:00:10. > :00:16.Are you going to answer any questions about the contacts of your
:00:17. > :00:21.associate with the Russians during the campaign? Can you guarantee no
:00:22. > :00:23.one in the campaign had any contact with the Russians?
:00:24. > :00:26.Is the media now the official opposition?
:00:27. > :00:29.We have an intimate inside look at a turbulent week of a complex
:00:30. > :00:43.No direct questions about the biggest news story by far is insane.
:00:44. > :00:44.And the issue does not, in a press conference? The audience is being
:00:45. > :00:46.told not to trust us. Ahead of the President's big speech
:00:47. > :00:48.to congress tonight, we'll discuss the fights he picks,
:00:49. > :00:59.and the victories he can achieve. Also tonight. I have to balance our
:01:00. > :01:04.resources against the whole of the risk.
:01:05. > :01:07.Is there such a thing as a low risk paedophile?
:01:08. > :01:09.We'll ask when - or if - rehabilitation is ever
:01:10. > :01:18.Inventors have deep pockets, let's make sure we hold them responsible
:01:19. > :01:24.for the dangers they are introducing into the world.
:01:25. > :01:28.In three and a half hours President Trump stands before both
:01:29. > :01:30.houses of the US Congress to make the biggest speech
:01:31. > :01:35.It's not officially a State of the Union address -
:01:36. > :01:39.you have to be a year in office for that, but it will be like one.
:01:40. > :01:42.The theme - we are told - is "the renewal of the American
:01:43. > :01:45.spirit" and it will be wide-ranging; lots of policy, including
:01:46. > :01:47.healthcare, all infused with a good deal of Trump optimism.
:01:48. > :01:50.It's a chance for the President to set out his stall,
:01:51. > :01:58.It'll be interesting to see if he uses the speech to unify -
:01:59. > :02:00.because his five plus weeks in office mark him as one
:02:01. > :02:02.of the most divisive presidents anyone can remember.
:02:03. > :02:07.Just today, he was on Fox and Friends blaming President Obama
:02:08. > :02:13.I think President Obama's behind it, because his people are certainly
:02:14. > :02:18.behind it, and some of the leaks possibly come from that group.
:02:19. > :02:21.You know, some of the leaks which are very serious leaks,
:02:22. > :02:24.because they're very bad in terms of national security.
:02:25. > :02:27.But I also understand that's politics, and in terms of him
:02:28. > :02:28.being behind things, that's politics, and it
:02:29. > :02:38.Well, he is deeply polarising, the public are divided about him.
:02:39. > :02:43.His approval rating at 42% remains lower than President Obama's
:02:44. > :02:49.first Februrary for example, and lower than George W Bush's too.
:02:50. > :02:54.But the same polls demonstrate the marmite factor when it
:02:55. > :03:01.Approval among Democrats is at 10%, among Republicans, it runs at 88.
:03:02. > :03:04.Trump supporters have stuck with the faith.
:03:05. > :03:13.Ahead of that speech, our diplomatic editor Mark Urban is here.
:03:14. > :03:18.What do you think the president is going to say to Congress? This is
:03:19. > :03:21.where he has got to start the business of governing, laying out
:03:22. > :03:28.some plans. A more positive vision as you said in the inaugural speech,
:03:29. > :03:32.the big headline items, plans to slash US corporation tax to
:03:33. > :03:36.stimulate the economy. To rethink the so-called Obamacare health
:03:37. > :03:41.package and boost defence spending by $54 billion this year. Something
:03:42. > :03:47.he intends to do by deep cuts in the State Department, foreign aid and
:03:48. > :03:52.other things. 37% cuts as reported just before we came on air is the
:03:53. > :03:56.plan he is working too. How's that going to go down with Congress,
:03:57. > :04:00.which is probably been dominated. It is but the majority in the Senate is
:04:01. > :04:04.Badger are just two seats and cannot be taken for granted on spending
:04:05. > :04:08.matters in the house either. He has not even made the speech and the
:04:09. > :04:12.Senate majority leader before we went on air said this is not going
:04:13. > :04:18.to happen. These cuts to the State Department. So before he has even
:04:19. > :04:21.laid out this agenda he has the Republican leader in the Senate
:04:22. > :04:32.pulling apart bit by bit on certain key planks of what he's trying to
:04:33. > :04:34.say. And always foreshadows a much bigger argument, if he makes those
:04:35. > :04:37.cuts in corporation tax, a $2 trillion battle and the public
:04:38. > :04:40.finances by 2020 and where on earth is the money going to come from.
:04:41. > :04:44.Fiscal conservatives are nervous, they do not mind some aspects like
:04:45. > :04:48.the stimulus spending especially if it is in their district, but how is
:04:49. > :04:52.this going to be paid for. Prepare for the battle lines to be drawn.
:04:53. > :04:54.It's all about whose side your on with President Trump,
:04:55. > :04:57.but the most striking feature of the last few weeks is who he has
:04:58. > :05:02.The peddlers of fake news as he would have it.
:05:03. > :05:05.Some say it's a deliberate distraction from bigger issues,
:05:06. > :05:09.but the stakes are high in that battle.
:05:10. > :05:12.So before we assess where the White House sits
:05:13. > :05:14.ahead of the speech, we'll take an inside look
:05:15. > :05:17.Documentary maker Olly Lambert spent a week with his camera
:05:18. > :05:20.in the White House, a quite turbulent week at that.
:05:21. > :05:23.Every president in American history has disliked the press
:05:24. > :05:31.What's unusual is none before this has declared war in the first week.
:05:32. > :05:39.I call the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are.
:05:40. > :05:49.We always have an adversarial relationship, and that in some cases
:05:50. > :05:56.We are supposed to have a thick skin.
:05:57. > :05:58.We are supposed to be dispassionate observers.
:05:59. > :06:01.We are not bringing ourselves to the table as
:06:02. > :06:04.We are being brought into the story and it's a
:06:05. > :06:08.You've got to try to cut through the clutter
:06:09. > :06:09.and try to focus on the
:06:10. > :06:19.President Trump's embattled national security
:06:20. > :06:21.adviser General Michael Flynn stepping down Monday night in a
:06:22. > :06:23.firestorm of criticism after misleading vice president
:06:24. > :06:25.Mike Pence and others about his conversations
:06:26. > :06:31.with the Russian ambassador to the United States.
:06:32. > :06:37.And the White House has been hit with its biggest
:06:38. > :06:41.The President's national security adviser, Michael
:06:42. > :06:45.Flynn, has had to resign amidst reports that he'd had secret contact
:06:46. > :06:50.with Russia before Trump took office.
:06:51. > :06:53.These have been very, you know, tumultuous weeks for a new
:06:54. > :06:57.To have a national security adviser get forced out so early on,
:06:58. > :07:06.to see something happen that quickly.
:07:07. > :07:16.Right now, this briefing room is a place you have to be.
:07:17. > :07:19.This is Jeff here in the briefing room.
:07:20. > :07:20.Michael Flynn's shock resignation draws a
:07:21. > :07:27.big crowd to Sean Spicer's daily press briefing.
:07:28. > :07:30.The challenge for the White House is to make sure that
:07:31. > :07:34.And that's why some of these briefings can be
:07:35. > :07:47.The big media question is what did the president know,
:07:48. > :07:55.When did the president find out that Flynn had not told the truth?
:07:56. > :07:57.We've been reviewing and evaluating this issue with respect to General
:07:58. > :08:01.Flynn on a daily basis for a few weeks.
:08:02. > :08:03.The president was very concerned that General Flynn had misled
:08:04. > :08:07.Why would the president, if he was notified 17 days ago,
:08:08. > :08:10.that Flynn had misled the vice president and other officials here,
:08:11. > :08:13.and that he was a potential threat to blackmail by the Russians,
:08:14. > :08:18.why would he be kept on for almost three weeks?
:08:19. > :08:25.Well that assumes a lot of things that are not true.
:08:26. > :08:28.This was an act of trust, whether or not he actually misled
:08:29. > :08:32.And that was ultimately what led to the president asking
:08:33. > :08:34.for and accepting the resignation of General Flynn.
:08:35. > :08:49.The briefing happens, but then there are still so many
:08:50. > :08:56.other questions that develop in the intervening hours
:08:57. > :08:58.and the press secretary's office is out that hallway,
:08:59. > :09:01.Two hours after the briefing, a selected group of journalists
:09:02. > :09:03.is invited to what's called a gaggle.
:09:04. > :09:09.An off-camera meeting with Sean Spicer in his office.
:09:10. > :09:17.So there's been an exodus out of Sean Spicer's office.
:09:18. > :09:23.The gaggle has revealed another twist.
:09:24. > :09:26.Trump had known for over two weeks that Flynn had discussed
:09:27. > :09:32.But Trump didn't inform his vice president Mike Pence.
:09:33. > :09:37.Pence had found out about it by reading the Washington Post.
:09:38. > :09:42.When the White House counsel knew about it?
:09:43. > :09:44.You cannot have your national security adviser running around
:09:45. > :09:45.misleading senior administration officials, especially
:09:46. > :09:50.Despite the best efforts of the press team, the Russia
:09:51. > :09:58.Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States
:09:59. > :10:06.Benjamin Netanyahu has arrived in Washington.
:10:07. > :10:09.But after Flynn's resignation, the press corps are hungry
:10:10. > :10:15.to question Trump on his relationship with Russia.
:10:16. > :10:19.The protocol of a joint press conference is that four journalists
:10:20. > :10:27.But it's the leaders to decide which journalist to call on.
:10:28. > :10:34.David Brodie, Christian broadcasting.
:10:35. > :10:47.For the second time this week, Trump ignores the major networks.
:10:48. > :10:50.Instead, he selects questions from two small
:10:51. > :11:04.Mother asked directly about his links with Russia. Are you going to
:11:05. > :11:09.answer any questions about the contact your associate had with the
:11:10. > :11:12.Russians during the campaign? Can you guarantee no one on your
:11:13. > :11:16.campaign had any contact with the Russians?
:11:17. > :11:18.The idea that four reporters, two domestic and two foreign,
:11:19. > :11:21.in two events, eight total questioners and no direct questions
:11:22. > :11:23.about the biggest news story by far, the biggest news story
:11:24. > :11:40.We have a huge story going on now on the Russians, up blockbuster story
:11:41. > :11:44.alleging contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russian government,
:11:45. > :11:49.Russian intelligence and the issue does not come up in a press
:11:50. > :11:53.conference! Because he's calling on friendly news reporters, it is
:11:54. > :11:57.amazing. You have to work hard to be able to call on to reporters who
:11:58. > :12:07.would not ask that question. That takes some doing. Why did you fire
:12:08. > :12:14.him? While the major networks feel ignored, this is a chance for
:12:15. > :12:17.23-year-old trade, white House correspondent for the newly formed
:12:18. > :12:22.conservative outlet, one America news. I asked the president what he
:12:23. > :12:27.thought about that story that came out in the New York Times.
:12:28. > :12:29.I asked the president about that phone call that...
:12:30. > :12:32.It's such a unique opportunity for young journalist to have,
:12:33. > :12:34.you know, I wouldn't trade it for the world.
:12:35. > :12:36.It's something that I'm extremely excited about.
:12:37. > :12:38.I think it gives other outlets and other viewers and other readers
:12:39. > :12:41.an opportunity to feel like they're connected to this
:12:42. > :12:55.Bringing new people in is great and helpful, they represent audiences
:12:56. > :13:01.that have real readers and listeners and viewers. What we do not want is
:13:02. > :13:05.for any administration to either hand-pick and get the question is
:13:06. > :13:07.they think are best to help put out a message instead of going out and
:13:08. > :13:16.defending their policies every day. I don't think people realise how
:13:17. > :13:18.small this place is, This is essentially our home,
:13:19. > :13:23.and it's been our home This used to be Franklin
:13:24. > :13:28.Roosevelt's swimming pool. I mean, it's not very
:13:29. > :13:30.comfortable here, there My cell phone doesn't
:13:31. > :13:35.work at my desk. You're there at 4am,
:13:36. > :13:41.you're not sleeping for a week. It's a vibrant, dynamic, a little
:13:42. > :14:11.strange place to be right now. The Russian crisis is threatening to
:14:12. > :14:17.engulf the White House and at the last minute Sean Spicer cancels
:14:18. > :14:19.sisterly briefing and Trump announces his first solo press
:14:20. > :14:23.conference as president of the United States. I got the call, he's
:14:24. > :14:28.having a press conference, come to the White House. When I saw the note
:14:29. > :14:29.is that it would happen in an hour, I raced over.
:14:30. > :14:31.Just another example of never a dull moment!
:14:32. > :14:40.I've never seen such short notice for a first conference.
:14:41. > :14:50.I had a sense it was going to be a pretty contentious affair. Ladies
:14:51. > :14:55.and gentlemen the president of the United States.
:14:56. > :14:59.I want to get you to clarify, because it's a very important point.
:15:00. > :15:02.Can you say definitively that nobody on your campaign had any
:15:03. > :15:07.When Trump has a story that he doesn't like,
:15:08. > :15:11.This is fake news put out by the media.
:15:12. > :15:22.Makes it much harder to make a deal with Russia.
:15:23. > :15:29.It was an hour and 17 minutes whether President insulted reporters
:15:30. > :15:31.to our faces and the public is being told not to trust us.
:15:32. > :15:33.I've never seen more dishonest media then, frankly,
:15:34. > :15:39.The public doesn't believe you people any more.
:15:40. > :15:42.Now, maybe I had something to do with that, I don't know.
:15:43. > :15:54.Story after story after story is bad. I won, I won. There is zero
:15:55. > :16:00.chaos. This is a fine tuned machine and the press should be ashamed of
:16:01. > :16:04.themselves. He's is resetting his presidency or trying, after four
:16:05. > :16:08.tough weeks with leaks and problems and firing. He was just trying to
:16:09. > :16:13.reset and that was his way of doing it. He goes in that press conference
:16:14. > :16:18.and suddenly he's like that Trump that goes, come at me. I'll shut you
:16:19. > :16:23.down, I'll insult you until you to sit down. Sit down, I understand the
:16:24. > :16:30.rest of your question. Quite, quite, quite. Sit down. You don't have to
:16:31. > :16:34.do that. I don't have to tell you what I'm going to do in North Korea
:16:35. > :16:38.and eventually you guys are going to get tired of asking that question.
:16:39. > :16:44.He's never been in a place where if he tells the lie it's going to get
:16:45. > :16:50.reported as a lie. This is a different kind of press corps. I
:16:51. > :16:51.guess he was -- it was the biggest electoral college win since Ronald
:16:52. > :17:22.Reagan. I was given that information. I was
:17:23. > :17:26.given that information but it was a very substantial victory, do you
:17:27. > :17:32.agree with that? OK, thank you, that's a good answer. You can push
:17:33. > :17:36.back and say no, we're not fake news, wield real news. At some point
:17:37. > :17:40.the President of the United States has to deal with reality, has to
:17:41. > :17:45.deal with real news. I think the only thing that's worse than fake
:17:46. > :17:49.news is the denial of real news. Aren't you concerned you are
:17:50. > :17:52.undermining the people's faith and the first Amendment, freedom of the
:17:53. > :17:56.press in this country when you call stories you don't like fake news?
:17:57. > :18:00.Why don't you just say it's a story I don't like? We just keep doing our
:18:01. > :18:08.job. Nobody ever got into becoming a reporter to be loved. If he wants to
:18:09. > :18:12.go after us, that's his decision. I'm not sure that's a smart,
:18:13. > :18:19.long-term decision for building support in the country. Four years
:18:20. > :18:27.to go. Yeah, I mean, you don't like to be locked in with a group called
:18:28. > :18:30.a bunch of liars, especially when the person doing it is the President
:18:31. > :18:34.of the United States of America, and when your job is to cover the
:18:35. > :18:39.President of the United States. It's hard to explain. After awhile it
:18:40. > :18:47.just doesn't bother you any more. You just go for your story, ask your
:18:48. > :18:54.questions. It is stressful and training, but I feel such pride that
:18:55. > :18:58.we, in the face of all this, did our very best to present the most honest
:18:59. > :19:01.account of what happened here in this building to our audience each
:19:02. > :19:06.day. Because if they don't hear it from us, I'm not sure whether they
:19:07. > :19:11.will know the truth. That was put together by Ollie
:19:12. > :19:14.Lambert. Earlier I spoke to congressman
:19:15. > :19:17.Tom Reed, a Republican known I asked him what he thought
:19:18. > :19:22.of Mr Trump's more The President has his own style,
:19:23. > :19:27.I have my style, but what he's bringing to the table
:19:28. > :19:32.is a new vision for America, for Let's talk about his relationship
:19:33. > :19:36.with the press, with the media. He obviously thinks
:19:37. > :19:38.they're out to get him. Do you agree with the way
:19:39. > :19:40.he's handled the press Well you know, again,
:19:41. > :19:47.he has his own style and we all appreciate that,
:19:48. > :19:50.in our different ways, but holding the press accountable
:19:51. > :19:53.I think is a positive thing. But at the same time,
:19:54. > :19:55.we need a strong, free press in America and I support free press
:19:56. > :19:58.and holding people accountable in elected office is something
:19:59. > :20:00.that we do traditionally and will continue to
:20:01. > :20:04.do as we go forward. I tell you what, let me ask
:20:05. > :20:06.you three yes/no questions I've got to see really
:20:07. > :20:17.whether you agree with the President Do you factually agree
:20:18. > :20:21.with the President when he says they make up sources in order
:20:22. > :20:24.to make up stories, fake news? Do you think that the New York Times
:20:25. > :20:27.makes up stories, yes or no? I think there's always
:20:28. > :20:31.a kernel of truth in each But that's why holding
:20:32. > :20:34.the press accountable, as well as the press holding
:20:35. > :20:37.the President and us accountable as elected officials,
:20:38. > :20:39.that's what the American tradition The next one, do you agree
:20:40. > :20:44.that the press are the enemies of the people, would you use phrase
:20:45. > :20:47.to describe the media? I think when you're talking
:20:48. > :20:49.about an objective press that's doing the job of journalism,
:20:50. > :20:51.that's made us proud That is a tradition that we support
:20:52. > :20:55.and has made us stronger And I'll just give you a last
:20:56. > :21:00.one on this very brief, this kind of quickfire round,
:21:01. > :21:02.do you agree with excluding the New York Times and CNN
:21:03. > :21:05.from the briefings, the way Did you think that
:21:06. > :21:11.was good practice? I'll let the White House answer
:21:12. > :21:16.for that, but in this day and age of 24/7 news coverage,
:21:17. > :21:18.there's not a move that isn't covered immediately
:21:19. > :21:21.by the press, and that's good. That's why I do the town halls,
:21:22. > :21:24.that's why I answer to our folks back home, because standing in front
:21:25. > :21:27.of people and being held accountable is what it is to be an elected
:21:28. > :21:30.official and I respect that and I take that responsibility
:21:31. > :21:32.very seriously. A lot of people are saying the kind
:21:33. > :21:34.of battles he picks, particularly the one with the media,
:21:35. > :21:37.is designed to distract everybody's attention away
:21:38. > :21:39.from more substantive issues, notably the issue of his
:21:40. > :21:42.relations or his staff's Do you buy that, that there
:21:43. > :21:46.is a kind of distraction I don't think it's
:21:47. > :21:49.a distraction strategy. I know that's new to a lot
:21:50. > :21:55.of people and that can be disruptive in of itself,
:21:56. > :21:57.but what he's doing, he's delivering There are so many politicians
:21:58. > :22:02.who have not done that. Do you think Congress is going to be
:22:03. > :22:05.a problem for him over Working with the President,
:22:06. > :22:09.there's going to be Obviously there's going to be that
:22:10. > :22:13.debate that Congress has always had with the presidents,
:22:14. > :22:15.over the years, but that's the process we enjoy,
:22:16. > :22:19.that's the process that's made us strong for generations and I only
:22:20. > :22:22.see that the reinforced by this OK, let's take a specific
:22:23. > :22:26.one on the relationship He is proposing to spend
:22:27. > :22:28.50-something billion You guys in Congress don't
:22:29. > :22:33.like borrowing more. He's not going to be able to find
:22:34. > :22:38.the money just from cutting environmental protection
:22:39. > :22:39.or the State Department And that's why we have a process,
:22:40. > :22:46.that's why Congress is going to be part of that process,
:22:47. > :22:48.just as the White House Going back and fourth
:22:49. > :22:52.is what the legislative process Tom Reed, Congressman Reed,
:22:53. > :22:57.thank you so much, thank you. Joining me now from New York
:22:58. > :23:02.is Tina Brown, former editor of, Tatler, Vanity Fair,
:23:03. > :23:13.the New Yorker to name but a few. Thank you for joining us. Do you
:23:14. > :23:16.think the press, as a sort of community, if you can think of it
:23:17. > :23:21.that way, do you think they gave Donald Trump a fair hearing when he
:23:22. > :23:25.arrived in office and won the election? I think there has been a
:23:26. > :23:30.huge amount of hyperventilation from the press, but I will say that I
:23:31. > :23:35.think they were kind of gobsmacked when he just came right out of the
:23:36. > :23:39.box and insulted them. The very first press conference at Sean
:23:40. > :23:43.Spicer held, which is normally the here we are, welcome to the new
:23:44. > :23:47.administration, was this sort of absolutely crazed bull running at
:23:48. > :23:52.them, telling them that they had lied about the absolutely
:23:53. > :23:55.demonstrable figures of the inauguration crowds, calling them
:23:56. > :23:59.lies. I think they were almost winded by that, to be honest. It was
:24:00. > :24:03.a staggering display of instant animosity from the other side. It's
:24:04. > :24:08.really only got worse every day afterwards. Do you think the press
:24:09. > :24:11.have, if you like, taken him seriously and taken his mission,
:24:12. > :24:14.which I think he sees to shake things up a lot, do you think
:24:15. > :24:17.they've given him enough of the benefit of the doubt on that
:24:18. > :24:25.mission? I think one of the problems is that
:24:26. > :24:29.he's so abusive and... The difficulty is everybody response to
:24:30. > :24:34.every tweet as if it is something serious to respond which I think is
:24:35. > :24:39.an enormous Tessmann mistake because they waste for freight. At the same
:24:40. > :24:42.time, Trump, I think they are foolish and away to be as shocked as
:24:43. > :24:47.they are that he's delivering on what he says he's going to do.
:24:48. > :24:49.Ultimately we're so used to Presidents coming in after campaign
:24:50. > :24:55.promises and saying they're going to do things and actually they don't,
:24:56. > :24:59.that Trump coming out of the box like a raging bull saying he's going
:25:00. > :25:03.ban Muslims and rescind transgender rights and all the things he's
:25:04. > :25:08.doing, people are aghast because he said he was going to do those things
:25:09. > :25:12.are now he's saying again he's going to do them. The difference now is he
:25:13. > :25:17.can't do most of them. The danger now is he will be all hat and no
:25:18. > :25:20.cattle, as they say, a guy that shoots his mouth off and says he's
:25:21. > :25:24.riding out there to change everything and he can't because he
:25:25. > :25:29.is sloppy, uninformed, poor legislative expertise and a kind of
:25:30. > :25:34.very naive idea about how government works. What he said yesterday or the
:25:35. > :25:37.other day, it turns out health care is very complicated, much more
:25:38. > :25:41.complicated than we thought. You could hear the hollow laughter
:25:42. > :25:46.echoing around Capitol Hill. Presidents have resident with health
:25:47. > :25:50.care. Look what happened to Hillary Clinton when she tried on behalf of
:25:51. > :25:54.Bill Clinton, it's a tough thing to do not easy. He thought he could
:25:55. > :25:58.come raging in and fix it. He's going to go to Congress tonight and
:25:59. > :26:02.make a speech. His next battle could be with Congress, they will go in
:26:03. > :26:05.the normal Washington Way, compromising and looking at the
:26:06. > :26:09.process as they call it an Trump will be Trump and not want to do it
:26:10. > :26:12.that way. The public, they seem at the moment to be more behind Donald
:26:13. > :26:18.Trump, his supporters have remained faithful. The public seem to prefer
:26:19. > :26:22.the president to Congress. Where is this going to go over the next two
:26:23. > :26:28.to three years? I personally think that within a few months Trump will
:26:29. > :26:34.be against Congress. I don't think the press will be the enemy, it will
:26:35. > :26:38.be people in Congress who don't pass the Mexican War bill... I think he's
:26:39. > :26:43.going to go to war with Congress very quickly and then become a kind
:26:44. > :26:47.of maverick folk hero to his base, who will feel here is the guy we
:26:48. > :26:51.elected, we gave him a mandate to do all these things and Congress is
:26:52. > :26:55.thwarting him. Then there's going to be a lot of rock and roll, because
:26:56. > :26:58.then you're going to see people losing their seats. They're going to
:26:59. > :27:02.be going to war with their own constituents. It will be very
:27:03. > :27:04.interesting to see how that shapes up. No one will disagree with that.
:27:05. > :27:06.Tina Brown, thank you. Also joining me from New York
:27:07. > :27:09.now is Ann Coulter, conservative commentator,
:27:10. > :27:19.Trump supporter, and author I wonder if I can ask you, do you
:27:20. > :27:22.think he goes out of his way to make enemies? A lot of politicians think
:27:23. > :27:26.their job is to make friends, even if they are being a bit phoney.
:27:27. > :27:29.President Trump clearly doesn't believe that?
:27:30. > :27:36.I think the positions he's taken are so opposed by both Conservative and
:27:37. > :27:40.Liberal media, the Democrat and Republican party and certainly
:27:41. > :27:45.corporate America that they will be sworn enemies no matter what he did.
:27:46. > :27:49.If you're going to come out against illegal immigration and for building
:27:50. > :27:54.a wall and protecting working-class Americans, all of the elites in
:27:55. > :28:00.America will be opposed to you. It's pretty much Trump and 65 million
:28:01. > :28:04.voters against all of the elites of Wall Street, Washington, DC,
:28:05. > :28:07.certainly of Hollywood. They want their cheap mates, the Democrats
:28:08. > :28:13.want the votes. It's his positions that made him their sworn enemy, not
:28:14. > :28:19.anything, how he speaks or anything else. We haven't spoken since way
:28:20. > :28:22.before the election. You framed it there as the elite against the
:28:23. > :28:26.working people of the United States. We haven't had a chance to talk to
:28:27. > :28:29.you. There are a lot of billionaires and Goldman Sachs blokes employed in
:28:30. > :28:35.the Donald Trump administration. What's going on there? Well, a lot
:28:36. > :28:38.of people have worked for Goldman Sachs. The ones I guess you're
:28:39. > :28:44.talking about aren't working there now. Even before Trump... What are
:28:45. > :28:49.you talking about, they are the elite, aren't they? That are some
:28:50. > :28:53.elite who support Raw but by and large they are against them. There
:28:54. > :28:57.are a few senators and good congressman but by and large out of
:28:58. > :29:02.hundreds of members they are with the lobbyists, with Chamber of
:29:03. > :29:05.Commerce and the prediction of the last guess, that Trump would go to
:29:06. > :29:10.war with Republicans in Congress, she's a little late on that, he's
:29:11. > :29:14.gone to war with them. Donald Trump famously refused to endorse the
:29:15. > :29:21.Speaker of the house during the election, Tom Ryan. Paul Ryan,
:29:22. > :29:28.sorry. Where is it going to go? We are denied they're not going to cut
:29:29. > :29:33.the Department state aid budget as much as they can to fund military
:29:34. > :29:39.spending, this is a movable object needs irresistible force, isn't it?
:29:40. > :29:43.No, I think the people are with Trump. Part of the reason he got
:29:44. > :29:46.elected was because we are sick of this do nothing Republicans in
:29:47. > :29:52.Congress. Congress was elected as well. Congress was elected, too.
:29:53. > :29:56.They've got their row mandate, their legitimate as well, aren't they? I'm
:29:57. > :30:04.not saying they're not legitimate and saying they're not popular.
:30:05. > :30:08.That's why someone who was so out of politics was just made president of
:30:09. > :30:12.the United States. You have two choices, generally when someone is
:30:13. > :30:14.running for Senate, Democrat or Republican. I spent the last few
:30:15. > :30:20.election cycles haranguing Republican voters to vote for people
:30:21. > :30:23.like Mitch McConnell, I don't particularly like him either but
:30:24. > :30:27.he's better than a Democrat. OK, you take that choice but I think you
:30:28. > :30:32.probably will see a lot more drama Republicans. It takes a while for
:30:33. > :30:35.this turnover. It's like the House of Lords, Congress, it's very hard
:30:36. > :30:41.to get rid of incumbents but they aren't very popular with the people.
:30:42. > :30:48.Let me ask you about the press. You did not see art inside view of the
:30:49. > :30:52.relationship between the White House and the press, do you think it is
:30:53. > :30:56.legitimate for US newspapers with millions of readers to ask questions
:30:57. > :31:01.about the relationship between the Trump team and the Russians? Or just
:31:02. > :31:07.false narrative and getting in the way? Like so much else, the elements
:31:08. > :31:13.of the media that are asking, the media is large, and a lot of that is
:31:14. > :31:17.just pumping out fake blues at a mile a minute and this nonsense over
:31:18. > :31:22.Russia, it is strange coming from someone like me who was on the side
:31:23. > :31:27.of Reagan during the Cold War to have these modern day John Birch
:31:28. > :31:32.types looking for a Russian underneath every bad. But I think it
:31:33. > :31:35.is worth pointing out that Trump is not at war with the media but at war
:31:36. > :31:40.with the fake news coming from the media. I believe everyone has always
:31:41. > :31:44.accepted you cannot have a democracy if the media do not print the truth.
:31:45. > :31:52.And this media at least a lot of it, do not. But the New York Times, CNN,
:31:53. > :31:56.ABC, from the modern was a king Boz to the Russian news, to this crazy
:31:57. > :32:04.thing about Sweden. They falsely accused him of claiming there was a
:32:05. > :32:07.terrorist attack in Sweden. And knocking a disabled reporter. We
:32:08. > :32:09.could talk all day about this. Thank you so much.
:32:10. > :32:12.When it comes to criminal justice, there are two reasonable
:32:13. > :32:14.sounding propositions, that are in conflict with each
:32:15. > :32:16.other: One says all significant crimes should be properly
:32:17. > :32:21.The other says resources should be focussed on the most serious crimes
:32:22. > :32:26.The police have to weigh up these two every day -
:32:27. > :32:29.but one chief constable made explicit the tensions between them
:32:30. > :32:31.with respect to crimes of abuse of children -
:32:32. > :32:33.suggesting that those who view indecent images but go no further
:32:34. > :32:39.should not be jailed but rehabilitated.
:32:40. > :32:42.This does not mean that the offender doesn't get arrested,
:32:43. > :32:43.because I would recommend they absolutely do,
:32:44. > :32:46.but there is, I believe, a space here for the effective
:32:47. > :32:53.The fact that organisations like Lucy Faithfull Foundation,
:32:54. > :32:55.with programmes they have, are able to demonstrate
:32:56. > :32:58.they have a positive impact upon men who have unhealthy thoughts around
:32:59. > :33:05.children, and this is around saying we need to target our resources
:33:06. > :33:08.against those people who are intent in committing the most
:33:09. > :33:15.Well, Chief Constable Bailey who you heard there is the head
:33:16. > :33:20.of Operation Hydrant, which is investigating multiple
:33:21. > :33:22.allegations of historic sexual abuse across the UK.
:33:23. > :33:24.His comments have prompted quite a debate.
:33:25. > :33:26.So is there such a thing as a low risk paedophile?
:33:27. > :33:29.Jim Gamble is a senior police officer, and was
:33:30. > :33:30.the founding Chief Executive of the Child Exploitation
:33:31. > :33:40.He now serves on a number of local authority child safeguarding boards.
:33:41. > :33:42.Dr Heather Wood is a Consultant Adult Psychotherapist -
:33:43. > :33:45.at the Portman Clinic in London, which is part of the Tavistock
:33:46. > :33:56.Thank you for joining us. Thinking about the numbers, to have any idea
:33:57. > :34:01.what the numbers are in this category of people who look at
:34:02. > :34:04.indecent images but go no further? I do not think anyone knows and that
:34:05. > :34:13.is part of the problem. We from exercises carried out using software
:34:14. > :34:18.in 2012, CEOP estimated 60, 70,000 people at any one time could be
:34:19. > :34:22.downloading images. Last November it was estimated at up to 100000 and
:34:23. > :34:28.that figure is extrapolated aboard spot much of it based on a guess.
:34:29. > :34:32.The figures of 100,000 are based on software that monitors particular
:34:33. > :34:36.image is being downloaded. I have heard much higher figures, like half
:34:37. > :34:42.a million plus or something like that. There are figures were the
:34:43. > :34:47.NSPCC for example in some combined studies extrapolate those figures
:34:48. > :34:53.out to 750,000. But the bottom line is it is how we deter people. I just
:34:54. > :34:56.want to know how many weird talking about because in terms of
:34:57. > :35:04.practicality of sending people to Jane -- to jail. Heather, do you
:35:05. > :35:09.have rates of paedophilia, prevalence rates, you know what the
:35:10. > :35:16.numbers are? We do not know what the percentages are. If we went through
:35:17. > :35:25.a policy of rehabilitation, how successful is that, I mean...?
:35:26. > :35:30.Paedophilia essentially is a mental health diagnosis so we have to make
:35:31. > :35:33.a distinction between people who offend against children, which is
:35:34. > :35:38.the business of the criminal justice system, and people who have a
:35:39. > :35:41.paedophilic sexual interest around children so some of the people who
:35:42. > :35:46.offend against children are not actually consistently paedophilic in
:35:47. > :35:51.their sexual orientation. There are some people who are paedophilic who
:35:52. > :35:55.never enact with children. And I think we now know as a result of the
:35:56. > :36:01.behaviour we have observed in relation to the intranet, there are
:36:02. > :36:04.some people who have made adult to adult intimate relationships but
:36:05. > :36:10.actually under the influence of immersion in internet sex, actually
:36:11. > :36:12.break down to express a more explicitly paedophilic sexual
:36:13. > :36:16.interest. So I think these are different groups of people. Would
:36:17. > :36:22.you accept that there are these categories? I do not because when it
:36:23. > :36:27.comes to managing risk, that has not been my experience. So we find
:36:28. > :36:31.someone who goes online to view images of children, the hypothesis
:36:32. > :36:34.is that those looking at low level images represent perhaps a lower
:36:35. > :36:39.risk but that has not been my experience. I've seen individuals
:36:40. > :36:43.looking at the lowest form of image who have committed the most
:36:44. > :36:48.horrendous crimes. And I can give you examples of those individuals.
:36:49. > :36:52.If we're going to base the risk management regime on that basis then
:36:53. > :36:57.you are playing the lottery with the lives of children. Is that fair?
:36:58. > :37:01.Yes, I agree on this point. You cannot tell the difference on the
:37:02. > :37:06.basis of the nature of the images people are looking at. So we have
:37:07. > :37:10.seen people who for example can get sexually aroused by looking at
:37:11. > :37:13.Mothercare catalogue. It does not actually differentiate between high
:37:14. > :37:20.and low-level offenders but there are criteria. Can you extinguish
:37:21. > :37:24.between high and low risk offenders? I think both from research evidence
:37:25. > :37:28.and from clinical experience, we're starting to develop an awareness of
:37:29. > :37:33.what the criteria are. And is that good enough then for us to say you
:37:34. > :37:37.are low risk, so we will treat you differently from someone who we
:37:38. > :37:42.think is high risk. You think it is question mark yes, and I think
:37:43. > :37:47.researchers are refining reliable tools like now. Have you any idea
:37:48. > :37:51.what the kind of error rate is, and we probably have to accept there are
:37:52. > :37:56.always some risks in every case, but you know what the error rate is if
:37:57. > :38:03.you think this person is not likely to offend against a child, are you
:38:04. > :38:09.wrong 91% of the time, how much? I do not know. In the study that
:38:10. > :38:13.Heather took part in herself, looking at 20 offenders over a
:38:14. > :38:17.10-year period of time, one who dropped out went on to reoffend but
:38:18. > :38:20.that is just one who was caught reoffending so the issue, you're
:38:21. > :38:25.talking about the best liars in the world. Simon is delivering the wrong
:38:26. > :38:28.message to the wrong people at the wrong time. Parents and carers are
:38:29. > :38:32.anxious enough about this and to talk about it in blather terms about
:38:33. > :38:38.counselling is a mistake. The method should be to the government to say
:38:39. > :38:43.there are too many offenders, so invest... You cannot put another
:38:44. > :38:50.100,000 people in jail. We convicted 35,000 people in 2012 for drunk
:38:51. > :38:52.driving. Convicted and that means we investigated a lot more so we are
:38:53. > :38:56.being seduced into a position of saying that the numbers are too
:38:57. > :39:00.large but they're not. If we were talking about terrorism we would be
:39:01. > :39:05.investing resources, assets and money into getting better at this.
:39:06. > :39:09.We need to identify this. And the child sex abuse enquiry is taking
:39:10. > :39:12.evidence and those people currently going to bed demented tonight by the
:39:13. > :39:15.legacy of what happened in the past could have been better protected if
:39:16. > :39:20.we had taken the numbers more seriously in days gone by. And we
:39:21. > :39:22.cannot have this. We need to leave it there, thank you.
:39:23. > :39:26.And tonight, American philosopher Daniel Dennett offers us an opinion.
:39:27. > :39:29.He is the author of among other works, Consciousness Explained;
:39:30. > :39:31.he specialises in the philosophy of mind; his latest book
:39:32. > :39:36.And he has views on artificial intelligence.
:39:37. > :39:43.They're making smart tools, not colleagues.
:39:44. > :39:47.Artificial intelligence is now harnessing algorithms that
:39:48. > :39:50.mindlessly sift through gigantic datasets, yielding brilliant
:39:51. > :39:58.After several dormant decades AI is blooming again and computers
:39:59. > :40:03.They're already better than the experts in many
:40:04. > :40:08.Various visionaries are predicting that super intelligent
:40:09. > :40:12.agents are inevitable - balderdash!
:40:13. > :40:15.While I agree that it's possible in principle to make a super
:40:16. > :40:17.intelligent artificial agent smarter than any person, don't
:40:18. > :40:25.IBM's duly famous Watson, the Jeopardy quiz show winner,
:40:26. > :40:30.could in principle be enlarged into an agent worth befriending,
:40:31. > :40:33.say, but the project would cost maybe a million times more
:40:34. > :40:37.than making Watson in the first place, and who would pay for it?
:40:38. > :40:40.What we need is smart tools, not artificial colleagues,
:40:41. > :40:43.and that's all we're going to get in the foreseeable future.
:40:44. > :40:47.The biggest and truly imminent danger is overestimating
:40:48. > :40:52.the comprehension of these tools and ceding moral authority to them.
:40:53. > :40:55.People tend to overestimate the comprehension of any AI that
:40:56. > :41:02.We must break this congenial habit and train users
:41:03. > :41:05.to treat the tool as a tool for which they are responsible.
:41:06. > :41:07.First, banish cutesy human touches which are, to put it
:41:08. > :41:14.Second, users should be licensed and bonded.
:41:15. > :41:18.The insurance companies would then insist that manufacturers divulge
:41:19. > :41:21.any known blindspots or weaknesses, the same way pharmaceutical
:41:22. > :41:23.companies must now real off all the known side-effects
:41:24. > :41:29.AI inventors have deep pockets, let's make sure we hold them
:41:30. > :41:43.responsible for the dangers they're introducing into the world.
:41:44. > :41:46.That's it for today, which is of course Pancake Day.
:41:47. > :41:49.So courtesy of Pathe, we leave you at the Old Kent Road
:41:50. > :41:51.pancake race, which was held in February 1963, just three
:41:52. > :41:53.weeks before the Beatles kicked off the modern era.
:41:54. > :41:59.Captain Courage, a name of note in thirsty London,
:42:00. > :42:04.There's 350 yards to go, that's a furlong and a half with 20
:42:05. > :42:09.Right from the beginning out in front is Grace Walsh,
:42:10. > :42:15.hot favourite, mother of two, winner last year.
:42:16. > :42:23.Nobody can catch Grace, she's going strong as she bursts the tape.
:42:24. > :42:27.Champagne for the winner and a prize of ?10.
:42:28. > :42:45.Now, one last toss of the pancakes, including one that got away.
:42:46. > :42:46.Good evening. We're heading into the month of March