:00:00. > :00:08.The Chancellor will set out his plans.
:00:09. > :00:12.But as Mike Tyson famously said, everyone has a plan until they get
:00:13. > :00:17.Phillip Hammond knows Brexit hangs over everything right now.
:00:18. > :00:21.But can he carry on the job of getting borrowing down?
:00:22. > :00:25.I think the public sector is coming to the point
:00:26. > :00:28.where there are going to be large social costs from increasing amounts
:00:29. > :00:34.We'll ask if austerity has gone as far as it can
:00:35. > :00:38.Also tonight, the Netherlands prepares
:00:39. > :00:45.Is an anticipated far right surge also an identity crisis
:00:46. > :00:47.for a supposedly relaxed and liberal country?
:00:48. > :00:58.That is the good thing about the carnival.
:00:59. > :01:00.Right. What about the rest of the time?
:01:01. > :01:11.I heard somebody say something about Obamagate.
:01:12. > :01:15.Looks like it's time for us to investigate!
:01:16. > :01:19.We'll hear from President Trump's more unusual internet
:01:20. > :01:33.Hello. This is Budget week.
:01:34. > :01:35.On Wednesday the Chancellor Phillip Hammond will take
:01:36. > :01:40.to the dispatch box, and set out his plan for taxes,
:01:41. > :01:42.for borrowing, for spending, for improving British productivity,
:01:43. > :01:46.It's a strange one - perhaps the strangest for a while.
:01:47. > :01:49.Brexit offers an excuse for a pause on painful decisions,
:01:50. > :01:52.but at some point, if the Chancellor is to match the aims
:01:53. > :01:55.set out by his party, he'll have to find a way
:01:56. > :01:59.More public spending cuts are already written
:02:00. > :02:02.into the government's projections, just as Article 50 is about to hit
:02:03. > :02:12.Now helping out is the fact that the economic news has been good
:02:13. > :02:15.But unfortunately he can't rely on bags of money
:02:16. > :02:18.falling from the sky, and that means this is not an easy
:02:19. > :02:28.Sometimes you want a safe pair of hands at number 11, a man who does
:02:29. > :02:34.This is probably one of those times and in
:02:35. > :02:38.the last few days, he has been out and about, sensibly managing
:02:39. > :02:43.If your bank increases your credit card limit, I don't think you feel
:02:44. > :02:46.obliged to go out and spend every last penny of it immediately.
:02:47. > :02:53.I regard my job as Chancellor as making sure that our economy is
:02:54. > :02:56.resilient, that we have got reserves in the tank,
:02:57. > :02:59.so that as we embark on
:03:00. > :03:02.the journey that we take over the next couple of years, we are
:03:03. > :03:05.confident that we have got enough gas in the tank to see us through
:03:06. > :03:14.There are two kinds of budget, those that have a specific problem to
:03:15. > :03:19.solve, normally a crisis in the public finances. And there are those
:03:20. > :03:23.where there isn't much to do, chances just have to stand up and
:03:24. > :03:28.look like they've been keeping busy. Well, this one is more in the latter
:03:29. > :03:32.category. Part of the reason for that is that breaks it is looming
:03:33. > :03:37.over everything at the moment. The old slogan used to be, you must fix
:03:38. > :03:42.the roof while the sun is shining. -- Brexit is looming over anything.
:03:43. > :03:45.Today might be, there is no point in fixing the roof if you think a great
:03:46. > :03:51.victory might come toppling down on top of it. You should wait to see
:03:52. > :03:57.what happens. -- a great big three. Until Brexit getting it down was the
:03:58. > :04:01.main goal of getting it down, the deficit, and it slowly came under
:04:02. > :04:06.control. The idea is it carries on going down but the basic job is far
:04:07. > :04:09.from done. It's fair to say that a lot of people, perhaps ourselves
:04:10. > :04:13.included, were sceptical about the scope for the scale of public
:04:14. > :04:16.spending cuts experienced over the last parliament, but those were
:04:17. > :04:20.essentially delivered as promised without everything falling apart. We
:04:21. > :04:25.don't need to panic about the level of public borrowing at the moment,
:04:26. > :04:29.but we do, broadly speaking, need to get it down rather than let it go
:04:30. > :04:34.up. So we can't expect to borrow more as an answer to all our
:04:35. > :04:37.prayers. Yet, when you look at the public sector, it's beginning to
:04:38. > :04:42.scream that it needs more money. So if you are a Chancellor at number
:04:43. > :04:49.11, you look out there, it doesn't look like there are any easy answers
:04:50. > :04:54.to the long-term problems. Finding public spending savings now, after a
:04:55. > :04:58.period of six or seven years of efficiency savings, is a much more
:04:59. > :05:03.challenging job to do without hitting front line services or
:05:04. > :05:06.significantly increasing poverty. Imagine you were Chancellor. Where
:05:07. > :05:14.would you go for further cuts? Defence? Just as Nato is being told
:05:15. > :05:20.to raise spending? Prisons? Amid the current violence and disorder?
:05:21. > :05:23.Police? Just last week the official inspector said they were in a
:05:24. > :05:29.perilous state. In transport, we are meant to be getting Brexit ready by
:05:30. > :05:31.spending more on infrastructure. In business we are trying to launch a
:05:32. > :05:36.new industrial strategy and it's already on the cheap. Health? Good
:05:37. > :05:41.luck with that. Social care? You need to find money and not cut it.
:05:42. > :05:46.You have to go a long way to look for low hanging fruit nowadays. Most
:05:47. > :05:50.of that was plucked in 2011 and 2012. There was probably a lot of
:05:51. > :05:54.low hanging fruit there. If you want to go foraging for some more, the
:05:55. > :06:01.places to look are presumably, and this isn't what I am suggesting you
:06:02. > :06:04.should do, but you could look at overseas aid where spending has
:06:05. > :06:07.risen very fast over the last five or six years, but we have
:06:08. > :06:11.commitments in that direction. Secondly, spending on pensions and
:06:12. > :06:15.pension benefits, all of which have been more than fully protected over
:06:16. > :06:21.the last five or six years in contrast to most areas of spending.
:06:22. > :06:24.Inside the Treasury, they have got a lot on their plate. Getting to the
:06:25. > :06:29.next two years is hard enough, and then the long-term beckons
:06:30. > :06:34.thereafter with some difficult decisions to be taken.
:06:35. > :06:37.Our political editor Nick Watt is here.
:06:38. > :06:42.A little bit of news on education spending is out as we speak. Theresa
:06:43. > :06:47.May and Philip Hammond are saying they want to move on from the era of
:06:48. > :06:52.George Osborne where we had big political announcements surrounding
:06:53. > :06:55.a budget. These are serious and earnest affairs. Tomorrow's
:06:56. > :06:59.front-page headlines on all the papers are a big announcement that
:07:00. > :07:04.will allow Theresa May to say she is pressing ahead for plans for grammar
:07:05. > :07:09.schools. Speculation that was on the back burner. The Chancellor will
:07:10. > :07:14.plough ?320 million into expanding the government's free school
:07:15. > :07:17.programme. The key point is that will create extra spaces and those
:07:18. > :07:22.schools would be able to select on the basis of academic ability. That
:07:23. > :07:25.is obviously the big headline they want to get out tomorrow. The
:07:26. > :07:30.important thing to remember about this budget is that it is the last
:07:31. > :07:36.spring budget. In the Chancellor's mind we will have the first autumn
:07:37. > :07:39.budget later this year. In his mind, that's the big moment where you
:07:40. > :07:44.would make any big tax changes. And you would have a bit of news about
:07:45. > :07:48.Brexit by then. What would you look out for as the things he will be
:07:49. > :07:53.interested in either in this one or autumn? The key thing to remember
:07:54. > :07:57.about autumn is that Brexit negotiations will be underweight for
:07:58. > :08:01.several months by then. The French and German elections will be out of
:08:02. > :08:06.the way. And the belief is the negotiations will be bumpy. They say
:08:07. > :08:10.to Eurosceptics, who say all those Treasury warnings from George
:08:11. > :08:14.Osborne were overstating it, they were based on the assumption Article
:08:15. > :08:19.50 would be triggered immediately. We are about to trigger it, so we
:08:20. > :08:26.will see what happens. In the autumn budget, will when the funding of
:08:27. > :08:30.social care is addressed, the Chancellor is wary of taxing
:08:31. > :08:35.inheritance. No death tax is the cry that is evidently going around the
:08:36. > :08:39.Treasury at the moment. He's more interested in an idea from Baroness
:08:40. > :08:42.Altmann, the former tension as minister, who says it's like an ice
:08:43. > :08:49.for social care. The Chancellor likes that idea, he is responsible
:08:50. > :08:53.to put on working people. The other thing he is alive to his criticism
:08:54. > :08:56.on the Tory backbenches that stamp duty reforms from George Osborne
:08:57. > :09:04.slowing down the housing market and not yielding the revenues talked
:09:05. > :09:08.about. The Chancellor will hear that, but he needs to see more data.
:09:09. > :09:11.If the concerns are true, he will be happy to respond.
:09:12. > :09:13.Labour MP Helen Goodman was a minister in the Department
:09:14. > :09:17.for Work and Pensions and now sits on the Treasury Select Committee -
:09:18. > :09:25.A good evening to you both. Helen, what would you cut at this point? As
:09:26. > :09:31.we have seen, and as your package showed, I think it's extremely
:09:32. > :09:36.difficult to cut public service now. Adult social care in crisis. Three
:09:37. > :09:41.quarters of NHS trusts in deficit. I would be amazed if they would spend
:09:42. > :09:45.money on grammar schools, because across the country individual school
:09:46. > :09:51.budgets are being cut in real and cash terms now. I think that's very
:09:52. > :09:58.surprising as a development. I think it's necessary now to go back to
:09:59. > :10:02.some of George Osborne's tax cuts. It's sensible to help people to save
:10:03. > :10:09.for the long term for their care, but an inheritance tax cut that
:10:10. > :10:13.enables people to leave ?1 million home? That is costing the Chancellor
:10:14. > :10:18.?800 million. Capital gains tax, again reductions made by his
:10:19. > :10:23.predecessor are costing him ?700 million. I would have thought he
:10:24. > :10:29.would look there. You are saying, we have done enough on the spending
:10:30. > :10:32.side, we have to look at taxes next. Chris, do you really believe,
:10:33. > :10:37.because we haven't cut this year very much at all, there has been a
:10:38. > :10:43.pause, can they do it and get the spending down? Putting the figures
:10:44. > :10:49.in context, in 2016 real pounds, total government spending between
:10:50. > :10:53.2010 and 2020 is about the same at ?760 billion per year in real terms.
:10:54. > :10:57.People talk about the austerity of cuts, but in real terms the
:10:58. > :11:02.government budget has stayed the same. In Helen's term, putting up
:11:03. > :11:05.taxes willy-nilly, the way to clear a deficit is creating jobs and
:11:06. > :11:11.growth. You help that by cutting taxes. One of the reasons
:11:12. > :11:15.corporation tax receipts has gone up is because we have cut corporation
:11:16. > :11:20.tax down from 28 to 20 and shortly 17%. That encourages businesses to
:11:21. > :11:23.create jobs. It's not about government hand-outs or tax and
:11:24. > :11:27.spending, it's about encouraging the economy to grow, which is what we
:11:28. > :11:31.have done. Would you agree there is enormous pressure in many public
:11:32. > :11:37.services at the moment? You see the headlines and you don't dismiss
:11:38. > :11:43.that? Of course not. Social care is an obvious example. There is the
:11:44. > :11:48.better care fund. ?3.5 billion more. Your government didn't manage to
:11:49. > :11:52.make cuts this year, but the next three years it's intending that real
:11:53. > :11:56.spending in departments, not welfare, but departments like health
:11:57. > :12:02.and Home Office and so on, real spending cuts of 2% per head of
:12:03. > :12:06.population per year. The fact is, the population of our country is
:12:07. > :12:10.growing quite fast and that has put pressure on public spending, as the
:12:11. > :12:19.public has told us. The population is growing at about 0.4% per year.
:12:20. > :12:23.You believe that after six years of austerity, 2% cuts per head in real
:12:24. > :12:29.terms spending is possible? Population is growing at 0.4% per
:12:30. > :12:35.year. If you are freezing it, I think we can reduce public spending
:12:36. > :12:39.per head after inflation by 0.4% per year and maintain services. Your
:12:40. > :12:44.chart a few months ago showed how the government has progressively
:12:45. > :12:48.reduced the Labour deficit from 2010 all the way down. The plan is to
:12:49. > :12:53.continue that trajectory for the next few years until the deficit
:12:54. > :12:58.hits zero. There is nothing responsible about raising more money
:12:59. > :13:01.and sending the bill to our children. That's not what I
:13:02. > :13:05.suggested. You need to take into account we have an ageing
:13:06. > :13:10.population. The population is not what we had ten years ago. We have
:13:11. > :13:15.more old people, they are older and more frail, so we have more NHS
:13:16. > :13:20.needs. There are more adult social care needs. I think it's very hard
:13:21. > :13:26.in a situation where we have food banks flourishing around the
:13:27. > :13:33.country, to say, people must be allowed to inherit without any tax
:13:34. > :13:37.at all, ?1 million inheritance. The inheritance tax will not be enough
:13:38. > :13:42.to put money into the health service and pay for social care and get the
:13:43. > :13:46.prisons and police and defence to levels people want. You have to do
:13:47. > :13:51.have some proper tax increases on the average person as well as just
:13:52. > :13:56.picking off a few... Not necessarily. As Chris says, for
:13:57. > :14:00.example, we have already had ?6 billion of cuts in corporation tax
:14:01. > :14:05.with another one in the spring. It raises more money. Maybe we could
:14:06. > :14:12.leave corporation tax rate at 19% and not go to 17. Chris, what would
:14:13. > :14:15.you actually cut? Give us a suggestion of something that would
:14:16. > :14:21.save ?2 billion, which is the figure we sort of talking about. The
:14:22. > :14:24.government is controlling spending in all areas. The biggest line
:14:25. > :14:31.height is the welfare budget, and we have to get people off welfare and
:14:32. > :14:34.into work. We have been successful. We have record employment, wages are
:14:35. > :14:38.rising and we have record female employment as well. That's
:14:39. > :14:40.ultimately the way you reduce public spending. We will have more of this
:14:41. > :14:45.discussion on Wednesday, I'm sure. Now one of the more intriguing
:14:46. > :14:47.suggestions that has been trailed as a budget possibility
:14:48. > :14:49.is an increase in National Insurance It kind of makes sense at one level
:14:50. > :14:54.as the self-employed people do pay less National Insurance,
:14:55. > :14:56.and the government thus loses revenue when people switch
:14:57. > :14:58.from employment to self-employment, which has been happening
:14:59. > :14:59.more and more. But does it make sense
:15:00. > :15:02.to Kevin Green, the Chief Executive of the Recruitment
:15:03. > :15:04.Employment Confederation - the professional body
:15:05. > :15:05.for the recruitment industry Their members place self-employed
:15:06. > :15:21.contractors into jobs. Good evening. Just explain to
:15:22. > :15:25.everyone, what is the difference between employment and
:15:26. > :15:29.self-employment. In relation to National Insurance, if you're
:15:30. > :15:34.self-employed, you pay 9% and if you are employed, you pay 12%. That is
:15:35. > :15:42.what the Chancellor might go after. The much bigger gap, is that my
:15:43. > :15:47.employer is paying 13%. You do not have an employer if you're self
:15:48. > :15:50.employed. If you look at some of the business models like Cooper, they
:15:51. > :15:55.will not be paying National Insurance contributions for the
:15:56. > :15:57.people who work for them are self-employed and that is a
:15:58. > :16:04.significantly bigger number. It is about 16% gap. Would it make sense
:16:05. > :16:08.to do something in this budget to deal with that? The way it has been
:16:09. > :16:12.positioned it looks like he will go after the worker rather than the
:16:13. > :16:16.business and I think some of that is because it is much more complex when
:16:17. > :16:22.you get into the business. We have a number of NEETs that we are waiting
:16:23. > :16:27.for decisions on like Uber... They do not seem to have done anything
:16:28. > :16:30.wrong. There is a definition about whether they are workers...
:16:31. > :16:37.Employment tribunal 's have said that they are self-employed. No,
:16:38. > :16:41.they said they were workers. We have got a fundamental problem between
:16:42. > :16:44.employment regulation and taxation policy. Employment regulation you
:16:45. > :16:50.have three definitions, self-employed, employed and worker
:16:51. > :16:56.and taxation is self-employed or employee. Fundamentally, is there a
:16:57. > :17:03.good case for charging self-employed people, basically 15 or 16% less tax
:17:04. > :17:08.overall on the value of their Labour at the Newchurch employed people?
:17:09. > :17:15.Clearly in relation to self-employed there is pension contributions,
:17:16. > :17:18.holiday pay... The key is how do we, but the system which recognises some
:17:19. > :17:22.of the risk about being self-employed, gives them some kind
:17:23. > :17:28.of tax advantage but creates clarity and at the moment we have huge grey
:17:29. > :17:30.areas in relation to tax for employers, employees cover the whole
:17:31. > :17:34.thing is a mess and what we are looking for is the government to
:17:35. > :17:39.come up with a systemic way of coming up with a fair taxation
:17:40. > :17:42.policy for businesses and for employees, which actually aligns
:17:43. > :17:48.these things so that we get the right tax for people. You're not
:17:49. > :17:53.against aligning them will stop at some point over time. If you are
:17:54. > :18:00.this government, you're not going to put 3p or 3% National Insurance on
:18:01. > :18:03.the poorest least secure workers who are driving a cab for Uber or
:18:04. > :18:08.working for Deliveroo, you will not say you will be paying more tax.
:18:09. > :18:13.They are the ones they're trying to help! The Chancellor is clearly
:18:14. > :18:18.looking for ways to raise tax. The issue at the moment is is this fair
:18:19. > :18:23.or transparent? If you're employed, should you be paying more tax than
:18:24. > :18:27.someone who is not employed? You are right, if the government is looking
:18:28. > :18:30.at the tax from self-employment, it should go after the businesses and
:18:31. > :18:35.really look that their model as well is looking at the workers because
:18:36. > :18:38.the workers take more risk, they need to have some kind of incentive
:18:39. > :18:42.to continue and we do not want to undermine our Labour market which
:18:43. > :18:44.has been hugely successful. Kevin Green, thank you very much.
:18:45. > :18:46.President Trump news now, and he has formulated
:18:47. > :18:48.a new executive order to replace his old travel ban.
:18:49. > :18:50.Remember, that was struck down in the courts.
:18:51. > :18:53.This one takes effect in ten days time.
:18:54. > :18:56.The executive order signed by the President earlier today,
:18:57. > :18:57.protecting the nation from foreign terrorist entry into
:18:58. > :19:00.the United States is a vital measure for strengthening
:19:01. > :19:09.It is the President's solemn duty to protect the American people.
:19:10. > :19:11.And with this order, President Trump is exercising his rightful authority
:19:12. > :19:20.Professor Stephen Legomsky was President Obama's Chief Counsel
:19:21. > :19:30.for US Citizenship Immigration from 2011 to 2013.
:19:31. > :19:38.evening to you. Do you think this new executive order will get through
:19:39. > :19:42.the courts? Very difficult to say. There are two kinds of provision in
:19:43. > :19:45.this executive order and some of them deal specifically with refugees
:19:46. > :19:52.and others deal with immigrants generally. On the refugee site, the
:19:53. > :19:57.two main changes are eliminating the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees,
:19:58. > :20:00.all of whom are still subject to the 120 day moratorium and all refugees
:20:01. > :20:05.and the other thing they did was to eliminate what had been an exception
:20:06. > :20:08.for people who are persecuted because of their religion but only
:20:09. > :20:14.if their religion was a minority religion. This was widely derided,
:20:15. > :20:18.as a back door attempt to save Christians over Muslims and my guess
:20:19. > :20:23.is that the courts will not be fooled by it. The religious
:20:24. > :20:26.discrimination claim is still there and the evidence and pre-tax will
:20:27. > :20:31.still be a stroll. Why do you say that? Now, it is a country
:20:32. > :20:35.discrimination, it is not a religious discrimination. He surely
:20:36. > :20:38.is entitled to say no immigrants but this country or that country,
:20:39. > :20:43.legally? Absolutely and we do that all the time. What makes this
:20:44. > :20:48.different is that the plaintiffs are arguing that even though the
:20:49. > :20:53.document is neutral on its face, it is motivated by a different pre-tax
:20:54. > :20:57.and to back up that claim they cite multiple statements from President
:20:58. > :21:03.Trump about his intention to institute a Muslim ban, there is a
:21:04. > :21:06.statement by his closest adviser, a former New York City Mayor, Rudy
:21:07. > :21:11.Giuliani to the effect that the troubled campaign reached out to him
:21:12. > :21:16.to find a way to package the Muslim ban and then there are also the
:21:17. > :21:19.comments indicating a desire to protect persecuted Christians. The
:21:20. > :21:24.job for the plaintiffs will be to convince the court that although the
:21:25. > :21:28.order has changed, it is nonetheless religious discrimination and since
:21:29. > :21:31.those statements were made in the past, they really cannot be taken
:21:32. > :21:35.back. The question will be whether the courts by the argument or not.
:21:36. > :21:39.The courts surely look through his words, they do not listen to what he
:21:40. > :21:43.said, they look at whether it is a bad weather he said it was and they
:21:44. > :21:48.will look at this and say it is pretty different to the previous
:21:49. > :21:52.one. The differences are fairly cosmetic foot, it is true that the
:21:53. > :21:55.Syrians have been eliminated as a separate group and it is true that
:21:56. > :21:59.they have eliminated the religious minority exception but on the
:22:00. > :22:04.refugee site, everything stays the same and on the general side there
:22:05. > :22:08.is still a 90 day ban on entries from nationals from six countries,
:22:09. > :22:14.Iraq is off the list and the questionnaire again is whether this
:22:15. > :22:18.is motivated by religious pretext or whether it is a genuine national
:22:19. > :22:23.security measure. The process this time, it has been a few weeks
:22:24. > :22:27.coming, this executive order and it has a ten day lead time, are you
:22:28. > :22:32.impressed that they got the process side of this more in order than they
:22:33. > :22:36.did last time? They have clearly made improvements, the 10-day
:22:37. > :22:41.lead-in is important and in addition, they have exempted very
:22:42. > :22:45.important categories, for example people who have lawful permanent
:22:46. > :22:49.residents starters in the UK -- US are exempted as are those who hold
:22:50. > :22:53.valid current visas and that will go a long way toward strengthening the
:22:54. > :22:56.government case on the question of whether or not due process or what
:22:57. > :23:03.would be called natural justice in the UK has been observed but I do
:23:04. > :23:04.not know whether that gets them past the religious discrimination
:23:05. > :23:06.argument. Thank you for talking to us.
:23:07. > :23:09.We've been talking a lot about France and its impending
:23:10. > :23:11.But there are Parliamentary elections in the
:23:12. > :23:15.In the country often described as the most liberal in Europe.
:23:16. > :23:18.They used to joke, "do you know what's illegal in the Netherlands?
:23:19. > :23:22.Polls suggest many people will vote for Geert Wilders,
:23:23. > :23:25.a right-wing populist who wants to pull the country out
:23:26. > :23:27.of the EU and ban immigration from Muslim countries.
:23:28. > :23:29.He might even win the largest number of seats.
:23:30. > :23:33.So what happened to the supposedly tolerant, easy-going Dutch?
:23:34. > :23:35.We've heard from the populists on this programme,
:23:36. > :23:37.but Newsnight's Gabriel Gatehouse grew up in Amsterdam,
:23:38. > :23:40.and he's been back to try to find out what liberals there make
:23:41. > :24:14.The Netherlands is having an identity crisis.
:24:15. > :24:25.I don't remember people agonising over this question in the past.
:24:26. > :24:38.We are all the same, and we're very tolerant.
:24:39. > :24:43.And we drink and eat and play and dance together.
:24:44. > :24:45.That's the good thing about Carnival.
:24:46. > :25:00.Some people are not so the same as other people.
:25:01. > :25:03.I think the whole Islamic thing means that we are more
:25:04. > :25:09.Geert Wilders, the Netherlands' answer to Donald Trump,
:25:10. > :25:19.wants to ban the Koran, close the mosques, and the borders.
:25:20. > :25:22.In defence of their tolerant way of life, many Dutch people
:25:23. > :25:30.are apparently willing to vote for some pretty intolerant policy.
:25:31. > :25:34.When I was growing up here in the 1980s, the Netherlands,
:25:35. > :25:38.and Amsterdam in particular, felt like this sort of inclusive
:25:39. > :25:41.space, a place that was open and tolerant, where anything goes,
:25:42. > :25:46.and anyone, really, can come and be themselves.
:25:47. > :25:48.It doesn't really feel like that any more.
:25:49. > :25:54.So I've come back here to try and find out what's happened
:25:55. > :26:08.to that peculiarly Dutch brand of liberalism.
:26:09. > :26:10.This feels like a country on a difficult journey
:26:11. > :26:18.A country that has suffered a sudden loss of faith
:26:19. > :26:23.in a set of truths it once held be self-evident.
:26:24. > :26:26.On the outskirts of the city, an abandoned shipyard has been
:26:27. > :26:34.ADM, as it's known, is a community of artists and performers, the sort
:26:35. > :26:40.of people for whom Amsterdam was once a haven.
:26:41. > :26:43.It used to be a town with a lot of empty spaces.
:26:44. > :26:45.It was a paradise for people who want to make things
:26:46. > :26:53.It was really a part of, a sort of Utopia.
:26:54. > :26:56.# When I'm hungry, I eat out of the dumpster.
:26:57. > :26:59.# When I'm thirsty, is that your beer?
:27:00. > :27:03.# When I'm tired, I find an empty house to sleep in.
:27:04. > :27:07.# And if you don't like it, lock you!
:27:08. > :27:09.But the welfare state that nourished that Utopia
:27:10. > :27:16.These days, there's less space for squatters,
:27:17. > :27:22.Under pressure perhaps, the collective now has
:27:23. > :27:26.a surprisingly strict membership policy.
:27:27. > :27:29.Everyone is allowed in, but we should be able to send them
:27:30. > :27:32.out if it's not working, and close the gate behind.
:27:33. > :27:35.If that sounds like something Geert Wilders might like, well,
:27:36. > :27:38.he's not popular here, but perhaps the fate of the squat
:27:39. > :27:44.in some ways mirrors that of the country.
:27:45. > :27:46.The group is small enough to control ourselves,
:27:47. > :27:53.and now we begin this fantastic, nonconformist little town.
:27:54. > :28:06.Squatters were once a defining force in radical Dutch politics.
:28:07. > :28:08.The squatter riots of the 1980s are a vivid and sometimes
:28:09. > :28:15.In an apparent attempt to defuse the situation,
:28:16. > :28:21.a policeman dressed as Santa Claus was lifted off the roof by crane.
:28:22. > :28:23.Against the backdrop of Reaganomics and Thatcherism, the movement
:28:24. > :28:34.These were battles over the concept of public versus private space.
:28:35. > :28:36.As the squatters fought the riot police on the streets,
:28:37. > :28:39.an architect specialising in school design was having a similar fight
:28:40. > :28:54.I was in the first class of pupils to go to school here.
:28:55. > :28:56.The architect, Herman Hertzberger, believed that buildings had
:28:57. > :29:04.His aim was to foster a more egalitarian relationship
:29:05. > :29:12.And I always had the enormous fight for every square metre, you know?
:29:13. > :29:14.And this is not necessary, because the classrooms,
:29:15. > :29:22.The teacher is saying, this is the way the world works,
:29:23. > :29:32.But I said classrooms is one, but there's also the idea
:29:33. > :29:34.of doing things together, seeing what the others are doing.
:29:35. > :29:48.And so we must try to get space also for this communal thing.
:29:49. > :29:57.The architecture of the Netherlands tells us
:29:58. > :30:04.Walk along the canals in Amsterdam, you see not one or three
:30:05. > :30:12.You see thousands of small palaces, of citizens.
:30:13. > :30:18.At the heart of Dutch liberalism lies a fundamental tension,
:30:19. > :30:21.between the sometimes competing notions of liberty and equality.
:30:22. > :30:25.Of individualism versus the common good.
:30:26. > :30:31.They are not individual portraits of a king or a count or something.
:30:32. > :30:35.These are portraits of very proud citizens.
:30:36. > :30:39.We drink together, fight together, without a king, without a leader.
:30:40. > :30:47.When we talk about being liberal, it was also economically liberal.
:30:48. > :30:51.Yes, that's deep in the genes of the Dutch.
:30:52. > :30:54.Descartes, who lived for quite a long time in Amsterdam
:30:55. > :30:59.at the beginning of the 17th century, said already,
:31:00. > :31:04.everybody is only occupied here with earning money, nothing else.
:31:05. > :31:06.Money, money, that's the big go-to here.
:31:07. > :31:09.The Bergers of the Golden Age turned the Netherlands into the biggest
:31:10. > :31:17.This new prosperity was driven by immigrants -
:31:18. > :31:23.Protestants and Jews fleeing persecution in Catholic Europe.
:31:24. > :31:26.Because we are a society full of minorities and groups,
:31:27. > :31:30.That creates a society which has to be tolerant,
:31:31. > :31:44.Growing up, we were taught that tolerance was as much a part
:31:45. > :31:46.of Dutch culture as eating mayonnaise with your chips.
:31:47. > :31:48.And that had less to do with the 17th century
:31:49. > :31:53.I used to live in one of those buildings over there, number ten,
:31:54. > :31:58.Before I lived there some other people did, whose
:31:59. > :32:01.names are commemorated here in these plaques.
:32:02. > :32:05.Seven of them, who were murdered by the Nazis
:32:06. > :32:08.during the Second World War because they were Jewish.
:32:09. > :32:12.There were similar plaques all along the canalside here,
:32:13. > :32:15.and during the War one tenth of the population of this city were
:32:16. > :32:21.The German occupation had a huge impact on how
:32:22. > :32:27.Discriminating against people because of their religion,
:32:28. > :32:29.their cultural or ethnic background, that was something that other
:32:30. > :32:38.I grew up in a time when all of us in this country were still very much
:32:39. > :32:40.under the impression that we lived in the most liberal,
:32:41. > :32:48.I used to actually, literally say this to people -
:32:49. > :32:51.that I'm from Amsterdam, so I live in the best
:32:52. > :32:53.country in the world, the best city in the world,
:32:54. > :32:56.and anything goes, and you are free to be whoever you are.
:32:57. > :32:58.However, now when I look back I think, oh no,
:32:59. > :33:01.there was definitely a lot going on under the surface that
:33:02. > :33:06.Beneath the surface, many people felt uncomfortable
:33:07. > :33:18.Fuelled by Geert Wilders, the debate has focused on Islam.
:33:19. > :33:21.A lot of people think that Islamophobia,
:33:22. > :33:26.or anti-Semitism and racism, they are all different things.
:33:27. > :33:32.Sylvana Simons has set up a political party trying
:33:33. > :33:35.to highlight what she says is a hidden current
:33:36. > :33:43.Death threats is what I have received just for simply
:33:44. > :33:49.That doesn't sound like the most tolerant,
:33:50. > :33:52.the most progressive country on earth.
:33:53. > :33:55.We used to take pride in saying we are so tolerant.
:33:56. > :33:59.We've been tolerant, we have been tolerating.
:34:00. > :34:02.And tolerating means accepting something that you really don't
:34:03. > :34:04.actually agree with, but you are just,
:34:05. > :34:12.Here's one thing that has definitely changed since I was at school.
:34:13. > :34:15.People seem to have stopped believing that the future will be
:34:16. > :34:24.I am from a generation that was just thinking everything
:34:25. > :34:30.is going to be better, more, and that stopped now.
:34:31. > :34:35.And we feel that our next generation will have more difficulties
:34:36. > :34:44.It's still optimistic, but it's not an optimism of,
:34:45. > :34:52.It's now an optimism of, when we do our best,
:34:53. > :35:04.So, conservatism and hard work has won out over progressive
:35:05. > :35:13.This really is a different country to the one I remember.
:35:14. > :35:20.At the squatters' camp, it feels like the party is almost over.
:35:21. > :35:26.Don't be surprised if a crack in the ice appears under your feet.
:35:27. > :35:35.Because you are hippie and tolerant and everything is possible.
:35:36. > :35:39.Even in ADM, we had a problem, and I was one of the people
:35:40. > :35:41.always defending everyone, until I found out it's not
:35:42. > :35:47.A hippie community can burst because everybody has taken too much
:35:48. > :35:51.drugs or everybody has went to sleep with everybody, and
:35:52. > :36:03.Perhaps the idea of the Netherlands as free space was never anything
:36:04. > :36:09.Now, in an age of identity politics, the Dutch are asking themselves some
:36:10. > :36:20.And does the Netherlands still want to be a place
:36:21. > :36:37.We are discussing the same topic day after day in many different
:36:38. > :36:40.manifestations. For opponents of President Trump,
:36:41. > :36:42.particularly those without much imagination, it is hard
:36:43. > :36:44.to understand how anyone "What are they thinking?", is
:36:45. > :36:47.a sentiment quite widely expressed. The idea that a person of colour
:36:48. > :36:50.might support him would seem Well, two black women -
:36:51. > :36:57.siblings and keen supporters of President Trump - have made a big
:36:58. > :36:59.impact on social media. They've even appeared
:37:00. > :37:01.at his rallies, as the They are Lynnette Hardaway
:37:02. > :37:06.and Rochelle Richardson, former Democrats who style
:37:07. > :37:07.themselves Diamond and Diamond on the left,
:37:08. > :37:13.Silk on the right, and asked them why they thought that
:37:14. > :37:16.African Americans didn't, African Americans did go out
:37:17. > :37:25.and they did march to those voting polls and they voted
:37:26. > :37:27.for President Donald J Trump. The problem that we
:37:28. > :37:32.have is the left. The Democrats, the Liberals,
:37:33. > :37:37.that keep pushing an agenda They love that people burn
:37:38. > :37:45.down their communities. President Trump wants to build
:37:46. > :37:47.back these communities. President Trump wants
:37:48. > :37:52.to stop the violence. He is going to be a President,
:37:53. > :37:55.a good President not just for black You will know, he just lied
:37:56. > :38:23.about how many people were at the inauguration,
:38:24. > :38:25.everyone can see that it Let me go ahead and stop
:38:26. > :38:30.you and we will get you straight. We were there, there were thousands
:38:31. > :38:34.upon thousands upon thousands We were there, we saw
:38:35. > :38:38.it with our own eyes. Honestly, Diamond, I think
:38:39. > :38:41.it was easier to see it from the camera positions
:38:42. > :38:43.and you really could see, there were more people there under
:38:44. > :38:46.Obama than there were under Trump. OK, so, OK, why are you debating
:38:47. > :38:48.me with this question I suppose I'm just interested
:38:49. > :38:52.in what you think, He sometimes on occasion just
:38:53. > :38:58.says stuff that is just Excuse me, my President,
:38:59. > :39:02.wait a minute, my President never That's what's wrong
:39:03. > :39:05.with you left people. You always want to be
:39:06. > :39:07.so politically correct, well he is not politically correct,
:39:08. > :39:10.he is honest and we love Many people are saying he has had
:39:11. > :39:14.a slightly rocky start, he lost Michael Flynn,
:39:15. > :39:16.obviously Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General,
:39:17. > :39:18.has had to recuse himself Lots of questions over
:39:19. > :39:24.the original travel ban, do you think it has been a bit
:39:25. > :39:28.messy, who do you blame for that? Do you blame Donald Trump
:39:29. > :39:30.for that or who you blame? I blame the media for taking
:39:31. > :39:33.and conjuring up a story about the Russians and insulting
:39:34. > :39:37.the American people, the millions that got out
:39:38. > :39:40.and voted for our President, President Donald Trump,
:39:41. > :39:42.it was not the Russians that hacked the elections,
:39:43. > :39:44.the American people hacked it, we went to the polls
:39:45. > :39:47.and we voted for him. Is there anything this guy could do
:39:48. > :39:50.where you would not say You wouldn't get in a car
:39:51. > :39:55.and let him drive you over Is there anything this bloke
:39:56. > :39:59.can do that is wrong? You think it's wrong
:40:00. > :40:07.because it's not your way. He is trying to secure the border
:40:08. > :40:13.to keep people safe. He is trying to keep people
:40:14. > :40:15.from coming into our country wanting The people that come from these
:40:16. > :40:19.certain countries that do not like Americans,
:40:20. > :40:23.he is trying to create the atmosphere where people
:40:24. > :40:25.are thriving again, where the inner and urban cities are
:40:26. > :40:27.being built again. So we, the American people we love
:40:28. > :40:33.it, so there is nothing my President The thing is, everybody makes
:40:34. > :40:43.mistakes, it would be very odd if Donald Trump did not make some
:40:44. > :40:47.mistakes and I am just wondering if you can think of anything,
:40:48. > :40:50.can you think of anything he has If you can't, it probably tells us
:40:51. > :40:55.that you are, you know, you're just big fans and you're
:40:56. > :41:01.on his side, come what may. Well you know what, the only mistake
:41:02. > :41:04.that I can think of is the mistake of not continuously every single
:41:05. > :41:08.day, all day, keeping He needs to do it on a regular
:41:09. > :41:13.basis, every day. Tweet it out all day every
:41:14. > :41:16.day about the fake news We are very loyal to our President,
:41:17. > :41:22.we trust his decision, we trust that he will make the right
:41:23. > :41:25.decision and the way that it will affect American people,
:41:26. > :41:28.we trust that he wants to do things that are going to benefit
:41:29. > :41:31.us and not hurt us. We trust his judgment,
:41:32. > :41:34.that's why we voted for him Can I ask, do you two ever disagree
:41:35. > :41:40.yourselves between the two of you or do you always
:41:41. > :41:43.agree on everything? We agree to disagree
:41:44. > :41:46.when we have a disagreement. Diamond, Silk, thank
:41:47. > :41:50.you so very much. We've run out of time
:41:51. > :42:06.for anything except this, news of the official confirmation
:42:07. > :42:09.from Guinness that German Engineer Albert Beer and his Robot,
:42:10. > :42:12.named Sub 1, are now the world As a political side note,
:42:13. > :42:16.they beat Ed Miliband's 90