:00:07. > :00:08.We knew he'd annoyed the Chinese over Taiwan.
:00:09. > :00:14.And then the Australian prime minister, not
:00:15. > :00:20.Is there method in the President's apparent madness?
:00:21. > :00:23.He's famously a deal maker, and likes to get his way.
:00:24. > :00:26.But the President is not a happy deal taker.
:00:27. > :00:29.He's not keen on the commitments of his predecessors,
:00:30. > :00:35.particularly one to take refugees from Australia.
:00:36. > :00:43.When you sure about the tough phone calls I am having, don't worry about
:00:44. > :00:48.it. Just don't worry. They are tough, we have to be tough, it's
:00:49. > :00:51.time to be a little tough folks, we are taken advantage of by every
:00:52. > :00:56.nation in the world, virtually. It's not going to happen any more.
:00:57. > :00:59.We'll ask the President's recent adviser on climate
:01:00. > :01:04.Also tonight, our official policy on Brexit now runs to 75
:01:05. > :01:09.Britain wants to free itself from much of the EU Customs Union to
:01:10. > :01:12.allow it to negotiate new free trade deals across the globe.
:01:13. > :01:14.But it does want to hold on to one benefit,
:01:15. > :01:19.tariff-free trade with the rest of the EU.
:01:20. > :01:21.Italy's deputy foreign minister will tell us why
:01:22. > :01:24.And on Viewsnight, Pankaj Mishra explains why we live
:01:25. > :01:40.For the last two tumultuous centuries we've been designed to
:01:41. > :01:47.pursue ideals designed for the benefit of a homogenous few.
:01:48. > :01:50.Billions of people are now chasing these ideals with ever increasing
:01:51. > :01:53.frustration. Another day, one in
:01:54. > :01:57.which the unconventions of the new US diplomacy have
:01:58. > :01:59.been in evidence. Item one - the President seems
:02:00. > :02:02.to have had an argument with the Australian prime minister,
:02:03. > :02:04.and curtailed a phone Two - the National Security
:02:05. > :02:07.Advisor Michael Flynn has put Iran on notice,
:02:08. > :02:09.although no specification And three - it emerged that some
:02:10. > :02:15.days ago, Donald Trump had suggested that he might send US troops
:02:16. > :02:17.into Mexico, telling the Mexican President that he needed
:02:18. > :02:20.to deal with the "bad But at the same time, this evening
:02:21. > :02:26.in the UN, the Americans have strongly condemned
:02:27. > :02:29.the Russians' actions in Ukraine, and sounded very
:02:30. > :02:45.like they traditionally have. We do want to better our relations
:02:46. > :02:49.with Russia, however the dire situation in eastern Ukraine is one
:02:50. > :02:53.that demands clear and strong condemnation of Russian actions. The
:02:54. > :02:58.United States continues to condemn and call for an immediate end to the
:02:59. > :03:05.Russian occupation of Crimea. Crimea is a part of Ukraine. Our Crimea-
:03:06. > :03:09.related sanctions will stay in place until Russia returns control over
:03:10. > :03:15.the peninsula to Ukraine. There is a clear path to restoring peace in
:03:16. > :03:18.eastern Ukraine. A full and immediate implementation of the
:03:19. > :03:26.agreements which the United States continues to support. The UN
:03:27. > :03:27.ambassador to the United Nations, -- the US ambassador, sounding just as
:03:28. > :03:31.an ambassador traditionally does. Now, it's confusing -
:03:32. > :03:33.to Mr Trump's opponents, I suspect that for his supporters,
:03:34. > :03:37.there is craft in the chaos - the new President is unpredictable
:03:38. > :03:39.and going to have Here's our diplomatic
:03:40. > :03:49.editor, Mark Urban. The national prayer breakfast is a
:03:50. > :03:54.Washington institution. A chance for politicians, movers and Shakers to
:03:55. > :03:58.commune with the Almighty. A chance also for President Trump to exhort
:03:59. > :04:02.them to keep the faith. When you hear about the tough phone calls I'm
:04:03. > :04:07.having, don't worry about it. Just don't worry. They are tough, we have
:04:08. > :04:12.to be tough, it's time we have to be a little tough, folks, we are taken
:04:13. > :04:20.advantage of by every nation in the world, virtually. It is not going to
:04:21. > :04:24.happen any more. Tough calls. Like the one to Australia's Prime
:04:25. > :04:28.Minister at the weekend. They later tweet suggested the Australians
:04:29. > :04:34.needed to be pressured over a deal to resettle refugees. So is the
:04:35. > :04:38.Twitter bully pulpit part of irrational strategy? In the old days
:04:39. > :04:44.the old international regime was very careful about any tweet that
:04:45. > :04:48.would degenerate into tensions. Now the entire planet is on Twitter and
:04:49. > :04:53.Facebook and social media, I think it is a good thing for the president
:04:54. > :04:57.of the United States to also be on social media. But if this is the new
:04:58. > :05:02.liturgy of Washington what to make the sentence that could undermine
:05:03. > :05:08.the message? Yesterday at National Security adviser Michael Flynn gave
:05:09. > :05:11.around this warning. Trump has criticised the agreements reached
:05:12. > :05:14.between Iran and the Obama administration and the United
:05:15. > :05:19.Nations as being weak and ineffective. Instead of being
:05:20. > :05:23.thankful to the US, Iran is feeling emboldened. As of today we are
:05:24. > :05:28.officially putting Iran on notice, thank you. Yet Pentagon people
:05:29. > :05:33.undermined that almost as soon as it went out, saying there was no change
:05:34. > :05:39.to their posture with regard to Iran. It is very hard for outsiders
:05:40. > :05:46.to read. With respect to Iran or North Korea, these are countries
:05:47. > :05:49.where honour matters a lot. And humiliating the leadership of
:05:50. > :05:56.countries like this in order to show that you have won a better deal is
:05:57. > :06:01.also a very good way to escalate into quite a dangerous tensions.
:06:02. > :06:06.Another feature of the Trump approach seen with Pacific trade or
:06:07. > :06:10.the EU is to emphasise the bilateral state to state approach rather than
:06:11. > :06:15.dealing with them in a group in the hub of leveraging America's
:06:16. > :06:20.strength. He's not going to dismantle historic alliance is
:06:21. > :06:24.coming is trying to reform them, and to do so, his method is to sit down
:06:25. > :06:29.with each one of these countries that form these alliances, see what
:06:30. > :06:33.the bilateral situation is between the two countries is on a variety of
:06:34. > :06:38.levels and then talk about the forthcoming reform of these
:06:39. > :06:41.alliances. There's been a great deal of disquiet within the State
:06:42. > :06:47.Department and some people have leaked there as well. Today, Rex
:06:48. > :06:52.Tillerson taking up his position as Secretary of State put the emphasis
:06:53. > :06:56.on pulling together. Each of us is entitled to the expression of our
:06:57. > :07:04.political beliefs. But we cannot allow our personal convictions to
:07:05. > :07:09.impede our working as a team. Let's be honest with each other about the
:07:10. > :07:14.times we living as we focus our images on our departmental goals.
:07:15. > :07:18.Those in earnest supplication for a more doctrine from people like Rex
:07:19. > :07:25.Tillerson may be deluding themselves. In Midas we have a
:07:26. > :07:30.career military officer who's been trained up in the art of executing,
:07:31. > :07:38.right. Someone who has lived his life in the military is not a very
:07:39. > :07:42.familiar with how to counter orders coming down from above. We had
:07:43. > :07:53.tremendous success on the Apprentice. Contradicting any
:07:54. > :07:58.attempt to separate policy, Trump 's remarks. And they hired a big movie
:07:59. > :08:02.star, and to take my place and we know how that turned out. At the
:08:03. > :08:08.prayer breakfast this morning he took a swipe at Arnold
:08:09. > :08:12.Schwarzenegger and his ratings on On The Apprentice. From this
:08:13. > :08:16.administration we have already learned to expect the unexpected.
:08:17. > :08:18.Let's just pray for Arnold and those ratings.
:08:19. > :08:23.Well, the new diplomacy is unpredictable, but it is also
:08:24. > :08:25.very much about the US taking on global affairs,
:08:26. > :08:28.President Trump is not keen on the big international bodies
:08:29. > :08:31.The US prefers bilaterals to multilaterals now.
:08:32. > :08:33.One area where the existing global arrangements are being reviewed
:08:34. > :08:37.President Trump wants to exit the Paris Agreement.
:08:38. > :08:39.So who better to speak to about his approach
:08:40. > :08:42.to international affairs and climate change than Myron Ebell,
:08:43. > :08:46.who was in the transition team, in an environment role?
:08:47. > :08:55.Thank you for joining us. Good to talk to you. There is a huge weight
:08:56. > :09:01.in trying to understand the rules of the game under President Trump. In
:09:02. > :09:06.your view, what looks like chaos, is that strategic, planned, or just
:09:07. > :09:11.ordinary chaos? It seems to me that President Trump is trying to get an
:09:12. > :09:15.awful lot done very quickly, so I think the chaos is the result of
:09:16. > :09:21.that but I think he is moving rapidly on some major issues. What
:09:22. > :09:27.do you think of that line, we will talk about climate change but the
:09:28. > :09:32.line he used about "Every country in the world is taking advantage of the
:09:33. > :09:36.United States"? Do you agree? Clearly the US is one of the richest
:09:37. > :09:41.countries in the world so you might not think it was the most obvious
:09:42. > :09:46.feature. Do you accept that every country virtually is taking
:09:47. > :09:49.advantage of the US? I think President Trump is sometimes prone
:09:50. > :09:56.to speak broadly. We would have to go through each iteration of that
:09:57. > :10:02.although there have been long-term problems with Nato for example, most
:10:03. > :10:07.countries are not keeping their commitments for defence spending. So
:10:08. > :10:14.there are examples with the US is more than baring its own fair share,
:10:15. > :10:18.I suppose. -- where it is baring its own fair share. The multilateral,
:10:19. > :10:23.bilateral think he doesn't like multilateral deals, he is fine with
:10:24. > :10:27.bilateral deals, could you articulate for us what is wrong with
:10:28. > :10:32.multilateral and what is better about bilateral? I think we would
:10:33. > :10:36.have to again look at this on a case-by-case basis. I think the
:10:37. > :10:43.world trade organisation, the problem with it was that it hasn't
:10:44. > :10:48.been able to finish any of the big agreements on services for now well
:10:49. > :10:57.over a decade, more like 15 years. The multilateral process has sort of
:10:58. > :11:02.come to aid... It has frozen up. So maybe the bilateral deals will be
:11:03. > :11:05.more successful then. Let's move to another important multilateral area,
:11:06. > :11:12.climate change, international agreements. You are not a fan. You
:11:13. > :11:16.are in the transition team as the transitional head of the
:11:17. > :11:20.Environmental Protection Agency. Do you think President Trump will pull
:11:21. > :11:27.the United States at the Paris agreement and basically say, guys we
:11:28. > :11:30.are no longer in it? -- pull them out of the agreement? President
:11:31. > :11:33.Trump said in the campaign in several speeches, not in
:11:34. > :11:37.off-the-cuff remarks that he intended to withdraw the United
:11:38. > :11:47.States from the Paris agreement and D fund the programmes. The principal
:11:48. > :11:52.expenditure is the huge $100 billion a year green climate fund expected
:11:53. > :11:56.to go into effect in 2020. The share that the US places $3 billion. He's
:11:57. > :12:02.not alone in this. The Congress will never appropriate that money. So it
:12:03. > :12:06.seems that this is going to happen. Most of the rest of the world has a
:12:07. > :12:11.different view about the appropriate action to take on climate change,
:12:12. > :12:16.different to that of the US. Is the rest of the world entitled to sake
:12:17. > :12:20.you can put America first and do what you want, we will stick to
:12:21. > :12:23.Paris and put a small tariff on American exports because they are
:12:24. > :12:27.not burdened by the climate change taxes that we are all baring. I
:12:28. > :12:32.think the rest of the world can't talk about that but it should be
:12:33. > :12:37.recognised that the United States, because of the Shell oil and gas
:12:38. > :12:44.revolution, has done more to reduce global greenhouse gas emissions than
:12:45. > :12:51.any other country. Right. If the US, I supposed what I am really getting
:12:52. > :12:55.at here, is, the US is adopting a policy on, we are not going to take
:12:56. > :13:00.it any more. What happens if the rest of the world says OK, we will
:13:01. > :13:04.not take it any more as well because everyone else feels a bit hard done
:13:05. > :13:09.by and as if everyone is ripping them off. If that's dynamic plays
:13:10. > :13:13.out, where do you, a free-market libertarian type, where do you think
:13:14. > :13:19.that ends for the world and president Trump and for all his
:13:20. > :13:24.ambition? My underlying belief is that the United States, by
:13:25. > :13:26.withdrawing from the Paris climate agreement and removing funding from
:13:27. > :13:31.environmental programmes will be turning the world back in the right
:13:32. > :13:34.direction. Another part of the President Trump agenda is to make
:13:35. > :13:39.the United States is the largest energy producer in the world, which
:13:40. > :13:46.will free Europe from the threats from Russian gas and also reduce the
:13:47. > :13:51.influence of Opec. Yes. When do you expect President Trump to make an
:13:52. > :13:55.announcement on Paris and how he is progressing on that? Every time I
:13:56. > :14:01.say something I get misquoted. And it could happen at any time, it
:14:02. > :14:04.could happen tomorrow, or one month from now or later this spring. I
:14:05. > :14:09.don't think it's going to take forever, I have no idea when it
:14:10. > :14:13.might happen. I want to ask you because you have worked for a
:14:14. > :14:17.free-market think tank, you must disagree with the approach that the
:14:18. > :14:22.president is taking to trade. You don't believe in slapping a 20% tax
:14:23. > :14:28.on the border for Mexican goods, do you? Do you not believe that we have
:14:29. > :14:31.all been enhanced by free trade, are am not completely outdoors with the
:14:32. > :14:37.man you are serving in that transition team? The Institute is
:14:38. > :14:41.proudly and relentlessly free trade. That is why I was not asked to work
:14:42. > :14:48.on his trade policy. Are you going to be asked to get a permanent job
:14:49. > :14:51.in the administration? No. I agreed to work on the transition as a
:14:52. > :14:57.volunteer for four and a half months on condition I did not want a job in
:14:58. > :15:02.the federal government. Myron Ebell, thank you. Thank you.
:15:03. > :15:05.The government's Brexit White Paper came out today, adding more detail
:15:06. > :15:09.Actually, the White Paper had a few mistakes and typos,
:15:10. > :15:11.and if you look at the metadata on the electronic version,
:15:12. > :15:14.as the BBC's George Greenwood did, it appears to have been finished
:15:15. > :15:18.Just right-click on the pdf in Adobe, and look for
:15:19. > :15:22.A late draft is normal, but it suggests that a lot
:15:23. > :15:25.The document raises multiple issues, from civil nuclear regulation
:15:26. > :15:27.to data protection, just to say they'll be resolved
:15:28. > :15:33.Other specifics, such as the Erasmus higher education exchange programme
:15:34. > :15:37.or the pet passport scheme get no mention.
:15:38. > :15:39.Yes, the future travel status of millions of dogs
:15:40. > :15:50.Now this White Paper is just the British view -
:15:51. > :15:54.we may get our way, or we may be about to be hit by a
:15:55. > :15:57.Our political editor Nick Watt is with me.
:15:58. > :16:03.Nick, the Prime Minister will be heading to an EU gathering tomorrow.
:16:04. > :16:08.Tomorrow, Theresa May will attend what may well be one of the last
:16:09. > :16:12.European Council meetings before C trick is the Article 50 Brexit
:16:13. > :16:17.negotiations. She wants to do that early next month. -- before she
:16:18. > :16:21.triggers. That will take place in the Maltese capital of the letter
:16:22. > :16:24.and the main focus will be on the Mediterranean migration crisis.
:16:25. > :16:29.Theresa May will use that issue and that summit to tell the remainder of
:16:30. > :16:38.the EU that the UK wants to be a reliable partner when we have left
:16:39. > :16:41.and when Brexit has taken place. To will say that the UK will like to
:16:42. > :16:47.continue to tribute to the EU task force in the Mediterranean. She will
:16:48. > :16:53.cite naval aspects on border a cut is taking place. As the Brexit
:16:54. > :16:59.negotiations approach, there is a growing feeling in the Cabinet that
:17:00. > :17:05.the UK is facing a daunting task of historic proportions. So the key
:17:06. > :17:09.thing that the UK has got to do, is it has to show it will not be a
:17:10. > :17:15.supplicant in the talks. How do you do that? You start to play some of
:17:16. > :17:19.your key cards. We will help in a migration crisis. An interesting
:17:20. > :17:24.chapter in the White Paper, chapter 11, talking about how the UK plays a
:17:25. > :17:28.pivotal role in helping other EU countries tackle terrorism. I spoke
:17:29. > :17:32.to one member of the Cabinet who said, we are not saying we will
:17:33. > :17:38.withdraw cooperation on terrorism if the talks don't go our way, but it's
:17:39. > :17:43.probably a good idea to provide a reminder of the UK's significant
:17:44. > :17:47.role on that front. So on the day of the publication of that White Paper,
:17:48. > :17:51.we thought we would take a look at some of the main challenges that
:17:52. > :18:02.will face the UK in those Brexit negotiations.
:18:03. > :18:05.Well, it's 75 pages long and it provides the most detailed
:18:06. > :18:09.explanation of the government's approach to the Brexit negotiations,
:18:10. > :18:15.but there's not a single word about the first item on the EU
:18:16. > :18:20.The multi-billion pound divorce settlement the UK
:18:21. > :18:26.Instead, there is one short paragraph about
:18:27. > :18:38.and they are a long way down the line.
:18:39. > :18:41.Item number two on the EU list will be a demand for the UK
:18:42. > :18:44.to guarantee the rights of the 2.8 million EU
:18:45. > :18:52.Theresa May is holding back on this one because she wants to secure
:18:53. > :18:55.reciprocal rights for the 1 million Brits living in the rest of the EU.
:18:56. > :18:58.This issue could be resolved next week if an alliance of Tory
:18:59. > :19:00.backbenchers working quietly with senior Cabinet
:19:01. > :19:14.ministers manages to force the Prime Minister's hand.
:19:15. > :19:17.Theresa May wants to reach agreement on the UK's future partnership
:19:18. > :19:20.with the EU during the two-year Brexit talks, but the EU is only
:19:21. > :19:25.obliged to take account of the final settlement at this stage,
:19:26. > :19:28.prompting the UK to accept the need for an implementation period.
:19:29. > :19:33.The White Paper is silent on the EU's view on this period.
:19:34. > :19:51.Theresa May's decision to leave the single market means the UK
:19:52. > :19:54.will no longer be able to rely on so-called passporting rights
:19:55. > :19:58.to sell financial services across the EU.
:19:59. > :20:01.So the White Paper doesn't really talk about rules in this area.
:20:02. > :20:06.Instead, it has a very simple message for the rest of the EU.
:20:07. > :20:09.75% of your capital market business is conducted through the UK.
:20:10. > :20:21.Do you really want to put barriers in the way of that?
:20:22. > :20:25.Britain wants to free itself from much of the EU Customs Union
:20:26. > :20:30.to allow it to negotiate new free trade deals across the globe.
:20:31. > :20:33.But it does want to hold onto one benefit, tariff free trade
:20:34. > :20:38.Once again, the White Paper doesn't really talk about rules.
:20:39. > :20:43.Instead, it makes a simple plea to the EU.
:20:44. > :20:46.Surely you want to have a close relationship with one of the world's
:20:47. > :21:00.Joining me now to discuss this is the Italian Deputy Foreign
:21:01. > :21:11.Thank you for talking to us. When you sit down as the 27, without us,
:21:12. > :21:16.what do you talk about, what is the mood in the room, what do you think?
:21:17. > :21:21.Do they say it will be easy or difficult? Will we be a pushover? I
:21:22. > :21:31.think it's a daunting task. For both. Of course, it's a divorce.
:21:32. > :21:40.Divorce is always painful. And it's a failure. We are all responsible.
:21:41. > :21:48.And we have to act quickly and with fairness. Quickly also, because I
:21:49. > :21:53.know it's very complicated and we don't know exactly how to handle it.
:21:54. > :21:56.It's the first time. There is the example of Greenland,, but years and
:21:57. > :22:05.years ago, that was a little thing. The UK is a big thing. I say that we
:22:06. > :22:13.need to be quick because the financial markets left us no time.
:22:14. > :22:17.It's in everybody's interest that it is quick and smooth. You've had a
:22:18. > :22:21.quick glance at the White Paper. You heard Theresa May's speech and you
:22:22. > :22:24.know the British position. What do you think is not going to be
:22:25. > :22:31.deliverable, or will it all be deliverable? Everything is
:22:32. > :22:42.negotiable and deliverable. Everything. On one side, the White
:22:43. > :22:49.Paper is a wish list. How to handle it, the main thing is what we want.
:22:50. > :22:53.What the UK wants in this negotiation. But on the other side,
:22:54. > :23:02.the tone of the White Paper is a good one. In general, there is no
:23:03. > :23:06.supplicants in this story. Of course, it's a failure, we have to
:23:07. > :23:12.divide, but we have to be fair. The White Paper says, more or less, what
:23:13. > :23:15.are the best results for both? Pushing you want to specifics, what
:23:16. > :23:22.do you think will be the hardest of the issues you have seen laid out,
:23:23. > :23:26.the customs union? The rights of residents in different countries?
:23:27. > :23:34.What's the hardest issue? Probably the commercial things. Commercial
:23:35. > :23:38.things, because trade in general. Because the common market is very
:23:39. > :23:46.important for us. It's the building block of the EU. We need to speak a
:23:47. > :23:54.lot about that. It's very complicated. And also the idea to
:23:55. > :24:01.have on one side, bilateral trade agreements, it's a long job. It's a
:24:02. > :24:10.long story, you know? To do that. On the other side, the UK... We cannot
:24:11. > :24:15.accept that the UK will become a tax haven near to Europe. That's the
:24:16. > :24:18.back-up option. The Brits have said they don't want to do that, but
:24:19. > :24:23.that's what they would do if it was a bad deal. The British position is
:24:24. > :24:27.that when we all sit down together, you guys are bluffing. You will say
:24:28. > :24:32.this and that is difficult, but most of what we want is trade, you all
:24:33. > :24:35.want trade, we all benefit from trade, so you are bluffing and will
:24:36. > :24:43.give us what we want. Or as Boris Johnson will put it, it's all about
:24:44. > :24:50.Rossetto. You want to sell Prosser go and you will push it in the end.
:24:51. > :24:56.-- prosecco. There is a time question. Everybody wants a free
:24:57. > :25:03.market, of course. All the trade facilities. And of course it's in
:25:04. > :25:12.the ideals of everybody. On the other side, we worked a lot for the
:25:13. > :25:16.key is to have this common market. And to have another system in
:25:17. > :25:25.globalisation. Also, globalisation is weak now, but will not end, so to
:25:26. > :25:31.have plenty of bilateral agreements. You were speaking about multilateral
:25:32. > :25:38.and bilateral about the United States before. This is not
:25:39. > :25:44.multilateral. It is more than that, it is one common market. You cannot
:25:45. > :25:50.oppose that with dozens of bilateral agreements. First of all, to achieve
:25:51. > :25:54.this goal, you need time. Then we have to find something new, we have
:25:55. > :26:00.to be creative on this. A quick last one. One of the things the British
:26:01. > :26:06.have too offered the rest of the EU, we share security cooperation,
:26:07. > :26:09.advice on terrorism. And we also have a navy helping out in the
:26:10. > :26:16.Mediterranean in terms of the migrant crisis. Are those things,
:26:17. > :26:20.things that you hope are not part of the bargain or the negotiation, or
:26:21. > :26:23.do you think Britain will be rewarded, if you like, for offering
:26:24. > :26:33.those in keeping cooperation going on those? Look, I cannot imagine a
:26:34. > :26:41.Europe... And I don't say EU, I say Europe, without the UK, of course.
:26:42. > :26:50.And the main subject is defence. There is not any kind of European
:26:51. > :26:54.defence without the United Kingdom. That means defence, anti-terrorism,
:26:55. > :26:58.security, intelligence. On this field, and also in the other field
:26:59. > :27:05.of research, we need to be very cooperative among us. Mario Giro I
:27:06. > :27:07.thank you for talking to us. At one point he was the front
:27:08. > :27:10.runner, but Francois Fillon can now see his bid
:27:11. > :27:12.for the French presidency imploding. to pay her as a member of staff
:27:13. > :27:21.for many years, but the Telegraph unearthed a bit of a video interview
:27:22. > :27:24.they did with her some years back, when she said she
:27:25. > :27:28.didn't work for him. I've never been actually his
:27:29. > :27:31.assistant or anything like that. No, I don't deal
:27:32. > :27:37.with his communication. For many French voters,
:27:38. > :27:39.that video is the proof that the Fillons' intra-family
:27:40. > :27:42.payments were a rip-off Let's talk about the ramifications
:27:43. > :27:46.of this with two people keenly Pierre Haski, from the French news
:27:47. > :28:09.site Rue 89, is in Paris. Do you think Fillon's bid for the
:28:10. > :28:14.presidency is over? My feeling is that it's over. He's trying to
:28:15. > :28:20.resist. But he's an embattled candidate. He's trying to fight back
:28:21. > :28:26.but his credibility in shatters. Do you agree that it's over for Fillon?
:28:27. > :28:30.Yes, he's probably toast. Let's remember the allegations and also
:28:31. > :28:34.point out that it's not illegal, on the contrary, it's totally legal to
:28:35. > :28:39.employ a member of your family to be a parliamentary assistant. What is
:28:40. > :28:43.illegal is to get the taxpayer to pay for it. And for the member of
:28:44. > :28:50.the family not to do the work. What is worse is that we should remember
:28:51. > :28:58.that there is a history of doing good investigative work. The people
:28:59. > :29:03.who expose this particular story. It wasn't just this, there have been a
:29:04. > :29:08.sequence, a drip, drip, drip. She was getting paid by a billionaire's
:29:09. > :29:14.literary publication. That's right. And the staff had never seen her.
:29:15. > :29:24.Police raided Parliament the other day. This is not a surprise to
:29:25. > :29:30.French people that Mrs Fillon. It kicked off nine days ago. She has
:29:31. > :29:34.always been very reluctant and says she's a wife first and a mother to
:29:35. > :29:38.their children and is there to support her husband. That's never
:29:39. > :29:41.been a problem. What has surprised and stunned everybody, not just in
:29:42. > :29:45.their own party but across France is to discover that she had a full-time
:29:46. > :29:51.job as a parliamentary assistant and was then paid very handsomely and
:29:52. > :29:58.even by Francois Fillon's replacement. This is stunning, very
:29:59. > :30:04.bad news for him, bad news for the French conservatives, who don't have
:30:05. > :30:08.a alternative. It's very bad news for them. We have lost the line to
:30:09. > :30:13.Paris. Take us through what's happened. The way they have been
:30:14. > :30:16.doing it, appointing eight candidate through primaries like the United
:30:17. > :30:19.States. That is relatively new in France. What happens if you lose the
:30:20. > :30:26.candidate between the primary and the presidential election?
:30:27. > :30:33.That is the big question, there are a few scenarios. The most improbable
:30:34. > :30:39.is to go through the process again. Number one, it would be denying,
:30:40. > :30:50.this would be the second time for the Socialists, let's remember also,
:30:51. > :30:55.Juppe, he was another... We are in unpredictable territory, he beat him
:30:56. > :30:59.easily and beat Nicolas Sarkozy, so there are people, who, if the
:31:00. > :31:02.process is not respected, are discovering that their candidate who
:31:03. > :31:07.they thought would be the next French president in that second
:31:08. > :31:12.round on May seven is completely embattled. We have to say that the
:31:13. > :31:17.allegations are one thing but the way he has mishandled it, he said it
:31:18. > :31:22.was misogyny, he accused the media of being totally unfair, says it is
:31:23. > :31:28.a coup by the left, and institutional coup. He's making all
:31:29. > :31:33.kinds of accusations. I want to Bush, who will benefit, you could
:31:34. > :31:37.say it is Marine Le Pen, will say that the establishment are all in it
:31:38. > :31:43.for themselves and they must choose an anti-establishment candidate, or
:31:44. > :31:50.is it the bright younger guy coming through now, who picks up the votes?
:31:51. > :31:55.I think they will both pick up some. Notice how silent Marine Le Pen is
:31:56. > :32:00.being on this. She has her own problems. She had until January 31
:32:01. > :32:10.to repay to the European Parliament 300,000 euros, she did not do so.
:32:11. > :32:16.The accusation stands that she abused European funds, she abused
:32:17. > :32:22.them for her assistance in France and not Brussels. We find out more
:32:23. > :32:27.about Mr Macron. I've just found out that he's coming to London, we've
:32:28. > :32:33.got to get that in there, he's coming on February 21. It will be
:32:34. > :32:38.fascinating to see. Not elected, ex-banker but he is connecting,
:32:39. > :32:43.resonating. So all bets are off, if you want to place bets, do so. It is
:32:44. > :32:48.a serious business, we don't know who will be the next president.
:32:49. > :32:50.That's politics. I am sorry that we lost here.
:32:51. > :32:55.Our regular - or irregular - spot for ideas and views.
:32:56. > :32:57.Tonight, it's Pankaj Mishra, essayist, writer and author
:32:58. > :32:59.of the recent book, the Age of Anger,
:33:00. > :33:10.Blame modernity for our Age of Anger.
:33:11. > :33:14.Why do racism and misogyny flourish on social media?
:33:15. > :33:19.What is the appeal of lying demagogues?
:33:20. > :33:21.Since 9/11 we have blamed the Other, mostly Muslims,
:33:22. > :33:23.for political disorder, but the enemy now is more intimate,
:33:24. > :33:28.as we can see in the rise of Trump and the far right across Europe.
:33:29. > :33:33.The modern world's cherished ideals of liberty, equality and prosperity
:33:34. > :33:41.The problem is that it is difficult for the vast majority of the human
:33:42. > :33:45.These ideals were formulated by a tiny minority of ambitious
:33:46. > :33:53.Slave owners in America and networked intellectuals in Europe.
:33:54. > :33:55.Their projects of self-empowerment were never meant for the masses,
:33:56. > :34:02.Since 1789, many peoples who were deliberately excluded,
:34:03. > :34:05.whether women, enslaved or colonised peoples, or the working classes,
:34:06. > :34:07.have struggled for liberty and equality through either
:34:08. > :34:12.In recent decades, we have stopped talking about revolution
:34:13. > :34:22.We have transferred our expectations to the markets.
:34:23. > :34:28.We hoped that global capitalism would create general prosperity
:34:29. > :34:33.Instead, as more and more people around the world have sought wealth,
:34:34. > :34:35.at increasing costs to the environment, we have seen
:34:36. > :34:40.The result is a toxic politics of resentment
:34:41. > :34:46.This militant disaffection incited by unequal societies is nothing new.
:34:47. > :34:48.For the last two tumultuous centuries we have been encouraged
:34:49. > :34:52.to pursue ideals that were designed for the benefit of a homogenous few.
:34:53. > :34:54.Billions of people are now chasing a very fragile illusion with ever
:34:55. > :35:02.To understand our Age of Anger, we must not only look
:35:03. > :35:05.at the symptoms, such as Isis, economic disparity, or the far
:35:06. > :35:08.right, but also at the root cause, the ideals that underpin modernity.
:35:09. > :35:12.Only then can we make the ideals of liberty and equality
:35:13. > :35:15.work for our diverse and environmentally
:35:16. > :35:45.You are quite down on the way the world has been running itself. You
:35:46. > :35:49.would not think, listening to your Viewsnight that over the last two
:35:50. > :35:55.decades 1 billion people have been taken out of acute poverty in the
:35:56. > :35:59.world, has it been that bad? They have been taken out of poverty but
:36:00. > :36:06.have you thought about where they will go next? What will happen,
:36:07. > :36:11.these are just 1 billion people taken out of poverty, there are more
:36:12. > :36:15.people waiting. Another billion waiting... And they have been
:36:16. > :36:21.promised that they will share in the prosperity that has been created by
:36:22. > :36:25.a global capitalist economy worldwide, and we know that they
:36:26. > :36:30.will not attain that particular utopia. The world, the planet itself
:36:31. > :36:37.does not have the resources to cater to that kind of fantasy. Is it that
:36:38. > :36:42.the planet itself is limited? It's not just at the environmental level,
:36:43. > :36:46.it's also political, we are seeing the politically toxic consequences
:36:47. > :36:50.of feeding people forced promises. Something which, this kind of
:36:51. > :36:55.discourse, that billions of people are being lifted out of... Progress
:36:56. > :36:58.is happening, irreversible, inevitable, this discourse which the
:36:59. > :37:04.media has been disseminating since the end of the Cold War is very much
:37:05. > :37:11.complicit in this. You go back to 1789 anti-work right critical of the
:37:12. > :37:14.Enlightenment -- and you were quite critical of the way people had come
:37:15. > :37:21.allies to themselves, it trickled down quite a bit, didn't it, to the
:37:22. > :37:26.societies, where, not the whole world... But you look at where
:37:27. > :37:29.people were between say, year zero and the industrial revolution, they
:37:30. > :37:35.were checking along on two or $3 a day on average, and now we are all
:37:36. > :37:41.just sitting around, basically, the poverty line in the United States is
:37:42. > :37:47.$63 a day for a family of four. Let's call that a $16 a day per
:37:48. > :37:51.person. Incomparably better than 200 years ago. Yes, but the problem is,
:37:52. > :37:56.this is where we are all going wrong when you are computing, talking
:37:57. > :38:00.about such massive changes, talking about people being lifted out of
:38:01. > :38:06.poverty, what you are failing to consider is that people, making
:38:07. > :38:10.these massive changes in their lives, they are also experiencing
:38:11. > :38:14.loss, disillusionment, frustration. This is what the book is partly
:38:15. > :38:19.about, these ideas that we have lived with, I am not saying they are
:38:20. > :38:24.not admirable or worthy of pursuit, I am saying that they have caused
:38:25. > :38:28.terrible disillusionment and disaffection for a long time and
:38:29. > :38:32.many times that disaffection has become politically toxic... I do
:38:33. > :38:37.see, one reason that there might be some edge disillusionment in the
:38:38. > :38:42.world is that technology have shown people what they are missing in a
:38:43. > :38:46.way that it did not. They are much better off but they know how much
:38:47. > :38:52.worse off they were. This is the paradox. When things improve,
:38:53. > :38:58.people's expectations go through the roof. Why say it is about white men,
:38:59. > :39:04.the system they invented works in China... A statement is too often
:39:05. > :39:07.ignored, Barack Obama ignored it, saying that protesting African
:39:08. > :39:12.Americans are demanding the equality promised to them by the founding
:39:13. > :39:15.fathers. This is not history, this is fantasy. First we must
:39:16. > :39:20.acknowledge that these ideas were created by a small group of
:39:21. > :39:23.self-serving people who wanted liberty from certain specific
:39:24. > :39:27.authorities of their time. They were not thinking of liberty for
:39:28. > :39:34.everyone. They were not even thinking about who was human and who
:39:35. > :39:40.was not. And they extended their realm... Who is they? The people you
:39:41. > :39:45.are talking about. People fought for those liberties. They were not given
:39:46. > :39:55.to them. Segregation existed until the late 20th century. What is your
:39:56. > :40:00.counter hypothesis? What is the system you would like to see? A
:40:01. > :40:09.system that is environmentally sustainable. An economy, basically,
:40:10. > :40:17.this is why I say, you have to think about our place in the world and the
:40:18. > :40:20.transformation of the world. The system has been demonstrably better.
:40:21. > :40:24.We are in the middle of a lot of at least in the West. We are now in the
:40:25. > :40:32.modern world, there is no way back, that is for sure. Capitalist western
:40:33. > :40:37.democracy, is that the best system, basically? Have we tried other
:40:38. > :40:44.systems? From time to time, and they have done pretty badly. What we are
:40:45. > :40:47.dealing with is modern economics, what we are witnessing, is people
:40:48. > :40:53.thinking that one system works for the entire world. And we know that
:40:54. > :40:55.the one size fits all solution is light in tatters today. Pankaj,
:40:56. > :41:00.thank you very much. And we'll be continuing our
:41:01. > :41:02.discussion with Pankaj Mishra on Facebook right after
:41:03. > :41:04.we come off air. That's on the BBC
:41:05. > :41:12.Newsnight Facebook page. You can see that on the screen. We
:41:13. > :41:17.are going to go and do that. We leave you with that
:41:18. > :41:20.Trump-Schwarzenegger feud you may have heard about earlier
:41:21. > :41:22.in the programme. Both men have had something to say
:41:23. > :41:25.in the last 24 hours. See if you can spot which one works
:41:26. > :41:27.on Celebrity Apprentice and which one is the President
:41:28. > :41:30.of the United States. ...Had tremendous success
:41:31. > :41:32.on The Apprentice. I know the American people are not
:41:33. > :41:35.people that sit just in front of the television set
:41:36. > :41:39.and always complain... And they hired a big,
:41:40. > :41:41.big movie star, Arnold Because they know democracy
:41:42. > :41:46.is not a spectator sport. If you don't like
:41:47. > :41:50.something, you get up. The ratings went
:41:51. > :41:56.right down the tubes. And you go and do
:41:57. > :41:58.something about it. I think the American people
:41:59. > :42:01.are going to get up. And I want to just
:42:02. > :42:04.pray for Arnold, if we And that I think is the bottom line,
:42:05. > :42:22.this is why I think we Still a very windy end to the
:42:23. > :42:25.evening but as we head to Friday and more windy and wet weather to come,
:42:26. > :42:30.the potential for more disruption because of the strength of the wind,
:42:31. > :42:31.and the rain looks persistent and may