02/03/2017

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:00:10. > :00:11.Last night, we learnt that Jeff Sessions,

:00:12. > :00:13.the Attorney-General of

:00:14. > :00:16.the United States, who lied under oath to his colleagues in the Senate

:00:17. > :00:19.and to the American people about his communications with the Russians.

:00:20. > :00:24.They said that since I had involvement with

:00:25. > :00:38.the campaign, I should not be involved in any campaign

:00:39. > :00:41.investigation - therefore I have recused myself in the matters that

:00:42. > :00:46.Another huge row about the Russia connection.

:00:47. > :00:48.The Attorney General is in the spotlight this time,

:00:49. > :00:50.not just over his meetings with the Russian ambassador,

:00:51. > :00:55.Is the administration accident prone, careless or unfairly treated?

:00:56. > :01:08.On World Book Day, Stephen Smith meets Raymond Briggs.

:01:09. > :01:10.I know there will be a last time I walk this path,

:01:11. > :01:14.before the hospital, before the home, before something.

:01:15. > :01:20.And the irony is, you never know that the time that it is to be the

:01:21. > :01:32.We'll get the latest, as Francois Fillon's home is searched.

:01:33. > :01:51.Is this really the future of communication?

:01:52. > :01:58.Jeff Sessions - the second Trump appointment

:01:59. > :02:00.to get into a tangle about Russia and about his honesty.

:02:01. > :02:08.The Attorney General denied any Russian contact

:02:09. > :02:11.But he in fact met the ambassador twice.

:02:12. > :02:13.As one Twitter wit put it, he might as well have said,

:02:14. > :02:16."I did not have international relations with that country."

:02:17. > :02:18.Sessions says the meetings didn't relate to Trump or the election,

:02:19. > :02:21.which was the context of the questions he was answering.

:02:22. > :02:26.But in the last 90 minutes, he has recused himself from any

:02:27. > :02:28.investigation into the Trump campaign or its

:02:29. > :02:31.Do you give him the benefit of the doubt?

:02:32. > :02:34.Probably depends on whether you think Trump is a good thing or not.

:02:35. > :02:54.Trump and Russia - once an apparently irresistible combination

:02:55. > :03:01.for those marketing a vodka. This is their advertisement. But now, the

:03:02. > :03:07.connection is a cocktail of political difficulties and a tonic

:03:08. > :03:14.to his foes. Today's target, Trump's chief law officer, who, after a

:03:15. > :03:18.stormy day, stepped back, from all investigations of links between the

:03:19. > :03:24.campaign and washer. My staff recommended recusal. They said that

:03:25. > :03:29.since I had involvement with the campaign, I should not be involved

:03:30. > :03:32.with any campaign investigation. I have studied the rules and

:03:33. > :03:39.considered their comments and evaluation. I believe those

:03:40. > :03:43.recommendations are right and just. That won't satisfy Senate Democrats,

:03:44. > :03:51.who earlier today called for his resignation. Attorney General

:03:52. > :03:54.Sessions cannot possibly lead an investigation into Russian

:03:55. > :03:58.interference in our elections, or come anywhere near it. With these

:03:59. > :04:05.revelations, he may very well become the subject of it. It would be of

:04:06. > :04:14.Alice in Wonderland quality of this administration were to sanction him

:04:15. > :04:18.to investigate himself. The cause of those difficulties is a written

:04:19. > :04:22.denial from the US Attorney General that he had met Russian officials,

:04:23. > :04:25.and this one during his Senate confirmation hearing. If there is

:04:26. > :04:31.any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated

:04:32. > :04:38.with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will

:04:39. > :04:45.you do? Senator, I am not aware of any of those activities. I have been

:04:46. > :04:51.called a surrogates in that campaign, and I did not have

:04:52. > :04:58.communications with the Russians. Tonight, it became clear that he HAD

:04:59. > :05:03.met the Russian ambassador last year and spoken him by phone, he argues

:05:04. > :05:08.on previous Senate business, but critics now suggest there has been

:05:09. > :05:15.deception. The Democrats are making political mischief out of Trump's

:05:16. > :05:22.Russian connection. You can feel them paying them back for what they

:05:23. > :05:27.did to Bill and Hillary Clinton. But the house and Senate are controlled

:05:28. > :05:32.by Republicans, and it is signs of nervousness among THEM which make

:05:33. > :05:38.today's story all the more interesting. During the day, several

:05:39. > :05:47.influential Republicans had called on Sessions to recuse himself from

:05:48. > :05:51.the matter. Based on what we have read, I think the Attorney General

:05:52. > :05:58.should further clarify. In fact I think he's going to need to recuse

:05:59. > :06:03.himself. The FBI has multiple lines of inquiry, drawing on intelligence

:06:04. > :06:08.from many of America's 16 other agencies. The Senate and House

:06:09. > :06:14.intelligence committees also have investigations. And under the

:06:15. > :06:19.spotlight, former advisers Mike Flynn and Pohlman effort, Trump's

:06:20. > :06:22.lawyer Michael Coen, and even the former business activities of the

:06:23. > :06:27.commerce secretary. All of this, fuelled by secret information that's

:06:28. > :06:33.been disseminated around Washington by the outgoing administration. So,

:06:34. > :06:42.the Obama administration made sure that this secret information was

:06:43. > :06:45.broadly spread among many people in the intelligence community, among

:06:46. > :06:48.the 17 American intelligence agencies, because they were afraid

:06:49. > :06:52.that once in office, Donald Trump and his minions would delete the

:06:53. > :06:57.records and the evidence would disappear. It is clear now that

:06:58. > :07:00.that, if it was a plan, will not work. It is also clear that Donald

:07:01. > :07:06.Trump is absolutely desperate to make sure that no-one investigates

:07:07. > :07:11.this. The president who once lent his name to a brand of vodka tonight

:07:12. > :07:15.declared total confidence in his Attorney General. Look at the number

:07:16. > :07:20.and compact cities of investigation is under way suggests the

:07:21. > :07:25.administration could have a lasting Russia hangover.

:07:26. > :07:28.Joining me now from Minneapolis is Richard Painter -

:07:29. > :07:31.the former chief White House ethics adviser to George W Bush.

:07:32. > :07:43.Good evening to you. Jeff Sessions has recused himself - is that

:07:44. > :07:47.enough, in your view? Well, it is a step in the right direction. But we

:07:48. > :07:53.have a very serious problem here in the United States, and this problem

:07:54. > :07:59.has spread to Europe as well. The Russians are actively seeking to

:08:00. > :08:06.destabilise our democracies by appealing to far right political

:08:07. > :08:10.parties and engaging in espionage. For years they appealed to the

:08:11. > :08:13.commonest party and the far left in espionage. We have been fighting

:08:14. > :08:19.this battle with the Russians for a very long time. And it's critically

:08:20. > :08:23.important to know what happened in 2016, what spying was going on

:08:24. > :08:27.inside the United States and who was assisting the Russians, who

:08:28. > :08:30.benefited from it, who was negotiating with them, perhaps

:08:31. > :08:37.offering them something in return for their swaying an election? This

:08:38. > :08:40.is a matter of national-security for the United States, just like what's

:08:41. > :08:44.going on in France right now should be a matter of concern to the French

:08:45. > :08:52.and other countries that Russia seeks to infiltrate in this way. The

:08:53. > :08:58.Attorney General was asked questions by the Judiciary Committee, and he

:08:59. > :09:01.did not provide candid answers. And that is very, very disappointing,

:09:02. > :09:08.because how are we going to deal with Russian espionage and this type

:09:09. > :09:11.of activity of our officials, our senior officials, cannot be honest

:09:12. > :09:15.with each other and with the United States Senate? Before we go more

:09:16. > :09:18.onto Jeff Sessions, I'm really interested in what you're saying

:09:19. > :09:23.about the Russians and how serious you think it is just paint for me,

:09:24. > :09:28.what is the worst case, what is for you the thing that would be most

:09:29. > :09:35.awful to uncover here that is even faintly possible or plausible? What

:09:36. > :09:39.is it that people are really scared off about the Trump campaign? Well,

:09:40. > :09:44.we do not know which Americans have been cooperating with the Russians

:09:45. > :09:52.in these efforts to subvert our democratic system. We've dealt with

:09:53. > :09:55.this in the past. We had Americans, Communists, who assisted the

:09:56. > :10:00.Russians in trying to subvert the United States, but they're not going

:10:01. > :10:03.never got very far in our political system because communism does not

:10:04. > :10:07.have much appeal over here. But when it comes to the far right, these

:10:08. > :10:11.strange groups who are also on the rise in Europe, the Russians

:10:12. > :10:14.realised they can gain a lot of traction in supporting these types

:10:15. > :10:18.of groups and then trying to interfere in a general election.

:10:19. > :10:21.It's a very dangerous thing which is going on, this type of interference.

:10:22. > :10:27.We need to know what is happening and who here in the United States is

:10:28. > :10:32.assisting it, and we need to make sure that people who were aware of

:10:33. > :10:35.it, benefited from it, knowingly, are nowhere near positions of power

:10:36. > :10:41.in the United States government. Let's go back to Jeff Sessions. You

:10:42. > :10:46.said he wasn't candid, a lot of people would agree that he wasn't

:10:47. > :10:51.candid, at the very least - why then would you not say he has to go? He

:10:52. > :10:54.is the Attorney General, he was on oath, he has called for other people

:10:55. > :10:59.to go when they said things which were not candid on both - why are

:11:00. > :11:05.you not saying he has to resign? Well, that was the position I took

:11:06. > :11:11.and indeed I published it in the New York Times earlier today. I believe

:11:12. > :11:15.he should resign, that he is no longer going to be an effect of

:11:16. > :11:21.Attorney General if he cannot be completely candid in discussions of

:11:22. > :11:26.such critical importance. This is not a situation where we can talk

:11:27. > :11:33.about the meaning of the word and that type of discussion we had after

:11:34. > :11:39.Bill Clinton's misleading deposition testimony about his sex life. We are

:11:40. > :11:43.not interested in the sex life of our public officials and less they

:11:44. > :11:46.are sleeping with Russian spies. We are interested in who is talking

:11:47. > :11:50.with the Russians and about what. A lot of those discussions are

:11:51. > :11:53.perfectly fine, so long as people are honest about them. The Attorney

:11:54. > :11:57.General said that he was not having contact with the Russians, when he

:11:58. > :12:01.was, and that is very, very misleading. He also said he didn't

:12:02. > :12:06.talk about the election or the campaign with the Russians, and that

:12:07. > :12:10.was the distinction he drew. Do you think it is plausible that anybody

:12:11. > :12:15.between August and November could have two conversations, senior

:12:16. > :12:21.policymakers, Washington people, with someone, and not talk about the

:12:22. > :12:27.American election at some point? Well, I don't know. But I don't

:12:28. > :12:31.think it is only of interest whether he was talking about the American

:12:32. > :12:35.election. Was he talking about what the Russians were doing inside the

:12:36. > :12:40.United States or what the Russians wanted out of the United States and

:12:41. > :12:44.might expect from President Trump if he were to be elected? It's

:12:45. > :12:48.critically important that American senior officials be honest with each

:12:49. > :12:52.other about their communications with the Russians of we're going to

:12:53. > :12:57.deal with this problem. This is not a situation where we should be

:12:58. > :13:01.passing words and trying to figure out how to interpret the question

:13:02. > :13:08.and the answer. Once again, these are not questions about the public

:13:09. > :13:12.officials' personal life, this is something going to the heart of our

:13:13. > :13:17.national security and an intentional attack on our democratic processes

:13:18. > :13:21.by a foreign country. Can I ask you what it says about the Republican

:13:22. > :13:28.party, that the House speaker, Orion, said this morning in the US,

:13:29. > :13:32.Jeff Sessions doesn't need to recuse himself, he doesn't think there was

:13:33. > :13:36.any evidence of a Russian connection to worry about - what does that tell

:13:37. > :13:39.you about the state of the party? Are they just running scared of

:13:40. > :13:44.Trump because they misjudged his ability to win? Well, I don't know

:13:45. > :13:49.what's going on with that. There's a lot of talk all over the place about

:13:50. > :13:54.how to respond to this, and I've been back in the Republican party

:13:55. > :13:59.for decades, and I served President George W Bush, and I can assure you

:14:00. > :14:03.that there are many, many Republicans who are livid about what

:14:04. > :14:09.Russia was doing in our country during 2016, spying on Americans. We

:14:10. > :14:13.have had Republican senators say that they want to get to the bottom

:14:14. > :14:17.of what Russia was doing. So, I think that's the view of the vast

:14:18. > :14:22.majority of Americans, Republicans, we're not going to put up with this,

:14:23. > :14:25.we're not going to put up with public officials showing any lack of

:14:26. > :14:29.candour about their communications with the Russians. We would like to

:14:30. > :14:33.have good relations with Russia, but that does not mean interference in

:14:34. > :14:36.the American political system or spying on American citizens and

:14:37. > :14:38.breaking into their computers and putting their documents up. We are

:14:39. > :14:43.not going to allow that. How is all this being

:14:44. > :14:45.seen in Russia itself? Igor Sutyagin is a Russia watcher at

:14:46. > :14:48.the Royal United Services Institute. He is a nuclear expert,

:14:49. > :14:51.who spent more than a decade in Russian prisons accused

:14:52. > :15:02.of passing classified information Good to have you here. Tell us what

:15:03. > :15:08.you think Russia's game is here. What is going on on the Russia side.

:15:09. > :15:12.What are they trying to achieve? They tried to undermine legitimacy

:15:13. > :15:17.of the newly elected president, which should be Hillary Clinton.

:15:18. > :15:25.They tried to weaken her position to have her having serious row in the

:15:26. > :15:33.domestically and weaken her position with Russia. That was their goal,

:15:34. > :15:38.instead they got Trump that was an unpleasant surprise. They wanted a

:15:39. > :15:44.destabilised Hillary Clinton not Trump. Trump was a spoiler. They

:15:45. > :15:51.didn't plan to have him as a partner. That is an interesting cock

:15:52. > :15:57.up theory of history. What do you think was going on? What would be

:15:58. > :16:01.the kind of hypothesis of what might have gone on between the Russians

:16:02. > :16:19.and the Trump campaign what, are we trying to see? Well, I think that

:16:20. > :16:26.Russia did try to collect some Kompromat on Trump, it was good to

:16:27. > :16:31.have him as a source of Kompromat on other politicians. You think they

:16:32. > :16:36.got something on Trump because? Because he was owner of chain of

:16:37. > :16:39.hotels and they're the perfect place to carry out intelligence

:16:40. > :16:45.situations. But you need the security of hotel to have blind eye.

:16:46. > :16:50.Well you have no evidence of this? No it is just logic. This is your

:16:51. > :16:53.speculation? Yes. It is interesting you say they probably didn't mean to

:16:54. > :16:59.get Trump, because it doesn't seem to be working for them f you look at

:17:00. > :17:02.what Trump is doing, everyone is saying aren't they being nice to the

:17:03. > :17:07.Russians, the only thing they have done is say we are going to spend

:17:08. > :17:13.another $60 million on defence, that leaves the Russians standing. The

:17:14. > :17:16.remilitarisation of the US and the remilitarisation of NATO. That is

:17:17. > :17:21.not great for the Russians. It is not great, but that is not the worst

:17:22. > :17:26.thing that Trump already done to Russia. The problem is that Trump

:17:27. > :17:30.destroyed the very foundation of the Russian policy to the west. It was

:17:31. > :17:36.the belief and knowledge that the west would act in the very

:17:37. > :17:42.predictable way. So Vladimir Putin can always play these threshold war

:17:43. > :17:46.not crossing red lines and the west plays according to the rules. Trump

:17:47. > :17:53.is not going to play according to the rules, because he does not know

:17:54. > :17:57.the rules and it is difficult to predicts where Trump's red line lay

:17:58. > :18:01.and you can cross it because of miscalculation. So Trump is playing

:18:02. > :18:05.a game more like Russians have played with other people and it is

:18:06. > :18:11.difficult? Fundamentally it is similar and that is why Trump is

:18:12. > :18:18.dangerous forrous. If Trump did lift sanctions, that would be a huge help

:18:19. > :18:22.to the Russians, correct? It might be, the problem is Trump is a

:18:23. > :18:27.businessman and does nothing for free. To make some service to Russia

:18:28. > :18:31.with sanctions he wants something with return and Russia does not have

:18:32. > :18:38.much to propose to Trump as the payment. So Trump will do nothing.

:18:39. > :18:46.Do you think, do you see likenesses between Trump and Vladimir Putin?

:18:47. > :18:51.People say they are both a big showy strong man, nays the same? They have

:18:52. > :18:59.fully similar attitudes, the nature is similar. But that is the danger.

:19:00. > :19:06.If you make it simple, it is two Harlem boys meeting each other and

:19:07. > :19:11.they can be friend each other. But it is more probable that fight each

:19:12. > :19:16.other. That is their nature. Two alpha males. The Russian saying is

:19:17. > :19:20.two bears cannot live in one hole. Thank you very much.

:19:21. > :19:22.If you are someone who thinks snap is a game for kids,

:19:23. > :19:26.that goes well with a slice of bread and butter and a glass of orange

:19:27. > :19:28.squash, you are probably not a user of Snapchat,

:19:29. > :19:31.whose parent company, Snap, had its debut on the New York

:19:32. > :19:34.It was quickly worth about $28 billion.

:19:35. > :19:36.There is, needless to say, a debate to be had about

:19:37. > :19:40.Perhaps it hinges on whether you think short video is to become

:19:41. > :19:43.the dominant form of communication, rather than boring old text.

:19:44. > :19:46.We'll reflect on that in a minute, but first, here's our technology

:19:47. > :19:59.Sometimes only a very old form of communication will do. Like hanging

:20:00. > :20:05.up a big sign outside the New York stock exchange or ringing an old

:20:06. > :20:09.bell. But Snap's valuation if it is based on anything is based on the

:20:10. > :20:12.idea that we have moved into a new era of communication. You might

:20:13. > :20:16.think it is a grand claim for a company that began as a way for

:20:17. > :20:23.people to send sexually explicit messages to each other that would

:20:24. > :20:29.then self destruct, but according to their video... Snap is a camera

:20:30. > :20:35.company, we feel we are at the beginning of what cameras can do.

:20:36. > :20:42.They augment the we talk. They say that keyboards are over and the

:20:43. > :20:47.cameras have preplaced -- replaced them. Plenty of investors are buying

:20:48. > :20:51.that idea and Snap's shares. I think that the market is moving more

:20:52. > :20:57.towards images and pictures than text. And we see this in everything.

:20:58. > :21:01.We see this in our business as a move from writing documents to power

:21:02. > :21:07.points. You see it in the dating industry and people used to be

:21:08. > :21:13.online with match and now people have moved to tinder and when you

:21:14. > :21:17.have new technologies like ARVR, where through you know the eye you

:21:18. > :21:23.can actually interact with products, rather than reading a magazine, I

:21:24. > :21:27.think this is definitely the trend. The founders will have been pleased

:21:28. > :21:31.with their day's work, the Snap share price up nearly 50% at one

:21:32. > :21:36.stage. Perhaps another sort of bell should be ringing about the fact

:21:37. > :21:43.that the rise in Snap's daily active users has slowed in recent quarters.

:21:44. > :21:48.I'm sceptical, I see it like a cargo cult, there are investment community

:21:49. > :21:55.that wants to see the great days of dot.com era. It is a messenger boy

:21:56. > :22:00.and carrying bits of messages, we have never put value on that. So it

:22:01. > :22:03.presents itself as a camera company. Although it is not. If we look at

:22:04. > :22:09.old new forms of communication, although they were revolutionary,

:22:10. > :22:15.they were easily copied. Think of typewriters. Think of e-mail.

:22:16. > :22:21.Although Snap from its beach front HQ in California has users, how

:22:22. > :22:28.loyal are they and how easily may they be temped by the next ttd app.

:22:29. > :22:33.I can see it being big like Facebook is big, but Facebook doesn't

:22:34. > :22:39.generate a lot of revenue and destroys over revenue-creating

:22:40. > :22:43.industries. The telephone network carried messages and that is what

:22:44. > :22:47.Facebook does. It is like a distribution network. It is

:22:48. > :22:52.important but not essential F we are living in a bubble era, we may look

:22:53. > :23:01.back and think this was another era where companies were overvalued.

:23:02. > :23:08.Snap has launched its own camera, it is built into a pair of spectacles,

:23:09. > :23:17.the visual image it believes is the future of social media and other

:23:18. > :23:22.text based apps like Twitter have struggled. People are not writing

:23:23. > :23:30.two page text documents. Facebook is a company that is less than ten

:23:31. > :23:33.years old and worth close to $300 billion, because people are spending

:23:34. > :23:39.a lot of time on Facebook and putting up a lot of data. Snapchat

:23:40. > :23:46.is no different, it is just a different demographic. Since Google

:23:47. > :23:51.set the standard, they have been a mixed bunch. Some up hugely and

:23:52. > :23:53.others losing their wings. We don't know whether Snap will crackle or

:23:54. > :23:58.nop long-term. -- or pop long-term. I'm joined now by Mike Butcher,

:23:59. > :24:00.editor-at-Large at Tech Crunch - which looks at all these

:24:01. > :24:02.new technology And from San Fransisco, Sarah Lacy,

:24:03. > :24:16.founder of the tech website Pando. How is going down in Silicon Valley?

:24:17. > :24:22.Well, I think right now we are having an identity crisis with Snap

:24:23. > :24:29.going public and being the fist big public mobile app, because it is not

:24:30. > :24:34.a San Francisco company. It is a moment more LA. It has a curious

:24:35. > :24:39.structure, they're not even shares, you can't vote. No vote. Four

:24:40. > :24:43.billion dollars have been given to staff and they can sell their

:24:44. > :24:47.shares, but still control the company. Did no one think maybe that

:24:48. > :24:53.the investors should go on strike on this one? They may have thought it,

:24:54. > :25:00.but it didn't happen. I mean, there is some bigger trends at play here.

:25:01. > :25:08.One is the idea of the cult of the founder founder, where the founder

:25:09. > :25:16.is a God in the company. You saw it with Elon Musk. And with Mark

:25:17. > :25:21.Zuckerberg taking control of Facebook and now you're seeing it to

:25:22. > :25:26.an extreme level with Snap. As long as people buy the shares, they can

:25:27. > :25:29.get away with it. Snap is operating in a climate where these companies,

:25:30. > :25:38.these private, highly valued companies have been unwilling to go

:25:39. > :25:44.public. Uber doesn't want to. And so Snap went public relatively quickly,

:25:45. > :25:49.set the terms it wanted and I think it was a smart move. In term of what

:25:50. > :25:56.it represents, it is video, it is not text. There is something going

:25:57. > :26:01.on here right? The funny thing is they describe themselves as a camera

:26:02. > :26:05.company, but they're not. They're a media company. They are in a bind.

:26:06. > :26:14.Essentially most of time you using Snapchat to send people messages.

:26:15. > :26:20.Either singly or to many and they can only monetise the many. They're

:26:21. > :26:24.getting media players and using stories to allow people to create

:26:25. > :26:29.media and that is where they will insert advertising. Is the basic

:26:30. > :26:36.thing, people want video and pictures apps and not text. Because

:26:37. > :26:39.Twitter started as a very short message thing, and doesn't seem to

:26:40. > :26:47.be doing as well as Snapchat. Absolutely. Twitter is about text

:26:48. > :26:51.and you can see Instagram, many times bigger than Twitter and

:26:52. > :26:55.Snapchat. Because it is about pictures and pictures speak a

:26:56. > :27:02.thousand words. That is why snap chat is about pictures and video. Do

:27:03. > :27:09.you buy that pictures are the future and text is old stuff. It is more

:27:10. > :27:14.that are pictures, it is videos. Instagram leapfrogged Twitter, but

:27:15. > :27:18.it has not done as well with video. And everyone is pushing, not just

:27:19. > :27:22.that users want to express themselves in video, but Facebook

:27:23. > :27:27.and Snap want TV money and that what is the internet than trying to get

:27:28. > :27:32.its grubby little entrepreneurial hands on for decades and it has

:27:33. > :27:39.never come over. If you read Snap, that is their gamble they will get

:27:40. > :27:46.TV money. It seems interesting is this, that you can look at Twitter

:27:47. > :27:56.and Instagram and the shelf life or the anxiety Guys life of these is

:27:57. > :28:04.three or four years. That doesn't just Fay $30 billion valuation. This

:28:05. > :28:09.is the why they're going to IPO and buying companieses and going for the

:28:10. > :28:17.TV money. But many of these big companies are snapping at their heel

:28:18. > :28:25.and all the big players, especially Facebook is looking at what Snap

:28:26. > :28:32.does and copies them. Other mra platforms can replicate it. I that

:28:33. > :28:42.is the big ask whether they can go as fast. Do you think Do you think

:28:43. > :28:47.today's five-year-olds will be using Snap when they're 30. It seems

:28:48. > :28:52.unlikely. They have the biggest engagement, young people, teens and

:28:53. > :28:56.others use Snapchat about 18 times a day and half an hour a day. It is

:28:57. > :29:03.the new TV for that generation. Thank you both very much.

:29:04. > :29:07.All the views that are fit to print in this spot.

:29:08. > :29:09.Today, the sociologist and cultural commentator Tiffany Jenkins explains

:29:10. > :29:12.why she thinks we should be not be getting het up about Donald Trump.

:29:13. > :31:22.You do not have to be an afficionado of European

:31:23. > :31:23.politics to find the French presidential election riveting.

:31:24. > :31:26.It is a two-stage election, the first vote is on 23rd April,

:31:27. > :31:32.Before we take stock with one of our favourite French

:31:33. > :31:34.political commentators, let's recap the three front runners.

:31:35. > :31:36.Other candidates are available, but not looking likely

:31:37. > :31:56.Now, the first of those three, Francois Fillon.

:31:57. > :32:03.He is embroiled in a row. He said if there was a formal investigation, he

:32:04. > :32:09.would step aside. There is, and he hasn't. In the first round, he is

:32:10. > :32:12.polling at 19%. Next is Marine Le Pen, leader of the far right Front

:32:13. > :32:16.National, these days likening herself to President Trump. She has

:32:17. > :32:21.her own financial problem, accused of misusing EU Parliament funds for

:32:22. > :32:29.French political activity and could be prosecuted for treating a graphic

:32:30. > :32:34.picture of an Isis beheading. And the third is Emmanuel Macron, the

:32:35. > :32:39.centrist candidate pitching himself as the freshfaced. No scandal yet,

:32:40. > :32:43.but then as a fresh face, there is still time. He has dismissed chatter

:32:44. > :32:47.that he's gay, saying that if he was, he would be open about it. He

:32:48. > :32:53.is at 24% in the poles. Joining me from Paris

:32:54. > :33:02.now is the political We have had him on the programme

:33:03. > :33:07.several times, including standing in the freezing cold in Paris. Nice to

:33:08. > :33:12.talk to you again! Can we start with Francois Fillon? He said he would

:33:13. > :33:20.step aside, he hasn't, what is going on? It is a big mess. Yesterday he

:33:21. > :33:25.was standing firm and reaffirming that he would go right to the end.

:33:26. > :33:29.And today his campaign is just falling apart. . All, we heard that

:33:30. > :33:35.this morning, police were searching his private home in Paris. Then he

:33:36. > :33:42.had several desertions in his team, the deputy campaign manager, the

:33:43. > :33:45.Treasurer, 45 MPs asked him to resign his candidacy and leave the

:33:46. > :33:51.place to somebody else, and he refuses. He's gambling everything on

:33:52. > :33:56.a big rally is organising on Sunday in Paris, which is very

:33:57. > :34:00.controversial, because it's going to attack the judicial system. But if

:34:01. > :34:04.that fails, and it is quite likely to fail, it's going to be

:34:05. > :34:08.irresistible for him to step down. Is there time for the party to put a

:34:09. > :34:13.new candidate in, because it is leaving it quite late now? Well,

:34:14. > :34:18.they have another candidate, Alain Juppe, the former Prime Minister,

:34:19. > :34:22.who came second in the primaries. Alain Juppe was for a long time the

:34:23. > :34:31.favourite in the opinion polls. He's quite popular, he's a moderate

:34:32. > :34:34.right-winger. The problem was that Nicholas are cosy was very much

:34:35. > :34:39.against him and refused to consider him standing in the place of

:34:40. > :34:44.Francois Fillon, but the party might not have any other option at the

:34:45. > :34:49.moment. Now, Marine Le Pen we know has got a couple of little issues

:34:50. > :34:52.around her funds and suchlike - am I right in thinking that her

:34:53. > :34:55.supporters would just say, this is just people trying to put her down

:34:56. > :34:58.because that is what the establishment does, and these are

:34:59. > :35:04.not really affecting her? You're completely right. Both candidates

:35:05. > :35:14.are in very different positions. Francois Fillon's voters are

:35:15. > :35:18.conservatives who are shocked by what he is being accused of. Marine

:35:19. > :35:23.Le Pen's voters agree that she was right to take Europe's money and use

:35:24. > :35:27.it for something else. They believe she's right when she says there is a

:35:28. > :35:30.plot to prevent her from reaching power, that the judges are in the

:35:31. > :35:39.hands of the government. So in a way, this is not affecting her at

:35:40. > :35:43.all in her call voting section. It makes it difficult for her to reach

:35:44. > :35:47.other voters, however, people who are not yet convinced by the

:35:48. > :35:52.National Front. She will need to reach 50% in the second run if she

:35:53. > :35:58.wants to win. And these problems are quite handy for her to go beyond her

:35:59. > :36:01.natural supporters. Who is supporting her? I have heard

:36:02. > :36:06.actually she has quite a lot of younger voters, which would be I

:36:07. > :36:13.suppose a bit of a surprise, to some extent? Not really. She has been

:36:14. > :36:18.supported by the losers of globalisation, to use a phrase that

:36:19. > :36:24.has been used during the Trump election in the US. And these would

:36:25. > :36:30.be people particularly in the north of France, former industrialised

:36:31. > :36:33.regions more people who have no job suspects and a lot of young people.

:36:34. > :36:41.There are neighbourhoods in northern France, where unemployment is

:36:42. > :36:44.reaching more than 40%. These are people who are angry and very

:36:45. > :36:50.resentful against what they call the system, and I support her for that.

:36:51. > :36:54.We have not left much time to do Macron, but briefly, he launched his

:36:55. > :37:00.manifesto today, people say the centre-left has had nothing today to

:37:01. > :37:06.say for ten years - what did he have to say, has he got a good message? I

:37:07. > :37:10.think so. I think he's trying to be neither right nor left, which is

:37:11. > :37:16.strange but fits the present state of politics in France. He's a social

:37:17. > :37:20.liberal, which means he wants to liberalise the economy but still

:37:21. > :37:24.bring the social protection the French like and want to continue to

:37:25. > :37:28.enjoy. Thank you very much, we will talk to you soon.

:37:29. > :37:31.Raymond Briggs, creator of Fungus the Bogeyman, the Snowman,

:37:32. > :37:33.and many other much loved stories, was recently honoured

:37:34. > :37:35.with a lifetime achievement award by Book Trust.

:37:36. > :37:38.Now in his 80's, he's finally emerged from a long period of caring

:37:39. > :37:40.for his late partner, and is working on something

:37:41. > :37:42.altogether more adult than his usual fare -

:37:43. > :37:44.it's a darkly comic meditation on age and death.

:37:45. > :37:47.What better way to mark World Book Day than to have our own

:37:48. > :37:52.Stephen Smith meet Raymond Briggs at his cottage in Sussex.

:37:53. > :38:05.# We're floating in the moonlit sky...

:38:06. > :38:10.How do you feel when you're doing Christmas shopping and you

:38:11. > :38:13.hear Aled Jones singing, we're walking in the air?

:38:14. > :38:20.He is a big fan of this programme, so

:38:21. > :38:35.I did an introduction to The Snowman film, and

:38:36. > :38:38.the Americans wanted somebody more important than me to do it.

:38:39. > :38:42.And they somehow got David Bowie to do it.

:38:43. > :38:44.One winter, I made a really big snowman.

:38:45. > :39:02.Wearing these wonderful glittering pink shoes.

:39:03. > :39:06.Never seen pink shoes before on a man.

:39:07. > :39:09.And he says, "I greatly admire your work."

:39:10. > :39:12.I said, "God, wish I could say the same!"

:39:13. > :39:30.Raymond Briggs is finally getting down to

:39:31. > :39:35.the project which may be his swansong and mordant masterpiece.

:39:36. > :39:38.You see, that could be nobody else but you.

:39:39. > :39:43.Time For Lights Out - Poems And Drawings Inspired By

:39:44. > :39:51.He's showing the drafts here for the first time.

:39:52. > :39:54.The little girl said that, "Old men's legs look like celery!"

:39:55. > :39:59.Very observant, I think, absolutely brilliant.

:40:00. > :40:03.Briggs always wanted to be a cartoonist,

:40:04. > :40:07.considered the lowest of the low artistically, or so he reckons.

:40:08. > :40:15.Of course they've got these things called graphic novels.

:40:16. > :40:18.They're getting more and respectable.

:40:19. > :40:23.Mine, this is supposed to be a graphic novel.

:40:24. > :40:27.I don't like the term, really, but it makes it sound

:40:28. > :40:34.Not only that, but Briggs has just won a lifetime achievement award

:40:35. > :40:46."Nice cold filthy water, good head of scum on

:40:47. > :40:55.The readers of his children's stories like Fungus The

:40:56. > :40:58.Bogeyman seem to appreciate a certain darkness, a little grot, to

:40:59. > :41:03.I don't think about what children want, you get

:41:04. > :41:12.You don't think, oh, children of ten won't want this.

:41:13. > :41:25.You've just got this idea in your head and you can do it how

:41:26. > :41:28.But is Briggs getting soft in his old age?

:41:29. > :41:31.He says he can't watch his own account of his

:41:32. > :41:33.mum and dad and his early years without weeping.

:41:34. > :41:39.Her in black stockings - and just look at his hair.

:41:40. > :41:40.Well, they're art students, dear, he'll

:41:41. > :41:43.grow out of it when he gets a proper job.

:41:44. > :41:47.He'll never get a proper job with hair like that.

:41:48. > :41:49.And yet, Briggs says, he has no regrets that his

:41:50. > :41:54.When they're tiny, they're absolutely wonderful.

:41:55. > :42:02.My wife, Jean, had schizophrenia, so she couldn't have any.

:42:03. > :42:14.So that was that - childless throughout - lovely!

:42:15. > :42:17.Can you explain the shoe collection that we saw

:42:18. > :42:24.Oh, no, that started, I got those, one or two

:42:25. > :42:29.pairs over the years as joke presents for Liz's daughter.

:42:30. > :42:31.Of course, she didn't want them, of course.

:42:32. > :42:33.So I chucked them in the cupboard or something.

:42:34. > :42:42.People think I'm some outrageous perv who totters around

:42:43. > :42:46.Well, why shouldn't you if you want to?

:42:47. > :43:00.But don't let the Imelda Marcos of mid-Sussex fool you -

:43:01. > :43:02.childish hugs are things he will miss.

:43:03. > :43:07.One day, I know I will walk it for the last time.

:43:08. > :43:13.Last time your little boy climbed on to your shoulders.

:43:14. > :43:16.The last time your little girl wrapped her arms around your neck

:43:17. > :43:24.I know there will be a last time I walk this path

:43:25. > :43:29.before the hospital, before the home, before something.

:43:30. > :43:31.And the irony is, you never know at the time

:43:32. > :43:46.What do you think about older people choosing when they have had enough?

:43:47. > :44:01.Well, it depends, it's very dodgy, isn't it, to make

:44:02. > :44:04.sure they're not mentally ill with depression or something.

:44:05. > :44:09.It's your own life, you can do what the hell you

:44:10. > :44:13.like with it, as far as I can see, no business of anybody else.

:44:14. > :44:36.But before we go, King Salman of Saudi Arabia has been paying

:44:37. > :44:40.It's fair to say he likes to travel in style.

:44:41. > :44:42.A reported 500 tonnes of luggage, 150 chefs, limos,

:44:43. > :44:45.a custom-made toilet and, perhaps most important of all,