it is Labour that is perhaps struggling
:13:04. > :13:09.with the consequences of this Supreme Court verdict more
:13:10. > :13:15.If Parliament is to vote, then Labour has to make up its mind
:13:16. > :13:18.as to exactly what it's position is - and yet it has given a good
:13:19. > :13:21.impression of being in a muddle - keen to support Brexit
:13:22. > :13:24.as that was the result of the referendum, but also having
:13:25. > :13:25.lots of Remain supporters it can't ignore.
:13:26. > :13:28.It's kind of stuck between Ukip in some blue collar neighbourhoods,
:13:29. > :13:30.and the Lib Dems in university towns.
:13:31. > :13:34.Nick Watt has been looking at where the parties stand.
:13:35. > :13:42.For the best part of three decades Europe has cast a shadow over the
:13:43. > :13:46.Conservative Party. Now at the very moment many Tories have been
:13:47. > :13:51.expecting a split of historic proportions, it is the Labour Party
:13:52. > :13:56.that is wrestling with this most troublesome of issues. The bulk of
:13:57. > :14:01.the Conservative Party accepts Theresa May's timetable for
:14:02. > :14:05.triggering Article 50 and her Brexit blueprint. As for the Labour Party
:14:06. > :14:14.they are struggling to fashion a coherent response. Many Labour MPs
:14:15. > :14:17.are trying to work out how to adapt their pro-EU views while
:14:18. > :14:22.representing constituencies that recorded high Leave votes in the
:14:23. > :14:25.referendum. I campaigned passionately for remain and I'd
:14:26. > :14:31.lived and worked in Brussels for years and I am marriage to someone
:14:32. > :14:37.from Denmark and I am pro-European with my heart and head but I am also
:14:38. > :14:41.a Democrat. The referendum has overridden the way I would look at
:14:42. > :14:46.the European question and now we have to accept the reality of where
:14:47. > :14:51.we are, and pushed the government to secure the best possible deal for
:14:52. > :14:56.the British people. It was but half a generation ago that Labour's
:14:57. > :15:00.support for the EU was an electoral asset. Now the referendum has
:15:01. > :15:06.changed everything, presenting Labour with a daunting challenge.
:15:07. > :15:11.Labour will never appeal to people fervently pro-European and die-hard
:15:12. > :15:17.Brexiteer is. It hurts to try to change the terms of the conversation
:15:18. > :15:20.and reach out to people who did not feel strongly in either direction,
:15:21. > :15:24.which means not talking about Brexit any more. While the conversation is
:15:25. > :15:31.about Brexit vapour is in a weak position. He believes it is
:15:32. > :15:35.providing rich pickings for other parties. Since the general election,
:15:36. > :15:42.it is estimated Labour has lost the highest number of votes to the Lib
:15:43. > :15:47.Dems. 400,000. It has also lost votes to the Conservatives and
:15:48. > :15:51.200,000 to Ukip. The Labour Party in complete disarray. They do not know
:15:52. > :15:58.what they think. You talk to Labour MPs on the issue and you get
:15:59. > :16:01.different answers. The Labour Party should be getting behind voting to
:16:02. > :16:05.trigger Article 50 but I have spoken to some today who say they will
:16:06. > :16:13.still try to frustrate the process. One unlikely voiced sympathisers
:16:14. > :16:17.with Labour. I am sympathetic to Jeremy Corbyn because I think he is
:16:18. > :16:22.finding problems that any Labour leader would find and they are not
:16:23. > :16:27.specific to him. He is a symptom, not decors, of the division with the
:16:28. > :16:33.London voters thinking one thing and broadly be more than voters thinking
:16:34. > :16:37.another. Jacob Rees-Mogg believes his party has an opportunity
:16:38. > :16:41.unprecedented in the modern era. The Conservative Party is probably more
:16:42. > :16:46.united on Europe than it has been since the days of Anthony Eden. Mrs
:16:47. > :16:50.May is in the position of having less opposition than almost any
:16:51. > :16:56.Conservative leader probably in history. That she has a united
:16:57. > :17:00.party, there is no internal position. Stephen Kinnock believes
:17:01. > :17:05.all may not be lost his party. The government has a mandate to take the
:17:06. > :17:09.UK out of the EU. They do not have a mandate to turn us into some sort of
:17:10. > :17:16.European version of the Cayman Islands. Brexit is not an excuse for
:17:17. > :17:20.making a bonfire of workers' rights and of environmental rights, of
:17:21. > :17:26.slashing the minimum wage, slashing corporation tax, deconstruction of
:17:27. > :17:30.the welfare state this country is built on. This government does not
:17:31. > :17:36.have a mandate to do that and our job is to draw those battle lines.
:17:37. > :17:39.In the space of a fuel years, the UK has experienced two landmark
:17:40. > :17:43.referendums and it has been Labour that has faced acute challenges in
:17:44. > :17:48.the aftermath. The party will be hoping that the shadow cast by
:17:49. > :17:56.Brexit will lift, although ironically, it may take a definitive
:17:57. > :18:00.rake with the EU to allow Labour to return to a more natural terrain.
:18:01. > :18:08.Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry joins us.
:18:09. > :18:18.I know what the Lib Dems think of the EU and I know where Theresa May
:18:19. > :18:23.stands. I would find it hard to say where labour stands at the moment.
:18:24. > :18:28.Just in a couple of sentences, what is your policy. Do you really know
:18:29. > :18:32.where the lead Dems stand, they only have a group of blind and the last
:18:33. > :18:39.time they had to vote on Article 50 half of them voted one way and the
:18:40. > :18:42.other half another. -- Lib Dems. In a couple of sentences what is the
:18:43. > :18:47.Labour position on what happens now, not on the process but on what we
:18:48. > :18:51.want and where we want to be. The British people have spoken, we have
:18:52. > :18:54.our instructions, we have got to make sure we get the best possible
:18:55. > :19:02.deal. We believe that begins with the economy. No one voted to be
:19:03. > :19:06.poorer or to lose their job. And on that point you are no different to
:19:07. > :19:10.Theresa May because she believes we want as much market access as
:19:11. > :19:16.possible, we want investment. She is not willing to pay the price for
:19:17. > :19:20.that market access, by giving up control of our borders. Are you
:19:21. > :19:24.saying you would have less control of the border is then Theresa May is
:19:25. > :19:31.advocating? I think there are differences in terms of emphasis but
:19:32. > :19:34.I think the speech she made, she was trying to ride two wars is at once
:19:35. > :19:39.going in different directions. It is our job as the opposition and we are
:19:40. > :19:43.only the opposition, we have got to hold her to account, there are parts
:19:44. > :19:47.of her speech we like, we like the idea of a tariff free access to the
:19:48. > :19:52.single market. We like they're not being a build-up of red tape, that
:19:53. > :19:59.is the kind of thing we like to hear and yes we will support her on that.
:20:00. > :20:03.We want to make sure negotiations go that way. But when she talks about
:20:04. > :20:06.some kind of weird new customs union entirely built for the UK or says if
:20:07. > :20:09.we do not get the deal then we're going to become a completely
:20:10. > :20:14.different country, break the economic model. This is what she
:20:15. > :20:21.said. She said she wanted to break the economic model, attract in. That
:20:22. > :20:24.was the back-up plan. She can only threaten if she means it and she
:20:25. > :20:29.means if she does not get her own way she will try to attract business
:20:30. > :20:39.here by lowering corporation tax and by making it more attractive. That
:20:40. > :20:45.means less money for... I know what your critique of her youth. What I
:20:46. > :20:50.want to know is if there an alternative vision to Brexit to the
:20:51. > :20:53.one that says we get control back of the borders, we leave the single
:20:54. > :20:58.market and customs union and fight for as much access as we can get
:20:59. > :21:02.after that. That sounds as if that is what your position is. You're not
:21:03. > :21:07.talking about free movement. What we're saying is that our first
:21:08. > :21:12.principle, what is most important is that we look after the economy. For
:21:13. > :21:16.any government what is most important is safety and security of
:21:17. > :21:22.citizens and second is the economy. But all economists will tell you
:21:23. > :21:27.free movement is the price you pay to get the best market access and
:21:28. > :21:31.that is good for the economy. If we are not going to be in the single
:21:32. > :21:36.market and we have to have a custom made deal for the UK, then there
:21:37. > :21:40.will need to be negotiations and we have made it clear we will not die
:21:41. > :21:43.in a ditch for freedom of movement. There needs to be give-and-take this
:21:44. > :21:48.but the priority is to make sure no one loses their job and we look
:21:49. > :21:52.after the economy. Because people who are just keeping their heads
:21:53. > :21:57.above water will be those who are most affected if the economy goes
:21:58. > :22:01.backwards. This is entirely consistent with Labour values. But
:22:02. > :22:11.the trade-off between market access, and control of the borders, I'm not
:22:12. > :22:15.100% clear where you are on that. Suppose you have knocked on my door
:22:16. > :22:22.is a member of the public and I say, tell me what your policy is on
:22:23. > :22:27.Europe. In a punter friendly style. I have just told you. So priority on
:22:28. > :22:32.the economy. What about immigration question what our policy is that we
:22:33. > :22:38.will not die in a ditch for freedom of movement. That argue for or
:22:39. > :22:44.against. For free movement or against it? We're not against
:22:45. > :22:48.immigration, we have always been in favour of their rules and managed
:22:49. > :22:54.migration and that continues to be the Labour policy. So in favour of
:22:55. > :23:00.free movement but not going to die in a ditch for it. So you would keep
:23:01. > :23:05.it and get good market access? We're not going to be doing the
:23:06. > :23:07.negotiations and our job as opposition is to make sure the
:23:08. > :23:12.government does not lose sight of the overwhelming importance of jobs
:23:13. > :23:18.and living standards. And the economy. We do not need them, we do
:23:19. > :23:21.not trust them to go off on their own and negotiate on our behalf in
:23:22. > :23:27.Europe without us keeping an eye on them. And so today we said the
:23:28. > :23:32.Article 50 if it is going to be triggered, we will not get in the
:23:33. > :23:35.way but try to amend the legislation in order to ensure that they keep
:23:36. > :23:39.coming back, that would keep an eye on it and if necessary they will be
:23:40. > :23:43.hand-to-hand combat on this. We need to make sure we get the best deal
:23:44. > :23:49.for the country and she cannot say that she acts on behalf of the whole
:23:50. > :23:50.country without negotiating with Parliament and Westminster
:23:51. > :23:56.parliament, listening to the views of the British people. We represent
:23:57. > :24:02.important parts of the and people said Labour is in such difficulties,
:24:03. > :24:10.but will represent the country. The fact is, ... They represent more of
:24:11. > :24:13.it because they got more votes. But the mixture of use with the Labour
:24:14. > :24:17.Party reflects that of the public. The way in which we're thinking
:24:18. > :24:21.about this with more depth I think that the Tories is a good thing and
:24:22. > :24:30.we can contribute and help but they need to listen. One of the things,
:24:31. > :24:34.the lines has been you will not let the government turn the UK into an
:24:35. > :24:39.offshore Cayman Islands. Will that be an amendment to the Article 50
:24:40. > :24:48.Bill? Let us first see what the bill is. It might be a couple of line.
:24:49. > :24:55.Maybe, maybe not. You could put in an amendment saying the UK must not
:24:56. > :24:58.become a tax haven or aim to... But there's no point anyway because a
:24:59. > :25:03.future government could change its mind on that. There will be a number
:25:04. > :25:10.of things. The first thing is the plan may be a piece of paper with
:25:11. > :25:13.plan written on the top but it is a speech she did not make an
:25:14. > :25:17.Parliament and therefore was not answerable to questions. So we want
:25:18. > :25:22.a white paper, a clear plan so we can help them to account. She is
:25:23. > :25:27.promising everything to everyone, let's have it written down and told
:25:28. > :25:30.her to it. Then the broad principles, what are they, when you
:25:31. > :25:36.are negotiating we want to be able to set lines in the sand. And then
:25:37. > :25:40.most importantly, the accountability so as you go along, you must keep
:25:41. > :25:45.reporting back. We should hold you to account and the final vote should
:25:46. > :25:50.not be at the 11th hour when basically it is take it or leave it.
:25:51. > :25:55.All processed stuff. If there's not much difference between you and...
:25:56. > :25:59.There's a lot of difference between our approach and that of the Tories.
:26:00. > :26:08.Do you accept, one of the difficulties is the country, the
:26:09. > :26:11.great schism is Remain or Brexit. And the opposition, accepting the
:26:12. > :26:16.Brexit result, it puts you in a difficult position because in a
:26:17. > :26:20.sense you are not on either side of the great fissure in politics. In
:26:21. > :26:23.the end you cannot have political parties to go for one half of the
:26:24. > :26:26.other which is what the other parties are doing. The fact that we
:26:27. > :26:31.are trying to bring the country together under the principle that we
:26:32. > :26:36.need to look after the economy and get the best deal on behalf of the
:26:37. > :26:41.whole country, is something we can unify the country around. We're not
:26:42. > :26:44.going to chase 40%, or the extreme part of 52%, we will do our utmost
:26:45. > :26:46.to ensure we stand up for the whole country and shall be listened to. We
:26:47. > :26:50.will make sure that we are. A four-year-old Muslim girl
:26:51. > :26:52.is at the centre of a row She was reportedly
:26:53. > :26:55.told she couldn't wear a hijab - a headscarf -
:26:56. > :26:58.by her Catholic primary school. The school was accused
:26:59. > :27:00.by one councillor of In contrast, some Muslims have
:27:01. > :27:03.pointed out pre-pubescent girls are not mandated to wear
:27:04. > :27:07.the headscarf at all. But it's another case in the great
:27:08. > :27:09.national discussion about the right boundary between tolerance
:27:10. > :27:12.and non-conformity. Should a four-year-
:27:13. > :27:14.old be wearing a hijab Katie Razzall has been to Birmingham
:27:15. > :27:22.to find out what's been going on. It's a regular morning for these
:27:23. > :27:24.seven and eight-year-olds at Birmingham's Anderton Park
:27:25. > :27:31.primary school. In this classroom today five
:27:32. > :27:33.of the girls were dressed in hijabs, the traditional head covering
:27:34. > :27:35.sometimes worn by Muslim women. Here, headscarves are allowed
:27:36. > :27:38.as long as they're purple or white. With some pupils in every year
:27:39. > :27:41.opting to wear them, the headteacher is relaxed
:27:42. > :27:46.about their choices. I think sometimes some of these
:27:47. > :27:49.cultural practices like very young girls wearing a headscarf,
:27:50. > :27:52.is just because that has always been done and maybe the families have
:27:53. > :27:54.never questioned it. And often here girls may come
:27:55. > :27:57.in in a headscarf at nine o'clock in the morning and then they're hot
:27:58. > :28:00.or they have got PE and they just take it off and it is off
:28:01. > :28:04.for the rest of the day. But another Birmingham School,
:28:05. > :28:09.Catholic Saint Clare's, is under fire from a local Labour
:28:10. > :28:12.councillor who weighed in after parents reportedly
:28:13. > :28:14.complained to him that the school had banned their four-year-old
:28:15. > :28:19.from wearing a hijab. This school has a strict
:28:20. > :28:21.uniform policy. Amongst the prohibitions,
:28:22. > :28:23.no dyed hair, no beads or coloured It is clearly outlined
:28:24. > :28:30.on their website, so they may have been surprised to find themselves
:28:31. > :28:37.at the centre of a row over a hijab. The row appeared on social media
:28:38. > :28:40.when a man complained his four-year-old niece got detention
:28:41. > :28:42.from school because she The local councillor, Waseem Zaffar,
:28:43. > :28:48.replied saying he had already met the headteacher to discuss
:28:49. > :28:50.the matter, clearly outlining to her
:28:51. > :28:53.that this policy contravenes He continued he was insisting this
:28:54. > :28:58.matter is addressed ASAP Neither the school nor Mr Zaffar,
:28:59. > :29:03.who is Birmingham Council's cabinet member for equality,
:29:04. > :29:06.would talk to Newsnight about the issue, which has
:29:07. > :29:08.been widely reported But at the school gates this
:29:09. > :29:14.afternoon, the only parent who would go on camera did not
:29:15. > :29:18.support Saint Clare's approach. It is the 21st century and we should
:29:19. > :29:21.be tolerant towards other religions and cultures,
:29:22. > :29:27.actually, as well. We are Christians and Catholics
:29:28. > :29:30.but never mind about the scarves, it The Equalities Act makes
:29:31. > :29:38.no mention of uniform, but caselaw precedents do suggest
:29:39. > :29:42.if a pupil cannot attend a school unless they remove an item
:29:43. > :29:44.necessary for their faith, that is discriminatory
:29:45. > :29:48.and potentially illegal. That is not what is
:29:49. > :29:50.happening here, though. According to some Muslim activists
:29:51. > :29:53.who argue even if you do believe girls should wear headscarves,
:29:54. > :29:58.that only kicks in at puberty. They haven't done anything wrong,
:29:59. > :30:00.they're not breaching any I would not want to start endorsing
:30:01. > :30:04.and supporting the idea of girls wearing the headscarf
:30:05. > :30:09.in primary schools. We must not normalise it and instead
:30:10. > :30:12.of supporting that practice I think we should actually question it
:30:13. > :30:14.because actually, what you are doing So is this about curtailing
:30:15. > :30:23.religious freedoms, or cultural practices,
:30:24. > :30:26.that some might see as misogynistic? A government commission review
:30:27. > :30:30.on social integration recently found that some women are being held back
:30:31. > :30:34.by regressive practices, justified in the name
:30:35. > :30:37.of culture or religion. Newsnight has previously reported
:30:38. > :30:40.on claims that some Muslim men within the Labour Party have been
:30:41. > :30:44.accused of misogyny. Today, one female Muslim
:30:45. > :30:47.councillor told us, this hijab When a Labour councillor
:30:48. > :30:54.says that, it shocks me. But it did not surprise me,
:30:55. > :30:57.I hear all sorts of things behind closed doors,
:30:58. > :30:59.which are not good enough. And as a Labour councillor
:31:00. > :31:01.that is on a Cabinet, a strong Labour authority,
:31:02. > :31:04.where we know there has been issues before, there has been
:31:05. > :31:06.Trojan Horse scandals, you have done
:31:07. > :31:09.investigations yourself. Where it feels like the party is not
:31:10. > :31:12.taking these things seriously, we need to have zero tolerance
:31:13. > :31:15.on this kind of behaviour. Birmingham Council told Newsnight
:31:16. > :31:18.school governing bodies decide on uniform but that it is working
:31:19. > :31:23.with Saint Clare's to make sure its policy is in line
:31:24. > :31:28.with legal requirements as well as talking to all schools
:31:29. > :31:31.in the area to ensure The posts on Facebook
:31:32. > :31:35.by the councillor who sparked this row have apparently
:31:36. > :31:39.now been removed. Mark Urban, our diplomatic editor
:31:40. > :31:49.has been in the US but is here now. A change of tack on
:31:50. > :31:58.the Keystone Pipeline. You had better explain. It is a
:31:59. > :32:04.pipeline running from Canadian oil fields, or is meant to, into the
:32:05. > :32:08.American system, stopped by President Obama in 2015 and Donald
:32:09. > :32:12.Trump this morning made an executive order to try to get it going and the
:32:13. > :32:18.Dakota Access pipeline under construction stopped by lawsuits.
:32:19. > :32:23.The aim is to announce big and bold, we put American jobs, American steel
:32:24. > :32:28.to build these pipelines, America's energy needs ahead of tree hugging
:32:29. > :32:37.people and we will drive a bulldozer through them. That is the aim and at
:32:38. > :32:44.the same time infuriating environmentalists and Native
:32:45. > :32:51.American groups. Basically trying to push a bulldozer through. There is
:32:52. > :32:54.announcement of infrastructure projects in the coming weeks.
:32:55. > :33:01.Foreign policy, more your beat. I am afraid we have been waiting in vain
:33:02. > :33:06.with rumours that among the first orders will move the US embassy in
:33:07. > :33:10.Israel to Jerusalem which did not happen and a cautious tone from the
:33:11. > :33:14.embattled press secretary implying no decision had been made. Other
:33:15. > :33:20.things we expected potentially on the Iran nuclear deal, Chinese
:33:21. > :33:24.currency manipulation, so-called, they haven't happened. It is
:33:25. > :33:29.fascinating. There is a desire to make the running with these big
:33:30. > :33:32.domestic job creation type projects that are key to his agenda and his
:33:33. > :33:39.base. They said today the administration, look, Congress has
:33:40. > :33:43.been so slow to approve foreign policy choices we are behind. You
:33:44. > :33:46.may see them coming together next week with a meeting with the
:33:47. > :33:47.President of Mexico, where the trade agenda I think will come to the
:33:48. > :33:52.fore. Let's finish by reflecting
:33:53. > :33:55.on the story of the day - the Supreme Court verdict
:33:56. > :34:09.and the path to Brexit, which is I am joined by author and journalist
:34:10. > :34:20.Sonia Pernell and the sun's political journalist. And the
:34:21. > :34:24.Guardian, 's Owen Jones. We have been speaking about the problems of
:34:25. > :34:32.labour. Do you get depressed that the left right schism has been blown
:34:33. > :34:35.apart by the Brexit Remain schism. And Jeremy Corbyn, to bring the left
:34:36. > :34:43.populism to the people is not being heard? Depressed about politics, me?
:34:44. > :34:49.Nothing to be depressed about! Clearly we have a divided country,
:34:50. > :34:55.polarised on an issue that modern with -- that will dominate a long
:34:56. > :35:00.time. Jacob Rees-Mogg alludes to this, the unique problem Labour has
:35:01. > :35:04.is in its electoral coalition it has people who live in London,
:35:05. > :35:08.Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool, who feel traumatised in the
:35:09. > :35:14.aftermath of the referendum and they want it to go away. You have Labour
:35:15. > :35:19.voters in Doncaster, Burnley, who feel they have their country back
:35:20. > :35:24.and it is difficult to reconcile the different perspectives. Brexit is
:35:25. > :35:29.not just about the EU. If anything the EU is long down the list in
:35:30. > :35:33.terms of what the referendum conjured up with immigration,
:35:34. > :35:42.multiculturalism, social issues, I suppose. You get groups of people
:35:43. > :35:47.with different outlooks on life. When you want a Labour opposition to
:35:48. > :35:56.have a clear take on the people on the top, vested interests, to talk
:35:57. > :36:01.about tax Justice, investment, cuts. Does it make you worried that the
:36:02. > :36:06.coalition that is the Labour Party is past its sell-by date because the
:36:07. > :36:13.two groups do not agree with each other on the big issues of the day?
:36:14. > :36:18.It does need to adapt. All over Europe social democracy is in
:36:19. > :36:22.crisis. It does not matter if the leaders of these parties on the left
:36:23. > :36:32.or right. In Germany, the Labour sister party, their leader supports
:36:33. > :36:36.third way style policy. He would probably be envious of Labour's
:36:37. > :36:42.terrible polling in this country. There are few countries where it is
:36:43. > :36:48.doing well. You get across Europe be centre-left and a rising radical
:36:49. > :36:52.left who argue with each other but that is often displace Durie from
:36:53. > :36:56.both wings that their lack of a clear route and vision to power and
:36:57. > :37:01.a clear strategy and all sections, if you believe in a different
:37:02. > :37:06.Britain, different Europe, in those other countries, there is a big ask
:37:07. > :37:11.about how you build a coalition and that coalition has changed. It is
:37:12. > :37:18.not the industrial working class, more people going to university. Let
:37:19. > :37:23.me put it to the others. Are you selling your shares in Labour? I
:37:24. > :37:29.would but what we have is a complete vacuum of leadership and they have
:37:30. > :37:33.to decide where they are, and be brave and decide what they are going
:37:34. > :37:38.to do and stick to it and fight for it and vote accordingly in
:37:39. > :37:43.Parliament. The Supreme Court said it is up to politicians to take it
:37:44. > :37:48.forward. It is now up to Parliament to make a decision. MPs are not
:37:49. > :37:52.delegates, they are representatives, not legally bound to vote, they
:37:53. > :37:56.should vote with their conscious. The leadership of the party should
:37:57. > :38:06.allow them to do so. Tom, do you have advice for Labour? Very happy
:38:07. > :38:12.to offer advice. Sonia is right. They will be in a terrible mess for
:38:13. > :38:20.as long as they try, as Owen pointed out, to straddle this giant fissure.
:38:21. > :38:26.If they give up one side they will lose half their market. We have seen
:38:27. > :38:30.it before. The Scottish referendum, by almost no fault of their own,
:38:31. > :38:38.they have been split by two giant referendums. What Labour need to
:38:39. > :38:43.realise is the existential threat. It is not a problem that will
:38:44. > :38:51.resolve in a few months, with a few cheeky votes in parliament. There is
:38:52. > :38:55.a poll for the Stoke by-election by the John Bell sponsored Labour
:38:56. > :39:01.outfit. The first on that by-election which has the leader of
:39:02. > :39:07.Ukip ten points ahead already. If you want a list of candidates in the
:39:08. > :39:16.by-election, go to the BBC website. A ten point lead for Paul Nuttall.
:39:17. > :39:28.Labour on 25%. 80% of his supporters come from Labour voters. Is this the
:39:29. > :39:33.fissure that divides the nation. I wonder out there there are people
:39:34. > :39:37.who don't much care about it? There was another poll saying more people
:39:38. > :39:41.were concerned about what is happening in the NHS than with
:39:42. > :39:47.Brexit. These issues get conflated. Again, go back to leadership. You
:39:48. > :39:51.need a leader of the Labour Party, whichever party will replace it, to
:39:52. > :39:56.take the position and stick at it and say it will be better for the
:39:57. > :40:04.NHS and employment. We don't have that. We have no opposition. Where
:40:05. > :40:13.have all the Tory Remain people gone? Why are they acquiescing? I
:40:14. > :40:22.think they are biding their time. Their numbers are strong. There are
:40:23. > :40:27.those brave enough to give David Davis a hard time as they did in the
:40:28. > :40:33.Commons. The likes of George Osborne, a lot of people remain
:40:34. > :40:37.silent. They know it is the wrong time to wave their flags. Theresa
:40:38. > :40:42.May has momentum behind her. It will get a lot more difficult for her. At
:40:43. > :40:48.the moment it feels she is making the running. This is the early
:40:49. > :40:55.skirmishes of what will be giant warfare. Do you agree? What Theresa
:40:56. > :41:01.May has done has made Brexit is like a cult. If you don't belong to it,
:41:02. > :41:08.you are shunned, you do not get on TV, do not get asked to parties and
:41:09. > :41:13.you are excluded. A lot of people are afraid to stick their heads
:41:14. > :41:19.above the parapet. Are you optimistic for a post Brexit
:41:20. > :41:25.Britain? Are you down on it? At the moment, the odds are it is a deal
:41:26. > :41:32.that prioritises jobs, the economy, not looking great. Turning Britain
:41:33. > :41:37.into a giant tax haven that would mean cutting public services would
:41:38. > :41:44.chill everyone. In British politics, if it is about our relationship to
:41:45. > :41:47.the European Union, rather than say, like we have gone through the
:41:48. > :41:52.longest fall in living standards is the 19th century, that squeeze will
:41:53. > :41:55.come back. The housing crisis, the lack of secure jobs, which is why
:41:56. > :42:01.many communities voted to leave, because they felt they had lost
:42:02. > :42:10.control of their communities. Education, the NHS. Labour needs and
:42:11. > :42:15.this is its task ahead, while keeping the electoral coalition
:42:16. > :42:19.together, to have a coherent alternative on those issues and try
:42:20. > :42:24.to shift the debate so we are not just talking about the EU for the
:42:25. > :42:30.next 50 years at this rate. There are other things that need to be
:42:31. > :42:32.addressed. Thanks. That is all we have time for. Amelie will be here
:42:33. > :42:44.tomorrow. Good night.